Info: MA Ermor pretender design

[WraithLord]

Hi, I'm about to start a game as MA Ermor.

I've read all the known material on MA Ermor and also EA and LA (for good measure). But, for the life of me I can't decide about that luck scale.
Should I max it out, leave it neutral or go for the O3Msft2 combo?

Points to consider are map size - Map is Asia Twist.
Heroes, are MA Ermor heroes worth it etc.

I'm interested in hearing other opinions b/c, frankly, I can't makeup my mind and not the current information nor the test games I ran helped me decide

I'd appreciate any thoughts on the subject.

[attackdrone]

Are you playing with any mods? If you are playing with CBM, the effects of luck/misfortune are increased - making Order 3 / Misfortune 2 less of a clear choice.

I don't remember any of their heroes being anything special, but I have not played Ermor in many a game.

Also, what would you use the extra 80 points from Misfortune 2 for?

[13lackGu4rd]

I'd say definitely O3, as for misf, it depends on how badly you need the points. misf3 is a big no, no in my book, but 0, 1 and 2 are all viable depending on what else you need the points for. keep in mind that you have H3 priests, and in MA only 2 nations can blood sacrifice, so that's as good as it'll get. however your H3 priests will mostly be animating Longdead Horsemen, so ideally they won't do a lot of preaching. still, if fighting against an opponent with a strong dominion, you will have the tools to fight it. another thing is that it will be worth it to get good scales for you, and that will also harm your enemies. so cold3 might be a good option for you, maybe along with Death, to make it a serious pain for enemies to fight inside your dominion.

as for your actual pretender, MA Ermor has great mages but mostly S+D, only 25% chance to get W1/A1 on your Grand Thaumaturgs and 0.25% to get another level of any of them. so basically you want a rainbow. you have many options for rainbows, but I'd at least consider a few things:
1. at least E3S2 for hammers and coins, might as well go for 4 for the MR bonus to your sacreds, and easier access to RoS+RoW.
2. you have nice sacreds, especially the Shadow Vestals, a minor bless for them would be a great addition to your undead hordes.
3. you have death covered, but you might want a point or 2 of it on your pretender for site searching purposes and later for cross path spells(such as summoning Anthrax, the Banefire King).

[WraithLord]

attackdrone:

“Are you playing with any mods? If you are playing with CBM, the effects of luck/misfortune are increased - making Order 3 / Misfortune 2 less of a clear choice.”
CBM+EDM. Yes, I’m aware of the increased effects. Had it not been CBM I’d have gone with the O3Msft2 w/o a 2nd thought

…

“Also, what would you use the extra 80 points from Misfortune 2 for?”
From L3 to Msft2 it’s more like 200 points , well I’d use them to good effect, like throw more magic on my pretender.


13lackGu4rd

“I'd say definitely O3, as for misf, it depends on how badly you need the points. misf3 is a big no, no in my book, but 0, 1 and 2 are all viable depending on what else you need the points for. keep in mind that you have H3 priests, and in MA only 2 nations can blood sacrifice, so that's as good as it'll get. however your H3 priests will mostly be animating Longdead Horsemen, so ideally they won't do a lot of preaching. still, if fighting against an opponent with a strong dominion, you will have the tools to fight it. another thing is that it will be worth it to get good scales for you, and that will also harm your enemies. so cold3 might be a good option for you, maybe along with Death, to make it a serious pain for enemies to fight inside your dominion.
“
But what about O3 and L3 combined?
Cold 3 is good for the undead but bad to the economy. R U sure it’s worth it?

“as for your actual pretender, MA Ermor has great mages but mostly S+D, only 25% chance to get W1/A1 on your Grand Thaumaturgs and 0.25% to get another level of any of them. so basically you want a rainbow. you have many options for rainbows, but I'd at least consider a few things:
1. at least E3S2 for hammers and coins, might as well go for 4 for the MR bonus to your sacreds, and easier access to RoS+RoW.
2. you have nice sacreds, especially the Shadow Vestals, a minor bless for them would be a great addition to your undead hordes.
3. you have death covered, but you might want a point or 2 of it on your pretender for site searching purposes and later for cross path spells(such as summoning Anthrax, the Banefire King).
“
This is a cover your weakness strat. It’s ok. I like that approach but what about enhance your strengths strat. Like take a s9 + great scales pretender?

[13lackGu4rd]

well, cold3 is worth it if you plan to go with a high dom strategy. otherwise don't bother with it. O3L3 is always nice if you can afford the points, but if you go for a rainbow than you won't have points to spare. if you want a pure scales strat with something like an imprisoned Oracle than I guess it's doable.

as for the rainbow, it's not just a "cover your weakness" strategy. first of all, the minor bless is nice for your sacreds, especially the Shadow Vestals, which will pump up your early game expansion until you get your longdead horsemen factory running. than you can use them as meat shields(being ethereal and carrying shields) for your longdead horsemen in your big armies. also, the magic versatility, while a clear weakness of MA Ermor, does not mean you "cover a weakness", you can also view it as creating new strengths. for example, in mid game you got your massive undead armies, if you add buffs like LoS, SoG, WoS, etc will that be covering a weakness or enhancing a strength?

I guess an imprisoned S9 Oracle with a pure scales strat can work, it's a solid strat for many nations. however MA Ermor's national magic access is very narrow, so as soon as your neighbors come up with the proper undead counters you will have some problems. sure, you can still use your regular Thaumaturgs to spam nether bolt/dart and stuff, but you'll still have some large holes to fill somehow. and as you know, relying on just indies for magic diversity is very risky to say the least.

[WraithLord]

The main problem with the rainbow strat. (as I see it) as the high cost for getting to solid dominion strength.

( That said, the points you make are still valid )

*sigh* choices, choices, it's always about them...

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah, high dom and rainbow don't usually mix well together. 1 possibility you have is to use a dormant Master Lich. 20/path is not as good as 10, but the high starting dom makes it a lot more affordable to go for a higher dom strategy. also, being immortal you can play more risky with it and benefit from more battlefield magic much earlier. it's a bit on the expensive side, so a semi rainbow is more feasible than a full rainbow, but as long as you put the critical paths on him it could work very well for a high dom strat. otherwise, just stick with a regular rainbow with dom 5-7 and forget the cold+death scales for dom pushing.

[Bonfire]

According the herolist you get 3 heroes as MA Ermor:

Grand Thaumaturg: S2D4N2H2
Scythe Wielder: S3D3H2 description implies he generates death gems
The Master of the Games: old guy with hero's blade and attacks that cause eyeloss and heart finding(mr resistable death?)

I wouldn't say the heroes are worth the points though the Grand Thamaturg is very nice.

Remember a big part of luck is gem events and unless you have a good way to use those gems they're wasted. I generally wouldn't take high luck with a nation like Ermor unless I also took a pretender that gives some decent magic diversity.

[Festin]

I recently used an O3L3 S9 Oracle as MA Ermor in Multiera Mithril Might, and I am very happy with this build. Got into lategame as one of 4 surviving nations an a major power, and only after a leading nation put up an Arcane Nexus I eventually gave up - even then my position was very solid and I could defend almost indefinetely, but AN is AN, so no chance of victory, and the micro was killing me. Overall, my most successful game so far.

Regarding the pretender: Ermor's mages are sacred, vestals are sacred, principes are actually hardly needed with all that undead chaff as troops, so upkeep is always low. O3L3 gave me a surprising amount of good events, and O3 is always good. During the entire game I was practically swimming in money, putting castles everywhere and spamming huge numbers of mages. I can't really remember if I was ever short in gold.
Also, Sloth 3 is an obvious choice. Free points, basically.
S9 is a great bless for vestals, so expansion will be a breeze.
Magic diversity is not that bad. You have as much D and S as you want, and a little A and W. Hidden in the Snow gives E and W, and then Hidden in the Sand gives F. Indies can always give you nature.

[WraithLord]

don't forget air via, a- indie N mages + boosters and b- fairy queens