MP: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. Game Over. Supplicants Triumph!

[AlgaeNymph]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Yes the Usurpers did not play well.

Yes, thank you for reminding us yet again. This is why I don't want the archives deleted, so you can't hide how you treated us.

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

But even playing well there was not a thing we could have done to win that game.

So you constantly berated us for no good reason then?

Reality check, we are not you. We do not spend hours upon hours over every little detail as if we had nothing better to do. And if any of us made one mistake with the dozens of small ways you basically wanted to play the game for us you'd let us have it, while saying nothing about what we got right. You even try to micromanage people on other teams.

You've annoyed me to the point where I'm making it publicly known. Maybe I would have held my ire if you said "we didn't play well" instead of dumping it all on the rest of the team.

Oh, and good job leaving Squirreloid in the lurch for a month when you said it'd be a week.

*sigh*

Yes, I lost my temper, I don't want you feeling like you can freely badmouth us after how you treated us. I regret that I didn't act earlier, or constructively, but I needed to state my feelings.

[Septimius Severus]

The TAM style can have its advantages, especially for the fresher, greener noobs, while more experienced players or players desiring a more free style may feel rather confined. It does mean less ambiguity and uncertainty about what to do and how to do it though.

As an aside, I recently downloaded a copy of Daggerfall, that I've been wanting to delve into (retro-gaming). I rather enjoyed Morrowind, and I heard that Daggerfall (though the graphics are far outdated and less detailed) was even grander in scale.

I do love epic, expansive, or open ended and free form (non-linear) types of games. Games like the Elite series ( Frontier First Encounters), Mercenary, etc. And though it had its detractors, and was perhaps too ambitious, I also enjoyed the Battlecruiser series of games. Nothing like being able to command a ship or even a fleet of them, land and fly a shuttle through the atmosphere of various planets. You could then land, get into a vehicle and explore the planet surface, or get out and roam on foot. I recall you could even exit your spacecraft, jetpack from ship to ship, or even walk about on the outside of the hull of a massive ship.

Yea, I do/did enjoy the great strategic fun of a Warlords, Warcraft, Starcraft, C&C, etc, or even a simple game of chess, and appeciate the greater detail and intricate MM in games like the Space Empires Series (which attracted me to Shrapnel) and Dom3, but sometimes ya want to get free of constraints, or you want to try something different or take on a role. This is the great thing about mods, themes, scenario-like games, they let you go beyond the ordinary, or let you play the game the way you want to, not the way that someone tells you, you ought to play.

[Gandalf Parker]

I liked Daggerfall more than Morrowind.
Daggerfal was definitely a much grander scale, altho Morrowind made an effort to have more random to it.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by AlgaeNymph

Yes, thank you for reminding us yet again. This is why I don't want the archives deleted, so you can't hide how you treated us.

So you constantly berated us for no good reason then?

Reality check, we are not you. We do not spend hours upon hours over every little detail as if we had nothing better to do. And if any of us made one mistake with the dozens of small ways you basically wanted to play the game for us you'd let us have it, while saying nothing about what we got right. You even try to micromanage people on other teams.

You've annoyed me to the point where I'm making it publicly known. Maybe I would have held my ire if you said "we didn't play well" instead of dumping it all on the rest of the team.

Oh, and good job leaving Squirreloid in the lurch for a month when you said it'd be a week.

*sigh*

Yes, I lost my temper, I don't want you feeling like you can freely badmouth us after how you treated us. I regret that I didn't act earlier, or constructively, but I needed to state my feelings.

I said "we" didnt' play well. I count myself as head of the Usurpers. I'm sorry you chose to interpret it otherwise. Nonetheless, I am happy to have people compare my performance with your own.

Second, I said the turn I joined (right after turn 22) that the game was lost. In fact the name of the post from Numahar was .. "Have the supplicants won". (something to that effect). Given that the team wanted to continue I said I would give it my best shot.

As for good job leaving squirrel in the lurch - sorry that losing a home and a job qualifies as leaving squirrel in the lurch. Sorry that a trenchdigger cut the cable and left me without phone or internet for three weeks longer than anticipated. I *guess* I could have spliced that cable myself. Shall I forward you the repair order?

As for micromanaging other teams - you *have to* get other teams and players to do what you wish. Diplomacy is a key component of the game. The Supplicants getting Atlantis to attack the AI took Atlantis out of the game as a factor, and gave them a secure flank. I made quite a few efforts, but with no results. Unfortunately no one other that squirrel really believed me that the game was essentially decided if the game continued as it had been for the first 23 turns. And even if the at point if everyone joined up- it would have REQUIRED the crommies to step their game up as well. It would have required unified planning.

I did start trying to steer sept into the idea pooling resources - them forging for bandar thugs, for example. But there wasn't enough time get him to come around to my point of view.

As for "We do not spend hours upon hours over every little detail as if we had nothing better to do".

Algae - given that you voted to continue; given that I informed y'all that I was doing these hours in the middle of the night; given my circumstances; given the effort that I demonstrably put into the turns- I think I had a right to expect some dedication on your part.

It is funny to hear your criticism of my spending "hours upon hours over every little detail" when you couldn't muster enough dedication to build a fort 5 turns. Or blood hunt. Or fix taxation. Or change shape. or... bring a caster to cast arrow fend.

Praise is given where due.

[Numahr]

OK I would like to express that:
- I enjoyed both Squirrel's and Chris' leadership, who always engaged in dialogue when I had a different opinion, thus allowing for constructive dialogue;
- I enjoyed coordinating with my team mates, even though horizontal communication was indeed limited;
- I consider, for my part, that tensions arising from miscommunication are like unavoidable bumps on the road, especially in a situation where we have to change captainship in the middle of the road.

In short I enjoyed this game as long as it lasted, and will be happy to play in team games or otherwise with all of you if the opportunity presents itself

Now to give a little insight on the game from my modest perspective:
- Caelum attacked me turn 5-6! with hordes of mammoths... and never stopped. This makes a huge difference with an AI waiting for you to build up before the war starts. Fighting 40 mammoths turn 5 is not easy...
- Then 2 stales, one of which can be attributed to my lack of experience on direct connect (no comment on the other), resulted twice in military disasters;
- change in captainship meant that a lot of resources, in particular research, were lost due to a drastic change in strategy - even though the new strategy seems to have been fully justified;
- change in management style required a bit of time to adapt coordination routines already established;
- some newbie mistakes were committed - at least I learned and I do not commit them in my other MP games.

Again, thanks Sept for organizing the game, congratulations to Supplicants and greetings to my team mates and captains!

[Gandalf Parker]

And so it seems that despite predictions by expert wargamers of crash-and-burn, this went off well.
People did actually join.
The drama was less than apocalyptic.
The team-play was more a plus than a minus.
The AI wasnt stupid and easily defeated.
The server was up to the task.
Direct connect didnt totally suck.
The lack of CBM didnt define end-game?
The BI mod benefited the game?

Any other predictions I missed? So all in all it seems that as a game variant this was worthwhile?
Im all for game variants. But then Im about as ancient to the game as you can get so boredom with the standard games shouldnt be surprising in my case. Its nice to see others opinions also.

I also have an automatic tendency to fight the defaults.
HACK LIFE. REFUSE THE MENU.
FIGHT THE DEFAULTS!

[rdonj]

An entire team dropped out of the game creating an inherently unbalanced scenario.

Captain drama.

The AI was too strong and defeated much of the theoretical point of the game, and left at least one entire team (supplicants) pretty disappointed.

Server drama ensued. Both your server and the much touted llamaserver have their pros and cons, and I have nothing against your server, but it seems to require way too much of your personal attention to get things done, which creates excessive delays in communication, which seems to cause a lot of stales. People have been taking those well, for the most part, but to me that is one of the most offputting things about your server. The llamaserver has its moments too, though

The game ended before end game.

It's pretty hard to say whether BI did anything at all, and I don't think anyone has even mentioned the impact of that. Except septimius wishing he could have bought barbarians.



I mean, not that it was a total failure or anything, but you seem to be painting an excessively rosy picture of things. People did get a taste of team play though, and have an idea now of how team games can work. I do like team games and I think that has been a good aspect of this.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally Posted by rdonj

I mean, not that it was a total failure or anything, but you seem to be painting an excessively rosy picture of things.

Wow surprise. I thought I was already well known for that. Its my job. (see title by name)

I have nothing against your server, but it seems to require way too much of your personal attention to get things done

Pros and Cons. PbEM does lend itself more to mid-game changes and menu-driven maintenance. Direct is designed to be started and left running.

Much of the actions have been smoothed for particularly games. Either by the person running it having a login, or by automation such as the original NaV used. But in general Im not big on automating too much for direct connect games in setup or admining.

[rdonj]

It is well known. Which has its pros and cons, I guess. One of the cons being posts like mine pointing that out

[Gandalf Parker]

But now we have a whole FORUM for that.