MP: YARG3, non newb MA+ENP2 RAND game. Executor's Ulm winner on turn 76

[WraithLord]

Curious Yellow, I'm curious (but not yellow ) why did you attack me?- You and Ulm were both in great position and the "right" move for you was to duke it out w/ him.
It was obvious to the players that Ulm was OP so you would have gotten help for sure. I was just waiting for you to make that move and join w/ you.
But instead you attacked Van - a strong nation w/ excellent income, strong armies and gr8 blood income. What was your rational anyway?- Nullify us both so Ulm would have a red carpet to victory?

Calahan, I moved that stack b/c Ctis was massing armies on my borders in that area. I wanted a military presence in the area so that my lands wouldn't seem like easy picking.
I had more "death" stacks as Ulm has found out when he invaded me. In-fact IIRC we only had one real army vs. army battle and the Vans won the day. Taking into acct significant research + equipment advantage to Ulm I'd say yes, the buggers made me proud and earned their place at Valhalla

[WraithLord]

Curious Yellow, you attacked me first. I remember thinking WTF, now why did he do that?- He just signed off Ulm's victory

Savorgia joined after I reacted to your attack.

[WraithLord]

Let there be no doubt. On turn 45 CY's Eriu attacked me in two provinces: 155 + 142.
This in a no diplo game is a one way ticket to war and given the context a fairly stupid move. You may have won the game or had a much better chance had you attacked Ulm instead.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

Calahan, I moved that stack b/c Ctis was massing armies on my borders in that area. I wanted a military presence in the area so that my lands wouldn't seem like easy picking.

I haven't got the turns to hand right now, but was the province next to the Eriu cap the only province you could move to so that you covered the C'tis angle? Wasn't that army all MM2 or MM3? And to me it seemed C'tis's movements were very consistant with simply "grabbing a bit of Eriu", and I saw no intent against Van or Svag (although you may have different intel and view). But if that is the case then it looks like we both had little faith in our neighbours As you moved in reaction to C'tis, and I moved in reaction to your reaction.

[WraithLord]

Originally Posted by Calahan

I haven't got the turns to hand right now, but was the province next to the Eriu cap the only province you could move to so that you covered the C'tis angle? Wasn't that army all MM2 or MM3? And to me it seemed C'tis's movements were very consistant with simply "grabbing a bit of Eriu", and I saw no intent against Van or Svag (although you may have different intel and view). But if that is the case then it looks like we both had little faith in our neighbours As you moved in reaction to C'tis, and I moved in reaction to your reaction.

Was it province 127?- If so, I moved there b/c earlier I grabbed from Eriu a good chunk of land to the south. When I saw Ctis making a quick grab for these lands I moved this army as sort of a "stop" go no further sign.

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

But certainly MA Van is a strong nation as should be (nation of fierce vikings should be nothing else).

I agree; it's nice to see them back in strength after a long decline beginning with the great glamour nerf in a patch.

Your build is similar to my EA Van build (bless + scales) except I went with E4N4 instead, which gave me a couple more scales. But I did end up regretting not getting some S on my pretender since I could find absolutely no S mages throughout the game.

[Calahan]

Congrats on the win Ex. When I subbed in (see next) I did think you were Van for a turn or two (mainly because I thought WL looked like Ulm given the battles I saw), but then a few signs pointed to you being Ulm. Can't remember what they were exactly, most likely is I'm fairly sure I've played more games with you than any other player, so if I can't spot you quickly by now then there's something wrong with me! (or you've managed to change styles!). After that I instantly nailed WL as Van, as I could see no way he was C'tis (graphs indicated C'tis was way too turtley and passive for WL). And there was no way I had taken over for WL as my nation was a joke which WL would never has signed his name to...


I subbed in as Svarogia for half a dozen turns or so, entirely to repay a favour or two to rdonj from previous YARG games. The sudden upward turn-around in the graphs, followed by an equally sudden and rapid decline, will likely give away the turns I played The nation was a complete mess though, and no idea how it had gained as much land as it had. The original player, whoever it was, also completely failed to notice in pre-game testing that Svagoria's freespawn chaff has .66gp upkeep. Which on top of the hundreds of Cav units, and (to me) a useless "feck diversity just take scales" build meant the nation was swimming in horrendous upkeep and sucking hard from the well of stink when I took over. Not my worst ever sub experience, but certainly my worst "important nation" sub ever.

I won't go into ranty detail on the nation or the turns I played, but in brief I turned the Eriu war around to the point of booting them off land and into the sea (also had my highest ever single turn fort gain at one point ). And was all ready to turn on Ulm when I had to sub-out and leave that for my successor(s). And apols for the clashes Van, and the things I killed (thanks for the Arch Devil though). Although I really have to ask why you moved your death stack towards the Eriu cap after taking that Eriu fort on our border? As that sent me such a negative signal that it meant instead of moving all my stacks towards Ulm as I had planned, I had to re-route them to the Eriu cap as I thought you'd had a brain freeze and was trying to challenge me for it. This resulted in a 2-turn delay of a strike on Ulm. Doubt it would have made much difference, but it certainly made some. (partly because I would have still been playing to do the first strike, and first two turns of war)

No idea how the Svagoria VPs fell at the end. I left whoever with 2 Master Enslavers that I was hoping would have been able to deal with an army of Ulm national troops, and enough Astral mages to deal with solo SC storm attempts. But then not too surprised Svarogia were the ones coughing up the VP's, since as far as I could tell the nation was just an illusion of strength built on wet tissue paper. And I'm very certain Ulm or Van could have walked through Svarogia with ease at the point I joined the frey. (and even when I left they were no match for the top two)

[Executor]

Thanks everyone.

Personally, I think you play too cautiously WL. That's something that stuck with me from our former games. I watched every single one of your battle from turn 30 onward. Actually i watched the entire map for quite some time. I had a few dozen crystal orbs and a very extensive scout/spy system going. There was nothing I didn't see.
Also monitoring the rest helped identify you too.

Valerius, apart from the Forge, which I think is the biggest problem, I also would blessing of steel too powerful. A handful of flail infantry had no problem dealing with indea 9 from the start under blessings of steel. Having a 24 protection troop is too much from start I think.
That small amount of diversity with smiths (20% A/S/F) is huge too. Not that I'd suggest removing it, it just opens up a load of new options. New forging possibilities and communions mostly (either with s smiths or trough matrixes).
In any case I'd say Ulm is one of the best MA nation, if not all era nations.

mockingbird, god damn I hated you dude. All I wanted was those two slots for global spells. I just couldn't figure out a way to kill your pretender not to mention breach the fort. It would have taken me a hundred gate cleavers.

Calahan, I noticed instantly that a new player had taken over Svarogia. You even got me scared there for a moment but then I realized there wasn't anything really dangerous in your possession.
As to how Svarogia fell and how I obtained the 3 or rather 4 last VPs;
Shiny cap was the first to go. It was rather easy to take as Shiny had most of his troops in the adjacent fort.

The second fort, Eriu, fell to about 500 teleported troops (gate stone and astral travel) and a few mages and a SC. There was nothing in the fort to protect it and no troops near so it was easy taking.
The other Svarogia fort was Man, which fell to troops, commanders, mages, thugs and SCs. Not too large an army though and it was a tough battle too. Could have lost that one.
The third fort for the win was Al Nadin (C'tis). There was no chance in hell any army could have protected that fort. I had just too many stuff in that army.

And the fail safe capital was Bandar Log. (Van) Also a heck of a lot of stuff in it.

Curious Yellow, and there I was actually thinking on joining the war on your side until Shiny attacked me. Well, rather tried to sneak in troops into my lands which resulted in me attacking him. I even gave him a turns change to withdrew the troops but he moved them further in.

Actually, the only nation I attacked in this game was TC. And that was a hilarious war. I attack TC, Ashdod joins in from the other side and grabs a few provinces. Than Ashdod completly ignores TC and attacks me while I'm still in was with TC. (Note that TC is right in the middle of us). And we spend the next 15 turns fighting around and over TC until I managed to kill him off eventually with superior research.

WL, as per that battle, I didn't expect you to have that many (hidden) stuff there. Especially after losing those Treants and some other stuff the turn before I think?
Anyway, it was a nice battle, and you won it but I think you actually suffered more loses from it than me.

I'd kinda like an underdog nation in the next game.

[Calahan]

Originally Posted by Executor

I also would blessing of steel too powerful. A handful of flail infantry had no problem dealing with indea 9 from the start under blessings of steel. Having a 24 protection troop is too much from start I think.




Calahan, I noticed instantly that a new player had taken over Svarogia. You even got me scared there for a moment but then I realized there wasn't anything really dangerous in your possession.
As to how Svarogia fell and how I obtained the 3 or rather 4 last VPs;
Shiny cap was the first to go. It was rather easy to take as Shiny had most of his troops in the adjacent fort.




The second fort, Eriu, fell to about 500 teleported troops (gate stone and astral travel) and a few mages and a SC. There was nothing in the fort to protect it and no troops near so it was easy taking.
The other Svarogia fort was Man, which fell to troops, commanders, mages, thugs and SCs. Not too large an army though and it was a tough battle too. Could have lost that one.
The third fort for the win was Al Nadin (C'tis). There was no chance in hell any army could have protected that fort. I had just too many stuff in that army.

Yeah, the Blessing of Iron spell is another misjudged addition IMO. Any new spell that adds battlefield wide buffs has to be added with /extreme/ caution due to the huge force multiplying effect it can instantly have. But to add such spells from turn 1 is just a balance breakingly bad idea IMO. At least make these spell require some fecking reaserch if they are staying (and I hope they're not personally, as adding national battlefield wide buff spells is not a good way to go for any nation), and cost some gems to cast (such as Kailasa's national Quickness spell).



I was wondering why Shiny had that mass stock of troops (vamps mainly) next to their cap? Was there any purpose for that you know?



So did Svar send nothing to defend those VP forts? Did you see no sign of the Master Enslavers? No sign of the Grend Prophet via the Boots of Planes I pinched? No mass arrivals of any A2 cap mages? Nothing at all showed up? No Demon armies? No nothing? How sad

[Valerius]

Originally Posted by Executor

Valerius, apart from the Forge, which I think is the biggest problem, I also would blessing of steel too powerful. A handful of flail infantry had no problem dealing with indea 9 from the start under blessings of steel. Having a 24 protection troop is too much from start I think.
That small amount of diversity with smiths (20% A/S/F) is huge too. Not that I'd suggest removing it, it just opens up a load of new options. New forging possibilities and communions mostly (either with s smiths or trough matrixes).
In any case I'd say Ulm is one of the best MA nation, if not all era nations.

Originally Posted by Calahan

Yeah, the Blessing of Iron spell is another misjudged addition IMO. Any new spell that adds battlefield wide buffs has to be added with /extreme/ caution due to the huge force multiplying effect it can instantly have. But to add such spells from turn 1 is just a balance breakingly bad idea IMO. At least make these spell require some fecking reaserch if they are staying (and I hope they're not personally, as adding national battlefield wide buff spells is not a good way to go for any nation), and cost some gems to cast (such as Kailasa's national Quickness spell).

Along the lines of having spells available from turn 1 what about the "Iron Fears Not x" elemental resistance spells? Having them available from turn 1 seems too much. It's a bit like awe on Ri/Tuatha - later in the game this wouldn't be a problem but from turn 1...

I agree that the better magic diversity is a big deal but worth keeping.

It's also occurred to me that because of the way forging costs round Ulm comes out ahead with the removal of hammers when it comes to inexpensive items because their forging costs don't go up by as much as other nations. For instance, without hammers 5 gem items increase by 1 gem for Ulm but 2 gems for non-forge bonus nations, which is a relative advantage for Ulm.

Btw, Exec, how much did you use Iron Angels?

I think this is a very useful game to provide feedback on 1.92 changes.

Originally Posted by Executor

I'd kinda like an underdog nation in the next game.

Cripple RAND! Only, one of the successes of CBM is I don't know how many obviously weak nations there are anymore (not that all of the Cripple Fight eligible nations were weak to begin with).