what about the future?

[Eximius Sus]

Originally Posted by Tim Brooks

So go ahead tell us how terrible we are. We're pretty used to it. But pardon me if I don't take the conversation all that seriously.

You replied. You generally don't react to most of the drivel posted on this forum. Clearly you care. I'd say you take this quite seriously. I mean let's face facts. Sales is your life blood. If you don't sell you die. Simple enough.

[13lackGu4rd]

quite an easy question in my opinion Tim Brooks, obviously the first. the reason is also simple. sure, you will need to pay salaries for 50 people, netting in less net income than if you do all the work yourself. however it also opens up the ability to manufacture more products, which in turn will increase your net income by a lot more than what you would have otherwise saved in salary fees. moreover, time equals money, even your own, so by letting other people work for you, you free your own time to do other things. those things can result in a higher income if that's what you wish, or they can be spending more time with your family, etc. it's your freedom to decide what to do with your time, and that can be worth a lot more than 50 salaries.

[Fantomen]

Well, assuming it was a game and I was the developer, I'd sure as hell rather have 10000 people playing it than 1. So in that case 1.

But assuming I'm in it for the money and pure profit is the only value? Sure then 2, or...

...you also have to take into account the value of fame. Having a big title that many people play is a whole lot of money saved on free advertising next time I release something. And then those 50 people could help me supporting the company further, being friends, providing a wide slate of competence, contact network, internal feedback, idea generating, and in general enabling the business to grow and develop into something I could be proud of every day.

Nice rhetorical question. Is it fair? Are you in it just for the money? Is that why you're in the business of distributing niche TBS games?

Life is a bit like that choice isn't it? People choosing 2 are the ones speculating in land or currency, risk investment, weapon export, drugs, fast food chains and so on. Or just doing well paid jobs just for the money, or fail and do soulless ****jobs for the ones who succeeded.

People choosing 1 are ones who care. Nurses, NGO workers, artists, scientists, teachers and an endless row of others. Not the least indie game developers.

I'm an independent filmmaker, you can say I choose 1 every day. I hire loads of people to help me realize creative visions without even knowing if I'll break even. Is it worth it? Hell yeah!

Did that answer your question?

[13lackGu4rd]

I think you're a bit confused Fantomen.

Originally Posted by Fantomen

Well, assuming it was a game and I was the developer, I'd sure as hell rather have 10000 people playing it than 1. So in that case 2.

I thought you meant 1, cause 2 would be a single unit(hence a single player) costing 1mil$...

But assuming I'm in it for the money and pure profit is the only value? Sure then 1, or...

actually, in his example 2 would give the most pure profit, as you're saving the 50 salaries you pay in 1 to reach the same profit of 1mil$. but it's true that 1 gives a lot more potential income.

...you also have to take into account the value of fame. Having a big title that many people play is a whole lot of money saved on free advertising next time I release something. And then those 50 people could help me supporting the company further, being friends, providing a wide slate of competence, contact network, internal feedback, idea generating, and in general enabling the business to grow and develop into something I could be proud of every day.

sure, free advertisement is always nice, but that's not the main point. being proud of your business sort of contradicts what you're saying later, but it's an emotional reason not logical. now, whether you make decisions based on logic or ratio is entirely up to you(or well, any individual) but that's an entirely different subject.

Nice rhetorical question. Is it fair? Are you in it just for the money? Is that why you're in the business of distributing niche TBS games?

totally irrelevant to his example Imho. to be precise it's more about "the big score" vs being there over time, short term vs long term if you will.

Life is a bit like that choice isn't it? People choosing 1 are the ones speculating in land or currency, risk investment, weapon export, drugs, fast food chains and so on. Or just doing well paid jobs just for the money, or fail and do soulless ****jobs for the ones who succeeded.

I think you missed the point entirely. people who choose 1 are the people who made companies and corporations, what makes the modern world work... being a lazy bum or a mediocre(or worst) employee isn't in the discussion, he's talking about working alone or starting a company, not about being a salaryman or being independent...

People choosing 2 are ones who care. Nurses, NGO workers, artists, scientists, teachers and an endless row of others. Not the least indie game developers.

again, completely irrelevant to his example Imho.

I'm an independent filmmaker, you can say I choose 2 every day. I hire loads of people to help me realize creative visions without even knowing if I'll break even. Is it worth it? Hell yeah!

Did that answer your question?

the bold part means you chose 1 not 2, does it not...? and no, you probably didn't answer his question, I think you got confused by it.

[Fantomen]

So I accidentally switched the alternatives? Big deal.

I fixed it, makes sense now?

I think my answer is very relevant. I didn't get confused by the question but I refuse to fall down into that level of debate. What is actually irrelevant is asking rhetorical questions where you try to lure other debaters into a purified logic which doesn't account for even a fraction of the real context.

On one hand Shrapnel has reasons to set the prices they do, that's a fact. On the other hand lot's of people think dom3 is terribly overpriced for what you get, feeling that it's simply a lot of money to invest in a computer game. That's a fact too.

Shrapnel wants to make money, but the customer obviously don't care about that. The customer wants a lower price, but Shrapnel obviously don't care about that. They prefer fewer customers who pay more, if I'm understanding Tim right.

So we have two angles of debate who doesn't give a **** about each others arguments. It's the worst possible climate of discussion, and indeed the amount of hostility and chest thumping fill the air with fumes of testosterone.

At least the representatives of Shrapnel are consequent in their approach to critics and perceived dissidents of the community, arrogant and repressive.

[13lackGu4rd]

no, you didn't just switch the alternatives, you were talking about completely different things... you were mainly talking about being a salaryman vs an independent, he was talking about working as an individual or starting a company(of more than a 1 man show that is). you were trying to light up 1 of the options as positive and the other as negative, when it's not about good vs bad at all, it's merely about making logical vs emotional decisions.

the people who would choose 2 in his example are the people who feel sentimental value for their work, don't trust others' work but only their own, etc. well, I guess there are also those who can't manage other people yet still wish to remain independent, hence they end up working alone, or those that are just looking for the big score than moving onto the next gamble. you know, people who like living on the edge(economically speaking, not physically as in life or death). but neither of these groups form the majority of any modern society. so for most people, who are in the position to actually make the choice between those 2 alternatives, the clear answer would be 1.

[Fantomen]

Am I obliged to limit my response to a model of inscrutable logic? Just because someone is throwing rhetoric questions around?

And Tim asked if you'd rather sell 1 expensive unit yourself or many units with more effort. That question spurs a lot more than just individual vs. company. Or logic vs. emotion. That's also profit vs. availability and customer friendliness. Or in other words, what is it worth to have an audience?

Besides, you don't ask rhetorical question because you want an answer, so why give one? Better to use the opportunity to really say something you think has meaning.

[Foodstamp]

What's the most watched youtube video?

[Squirrelloid]

Originally Posted by Foodstamp

What's the most watched youtube video?

Some music video by Bieber.

Here's the top 10 of all time as of a month ago:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0430123849.htm

[Foodstamp]

We should build a turtle fence.