Scales for the Jomon in CBM 1.92

[thejeff]

I haven't tested this, but I believe Teaching Sign is the same effect as PotS, which would mean it won't stack.

Easy enough to test if you want to be sure.

Look for the Debug Mod if you want to make it really easy.

[legowarrior]

It wouldn't cast Teaching sign, after I cast Power of the spheres. So I guess that answers that!

[shatner]

Originally Posted by legowarrior

It wouldn't cast Teaching sign, after I cast Power of the spheres. So I guess that answers that!

Yeah, I rigorously tested this and I can confirm that PotS and Teaching Sign do not stack.

Test 1:
Order of commanders
4 communion slaves
1 N1 monk with slave matrix
1 master with crystal matrix

Script
Slaves cast communion slave, monk casts teaching sign, master casts PotS.

Result
Monk gains +1 N and H from Teaching sign before PotS is cast. After PotS is cast, all other slaves gain +1 to all paths, monk remains unchanged.



Test 2:
Order of commanders
4 communion slaves
1 N1 monk with crystal matrix
1 master with crystal matrix

Script
Slaves cast communion slave, monk casts teaching sign, master casts PotS.

Result
Monk gains +1 N and H from Teaching sign before PotS is cast, as do all the slaves. After PotS is cast, master gains +1 in all paths but none of the slaves do.

[legowarrior]

So, Teaching sign only effected the slaves?

[shatner]

In test 2 (which is the one I believe you are referring to), teaching sign effected the monk (who was 1 of 2 masters in the communion) and all the slaves, giving them all +1 in all paths. The other master in the communion then cast power of the spheres. While all the slaves + the master (but no the monk) had the little sparkle/cloud graphic you get from being effected by power of the spheres, none of the slaves received a path boost from it (though the master did).

This means that teaching sign and power of the spheres are considered identical effects and therefore don't stack.

[legowarrior]

Right now I'm trying a lady of Fortune with 4 Water, 4 Astral, 5 Domain, 3 Order, 3 Production, 2 Misfortune, 1 Magic.

The idea is that Water and Astral are to two types of mana you don't start with, so hopefully, she can find some, and with 25 troops and some armor take a sea province early in the game. The scales are good, so I can build a lot of troops, and with hopefully early misfortune won't be an issue with my mages.

[legowarrior]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I'm doing some research with LA Jomon to help with MA Jomon a bit.
I'm going with a Lady of Fortune, Dormant
4 Fire, 4 Water, 4 Astral and 2 Death. (This gives me 3 weak blesses, and some death access for Shura).
Dominion 7, Order 2, Productivity 2, Misfortune 1.

What do you think?

[Calahan]

As a general rule you should only ever take Magic 3, Magic 1, or Drain 2, regardless of nation (unless it's for a game with crazy settings). This is because any other choice for the Magic scale is either just an awful idea (Drain 3) or is purely wasting design points and/or research potential (Magic 0, Magic 2, Drain 1) due to the way the Magic scale settings are spaced out with regard to gaining or losing RP's.

I have not seen, or will I ever see, a good build for any nation that involves either Magic 0, Magic 2 or Drain 1 (not unless some major gameplay changes get patched/modded in). There might be a decent design involving Drain 3 for one of the nations that can ignore the RP lost with Drain, but even that is unlikely unless it's a small game, and not unless you like possibly losing sack loads of gems to the Magic Fading event (this event alone can often be enough to avoid taking Drain scales).

So while I won't comment on your build for Jomon, I will say that by taking Magic 0, you are instantly making your design a poor one, and the very first thing to do when designing a Pretender for Jomon should be to take (at least) Magic 1 and proceed from there (as is the case for 95% of nations)

[SsSam]

Originally Posted by Calahan

As a general rule you should only ever take Magic 3, Magic 1,I have not seen, or will I ever see, a good build for any nation that involves either Magic 0, Magic 2 or Drain 1 (not unless some major gameplay changes get patched/modded in).

I can understand that if you are going to take Drain 1, you might as well take the battlefield hit and take Drain 2 since it won't make your research any worse and it gives you +40 for your pretender to use elsewhere.

Likewise, I can see that taking Magic 2 makes spells marginally easier to cast than Magic 1, but is not worth 40 design points.

I'm a bit surprised to see Magic 0 on your list and I can't immediately come up with a straightforward reason why you think this would be prohibited.

On the other hand, I've read enough of your posts to be confident that you have a good reason for excluding what seems to me to be the balanced magic 0 option. Would you mind explaining?

[Bat/man]

Originally Posted by Calahan

I have not seen, or will I ever see, a good build for any nation that involves either Magic 0, Magic 2 or Drain 1 (not unless some major gameplay changes get patched/modded in).

The advice, generally, is good, but I think it overstates it a tad in the case of Magic 0.

Take Bogarus, as one example. From memory, their master of names is 8 RP. +1 on the magic scale yields about a 12.5% increase in research. (Lessened by mages that are crafting, searching or engaged in battle of course).

Whereas +1 on the Order Scale results in a 6-7% increase in the value of all income on all provinces.

Likewise Mictlan and other blood nations can use dome of corruption to increase the magic scale to m+3. If you are setup to endure the horrors - then you can enjoy M+3 without paying the design points for it.

But, like Calahan said - usually magic+1 is a very good design choice.