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Old September 11th, 2021, 02:03 AM

Kiwikkiwik Kiwikkiwik is offline
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Default Ammunition discrepancies

Hello I picked up some discrepancies in ammunition loadouts

UK
Fletcher's book British battle tanks gives ammunition for the Valentines that differ from what the game has.
Unit 030 Valentine III.....game 79 book 62
Unit 032 Valentine XI.....game 60 book 46
Unit 365 Valentine III.....game 79 book 62
Unit 368 Valentine XI.....game 60 book 46
Unit 369 Valentine V......game 79 book 62
Unit 373 Valentine V......game 79 book 62
The other Valentines are correct.
Units 30, 369 and 373, though armed with 2 pdrs have HE ammunition allocated?

In game Lee has 50 75mm rounds and Grant has 65. Most references will give lee 46 and grant 80. see 24:30 in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu8NwLls7PY
and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_Lee

Chamberlains "British and American tanks of WW2" and Wiki give UK unit 43, 'archer' 39 shells, game has 52
Same reference gives UK unit 47, 'Sexton' a regulation standard ammunition loadout of 87 HE or Smoke and 18 AP, so 105. Game has just 98 HE. In game Canadian sexton gets 105 HE, 7 sabot, No AP.

The book "A15 Cruiser Mk.VI Crusader Tank A Technical History" by Knight and Fletchers "British Battle Tanks: British-made tanks of World War II" gives 6 pdr crusader A15 73 or 76 shells and 2 pdr 107 shells. Game has 55/65 and 110.
This site
http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.p...anks&Itemid=56
However gives units 010/008, 2 pdr gun version 130 shells and units 011/012/142/197/600, 6 prd version, 73 shells.
So not sure if 2 pdr crusader loadout is actually 107 or 130, differences may reflect different versions.
The same site gives unit 009, 'Crusader I-CS' 63 shells, Knight and Fletcher give 65, game has 45. Also 13 of the 15 tanks that carry wpn 35, '3in CSH' have been mistakenly given AP rounds, 3" Howitzer does not have an AP round only smoke and HE.

The Tank data appendices in Jentzs book "Tank combat in North Africa" gives the UK unit 298/596, 'Mk VIb' 200 rounds of .5 ammunition. Game gives it 120 bursts. So burst rate is 1.6 bullets per burst. German 20mm 222 gets 5 bullets per burst, surely 12.7mm vickers MG should fire more bullets per burst than 20mm gun? 5 bullets per burst gives vickers .5 24 bursts instead of 120.

Germany

Unit 979, 'sIG 33 Pz II' has 30 shells Spielberger in his book sturmgeshultz gives it 10. see also
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/n...pfwagen-ii-sf/

Unit 157, 'Panzerwerfer 42' game has 10 rockets, actually has 30, carries 2X10 reloads. see
https://weaponsystems.net/system/324-Panzerwerfer+42

Units 047/385/965 Marder III M in game has 27 shells. Jentzs Panzer Tracts No. 7-2 gives 38 shells, reference includes storage Diagram.

Units 956/957 RSO/PaK 40 in game has 25/28 shells. Jentzs Panzer Tracts No. 7-3 gives 42 shells. Gun tray has 7 below floor compartments each must hold 6 shells.

Units 159 and 862 SdKfz 250/7 GrW in game has 42 bombs Jentz in Panzer tracts 15-1 (250) gives it 66, with storage arrangement photos.
Units 163 and 575 SdKfz 251/2 GrW in game has 90 bombs Ludeke gives it 66. Jentzs Panzer Tracts No. 15-2 (251) agrees with 66 and gives it a crew of 8, game has crew of 4

Unit 510, 'JPz IV/70A' in game has 55 shells. Jentzs "Panzer Tracts No. 9-2" (JPz IV) gives 90 shells.
ETO Ordinance Technical Intelligence Bulletin No. 27 from Oct 44 mentions a captured German unit 004 "PzKw II Luchs" contained two clips (Magazines?) of Tungsten cored ammunition, game allocates no sabot to this vehicle.
Same reference gives German unit 507 "JPz IV/70V" 57 75mm shells, game has 55. Reference details storage provisions for the 57 rounds. Jentz gives 55 rounds storage but adds a ? to this number.

Jentz 1978 "Encyclopedia of German Tanks or World War Two" gives German units 969, 280, 19 and 18 PzKw 38 (t) 42 or 72 shells However in his later work of 2007 "Panzertracts No. 18 38t" he gives all models of 38t 90 shells. The later publication date and the fact that the panzertracts book is specifically about the 38t makes me think that 90 is the correct loadout, especially as 37mm ammunition is quite small.

Jentzs," Panzer tracts 13-1" 222
says 2cm tungsten core ammunition, (sabot) for the 222 was first issued in 11/40 game has 2/41. Jentz says game date is the date AHM clarified the "initial ammunition allotment" but goes on to say, "The 2cm Pzgr. Patr.40 had already been accepted into service in the Heer on 5 November 1940. This new order merely clarified distribution." the text also details the initial allocation which was for 222 900 rounds in total, 350 AP, 100 HE and 450 sabot AP40, 180 of these are carried on the vehicle. game has 18 HE, 9AP, 9 Sabot. Jentz's loadout translated into game terms would be 4 HE, 14 AP, 18 Sabot.

Units that could have 2cm sabot added are; 72 SdKfz 234/1, 383 SdKfz 250/9, 384 SdKfz 231 (8), 391 SdKfz 222, 832 SdKfz 251/17, 833 SdKfz 231 (6), 836 PzKw II F, 950 Aufklarer 38t and 951 Aufklarer 38t

Unit 832 SdKfz 251/17 in game has 70 bursts. Jentzs Panzer Tracts No. 15-3 (251) gives 600 shells, so bursts are 8.5 shells each, at 5 shells/burst like 222 should be 120 bursts.
Units 162/825 SdKfz 250/9 in game has 20 bursts. Jentzs Panzer Tracts No. 15-1 (250) gives 230 shells, so should be 23 bursts if firing at the same rate as 222.

Unit 141, 'Pillbox' receives 3.7cm sabot a little early in 1930.

10.5 lFh 18 had HEAT, units 721 and 870 could have HEAT added, same as Wespe already has.

Unit 315, 'Coastal Fort' has gun SK L/40 not 17cm K 18 as in game. SK L/40 has an AP shell. see
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_675-40_skc04.php
Site also has a chart for AP penetrations (from chart min penetration would be substantially better than 20) and gives loadout for weapon as 130, game has 100.

Unit 218, 'SdKfz 251 m PzB has 120 shells Ludkes German halftracks and Wheeled vehicles says 40 rounds were carried. Ludeke also says the Pzb was carried 'loose' as standard equipment in the 251/10, 251/5 and 251/7. confirmed by Jentz in Panzer tracts No. 15-2 (251).

Unit 426 SdKfz 221 sPzB in game has 90 shells. Jentzs Panzer Tracts No. 13-1 (221) gives 96 shells.

Japan
Courtesy of
Handbook of Japanese military forces 1944.
Wpn 219 70mm Type 92 FH has its AP ammunition correctly allocated when in a bunker but none of the other 5 units that have the weapon have any AP ammunition allocated.
Wpn 37 75mm Type 41 FH has a dedicated AP round. Only one of the three units (156/184/690) with this weapon receives 5 Sabot. None of the 3 units with this weapon receive any of this weapons HEAT rounds. see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_4...m_mountain_gun
Wpn 75mm Type 94 FH has a game AP round, but none is allocated to the two units that have the weapon.
Unit 054 10cm Type 91 FH has an AP shell, game gives 3 Sabot no AP.
Wpn 072 105mm Type92 FG has an AP shell but unit is off-board.
Wpns 79/80/81/104 150mm Guns all fire an AP Shell
see
http://ww2data.blogspot.com/2015/07/...tion-15cm.html
Wpn 79 is off-board, Wpn 80/81/104 have no AP not allocated,
As a guide to all the 150mm guns Wpn 79 150mm Type 96 Howitzer AP-HE penetrations, according to Military intelligence Divisions publication "Japanese tank and antitank warfare are";
250 yds 124mm
500 yds 119mm
750 yds 112mm
1000 yds 102mm

Unit 102 Type 4 Ho-Ro has wpn 080 not wpn 081.

I imagine that there was no shortage of Japanese AP and HEAT ammunition. I would suggest that it would be interesting to create formations using these guns but give them bigger allocations of AP and HEAT shells. Similar to what has been done for the Italians with "Improvisato CC" This makes sense as they had the same problem as the Italians, facing lots of Shermans with minimal AT resources.

The 37mm Ho-203 cannon as mounted in unit 76 and 287 has 15 shells not 10 as in the game. see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho-203_cannon

Italy
Handbook of enemy ammunition pamphlet 8 gives the wpn 35 100L17 Mod16/35 a HEAT munition. Wpn has HEAT pen value in game but no HEAT is allocated to the units (031/537) that have this weapon.

France
Unit 177 FCM Char 2C in game has 50 shells wiki gives it 124, as does tank encyclopedia
https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/france/fcm-2c.php
other sources say 150 not unlikely in a tank of this size.

75mm gun on char B1 (unit 008) and Char B1 Bis(unit 012) had 80 and 74 shells respectively, game gives B1 only 74. Wiki also says only 7 of these shells were AP, game has 14.
For these two tanks game gives 47mm gun 40 AP, 10 HE reference gives 30 AP 20 HE.
see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_B1

Unit 435 Char B1 ter never saw service prototypes not completed before fall of france.
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