Merkava.

[kevineduguay1]

RERomine,

Yes I see what you mean. It looks like the rounds are removed from the shipping tubes and then placed inside the tank.

Also the rounds in the "ready" magazine area are protected by the magazine. 5-10 rounds depending on Mk.

Now as to the stowage question I have some observations from the short video and the pictures on Tanknet.
Both show an early Mk of Merkava. The short video shows the 4 round containers stacked 6 to each side of the rear compartment much like the picture on the site poster here. Those containers do not belong in that tank. Its a MkI. The picture on my thread on Tanknet show 2 metal bins that look like they could hold about 6 rounds of 105mm ammo. This would match up with the description of secured storage of ammunition on a MkI. If I am correct about those metal bins there are only 12 rounds stored in the back of a MkI. With 5 or 6 at the ready station where are the other 42 rounds stored?
In the game the MkI holds 60 rounds of ammo for its 105mm gun. I have seen other numbers that seem correct up to 62 rounds. Now if you read the part about carrying troops and ammo storage one the site we have both been looking at here the author gives a main gun ammo load of only 47 rounds if carrying troops.
The hull of the MkIII is larger that the MkI and MkII. The MkIVs hull is slightly large than the MkIII. On the site posted here the author only gives the load out of 120mm ammo for the MkIV carrying troops. The Magazine in the MkIII I think only carries 5 rounds. With the smaller magazine the number of rounds stowed while carrying troops in a MkIII would be 5 to 7 rounds less than a MkIV.

With all the videos I have looked at the only rounds that are ever shown being used are those from a magazine of one kind or another. But if we look at the layouts of other tanks we see that ammo can and is stored almost anywhere it will fit.

Just some thoughts.

Edit: Its not a MKIV in the pic but it could be an early MkIII or an updated MkII. The MkIIs have been upgraded almost as much as they can be. MkIIIs going back for re-fit are comming out looking much like MkIVs. Good eye about the camera!

[kevineduguay1]

See post # 26 on the thread I started on Tanknet. Good info on MkI and MkII ammo load out.

[RERomine]

The photo seems to show twelve 4-round containers and seem to be for 105mm rounds, so the numbers quoted from Jane's don't add up:

- 44 in 4-round containers

My math tells me that is eleven 4-round containers, but my eyes tell me twelve. The containers are obviously removable, so maybe they typically pull one of the 4-round containers and use the space for MG ammo storage. That is just a guess, however. I don't believe I've seen any pictures with 2-round containers, but I haven't really looked for them either.

As far as the two containers you are referring to possibly holding 105mm rounds, it is possible. My gut tells me it is something else. We know the 4-round containers were removable, so maybe they were taken out and these put in. Possible for one of those ad-hoc infantry missions. They could be used for equipment storage and make convenient, if uncomfortable seats. If you recall, commented before that the handles wouldn't be pleasant to be sitting on.

For the benefit of everyone else, I'll put those pictures out here as well.

[kevineduguay1]

Thanks again.

And for those who have not seen this yet....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOZvoBL8d-k

[kevineduguay1]

I think we have the reply we were waiting for on Tanknet. Its post #36 by DADI.

He knew about the metal bins in the pic posted here above.(Its not Merkava gear) He also gives a load out for the MkI and MkII of 14 rounds while carrying 8 men in full gear. carrying this many men does not restrict in any way the rotation of the turret. With a 1 or 2 man team it is possible to carry a full load of ammo. Now we just have to do a little math to figure out the rest.

Getting this kind of info on the MkIII and MkIV will probably not be possible at this time but it may be possible to come up with some kind of solution that will satisfy most players.

I have seen some of DADIs other posts and I trust his figures.

[gila]

What can you trust Israeli propaganda or the real truth?




Unique among the main battle tanks of the world, the Merkava design features a front-mounted power pack, which presents a heavy mass in the forward area, which protects the crew from enemy attack. This configuration also cleared room at the rear section for a safe exit and enough space to carry a few fully armed infantrymen, in addition to the crew. The rear access hatch allows for the quick and safe exit of injured crewmen or pickup of wounded soldiers for evacuation.



Source here:

http://www.defense-update.com/directory/merkava4.htm

[gila]

note can carry a "few" fully equiped infrantry..which means 3 at best.

The way Isreal trys to describe it as some kind of Hybride tank,that can do backflips and juggle all at the same time,is just plain PG BS.

[Imp]

Kevin why not go read about 2006 as this was the documented period where squads were loaded. From memory not rereading so appologies if wrong.
First tank goes bang doing regular patrol work, parks up & deploys troops in the same few spots most days
The charge through the valley into the ATGM ambush also had troops on board.
These mistakes will not be repeated in a hurry & yes the tactic of troops on board was only a small part of the problem. Poor use of intel & shall we say overconfidence played a bigger factor while the Hez had been planing for months.
Will they ever use them as IFVs again or perhaps is this what is making them think sticking a GL or gun on the Namer is a good idea.
Perhaps Israels problem was they could not use the tanks as they wish because the APCs cant keep up so carrying some infantry seemed a good idea.

[kevineduguay1]

gila,

With a full ammo load 2-3 troops. Thanks for the confirmation.

The Russians call the Merkava a hybrid.

Imp,

Carrying a few troops in the back (1-3) seems to have been common practice durring LIC operations. In a tank vs tank situation the Merks would probably not carry any infantry

In both Lebanon conflicts the Merks were pressed into service to transport infantry into areas where a normal APC would be a sitting duck to anyone with a RPG.

2006 was when these tactics were used the most and with the most men aboard. One tactic was to back the tank up to a breach or doorway of a building and let the squad or section out under full cover from small arms fire.

[gila]

Good thread,

Learned alot about the Merkava,although i've never used them in game,they have some interesting potential.

One thing that could happen from what has been uncovered, is maybe the dev's could create a a separate hybrid (apc class) with much lower main gun rounds to have a few infrantry inboard.