Ideal 4x Travel

[aegisx]

So what do you guys think is the best way to do travel in a 4x game? SE/Moo's warp point, Galciv's open map? Something in between?

[Arkcon]

I played GalCiv back in the days of OS/2, and I never questioned the physics of open map, these are games after all.

Once I decided in GalCiv not to be aggressive at all, just to stay in my home system and see what would happen. Picketing a ship/satellite on every square became a little annoying.

So that's a vote for warp point/jumpgate/hyperspace jump points. When you think about it, all sci fi uses warp points, in a way. Nothing ever happens to the Enterprise while its at full warp, Vader can't catch the Millennium Falcon while its in hyperspace, etc.

Pretty well summarized, right here. Schlock{clicky}

[aegisx]

In terms of a soley PBEM game, no AI...


I also have always had issues with the open map, as defending your space is a royal pain.

In the WP model though, being able to stack a large amount of defense in a single spot is also a drawback. Later on in SE you can create WP's, but for most of the game you can not.

B5 uses more of a hybrid where there are WP's/jump gates but some ships can can generate their own. I wonder if this model could be effective in a game.

[Arkcon]

On a level we do have an open point travel in the SE series. A large ship with a max level warp point opener can travel great distances, and can carry a whole fleet with it, and "close the hole" if it carries a warp point closer.

People often toy with the concept of a mod that has few, or no, warp points, and a different tech tree for warp point openers, something that adds a bit of strategy to where you can go, and how quickly you want to get there.

[Renegade 13]

Having played both SE and Galciv's 1 and 2, I definitely prefer SE's warp point system. It allows for much greater defensive strength, and I'm a defensive-minded player, so it suits my play-style better.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

What do you have more fun with? SE definitely has some nice blockade strategy, but Stars! strategy is more fluid.

[AgentZero]

I always liked the warp point system better. It allows for the use of strategic chokepoints to defend your space, which allows you to defend with fewer ships, since in an open system you basically just fortify the bejeebus out of every single one of your planets, because if you have a few fortified planets, they get passed over and your undefended planets wind up glassed.

That being said, an open system could be very interesting if implemented properly, but I don't think SE5 has the capability for this. What you would need would be a mixture of very fast, decently armed ships and slower heavy-duty pounders at each of your "chokepoints". When any enemy ships came cruising by, your fast ships would zip out and engage them, tying them up long enough for your heavier ships to arrive and do the smashey-smashey.

Of course, for this to work, you would have to have something that would funnel enemy fleets to the general area of your chokepoint, otherwise you wind up with one fleet defending each system, which is a slight improvement on one fleet per planet but not by much.

You could do something along the lines of what the 4X mod for Civ4 does, and use damaging nebulae and storms so that ships can't come at you from any direction. It's terribly unrealistic, but it would wind up being one of those fun-for-realism trades.

What would also help would be the inclusion of some sort of "supply line" system. This would not necessarily prevent, but make it very inadvisable to bypass fleets stationed at planets, even if you could, since said fleet could then cut off your supply line, and then crush your crippled fleet at it's leisure.

Anyway, I'm supposed to be studying right now, so I'm off!

[Suicide Junkie]

In GGmod, I've been experimenting with impenetrable sector cloaking warppoints.
Ideally ships which end turn on the warppoint will be moved to a random neighbouring hex, but for now, I'm just throwing damage because it is simpler to script.

Defending a warppoint typically means defending the 3-5 sectors around it, or maintaining a mobile defense fleet close enough nearby to intercept enemy fleets.
Plus a few very fast interceptors to pick off the enemy sensor scouts, of course, since they can easily outrun your warships.

[Spectarofdeath]

Got to say I like both. I like Galcivs style in that you don't "need" warp points to get to enemy territory. This means that any warp points then become very high value targets. I don't like in Galciv the open borders stuff, declare war, ally or stay the hell out. One way for them to maybe make it a little better in this way would be to add some kind of "Zone control" module for starbases, which would prevent enemy ships entering your space for a set number of spaces. As it is now (Galciv2, not DA) you need to have a ship or SB on every sector of your borders and that eats up alot of resources alone, not to mention your actual fleets. In BOTF I used to make a starbase every 2nd square and also keep a small fast interceptor fleet on station to engage intruders. I dont mind them sending a massive fleet in my backdoor (which as I think most people agree is a act of war) as long as I have a way to defend from it without bankrupting my empire. Maybe also allow scout size ships to enter at will but be detectable by your ships and allow you to destroy them without war, would bring a few more options to the tables. "Hey, can you send a scout to Empire A since your friends (so he prob won't shoot you down) to get me some intel, in exchange I'll give you Item A?"

On the other hand system defense in SE is much easier in that you only have a few WP's to defend (assuming you get the System protection fac.), gotta love chokepoints.

[aegisx]

Anyone know how Starfire (I think that is the old game) dealt with travel?