Semi-OT: The Icaran Empire Preview (the book one)

[Starhawk]

Well I don't know if Icara is as evil minded as people seem to say 1984's "State" was as the government of Icara honestly does allow a mostly free life. And they also beleive they are doing what's best for humanity.

From what I've heard of the 1984 society it's pretty much "everyone's a mindless drone" and the state dictates absolutely every aspect of life, right down to what you wear.

[Alneyan]

Perhaps you would be interested by Huxley's Brave New World instead? It is pretty much at the other side of the spectrum as far as dystopias, and might be an utopia for some people (whereas I can't think of anyone wanting to live in 1984).

[El_Phil]

As hunpecked said, coming along nicely. Still short a few checks and balances and is heading a bit 1984, not so much the grimness as the mental indoctrination. And the determination to keep the working class in power of course

My problem with the divine right has been covered: Religious freedom. Now if its 'freedom' as in your free to worship want you want, but your also free to be killed that's a problem as supressing people's religion does piss them of and cause civil wars. If it's actual freedom then by the nature of things some religions will not have the Praetor as a saintly figure. This is also a problem.

In fact I'd say Buddhism is fairly incompatible with this system. Apart from their general dislike of dogmas (such as the Praetor is saintlike) they also like each individual to follow their own path of meditation. This is dangerously like free thinking. Finally, and this is the biggie, they shouldn't kill or be associated in any way with killing, no matter how justified and neccessary the killing may be. Given that one of the main pillars of the Icaran goverment is killing dissidents or rebels that's a problem.

[dogscoff]

[Buddhists]shouldn't kill or be associated in any way with killing, no matter how justified and neccessary the killing may be. Given that one of the main pillars of the Icaran goverment is killing dissidents or rebels that's a problem.

This is true, but Buddhists do manage to live in all kinds of war-torn and violent parts of the world, under governments with unspeakable stains upon their consiences.

The thing about Buddhism is that it's incredibly diverse. The form we see in the west is derived largely from very 'pure' (and do I realise how prickly that word is in this context) forms of Tibetan and Japanese Buddhism straight out of the monastaries, that focus very tightly upon meditation, non-deification of the Buddha and the quest for enlightenment.
(Although naturally the rigorous and demanding monkish disciplines have been softened up a fair bit to accomodate our western lifestyles)

However, Buddhism as it is practised by the vast majority of Asian buddhists is a far more day-to-day belief system. You pray to Buddha. you have a little statue of him on the dashboard of your tuk-tuk to ward off evil and bad drivers. You go to the temple once a week to pray, and on special days or if you want something in particular you go and offer flowers or money or whatever. It has merged and mixed and blurred with various other local religions, so that to me it looks more like Hinduism or Sikhism or some other ism I don't even know the name of.

My point is that it's very versatile- it's as versatile as the people who follow it- and like any religion (technically, I know Buddhism isn't a religion but yadda yadda yadda) it will mold and evolve and hybridise itself to fit into whatever niches it can find in its environment (ie society). Just look at the way Western Christianity has absorbed all the pagan faiths that stood in its way as it swept across Europe, and the various pre-christian cults the Romans had to incorporate into it. The western Christianity of today is actually a diverse mongrel mixture of a dozen or more different religions/ faiths/ cults/ beliefs. Compare it to African Christianity, which often incorporates all kinds of local witch-doctor voodoo stuff, or to Judaism which, even though it is effectively Christianity's 'mother' faith, is barely recognisable as such except in shared scripture.

What this means for Starhawk is that after a few dozen generations, Buddhism (or at least mainstream buddhism) in his world would probably look like some kind of bizarre Icarist/buddhist hybrid that our buddhists would have difficulty recognising, and the Icarans would be more than happy to allow.

[Hunpecked]

Strategia_In_Ultima writes: "While reading 1984, it put me in a dark mood, but I was very happy to have read it. I can really recommend it."

Well-written, entertaining, and educational. Reading it helped me appreciate the innumberable examples of 1984-ish doublethink, disinformation, propaganda, and language manipulation rampant even in relatively free 21st Century Western Civilization.

But I think I liked it mostly because I'm a sucker for happy endings.