OT (or is it?): American Imperialism

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

I'm not Russian. And I'm not necessarily saying something about a "nefarious plot". But I do sometimes notice the over-excessive invasion of Americanism into our lives. A large part of the major expenses we (Europeans) make are either for Japanese or American products, but I don't see Japan invading islamic nations or forcing their way of life onto us.

edit: Oh, and if I reverse Shi'ite and Sunni in my post, well that doesn't matter that much - what I'm saying still holds. The Sunni minority will STILL be looked on with contempt from now on.

And what to think about the "vassal state" Iraq? It's an almost feudal situation. The US can basically do anything they want with the country.

edit 2: International trade? International trade is OK, multinationalism too, but commercial and cultural imperialism isn't.

[geoschmo]

Cultural imperialism doesn't exsist. It's a myth. It's something for people in other countries to blame when they see their children growing up listening to Rock and Roll and wearing Levi's. American parents have similer complaints. Insteaed of blaming other countries we blame Hollywood. I don't know what parents in Hollywood complain about.

American business doesn't go into other countries to spread our culture. They go there because they see an opportuity to make money selling things to people in those countries that want to buy them. If your complaint is that you don't like people in your country buying American products, then don't buy American products. But the real problem is that people in your contry want to buy American products, not "cultural imperialism".

[dogscoff]

I don't know what parents in Hollywood complain about.

Everyone in Hollywood is insanely happy all the time. They all have great teeth and big cars and no-one os ever sad. Or so I'm told.

American business doesn't go into other countries to spread our culture. They go there because they see an opportuity to make money selling things to people in those countries that want to buy them.

But that is american culture. I'm not saying that capitalism is an exclusively american thing, or that the US even invented it, but the form of excessive, aggressive, all-absorbing, all-homogenising, lowest-common-denominator, ignorance-worshipping capitalism that is currently melting the population of the entire universe into a gigantic, brainless, MTV-cloned consumer-pool for rampant, soulless multinationals was very much born in the US in the latter half of the last century. I guess it's difficult for Americans to appreciate just how invasive this influence feels to everyone else. For example, this year I've seen the first few Humvees in this country, and it sickens me that people here are actually becoming ignorant enough to think these hulking abominations are actually desirable on our overpopulated little island with its narrow old streets and city centres.

If your complaint is that you don't like people in your country buying American products, then don't buy American products.

I don't (Shrapnel products excluded). Doesn't seem to be making a difference so far.

[Will]

dogscoff said:Everyone in Hollywood is insanely happy all the time. They all have great teeth and big cars and no-one os ever sad. Or so I'm told.

Pssh. I think somebody also forgot to tell you that Hollywood is the ***-crack of Los Angeles Everything is a facade, and if you go beyond the main roads, you can see it for the slum it really is. Now the Valley on the other hand... or more accurately, vallies, there's a lot of them... Those people are the ones with the great teeth, big cars, and are never sad. They usually work in Hollywood, and they're almost always stoned. Which explains the never sad bit.

And as for nukes in other countries... look at it this way. Yes, technically it would be just as easy to put all of them on subs, and then the missile force would be a lot more mobile. But by having missiles at a fixed land location, it is more guaranteed that the missile will be there and ready the instant it is needed. But there's another reason. The countries hosting the missiles WANT them to be there. Think about it: some neighbor is giving you problems, all you have to do is mention that the US gave you THE BOMB. That's a pretty powerful bargaining tool. So in the end, it ends up being a trade. The US gets a guaranteed launch point, the host country gets better diplomatic relations and the ability to trot out that little fact in any negotiations.

And that basically sums up everything in this thread. If something exists, there's probably an American who will try to sell it. But, as was already said, you shouldn't get pissed off at the US for selling, you need to get pissed off at the people who are buying it. Basic economics, if there is no demand, supply means diddly. People all over the world buy into "American excess" because THEY WANT TO. I'm not saying it's a good thing, I personally abhor most of it, and prefer to live simply. But don't blanket-blame an entire country for what amounts to the vices of everyone else.

[TerranC]

The countries hosting the missiles WANT them to be there. Think about it: some neighbor is giving you problems, all you have to do is mention that the US gave you THE BOMB. That's a pretty powerful bargaining tool. So in the end, it ends up being a trade. The US gets a guaranteed launch point, the host country gets better diplomatic relations and the ability to trot out that little fact in any negotiations.

I was under the impression that US nukes deployed to foreign bases stay in the foreign US bases themselves, which are sovereign US territory unless otherwise dictated, which means that the nukes are under total US control and are not "given" to their host countries.

And a nuke does not mean better diplomatic relations and the ability to trot out that "little fact" in any negotiations; it only gives the other party (or parties) incentive to gain equal nuclear footing, or even achieve nuclear "superiority", which just screws up everything. Cuba was awarded nukes because the soviets wanted to offset american nukes in Turkey; The UK and France developed their own nukes in responce to Soviet and perhaps American ones; Pakistan developed nukes in order to offset India's military might, which in turn developed nukes itself; China developed nukes in order to tell the soviets off in the Sino-Soviet split, and support for nukes is growing if not revitalized in South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan, because of NK's nukes. Need I say more?

I personally abhor most of it, and prefer to live simply. But don't blanket-blame an entire country for what amounts to the vices of everyone else.

Hear, hear.

[Will]

Just a vain attempt to bring some levity to the discussion:

geoschmo said:
I don't know what parents in Hollywood complain about.

They complain about how hard it is to find a good supply of Vicodin. You would be doping up, too, if the whole world was blaming you for things. Even if they bought everything from you willingly, and continue to do so even after complaining

And re: American culture, to that I say: What American culture? We don't have any. We just take from everybody else's, mix together haphazardly, put it in lots of packaging, and call it "our culture". If anything, the only thing that you could call "American Culture" is our somewhat unique practice of selling anything and everything to whomever wants it, as long as you pay real money for it. And even then, I'm pretty sure that's just a European practice taken to the utmost extreme.

[dogscoff]

And even then, I'm pretty sure that's just a European practice taken to the utmost extreme.

Thankyou, that actually sums up my attitudes to American culture better than my own last post did. It seems that American culture is all about pushing evrything to its furthest possible extreme. Cars are good. Therefore, it must be good for everyone to have two cars each, and for each one to be the size and weight of an armoured personnel carrier. You like burgers? Well, here's a burger the size of your head- buy one get another free. Guys like boobs, right? Well then girls, go out and get surgery so your tits look like a couple of badly parked Volkswagen Beetles.

Moderation is gradually being erased, replaced by a culture of excession. This is a bad thing, in terms of personal health, public life and global resources. What's more, it's extremely hard to resist this kind of excession because it is so... well... excessive. By definition it has to be bigger, heavier, louder and richer and will out-compete and utterly destroy (or at least absorb, bastardise, soil, repackage and sell on) any more moderate alternative that stands in its way. It's a plague, it's the Borg. This is what the usa has brought to global culturem and this is why there is now this backlash (moderate backlash, like mine, and extreme backlash, like Al-Qaeda) against US culture.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Moderation in all things are some pretty good words to live by.

However, if someone sells you something and you buy it, you are responcible for the use to which you put it.

[TerranC]

StrategiaInUltima said:
A large part of the major expenses we (Europeans) make are either for Japanese or American products, but I don't see Japan invading islamic nations or forcing their way of life onto us.

That's because they already tried and failed.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

The US "way of life" is being forced upon us everywhere. That's what I call "cultural imperialism".