MP: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. Game Over. Supplicants Triumph!

[ano]

Not only that .. I haven't gotten a turn.

What do you mean? Connect to the server and download it. If email notifications are not set up by Gandalf for your email address which I doubt.

[ano]

As Septimius didn't appear since morning and considering the fact that situation is undecided and neither we nor Usurpers (and Atlantis) are waiting for him and not doing our turns, I ask that not 24 but 36h are added to the current turn if the rehost is still not considered (although the absolute majority wants it, not even speaking of game relative power, just quantity of people)

[Septimius Severus]

My position on the no rollback policy remains the same (would not change even if we all staled). Though I am sympathetic to Numahr, that is what the decision was.

Very simply though, I can only convey my understanding of how delays are handled via direct connect on Gandalf's server. It is an entirely manual process and I have no direct control of the server:

1. I receive a request from a player asking for a delay with enough lead time to allow me to receive the message and convey it to Gandalf (generally you'll want to allow something like 8 hours or more).

2. I convey the request asking for x hours to be added to the current turn to Gandalf.

3. Gandalf must then receive the message in time and then shut down the game. So if he gets a request for say an 8 hour delay, at the 40th hour of a 48 hour turn, the game must be stopped, the interval adjusted temporarily to 16 hours (8 hours left+8 hours added) and then the game is restarted.

4. After the turn hosts, the external timer will still show only 16 hours . So as soon as he is able to get to it, he must then adjust the timer back to 48 hours or whatever the current interval is. Gandalf's least complicated move would be to just reset it to the current interval (but this will of course result in extra time added to the game turn since there will generally be some time elapsed between when the game hosted and when he can get to it). To account for that time, he'd have to again adjust the timer downward, then wait for the next host, and adjust again, etc.

Now why Gandalf didn't get a chance to adjust the timer down to reflect the additional 8 hours and only the additional 8 hours (not an extra 48), I cannot tell you. But when I noticed it (Ano did as well, as I am sure every else looking at it did) I sent word to Gandalf to use the fatherland file timestamp and count 56 hours from then and adjust the timer accordingly.

In any event, the first delay request (for 8 hours) WAS honored. Gandalf says he did not receive another delay request in time to prevent a stale. And another 4 hours past the hosting time went by before the actual host. That is all I can and will say about it. Gandalf would really be able to tell you more.

I really am against further delays on the current turn at this point, but if absolutely necessary I will consider it. Because of this process, the game time will NOT be accurate when delays are processed. I do recall my mentioning some of my concerns with publishing an external timer. I don't really like it for direct connect games. The game already has a lenient hosting schedule to taking into account the team nature of the game. But even so, things are moving far to slow for my tastes. But that is only my opinion.

[ano]

This is unwise and unpleasant and will make the game much less fun from now on. At least for me. I'm really losing enthusiasm now. I'm sure the Usurpers may say the same.
But so be it, you are the emperor here and there's no democracy so we have to accept your decision. But we definitely want the delay I previously mentioned. 24h will be enough for us (Supplicants).

Actually, I said all I had to say above and I have nothing more to add. I'm just very surprised with such a stubbornness from admin side after the situation that was caused by improper admin actions. That is hard to understand especially considering the fact that most players are agree to rehost the turn.

But... Enough. I just made the conclusions I had to make.

p.s.

Very simply though, I can only convey my understanding of how delays are handled via direct connect on Gandalf's server. It is an entirely manual process and I have no direct control of the server
...

If you said this BEFORE this weird situation occurred, it could be understood. But you prefer to keep secret from the players. In everything. So explaining this now doesn't help the situation at all and doesn't help numahr who had no idea of this.

It should have been obvious that those extra 48 hours were far too long when only 8 hours was requested.

Maybe it should. Or maybe it shouldn't. People are used to trust the server because if server time may be changed occasionally then who should they trust? If server says 48h it means 48h. At least for people who play at llamaserver. And if 48h means 8h then each and every player who might have no time to monitor the game thread extensively should be privately notified of this. This is what the job of admin lies in. Not just keeping secret...

Well, once again. Enough. I'll try to keep silence on his point from now on.

[Septimius Severus]

Yes, I am aware I have to be a go-between between Gandalf who runs the server and players. I made the decision in consultation with Gandalf. The limitations of Gandalf's server are not my fault. I was rather pissed when I saw the extra 48 hours. But we are at the mercy of the server, Gandalf's math, his availability, and so on. Even still, I have to say I commend Gandalf for doing the best he can and giving us whatever we get. I am grateful for it, he's doing it for free and all voluntarily. It is not an entitlement. I can only tell you what I know. If it villifies me, oh well. That is the burden of admin that I have to take. Call me stubborn, perhaps, but I am not about to get into another roll back fest like last game. Too much time has already been wasted in my opinion, I'd like to get on with my turns (Agartha is just hitting its stride), but you are free to do as you wish.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

When I add fresh water tags they show up... Also.. I've looked at all 35 mountain provinces I have access to .. and found 1 mountain.

This hardly sounds like the change I requested.

Chris, this really does not sound right. Why would you see only 1 mountain province? Why would I see these and not you?

I am not sure if the server provides you with a temporary copy of the .map file or not. I do know that only the server needs a copy of the actual/final .map file used by the game. The players do not need it. But if you have a .map file on your system though for this game, e-mail me a copy and I will have a look at it. Perhaps you've got an earlier version on your system taken from the main post and this is overiding what the server might give/show you.

I believe I updated the .map file on the main post when I added the freshwater and mountain tags (which is only meant for testing purposes and probably should be deleted before beginning the game, if it is not automatically overridden), but I could be mistaken.

[Septimius Severus]

Just to get confirmation on the freshwater tags. One of the provinces where the freshwater terrain mask was added is province 7, near the Southwestern corner lake.

Gandalf, please open the server copy of the .map file and print for us here what you see on the line for the #terrain command for province 7. Lets put this issue to rest.

Thanks.

[Gandalf Parker]

#terrain 7 8

[Gandalf Parker]

If anyone has interest in far more discussion than it deserves on the subject of timers
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45813

[Numahr]

OK.
I can't say I find the decision very fair, but so be it. As Ano says, there is a decision-making process we ought to recognize whatever decision is made.

On the rationale that the game is going too slow hence the decision, I think one has to understand that there is a trade-off between team game and quickness, that we have to acknowledge.

Also I want to say that I am very thankful to Gandalf as well for his valuable contribution; and also to those players of the game who showed understanding of this weird situation and fair-play spirit

So now let's accept there was a tragic distortion of the time continuum, probably provoked by the energy unleashed by the One True God snizzing or something like this...