SEV question - new design tech levels? - Page 3

Fyron · #1 September 21st, 2006, 04:16 PM

Yes, you could make a mod have only 1 level of all components. It would make for a cluttered interface though, as the concept of families and roman numerals is replaced by the one entry per component line. You will have every explicit level showing in the design screen, and you will not be able to upgrade from APB I to APB II, have to manually replace.

Kana · #2 September 21st, 2006, 05:48 PM

Well it would be nice, if the next level of research could have a different 'flavor name' or something to that effect...I can see instances in some mods I want to make where it would be more appropriate to have a name for a new improved version of a component, than just a alpha/numeric increase in name...

PvK · #3 September 21st, 2006, 06:05 PM

Seems like it is nearly removing an option that existed in SE4. Many of the techs in Proportions mod, for example, can be researched to high levels for eventually diminishing returns but high costs. They are still useful to use for elite units, but one may consider whether they want fewer units with the best technology can offer, or cheaper more numerous units with less impressive technology.

In addition to the other uncountered reasons why someone might want to use lower tech, here's another: What if you want to build a new ship design, but don't want enemies to be able to scan it and find out your tech levels, or you want to deceive them into thinking you have lower tech than you do? Better use an old design, because it's just impossible to make new designs using old tech?

But no, I just have to remember to pre-make designs with enough of the old components on them to be able to copy and edit later - so I can still do it (except for different hull sizes I haven't researched yet), but only if I waste time making extra designs just to give me options I otherwise won't have because the UI won't let me.

PvK

Baron Munchausen · #4 September 21st, 2006, 09:26 PM

Quote:

PvK said:
Seems like it is nearly removing an option that existed in SE4. Many of the techs in Proportions mod, for example, can be researched to high levels for eventually diminishing returns but high costs. They are still useful to use for elite units, but one may consider whether they want fewer units with the best technology can offer, or cheaper more numerous units with less impressive technology.

In addition to the other uncountered reasons why someone might want to use lower tech, here's another: What if you want to build a new ship design, but don't want enemies to be able to scan it and find out your tech levels, or you want to deceive them into thinking you have lower tech than you do? Better use an old design, because it's just impossible to make new designs using old tech?

But no, I just have to remember to pre-make designs with enough of the old components on them to be able to copy and edit later - so I can still do it (except for different hull sizes I haven't researched yet), but only if I waste time making extra designs just to give me options I otherwise won't have because the UI won't let me.

PvK

Yes, this is a loss of functionality and game play options. We complained about it several times. Like we complained about many other things several times (*cough* clumsy UI *cough*). MM is just so busy trying to program an entire 4X game by himself that he fumbles and forgets things. We have to get together and stage a coordinated protest to get him to focus on something.

As with everything else, a bunch of ordinary players emailing him about the issues that we raised my make him finally do something...

Rollo · #5 September 22nd, 2006, 02:57 AM

Considering other things which could be improved, I find this one a pretty low priority.
Personally it never even crossed my mind using a lower level component.

Suicide Junkie · #6 September 22nd, 2006, 04:41 AM

Very true. I think this is one of those molehills on the landscape of SE5.

PvK · #7 September 21st, 2006, 06:35 PM

Hmm, and I suppose if you did make a mod where different levels were different techs, then it wouldn't be possible to only see the latest ones.

PvK · #8 September 21st, 2006, 09:13 PM

Nice idea, SJ... and sorta kinda a work-around, hmm, though it sounds like it means modding both the SE4 way and the SE5 way, twice. Lots of work, but it could be close to working the right way. So if I have a weapon tech that has three levels, it'd be:

Category: Death Ray - Latest Only
Death Ray component (SE5 definition of levels 1-3)
Category: Death Ray - Show All
Death Ray Level 1 component (SE4-like definition of one level)
Death Ray Level 2 component (SE4-like definition of one level)
Death Ray Level 3 component (SE4-like definition of one level)
Category: All Equipment - Latest Only
Death Ray component (SE5 definition of levels 1-3)
Category: All Equipment - Show All
Death Ray Level 1 component (SE4-like definition of one level)
Death Ray Level 2 component (SE4-like definition of one level)
Death Ray Level 3 component (SE4-like definition of one level)

That would allow users to do what they can do in SE4 - sort either by type, or show all types, and either show latest, or all tech levels. Takes more than twice as much mod copy/paste as in SE4, though I guess, as in SE4, someone can eventually write a UI/script that can generate the needed mod code.

Or, MM could fix the UI so it lets you select older versions of components (and vehicle sizes...).

PvK