Byzantine Pythium - hype/brainstorming thread

[Squirrelloid]

If you want to see battle vestals used, they have to not be cap only. They're too weak as a unit to make blessing them worthwhile when you can only hire from one fort each turn. Like flagellants, this is a sacred that would need to be used in truly massive numbers to make a blessing sensible. I, for one, will gladly use whatever the principes equivalent is instead of BVs to save the pretender design points with the way things are now.

Basically, its not that hydrae kept BVs from being used, its that they're a cheap disposable sacred which isn't capable of being hired in numbers suitable for 'cheap and disposable' to be an advantage.

[rdonj]

You wouldn't even go with a blessing aimed at angels or theurgs and use them as a side unit if the blessing happens to be useful? They're cheap and not very resource-intensive, so it's not too hard to justify buying them.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by rdonj

You wouldn't even go with a blessing aimed at angels or theurgs and use them as a side unit if the blessing happens to be useful? They're cheap and not very resource-intensive, so it's not too hard to justify buying them.

yeah, but we're looking at an E4+N4+ blessing, which isn't useful for BVs at all.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

I dunno, that'll make Pythium's mages quite weak for MA. S2X2H2 as recruit anywhere is decent, but then there's no capital-only mage for heavier mage power, and that's a pretty weak mage as your top tier mage.

Well, I sort of managed to leave out one very important note. There will be a new angel summon for Pythium only, that will summon up named Archangles with more diverse paths (Raphael "Healing of God" with S/N, Gabriel with high S, Uriel with intense fire and so forth). Sort of like "Summon Spenta" for Caelum, except perfactly castable by nationals.

I was also thinking of "twidling" with the angel summons. It's pretty stupid that they all use astral pearls. This particularly quarantiees that they players are only going to use the strongest one. This will affect Marignon too, but IIRC they could use the small boost that this will provide. Harbringer could easily be a A/S summon and Angelic Host be an F/S summon. (Also, it would make sense for Marignon to be better at summoning Fiery smiting archangels than the more "artistic" harbringers, since they have that "heavenly wrath/ inquisition" thing going on)

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

And of course, moving arch-theurges to being multiheroes means you're dependent on Lk scales, may or may not get any year 1, 2, or even 3 or later, and need to hope you only get arch-theurges. And of course, old age is even more annoying because if you *do* lose one to disease you can't replace him.

Well, the new pythium won't be so desperate for arch-theurgs as the old one (besides, toning down the power is one of the design principles). There won't be any need to desperately make them happen. The only problem I could see with them having old age is if you get S3 F3 with highly reduced lifespan and very heavy old age, but I could just make them not old (they are healthy with the aid of the holy spirit or something).

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

If you want to see battle vestals used, they have to not be cap only. They're too weak as a unit to make blessing them worthwhile when you can only hire from one fort each turn. Like flagellants, this is a sacred that would need to be used in truly massive numbers to make a blessing sensible. I, for one, will gladly use whatever the principes equivalent is instead of BVs to save the pretender design points with the way things are now.

Basically, its not that hydrae kept BVs from being used, its that they're a cheap disposable sacred which isn't capable of being hired in numbers suitable for 'cheap and disposable' to be an advantage.

Hmm. True. I'll probably make them non-cap, since I already have two units that will be cap-only. Three would be just stupid.

[BigDaddy]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

Hmm. True. I'll probably make them non-cap, since I already have two units that will be cap-only. Three would be just stupid.

What? Pft... lol...

I agree, but your reasoning (apparent) is humorous.

[Squirrelloid]

Re: proposed mage changes

I dunno, that'll make Pythium's mages quite weak for MA. S2X2H2 as recruit anywhere is decent, but then there's no capital-only mage for heavier mage power, and that's a pretty weak mage as your top tier mage.

And of course, moving arch-theurges to being multiheroes means you're dependent on Lk scales, may or may not get any year 1, 2, or even 3 or later, and need to hope you only get arch-theurges. And of course, old age is even more annoying because if you *do* lose one to disease you can't replace him.

[Swan]

i've not read the 4 pages of this topic, but what about adding some ship summons in construction?
aquatic unit, high upkeep, gluttony(you have to feed the sailors), fire vulnerability.
they can have some diversification, like a heavy one for battles, a "commerce" one which brings you money and/or supply.

[elmokki]

As the battles in Dominions are fought over land or under water I personally would find any sort of sailing ships mostly hillarious.

That actually just gave me a new nation idea though. Drowned sailors being reanimated by ancient evil. The actual drowned ones would be amphibians, but there'd also be a potential for huge masses of poor amphibian standard undead with more scimitars "newly drowned". A sunken magically moving ship would be cool as hell, but I don't really know if you can make it big enough and if I can actually draw a decent looking sprite for one.

For land castles they'd have "shoredrowned" poor amphibians to recruit too. Some of them might be better armored, ie knights and heavy infantry who have fallen to rivers in the middle of battles etc.

[Belac]

One other thing about Pythium that amuses and slightly bugs me is that LA Pythium's mythical sources are earlier in history than MA Pythium. All the mystery cults are more reminiscent of the Eastern Roman Empire circa AD 1, while the powerful Theurgocracy is reminiscent of the Byzantines.

[Burnsaber]

I'm working on the mod. Just yesterday I made the graphics for 6 units (no preview though, I'm going to get all of them done before I show them off). Now I only need graphics for Theurg Artisans, Divine Emperor and the seven Archangels (Michael is going to be tough thought, his graphic will take a while since he needs armor and no dom3 angels have that, so I need to draw it myself).

@Squirrel

Sorry, it really took me a while to get at what you were going after. Yeah, S2F2A2W2E1 is not that great magic access for forging and so forth, especially because you don't get any air/fire boosters and no access to Crystal Coin. I think I'm going solve this by changing their starting commander to "Divine Emperor" with S4H3 that can get you RoS and RoW with only Crystal Cap, so that you don't need to force S and E on your pretender.

Originally Posted by elmokki

As the battles in Dominions are fought over land or under water I personally would find any sort of sailing ships mostly hillarious.

Agree. Ships would just be so out of place and dom3 is no place for them.

Originally Posted by Belac

One other thing about Pythium that amuses and slightly bugs me is that LA Pythium's mythical sources are earlier in history than MA Pythium. All the mystery cults are more reminiscent of the Eastern Roman Empire circa AD 1, while the powerful Theurgocracy is reminiscent of the Byzantines.

Yeah, I noticed that too, but it really doesn't bother me. I think of it as an "alternate" explanation on why Byzantine crumbled. Instead of gradual decline of military power, there was gradual decline in faith for them in the Dom3verse. (not that my Pythium will make any sense to in the context of the vanilla LA pythium, but whatever).