RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!

[Ragnarok]

That's right folks! The famous Return to Hell classic from PBW will soon be entering its second installment. This time it will bring new twists to the proverbial table to make things a little bit more interesting.

For those who are not familier with the first RTH game here is a little bit of history from it.

A while ago I started a game on PBW that was called Return to Hell. In this game we had 12 players and each player started in his own cluster of system (12-15 or so in each cluster) with no warp points to access the other cluters.

Technology wise we started with fulltech on meaning that every technology was available to each player from the very beginning. It was a 5 or 10 planet started as well, I don't remember which, so this meant those clusters filled quickly with planets and soon resources were more then abundant.

By the time people started leaving their clusters they had multiple, yes multiple, Sphereworlds all over their clusters. It wasn't uncommon to see multiple fleets of 500+ baseships flying around.

But by the time any major wars started breaking out, and before anyone invaded any sphereworlds the game reached a limit. PBW could no longer process the turns because the turn file was greater then 2MB! We could have continued the game by me manually processing the turns from home and then sending to everyone but this too proved to be hidious as I did not have the time to undertake the task at the current time. Therefore, we declared a 3 way (I think it was 3 way) tie between the top 3 empires in the game.

It was truely a historical game and one that will never be forgotten, by me at least. But now it is time to break those records, and bring new twists to the game. Yes, it is time for RTH2!

This time there will only be 6-10 players to help with the file size. I imagine we will have 10 players because a few of the players from RTH 1 said they would play in Version 2 once it was started.

Over the next few days I will release some information regarding this game as far as game settings and so forth. I started this thread in order to see who all will be interested in playing in this game and too possible get some ideas that we could implement into this game.

If you do have any ideas please let me know either here or by emailing me at seivgold AT yahoo DOT com.

Once I decide on how many systems and I find out how many players (max 10) will be in this game I will be needing a map maker who will not be participating to make the map for me.

Any comments and suggestions are most welcome.

[ February 18, 2004, 13:24: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Ragnarok]

Here is a little bit more information that I have for right now.

We will not be starting with full tech this time around. This will make the mid-game a little bit more interesting as players begin transforming their planets to contain monolith facilities instead of just miners. And then also they will have to begin scraping research facilities to build more miners and or monoliths.

Current sign up list:
1- Ragnarok

More information will be released as it becomes available.

Edit: Another thing I should mention is that the Last game Lasted along time, several months at the very least. Therefore, if you do not think you will be able to play your turns within the coming months on a regular basis then I strongly suggest that you do not apply to join this game. But I will not let that hinder you joining as I cannot make that decision for you.

[ January 28, 2004, 19:54: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[primitive]

Count the Primitive one in too.

May I suggest not using FQM this time ? Converting 100s of Astroides to planets get quite tedious after a while http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
That will keep the filesize down a bit too.

[Spoo]

We will not be starting with full tech this time around. This will make the mid-game a little bit more interesting as players begin transforming their planets to contain monolith facilities instead of just miners. And then also they will have to begin scraping research facilities to build more miners and or monoliths. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Would it really be the same without full tech? It seems to me that this would only make the game take much longer since I'd imagine that most players would just stay in their cluster until they'd researched most techs anyway. Not to mention, I'd consider scrapping an empire's worth of facilities tedious, not fun.

In other words - if you make it full tech, then sign me up.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

make the map small, that'll cut down on filesize to.

[Paul1980au]

Wouldnt the player be best researching into open and close warp points to get access to other players - although they would be weakened to start with in terms of those players pursuing weapons tech.

[Loser]

You could use FQM no-AST.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Spoo:
Would it really be the same without full tech? It seems to me that this would only make the game take much longer since I'd imagine that most players would just stay in their cluster until they'd researched most techs anyway. Not to mention, I'd consider scrapping an empire's worth of facilities tedious, not fun.

In other words - if you make it full tech, then sign me up. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You do have a point there Spoo. After thinking about it more it just wouldn't be RTH without it being full-tech. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif So I will we will start with all technology from the start.

Here are some other settings that can be negotiated and discussed.

Starting resources: 100000
Starting planets: 10 (Open to discussion)
Home planet value: Good
Score display: Own or allied, whichever.
Technology level: High
Racial points: 5000
Quadrant type: Custom made map.
Quadrant size: Custom made map.
Event frequency: High (Open to discussion)
Event severity: Catastrophic (Open to discussion)
Technology cost: Not applicable.
Victory conditions: Hopefully Last man standing, but allied will be acceptable if circumstances do not allow anything else.
Maximum units: Till the game will allow no more.
Maximum ships: Till the game will allow no more.
Other game settings: Intel will be off.
Surrender will be allowed but only to the player whom is whooping your arse at the particular time. If in the event of two players beating you with an ugly stick then something will need to be decided. I am open to suggestions in this regard.
No locking yourself in; either by system shields or by warp point max.

Regarding the map. I agree that we shouldn't use FQM this time. Having that many planets was rather tidious to keep track of and everything. I liked Geo's idea of;
How about a modified quadrant type with a fewer overall number of planets, but larger then normal proportion of huge planets. You could get some really staggaring size military forces without the corespondingly large number of planets to deal with.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm sure once Sphereworlds come Online that regular planets will play less and less of an important roll, so having large numbers of planets will be kind of redundant in a way. I'm thinking somewhere in the area of 100-200 total planets per cluster will be more then enough.

[geoschmo]

How about a modified quadrant type with a fewer overall number of planets, but larger then normal proportion of huge planets. You could get some really staggaring size military forces without the corespondingly large number of planets to deal with.

[Ragnarok]

*Bump*

Revised list of players:
1 - Ragnarok
2 - Primitive
3 - Spoo(?)
4 -
5 -
6 -
7 -
8 -
9 -
10 -

Anyone else interested? The rest of the game settings will probably be decided when we get our final group of players together.

Also still looking for a map maker.

[tesco samoa]

well you know i am back...

as for the map i can make another one... as it really does not matter if people know the map... since we all build and lock away anyways.... and the map will be available for view...

maybe that selection that we all can kind of see the map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

I figured you would be back Tesco, but I didn't want to assume it. You know how that saying goes... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If you're willing to make the map that is fine with me. As long as everyone else is ok with it. I don't see any problems with having a player make it as long as everyone has a chance to look at it so there are no unfair advantages. But as you said, in this game there is no huge advantage to knowing the map before anyone else.

I've been racking my brain trying to think of something to do with the map that will make things more interesting but I cannot think of anything. I will let you know if something comes up though. As has been discussed the clusters shouldn't have nearly as many planets as Last time. I think we should have around 10-12 systems in each cluster but only have a total of no more then 200 planets in each cluster.

Revised list of players:
1 - Ragnarok
2 - Primitive
3 - Spoo(?)
4 - Tesco
5 -
6 -
7 -
8 -
9 -
10 -

[Renegade 13]

If you don't mind having someone relatively new to PBW in the game, I'd like to join. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Renegade 13:
If you don't mind having someone relatively new to PBW in the game, I'd like to join. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you are up to the challenge that is good enough for me to allow you to join. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Is your PBW handle the same as here at the forums?

Revised list of players:
1 - Ragnarok
2 - Primitive
3 - Spoo(?)
4 - Tesco
5 - Renegade 13
6 -
7 -
8 -
9 -
10 -

[Renegade 13]

I think I'm up to the challenge. And yep, Renegade 13 is my PBW name, the same as here. (I'm assuming that was what you were asking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) Although for some reason, sometimes it only shows up as Renegade http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif Don't really know why.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Renegade 13:
(I'm assuming that was what you were asking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) Although for some reason, sometimes it only shows up as Renegade http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif Don't really know why. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup, that is what I was asking. I just needed to know so that when I set up the game I know who is supposed to be allowed to join.

[Spoo]

By all means, sign me up!

[edit:] How long will turns be?

[ January 30, 2004, 18:32: Message edited by: Spoo ]

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Spoo:
By all means, sign me up!

[edit:] How long will turns be? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmm good question. No more then 72 hours for sure, but I would like to have 36 or 48 hour turns. But I will leave it up to majority vote.

Revised list of players:
1 - Ragnarok
2 - Primitive
3 - Spoo
4 - Tesco
5 - Renegade 13
6 -
7 -
8 -
9 -
10 -

[tesco samoa]

i think we should do it on a grade for the turns

1. turns 1 to 40 --- 48 hours max 36 is good but no less as these games are very time consuming
2. after that those that remain vote on increases... as some of the turns do become very time consuming if you have not had the nack of automating everything...

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
i think we should do it on a grade for the turns

1. turns 1 to 40 --- 48 hours max 36 is good but no less as these games are very time consuming
2. after that those that remain vote on increases... as some of the turns do become very time consuming if you have not had the nack of automating everything... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree with you on this system. The first turn will be on LPU though to make sure starting everything runs smoothly. Turns 2 to X (probably 40 as you said) will be 36 hours and then later in the game we can go to 48 for said reasons.

[Electrum]

This game looks interesting. Please, Sign the Electrum Up!

[Spoo]

Here's another question. Is Religious Tech a "no-no" or a "must have"? With 5000 racial pts and full tech, it's very tempting.

The proposed turn lengths sound good to me.

[primitive]

In the first RTH, most people took religious and I will take it again if its not Banned (and Tesco will promise not to ***** about it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). With the massive numbers of ships this kind of games will generate, keeping track of trained/untrained ships is a nightmare, the talisman makes this redundant. Anything that reduces micromanagement is good in these huge games. And then of course there is the Natureshrine. Getting those babies up early can really make a difference to resource generating.

Temporal is good too for the Shipyards (you get those for free on your starting planets) and the shield damaging weapons.
Organic for its cheap ships.
Crystalline for its Armor, Maintanance reduction facility and the Solar collector
Don't see much use for Psycic though (unless religious is Banned).

Anyway:
Here is some personal records from RTH1 which I will try to break http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
Resources: 35,4 Mill
Planets: 739 (of which 33 was Ringworlds)
Ships: 2584 (+ a bunch that was mothballed)
Bases: 1806 (Almost all shipyards)

[Karibu]

Count me in. I agree the point primitive made. Talisman and nature shrine are the most unbalanging techs in the game, so if religious is allowed, I suggest either tech is Banned from using. I suggest that Talisman is forbidden.

Also I suggest that any human player is not allowed to demand Computer players to surrender. This way some players can get quite big advantage.

Furthermore we need strick rules how much we are allowed to use System shields. Is one access point from sealed cluster away enough? Or are they Banned all together? Are we alloved to seal system by making 10 warp points in there?

My suggestions as list are:
1. either religious trait or talisman itself is Banned
2. Human must not demand AI players to surrender
3. We could use Fyron's Devnull mod. It makes fighters, missiles and mines more usable.
4. Do we wait until the next patch is released? Hopefully it comes out soon. Also we can update the game during turn executions like we did Last time.

Primitive, here are my stats. They are not as good as yours, but close http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Resources: 20,5 Mill
Planets: 805 (of which 12 was Sphereworlds + >10 under construction)
Ships: 2402 (+ a bunch that was mothballed also)
Units: 31400
Bases: 2134 (Almost all shipyards).
Population: 730,3B

[ February 01, 2004, 11:31: Message edited by: Karibu ]

[tesco samoa]

there is a difference about *****ing and complaining about losing 1000 base ships in a few turns Primative http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Renegade 13]

How many game turns did the first RTH run? To get numbers like the ones below, it had to have been a long time!

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
there is a difference about *****ing and complaining about losing 1000 base ships in a few turns Primative http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, the difference is which side you were on. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[primitive]

Originally posted by Renegade 13:
How many game turns did the first RTH run? To get numbers like the ones below, it had to have been a long time! <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">144 before it got too big for PBW. It was nowhere near finished.

[Karibu]

Primitive is right. We were just (me and him, the biggest races in the game) developing an execuse for a war, when the game collapsed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif I wanted so much those tasty lizard steaks I was now denied http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I am truly disappointed that I didin't witness/fight any major battles. I think the biggest ones I have participated have been 200 ships max on other side (both sides counted less than 400). I think it will change in the next game.

[corrected few typos]

[ February 01, 2004, 19:26: Message edited by: Karibu ]

[Fyron]

So why did you not just continue it with a PBW alternate site? It would not have the 2 MB limit that PBW does.

[Karibu]

Is there another site to play in? I haven't been aware of this until now. Please, tell us more. This new game will propably face same fate like the first one with current server, I'm afraid.

[Phoenix-D]

With only 10 people and sans the FQM insantity, it probably won't get as bad.

[primitive]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
So why did you not just continue it with a PBW alternate site? It would not have the 2 MB limit that PBW does. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The game was just too frigging big. Doing the turns became truly "Return to Hell". With 6 large empires left there was no end in sight, and while we could have stretched it a bit longer there was no way this game could ever finish. Better to start over with a clean sheet and let the fighting begin a bit earlier this time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Paul1980au]

The site needs to increase it limits !

[Ragnarok]

Ok, I have contemplated some of the dicussions that have taken place here and I'm nearing decisions.

Size limits: If this game gets too large for PBW I will be using Ruatha's PHP script to run the turns from either our server here at work or possible asking someone else to host it for me. But until that time it will be run on PBW.

Religious: It sounds like the majority would like to see this Banned for this game. If that is the case it will indeed be Banned. Some more input will be required to make a decision. My personal vote is to ban it but as usual I will go with majority vote for this.

As for the reasoning that Primitive put to the table about training and it being a pain to keep track of all of this. I'd say get rid of training centers as well and make it so you only gain exp. by winning battles and so forth. Ideas on this are welcome.

Turtles: When it comes to using System Shields you must leave at least one system open for warping in. But the more I think about this if we did it like this, then it would be easy to just build a huge fleet(s) in that system and then no one would be able to get in and attempt an attack. Therefore I think I will ban the use of the system shield in this game.

Patch: The game will probably not be started until after the next patch is released. Unless, of course, we can get things organized sooner then that.

I believe that is it for now. If I forgot anything let me know.

Revised list of players:
1 - Ragnarok
2 - Primitive
3 - Spoo
4 - Tesco
5 - Renegade 13
6 - Electrum
7 - Karibu
8 -
9 -
10 -

[Phoenix-D]

Banning the system shield is going to make for a chaotic game. You might not get the type of fleet actions you're looking for- just open warp point, send in fleet with star destroyer, boom.

Perhaps a small mod to make the system shields not stop warp points?

[tesco samoa]

i say keep training and keep the talisman... just drop a hint that it would be really smart for players to take religous... Training is easy... send ships to training centre... have them hang around in training fleet if there is a moon then fleets, ships train at 6% So... you have 5 training fleets ... 1 dummy ship that stays in the fleet... So Train fleet 1 to 5... And then your real fleet... So on turn 1 all ships that arrive go into train fleet 1... 2 for turn 2 , 3 for turn 3, 4 for turn 4... On turn 5 fill train fleet 5 and then move the ships out of train fleet 1 ( except for the dummy ) and move them into the real fleet... On turn 6 you dump the new ships into train fleet 1 and move out the ones from train fleet 2.... Very easy and easy to follow...

or ban religous and advanced military science...

I would like to keep the system shields... I see no wrong in killing your warp point out to a bad universe and then opening another one up somewhere else... ITs a big game and we all want to set up our systems.... All were going to do then is just create 10 warp points between each of our systems... So just keep the system shields... I like to build my defences to see how they will hold out... ( as I never got to use them in the Last game... I would like to see it this game )

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Banning the system shield is going to make for a chaotic game. You might not get the type of fleet actions you're looking for- just open warp point, send in fleet with star destroyer, boom.

Perhaps a small mod to make the system shields not stop warp points? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I never thought about the star destroyer. When I think of system shield I think of stopped warp points being opened and closed. But you are right about that part P-D. So I think with that in view that system shields will be allowed but you must leave at least one system open.

It looks like the majority will vote for religious so we will leave that in. Training stays as well, doing it Tesco's way is rather simple really. I'm sure most players will knot that you pretty much will need to take religous trait to have a chance to play in the late game. Well, you wouldn't need to, but it is taking a large risk not taking it.

Hopefully this week I will find time to write up a story background for this game. That brings up another point, I would like to encourage roleplaying if possible. It will add a little bit more flavor to the game.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by Karibu:
Is there another site to play in? I haven't been aware of this until now. Please, tell us more. This new game will propably face same fate like the first one with current server, I'm afraid. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ruatha developed some PHP scripts for use when the PBW server goes on hiatus to set up alternate sites so that games can be continued. http://pbw.spaceempires.net/ was hosting several of these the Last time PBW went on an extended vacation, for example.

[Renegade 13]

I'm all for leaving Religious in, but isn't it going to be a little redundant? Everyone is going to take it, therefore there's no real advantage for anyone. Of course, you still have the religious facilities which are a great advantage themselves.

[Karibu]

I suggest that religious should be Banned because EVERY sane person will take it. Without it there will be more diVersion in empire designs. However, I accept whatever you decide. Also I remind that asking AI to surrender should be Banned. I know that because Last game I got few empires rather easy that way (it wasn't even fun anymore).

[ February 02, 2004, 16:22: Message edited by: Karibu ]

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Karibu:
Also I remind that asking AI to surrender should be Banned. I know that because Last game I got few empires rather easy that way (it wasn't even fun anymore). <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for the reminder. I forgot to address that issue, but surrender will be off. Not only for AI purposes but also for humans. If a human sees he is going to get whooped and he doesn't want to continue on, he can simply withdraw and the rest of his empire will be ran by the AI and people will be able to plunder it and take what they can for themselves. (ie, greed is encouraged in those situations) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I'm still a little torn between what to do with religous. I will wait for more feedback before a final decision is made. If it is Banned I think we should just mod out the talisman and keep the other facilities available to those who want to spend the points to get them.

[tesco samoa]

if a human player is going to get hammered... they should surrender to the attacker....

if it is more than 2 empires attacking they can work out the details... and if their not happy attack each other ....

I vote for surrender... Why drag it out ???

[Spoo]

It doesn't matter to me if Religious is in or not. If it is, then I'm taking it.

However, I do vote that the option for player to see all systems be turned off. Otherwise the planets screen will be too crowded to be of much use in sending colony ships quickly.

A notable side effect of being able to see all systems would be that it would also let us see where ring/sphereworld were constructed and any planet name changes before we've even visited the system.

But if you like that idea, then I suggest that you turn on "view all scores", so that we can all marvell at the size of each others' Doom Fleet.

[primitive]

My humble opinions.

Surrender; OK to the player who hammers you but only when you are truly done for (riot problems).
Make any (hopefully there will be none) early abandoned empires free game, but make it illegal to ask them for surrender.

Religious; I really don't care one way or the other. Just wanted to make a point of no *****ing (sorry Tesco http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) by those brave souls that didn't take it. If we use a no Talisman mod, I may spend the 1500 points just for the Nature Shrine anyway.

I do like the no Training option (ban Advanced Mil. Science) but then we have to ban (or mod) Psychic too.

Turtling is for cowards. The Horde will always keep a door (or two) open. Beer and Pretzels for everyone.
(BTW: Beer is a class of Baseships, Pretzels are Dreads http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Don't like Spoo's idea of "view all scores" at all, but I would not have a problem with leaving the Position or even the Score viewable on PBW. Getting info about the other guys empires is half the fun.

And absolutely no "all systems can be seen by all players".

[Phoenix-D]

You can't just make it "illegal" for them to surrender because surrender can't be refused and the AI WILL surrender.

[Ragnarok]

Surrender; OK to the player who hammers you but only when you are truly done for (riot problems).
Make any (hopefully there will be none) early abandoned empires free game, but make it illegal to ask them for surrender.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree with this 100% but the point that P-D brings out comes into play here. If the AI surrenders then you have no choice but to accept it. Hopefully we won't have any problems with AI as long as everyone keeps with this game. But I think that if it comes down to someone needing to surrender then they should just gift all that they have to you. It shouldn't take but a few minutes to go through and be click-happy and select all their ships and planets. Whatever is left after that is open for all to plunder.

Religious; I would like more input still before final decision is made. I am sure some of us will take religious even if the talisman is taken out due to as Primitive brought out the Nature Shrine

I do like the no Training option (ban Advanced Mil. Science) but then we have to ban (or mod) Psychic too.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I may not be seeing something here. Why would we have to ban or mod Psychic if we ban Advanced Mil. Science? It's probably rather obvious but I just am not seeing it right now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Don't like Spoo's idea of "view all scores" at all, but I would not have a problem with leaving the Position or even the Score viewable on PBW. Getting info about the other guys empires is half the fun.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I won't turn on the view all scores option. I do not like the fact that you can gain knowledge that detailed in-game. In this type of game you could end up using that to pick and choose who you can fight against and have a decent shot at winning.
I'm not sure about the position and score option being on on PBW even. I may end up turning that option on though.

And absolutely no "all systems can be seen by all players". <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agreed. This was a mistake that I made in RTH1 that I won't make again. The same is for saving the map, you were able to save the map and look at it to find out where all the sphereworlds were and so forth. Won't happen this time around.

[primitive]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">
I do like the no Training option (ban Advanced Mil. Science) but then we have to ban (or mod) Psychic too.<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I may not be seeing something here. Why would we have to ban or mod Psychic if we ban Advanced Mil. Science? It's probably rather obvious but I just am not seeing it right now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Psychic training facilities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

They train all ships/fleets within the system and will still be available after Advanced Military Science is disabled.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by primitive:
]The Psychic training facilities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

They train all ships/fleets within the system and will still be available after Advanced Military Science is disabled. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh! Man, I guess that shows how long it has been since I have played with a Psychic race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

I think we will end up playing with a small mod for this game. Modding out the talisman (should that be the decision) so that the rest of the Religious tree is available for anyone to use. Also modding out the training centers in the Psychic tree as well.

[Spoo]

What's wrong with training? It's not that hard to keep track of with waypoints and such. Plus, If a player wants to be lazy they can just take Psychic.

If you take away Psychic's training facility, the trait becomes very poor.

I think we should deviate from a stock game as little as possible. Barring that, we should just switch to a full mod where issues like the Talisman have already been addressed.

[tesco samoa]

So the Last map... did not have see everything turned on... So you could not see the sphere worlds etc... That I know... Perhaps you were ancient..

I would rather keep the training in instead of a mod... I do not know why we would get rid of it.

I would rather have view own score all the time...

For the surreneder option... if you mark the player dead on PBW the computer will fight it out to the bitter end...

But truefully I think that if a player wishes to surreneder to a player they send that player and the game admin an email about it... If they all agree then surreneder. No one likes to stick around and waste time on a game when they are done. Very understandable. ( Or you could just mark the empire as dead ,,,, If you have the no surreneder option for the game turned on... So the player will still have to take the time to take out the computer player ... )


As for the Talisman... if we state no talisman and leave religous in... then the player cannot put it on their ships/units...

If they do then a good rule would be for the turn to be reset and all those ships and units must be gifted to the other player and then they scrap them... ( bonus of the resources )

A heafty price indeed for not following the rules... But I do not think it would be broken again.

The only problem there is a computer controled empire... But they are useless so they should not be a threat to the player anyways.


If were not playing stock..

How about the latest Version of the sweet mod... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Which is being released this Friday..

[Spoo]

What's the sweet mod?

[Renegade 13]

Training....doesn't really matter to me. There's really no difference if its on or off, because you can bet everyone is going to train their ships/fleets to the max before sending them out. So the training bonuses will be cancelling each other out.

As for scores, I think we should keep scores to 'own' only. No seeing all scores, or even the scores of your allies.

Surrender really doesn't matter to me.

And DEFINITELY no all systems can be seen by all players.

[Karibu]

I would hate to leave training out because some people are too lazy to organize training by themselves. Like said, Psychic is for them to go. And I'm not sure they would like to play RTH anyway, for it will be the micromanager's dream (I know the Last game was). However, leaving it away would give Attack and Defence traits more value and people would use a lot of points for them. That could be interesting.

I support the idea of banning talisman but leaving Religious. I don't think we need to mod it out, because everyone could see if it would be used so it would not be "unnoticed cheating". The nature shrine is propably the most valuable building in whole game, so religious trait would still be tempting.

How about gifts? I say we keep them on. I like the idea of supporting both sides of the war and watch them fighting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Ragnarok]

Ok, I think I have made my decision on most areas that we've been discussing.

Religious; this trait will be available to use but talisman will be Banned. To keep things simple we will not mod it out, if you are caught using it the penalty will be very high. So I suggest not using it!

Surrender; I will allow surrender to be enabled. But if you are being beaten badly enough to the point where you want to surrender you must approach not only player beating you but also the game admin. This will make sure we don't have any situations as we did in the Last game.

Score; this will be left at only seeing your own score in-game.

Gifts; gifts will be allowed.

Ruins; will be turned off. (Unless everyone wants it)

Training; will be left on. It looks like the majority are in favor of it.

We still need at least 1 more player for this game, and up to a maximum of 3 more then what we currently have.
Revised list of players:
1 - Ragnarok
2 - Primitive
3 - Spoo
4 - Tesco
5 - Renegade 13
6 - Electrum
7 - Karibu
8 -
9 -
10 -

As soon as map is finished and we have the Last player(s) then we will probably get started.

[tesco samoa]

5000 points again with no intel ??

Full tech game ruins do not matter ... and they can give a few goodies as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
5000 points again with no intel ??

Full tech game ruins do not matter ... and they can give a few goodies as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup, 5K points with no intel.

[Karibu]

I have to say that I an travelling from 20th february to 29th february and I am not able to play during that time. I would not like to skip that many turns at the very beginning of the game so I suggest we wait until 1st of march to start the game. Also the patch might be published by then (I think it is coming soon, but I have no knowledge of it, though). However, I do as you decide.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Karibu:
I have to say that I an travelling from 20th february to 29th february and I am not able to play during that time. I would not like to skip that many turns at the very beginning of the game so I suggest we wait until 1st of march to start the game. Also the patch might be published by then (I think it is coming soon, but I have no knowledge of it, though). However, I do as you decide. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That'll work fine. It will allow more time for the map to be made and everything else worked out as far as settings.

[Ragnarok]

Ok, I took some time to come up with a little bit of a story for this game. Let me know what you think of it.

Millennia ago your race was once the center of the galaxy. You spent decades building your empire within the privacy of your own cluster of star systems that the Ancient Ones had placed you in. The Ancient Ones had left great texts that spoke of other races in the universe that were doing just as you were; building a great empire. These texts also spoke of a day when all races taking a great journey out of their clusters.

Your race had finally decided that this was the time period in which to embark on this quest of universal conquest. You designed and built great technology that enabled you to create artificial warp gates that would allow you to take this journey and link your clusters wither other clusters.

Little did you realize that these other races were ready for this day. They too had built massive empires within their clusters. Many races made first contact and many wars had broken loose. There were few treaties made during this time, no one wanted to become unprepared for the inevitable.

For decades wars raged on until one day two prominent races stood out above all others. They had grown to such a point that they could not be stopped. Over the next few centuries they nearly exterminated the other races that once ruled in their respective clusters.

Once it reached this point the Ancient Ones decided it was time to intervene. They stopped the wars in time to spare a few of many of the races. Some of the races once known, however, were destroyed and would never rise again. The Ancient Ones decided it was time to start again, this time to see if peace would be possible.

They restored the universe to what it once was before the wars broke out. Despite the best efforts by the two races that dominated the universe at this time the Ancient Ones overcame them and plundered much of their empires. Never did these think their empires could fall so quickly.

The Ancient Ones returned you to another cluster and limited you to just a handful of planets. You kept much of your technological data but lost much more. In the case of the few empires that lost everything the Ancient Ones brought in other races from different universes' to replace these ones. They knew that one day the universe would return to its deplorable state of war and conquest… yes, they knew one day it would Return to Hell!


And by the way, we still need at least 1 more player to start. If we don't have a player by then we will go ahead with just 7 but I would like to have 8. Starting date is tentatively March 1st.

[Karibu]

The story is great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif I hope I won't meet the ancient ones any more, for they are devious creatures http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Ragnarok]

*bump*

For all the players that have already committed themselves to this game; the game is now set up on PBW so that we can begin the joining process and have it all set up by the start day in a few weeks. Game title is Return to Hell 2.

[Ragnarok]

Still have 3 slots open for this game.

[Ragnarok]

We still have 3 open slots for this game. Read through this thread to find some of the details for the game. It will truely be an epic and record setting game for SEIV! It will start in roughly 2 weeks from now!

[tesco samoa]

what is the punishments ???

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
what is the punishments ??? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In the case of using the talisman the turn may be rolled back if it is needed in order to correct the situation. You will also be required to gift your ships to the empire you attempted to use it against. So not only are you hurting yourself by losing those ships but you are helping your enemy by giving the ships to them. But the person receiving the ships will be required to either a) scrap the ships for the resources or b) refit the ships to remove the talisman.
As of right now that is the primary punishment for using the talisman but potentially harsher punishments can be thought up. (Suggestions?)

[tesco samoa]

i was thinking about the talisman issue.

One problem with gifting them is that the players economy might collaspe if it is a 500 ship fleet.

Then they have to move it. and scrap it.

Perhaps a better solution would be roll the turn back.

The player who used the talisman must take all the ships ( verified by a 3rd party who is not playing in the game ) to their nearest base. or base ship yard. And then scrap them.

Also they must pay the player who they attacked the maintence for those ships for 4 turns.

Natually all the other players will know about this and public flogging will commence.

If it happens a second time ( Say after a 4 turn grace ) Then the player should be removed from the game. His ships scrapped ( with talisman). Empire turned over to another player to take over.

Just some ideas


Now the always open warp point.

what happens if I close one off... And then open another one and it turns out i cannot open a warp point to that system.

So I try another one the turn after and it opens

Should there be punishment for that ?

[Ragnarok]

I like your ideas for punishment for using the talisman. I will write up in more detail something along those lines to put into effect for this game.

Originally posted by tesco samoa:

what happens if I close one off... And then open another one and it turns out i cannot open a warp point to that system.

So I try another one the turn after and it opens

Should there be punishment for that ? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't feel there should be. As long as you are honestly trying to open up a warp point to another system that very turn. Now if you go 3, 4, or 5 turns in a row and still haven't opened one then there should be a penalty to pay I think.

[Spoo]

Are there any restrictions on using retrofit-series to quickly construct sphereworlds?

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Spoo:
Are there any restrictions on using retrofit-series to quickly construct sphereworlds? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you want to spend the cash to do so then feel free. But since we have some realitive new ones in this game I think it would only be fair if we told them the process and exactly what retroseries is. I am not an expert at it so I will allow someone else who is better qualified to explain it. If there are players who do not know how to do this and no one is willing to explain it then I will have discourage the use of retroseries; but I doubt we will have a problem with that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Spoo]

I've never tried it, but figured this game might be a good place to give it a shot.

The basic idea is that to retrofit a ship to a new design, the new design can only cost so much more than the original (I think it's 125%). However, you can give a ship unlimited retrofit orders in a turn.

So you build the cheapest starbase that you can. Then retrofit to a design that costs 125% more, then on the same turn, you retrofit it to another design that costs 125% more than the first retrofit, etc. Viola, you have the starbases to build your sphereworld in a fraction of the time it takes to build them straight. The downside? It costs a ridiculous amount of resources to do this, since you're paying for each retrofit.

[ February 11, 2004, 19:34: Message edited by: Spoo ]

[Fyron]

Max cost difference for retrofits is 150%, not 125%. Also, it is a difference in the total resource cost, not each resource individually.

In simultaneous movement games, a retrofit order deletes all previous orders that a ship had. So, you can only do one step in the retroseries per turn.

[ February 11, 2004, 19:37: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[tesco samoa]

Last game i built a ton of space ships to do it for each star...

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Last game i built a ton of space ships to do it for each star... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is how I did it. I had 50+ ships at any given time building bases.

[Ragnarok]

I did some searching and found a thread that deals with this tatic. It explains it in good detail.
It is located right here. (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=008038;p=3)

[Spoo]

Well I had the basic idea right...

Thanks for the clarification Fyron. Too bad it doesn't seem as useful in simultaneous games (so much for my 3 turn sphereworlds).

[solops]

Never heard of this.

It doesn't sound "right".

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by solops:
Never heard of this.

It doesn't sound "right". <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That of retroseries? Some consider it to be 'gamey' but some do not. I only consider it to be that way if the game bans the use of it obviously. In a game such as RTH I don't think it will matter that much since worlds will most likely produce at a high rate anyway.

[tesco samoa]

so are we going to wait for the patch and then create and start the game.

If it is coming out within the next 3 or 4 weeks I vote for wait

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
so are we going to wait for the patch and then create and start the game.

If it is coming out within the next 3 or 4 weeks I vote for wait <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The game wasn't going to start until March 1st. I heard that the patch will be out sometime this month so if that is the case then we shall wait for the patch. But if the patch isn't out until after March 1st we will go ahead and wait for it to come. So either way we will play this game under the new patch.

[Ragnarok]

What does everyone think of Ancient race? Should we ban it?

[primitive]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
What does everyone think of Ancient race? Should we ban it? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ban it.

Its too good to not take, and very boring to have.

[Spoo]

It's fine with me if you leave ancient race. I'm not going to take it and ruin my ability to use the planets window to colonize my cluster.

[Loser]

Originally posted by Spoo:
I'm not going to take it and ruin my ability to use the planets window to colonize my cluster. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can just use the Planets window with Don't Show Systems to Avoid, set your ships to ignor the Systems to Avoid, and make excessive use of the Systems to Avoid feature in Empire Options.

. . .

or not.

[Ragnarok]

I think we will put a ban on ancient race. It will ruin too much of the fun and mystery in the game.

[Ragnarok]

Cirvol has joined up for this game.
Once we have all our players signed up and ready to go I will send out a news item from PBW for the final game settings, most are in place right now but some things could change if players wish.

We now have 2 open slots of any who wish to join this game.

[Ragnarok]

The game has filled its 10 slots. As soon as we have a map, and the new patch is released we will start the game. Start thinking about your empire setups! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

Here are the game settings I've updated on the game page on PBW.

Starting resources: 100000
Starting planets: 10
Home planet value: Good
Score display: Own
Technology level: High
Racial points: 5000
Event frequency: Medium
Event severity: Catastrophic
Victory conditions: Last man standing (See below)
Maximum units: Unlimited
Maximum ships: Unlimited
Other game settings:

Surrender to be enabled. But if you are being beaten badly enough to the point where you want to surrender you must approach not only the player beating you but also the game admin. This will make sure we don't have any situations as we did in the Last game.

There will be no Intel in this game.

Religious; this trait will be allowed but the Talisman will be Banned. It will not be modded out of the game but if you are caught using it you will suffer great consequences.

No turtelling! You must leave at least 1 system open for warp points to come in and out of. Turtling will be punished as well.

Ancient race is Banned.

Winning condition; this is Last man standing with a max alliance of 2 players at the end. We will play until it seems right to end the game.

Partnerships; only 1 partnership can be made between players. If you want to have partnerships with 1 player, and military alliances with the rest that is fine but only one partnership treaty.

The Last 2 players will be nagged by PBW automatically. You will also recieve notification when there are just 4 hours left until the turn will be processed. So please do not ask my why I send out an e-mail should you be one of the Last to upload. This is automated by PBW!

Vacation; If you are going to be away for an extended period of time during the course of this game I ask that you please notify me in the forums or by e-mail so that I do not kick you from the game. In some cases we may be able to put the game on LPU but in this game it will Last along time so missing 2 or 3 turns shouldn't hurt too badly if you set your empire up correctly before you leave and fill all of your queues.

If you miss more then 4 turns without notifying me and giving me a reason for the missed turns I will kick you and find a replacement player. So please let me know if you will be gone.

--
If you have any suggestions as to more rules we need to implement to prevent problems later in the game I'm open to them.

[ February 18, 2004, 13:25: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Cirvol]

As an idea - whynot just mod the talisman down to something like +75% ?

Otherwise, does just 'removing' it from fair play weaken the religous trait too much?


Glad to see you all in this uber game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[tesco samoa]

Last man standing please... no alliances of 2 at the end.

And I request we turn off the events As they can ruin a game

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Last man standing please... no alliances of 2 at the end.

And I request we turn off the events As they can ruin a game <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Alright, no alliances at all. The more I think about it the more I would like it this way, that will assure this will be an even greater game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I will change the game description.

Events will be turned off unless we get more individuals choosing to keep it on; if it is kept in the game it will be set on low and with the severity and low as well.

Cirvol - The Religious trait will still be helpful in the game with all of the Shrines you get from it. The Nature Shrine is the best of the 5 but they are all good, IMO. Not having the Talisman will not criple the trait.

I thought about modding it out or to tone it down but I would like to keep this game as stock as possible.

Tesco - Are you still willing to make the map for us? If so we will need 10 clusters of around 10 systems each and a total amount of planets in each cluster around 150 or so. Let me know if I should find someone else to make the map.

[Spoo]

I agree with Tesco, no events.

This is going to be good.

[tesco samoa]

I can create one with the new koth map mod i am working on.

Do we want an all planet map ??? That way each player will get around the same planets within each cluster ?

This should be talked about.

I can post a few examples for the players to look at and see if they like it or not.

This will also help with the dicussion. So tonight or tomorrow I will post 10 maps. And we can all vote on them using weight options. Then we can tally the numbers up and that can be the map. If you think that is a good idea.

[Spoo]

Sounds good to me. I think something beyond just all planets would be fun. Say one trinary star system per cluster (mmm triple-sphereworld system http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) Asteroids would be good in moderation. Gives a use for planet-creators (especialy if if the asteroids have higher resource values than an average planet).

[Electrum]

By no alliances, do you mean at the end of the game, or through he whole game?

[Cirvol]

oh yeah, one more thing - no quitting or surrendering or anything that will 'unbalance' the game for the rest of the players

i think you're all pretty hard core, which is good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

just make sure no one does anything stupid like get pissed off due an early war and quit - it kinda wrecks it for the rest of us

kthx http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[tesco samoa]

good thing about people who qiut like that is they are not invited back and their name is passed around to a few other pbw hosts

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Electrum:
By no alliances, do you mean at the end of the game, or through he whole game? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just by the end of the game. You can have alliances through the game but when it comes down to deciding who wins the game it will be only 1 player so alliances will fall.

Tesco - I like the idea for choosing the maps. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

[Ragnarok]

*bump*

Is there anything else that we need to discuss before we start?

[tesco samoa]

I should have the maps done by friday.... For a look over and vote.... If not it will be sunday.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
I should have the maps done by friday.... For a look over and vote.... If not it will be sunday. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Alright, that will be perfect.

[primitive]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
*bump*

Is there anything else that we need to discuss before we start? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Don't think so. With a nice map everything should be OK.

Good luck to everybody. I have kept the Horde on a low fat diet since the end of RTH1 and they are veeeery huuungry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[tesco samoa]

hmmm strange when i delete systems in the map editor it moves the stuff to other systems So this is very bizzare....

[tesco samoa]

hmm.... bump

[tesco samoa]

hmm.... bump

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
hmmm strange when i delete systems in the map editor it moves the stuff to other systems So this is very bizzare.... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is very strange. I have never seen the map editor do something like that before. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[geoschmo]

Why are you bumping? Are you looking for a comment on something?

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by tesco samoa:
hmmm strange when i delete systems in the map editor it moves the stuff to other systems So this is very bizzare.... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is very strange. I have never seen the map editor do something like that before. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have. It's always done that. Just one more in the long list of bugs in the map editor. You have to delete all the objects in the system first and then delete the system.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by geoschmo:
I have. It's always done that. Just one more in the long list of bugs in the map editor. You have to delete all the objects in the system first and then delete the system. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I see, I guess I just haven't used the map editor enough to see these sorts of problems.

[tesco samoa]

thanks geo... delete the objects first.

[tesco samoa]

Do you know if all the objects go to the same system ??? if so would it not be easier to delete all the systems and then go to the bit bucket system and create 10 warp points to itself ??

[Spoo]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Do you know if all the objects go to the same system ??? if so would it not be easier to delete all the systems and then go to the bit bucket system and create 10 warp points to itself ?? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Huh? Crazy map-maker talk!

[tesco samoa]

this is holding up the maps... it will be sunday now... sorry people

[Electrum]

what's the word, Thunderbird?

[tesco samoa]

the maps will be posted in about 4 to 5 hours.

One day of voting by the players...

[tesco samoa]

4 maps (http://www.tescosamoa.com/Shipsets/zips/pbw/simon.zip)

Man I have had zero time and many set backs in the map world

4 maps..

Each system has the same amount of planets... each player has the same amount of systems.

This is balance.

There is one random planet per system http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif this is not balance.

I think they could be fun maps for this game. As it is a slug fest. To think otherwise is a mistake

[Spoo]

Wow, that really is an obscene number of planets in each system. How many planets does each player get?

The only real difference between maps I noticed was that "clust5.map" had several empty systems that are effectively free for the taking for any empire that wants to bother to warp in, ignite a star, and build a sphereworld. I guess they could also end up being the major battle fields, since it would be hard to get a system shield up and running in these systems in any reasonable time. I suppose "clust5.map" is my favorite, although I'd prefer less planets per system.

I guess I was just expecting a "conventional" map, except with balanced planet numbers.

Edit: I don't mean to sound harsh, Tesco. I do appreciate the fact that you made these maps for us.

[ March 01, 2004, 04:47: Message edited by: Spoo ]

[tesco samoa]

well here i am sitting here waiting to be paged back for a problem from work.

the other maps do not have that many planets

well 3 of them have about 1/3 that number

and the Last 3 maps are just plain old stock maps

i just did not have time to clean them up yet.

since i am waiting for the call back from work i will work on the stock maps

[tesco samoa]

ps what is a conventional map ??

[tesco samoa]

smaller planet cluster (http://www.tescosamoa.com/Shipsets/zips/pbw/sclust1.zip)

Here is one of the smaller plaent ones... with lots of empty systems...

this one is my score of 10

check this one out. not as many planets... but 100% balanced from what i can tell

[Spoo]

Yes, I do like "sclust1.map" better. It has more breathing room, and I like the empty "war zone" systems. The idea of all huge worlds is interesting. It may not be pretty to look at (IMHO), but I do like the idea of all that cargo space.

ps what is a conventional map ?? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would define "convential" as what SE4 would give me when I click on "generate map". (With or without Fyron's Quadrant Mod)

and the Last 3 maps are just plain old stock maps

I just did not have time to clean them up yet. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ah, this may be what I'm looking for. I'm eager to see how these turn out. I didn't realize that you still had more maps to post.

[tesco samoa]

Spoo the first RTH game had on average 25 to 30 planets a system. So even map #5 with all those planets will not come close to the hell of game 1.

Were talking I was a minor power with 800 planets or something like that.

5 more maps to come later today. so we can vote

[Ragnarok]

I think it is between clust5 and sclust1 for the final maps. I like how sclust1 is set up but I also like how clust5 has some more planets. I will go with the majority vote between those two.

Edit: Thanks for putting so much work into these maps tesco. I really do appreciate it!

[ March 01, 2004, 14:21: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Problem is that there is a system in the bottom right that will not disappear <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">More then that, I get access errors when I try to use that map in a game or edit that system in the map editor. Don't know what the problem is, but I think that map is a loss. Got currupted or something.

[tesco samoa]

1. clust 5
2. sclust 1


I think that clust 5 would be really good if some additonal blank systems were added around the map.

Clust 5 will make for a over kill game.

In the tradition of RTH. And it is still not as many planets as the first game. At least with both maps all players will have equal chance of getting their butts kicked.

[primitive]

All of these maps are OK with me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Electrum]

Maps look okie dokie

[tesco samoa]

fqm clust 3 (http://www.tescosamoa.com/Shipsets/zips/pbw/fqmclust3.zip)

this is an example of what the first game was like.

Problem is that there is a system in the bottom right that will not disappear

[Cirvol]

I'm cool with any of the maps, lets just start http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

i've uploaded my empire and now we are all ready...

lets get going?

[Karibu]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:

I think we will stick you and karibu inside a empty system with 1 planet each with a ban on SM for you...The rest of us would like a chance to win you know... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmm... yes. I think that is reasonable http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif However, what are you gonna do if we ally at the beginning? Wouldn't that give us an edge http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[tesco samoa]

he forgot to mention that you both will be placed in a space pod with 10 days of breathable air and 4 packs of smokes to keep you company http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Electrum]

So, with a player checking out, whats the plan? Continue or restart?

[Spoo]

I think we should restart. No point in inviting the AI this early.

Also, shouldn't we make sure that the number of clusters equals the new number of players? Otherwise, whoever finds the empty cluster first has a big advantage.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by primitive:
All of these maps are OK with me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think we will stick you and karibu inside a empty system with 1 planet each with a ban on SM for you...The rest of us would like a chance to win you know... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PBW seems to be down for the moment so I will get the game set up as soon as that is up again and also when the Last (2?) empires are uploaded. If every one agrees that both maps are acceptable then I will just randomly pick on and let everyone know which one it is.

[tesco samoa]

i will delete a cluster and have it set to 9 players... I also added the player to my list of Banned players who are not invited to join games i host. Any other game admins want the name send me an email.

[Renegade 13]

Just curious, but why'd you ban him from other games you host?

[tesco samoa]

Players should not sign up for a game and then as soon as it starts just drop it.

The other players do not need that. It can ruin a game even before it gets going.

So I like to avoid those situations. This is one way of making that happen.

[Karibu]

I assume that we don't have to join in any new game because you make a new map? Or do we have to make something...?

[tesco samoa]

i think the easy way would be to mark the empire dead and then the game admin sends out the new turn with just 9 empires in a new game... that way we do not have to quit or join a new game.

The bottom left cluster was cleaned out and made empty... just so you know

and start positions were added for the remaining clusters...

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
i think the easy way would be to mark the empire dead and then the game admin sends out the new turn with just 9 empires in a new game... that way we do not have to quit or join a new game.

The bottom left cluster was cleaned out and made empty... just so you know

and start positions were added for the remaining clusters... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok, thanks for doing that Tesco...I removed some of the empty systems, just far too many I think. I will send it to everyone so that we are all on even terms as far as the map goes. I will set up the game real quick and we can get started again. Hopefully this time without any problems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Electrum]

so whats the plan?
Are we continuing w/ what we have or should I wait for a new gamefile?

[Cirvol]

well, i did get the new turn and send in my first turn already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

however, in light of the loss of a 10th player (and cuz of my 120% research stupidity)
i'd like to suggest getting a 10th? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

(perhaps i can re-spend my research points too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

i think geo was talking about perhaps joining this one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Cirvol:

however, in light of the loss of a 10th player (and cuz of my 120% research stupidity)
i'd like to suggest getting a 10th? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

(perhaps i can re-spend my research points too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I guess since it is the first turn we could but I personally am against it. But as usual, I will go with the majority...Whatever will make my players happy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
What does everyone else think?

[ March 04, 2004, 14:12: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[tesco samoa]

does not bother me. 9 players or 10.... But if we restart this has to be the Last one...

And I do not wish to wait for a 10th player... If we have one on the restart that is cool if not then 9 it is.

the 10 player Version of the map will need the starting positions added.

[primitive]

I have no roblems either way, but of course it is Rags who have to do all the work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Ragnarok]

I would be more willing to restart if the players who have uploaded could keep their turns. But that would not be possible since when I make the game again the start positions for each player will change.
I sent a news item to everyone to vote on. I will go with majority, whatever it may be by the time I get off work today.

I apologize to all for all of this.

[ March 04, 2004, 15:11: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[Cirvol]

again, i too am cool either way =D

i dont really need the extra points from research... and, if i win - then i got much more braggin rights eh?

lets just continue the current game - unless geo pipes up and does want to join as #10 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Spoo]

I'd accept a restart, since it is the first turn.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Spoo:
I'd accept a restart, since it is the first turn. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">We are going to just continue on since Cirvol said he is willing to continue. Let the games begin! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Spoo]

That's fine with me too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Electrum]

I just downloaded next turn. AI messed up my turn. did anyone else experience this? Any chance of re-running the turn?

[Spoo]

My turn ran fine.

[Karibu]

Mine run also fine. Seems that there was some mistakes with 2 players when they created empires and at least one player didin't succeed to make his turn, so perhaps it would be most simple thing to start over? There is one executed turn back, so it is not too late to do it and everybody would be happy. Well, it is totally same for me. I am happy whatever is decision.

[tesco samoa]

I do not mind either... That way the two empires get fixed

[Ragnarok]

Ok, I guess we will restart. I will post a news item stating this for the 2 players to fix their empires and send to me.

I should've known small problems like this would've creeped in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Electrum]

Any word on the restart?

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Electrum:
Any word on the restart? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Finally got the .emp files to work for me. They were corrupted and giving me fits. I had to download them like 3 times each to work. But we will be starting in about 20 minutes...

[Cirvol]

ok, so you dont need me to redo my empire right?

i thought it was ok - its weird that you had so much of a problem getting it downloaded 'clean'

in any case - we're good to go now i hope?

let the games begin? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Electrum]

Just did the 2nd new turn & everything is smooth. Ragnarok you receive an official Electrum At-ta-Boy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Not that it's worth anything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Electrum:
Just did the 2nd new turn & everything is smooth. Ragnarok you receive an official Electrum At-ta-Boy! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Not that it's worth anything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wow, I guess I am honored. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
But I'm glad everything is finally running smooth. IT is always a trick trying to get the first turn on a game to run without any glitches. At least for me anyways. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Spoo]

Ragnarok, could you post (or email) a link to the new map? Thanks.

[Karibu]

By the way, I haven't seen the new map (except the systems I started in). I am unaware if any other RTH player has seen it, so would it not give Spoo advantage over other races? Also because ancient trait is Banned in our game. If I am mistaken, I apologise.

[primitive]

Since all systems are more or less alike and most of the the warppoints will be moved in a few turns, there is really not much use in seeing the map at all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Karibu]

Then why was ancient Banned?

[tesco samoa]

it would also take away from the fun of opening a warp point to an emtpy transit system... instead of someones home system. Only the game admin knows the final lay out of these... If he studied the map very well... There is an old copy of the map back a few pages in this thread... But it will ruin your game...

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
If he studied the map very well... There is an old copy of the map back a few pages in this thread... But it will ruin your game... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You're right, the admin (me) could easily learn the layout of the map if I study it and everything. But I assure you, I will not do such a thing to compremise the integrity of this game. BUt as Tesco said, there is an older Version of the map early in this thread. Only things change is the bottom left cluster is not there and some empty systems have been removed.

[primitive]

Originally posted by Karibu:
Then why was ancient Banned? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ancient can see the new warppoints, ringworlds and converted atmospheres gaining valuable intel on the state of the game.

Also the Ancient player would be able to do the open/warp/attack/close move in one turn.

[Karibu]

Originally posted by primitive:
Ancient can see the new warppoints, ringworlds and converted atmospheres gaining valuable intel on the state of the game.

Also the Ancient player would be able to do the open/warp/attack/close move in one turn. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Okay, I didin't know that ancient race has knowledge of changed waarp points, etc. changing information after game starts.

btw. You don't have to be ancient to open/warp/attack in the same turn. I have done it and all you need is to know the locations of planets in system you are attacking. This knowledge you usually get before you attack. Except in this game because ancient was Banned but on the other hand, the map is reachable for everyone.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Spoo:
Ragnarok, could you post (or email) a link to the new map? Thanks. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, I will do that this evening when I get home. I thought I had a copy of the map at work but I do not.

[tesco samoa]

game update. I have built stuff... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
game update. I have built stuff... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif That was a very detailed game update. Please, keep it coming.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by tesco samoa:
game update. I have built stuff... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif That was a very detailed game update. Please, keep it coming. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">game update? for all i know, he could be talking about a popsicle-stick house. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

i mean, some people could call that a game.

[ March 10, 2004, 20:58: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Karibu]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
game update. I have built stuff... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">GAAAAAA!!!! I surrender, I SURRENDER!! Please... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Karibu:
GAAAAAA!!!! I surrender, I SURRENDER!! Please... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ROFL!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

That was a good one Karibu.

[tesco samoa]

Well actually i built the following items.

20000 Base ships with the SCIFI Canon (PUKE)

GO-Back Facility... I started the game at 2300.0 I did not want to alarm anyone so I just built up in my core 10 systems.... Nothing to fancy... Fully developed planets with nice beach front property. And 30 ship yard bases above each one... So I have close to 5000 ship yards in place give or take a few thousand.

You may notice that 2401.3 turn is around 10 megs... This is when the go-back facility kicks in. Do not be alarmed. If you are... just send me a message with a location of a meeting place on your homeworlds were we can dicuss this openly.


Here is its stats SCIFI Canon

Name := Sci-Fi Canon
Description := Uses accepted principals of science fiction to systematicly dismantle non-canon elements of SEIV and eleminate them from the game.
Pic Num := 220
Tonnage Space Taken := 300
Tonnage Structure := 3000
Cost Minerals := 5000
Cost Organics := 5000
Cost Radioactives := 5000
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 5
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 6666
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Applied Science Fiction Lore
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Number of Abilities := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat
Weapon Damage At Rng := 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000 10000
Weapon Damage Type := Skips Shields And Armor
Weapon Reload Rate := 1
Weapon Display Type := Beam
Weapon Display := 14
Weapon Modifier := 200
Weapon Sound := tractor.wav
Weapon Family := 666

[tesco samoa]

Sugar I forgot.

the Star Trek Plot Device facility was built as well.

It will kick in near the end of every turn everyone else does ( say 80% in to the turn )... What happens is that if you do something that may cause me grief or could take a few turns ... well it is removed from the game. Each turn is turn by turn... Just remember that if you feel your trapped in a time loop.... don't do anything each turn.

[Cirvol]

damn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif why did you switch to 36 hour turns already???

i thought they were 48 hours, now i am screwed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

i really really really need to do this turn again if its at all possible

i thought i had until midnight tonight http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[Ragnarok]

My apologies man. I thought I filled out a news thing to send out to everyone about 36 hours. I must have forgot to submit it. I am really sorry about that. If you think the results will be bad enough we can roll back the turn. But seeing that this game will be a long one I think you will have time to rectify anything that happened. Let me know.

Again, I am really sorry about that.
But for all others we are on 36 hours!
I will go post a news item...

[Cirvol]

im emailing my turn to you now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

thx man


i can't afford a missed turn this early, its just too destructive

[Ragnarok]

You shouldn't have to email me your turn. I will repost the turn on PBW and you will just have to upload the .plr file as normal. Everyone else will also just have to re-upload the .plr file. Except for those that played this new turn already, they may have to replay the turn.

[Cirvol]

ok, as long as it doesnt screw anyone up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

im worried some one might upload the wrong one


(in case they dont follow this thread)

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Cirvol:
ok, as long as it doesnt screw anyone up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

im worried some one might upload the wrong one


(in case they dont follow this thread) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's always a possibility. I emailed Geo just now to ask about the issue so I will await a responce from him before I post the old turn.

Edit: Ok, got a responce. I just uploaded the old turn. Lets hope this goes smoothly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Edit 2: I would, just to be safe, go ahead nad open this turn to make sure it is the correct one, Cirvol.

[ March 12, 2004, 20:10: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

[tesco samoa]

i am fine with that

[Cirvol]

yeah, good point about 'no turtling'

the way i read that = you must be able to fly to any system

thats it

IE, if you make a guantlet of warp points and a single 'string' path to get to your deepest systems, so be it


ALSO, a side note here - neutral race demeanor SUX HARD - its really BROKEN imo...

wtf is up with -50? ... don't you think thats a bit extreme? ... i thought all this stuff was fixed ...

now, assuming im wrong and aaron thinks this 'balanced' - can someone explain it to me?

does a base -50 modifier really balance out vs not being upset when you loose a planet?

(is that how it works now?)

[tesco samoa]

neutral.... I suggest you take the time now to place 200 troops on every single planet.... cause your going to have problems...

[Karibu]

My point is, that building system grav. shield and concentrating warp points (unavoidable) is same thing as turteling. Now, house rule "no turteling" actually means that you will not create 10 warp points in ANY system and you will not build ANY system grav. shield.

So, will we ban using grav. shield or will game master tell us restrict rules what is turteling and what is not?

I know that this question should have been proposed earlier, but it is not too late yet.

[Electrum]

I understood the restriction as at least one system in your cluster must be accessable to creating warp points, not a complete ban on the techs or techniques.

[primitive]

Karibu:
I think the rule says total turtelling is forbidden. Closing some systems with system shields or 10 warppoints is not a problem.

Cirvol:
Minus is Good. -50 as base is excellent (5 % less angry people each turn).

It's the + 20 pr new colony which is the bad ;-)

Neutral or bloodthirsty is actually less bad in a full tech game than in a regular game as troops and UPCs are available from the start. Build lots of troops and watch your colonizing and you should do OK. When the fighting starts you will have an advantage over the "Peacefull" races.

[Karibu]

I am little confused now. It seems that computer played my Last turn, even when I did submit it. Well, it doesn't matter. However, today I got new turn, made it and submitted it. I hope it now goes well.

Furthermore, I have few questions about turteling. House rules say, that I have to leave at least 1 system open. I don't see how it is any different than Last game. Then I had all my systems turteled, except 2 systems, where I had one warp point both of them which lead out of my area. Those 2 systems however had 10 warp points, so nobody could open warp point there and only way into my inner systems was to go through those 2 ports.

Is it okay, that I leave 1 system totally open (no grav shields or 10 warp points), and there leads 1 warp point into my inner systems?

I want to discuss this clear now, before there comes any problems and disagreements.

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by primitive:
Karibu:
I think the rule says total turtelling is forbidden. Closing some systems with system shields or 10 warppoints is not a problem.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok, sorry for not responding sooner guys. Haven't been on the forums all weekend.

But turtelling is exactly as primitive states it to be. If you close off EVERY system you have to where no warp points can be opened, either by 10 warp points or the system grav. shield, then that is turtelling and is forbidden. But if you use the 10 warp points and system shield to close off all BUT 1 system, that is fine.

Is this clear enough to everyone involved or should we explain a little bit more?

[Cirvol]

all but one system makes no sense rag...

if i turtle all my systems except 1, and that one is taken over - then what?

I'm immune to any other attack at that point - i think you should say that there must be a path available to every one of your systems

or am i missing something?

[primitive]

You missunderstand Cirvol.
All your systems need to have connection via warppoints to an open system (or to a system connected to a system connected.....to the open system). If you have system shields (or using the 10 warppoint rule) this will mean that everybody who wants to attack you beyond the open system has to attack through a warpoint giving you as the defender all the advantages.

Beware though; when the fleets get really huge, the advantage to the defender become less http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Cirvol]

primitive, i didnt missunderstand http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif look at my earlier post...

Originally posted by Cirvol:
yeah, good point about 'no turtling'

the way i read that = you must be able to fly to any system

thats it

IE, if you make a guantlet of warp points and a single 'string' path to get to your deepest systems, so be it
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">all the hub-bub about 10 warp points and grav shields has nothing to do with my simple post - which most accurately describes the no turtle rule

[primitive]

Yeah, that post sums it up pretty well.

If your strategy for RTH2 is to confuse me, then you are doing great so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

I think just for clearifications sake I will add this.

I don't think it was defined as well as it could have been in this regard. Cirvol mentions having a way to get from system to system no matter what. This is true, and it is required.

I think it is understood, but as I said, just to make things clearer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
You cannot close off a single system and leave the rest open, this would be considered turtelling. If I, or someone else, were to come into a players cluster we must be able to get to all of his warp points by means of a warp point system.

[Cirvol]

bump http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

i just got my first stellar manip ship - what about the rest of you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

how many do you all generally build in rth?
fill me in on the 'common wisdom' gained in rth 1?

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Cirvol:

fill me in on the 'common wisdom' gained in rth 1? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why would we do that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

In RTH1 I had I think 4 warp open/closers. Then I had whole slu (10 or so, IIRC) planet creators. This was since we used FQM there were at least 15 asteroid fields in each system! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[Spoo]

Will the game break if I try to convert one of the "invisible" asteroid fields into a planet?

[primitive]

Invisible asteroide fields, thats Spooky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Karibu]

Originally posted by Spoo:
Will the game break if I try to convert one of the "invisible" asteroid fields into a planet? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have those too. When you put option "Show planet names" on, you see the names of the planets and asteroid fields also. I have few asteroid fields, which are not seen in the system window (ie. there is no picture for them) but you can locate them clikcing your mouse over the name of the asteroid field, where the picture is supposed to be (same as you click the picture of planet).

[Ragnarok]

Ahh, now I see them. I didn't think about using that option, I was looking in the planets screen and selecting asteroids but they didn't show up. I guess one way to find out if they crash the game is to do it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[tesco samoa]

game update.

built more stuff.... Soon I will run out of closet space....

Better expand and take over the neighbours closets....

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Spoo:
Will the game break if I try to convert one of the "invisible" asteroid fields into a planet? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">"invisible" asteroid fields?! What is this you speak of? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[Cirvol]

tesco, you are scaring us http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

how many other people are about to 'open' up a warp point can of whoop ***?

[tesco samoa]

haha i was just posting as a follow up to the previous post...

[Ragnarok]

I have more warships running around then I know what to do with. Maybe I should invite someone over for a nice cup of tea.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[primitive]

Well, the first fleet of Dreads should be fully trained in just a few turns (quite a PITA with no moons).

Now, where to send them ?
Heads for East, Tails for West. ---Flip--- http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Cirvol]

now you're all scaring me... lol

i'm still trying to build - and colonize all my planets etc...

oh well, should be fun

[Renegade 13]

Originally posted by Cirvol:
now you're all scaring me... lol

i'm still trying to build - and colonize all my planets etc...

oh well, should be fun <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Lol, well at least I'm not the only one!

Don't worry, they're just trying to get you paranoid. I dont' think anyone will go out of their cluster for a bit, until they have all their own planets colonized. And if you come to my cluster, prepare to die very very quickly! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[primitive]

Originally posted by Renegade 13:
........ Don't worry, they're just trying to get you paranoid. ............<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe, but you don't know that for sure, do you ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

The rush can be quite effective in a full tech game if the other guy has consentrated only on infrastructure (Slynky thought me that the hard way). Then again, if you are unlucky and the other guy has a fleet it is the distinct possibility that even the winning empire will end up so damaged it will be easy meat later.

All these decissions is giving me a headache. Maybe I just should flip the coin again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Spoo]

mmm... paranoia.

I am pretty curious as to what you've all been building. Too bad the only way to find out is to go and smash it with dreadnoughts... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Renegade 13]

Originally posted by Spoo:
mmm... paranoia.

I am pretty curious as to what you've all been building. Too bad the only way to find out is to go and smash it with dreadnoughts... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hehe come on over! The star destroyers are ready! Not to mention the minefields, weapons platforms, colonies full of monolith facilities, and a few other "special" surprises awaiting those of you brazen enough to come join my little party!!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by Renegade 13:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Spoo:
mmm... paranoia.

I am pretty curious as to what you've all been building. Too bad the only way to find out is to go and smash it with dreadnoughts... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hehe come on over! The star destroyers are ready! Not to mention the minefields, weapons platforms, colonies full of monolith facilities, and a few other "special" surprises awaiting those of you brazen enough to come join my little party!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Mousian empire has been monitering Super-space* communications and doubts this statement. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

* The forum, of course!

[Renegade 13]

Well, maybe there was a LITTLE bit of exaggeration in there. But still, you will meet a formidable force!!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

oh, come on. What kind of reply is that? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Try 'We will crush your puny force under our savage heel, destroy your worlds like tinderboxes and STEAL YOUR COMPUTERS! MWUHAHAHA!! AND THE ONE'S WE DON'T STEAL, WE SHALL SPAM!! HEAHAHAHA!!'

See, as an emporor, it's your job to always laugh maniacally from a position of strength. Actual force estimates play no part. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ March 26, 2004, 06:28: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Ragnarok]

update: 2 of 5 under construction sphereworlds will be reaching it's fullest capacity of population and monoliths next turn. That should be enough to support my mothballed fleet of 1000 baseships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Electrum]

Originally posted by Ragnarok:
update: 2 of 5 under construction sphereworlds will be reaching it's fullest capacity of population and monoliths next turn. That should be enough to support my mothballed fleet of 1000 baseships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wow!
That's all?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
I didn't know I was THAT far ahead! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Originally posted by Electrum:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Ragnarok:
update: 2 of 5 under construction sphereworlds will be reaching it's fullest capacity of population and monoliths next turn. That should be enough to support my mothballed fleet of 1000 baseships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wow!
That's all?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif
I didn't know I was THAT far ahead! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">*Claps*

[ March 26, 2004, 23:31: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Renegade 13]

It really doesn't matter how much you have; I will always have more. How do I know this? My Evil-Prophets-of-Doom-for-the-Enemy told me.

[ March 27, 2004, 00:21: Message edited by: Renegade 13 ]

[tesco samoa]

and don't forget about the double secret alliance we have renegade

[Renegade 13]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
and don't forget about the double secret alliance we have renegade <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Whatever are you talking about? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

(You weren't supposed to tell anyone!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif )

[Karibu]

mmm... yes, I have seen this happening before. People tend to babble when they are scared and about to soil their pants. It won't help you, though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[Cirvol]

and here i thought i was the only one building a sphereworld http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Cirvol]

bump

cuz i'd like to know when people start fighting / opening warp point war luv http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

anyone in active combat yet?

if not, please tell us when it happens... i need a front row seat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Cirvol:
anyone in active combat yet?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That won't happen for many turns I'm sure. Most people like to build up their empire before doing something like that in this type of game. But it's very possible someone will change things around and go for an early kill.

[Cirvol]

in RTH 1, when did the hostilities begin??

any details any of u can give about that game?

[tesco samoa]

60 turns in Last time i believe

longer the better... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

We could make it a house rule... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


SEIV Sandbox is fun

[Cirvol]

why do i get the feeling that many of you are not going to wait that long?

lol, if we wait that long, we'll all have sphere worlds and massive amounts of ships... i get the feeling that letting people get that far advanced is going to make it next to impossible to actually 'win'.

in any case - there are no house rules about when to fight - so it should be interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ March 31, 2004, 18:38: Message edited by: Cirvol ]

[tesco samoa]

60 turns is not to long... Think about it.

Your cluster will be complete but you will still be building on most of your planets as the atmosphere modifications do take a full year. Then building those additional 25 slots will take time...

So turn 60 is very early in this game.

Turn 80 to 100 on the other hand is when stuff starts to heat up.... Make sure you get your bases going so you can build your ships on them.

While your planets are doing their thing... So as soon as a 6 pack planet is cleared build a base

[tesco samoa]

guess it is a snowball effect where the slope goes along at 1 % for about 80 turns... then it increases to 175% on turn 81... and does not stop

unless of course you get attacked... and clobbered.

[Ragnarok]

Tesco had very good tips.

And I would also recommend building a SY on EVERY planet. Do not leave a single one. This hsould be common knowledge for us all in this game but just to not leave a stone unturned.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
You will have more resources then you know what to do with by midgame so as many SYs as possible is a good thing.

[Cirvol]

man im struggling to keep my resources upto my build rate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

i guess thats a good sign eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

it should start to kick in soon tho - i am only now finishing my system robotoid factory lvl 3's etc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[tesco samoa]

You should be building some storage facilities on some of your 30 pack planets right now.

As the resource converter has a max limit of your storage limit for each resource for conVersion.

Best to get your storage up right away from the get go.

If you have not done this

next turn build a resource converter.
And build your storage units.

IF you need to put everything on hold to get the converter out DO IT. And in a few turns you will no longer have a problem with resources... From now on in due to your build ques...

And convert resources every turn to fill those oranic and rad storage to their max.

Waste no resources.

Also have that first base space yard build more base space yards... IF you cannot use them now. Moth ball them for later. And have these puppies build 10 on each planet.

Moth ball those you cannot use right away. and unmothball them as soon as you have additional resources to use them.

Also make your build ques common.

So you use the fill que option. Saves time.

And as soon as a base yard is complete set up its way point to your training area. So your ships will automatically move there. Then add your ship class to the build que and hit repeat.

The only time i do not do this is for the troop planets where I will move the ship manually after it has picked up its troops

Also

The 6 pack planet

Build a ship yard. then atmosphere then what ever else ( such as 4 value improvements ) Save this que as 6 pack starter or what ever
And set up your 30 pack planets and save the ques..

This way you do not forget anything.

And when those 6 packs turn into 30 packs

Create new common build ques to use with the 25 facilities on them. So when another planet comes in on the atmosphere converted... you just scrap the atmosphere and then click on the fill que and select it from the list. And away you go.

Plan everything for 50 turns down the road.

You know you need large fleets. You know you need to replace large fleets quickly. You know you do not want to micro manage this when it is going full tilt. So plan for this

You need resources. You need storage. You need base space yards.

You need sphere worlds.

This is my advice. Sand Box SEIV. It is actually quite enjoyable before Primative takes out 1500 base ships in 3 turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[primitive]

Turn 60 should be about right time for the serious fighting to start. That doesn't mean someone won't try a raid or two earlier, but they would leave themselves very vulnerable to counterattacks if they go before the defences are ready.

As to shipyards: Build bases, lot of bases. The amount of resources this game will produce is incredible. The planetary SY's can only utilize a fraction of what all these planets can produce. In RTH-1 I had about 2000 BSYs, and I am sure a fully developed RTH-2 home cluster can support at least 1000 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

BTW: Mineral Scanners are better than Robotoid factories. With the new patch you get +45 % http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Cirvol]

i do mineral scanners on the planet that has high mineral % and only mineral miners...

systems with a mix get the robotiod factory lvl 3 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Cirvol]

ah, i luv this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

i got a few warp mod ships now, and have started a handful of sphereworlds - i still have a few backwater planets which need to be colonized, but they are mostly low resource % so kinda useless except for construction yards

my miner scanners have kicked in and now i think i'll be good to go for resources for a while

anyone else care to update us with their sandbox status???

[Karibu]

My weavers have made nice, colorful carpets on my floor in the palace. Also couple of turns ago they produced a very large table in my imperial feasting room. I have ordered 3 turns celebration and general vacation so that all my subject could enjoy their life and prosperity my vice governance brings to my people.

I am planning to build huge monument of myself on every planet. Their building time varies from one year to three, depending on what side of character it impersonates. Hail to the Karibu the Wise!!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Attack him while he's distracted? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

* Karibu.

[ April 02, 2004, 19:22: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

[Cirvol]

lol, no sh*t eh?

why so evasive on your empire building info?
its not like you're doing some big secret project;)

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Cirvol:
lol, no sh*t eh?

why so evasive on your empire building info?
its not like you're doing some big secret project;) <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">My sandbox is getting full of sandburrs. They are poking me all over the place and are about me to drive my fleets of baseships to flee to another sandbox to go and play. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Spoo]

My sandbox is getting full of sandburrs. They are poking me all over the place and are about me to drive my fleets of baseships to flee to another sandbox to go and play. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Can I have your sandbox, since you're leaving anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Cirvol]

well, we're just about at turn 20 in the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

its quite amazing how quickly things expand when you start with a good start like that

anyone doing anything worth reporting yet?

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Cirvol:


anyone doing anything worth reporting yet? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not really. But then again I may not want you to know what I am doing... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Oh, and Spoo, my sandbox is off limits! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Cirvol]

well, someone has jumped the gun,

someone just opened a warp point into one of my systems... nothing has come thru of course, but i expect it to happen next turn

whoever you are, i would strongly suggest you close that warp point this turn

there will be hell to pay if you enter

*turns to the side, directing the naval general*
'please open multiple warp points to that system and send baseship fleets alpha, beta, and delta to that system, thank-you'

now, is there any question about who owns that sandbox?

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Cirvol:
well, someone has jumped the gun,

someone just opened a warp point into one of my systems... nothing has come thru of course, but i expect it to happen next turn
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wow, that is an early start!

[Cirvol]

yeah, its made me really angry - i've had to switch over the whole system to building military/defence/offence to ensure victory.

my fleets will be there next turn - but i dont know how large this guy is

i hope he's ready for a fight

[primitive]

You guys worry to much !

I have the Horde sniffing out the areas close to the lair, so it might just be little me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

While ships are coming off the assemblyline in decent numbers now, its way to early for the real action to start......
Or ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Karibu]

Originally posted by Cirvol:
someone just opened a warp point into one of my systems... <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If they are asking their way to look at my great statues, please tell them they are not yet ready. I will properly inform everyone when they are built and invite all to the opening parties. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Cirvol]

lol, great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

i'll direct primitive to your cluster, just give me the location? 8)

so it looks like i'm up against primitive to start... just great... well, its going to be interesting

[Renegade 13]

Well i haven't looked at my turn yet, but we are a rather xenophobic race as of yet, and although I am doing my best to change my peoples opinions of other races, it will still be a few months before we will be ready to venture forth, and create a situation in which my people will be completely satisfied.

Oh, did I forget to mention that we can only be completely satisfied when we are alone? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

But seriously, I'm not ready yet!!