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  #51  
Old June 16th, 2011, 12:51 PM

ScottWAR ScottWAR is offline
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Default Re: Fed Up

Seems Shrapnel doesnt have anything else to say on the subject. I guess once they realized everyone here is just as fed up as I am they decided to go back to hoping silence works.

Seriously guys,......call the FTC and make a complaint. Enough complaints and the FTC will contact them and they will actually do something,...even if its refunding our money.

Its time to quit complaining, and just taking it,...its time to do something.
  #52  
Old June 18th, 2011, 03:30 AM

Mike_T Mike_T is offline
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Default Re: Fed Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_T View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malfador Machinations View Post
Hi All,

Yes, I have received the manifestos, and yes I have read the forums. 75% of the manifestos are change and addition suggestions. The remaining 25% are general descriptions of why the AI is not strong enough. General descriptions are very difficult to reproduce. I need specifics.

The following information should be in bug reports:
1. Version of the Game
2. Type of game you're playing - Single Player, Multi Player, Hotseat, TCP/IP.
3. Section of the game - Movement, Combat, Install, Purchasing, AI, etc.
4. Detailed Description
5. Why you feel this is incorrect behavior.
6. Steps to reproduce
7. Savegame
8. Screenshots
9. Debug Log

Obviously, you can't provide all of the preceeding information in every case. But savegames and screenshots are very important. AI actions often develop over several turns. I need to be able to see what the player is doing, and how the AI is reacting to it. AI behavior is strongly dictated by the player's actions. A different player will get a different reaction.

Aaron
Aaron

There seems to be a misunderstanding between you and the buyers of this game. Buyers expect a game to be a finished product that has been tested and which works properly. You seem to think that buyers should do the testing for you. I would be interested in what Shrapnel's expectations were.

Did you carry out proper testing before releasing the game to Shrapnel? Did you implement the testers' findings? Did you believe that the game as released was a properly finished product? Shouldn't you be apologising for the game's shortcomings, rather than asking buyers to suggest "improvements"?

And, Shrapnel - did you expect Aaron to deliver you a fully tested and completed game? Do you think that is what he gave you? Are you happy with the sales pitch for WS as it appears on your website?

Why is it so difficult for a supplier to accept responsibility for what they are selling? This isn't just a legal requirement - it helps to keep your customers happy - if that's important to you!
Aaron and Shrapnel - these are simple relevant questions. Please give us some answers - don't ignore reasonable questions from your customers. This is not a hostile post - just an honest attempt to understand what's going on.
  #53  
Old June 18th, 2011, 03:05 PM

ScottWAR ScottWAR is offline
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Default Re: Fed Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_T View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_T View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malfador Machinations View Post
Hi All,

Yes, I have received the manifestos, and yes I have read the forums. 75% of the manifestos are change and addition suggestions. The remaining 25% are general descriptions of why the AI is not strong enough. General descriptions are very difficult to reproduce. I need specifics.

The following information should be in bug reports:
1. Version of the Game
2. Type of game you're playing - Single Player, Multi Player, Hotseat, TCP/IP.
3. Section of the game - Movement, Combat, Install, Purchasing, AI, etc.
4. Detailed Description
5. Why you feel this is incorrect behavior.
6. Steps to reproduce
7. Savegame
8. Screenshots
9. Debug Log

Obviously, you can't provide all of the preceeding information in every case. But savegames and screenshots are very important. AI actions often develop over several turns. I need to be able to see what the player is doing, and how the AI is reacting to it. AI behavior is strongly dictated by the player's actions. A different player will get a different reaction.

Aaron
Aaron

There seems to be a misunderstanding between you and the buyers of this game. Buyers expect a game to be a finished product that has been tested and which works properly. You seem to think that buyers should do the testing for you. I would be interested in what Shrapnel's expectations were.

Did you carry out proper testing before releasing the game to Shrapnel? Did you implement the testers' findings? Did you believe that the game as released was a properly finished product? Shouldn't you be apologising for the game's shortcomings, rather than asking buyers to suggest "improvements"?

And, Shrapnel - did you expect Aaron to deliver you a fully tested and completed game? Do you think that is what he gave you? Are you happy with the sales pitch for WS as it appears on your website?

Why is it so difficult for a supplier to accept responsibility for what they are selling? This isn't just a legal requirement - it helps to keep your customers happy - if that's important to you!
Aaron and Shrapnel - these are simple relevant questions. Please give us some answers - don't ignore reasonable questions from your customers. This is not a hostile post - just an honest attempt to understand what's going on.
Mike, at some point it becomes obvious what the truth is. That time has came and gone with this game. Aaaron does not intend to fix it,......because he hasnt made anything from it. Of course its completely his fault that the game failed miserably,...you cant release a product that is not worth playing at all and exepect it to sell well.
But now he wants to just walk away leaving us with a game that is a complete waste of money. It doesnt matter if you are reasonable......as you see you arent going to get an answer.

File a complaint with the FTC......its the only option they have left us with.
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  #54  
Old June 19th, 2011, 11:30 AM

ScottWAR ScottWAR is offline
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Default Re: Fed Up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Brooks View Post
ScottWAR:

and you need to give input if you want the AI to improve for you. If you aren't willing to do that, then don't complain here.

I think this really says it all. If we arent willing to do the work for them,...they arent willing to fix the game WE PAID FOR.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Brooks View Post
ScottWAR:

You need to tone it down or you will be gone from these forums. Aaron Hall has told you what he needs from you.



So either help us help you or stop complaining here.
And if you complain too loudly without doing their work for them,.......well they have a muzzle they want to place on you.

Of course the big kicker here is.....we HAVE ALREADY done the work they are asking for.

And you are welcome jaywalker. Since I havent saw you in these forums before, I hope you are a potential sale they lost due to how they are dealing with this.
  #55  
Old June 19th, 2011, 08:59 PM
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spillblood spillblood is offline
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Default Re: Fed Up

OK, I've filed a complaint at FTC. I've had enough. Please, all people who are also fed up, file complaints! Either they stop selling this unfinished and bad game, or get on with fixing it. When there's no new patch coming out, I want my money back!
Man, this forum really is the game forum I've been most active in of all forums of games I bought, because I hoped it will live up to its potential if I do something to support it. But this way (no info, no real support, lack of patches, no support from the community anymore) I think I've done enough.
The last thing I did was to send Aaron some savegames and gamelogs (before the complaint) last Friday. Haven't received any answer yet. I think further supporting this game is useless. We have to take other measures if there's no further support by Malfador.

Last edited by spillblood; June 19th, 2011 at 09:08 PM..
  #56  
Old June 19th, 2011, 09:10 PM
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spillblood spillblood is offline
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Default Re: Fed Up

Either declare this game a failure and stop selling it, or hire betatesters and fix it, Malfador and Shrapnel. I don't want to do betatesting on this game. Some bug reports are OK, but the things Aaron wants from us have to be considered as professional betatesting.
  #57  
Old June 21st, 2011, 08:47 AM
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Default Re: Fed Up

Hey people, if you know of some bugs that happened in your last games, and still have the savegames (I had some of the games I described in forum posts here), just send them to Aaron, and if you have logs enabled, you can simply send him the game logs, I think they are located in World Supremacy\backup. You can change the settings (which stuff to log) in debugsettings.txt located in the folder: "World Supremacy/userdata directory" You don't have to play more games if you still have savegames left.
JCrowe: Just send him savegames of the games you described in the forum, and logs if you have them. You only have to tell him which savegames are referred to in which posts (I have sent him collections of all post 1.09 forum posts).
He's answered my E-Mail with savegames, logs etc., and wants me to specify which games they are from, what happened in the respective games etc.
  #58  
Old June 21st, 2011, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: Fed Up

But he hasn't told me specifically which settings to enable so that he can see AI-errors.
Hehe, I wanna quote a post from another forum (the forums of Armada 2526 by Ntronium Games:
"Thanks for the feedback, spillblood.
Well I wouldn't be too hard on Shrapnel Games for the quality of the game itself, although I concur it sucks that they don't do refunds. It's Aaron Hall of Malfador Machinations who actually made World Supremacy, and his PC titles have always been known for their weak AI (his Space Empires series is notorious for it). The actual gameplay and mechanics are generally pretty solid, but he can't code computer opponents worth a damn.

I did play the WS demo a little, but not enough to really get a good impression of it. Sorry to hear you had to buy the game before realizing (too late) that it wasn't your cup of tea, but I appreciate you sharing your take on it! It'll at least save the rest of us money and time better spent on good games (like Armada 2526 Supernova)."

I had put a warning not to buy the game there. Man, if I had known the Space Empires series already had poor AI, I wouldn't have bought World Supremacy.
  #59  
Old June 23rd, 2011, 10:07 AM
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spillblood spillblood is offline
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Default Re: Fed Up

Any news? Starting to get silent again. No response from Shrapnel and Malfador, and I've not received an answer to my response-E Mail of the bug report (savegames, game logs) yet.
  #60  
Old June 23rd, 2011, 02:25 PM

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Default Re: Fed Up

I played the demo of this game, and was thinking of buying it. Not after reading the forum posts. Thanks!
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