.com.unity Forums
  The Official e-Store of Shrapnel Games

This Month's Specials

BCT Commander- Save $5.00
winSPWW2- Save $5.00

   







Go Back   .com.unity Forums > The Camo Workshop > WinSPMBT > TO&Es
Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old August 16th, 2021, 09:46 AM
blazejos's Avatar

blazejos blazejos is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pila, North west Poland
Posts: 371
Thanks: 67
Thanked 82 Times in 51 Posts
blazejos is on a distinguished road
Default Re: obat26 Afghanistan

Here is what today happens 16th of August 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbxxi8UGN6E

Panic at Kabul airport
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzISUAacT8A
https://twitter.com/i/status/1427246557200625665

And this video of American transport plane and desperation of peoples around is a proof that nothing is under control today (drastic scenes)
https://twitter.com/i/status/1427236717183045642

Al Jazeera about this subject Airport last stand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjKmLy7CWWI

Streets of Kabul today
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CswMkfstAZo

British soldiers just arrive to face this last stand on airport
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6T7NPg-Wzo

Street crowd opinion about performance of ANA during this war
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyt7G5ED6a4

Real accounts of internal displaced persons what's happens in countryside looks like on every war since antiqity civilians are killed (read men are shots immediately women raped and probably then killed or not)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY2jBV8WpHo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW_7rUPWeQM

And here story of Gul teenage girl who try save her parents
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smi_rEvVQ0s

A month ago this was said about this subject by today victors about future of women's there. "Taliban wants girls above 15 to be "gifted to fighters as wives"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zju15VoByGI

And here article about women soldiers of ANA They fear most to became POW and may fight to death if this last chance pace talks goes to nothing.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2021/08/16/scared-raped-killed-afghanistans-female-soldiers-fear-lives/ Here their training in 2019 captured by france24 camera
https://www.france24.com/en/20190405...an-oil-morocco

Story of Women inside Afganistan who are now face uncertain future
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h31f-slCNok

And here probably words which summarise all this event's in short form by
Seraj Mahbouba and words to all of us on the west.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUJlQbKHD2o

Last edited by blazejos; August 16th, 2021 at 10:54 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old August 16th, 2021, 02:29 PM
SaS TrooP's Avatar

SaS TrooP SaS TrooP is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wodzisław, Silesia, Poland
Posts: 374
Thanks: 24
Thanked 277 Times in 102 Posts
SaS TrooP is on a distinguished road
Default Re: obat26 Afghanistan

Quote:
And here probably words which summarise all this event's in short form by
Seraj Mahbouba and words to all of us on the west.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUJlQbKHD2o
20 years of actual military supplementation and advanced training.
Nearly the entire Marshall's Plan worth of aid to Afghanistan.
More than 2 trillions of military intervention cost.
Aaaaaand there is Afghan government falling like a cripple from a wheelchair the second the nurse turned the head for a second.

Oh, come on woman. If in 20 years Afghans cannot be convinced to broadly understood West, nothing will convince them. Taliban won because they generally do and say what majority of Afghans really believe and want, regardless what bull**** were they previously telling to the ISAF troops shaking their hands.
Afghanistan is for Afghans, if they want it Taliban style, so be it :P
Or they had all the means to fight for it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SaS TrooP For This Useful Post:
  #13  
Old August 16th, 2021, 03:01 PM
DRG's Avatar

DRG DRG is offline
Shrapnel Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: GWN
Posts: 10,861
Thanks: 2,600
Thanked 4,068 Times in 2,030 Posts
DRG will become famous soon enough
Default Re: obat26 Afghanistan

It would be interesting to know it was fighters from ISIL/ISIS who made their way to Afganistan to bolster the Taliban that tipped the balance.
__________________
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DRG For This Useful Post:
  #14  
Old August 17th, 2021, 06:47 PM
SaS TrooP's Avatar

SaS TrooP SaS TrooP is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Wodzisław, Silesia, Poland
Posts: 374
Thanks: 24
Thanked 277 Times in 102 Posts
SaS TrooP is on a distinguished road
Default Re: obat26 Afghanistan

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRG View Post
It would be interesting to know it was fighters from ISIL/ISIS who made their way to Afganistan to bolster the Taliban that tipped the balance.
Taliban was ferociously fighting off any ISIS influence, particularly in Herat area, so I would be surprised if they now acted as allies. They have waaaaaay different agenda, both social and religious.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to SaS TrooP For This Useful Post:
  #15  
Old August 18th, 2021, 03:49 AM
FASTBOAT TOUGH's Avatar

FASTBOAT TOUGH FASTBOAT TOUGH is offline
Major General
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Kingsland, GA.
Posts: 2,254
Thanks: 531
Thanked 944 Times in 701 Posts
FASTBOAT TOUGH is on a distinguished road
Fallout Re: obat26 Afghanistan

To "quantify" the following, 1 is too many, but, war is war. As the release of classified documents released in about the last 15 years or so showed, we were some place else a lot longer then was "advertised" my Dad did an advisor tour while in the USA in either 1957/58 or 1958/59 (1959 is when the war started between North and South Vietnam.)

Both Afghanistan and S. Vietnam with our involvement share similar issues both politically and militarily. Which tried to change their governments but due to incompetency and corruption, they both failed. We spent decades training both so that could fight on their own, the final result? The countries capitals of Kabul fell this past weekend and Saigon fell in 1 day as most historians agree on now-mostly-2 days by some.

Unlike the Ukrainians presently that are fighting to preserve their country (Maybe it's time we bumped up their morale also. At least they're "holding the line".), the other two, besides the above were/are "tribal" in nature regionally in S. Vietnam and more locally in Afghanistan.

The evacuations, no difference. I watched it live on TV then as now and it's the same "F U Soup Sandwich".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA3uV_YXZAk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36lLBbhnkZU
https://www.forces.net/heritage/hist...as-fall-saigon
https://thevietnamwar.info/how-long-...20be%20precise.


To the other...
https://www.forces.net/evergreen/isl...they-different

There was guy named George Santayana who said “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Sounds about right to me.

Regards,
Pat
__________________
"If something is not impossible, there must be a way of doing it." - Sir Nicholas Winton

"Ex communi periculo, fraternitas" - My career long mentor and current friend -QMCM/SS M. Moher USN Ret..

Last edited by FASTBOAT TOUGH; August 18th, 2021 at 12:38 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to FASTBOAT TOUGH For This Useful Post:
  #16  
Old August 18th, 2021, 08:16 AM
blazejos's Avatar

blazejos blazejos is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pila, North west Poland
Posts: 371
Thanks: 67
Thanked 82 Times in 51 Posts
blazejos is on a distinguished road
Default Re: obat26 Afghanistan

Arms of Afghanistan army

before soviet invasion until late 70's

small arms rifles/carabines etc
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/...rt-i-firearms/

vehicles/APC/Tanks
https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/...and-artillery/

There is an video which was an prediction of this what now happens on Kabul airport

Bagram military base and Jun 5 2021
https://www.scmp.com/video/world/314...ing-new-afghan
June 17 still under control of ANA
https://www.scmp.com/video/asia/3138...rd-scraps-sell
Now with all this vehicles probably in Taliban hands

And good article about reason why this happens "Why the US-Trained Afghan National Army Have Been Defeated with Ease by the Taliban"
https://www.military.com/daily-news/...e-taliban.html
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to blazejos For This Useful Post:
  #17  
Old August 18th, 2021, 09:32 AM
Aeraaa's Avatar

Aeraaa Aeraaa is offline
Second Lieutenant
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 494
Thanks: 137
Thanked 289 Times in 174 Posts
Aeraaa is on a distinguished road
Default Re: obat26 Afghanistan

The article is mostly political, so I'll just leave the link and the warning: politics. However, there are some interesting parts that I'll quote here:

Quote:
Gen. Petraeus swore he would have the Taliban bleeding from the nose and ready to sign whatever he demanded of them by July 2011. That never happened. McChrystal abandoned COIN after its very first test case in the town of Marjah in the Helmand Province.
Quote:
By the time Petraeus got there, he’d forgotten all about his own counterinsurgency doctrine and simply escalated special operations night raids and air strikes instead. As the great Gareth Porter proved, they were mostly killing and imprisoning innocent people. The Drone Papers leaked by Daniel Hale further confirmed Porter’s reporting.
Quote:
The Taliban figured out very quickly that if the U.S. strategy was centered on training up the Afghan National Army, they could thwart that by sending in sleeper agents to commit “insider” or “green on blue” attacks against their American trainers. That was it. The game was over. The distance created between the U.S. soldiers and the local charges by these attacks amounted to the ultimate sabotage of their plans to create an effective force—if that were ever possible.
Quote:
The ANA was mostly a bunch of “ghost soldiers,” who existed only on paper for the financial gain of the officers in charge. The actual men who showed up were mostly looking for a pair of boots, a rifle and a decent meal. At no time did the largely Tajik and Uzbek army have the Taliban’s sense of morale in fighting for their country. They were fighting at the behest of a foreign power to try to subjugate the population of part of their country, not really in self-defense at all.
https://original.antiwar.com/scott/2...ghan-disaster/
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Aeraaa For This Useful Post:
  #18  
Old August 19th, 2021, 09:52 AM
blazejos's Avatar

blazejos blazejos is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pila, North west Poland
Posts: 371
Thanks: 67
Thanked 82 Times in 51 Posts
blazejos is on a distinguished road
Default Re: obat26 Afghanistan

Just d'like to add propostion to Afgan OOB expansion based on data from previous post about equipment of Afgan Army pre 1970.

Next I d'like to propose addition of Afgan ANA commandos units which according to wikipedia were tasked with 80% of all fights with Taliban until recently Kabul fall and desintegration of goverment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan...Commando_Corps
This movie from July is proof that they were no mercy for them even when they surrender
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/13/a...hnk/index.html
Not supraised that Commandos were among the first of this who start resistance under Northern aliance banner recently in Panjshir Valley were heading last troops since 17th August
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjshir_resistance

This propostion is based on Afgan OOB OOB26 where nothing is changed except units after unit662 where this new units are placed

I also add a couple of lbm's which represents
Pm29900.lbm until Pm29915.lbm tanks and equipment from article
Pm29916.lbm until Pm29924.lbm ANA commandos
Pm29925.lbm to Pm299929.lbm former ANA airforce aircrafts look on PM29928.lbm was described as SU-17 recently captured by Taliban

BTW.
Detailed raport of ANA losses

Equipment losses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Taliban_offensive
Quote:
According to an open-source investigative report, published at the Oryx blog by Stijn Mitzer and Joost Oliemans,[68] since June, the Taliban captured twelve tanks (seven T-54s and five T-62s), fifty-one armoured fighting vehicles (forty-six M1117 ASVs, two M1117 Command & Controls and three M113 APCs), sixty-one mortars and pieces of artillery (thirty-five 122mm D-30 howitzers, three 76 mm divisional gun M1942 (ZiS-3)s, one 120mm mortar, two 82mm M69 mortars, one 60mm mortar and nineteen mortars of unknown origin), eight anti-aircraft guns (two 14.5mm KPV-1s and six 23mm ZU-23s), sixteen helicopters (nine Mil Mi-17s, one Mil Mi-24V, four UH-60A BlackHawks and two MD 530Fs), six unmanned aerial vehicles (six Boeing Insitu ScanEagles), and 1,973 trucks, vehicles and jeeps from the Afghan armed forces.[66][250] The Taliban also destroyed nine M1117 ASVs, four Mi-17s and three UH-60A BlackHawks, one DJI Mavic and 104 trucks, vehicles and jeeps. Oryx only counts destroyed vehicles and equipment of which photo or videographic evidence is available.[66]

Since 2 July, US forces conducted multiple airstrikes targeting military equipment captured by the insurgents. US airstrikes destroyed multiple D30 artillery pieces, multiple tanks, MRAPs and Humvees that the Taliban had captured from Afghan security forces.
Attached Files
File Type: zip ANA.zip (461.9 KB, 38 views)

Last edited by blazejos; August 19th, 2021 at 10:22 AM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to blazejos For This Useful Post:
  #19  
Old August 20th, 2021, 05:39 AM
blazejos's Avatar

blazejos blazejos is offline
Sergeant
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Pila, North west Poland
Posts: 371
Thanks: 67
Thanked 82 Times in 51 Posts
blazejos is on a distinguished road
Default Re: obat26 Afghanistan

If you look again on the movie of execution of Commandos from CNN from July further in the middle of the movie there is an evidence from local peoples that Taliban fighters talk in foreign language that may be an answer for question raised earlier that in this last stand of ANA army face also foreign fighters from outside Afghanistan.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/13/a...hnk/index.html

And that is something disturbing that during this last month most capable and trustworthy soldiers of Afghan government were lured inside traps and killed without mercy probably thanks to penetration of ANA by traitors. Even Sun-Tzu mentioned that dagger stab in back or poison is more capable in war than open fight. So when Commandos units who fight moust battles in June-July were lost that is not suprise that regular army units and police simple disintegrate. They waren't fighting this war with so high morale either wasn't so well trained they have only equipment which they left and flee.

If you look on this article about Salima Mazari governor of Chahar Kint
https://twitter.com/hashtag/SalimaMa...=hashtag_click
https://www.republicworld.com/world-...n-hostage.html
organised a peoples militia to support ANA units and I have feeling that this wasn't an exception but happens in many parts of Afghanistan. So Afghanistan government fall but many peoples fights and now they face consequence of this I have feeling that they don't believe in promises of pace and personal security that is game now between Taliban and west who need airport secured and not attacked by Taliban.

That people resistance against Taliban from side of society is now weak but already started because broken promises of Taliban government about peace, personal security, and issue of girls taken by fighters. That may also explain now bloody riots against Taliban in Jalalabad Khost and Asadaba,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Afghan_protests
Simple Taliban top official government need international recognition and may promise many things even enforce them in Kabul but smaller warlords in provinces don't care they are interested in rape and pillage + killing of their enemies even if that is discouraged by new Taliban government in Kabul.

That is why peoples who are on proscription lists, soldiers from broken units try to starts resistance. They have no other option Taliban want them dead west selfish caring only about safety of their evacuation and airport so probably now they can't even have any help from anywhere.

Here is article about one of this last stand place PANJSHIR VALLEY
in 16 of august they start to collect vehicles and helicopters from broken units and prepare https://nypost.com/2021/08/18/inside...liban-control/ they even have their flag which is decadent from Northern alliance from 2001 https://www.republicworld.com/world-...-its-flag.html
Here is more about rescued vehicles and equipment
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ssia-says.html
https://www.trtworld.com/asia/anti-t...s-russia-49308
https://www.the-sun.com/news/3499828...tance-taliban/

And here about arms and gear of ANA commandos in hands of Taliban
https://www.the-sun.com/news/3506397...military-gear/

Last edited by blazejos; August 20th, 2021 at 05:56 AM..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to blazejos For This Useful Post:
  #20  
Old August 22nd, 2021, 07:03 PM
MarkSheppard's Avatar

MarkSheppard MarkSheppard is offline
Major
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,095
Thanks: 79
Thanked 364 Times in 246 Posts
MarkSheppard is on a distinguished road
Default Re: obat26 Afghanistan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobhack View Post
The morale and rally may need a check for the taliban formations.

The "government" (ANA and etc) is likely set low enough, any "central government" of Afghanistan never seems to be worth much militarily - see how they folded recently after 20 odd years of training and suppply from the Western foeces.
Apparently supply/organization in the ANA and Police forces were nonexistent:

1.) Many ANA people hadn't been paid since...around May of this year. If you're not getting paid for the last 4 months, why stay?

2.) Many people were "ghost" soldiers, existing on paper to supply graft and corruption -- this was also AFAIK an issue with the Soviets in Afghanistan and/or Chechnya, but because Soviet organization was set up around WWII style supply distribution -- if you reported headcount accurately, you got less food/ammo, so there was an incentive to report dead people as alive to get their supplies.

In the Afghan case, it was pure corruption, pocketing the "ghost soldiers'" salaries.

3.) Afghans couldn't even get "into" logistics -- many US units started carrying extra ammo and mags to resupply their assigned police; because the Afghan Police refused to issue out ammo -- you were given 2 magazines for your pistol, and you couldn't get any more until you came back with no ammo.

The Afghans didn't get the concept that waiting until a unit was "black" in regards to supply was really bad.

4.) And this next issue is endemic to tribal culture -- this was also encountered in Mali (Africa) by the French who were attempting to train anti Shahib militas.

Basically, local tribal councils keep the best quality manpower for their local militas and tribal police -- as a consequence, only the total fookin' idiots of that area get given up whenever the central government/police come around asking for manpower.

This has a lot of knock on effects for trying to run a national army in areas of intense tribalism -- you're having to explain to the poorest possible quality of personnel why preventive maintenance is good for firearms and vehicles, and why you shouldn't be smoking hash while on guard duty (!!!)
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MarkSheppard For This Useful Post:
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2021, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.