My Final Verdict (until the next patch, that is...)

[Jochen Schmidt]

The potential of this game rocks!!!!

I play 5 days now one game (even by knowing all the Ai-flaws) and i´m still impressed about the depth of this game - but, if the AI would be "finished" the game would be a hammer. (i hope that MM will improve the AI as promised)

Greetings to all

Jochen

[Commander G]

I think the game is great for multi-player email play, which is why I bought it. I can play one turn a day at my own leasure, I don't have to connect the same time as all the other players. The simultaneous play mode beats turn based games where players send the game file around in a circle with several days between turns.

What I would like to see is more information in simultaneous mode so I can figure out why I lost or won a battle. I have to run a simulation and guess the enemies strategy to figure out what may have gone wrong. CNN news reports on wars give the public more information than SEIV gives to a race's emperor.

As far as the AI goes, I really don't care that they are rather poor. They are basically there to help me test race designs before I employ them against human players. I suppose they could make the AIs tougher if they cheated like they do in Stars (even there, it is boring to play the AIs once you play the game a few times).

Where this game excells over Stars is in the simplification of managing ones economy and the political interface for treatings, trade and the like. Stars Genesis Supernova (or whatever they currently call it), sounds like it will compete with SEIV, if they ever stop adding functionality and just get it down and leave the ideas as future patch enhancements.

I give Malfador Machinations this to their credit: They finished the game so it could be released while leaving the door open to add some really need stuff in an on going fashion. They now have a user base who will help them(or should I say him - one designer/programmer in the credits) come up with new ideas.

[Tampa_Gamer]

I also agree with the original poster. I did some extensive research over the weekend into the AI files and how they are interacting with my ver 1.00 mod. I am in the process of cleaning up my notes and putting them into my "SE4 Anaylsis.xls" spreadsheet that I posted on the scenario/mod board two weeks ago. I plan to update this spreadsheet as I find out more. One of the more interesting facts is that the AI_Research files for many races does not research a tremendous amount of items that human players would not do without. Perhaps this is b/c the existing AI hard code cannot handle some decisions??? Anyway, it would be helpful for everyone to compare notes on how/what they are specifically tweaking in the AI files even if it is just a readme.txt file posted.

[jowe01]

Well, first of all, the AIs in Stars! do not cheat. However, they are REALLY deplorable adversaries. Nevertheless, Stars! is meant to be a multiplayer game and has the necessary functionalities (e.g. battleviewer). SE4 is basically a single player game so far, and as such, I have to say I am rather disappointed with the AI so far (though it does perform some basics rather well). After easily beating the AI three times in a row on highest difficulty and with maximum AI advantages, I feel I must share my grief with you on this message board (and maybe with Aaron who might read this and decide to fix some of it ?).

Though I also feel that SE4 is a great game as far as the general concept and its diversity are concerned, it lacks heavily in terms of challenge. Given that it is poor as a multiplayer experience because its most interesting part, the battles, cannot be played tactically and there is not even a battleviewer, the gamer will usually find himself plotted against the AIs. But alas, the latter do not really represent a challenge, even if the human player does some role-playing and does not use its option to his maximum advantage. What's wrong with the AI ? :

It is a sissy! The AIs are too treaty happy and do not pursue their goals as they should. I do find it very suitable, that AIs enter into treaties with you, however, they do not sufficiently defend their interests while we are allied. My ships enter their borders, I establish colonies in their space, I attack their other allies… all these things should lead to higher anger levels and thus finally to the end of the treaty. I do not find these elements in the AI anger file. The AI anger file should be extended, maybe the whole algorithm should be revised.

It has Alzheimer ! The AI forgets everything. It time and again runs into my minefields and never sends a sweeper. It does not seem to remember my fleet concentration ("Hey, what are those 10 cruisers, 2 carriers and 3 troop transports doing in the black hole system on my border. Mmmh, never mind, probably only on a Sunday afternoon walk." ) It does not learn from its defeats but continues attacking the same superior fleet with single ships. The AI should get some kind of memory, remembering "dangerous areas", "potential attack fleets", etc.. It also should simulate every battle in advance. I am not saying it should cheat, but its simulation should be based on know designs and components (given the known tech levels of my human adversary, how would I, the AI, build those battlecruisers ?).

It did not take its "Lebertran". At least it has a serious problem focussing on a strategy. That is to say, it does not have a strategy. Its fleet rushes from one part of its empire to the other and never follow through an offensive. Last time, 5 AI battleships entered my homesystem (I did not worry their approach, thought they were on a Sunday afternoon walk), attacked the nearest colony, annihilated the 34 million people on the planet and then…withdrew, without molesting my undefended homeworld. Things like these happen all the time. The AI should fix some priority strategic targets and then follow through on them. Secondary threats and opportunities should either be ignored or be met with secondary fleets. Major threats and opportunities (like my undefended homeworld) should however lead to a temporary change in strategy.

It did not watch the first Star Wars trilogy. Jesus, it does not realize that fighters are the ultimate attack weapon if the big, bad death star is not properly equipped with point defense canon. My complain is actually twofold:
Firstly, the AI does not properly react to the human adversary using lots of fighters. Lately, one of my light carriers single-handedly defeated 7 AI battleships (on tactical). With only one point defense canon, they could not take down sufficient fighters before they were blown into space dust. Here the AI should adapt its design. If the human adversary continuously uses large Groups of fighters, more point defense canons should be included on the standard design or the AI should build anti-fighter ships (with lots of PD and emissive armor). In that context, could anybody provide an explanation of the Default_AI_DesignCreation.txt file ? I do not understand what a lot of those entries mean.
Secondly, the AI does not seem to use fighters sufficiently to make advantage of their enormous potential. It should be much more biased in that direction. This point can be extended to other powerful defensive, offensive and economic means: why does the AI never use minesweepers? Why does it not lay more mines itself ? Why does it not build dedicated, cloaked surprise fleets (but mixes cloaked with uncloaked ships) Has anybody ever seen the AI build a ringworld ? etc., etc. …

It has a suicidal tendency. Very often, they AI sends single ships within the reach of my fleets, which never stand a chance against my forces. This obviously is an invitation to attack them and thus take the out one by one. Not very smart…

O.k., sorry for the long post, but I had to share these grievance with you. Now if anybody wants to take my place on the couch…

[seldon99]

Jowe

Thanks for your post you saved me a lot of time and some frustration. If you are giving the computer maxiumum advantage and still beating it. I guess it is pretty hopeless.

One of the best things about MOO2 and Alpha Centauri is that on the toughest levels, I don't always win. Now at some point victory in those games becomes inevitable and the mopping up operation is a bit dull, but the beginning and middle games are fun.

I bought this game partly due to the reviews, and a lot because I want to support Indy developers and publishers. I was so impressed with Combat Mission: Overlord I figured I should these guys a shot.

Please, Please ignore the requests for more features, and make the AI better. I don't care if the AI cheats a bit, I want a good single player game.

[Mephisto]

The AI needs some serious tweaking IMHO.
In the meantime I have modified many of the AI files. I will post it to the MOD-section in the near future (maybe today).

What have I done?

First of all, I did NOT change any components.

I did change what the AI is building in terms of ships and units in numbers and designs.

I altered the research for the AI so it will research any tech that the Ai is using (i.e. fighters but not ring worlds).

I heavyly altered ship design for the AI.
First of all, it now designs defense ships (and so will defend itself as this design is needed for the defense plans of the AI - at least in SE3...).

Second, it will use quantum reactors, ECM and ECCM.

Third, it will use 2x to 3x more PDCs.

It will never use a master computer. Sorry guys, but the AI does always build a ship with bridge ect so there is no reason to include a mc. This is - as it seems - hard-coded.

Philipp

[DirectorTsaarx]

Another mod you might want to make in the AI files is changing the "Turns to Wait until next attack" variable in the "AI_Settings" file (there's a unique Version for each race, plus the default). In every settings file I checked, this value was set to 6! Which I interpret to mean the AI waits 6 turns between attacks on any given target. Personally, I've been known to attack the same target three or four times in the same turn (generally when trying to glass an enemy planet).

One could probably also modify the "Get Angry over colonizable planets" and "Percentage to consider as attack locations" settings in the AI_Settings file as well.

Just my two centi-credits' worth!

[Mephisto]

My Mod should be available now in the mod section. Please give me some feedback.

[Tampa_Gamer]

Thanks for posting your mod Mephisto, I will compare it to what I have done so far. Perhaps there are enough people out there interested in single play (and with a little assistance with the mid-December patch) that we can put together a stellar AI (non-cheat).

[Mephisto]

I very much hope so. Drop me a line on your review, Tampa.

quote:

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Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer:
Thanks for posting your mod Mephisto, I will compare it to what I have done so far. Perhaps there are enough people out there interested in single play (and with a little assistance with the mid-December patch) that we can put together a stellar AI (non-cheat).

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