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Old July 5th, 2009, 11:26 AM
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Default More newbie questions II

Hello guys:

Got some more newbie questions. Recently got this game & have been reading through the manual & playing simultaneously. I’ve read up through the magic section of the manual around page 100, got a few more questions that I’m numbering below:

1) I’m trying to figure out how to use the slave matrix & crystal matrix magic items in battle. According to the description on page 279, it’s use is automatic. I created one crystal & 4 slave crystals, added the crystal to my pretender (POD using nation Maverni), and each of the 4 slaves were given to 3 generic recruited commanders & 1 generic recruited priest. According to the description on page 232 the fatigue should’ve been divided by 5 & distributed to the 4 slaves, also my POD should get 2 bonus levels for each path (for the duration of that particular battle I assume). I scripted my POD to cast communion master first to be sure the items were being used then (communion)(cast)(cast)(cast)(cast) .. I’m not familiar enough with all the spells at this point to know which is best to use over computer chosen casts .. I am very familiar with fatigue though because it seems that (virtually) every single battle my pretender is in he gets reduced to 100+ fatigue, once I even noted 160 fatigue! Several games my pretender died as a result (getting attacked etc..). I didn’t notice any difference when I used these matrix items, so I’m wondering what I’m doing wrong, or if I need to do (or set) something differently before using these things?

2) Crystal heart: Playing Maverni now several times I’ve noticed that my Druids tend to get these afflictions (because of the old age trait I’m presuming). The game I’m playing now I noticed the crystal heart (bottom p280) which is supposed to keep him alive after he dies (although at reduced ability). I constructed a crystal heart & gave it to one of my druids, several turns later I noted he had about 8 afflictions and a couple of turns later again he died anyway. I was under the impression the crystal heart would keep him alive after he died? If he still dies anyway, it doesn’t seem like a very useful item. Also relatedly: what things besides gift of health (very expensive at 50 gems) is there that can be done to remove afflictions from Maverni aging druids with afflictions? I think I’ve already lost like 6 to 8 druids already with another 5 currently having afflictions and ready to die. These guys are very expensive at 380 gold and I would like to keep them around longer if possible.

3) The move & patrol option page 69: I have this one particular province that one of my enemies (Caelum) is just bound and determined to take. The province has already changed hands like 5 times, finally I’ve been able to take it & build a fort. Caelum is still fixated on it and has been able to put it under siege like 4 times, I tried to send an army from an adjacent province using the move & patrol procedure described on page 69 (otherwise they don’t attack the besieging army apparently). After I left- clicked the movement (shows the movement arrow) for the commander there is no option for move & patrol when I click a second time. Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?

4) Do the computer AI’s generally declare war before attacking you, or is just dependent upon the particular AI nation? I’m wondering because I’ve expanded to the point where I’m bordering 5 AI nations (I’m at war with 2 who’ve declared war on me), but I don’t have enough troops to cover all the borders with the rest (I’ve got PD jacked up .. but I’m spending a lot on PD and it’s reducing my overall income).

5) Gem sites: I’ve been searching for gem sites because I’ve finally realized how extremely important gems are in this game. And I’ve found 3 or 4 using the old-man-in-the woods (apparently a special character only available to Maverni), but I’m wondering if this is common, uncommen, or am I missing a lot (of gemsites) .. roughly, what is the density of gem sites in this game? I don’t want cheats or anything, I just want to have some kind of idea what resources I should be devoting to searching. It seems like there are several global searching spells, but they’re very expensive from my POV, such as arcane probing (page 209) 2 gems just to search one province for only astral magic at level 9 seems very inefficient to me .. what are the bangs-per-buck for casting this spell? Will I find astral once in four casting attempts? IOW: Is it worthwhile or not?

6) This last question is just a general strategy question related to gems. I’ve realized how important gems are for many reasons: recruiting stronger monsters that don’t count against upkeep, creating magic items, armor, shields, etc, casting spells in battle by loading down your commander-MU’s with them before battle, and increasing paths via empowerment. After losing my pretender in all prior games, I’ve decided to make him stronger with magic via empowerment this time, so I’ve spent maybe between 200 and 300 gems boosting him 5 to 7 levels in different paths. So, I’ve spent maybe 60% of my gems on empowerment, 20% on magic items, and 20% on summoning type spells up to this point in the game (year 6 spring): I’m wondering if this is the most efficient approach or not? How do you guys divvy up your available gems and how many (on average) are you guys pulling from gem-sites by year 6? My gut tells me I’m not finding enough gems (or not expanding enough or both), but I don’t really know since I’m fairly new. I'm behind in comparison to some of the other AI's on the power graph.

7) Oh, one last question: Do you guys ever send any champions to the arena? The arena has cropped up in just about every game I’ve played. Three times I’ve sent my pretender to the arena and three times he got whacked. I decided to forego the arena in future games. What do you guys do as to the arena option & how do you maximize your survival against others with whom you’ve no idea of their ability? It seems pointless to send a weaker champion if a pretender can't even win.
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Old July 5th, 2009, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: More newbie questions II

7) If I don't have anyone worth sending, often I will send a diseased/crippled astral mage with a few gems if needed spamming horror mark.
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Old July 5th, 2009, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: More newbie questions II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal Kindel View Post
Hello guys:

Got some more newbie questions. Recently got this game & have been reading through the manual & playing simultaneously. I’ve read up through the magic section of the manual around page 100, got a few more questions that I’m numbering below:

1) I’m trying to figure out how to use the slave matrix & crystal matrix magic items in battle. According to the description on page 279, it’s use is automatic. I created one crystal & 4 slave crystals, added the crystal to my pretender (POD using nation Maverni), and each of the 4 slaves were given to 3 generic recruited commanders & 1 generic recruited priest.
Full stop. Commanders must have at least one point of magic to make use of those items.

Quote:
2) Crystal heart: Playing Maverni now several times I’ve noticed that my Druids tend to get these afflictions (because of the old age trait I’m presuming). The game I’m playing now I noticed the crystal heart (bottom p280) which is supposed to keep him alive after he dies (although at reduced ability). I constructed a crystal heart & gave it to one of my druids, several turns later I noted he had about 8 afflictions and a couple of turns later again he died anyway. I was under the impression the crystal heart would keep him alive after he died?
Combat deaths only.

Quote:
If he still dies anyway, it doesn’t seem like a very useful item. Also relatedly: what things besides gift of health (very expensive at 50 gems) is there that can be done to remove afflictions from Maverni aging druids with afflictions? I think I’ve already lost like 6 to 8 druids already with another 5 currently having afflictions and ready to die. These guys are very expensive at 380 gold and I would like to keep them around longer if possible.
Regeneration items will stop *death* from disease (by stopping the hit point loss, but not reversing it) but will not prevent them from getting more afflictions. Blood magic gives items which stop aging, but you'd still be risking afflictions if you're already old, I think.

Otherwise... the Chalice. Ordinary heal ability won't work on age-related afflictions. Growth scale also would have been good.

Quote:
3) The move & patrol option page 69: I have this one particular province that one of my enemies (Caelum) is just bound and determined to take. The province has already changed hands like 5 times, finally I’ve been able to take it & build a fort. Caelum is still fixated on it and has been able to put it under siege like 4 times, I tried to send an army from an adjacent province using the move & patrol procedure described on page 69 (otherwise they don’t attack the besieging army apparently). After I left- clicked the movement (shows the movement arrow) for the commander there is no option for move & patrol when I click a second time. Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?
If the enemies are already sieging, just use an ordinary move (which means don't use 'sneak', if you're using stealthy units, or 'teleport'; teleporters arrive *inside* the fort and don't attack the besiegers).

Quote:
4) Do the computer AI’s generally declare war before attacking you, or is just dependent upon the particular AI nation? I’m wondering because I’ve expanded to the point where I’m bordering 5 AI nations (I’m at war with 2 who’ve declared war on me), but I don’t have enough troops to cover all the borders with the rest (I’ve got PD jacked up .. but I’m spending a lot on PD and it’s reducing my overall income).
DoW + attack in same turn not unusual. War is heavily affected by their perception of relative strength, and whether you've attacked them.

Quote:
5) Gem sites: I’ve been searching for gem sites because I’ve finally realized how extremely important gems are in this game. And I’ve found 3 or 4 using the old-man-in-the woods (apparently a special character only available to Maverni), but I’m wondering if this is common, uncommen, or am I missing a lot (of gemsites) .. roughly, what is the density of gem sites in this game? I don’t want cheats or anything, I just want to have some kind of idea what resources I should be devoting to searching. It seems like there are several global searching spells, but they’re very expensive from my POV, such as arcane probing (page 209) 2 gems just to search one province for only astral magic at level 9 seems very inefficient to me .. what are the bangs-per-buck for casting this spell? Will I find astral once in four casting attempts? IOW: Is it worthwhile or not?
Judgment call. Magic site frequency can be set per game, as well as affected by pre-placements in map. Also depends on terrain. The search spells are nice if you already have some income and don't want to spend mage-time moving and searching (in the case of Astral, especially if even astral-2 mages are rare for you).


Quote:
6) This last question is just a general strategy question related to gems. I’ve realized how important gems are for many reasons: recruiting stronger monsters that don’t count against upkeep, creating magic items, armor, shields, etc, casting spells in battle by loading down your commander-MU’s with them before battle, and increasing paths via empowerment. After losing my pretender in all prior games, I’ve decided to make him stronger with magic via empowerment this time, so I’ve spent maybe between 200 and 300 gems boosting him 5 to 7 levels in different paths. So, I’ve spent maybe 60% of my gems on empowerment, 20% on magic items, and 20% on summoning type spells up to this point in the game (year 6 spring): I’m wondering if this is the most efficient approach or not?
*snip*

Magic items that boost paths are far cheaper, although they don't help if you haven't a single point in the desired path. Dwarven hammers are loved for the discount. Generically I'd bias towards summons, and (particularly against the AI) global enchantments and items, and very little to empowerment. That varies per nation; with MA Ulm, for instance, you wouldn't be known for having lots of terrifyingly powerful national summons, and you're not an obvious candidate for Gift of Health, either. With EA Mictlan, it's all about the bloody summons.

Quote:
7) Oh, one last question: Do you guys ever send any champions to the arena? The arena has cropped up in just about every game I’ve played. Three times I’ve sent my pretender to the arena and three times he got whacked. I decided to forego the arena in future games. What do you guys do as to the arena option & how do you maximize your survival against others with whom you’ve no idea of their ability? It seems pointless to send a weaker champion if a pretender can't even win.
I wouldn't, because I don't like having a cursed item that forces the winner to return (unless I had a champion without two hand slots, and who therefore couldn't get stuck with it). If I were going to use it, it'd probably be to abuse it (random oddball sent in to cast Curse, Horror Mark, cause afflictions, give a Lycantropos amulet, or so forth) rather than win. Unless the last winner was somebody I saw a reason and an opportunity to kill...
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Old July 5th, 2009, 12:33 PM

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Default Re: More newbie questions II

1) The slave matrices only actually work if placed on mages, so they will not be working on generic commanders. I agree this isn't at all clear.
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Old July 5th, 2009, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: More newbie questions II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal Kindel View Post
1) I’m trying to figure out how to use the slave matrix & crystal matrix magic items in battle. According to the description on page 279, it’s use is automatic. I created one crystal & 4 slave crystals, added the crystal to my pretender (POD using nation Maverni), and each of the 4 slaves were given to 3 generic recruited commanders & 1 generic recruited priest. According to the description on page 232 the fatigue should’ve been divided by 5 & distributed to the 4 slaves, also my POD should get 2 bonus levels for each path (for the duration of that particular battle I assume). I scripted my POD to cast communion master first to be sure the items were being used then (communion)(cast)(cast)(cast)(cast) .. I’m not familiar enough with all the spells at this point to know which is best to use over computer chosen casts .. I am very familiar with fatigue though because it seems that (virtually) every single battle my pretender is in he gets reduced to 100+ fatigue, once I even noted 160 fatigue! Several games my pretender died as a result (getting attacked etc..). I didn’t notice any difference when I used these matrix items, so I’m wondering what I’m doing wrong, or if I need to do (or set) something differently before using these things?
Level increase for Communions isn't shown. PoD is mostly used as combatant, not a caster. As for fatigue reducing - this should occur from your setup - even without your master casting Communion master first. By the way, spell effects would occur in castin oreder, so for Master to have higher level in first turn, he should be the last in commanders' list - or wait a round.
You can run the game with debug option to be sure - there is something on it in manual...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal Kindel View Post
2) Crystal heart: Playing Maverni now several times I’ve noticed that my Druids tend to get these afflictions (because of the old age trait I’m presuming). The game I’m playing now I noticed the crystal heart (bottom p280) which is supposed to keep him alive after he dies (although at reduced ability). I constructed a crystal heart & gave it to one of my druids, several turns later I noted he had about 8 afflictions and a couple of turns later again he died anyway. I was under the impression the crystal heart would keep him alive after he died? If he still dies anyway, it doesn’t seem like a very useful item. Also relatedly: what things besides gift of health (very expensive at 50 gems) is there that can be done to remove afflictions from Maverni aging druids with afflictions? I think I’ve already lost like 6 to 8 druids already with another 5 currently having afflictions and ready to die. These guys are very expensive at 380 gold and I would like to keep them around longer if possible.
Death from natural causes seems to be not affected. It remains useful in case of death in battle and - especially - assassinations. Afflictions can be healed by Gift of Health, The Chalice (artifact) or any commander with Healer ability. Faerie Queen is an example of such allowed for all factions (and you can Charm/Enslave, say, Arcoscephales priestesses). You can also reduce affliction and death rate by giving your Druids regenerative items (this includes Shroud of the Battle Saint if your Pretender has N4+), Growth rate - or changing their form to something not old. The latter can be achieved by Transformation or making them undead: there is a spell which transforms all who fall in battle into zombies - retaining all magic; there is also Twiceborn spell, but I seem to remember that you don't have Death on these guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal Kindel View Post
3) The move & patrol option page 69: I have this one particular province that one of my enemies (Caelum) is just bound and determined to take. The province has already changed hands like 5 times, finally I’ve been able to take it & build a fort. Caelum is still fixated on it and has been able to put it under siege like 4 times, I tried to send an army from an adjacent province using the move & patrol procedure described on page 69 (otherwise they don’t attack the besieging army apparently). After I left- clicked the movement (shows the movement arrow) for the commander there is no option for move & patrol when I click a second time. Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug?
Move&Patrol is a command for when you have all the province. If you are besieged, your army will attack besiegers on normal Move. The army inside the fortress must have Break Siege order to take part in battle. Units which teleport into a province will go inside the fortress. Stealthy units may go inside or out of besieged fortress as you wish - but they can't take part in the defence the turn they sneak in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal Kindel View Post
4) Do the computer AI’s generally declare war before attacking you, or is just dependent upon the particular AI nation? I’m wondering because I’ve expanded to the point where I’m bordering 5 AI nations (I’m at war with 2 who’ve declared war on me), but I don’t have enough troops to cover all the borders with the rest (I’ve got PD jacked up .. but I’m spending a lot on PD and it’s reducing my overall income).
It depends on something - I'm not sure on what. They can also declare a war, but not attack, particularly if you have large armies and PD on borders...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal Kindel View Post
5) Gem sites: I’ve been searching for gem sites because I’ve finally realized how extremely important gems are in this game. And I’ve found 3 or 4 using the old-man-in-the woods (apparently a special character only available to Maverni), but I’m wondering if this is common, uncommen, or am I missing a lot (of gemsites) .. roughly, what is the density of gem sites in this game? I don’t want cheats or anything, I just want to have some kind of idea what resources I should be devoting to searching. It seems like there are several global searching spells, but they’re very expensive from my POV, such as arcane probing (page 209) 2 gems just to search one province for only astral magic at level 9 seems very inefficient to me .. what are the bangs-per-buck for casting this spell? Will I find astral once in four casting attempts? IOW: Is it worthwhile or not?
It's imperative. There are some threads on the subjest, one of which had a downloadable Excel spreadsheet. There was also WraithLord's "knowledgebase". Also, density is partly determined by settings you choose when you start the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal Kindel View Post
6) This last question is just a general strategy question related to gems. I’ve realized how important gems are for many reasons: recruiting stronger monsters that don’t count against upkeep, creating magic items, armor, shields, etc, casting spells in battle by loading down your commander-MU’s with them before battle, and increasing paths via empowerment. After losing my pretender in all prior games, I’ve decided to make him stronger with magic via empowerment this time, so I’ve spent maybe between 200 and 300 gems boosting him 5 to 7 levels in different paths. So, I’ve spent maybe 60% of my gems on empowerment, 20% on magic items, and 20% on summoning type spells up to this point in the game (year 6 spring): I’m wondering if this is the most efficient approach or not? How do you guys divvy up your available gems and how many (on average) are you guys pulling from gem-sites by year 6? My gut tells me I’m not finding enough gems (or not expanding enough or both), but I don’t really know since I’m fairly new. I'm behind in comparison to some of the other AI's on the power graph.
You shouldn't make your Pretender the only strong mage. With some items your normal mages (plus independents & summons) can allow you most of necessary spells. Empower is quite useful if you can't make necessary levels for what you need to cast in other ways - but isn't needed if you can. As for Pretender, he may be quite strong even without any magic - try to use Wyrm with no magic and Dominion 9-10, for example. Later in the game you can summon other combat monsters to add to him or replace him. You'll also be able to use him as a combat caster with more effect - as you'll have stronger spells researched...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal Kindel View Post
7) Oh, one last question: Do you guys ever send any champions to the arena? The arena has cropped up in just about every game I’ve played. Three times I’ve sent my pretender to the arena and three times he got whacked. I decided to forego the arena in future games. What do you guys do as to the arena option & how do you maximize your survival against others with whom you’ve no idea of their ability? It seems pointless to send a weaker champion if a pretender can't even win.
From time to time. However, as the Champion gets a shining new trident which he can't then drop, it has a limited usability.
By the way - what is your Pretender in more detail? PoD is considered to be one of the strongest Pretenders, even though I personally don't like him...
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Old July 5th, 2009, 12:38 PM

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Default Re: More newbie questions II

6) Empowerment is actually something you want to use rarely, being as it's vastly expensive. I just used it in a game to get an air-1 mage to air-2. Previously I had no access to air-2, and having air-2 will allow me to (a) cast Auspex to remotely site search (the main reason), and (b) make boots of flying, which I like. So, to allow you to get access to a new path it is handy, but otherwise should be used sparingly. Maybe once or twice per game.

Empowering your pretender can be fun of course, so I wouldn't want to stop you if you're enjoying it.

Oh, and I think the remote site-searching spells are very worthwhile (hence wanting the air-2 mage). They can be frustrating of course, because you could cast them ten times without finding anything, but ultimately it pays off. Other people prefer to send mages around on foot. I think an OCDish tendency prevents me doing that, unless the mages have level 4 in paths, because I might be missing some sites (the hardest sites to find are level 4 so the level 9 search is slightly confusing). In any case, one way or another you want to search every province in your empire in every path you can, eventually. That does take some doing of course.
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Old July 7th, 2009, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: More newbie questions II

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corporal Kindel View Post
4)Do the computer AI’s generally declare war before attacking you, or is just dependent upon the particular AI nation?
Some computer AIs will occaisionally declare war before contact. (As in, you haven't even located any of their provinces yet, let alone done anything to them.)
Quote:
7) Do you guys ever send any champions to the arena? The arena has cropped up in just about every game I’ve played. Three times I’ve sent my pretender to the arena and three times he got whacked. I decided to forego the arena in future games. What do you guys do as to the arena option & how do you maximize your survival against others with whom you’ve no idea of their ability? It seems pointless to send a weaker champion if a pretender can't even win.
I only send a champion if I have someone available whom I don't have a more immediate use for, whom I think might be able to survive at least one duel. Watch the combat replays for the last arena challenge, and then try to think of countermeasures to what the winner used.
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Old July 11th, 2009, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: More newbie questions II

This is a bit OT, but is there a thread that addresses Death Blessings?

I'm testing it out in Sp and I'm amazed at its potency.

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Old July 11th, 2009, 04:37 PM

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Default Re: More newbie questions II

It is often discussed bwaha.

Your most likely candidates to find it will be midguard/utguard or the xheim;s.

Additionally, you can find some discussion in the mictlan threads, where there was discussion D/W vs F/W
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