Mod: Conceptual Balance Mod 1.6

[13lackGu4rd]

seems like a lot of players are complaining about the OPness of Ashdod and to a lesser extent Hinnom and Gath. perhaps the next CBM update(whenever that will be) could address some of the issues which make the Hinnom line nations so OP in MP?

[kianduatha]

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

seems like a lot of players are complaining about the OPness of Ashdod and to a lesser extent Hinnom and Gath. perhaps the next CBM update(whenever that will be) could address some of the issues which make the Hinnom line nations so OP in MP?

To a fairly great degree, those issues have been addressed--fairly massive price increases for their recruitable thug chassis(most notably so you can't purchase an Adon 1st turn) takes away some of their early momentum. Also the inclusion of the Hero's Blade gives an excellent counter to low numbers of elite giants.

How many MP games have even been played with Ashdod since 1.6 came out?

[Snowcat]

I have now completed reading the over 50 pages in this topic
an I really think somebody should make a new topic with the
title PROPOSITIONS FOR CBM 1.7 - the propositions should
be voted for, polled, and neatly listed up so somebody could
actually put all these ideas into practise rather than just
thinking and talking about it.

So this is my sincere and optimistic invitation for anybody
reading this to do this. Go forth, fellow Pretenders and may
your sharp minds strike true!

[anonymity]

Originally Posted by Snowcat

I have now completed reading the over 50 pages in this topic
an I really think somebody should make a new topic with the
title PROPOSITIONS FOR CBM 1.7 - the propositions should
be voted for, polled, and neatly listed up so somebody could
actually put all these ideas into practise rather than just
thinking and talking about it.

So this is my sincere and optimistic invitation for anybody
reading this to do this. Go forth, fellow Pretenders and may
your sharp minds strike true!

While there's something to be said for forging ahead with 1.7, I'd hesitate to ever put balance changes up for a vote. People complain about a lot of things and think certain changes might be cool, but it's up to the mod creator to keep the mod focused on its objectives. CBM was never meant to be much of a nation balance mod, and look here we are discussing nation balance changes for the majority of the last 50 pages.

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

and this is precisely the problem, in too many MA and even single age games Ashdod is just banned, almost as much as LA Ermor/R'lyeh...

Just because they're not being played doesn't mean they should be nerfed further. The current balance changes need to be tested before determining if they're insufficient. Besides, there's nothing overpowered about Hinnom and Gath, especially compared to their eras and to the other giant nations. Gath might even be considered weak.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by anonymity

CBM was never meant to be much of a nation balance mod, and look here we are discussing nation balance changes for the majority of the last 50 pages.

I think that, as of CBM 1.6, this is pretty patently false. Most of its changes make no sense outside of a general game balance perspective. The Ashdod nerfs already mentioned, for example, are very clearly about balancing Ashdod vs. other nations.

So regardless of what it started as in its infancy, its very clearly about nation balance now.

[13lackGu4rd]

Originally Posted by kianduatha

To a fairly great degree, those issues have been addressed--fairly massive price increases for their recruitable thug chassis(most notably so you can't purchase an Adon 1st turn) takes away some of their early momentum. Also the inclusion of the Hero's Blade gives an excellent counter to low numbers of elite giants.

those counters you mentioned seem rather irrelevant Imho as they clearly don't address the issues fully.

How many MP games have even been played with Ashdod since 1.6 came out?

and this is precisely the problem, in too many MA and even single age games Ashdod is just banned, almost as much as LA Ermor/R'lyeh...

[LDiCesare]

Originally Posted by kianduatha

To a fairly great degree, those issues have been addressed--fairly massive price increases for their recruitable thug chassis(most notably so you can't purchase an Adon 1st turn) takes away some of their early momentum. Also the inclusion of the Hero's Blade gives an excellent counter to low numbers of elite giants.

How many MP games have even been played with Ashdod since 1.6 came out?

I don't think hero's blade does anything to counter Adonim. Last time I looked at a giant (admitedly a Hinnom one), I just decided that hero's blade wasn't worth it because I had noone who had a chance of surviving one blow from the giant, so he wouldn't ever hit him. Humans have a hard time against such giants. The gold increase reduces the number of adonim, but just look at a zamzummite, and you'll realise adonim are not the only issue with Ashdod. First time I met zamzummites, I thought they were capital only because they are so good. Nope.

[vfb]

Originally Posted by LDiCesare

I don't think hero's blade does anything to counter Adonim. Last time I looked at a giant (admitedly a Hinnom one), I just decided that hero's blade wasn't worth it because I had noone who had a chance of surviving one blow from the giant, so he wouldn't ever hit him. Humans have a hard time against such giants. The gold increase reduces the number of adonim, but just look at a zamzummite, and you'll realise adonim are not the only issue with Ashdod. First time I met zamzummites, I thought they were capital only because they are so good. Nope.

With high defense and mirror image, you might not get hit, and if he's using a brand you should ensure you've got 100% immunity to that element. Mistform will protect against a single hit, and luck helps.

The glamour horsemen are good candidates. If your nation has W2 mages, you should buff with Quickness,

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by LDiCesare

I don't think hero's blade does anything to counter Adonim. Last time I looked at a giant (admitedly a Hinnom one), I just decided that hero's blade wasn't worth it because I had noone who had a chance of surviving one blow from the giant, so he wouldn't ever hit him. Humans have a hard time against such giants. The gold increase reduces the number of adonim, but just look at a zamzummite, and you'll realise adonim are not the only issue with Ashdod. First time I met zamzummites, I thought they were capital only because they are so good. Nope.

It isn't just humans who benefit from a hero's blade while fighting adonim. There are at least a few things smaller than an adon that I can think of that should be able to survive a round or two with an adon, though admittedly they are not always super accessible. The glamour nations stick out as a group that should find it quite reasonable to use hero blades to chop down giants. Provided they can actually get the swords to do it.

Edit: Ninja'd by VFB, whose post was just better.

[Sir_Dr_D]

Couldn't we nominate someone else to continue with the balance mod, such as Sombre.