Accuracy values for the main guns - MBT's.

[Mobhack]

We will be having a look at this, but what Ed said in the quotation is very true - you also need to look at the other inter-related values used (such as range finder and fire control).

Cheers
Andy

[JaM]

I dont forgeting FC and Rangefinder. For example if you have a T80UM tank (Crew exp 90)with FC 40 and RF 22(ACC13), you will have better accuracy at longer ranges than M1A1 tank (FC 40,RF22,ACC11 with same crew exp 90),but in reality M1A1 will be much accurate with its ammo such as M829A2 (L/D 30:1) over Russian BM-32,42 rounds (L/D 13:1-15:1).
Accuracy of ammunition is a key factor, that cant be ignored.Much more important than lenght of gun, and is a best measure of technology, gun that can handle those long rods are far superior to those that are not able to fire them. Shorter and more robust rod, the worst accuracy it has over longer distance.First soviet APFSDS rounds were 43-47mm L/D 10:1, their accuracy was bad at ranges bigger than 1500m.

[JaM]

A the other side, i like more your values than those in original SSI Steel Panthers 2. In SSI OOB 120mm smothbore guns had accuracy over 35,125mm guns 25 (same as 105mm)Your lower values are good, the only problem with them that weapons are not modeled correctly. Lenght of gun is not good variable for accuracy of smothbore guns. It has much more to do with kinetic energy than accuracy.My suggested values for tank gun accuracy are:

L/D Value
10.........................11
15.........................12
20.........................13
25.........................14
30.........................15
35 and more........ 16

I reworked most of OOB with those values. Those values dont change much, as those values dont make big difference to your values, but they make older guns( with old ammo ) less accurate than modern guns over longer range as rangefinder and firecontrol value make all guns to have accuracy to 1200-1600m over 90%.With this you should see difference between same tanks with different ammunition,(like T-64B in Russian OOB, T-64B with BM-29 from 1983 will have lower accuracy than same T-64B with BM-42M in 1998 or M1A1 from 1987 with M829 will be less accurate than M1A1 from 2003 armed with M829A2)

[JaM]

link for L/D values of most of soviet APFSDS rounds :
http://armor.kiev.ua/fofanov/Tanks/ARM/apfsds/ammo.html

[Fabfire]

JaM said:
yes,i will post them, yust need to translate them to english,tomorow

Thank you. I really appreciate it.

[Fabfire]

Mobhack said:
We will be having a look at this, but what Ed said in the quotation is very true - you also need to look at the other inter-related values used (such as range finder and fire control).

Cheers
Andy

Thank you. I really think this issue deserves it. I am well aware of the effects of the FCS, but what we are discussing here is the raw performance of the tank guns, in terms of accuracy. JaM really has a point when he makes a link between accuracy and the ammunition used.

Best regards, and thank you for your efforts in providing us with the best SP version ever. I have just received my CD (version 1.012), works like a charm and the improvements are terrific. I strongly reccomend everyone to buy the CD version. It's worth every cent.

[Alpha]

http://www.rheinmetall-detec.com/ind...1454&action=pd

http://www.defense-update.com/products/digits/120ke.htm

notice that ammo is almost as important as the gun itself!

[Fabfire]

I just finished a complete OOBS update of the 120mm tank gun accuracy. The 120mm L/44 goes from 11 to 14 or 15, depending on the ammunition used (APFSDS) The 120mm L/55 went from 14 to 16. Also modified the front armor (turret only) of the M1A2 SEP Abrams and Leopard 2A6 and A6EX.

The modified OOBS are available for download at my WinSPMBT page, and the zip version attached in this post.

As with any OOB dealing with modern MBT data, the values used reflect only my personal estimative - so use them at your own risk... Anyway, I think those modifications enhanced gameplay, and are well within the overall WinSPMBT TO&E concept.

[DRG]

We've already done our own modification to smoothbore gun accuracy but expanded that to include Russian derived guns as well as all nations using the "krupp" 120mm gun. When making adjustments like this all nations have to be taken into consideration. The Accuracy number has only a limited effect on the to-hit %. Things like crew skill and FC and RF have more influence but we have taken all these guns into consideration and made modifications to a very large number of OOB's

Don

[scJazz]

I don't suppose you would care to divulge the formula for to-hit%??? I'm slightly curious but mostly I raise the question so that everyone can see just how teeny the ACC value is in relation to the-whole-situation.