OT: Starcraft II and Elemental

[NTJedi]

Elemental BETA4 Review: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
The Good:
1) Extensive modding will allow the game to become more evolved, balanced, and even more game content such as items, spells, creatures, quests, etc.,.
2) Good Diplomacy in the game for AI and human players
3) Randomly generated worlds where very rare technologies, creatures and resources will only appear in some games.
4) Custom design of sovereign and rumor is the final version will allow custom design of your nation.

The Bad:
1) The map editor was half broken thus the final version being released will not have much beta testing. It seems the map editor was designed by someone who's never used map editors... so creating a large terrain area is time consuming, no method for editing existing stuff placed on maps, single letters used for resources,creatures, etc., instead of an actual name/image, no method to assign creatures/buildings to a player, and so on and so on.
2) No 64Bit version... it's been tossed on the shelf for "later". This means limited map size until who knows.
3) Races/Nations are all human... some with different colored skin. I really didn't recognize any personality/behavior differences so all opponents are just clones of each other.
4) The community provided many topics of advice, but I can't seem to locate any ideas which were actually merged into the game. The Elemental ideas forums is a treasure trove of creativity and the BETA4 seems to only have basics of a game included many which copy a civilization game.

The Ugly:
1) Multiplayer requires an umbilical cord thru the internet into Stardock. Stardock developers are calling this LAN gaming which has stirred a huge argument of complaints from multiplayer gamers. The same as Gal_Civ_2 the multiplayer complaints will be generating some of the largest threads. More here: http://forums.elementalgame.com/390801
2) The BETA4 had major bugs such as saved games not loading, crash to desktop bugs, brain dead AI opponents, and heavy memory/performance trouble. I'm sure many of these will be fixed, but like all previous version releases I expect some major game breaking bugs in the official released version.

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Overall I'm somewhat disappointed\bored with the gameplay and battles. No stealth, no black markets, most terrain has no difference on the map, quests are basic, races(all_human) with very minor differences, not much spell creativity/uniqueness, battles lack excitement, and its lacking real character skills such as druids, clerics, assassins, etc., . The battle for good multiplayer seems like a losing battle.
I believe the game can evolve into something great by the community because of the modding.

[LDiCesare]

I'm not that confident about modding.
I'm used to modding games like Call to Power 2 and Civ IV, so I'm a bit spoiled, but the lack of a programming language (python was touted early on) will certainly hurt. Modding the user interface for instance doesn't seem possible, nor is modding a map script. It will be possible to mod new races, techs, and probably spells and effects, though, but I still think EWOM modding will fall short of my initial expectations.

I think there are 2 main issues in the beta which make the game unenjoyable/unplayable:
-Brain dead AI. I'm quite confident there, as Brad Wardell will take his time, but turn it into something challengin. Unfortunately, this may be at the cost of gameplay/variability/breadth of strategies available.
-Lack of army management UI. It's not possible to group 2 units outside cities and have them work as a single army. This has been the case from the first beta, and not fixed yet. I hope they change it, or make sure it can work seemlessly if it's supposed to work, but as it stands, this problem alone would make the game unplayable.

[HoneyBadger]

I don't have a whole lot of faith in Stardock. GalCiv2 was (for me, anyway) unplayably buggy, even after fully patched (BSOD every single game, and very poor customer service/little help from the boards), and the bits I could play, were extremely and obviously (to the point of Stardock outright stating the fact) reminiscent in flavor to the Lord of the Rings.

Tolkien in space? Wha?

And trying to get the game to run on a brand new, cutting edge computer, was just more problem, since the vaunted "downloadable game" feature has been moved to an indecypherable/extremely difficult to use download site, with enough distracting advertizements on it to choke the Las Vegas strip.

Compounding that was the game's (entirely unwanted and, to me, rather distasteful) simplistic combat system (boiled down to, and again described as, paper-rock-scissors...in space!!!), and even more simplistic alignment system, ala early stoneage basic D&D. Frankly, both of those elements are the opposite of something I'd ever want in a science fiction game. I barely fathom the purpose of an alignment system in a fantasy game, as it is, and science fiction battles should be all about ever heightening levels of complexity.

Considering that they're basing Elemental on Master of Magic, another old as dirt game (although undeniably a beloved classic, and one of my favorite games), and looking back on their attempt at something comparable to Master of Orion, I'm extremely wary here. Nobody in their right mind should be trying to reinvent the so very worn fantasy wheel... Innovate or get out of the way. Coupled with the reports on their not easily accepting Beta feedback, it'll take a great deal of convincing before I shell out the cash for Elemental. I think I'd rather give the updated King's Bounty a try.

[WraithLord]

Save your money for IWs upcoming game. I do have faith in them since every single game they ever made was blessed with imagination and creativity and, most important, is fun to play.

Also, Disciples III is fun, as in aesthetically and musically pleasing while you cruise the campaign at 10% brain capacity during a hard day's evening.

[Torin]

I think that Gal Civ 2 its not an improvement over MOO2. In MOO2 you get complex battles and personal ship design that you actually witness and make some sense of.

In Gal Civ 2 you design your ship to get them in a "battle" wich is 2 battleships crashing against each other. One lives and one dies. Why would I care if it get laser beams or missile or a mix. You dont actually see the missiles and they dont make any difference.

[Doo]

GalCiv 2 is clearly a different game, 4X in space does not have to be MoO2 spin off. Having said that, GalCiv 2 was kinda boring after a while, too abstract.

I liked the Space Empires series for the tactical battles. Somewhere on the net is a blow by blow account of a MASSIVE SE IV: Carrier Battles mod battle. Picture the biggest movie space battle with massive numbers of tiny fighters buzzing around the battleships, it must have taken the player hours just to do that one battle.

[Knai]

I would consider Gratuitous Space Battles an example of a well designed space combat system, though it is only that. Put that in with an economy, research, and all that and you would have a solid space opera 4x game.

[Doo]

Originally Posted by Knai

I would consider Gratuitous Space Battles an example of a well designed space combat system, though it is only that. Put that in with an economy, research, and all that and you would have a solid space opera 4x game.

Yes, its like the combat in Dom 3 as a stand-alone game.

Well, Elemental: War of Magic version 1.0 is on my pc and I feel it is not too shabby. Not too shabby indeed. I was concerned but now feel better about it, this game has really good potential to be another Dom 3, ie still kicking years after its release.

I must say that I have not played much of it yet (sleep takes precedent and I'm pooped after work) and I'm a gamer who is forgiving and patient. Having said this I have not seen bugs of any kind, so basically its a 1.0 version, it works, possibly has some non-game breaking "quirks" and has spelling mistakes (like Dom 3 ). I believe the engine will allow for some great gaming experiences, as it stands I have not played enough to say either way if it has solid replayability on release but I am happy with what I have seen.

[WraithLord]

Doo, now that you have 1.0 can you relate to some of the questions below:
Do the races/nations feel unique and interesting?
Is the spell system interesting?
Is tactical battle interesting?
Are the races balanced by way of being more or less a copy of each other?

and bonus Q
Will Elemental ever support MP?

[onomastikon]

Originally Posted by WraithLord

Doo, now that you have 1.0 can you relate to some of the questions below:
Do the races/nations feel unique and interesting?
Is the spell system interesting?
Is tactical battle interesting?
Are the races balanced by way of being more or less a copy of each other?

and bonus Q
Will Elemental ever support MP?

From what I can see of the game now, I'd say "no" to most of your first questions, whereby I found the spell system to be somewhat interesting (if not as interesting as Dom3's), and "yes" to the last question. To disambiguate:
- No
- Somewhat
- No
- Yes

Bonus Question: Yes. (It should support MP now, but I havent played that yet). (What's the prize for the bonus Q? )