Leo2A4 destroyed

[Imp]

Saudi Leclerc's don't seem to be fairing to badly, interestingly just tried having a quick look for them & the dessert warrior in the OOB & could not find, think I have default OOB.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Imp

Saudi Leclerc's don't seem to be fairing to badly, interestingly just tried having a quick look for them & the dessert warrior in the OOB & could not find, think I have default OOB.

Leclercs are in "Gulf states" along with the Warrior as UAE is part of the "Gulf States" OOB. There is talk the Saudis are interested but nothing to say they have any

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I don't think you'll have to worry about LeClerc's in Saudi Arabia our Senate just this past Aug/Sep approved a Saudi arms request for $1.15 Billion. This deal includes 150 M1A1/M1A2S (These are apparently on par with our M1A2 SEP V2.) ABRAMS to include an additional, I believe ~10-20 M88 Recovery tanks.
http://www.bahraindefence.com/indust...audi-tank-deal

These tanks probably will replace around the 20 M1A1 ABRAM's lost in combat in Yemen in the last 1.5 years. Also it is believed these tanks will start to replace the around 450+ M60A3 PATTON tanks.

And to stay on topic...
You might find the PROTECTION section of the next very useful.
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm

Regards,
Pat

[Imp]

Originally Posted by DRG

Leclercs are in "Gulf states" along with the Warrior as UAE is part of the "Gulf States" OOB. There is talk the Saudis are interested but nothing to say they have any

My bad realised that later

[RightDeve]

It's been proven Leopard's greatest weakness is when facing hand combat

Source:

https://youtu.be/nPMi136tURg?t=21

[DRG]

I think ( hope ? ) what the Turks and everyone else learns from this is the absolute necessity in this era of missile and tank design of active and/ or passive ATGM countermeasures. Those two Leos could very well be still in Turkish Army hands right now if they had Trophy installed

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

...or went with the LEO-2T Program. Maybe now they'll more seriously reconsider this program as the ALTAY stumbles slowly off the production lines. LEO-2T would've given them that "top tier" LEO they obviously need. Maybe they (Turkey) should learn from the Indonesians who were smart enough to have had the Germans upgrade them to the LEO-2A6 standard after they received their first batch (~5) of modernized 2A4 tanks, they recognized they might need more as the shadow of China was just starting to arise in the South China Sea AOR.

Gotta go duty calls! Happy New Year everyone!!

Regards,
Pat

[Wdll]

Originally Posted by DRG

I think ( hope ? ) what the Turks and everyone else learns from this is the absolute necessity in this era of missile and tank design of active and/ or passive ATGM countermeasures. Those two Leos could very well be still in Turkish Army hands right now if they had Trophy installed

Human loss aside, I am not particularly sad they lost/lose tanks. But yeah, actually was thinking the same thing years ago when in Greece we still had mostly M60, M48 and even AMX 30B as our main tanks. Not saying the current Leo 2HEL is the best solution, no idea how better it would have been in the same exact situation without change of tactics too. The Israelis have the right idea IMO.

[IronDuke99]

Tanks, and other armoured vehicles actually expected to fight in the front line, need every advantage they can get when faced with modern missiles.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by DRG

I think ( hope ? ) what the Turks and everyone else learns from this is the absolute necessity in this era of missile and tank design of active and/ or passive ATGM countermeasures. Those two Leos could very well be still in Turkish Army hands right now if they had Trophy installed

It all goes to show the Russians were right ATGMs are very dangerous to vehicles. You need active defences or at the very least men on the ground to deny suitable firing points especially on the flanks.

Israel learnt this quite a while back when they got cocky & thought the Merkava invincible, everybody should have. Tactical awareness is first line of defence battlenet greatly improved, tanks carry drones etc & if someone does get off a shot Trophy is probably the best countermeasure system available.
No wonder the USA supports them they study there tactics & tech though they seem to want a home engineered system rather than Trophy, economic reasons I suppose.