Polish OOB2 corrections/suggestions (v.6)

[Pibwl]

Photos of 37mm mle.16 and 65mm mle.06 guns can be as well used in other countries.

Originally Posted by Pibwl

561, 562 Wz.28 (available in 9/39) - they should be given other class, so that they can't be chosen in armoured car squadrons (there were only 3 left in 1939). Maybe 230 Colonial AC, with an appropriate platoon (named eg. just "Wz.28 platoon").

Probably in 1939 there only remained MG-armed version, but this is my educated assumption (all but 3 cars had been converted to wz.34, so probably all gun-armed cars were converted). In any case there could remain no more, than one gun-armed.

Actually, I'm quite convinced, that no gun-armed wz.28 cars survived until 1939, and so unit 562 can be removed.
There were initially only "about 30" gun cars, and 37mm guns weren't as freely available, as wz.25 MGs. In 1939 there should be exactly 30 gun-armed wz.34 cars in mobilized formations, so most probably all gun cars were converted to wz.34.

On the other hand, unit 561, with a separate class and platoon, should can start at 1/37, right after units 664-665.

You can read more at http://derela.republika.pl/wz28.htm

[Pibwl]

As for captured Italian guns, they might have been 100/17 howitzers, which seem popular at that time in North Africa.

To finish with 1939 armoured cars:

569 Wz.29 Ursus - they were built and given to the Army in 7/31 (now 1/30).
Speed could be 12 (35 km/h - now 11) - same for units 574, 671.

Armament of all wz.29 cars should be IMO reduced to gun and one TMG only.
The car officially had three MGs in the beginning, but a BMG was rear-facing, what made it useful in peculiar combat situations only.
The remaining three weapons (gun, TMG and AAMG) were manned by a commander and mounted in different sides of a turret, what made quick change of weapon difficult. As for AAMG in an upper ball mounting, it was inefficient, and quickly removed (more: http://derela.republika.pl/wz29.htm)
The first unit 569 could have AAMG instead of TMG, because it had some chance of downing a slower aircraft of that era. In next units it should be TMG.

I'll attach alternative pictures.


570-572 Wz.34, Wz.34 I, Wz.34 II (variants with MG and early camo) - in my opinion, distinguishing between these models doesn't make much sense. They mark only mechanical components, weren't usually used, and can't be associated with either of two types of armoured hull (more: http://derela.republika.pl/wz34.htm).
Wz.34 I is completely redundant - no external difference, nor in specifications, not distinguished from wz.34 II in official statistics.
Wz.34 II was newest model, but according to a military manual, it was in fact a bit slower (50 km/h) than wz.34 (54 km/h) (now wz.34 II has 18, rest - 16). IMO, its speed should be 17 (=51 km/h). It could be merged with wz.34 and named just "wz.34", or we could keep both, one with a picture with old hull (vertical rear) and one with newer hull (slanted rear).

BTW: the picture 29521 of #571 has late camo, while it's supposed to have old camo.


575-577 Wz.34a, Wz.34 Ia, Wz.34 IIa - as above (variant with 37mm gun and late camo). There was no designation with "a" for a variant with 37mm gun (or any other special designation). It might be named "Wz.34 (37mm)"

674-676 Wz.34a, Wz.34 Ia, Wz.34 IIa - as above (variant with 37mm gun and early camo).
Picture 29519 shows cars in late camo, while it is supposed to be early camo. I'll attach a photo of the car with gun and early camo.

678-680 Wz.34, Wz.34 I, Wz.34 II - as above (variant with MG and late camo).
If we'd like a photo, a proper one is in fact 29521 (used for early unit 571)

Michal

[PvtJoker]

Originally Posted by Pibwl

As for captured Italian guns, they might have been 100/17 howitzers, which seem popular at that time in North Africa.

To finish with 1939 armoured cars:

569 Wz.29 Ursus - they were built and given to the Army in 7/31 (now 1/30).
Speed could be 12 (35 km/h - now 11) - same for units 574, 671.

Armament of all wz.29 cars should be IMO reduced to gun and one TMG only.
The car officially had three MGs in the beginning, but a BMG was rear-facing, what made it useful in peculiar combat situations only.
Michal

The 100/17 was the standard divisional howitzer of the Regio Esercito since the 1920's. The Italians received a very large number of them as war reparations from former Austro-Hungarian countries and some were captured already during the war. They also made spare parts (including barrels) for them and during WW2 a number were possibly upgraded to longer L/22 barrel (at least ex-Polish 100/22 were used, but the information on the upgrade is inconclusive). So, it was common pretty much everywhere the Italians fought, so indeed it is quite likely that many were captured in North Africa by Allies.

The 100/17 was a little short-ranged by WW2 standards, but otherwise had good qualities (like most Skoda designs, one might add) and was well-liked by Italian artillerymen. The Italians liked the piece so much that it was upgraded twice after WW2, the second time in 1961 with a 105mm L/22 barrel capable of firing standard NATO ammunition. They were scrapped only after the end of the cold war. It must have been one of the longest lasting if not THE longest lasting WW1 artillery pieces anywhere.

Sorry about getting a little carried away; about the rear facing MGs of the wz. 29: such weapons were very common in the 1920s and 1930s armored cars. The rationale seems to have been that armored cars were likely to run into ambushes while reconnoitering and would be required to fight their way out with enemies on all sides. The rear driving positions, often with additional driver, were based on the same doctrine as well. Turning the cars around on narrow dirt roads was often impossible and going cross-country difficult with a 4x2 drive. Even the Italian AB 40/41 still retained those qualities out of inertia, while it was a modern design with much better cross-country mobility, and probably did not have much use for the rear driver in practice other than as an extra help in maintenance.

[Pibwl]

Aircraft:

585 LWS-4A Zubr - correct designation is LWS-6 Żubr (LWS-4A was used in old books and is now declared as wrong). This unit is however in fact redundant - a small series was built and assigned for training only, being inferior to PZL 37 Łoś, not used in combat.
BTW: it has no dedicated icon, but uses Potez 540.

587 PZL P-43 - should be PZL-43 (or PZL-43 Karas). They were produced in 1937 indeed, but for export only (now available from 10/37). Only in 9/39 two aircraft were pressed to Polish service and briefly used. It's rather "what if" unit, but in game terms its only advantage over PZL-23 Karas is 1 MG more, so it might be redundant (the players should rather not treat this plane as a standard one, for it would be inaccurate. Maybe it should be reclassified to 243 Ground attack and used in prototype formation?).

589 SPAD 61 C1 - it could also carry two #193 12kg bombs [book by A. Morgała]. Withdrawn from active use by end of 1931 (now 11/32).

590 SPAD 51 C1 - icon is typical PZL P fighter - better is 2906 (slightly larger, from some bomber, but with similar swept wings), eventually 2903.

592 PWS-A - used in units from 7/30 (now 1/30) until end of 1935 (now 12/34) [book by A. Morgała].

593 PWS-10 - used from mid-31 (now 1/31)

594 PZL P-7a - it was used in units only since spring 1933 (now: 10/32 for unit 594) [book by A. Morgała].

Precisely, units 592-594 used Vickers MGs converted to 7.9mm (earlier units: 7.7mm indeed)

602 PWS-26 - only #193 12kg bombs could be carried instead of 25 kg.
Speed should be max 3 (now 4) (217 km/h - it was a trainer)

603 Lublin R-XIIIA - proper icon is 2925 - all R-XIII, including early models, were camouflaged (as is visible on photos).

606 Lublin R-XIIIG - only #193 12kg bombs could be carried instead of 25 kg.
Speed should be only 2 (now 4) (175 km/h)