Stealth and Scattering Armor bonus

[tbontob]

The thread, "Frequently Asked Questions for Newbies" has this to say:
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2.5.2.1.1.2 At max tech, Stealth Armor is worth using in place of some shield generators or standard armors if:
15% of the total firepower an enemy must use to kill your ship is greater than 165 points of damage. This includes misses!
2.5.2.1.1.3 EG: if enemy ships are attacking with an accuracy of 30%, and your ship has 600 shield points, the enemy must fire on average 600/0.30 = 2000 damage worth of ordnance at you in order to kill your ships. 15% of 2000 is 300, which is greater than 165.
Therefore, by removing some shield generation and adding stealth armor, you will increase your ship's survival time. (Suicide Junkie)
2.5.2.1.2 Scattering armor
2.5.2.1.2.1 The situation with scattering armor is very similar to that of Stealth armor. The difference is that the scattering armor is less efficient. If given the choice of ONLY Stealth or Scattering armor, go for the stealth armor first.
2.5.2.1.2.2 At max tech, the value of scattering armor can be calculated similarly to that of stealth armor.
The only difference in this case is that you should use 290 in place of 165.
Using the example given for stealth armor, you can see that scattering armor would only barely be worthwhile. (Suicide Junkie)
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What does this mean?

I thought stealth and scattering armor gave the ship a 15% defensive bonus, thus making it harder to hit. And once hit, a ships damage is calculated normally.

Where did 165 and 290 damage points come from? And what is the explanation for their use?

[Unknown_Enemy]

You may prefer my own rule :
both stealth and scattering armors are mandatory on all ships whith 2 exceptions.

Exception 1 : you are fighting ships with talisman.

Exception 2 : You are fighting a missile race.

[spoon]

What does this mean?

I thought stealth and scattering armor gave the ship a 15% defensive bonus, thus making it harder to hit. And once hit, a ships damage is calculated normally.

Where did 165 and 290 damage points come from? And what is the explanation for their use?

I believe it is wrong, and you can safely ignore it. The 15% is additive, so the benefit you get on it varies based on the probability of being hit. If we knew what the average chance to hit was in SE4, then you could apply a system like this to figure out how much damage the stealth armor saves you from.

Bottom line should be: put both armors on all your attack ships, with a few exceptions. For example: Ships designed solely for worm-hole defense might want to skip them in lieu of more weapons. Ships designed to fight a race with Talismans don't need them, either).

[tbontob]

Hey guys, I hear what you are saying and you basically mirror my own thought/beliefs at the moment.

But Suicide Junkie has been around for a long time and I respect his opinions/findings although I may not necessarily agree with them all the time.

So, in order to formulate my own opinion about what he has said, I need to know what he means by what he said.

And at the moment, I am at a loss as to what he means.

Other questions like ascertaining the probability of a hit would be questions to ask after we fully understand his position.

[Suicide Junkie]

The 290 and 165 values are the break-even points of shields vs scattering and stealth armor, respectively.

If 15% (in the case of level 3 armor) of the total firepower the enemy must aim at you in order to breach your shields/armor is bigger than the break-even point, then the ECM effect of the armor is worth more than the extra shielding would be.

To figure out whether it is worth putting the armor on instead of more shield generator, do the following:
1) Take the shield points currently generated.
2) divide by the typical to-hit chance the enemy has against you. (30% accuracy means divide by 0.30)
The result there is the amount of weaponry/ammo the enemy usually has to fire at you to get enough hits for a kill.
3) Multiply the result in (2) by the ECM ability of your armor (0.05 = 5%, 0.10 = 10%, 0.15 = 15%)

If the answer you get is bigger than 165, then stealth armor is worthwhile. If it is bigger than 290, then scattering armor is also worthwhile.
If the number is less, then keeping the shields will make your ship Last longer.

Note: Odd situations will keep things dicey.
If the enemy has a super-huge gun (battlemoon, say) that kills in one shot, then you'll always want to go with the ECM, since hitpoints don't matter anymore.
Missiles and talismans will push the results the other way, since ECM is useless.

[tbontob]

Hi SJ

Still trying to get my brain around the logic of how shields and stealth/scattering armor can be compared.

The former prevents damage whereas the later helps to prevent a hit.

Maybe it would clear up if you could provide the formula by which the 290 and 165 values are derived.

[Gryphin]

So what the others were thinking is basicaly correct.
Since you will be recieving 15 to 30 percent fewer hits you need fewer shield gnerators.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Gryphin:
So what the others were thinking is basicaly correct.
Since you will be recieving 15 to 30 percent fewer hits you need fewer shield gnerators.

Except that the math he uses only applies to situations where the enemy has base 100% to hit (before armor modifications). If the enemy had a base 30% to hit, adding both armors would mean you would only be hit 1% of the time, which is not correctly reflected in his formulae.

Best advice is to put the armor on everything, unless you don't care about being hit, or your enemy is going to hit you 100% of the time anyway.

[Fyron]

Yes it is. You dived the decimal representation of their average chance to hit into the shield points you have. If you have 1000 shields and they have 100% to hit, they have to do an average of 1000 damage worth of shots to breach your shields. If they have a 50% to hit chance, they have to do an average of 2000 damage worh of shots to breach your shields. His formula reflects the base/average chance to hit very well.

[tbontob]

OK Guys

So what is the formula?