Really Stupid Range Check Error

Lord Felix · #1 March 16th, 2001, 10:01 PM

SEIV is a great concept, but I think I've had enough after easily winning 10 games over a stupid AI and then hitting a really stupid range check error Last night. Was playing in a small universe, all warp points NOT connected, just me against the Sergetti (Modpack Sergetti Expert, high difficulty, low bonus). I was the Eee, religious, propulsion experts. Sergettis were way ahead of me in points the way the game keeps score, but I had the better techs. Got warp manipulation first. Did something cool I'd always wanted to do. Opened warp point to Sergetti space. Warped in self-sufficient fleet of four super-baseships and four super-tenders. Then CLOSED the warp point. Sergettis had over 200 ships vs. my 8, and they didn't stand a chance.

After glassing four of their eight systems, I sent off ONE baseship to attack FOUR of their battleships. Only five ships involved in the battle. Got range check errors crashing the game, no matter whether I did the battle tactically or strategically. The range check error occurred when my ONE ship fired on ONE battleship with its bank of 8 Heavy Mount Level 3 Null-Space Weapons.

Tried something else, and got range check errors when I sent my fleet of 8 ships against a big Sergetti fleet (over 75 ships including 12 light carriers).

In a game with a fundamental design involving hundreds of ships with hundreds of components, I think it's a fatal flaw that one EVER gets range check errors. But it's really inconceivable that it would happen in a battle involving only five ships. Pfui. Now it's time to master Combat Mission.

Triumvir Emphy · #2 March 16th, 2001, 10:09 PM

It's kinda funny how people say the game sucks after they cripple the AI.

[This message has been edited by Triumvir Emphy (edited 16 March 2001).]

raynor · #3 March 16th, 2001, 10:40 PM

Space Empires IV is a wondrously complex game with an almost infinite variety of ways to play the game. It is not entirely unexpected that the AI may have difficulty playing a challenging game against all possible scenarios. That's the bad news. The good news is that the AI doubles in intelligence after almost every patch.

Right now, the AI doesn't seem to be very good at using Stellar Manipulation ships. I know that I can win if I research SM early enough and close off all my wormholes. So, I don't do this. Sure, I can't wait until the AI is smart enough to counter it. But until then, I'm willing to *not* use this tactic so that I have a more challenging game against the AI.

With a game as incredible as Space Empires IV, I, personally, am willing to voluntarily restrict myself from using certain technologies and tactics until such a time in the future when the AI *does* know how to use them.

But, to be perfectly honest, I think I've already got my money's worth. If Aaron gets the AI to open/close wormholes, I'm gonna figure out a way to send him the price of the game again!

Dracus · #4 March 16th, 2001, 10:53 PM

I agree with you rayor,
Play the game at a slower pace then most. This gives the AI's time to build large number of ships and I done just go in and wipe them out. I take a system and try to use it for all it is worth before moving on to the next. this slower pace has coused me to fight over the same system several times. as the AI does come in and glass my colonies, they then colonies the sme planets and then I go in and capture them over again. I have yet to complete a 100 star system because of this.

Dracus · #5 March 16th, 2001, 11:07 PM

On a side note,

for all of you who keep comparing this game to stars or moo2. STOP IT!
First off, I have both those games and have never gotten the support that MM provides for this game. That alone makes this game worth it.
Secondly,
I feel that no other space game has allowed me to model the game to my style of role playing and actually work.

With each patch, the game play gets better.
ANd that fact that we can keep expanding the races, traits, etc makes this game fun just to model parts for. I have added each of the moded races as new races, slightly changing the ship colors and the race name as to not over write the onces that MM create. This gives races that are related to each other. If both end up in a game together, then I role play that in their past there was a civil war and the race spilt into two factions.
(wish I could figure out how to get the game to pick more then 15 races.)

Lord Felix · #6 March 17th, 2001, 12:28 AM

Er...I like the darn game, said in an earlier post I thought it was a candidate for all-time greatest game. I was hoping for some intelligent feedback on those kinds of range check errors.

MOO2 had its faults. I generally like SEIV better. But MOO2 never crashed for me...and I don't recall having to bend over backwards to do stupid things just so the AI could have a chance.

Lord Felix · #7 March 17th, 2001, 12:32 AM

And another thing...yes, I think it's terrific that Aaron has stuck with one game for half a generation. I programmed my own game and gave up after only four years, so I really admire his persistence. But with SEIV he's now really trying to play in the big, commercial leagues, and I paid full price, so it's ok to rag on the AI and the bugs. I'll bet I could make most of the range check errors vanish myself if I had the source code.

Dracus · #8 March 17th, 2001, 01:27 AM

Funny thing is that I have had the game for 4 months and have never seen a range check error.

PsychoTechFreak · #9 March 17th, 2001, 08:36 AM

I have seen range check errors before patch 4 (ver 1.30) but have never seen it with this Version. I set Maximum Number Of Systems to 255 always ,likely this could raise the possibility of such errors. I received range check errors oftentimes with ver 1.19. With ver 1.27 I have seen the Last one, it was during the "Player placement in progress..." with a Maximum Number Of Systems=255.

I observed the patch history again, and it looks like a problem with numbers with exceed or almost reach the 8bit (256) barrier:

Version 1.21:
1. Fixed - Range check error when you have 255 systems and you give
a ship orders to move to another system.

Version 1.20:
34. Fixed - Range Check Error with a large number of units in a group during combat.
35. Fixed - Range Check Error with huge numbers of shields being generated during combat.
36. Fixed - Range Check Error with a fleet of more than 256 ships during combat.

and so on... the patch history has really a lot of range check error entries

PsychoTechFreak · #10 March 17th, 2001, 09:46 AM

P.S.:
I can feel your pain, Lord Felix. It's no fun to encounter a game crashing error, especially in the later stages of a game..., but take a deep breath, calm down and then send your savegame to MM, if this error is repeatable with the latest patch. I'm absolutely confident that Aaron would be glad to fix it, and you will be addicted to SEIV again.

A game forum is the mirror of a game and its potentiality... if you compare this SEIV forum with forums of other games, like Xtension (oh boy, bloody buggy game, and most of the community is in heavy struggle with the developers, who don't seem to care about the pain in the ... , because they received their money already).

SEIV is more than just a game for me, it is kinda challenge. I will do my best to help improving the game, at some time maybe I mod a race which will be on your PC for years...