Mod: Adept's Mod (weapon, magic and monster changes)

[Adept]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

And other players have good troops. Attack 16 might not even be enough to dent the enemy troops reliably. Lets say marignon royal guards for example. defense 19, recruitable everywhere.

Er... the werewolf has 6 attacks due to being quikened. You did notice that they get _two_ claw attaks now? While the 50 gold royal guard may parry one or two, it's pretty much given that the werewolf will still tear up two of them / turn, and quite often four.

Nicely done, remembering that huge defence and kite shield. But that is the point anyway, the thing can be brought to bear very quickly, and shouldn't be super hard to counter. What is is is excellent value for money, especially as it's an excellent mage with movement that effectively approaches that of flying units due to the survival skill.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Adept

Er... the werewolf has 6 attacks due to being quikened. You did notice that they get _two_ claw attaks now? While the 50 gold royal guard may parry one or two, it's pretty much given that the werewolf will still tear up two of them / turn, and quite often four.

Nicely done, remembering that huge defence and kite shield. But that is the point anyway, the thing can be brought to bear very quickly, and shouldn't be super hard to counter. What is is is excellent value for money, especially as it's an excellent mage with movement that effectively approaches that of flying units due to the survival skill.

50? Ow right, 30 in CBM. I tend to use CBM. (I lie. I use CBM, always. Except when I test stuff for the wiki).

Of course, you also use a fire mage to cast bonds of fire on the skrattir. Causing damage, and making him lose a turn.

I don't agree with you on the movement. It is good, but flying really wins for a lot more reasons. Flying is way better. Attacking from a few provinces away is not comparable to movement the Skrattir has.

And 250 gold for a w2b2 1?wbnd mage isn't great actually. Horrible upkeep. Not super paths. (sure B gives options as a communion, but you need a few of them then). It is actually a bit overpriced then. The nature and death randoms have little use.

But why remove the slots? Why not just increase the cost to 300 gold?

Why remove the mid game options of gearing up the skrattir and say they are still very useful in wolf form by giving early game evidence that will never occur. (at the moment you have luck as a spell, and spare s1 hags, there will not be any indies left. Unless you play against horrible newbies, or gargantuan maps). Killing 10+ indy provinces doesn't mean that much. Try the same against mage supported heavy cav.

Heck try raiding with your skrattir + hag support. The hag will only be there every other turn, or it will get killed by archery or attack rear troops. So you cannot even rely on having eth+luck against players. And if you really piss somebody off with the eth/luck. 2 seeking arrows means you do not have a hag anymore. (And if you are in all out war, taking out a relatively rare s1 hag is a nice bonus, they are the most useful hag variants).

Try to use the skrattir without hag support. It will not work. Give them a vine shield, and it will work again. That isn't cheesy, it is just basic thug usage. And skrattir are one of the best thugs around. (Perhaps shishi are better ).

[Adept]

[quote=Soyweiser;785246][quote=Adept;785238]

Originally Posted by Soyweiser

it is just basic thug usage. And skrattir are one of the best thugs around. (Perhaps shishi are better ).

In that sentence you can see the reason why I wanted them more giant werewolf, and less super thug. You think they are fine as they are, I think they are over the top and overshadow the actual giant troops.

You don't agree. I don't feel the need to convince you. Experiences are based on multiplayer games and research into the precice mechanics. Try them out if you're interested, if not just let it be.

[Adept]

[quote=Soyweiser;785233]

Originally Posted by Adept

So you use 4 mages against heavy cav? most of the cav should die then. Try a rematch against more cav, 20 for example. It does not really have critical mass here. (I did some tests myself, with only one skrattir with luck and eth, it didn't go that well. The long combat resulted in fatigue, the massed attacks overcame the eth+luck. Crits -> afflictions -> meant the end of the wolf).

I didn't lose either wolf or take any afflictions in taking 10+ indie provinces. My point is that they still work quite well. I disagree with this mod "killing the skratti as a thug". It's still an excellent thug. If one want's to go nuts, one can always get an appropriate blessing and kit them out with shrouds among other stuff.

Still it's a werewolf. It should claw and bite, and now it does. With str 25, it is more than enough.

[Foodstamp]

@Deathblob

I am getting the same thing from squirrelloid's post. He prefers long shafts and a heavy heads for his armor penetration. I am admittedly unlearned on the subject, so IDK if it makes a difference whether the weapon is an axe, long shafted spear, or sword. Maybe some LARPer will come along and enlighten us.

[Deathblob]

Thanks Foodstamp!

You are obviously an expert on penetration, having joined these forums in Oct 2006, whereas I only joined in May 2011. I am just a very young grasshopper. A nymph, in fact.

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by Deathblob

Thanks Foodstamp!

You are obviously an expert on penetration, having joined these forums in Oct 2006, whereas I only joined in May 2011. I am just a very young grasshopper. A nymph, in fact.

I don't know that my forum experience has helped me with penetration at all. That is why I was hoping someone with more real experience on the subject would come along and tell us which implement is best for penetration so the balance mod can be modified accordingly. If using a long shafted spear actually results in more penetration, it would be useful to know.

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Foodstamp

I don't know that my forum experience has helped me with penetration at all. That is why I was hoping someone with more real experience on the subject would come along and tell us which implement is best for penetration so the balance mod can be modified accordingly. If using a long shafted spear actually results in more penetration, it would be useful to know.

There is such a thing as too much penetration. It isn't always a good idea to break through protection.

[Foodstamp]

Originally Posted by Squirrelloid

There is such a thing as too much penetration. It isn't always a good idea to break through protection.

I don't understand how too much penetration could be a bad thing? Are you afraid a long shafted spear would get stuck? If that is the case, maybe a long shafted spear could be used as a high penetration weapon that is rendered useless after the initial thrust. This could be achieved by using the #charge tag or something.

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Foodstamp

I don't understand how too much penetration could be a bad thing?

Just look at this image:
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