Why Kailasa, Bandar Log, and Patala NEVER WIN

[NTJedi]

HJFudge said:
lol NT Jedi wants improved province defense as an option. Or at least thats what Ive gathered from every single post hes made in this topic so far. It'd be an interesting option depending exactly how it was implemented.

When it's implemented will hopefully be DOM_4. How it's implemented can be by several factors... these are just examples of theories so no one should flip out. Construction research could provide better body armor, an extra scale during pretender design which specifically targets the units of PD, an academy building can provide increased morale and attack skill (destroyed same as lab if province lost), gem investment can provide strength bonus, health bonus and magic resistance bonus(elixirs), gold investment can provide improved shields and helms. I'm sure the developers can add other ideas to the list.
Some type of upkeep based on capital distance should also exist to prevent a powerful player from becoming more powerful.

[Zylithan]

Hopefully this isn't considered offensive, except how it is meant to be...

[sum1lost]

Death bless will molest ulmish troops and pretender, end of story. Afflictions up the wazzoo, with mr based an attack.

[Evilhomer]

Whatever pretender you build there is a counter (not to mention your pretender cannot be everywhere). Also the bandar log player is allowed a pretender of his own you know.

Edit: I feel we have argued this as far as it will go, if you want to test the ulm v bandar log deal feel free to send me a pm.

[jaif]

One thought. If you start a game on a 2-space map - one space ulm, one space bander log - then bander log probably loses unless I'm missing something. But make it a 2 person game with 500 areas, and ulm doesn't even get to bander log for a long time.

One other thought - everybody here is so quick with telling the bander log player to micro-manage a ton of patrolling forces - that doesn't sound like a lot of fun, even if it is viable.

One question - has anybody here played Bander Log and done well in MP? Even if it's not a win, it's a start.

-Jeff

[Hadrian_II]

jaif said:
One thought. If you start a game on a 2-space map - one space ulm, one space bander log - then bander log probably loses unless I'm missing something. But make it a 2 person game with 500 areas, and ulm doesn't even get to bander log for a long time.

One other thought - everybody here is so quick with telling the bander log player to micro-manage a ton of patrolling forces - that doesn't sound like a lot of fun, even if it is viable.

One question - has anybody here played Bander Log and done well in MP? Even if it's not a win, it's a start.

-Jeff

Hint, the bandar player wont have to micromanage patrollers, as his army of elephants will siege ulms castles, and dual blessed tigre rider raiding parties will either be raiding ulm, or conquer back raided provinces one by one (and yes, the tigre riders will be able to kill 17 armoured archers and one commander)

If ulm wins this, bandar log did something very wrong.

[jaif]

The second thought and the first thought were not connected. In the first thought, I'm pointing out that PD is more important when you start close to each other, and less important when you spread out.

In the second thought, I'm pointing out that when you have many people on many fronts, it is annoying to keep patrols around parrying someone else's jabs, especially when they play guessing games with you.

I'm not saying it isn't doable, but it sure doesn't sound fun.

-Jeff

[Lord_Bob]

And Ulm's Large Pretender with fear effect will destroy the Elephants.

[K]

jaif said:

One question - has anybody here played Bander Log and done well in MP? Even if it's not a win, it's a start.

-Jeff

I've done well with them in MP. I played thejeff and some other guys, so you can ask him(he notes it in the one of the first posts in this thread). The game ended when I went to law school, and several people wanted to declare me the winner, but some guys wanted to fight me before they gave up.

This game is more than PD, in my opinion.

PS. Yomi has a weaker PD.

[Lord_Bob]

My tests show that 17 Heavy Infantry, or 17 Heavy Archers with an independent commander will regularly route 20 Patala PD with 1 or 2 casualities even when the Patala PD is in a friendly Dominion. National troops with kite shields and decent armour would be worse.

It is a sub-function of the game that got overlooked. It is easy to fix and I have no idea why people are upset over it being a real problem in a small number of cases. Are they worried that these races will become all powerfull if their PD is raised to a level comparable with others? Once PD has reached a certain level of power, increased strength really doesn't matter much. Below that level, it does. PD can't be scripted, thus a well put together army with mages will always beat it. But that's isn't the point of PD. The point of PD is to beat very small attacks.

Markata have a Morale of 7, a MR of 8, a strenght of 5 and 5 hitpoints. Yet they are given a gold piece price of 5. This has caused the 30 gold per point of PD system to give a very weak PD to Patala. Further, their complete lack of equipment makes this even worse.

My contention was that Kailasa/Bandar Log/Patala PD is easily defeated because of the morale failure of the Markata, they only have 7, long before any other PD is very testable and provable. Because the Markata are present in far larger numbers than the other troops, when the Markata rout the other troops route as well, because of the 75% rout rule. Tests of the last two hours prove this out. Machaka PD is also very weak. However, since Machaka is also viewed as a troubled nation, this is hardly evidence that my other opinions are wrong. But yes, it is difficult to prove the other contentions.