Machaka – a sorcerer’s fevered arachnophobia

[WraithLord]

The worst thing about the weak nations, Machaka included, is their reputation. Being considered weak they will almost always be targeted first. This is bad in normal games and compounded in RAND games where even diplo can't protect them.

[Belac]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

The worst thing about the weak nations, Machaka included, is their reputation. Being considered weak they will almost always be targeted first. This is bad in normal games and compounded in RAND games where even diplo can't protect them.

That is very true. Nothing helps you win like fighting on your own terms.

[thejeff]

Even without GoH or the Chalice, neither of which can be guaranteed in any serious MP game, Tartarians are feasible. Enough come without Feeblemind to be useful. Machaka has good Death, though they will need to bootstrap up to Tartarian summoning level and they've got good enough Nature for GoR.
If they can get, from Indy mages, trading, or a pretender a Moonvine Bracelet, they could cast GoH, but keeping it up is trickier.
That, plus possible elemental (Fire/Earth) royalty, is an endgame.

Isn't everyone without national SCs in roughly the same situation? Except many have more trouble getting into Death and Nature in the first place.
With clams gone, Wish is much less common and usually relies on a pretender anyway. Racing for the Blood uniques is the other real choice.

[BigDaddy]

I don't think Machaka is weak mid-game, but the player needs to plan for when they'll get a spell to be getting mages to the front lines to cast it. They don't tele or trapeze, so just plan ahead. These mages are tough and they have good combat paths. Or, you could probably just go with banefire archers, which will kill most stuff just like sending a mage for while. Buys a little time.

[WraithLord]

I wonder what are Machaka's MP statistics. Win/lose ratio for example...

[BigDaddy]

And their PD is kinda crappy at early game income levels, so they can't make a good trap easily. Not that you couldn't just get some evo right quick and slaughter an army from behind spiders...

[WraithLord]

yeah, all the evoc sounds great in theory. in practice it's bad. Yes, your great mages make up for your crappy units (excluding spiders) when marching with the troops but then your research will take a hit making you seem all the more the inviting target. An ideal start game is made of roughly the same set of objectives:
-> research, most of your early game mage time goes here
-> lands, ideally you should get them with armies/pretender
-> castles

There are some exceptions to that rule but Machaka is not one of them and it has a rough time getting a good start mainly due to it's reputation.

[BigDaddy]

I was talking about a trap. The kind where they enemy comes in, and you just hit em with the mages real quick. Blood rocks for this, because even at lvl 1, your mages can summon ungodly hoards of imps in very early turns. Of course, blood nations don't really get rushed, except by new players...

Anyway, I've done a trap before, if you can break their spear tip off, you can often take their stuff.

[Jarkko]

Machakan PD is ultra-crap, which means they are very vulnerable to raiders. Nations with flyers or stealthers can practically overrun Machaka in one turn if that is the opening move in a war. I remember a game with Pans where even 11 Harpies (a harpy commander with 10 harpies) took several provinces on first turn I attacked (plus the stealthers and Call of the Wilds I cast on same turn, in addition to the frontal attack who targeted the strong points (and in which I took a crapton of damage against spiders)). You know the PD is *bad* when even a few Harpies eat your defenders without a sweat.

Machaka does great when they are the one attacking. Everybody knows this. But after the first year, before the excellent evocations are available and their forces are still all spread out, they are very weak. This, I would presume, is when they get targeted. Nobody wants an offensive monster as their neighbour.

Originally Posted by thejeff

Even Isn't everyone without national SCs in roughly the same situation?

MA Pangaea, which has pretty similar magic as Machaka has and has no national summons, is *much* more stronger in end game. The Pans first of all have loads of more HP than the Machakan sorcerors (they laugh at things like Earthquake), and Pangaea has great cheap thugs (with some minor equipment) who can wield SC killing gear. And yet, the real killer IMO is Life for Life, a couple Pans casting that destroys basically anything (excpet large armies of course, but Pangaea has lots of options against armies); Life for Life has Range 100, precision 100, 40+ AN irrestible damage, and that says "SC killer" to me. Every single Pan can cast Life for Life (at least if they cast Hellpower first).

Machaka needs some similar niche for end game. Sadly I have not figured out what that niche is.

[BigDaddy]

They can't even find achaisic record. With Pythium, I've used a pretender with completely different paths than the awesome locals, and he operated almost autonomously, summoning his group of mages and they in turned summoned stuff. But Machaka doesn't get pearls. You must be able to sort something out, but the spiders and hoplite don't cut it against demons and other summoned units and SCs. I don't know how to use a pretender in the endgame to save a nation if they can't get gems. If they can get gems they can summon summoners. Lead time lags a bit on getting offensive compared to other option, but ultimately you spend a lot of gems. I admittedly haven't used this in technique in MP or even 2 player.