Trading commanders, exploit or not?

[Zeldor]

I am trying to get a list of house rules for MP games, with things that should be banned [like Sickle farming, suiciding mages with Ankh etc], of course for game admins to decide it's usage.

So the question is - do you consider trading commanders via Charm as an exploit that spoils the game?

[Tollund]

Most definetly not. It's not only impossible to enforce such a rule, but it also implies that diplomacy and trading are not allowed in general. How does ond enforce this rule. Are no commanders allowed to be in provinces by themselves at all ever? Is the charm spell to be banned?

[rdonj]

No, I don't think it's an exploit. If you want to go through that much effort and coordination to pick up a commander from another player, go for it. Commanders are just another form of resource.

[thejeff]

I'd also say that the other things you list: Sickle farming and Ankh suicide aren't commonly considered exploits.

If you were planning on a game where many common borderline cases were banned, trading commanders might fit.

[Maerlande]

Suiciding mages with the ankh sounds pretty hard to enforce too. How do you tell if it's planned or just a regular fight? Sickle farming is much easier to spot. At least that's how it looks to me.

I don't think trading commanders with charm or enslave should be banned. Like rdonj said it's a big pain to do and the gain is not unbalanced. Each trades a commander. Not like sickle farming which is basically free death gems.

I only just discovered the anhk trick and I've been using that idea during regular fights. If I lose a few mages during a castle assault that's not an exploit. It's just sensible use of an artifact.

[Gandalf Parker]

Ive often suggested that there should be a list of standardized rules for MP games. Too many arguments break out where the gist of it is something along the lines of "everyone knows" when obviously everyone doesnt know or agree.

However I have also added that there will never, and should never, be just one. There should be a number of them. One single collection point for such rules would really help. Threads could refer to "and everything on Rule Set #4" and link to that site or thread. It would also help people who are starting games to remember items that they did want to ban from their game. Or at least cut way down on some of the pre-game conversations by being able to say "I browsed the rules list and considered everything some people ban".

To answer the initial question: No I dont think its an exploit. In fact its one of my favorite things to do. But I can see where it might be considered unfair in duels and such where the winner is expected to win based just on their own strategies without help from others.

Oh and added note: it IS possible to enforce such rules. If the game has logging switch turned on then the log file makes it fairly obvious. All the game admin has to do is setup an automated search for the things they have banned and check the hosting log each turn.

[Ink]

outside of conspiring with another player, I don't think either of those are exploits. If you go to _genuine_ battle with another player and have the Ankh and purposefully cast a spell to suicide your mages, so what? Any spell will probably be battlefield wide and something to which undead are immune (like Foul Vapors); as such is it simply a viable strategy for winning a battle too.

I in fact recall one GLORIOUS battle between me as LA Agartha and another player who was LA Pyth. Pyth was attacking me with overwhelming forces of Hydras, Elemental Royalty, and summoned creatures. I knew that Foul Vapors would also be cast. I took all the mages and troops I had into battle, and cast Life After Death, Heat from Hell, and Rigor Mortis. The reincarnated troops meant the Hydras had to mow twice as long (giving more time for fatigue to wear at them). The LAD also protected the mages, simply turning them into undeads as they fell to Foul Vapors and fatigue. In the end, all my troops died and almost all my mages fled, but two or three were passed out from fatigue and say stayed on the field. Fortunately, by that time every Hydra, mage, elemental, and summoned creature of Pyth's were also passed out, so the two sides just sat there, approaching death from fatigue. I literally had three soulless mages facing down an armada of Hydras and Elemental Royalty! Pyth autorouted. However, I had flown in an SC to the province they moved from (knowing this all would happen), that province was taken and so in the autorout, they all autodied. After the battle, all those mages remained as soulless mages (I had about 15 of them or something).

So, was that an exploit? or just a winning strategy?

[Psycho]

I wouldn't consider it an exploit. It is merely a different kind of trading after all.

The ankh thing, now when I have some experience with it, I would definitively consider an exploit. Maerlande and Ink, the ankh trick is not about saving your commanders, but about cheaply raising tons of undead. OTOH, Lanka, for example, once the research is done, can do the same with regular commanders, so against them maybe it's justified. I would like to see the ability removed from demons.

The sickle farming was not such a big deal with gem gens. Without them I think it should be banned from games.

[rdonj]

@Ink - It would be pretty damn hard to argue that properly using a spell is considered an exploit :P

@Gandalf - I don't think I'd trade mages with someone in a duel. Actually I don't think anyone would, what's the gain in trading with the only other player on the map? Your definition of duel is a bit odd . I'm sure that in a RAND game that would be considered cheating, but I don't think there's any other game type where that would be considered an exploit.

[Sombre]

Nah, commander trading isn't an exploit. Of course if the game is no diplo then it's against the rules.

I think sickle farming is probably an exploit, but it doesn't seem very degenerate. It could be that someone is able to do something really ridiculous with it, but no-one has so far to my knowledge.

Giving your commanders to another player (rather than trading) is also not an exploit, but could well be a total douche move if you're doing it to throw the game, or because of something someone did outside the game.