AI Deathmach 3

[Master Belisarius]

Space Vikings vs Verduran.
The Verduran won at the turn 240.
It was a somewhat easy game for them... and then, got the second place for the next round.

[Alneyan]

Hmm, I like your suggestion about these AIs. I need some training in handling pressure early on in the game. As you may recall, Gecko had me very worried in our 2vs2 game, but I fared much better afterwards. The same happened in our own KOTH game: you let me build up, and faced the wrath of the Economist in me. Of course, I still lost most battles in our game, but won the major ones (when defending my wormholes). That seems to be one of my annoying habits...

So, you should hope for Asmala to defeat Rex before time is up then, and you will become King once he leaves. Doesn't that sound nice? It is fairly unlikely though, so sharpen your sword, ready your spells, and crush Rex. He is a mighty player early on, or so I am told. Even Primitive had trouble with him, and Primitive... well, he isn't exactly the weakest of all of us. Cross your fingers, and hope Asmala will fare better!

The comment about AIs was merely propaganda to disarm any... caution humans might have towards us. They should believe we are weaklings, unable to think for ourselves. I can safely tell you my scheme, for I will hold power once you are crowned. Power! And do not even think of crossing me, who stands by your side, the schemer whispering in your ear. Erh... I should have switched my Machiavelli impersonation off I guess.

[Master Belisarius]

Alneyan said:
Hmm, I like your suggestion about these AIs. I need some training in handling pressure early on in the game.



Yep. It can be challenging, even for experienced players,(but of course that with these game settings, the AI has an incredible advantage!).


Alneyan said:
The same happened in our own KOTH game: you let me build up, and faced the wrath of the Economist in me. Of course, I still lost most battles in our game, but won the major ones (when defending my wormholes). That seems to be one of my annoying habits...



It was a good game. And think you played better than me, and for this reason, you won.


Alneyan said:
So, you should hope for Asmala to defeat Rex before time is up then, and you will become King once he leaves. Doesn't that sound nice? It is fairly unlikely though, so sharpen your sword, ready your spells, and crush Rex. He is a mighty player early on, or so I am told. Even Primitive had trouble with him, and Primitive... well, he isn't exactly the weakest of all of us. Cross your fingers, and hope Asmala will fare better!



Maybe you can't believe me, but would prefer to play (and probably lose) with Asmala. At the end, he's a true legend in SE4... Is the guy that everybody wants to defeat! hehehe Just like I was in the SE3 times!


Alneyan said:
The comment about AIs was merely propaganda to disarm any... caution humans might have towards us. They should believe we are weaklings, unable to think for ourselves. I can safely tell you my scheme, for I will hold power once you are crowned. Power! And do not even think of crossing me, who stands by your side, the schemer whispering in your ear. Erh... I should have switched my Machiavelli impersonation off I guess.


Oh well... maybe it's a professional deformation... but I think the current AIs aren't smartest than a virus!
Of course I could be wrong!

[Master Belisarius]

Earth Alliance vs CueCappa.

The Earth Alliance won by points at the turn 500. They controled more systems, but specially, they had a better resource management.

Then, the EA finished second in the group, and got the other place to be in the next round.

[Alneyan]

Well, I beat you on economics in this game, and carefully lost most battles, but the intelligence weapon is powerful when combined with Stellar Manipulation for optimal targetting. I should be glad SEIV is a forgiving game for the poor general in me.

I would much rather defeat Primitive myself (or perhaps Roanon), and of course the usual suspects (anybody having defeated me in the past). I must say I am not so impressed with Asmala; of course, I only played two games with him on board, so. One of these is Pairs, wherein Primitive is taking on the whole galaxy on his own, and I merely wield his fan. The other was a modded game where I actually had the upper hand; I glassed *one* of his planets, losing fifty ships in the process, but he glassed none of mine. Doesn't that make me the winner? Ah, perhaps not.

Hmm, it seems like I have go on a wild tangent again. When do you plan to do the Human Deathmatch Belisarius? Throwing Asmala, Primitive, Rex, Stone Mill, the Lithuanian team and a few more players in the same arena should be fun. For us of course, who will be watching the bloodbath.

[Master Belisarius]

Pyrochette vs Khrel.

The Pyrochette won at the turn 450 and got the second place in the group.
It was another marathon game... more than 24 hours!

[Master Belisarius]

Here the standings after the round 3:

Group C1
United Flora 4
Narn Regime 2
Toron 0

Group C2
Tessellate 4
Verduran 3
Space Vikings 1

Group C3
Fazrah 4
Earth Alliance 2
CueCappa 0

Group C4
Aquilaeian 4
Pyrochette 2
Khrel 0

The first 2 Ai's of each group, are in the next round.
Then, here the Groups for the fourth round:

GROUP D1
United Flora
Verduran
Fazrah
Pyrochette

GROUP D2
Tessellate
Narn Regime
Aquilaeian
Earth Alliance

I'll play 6 games for each AI, and the first 3 AI's of each group, will be in the next round.

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Verduran
The United Flora won by points, at the turn 500.
It was a somewhat balanced game, and the Verudran offered a good challenge and the UF was unable to kill them.

By the way, the Verduran use many of the UF scripts, and basically are an United Flora Version, but without Deeply Religious.

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs Narn Regime.
The Tessellate won without problems, at the turn 230.

[Timstone]

The battle between the Narns and the EA will be an interesting one. I'm looking forward to it.

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
The battle between the Narns and the EA will be an interesting one. I'm looking forward to it.


They already fought...it was during the Second Round, group B5.
In both games the AIs signed a Military Alliance and kept it until the turn 500... and the Narn won both games by points.

Must say it was... boring!

[Master Belisarius]

Fazrah vs Pyrochette.
The Pyrochette defeated the Fazrah at the turn 400.

[Captain Kwok]

One suggestion I'd offer for a future AI deathmatch is that you prevent the AIs from forming treaties.

[Timstone]

About the Narns EA game:
Damn! Already forgot about it, because the high boredom factor...

[Master Belisarius]

Captain Kwok said:
One suggestion I'd offer for a future AI deathmatch is that you prevent the AIs from forming treaties.


Sound like a good suggestion. But will be forced to modiffy the Politics.txt and change the "Highest Allowed Treaty".

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
About the Narns EA game:
Damn! Already forgot about it, because the high boredom factor...


hehehe, no problem! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
And.... think it will be boring again! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Aquilaeian vs Earth Alliance.

The Aquilaeian defeated the Earth Alliance at the turn 390.

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Fazrah.
The United Flora defeated the Fazrah at the turn 400.

[Master Belisarius]

For those people that want to know the results in the others AI Deathmatches, I'm posing here the Excel's files.
Here the results in the first AI Deathmatch.

[Master Belisarius]

Here the results for the second AI Deathmatch.

[Kamog]

Thank you, Master Belisarius, for doing all this work on testing the A.I.'s.
Now I know which A.I.'s to include in my next game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Kamog said:
Thank you, Master Belisarius, for doing all this work on testing the A.I.'s.
Now I know which A.I.'s to include in my next game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'm glad do you think it's useful!
By the way, HAPPY NEW YEAR to everybody!

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs Aquilaeian.
As expected, the Tessellate had not big problems to defeat the Aquilaeian. They won at the turn 320.

Verduran vs Pyrochette.
The Verduran defeated the Pyrochette fairly fast, at the turn 240.

[Master Belisarius]

Narn Regime vs Earth Alliance.
Like the other games, both races signed a Military Alliance and the Narn won by points at the turn 500 (although this time, the EA was somewhat close in the numbers).

[Master Belisarius]

Pyrochette vs United Flora.
The United Flora won at the turn 280.

To me, is pretty obvious that the United Flora will be in the Finals... and the Tessellate probably will be the other.

[Master Belisarius]

Earth Alliance vs Tessellate.
The Tessellate won at the turn 210.

[Master Belisarius]

Verduran vs Fazrah.
The Verduran won at the turn 340.

[Master Belisarius]

Narn Regime vs Aquilaeian.
The Aquilaeian won at the turn 290.

[Master Belisarius]

Already have played the half of the games of this round.
Here the standings:

GROUP D1
United Flora 3
Verduran 2
Fazrah 0
Pyrochette 1

GROUP D2
Tessellate 3
Narn Regime 1
Aquilaeian 2
Earth Alliance 0

[Master Belisarius]

Verduran vs United Flora.
The United Flora defeated the Verdurans at the turn 320.

[Master Belisarius]

Narn Regime vs Tessellate.
The Tessellate won without problems, at the turn 220.

[Timstone]

We're comming near the end now. Only a few more rounds and the ultimate AI will be known.
Which races won the first two deathmatches?

[Fyron]

MB has the results of the first 2 death matches in his signature.

[Timstone]

Woops, must be the lack of tea... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Woops, must be the lack of tea... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif


Scotch on the rocks it's like the Iced Tea? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Pyrochette vs Fazrah.
The Pyrochette won by points at the turn 500.
It was another marathon game...

[Master Belisarius]

Earth Alliance vs Aquilaeian.
The Aquilaeian won without big problems, at the turn 370.

[Blade W]

It seems this will be the fall of the Fazrah Empire. BTW this is better result than the previous.

[Master Belisarius]

Blade W said:
It seems this will be the fall of the Fazrah Empire.



Yes... right now they only could win 1 game (I'm running the game against the UF and they're going to lose...).


Blade W said:
BTW this is better result than the previous.



Agree! In the previous edition they reached the place 9, and this time they will be in the place 7th. But also, this time they won their group in the rounds 2 and 3.

[Master Belisarius]

Fazrah vs United Flora.
The UF won at the turn 220.

Aquilaeian vs Tessellate.
The Tessellate won at the turn 260.

[Fyron]

Master Belisarius said:
Aquilaeian vs Tessellate.
The Tessellate won at the turn 260.

Sad to see your namesake fall. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Perhaps you need to strengthen them a bit?

[Master Belisarius]

Imperator Fyron said:

Master Belisarius said:
Aquilaeian vs Tessellate.
The Tessellate won at the turn 260.

Sad to see your namesake fall. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Perhaps you need to strengthen them a bit?


hehehe, don't think would be possible because the UF and the Tessellate are so far the best AIs... and specially the Tessellate has more advantage against the Aquilaeian thanks the Skip Armor weapons + the Talisman.

Anyway, think the Aquilaeian would need a touch because they're very weak in the Intelligence field.

[Master Belisarius]

Pyrochette vs Verdurans.
The Verdurans killed the Pyrochette at the turn 500.

I think the Verdurans will get the 3rd place, thanks his many and massive fleets with cheap (and weak) Organic ships.

Although this approach works very well fighting other AIs, I have doubts if it works with humans....
Somebody has played against the Verdurans?

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Pyrochette.
The United Flora won without problems, at the turn 270.

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs Earth Alliance.
The Tessellate defeated the EA, at the turn 270, and like the UF won their group without problems.

Fazrah vs Verduran.
The Verduran won by points at the turn 500.
This time, the Fazrah offered a very interesting challenge, using many Intel Projects. But at the end they controled less systems than the Verdurans and lost the game.

[Master Belisarius]

Aquilaeian vs Narn Regime.
The Aquilaeian won by points, at the turn 500 (the Narn only controled one system).

[Master Belisarius]

The Fourth Round has been finished... Here the standings:

Group D1
United Flora 6
Verduran 4
Pyrochette 2
Fazrah 0

Group D2
Tessellate 6
Aquilaeian 4
Narn Regime 2
Earth Alliance 0

Here the Groups for the Fifth Round:

Group E1
United Flora
Aquilaeian
Pyrochette

Group E2
Tessellate
Verduran
Narn Regime

Each AI will play 4 games and the first two of each group, will reach the Semi-Final.

I'm pretty sure the Pyrochette and Narn Regime will be unable to reach the next round... but of course that first I need to run the games! hehehehe

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Aquilaeian.
The United Flora won at the turn 450. The Aquilaeian offered a decent challenge, but the more numerous UF fleets did the difference.

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs Verduran
The Tessellate won without big problems, at the turn 260.
They had some problems in the early game (due the Colony bug), but when the DN and BA comes, the game was decided very fast to their side.

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Pyrochette.
The United Flora won at the turn 360.

Tessellate vs Narn Regime.
The Tessellate won at the turn 290.

[Hunpecked]

My thanks to Master Belisarius for running the AI Deathmatches. Based on the Round 1 & 2 reports I started a solitaire game (my third SEIVg in history) including my Terrans and the TDM-ModPack Aquilaeians, Fazrah, Narn, Tessellate, and United Flora. After seeing the recent quarterfinal results I would probably substitute the Verdurans or Pyrochette for the Fazrah, but there's always next game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

The Terrans encountered the Fazrah first, after 30-odd turns. I was surprised and pleased to see the Fazrah using mines on the common border soon after war began. Unfortunately they never used mines or sweepers in sufficient numbers, and finally surrendered. Although definitely improved over the standard AIs, the Fazrah were still slow to expand and research compared to the human player. They also neglected to launch stored satellites on several planets. On the bright side, they did seem pretty good at building facilities to match planet values, e.g. building mines mostly on mineral-rich worlds, and so on.

The Aquilaeians and Tessellate seem to have similar shortcomings; the Terrans had brief trade alliances with both before they declared war, and on the comparison chart they were each at about half the Terran level in Research, Resources, and Planets. The Aquilaeians seem to have developed some Counter-Intelligence capability; my second Ship Bomb project failed. The Tessellate, despite their lagging research, have fielded a Cruiser against the mostly LC Terran fleet. Nevertheless, as of Turn 79 the Terrans definitely have the upper hand. Unless the so-far-unseen Narn and/or UF have built a formidable empire, the Terrans seem to have a lock on this game. Perhaps next time I should try the team play option (5 AI vs human).

I look forward to the rest of AI Deathmatch 3.

[Master Belisarius]

Hunpecked said:
My thanks to Master Belisarius for running the AI Deathmatches. Based on the Round 1 & 2 reports I started a solitaire game (my third SEIVg in history) including my Terrans and the TDM-ModPack Aquilaeians, Fazrah, Narn, Tessellate, and United Flora. After seeing the recent quarterfinal results I would probably substitute the Verdurans or Pyrochette for the Fazrah, but there's always next game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

The Terrans encountered the Fazrah first, after 30-odd turns. I was surprised and pleased to see the Fazrah using mines on the common border soon after war began. Unfortunately they never used mines or sweepers in sufficient numbers, and finally surrendered. Although definitely improved over the standard AIs, the Fazrah were still slow to expand and research compared to the human player. They also neglected to launch stored satellites on several planets. On the bright side, they did seem pretty good at building facilities to match planet values, e.g. building mines mostly on mineral-rich worlds, and so on.

The Aquilaeians and Tessellate seem to have similar shortcomings; the Terrans had brief trade alliances with both before they declared war, and on the comparison chart they were each at about half the Terran level in Research, Resources, and Planets. The Aquilaeians seem to have developed some Counter-Intelligence capability; my second Ship Bomb project failed. The Tessellate, despite their lagging research, have fielded a Cruiser against the mostly LC Terran fleet. Nevertheless, as of Turn 79 the Terrans definitely have the upper hand. Unless the so-far-unseen Narn and/or UF have built a formidable empire, the Terrans seem to have a lock on this game. Perhaps next time I should try the team play option (5 AI vs human).

I look forward to the rest of AI Deathmatch 3.


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks for your report! Really enjoyed it and always is good to know how the AIs perform against real palyers.
Was you using High Bonus? You should play with at least low bonus.. but medium or high are more challenging.
Please tell me your game settings... and yes, the AI vs human it's a challenging option (specially in small galaxies), but maybe you are ready to play in PBW and meet human players!

[Hunpecked]

Master Belisarius writes:

>> Please tell me your game settings...

Large quadrant, Galactic Edge (?), 1 Average Planet (2000M pop) but not all players required to start with the same planet size. Low research start, default costs. 2000 point game, took "Propulsion Experts" Advanced Trait on the theory that Advanced Storage was too advantageous. I min-maxed only to the point of diminishing returns, e.g. Strength 80%, not 50%. Aggression and Defense default. Intelligence, Mining & Construction 120%, Maintenance 110%. Cunning, Farming, Refining, Political Savvy & Repair were all 80% as I recall. The rest were default or below, because somehow I raised enough points to take "Hardy Industrialists". Culture was Scientists.

It occurred to me later that starting with Medium Homeworlds may have been a mistake. I suspect the AIs are much less adept than a human at dealing with a lack of resources, hence the slow growth of the three AIs I've met so far.

>> You should play with at least low bonus

Well, I dislike AI "cheats", but if that's what it takes...

>> and yes, the AI vs human it's a challenging option

Good news.

>> but maybe you are ready to play in PBW and meet human players!

BWAHAHAHA! Good one, MB! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Seriously, so far I've been using Tactical Combat all the way. I know this gives the human a big advantage, but at this point I just can't stand for the game to run my precious ships, even under my general direction.

Maybe after I've learned more about Strategic Combat...

[Mephisto]

Hunpecked said:
Master Belisarius writes:

>> You should play with at least low bonus

Well, I dislike AI "cheats", but if that's what it takes...




The Terrans, EA and Narn for one are optimised for "no bonus"-games. They use the resources more sparingly which puts them at a slight disadvantage in games where there are AI boni since they don't use them to the full extend possible.

[Blade W]

Yes, it's a common way to stop AI-s even at high bonus: mines, mines, mines.

[Hunpecked]

At one point the Fazrah actually broke through a field with 20-odd mines, but lost their sweepers and a couple combat ships in the process; the survivors were annihilated in the ensuing battle. Going the other way I had to sweep 30+. Overall I thought the Fazrah handled mines pretty well for an AI. I'm currently swallowing frontier colonies of the Aquilaeians and Tessellate, and my sweeper-escorted fleets have so far encountered no mines. It would seem prudent for an AI to deploy a few minelayers to its borders before declaring war. In fact it might be prudent even in peace.

Next game I'll try mine warfare in a gang-up-on-the-human conflict. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Hunpecked said:
>> You should play with at least low bonus

Well, I dislike AI "cheats", but if that's what it takes...




Ok, this is the main reason because you had not a decent challenge...
All the AI races I have designed, are optimized to play with AT LEAST low bonuses (specially the Tessellate because it's a "combo" race).

Also, remember to select High Difficulty... because if not, the AI will not use all the ministers!

[Master Belisarius]

Hunpecked said:
I'm currently swallowing frontier colonies of the Aquilaeians and Tessellate, and my sweeper-escorted fleets have so far encountered no mines. It would seem prudent for an AI to deploy a few minelayers to its borders before declaring war. In fact it might be prudent even in peace.



They usually lay mines fairly well, even in peace. The problem would be that they're lack of resources...
Can you send me the savegame?

[Master Belisarius]

Aquilaeian vs Pyrochette.
The Aquilaeian won by points at the turn 500. It was a long and weird game: the Pyrochette conquered the Aquilaeian's systems in the left side, but lost his own systems at the right side.

Verduran vs Narn Regime.
The Narn Regime won by points at the turn 500.
In some way, I have not expected a Narn's victory, because although his ships are a lot better than the Verduran's ships, the Verdurans built many many ships and fleets (and the AI is not good defending when the opponent has many fleets moving into their systems).

[Master Belisarius]

Blade W said:
Yes, it's a common way to stop AI-s even at high bonus: mines, mines, mines.


True. But think it mainly works in the early game.
Because most of the strongest TDMs AI, include "offensive sweepers". In the late game, a pair of those offensive sweepers can manage 100 mines without big problems.

[Hunpecked]

Master Belisarius writes:

>>Can you send me the savegame?

Gladly. I'll try to remember this evening.

Computer players are set to High, so all ministers should be active. No bonus to AIs. I can see how that would handicap the them; I'm experiencing my SECOND minerals crunch of the game, despite taking a number of occupied systems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Bone]

Master Belisarius said:
Also, remember to select High Difficulty... because if not, the AI will not use all the ministers!



I did not know this!

[Master Belisarius]

Aquilaeian vs United Flora.
The UF won by points at the turn 500. It was a weird game, where the AIs doesn't wanted to attack...

[Master Belisarius]

Verduran vs Tessellate.
The Tessellate won without problems, at the turn 250.

Pyrochette vs United Flora.
As expected, the UF won. They killed the Pyrochette at the turn 280.

[Timstone]

We're nearing the end.
Who do you think will win and also how long do you expect the Last game will Last?

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
We're nearing the end.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Yea! Think my computer will be happiest than anybody else to finish the games!


Timstone said:
Who do you think will win



I'm pretty sure the final will be between the United Flora and the Tessellate.
But I'm not sure who of them would win, because I was not playing test games between them, then, only can guess...

Think the Tessellate has the advantage, thanks the armor skip weapons...
In the other hand, although I did several improvements into the Tessellate's scripts, we can't miss that the UF won the final in the Death Match 2, without problems.


Timstone said:
and also how long do you expect the Last game will Last?


I'm considering to run a play off for the final: the first AI to win 4 games will be the winner.
Think will be able to run the final in 3-4 days.

[Master Belisarius]

Narn Regime vs Tessellate
The Tessellate won fast, at the turn 190.

[Master Belisarius]

Pyrochette vs Aquilaeian.
The Aquilaeian won at the turn 420 (it was a 24 hours game!).

Then, here the standings for the group E1:

Group E1
United Flora 4
Aquilaeian 2
Pyrochette 0


In the group E2, the Tessellate was the winner, then, they will fight the semi-final against the Aquilaeian.

The UF still need to wait, to see if will play against the Narn or the Verduran.

[AMF]

Belisarius et al,

Can I ask you a question or two? I would like to use the AIs to rigorously test a new map I have made (it's a*very*( different map)

1) how do you do practically an AI deathmatch? Ie: how do you load up the game so only AIs are running, etc...
2) how long do you let it run (in turns) before calling the game, or do you just let it run until only one is left? And, if so, how practically is this done?
3) in your experience, how well, if at all, do AIs deal with one-way warp points?
4)Do you have a list of, say, the top 20 AIs that I should use to do such a rigorous test as I describe?

thanks in advance for any and all assistance!

Alarik

[Master Belisarius]

alarikf said:
1) how do you do practically an AI deathmatch? Ie: how do you load up the game so only AIs are running, etc...



In my game tests, discovered that an empire started as human and changed to be 100% under AI control, doesn't work exactly like an empire started as AI player.
Then, in my test games always use an "human empire" as first player, with all the ministers OFF. Usually I make them start into a systems without warpoints (then, nobody take advantage of them).
After the human empire, I load the empires that want to test and select the option "Computer Controlled".


alarikf said:
2) how long do you let it run (in turns) before calling the game, or do you just let it run until only one is left? And, if so, how practically is this done?



Use a program that I did some years ago, named "SE4 batch". With it, I can run the game X turns and keep save games each 10 turns (for example).
If you wish, can send it to you (although some people had problems running it).

Also, Ruatha, who posted some *.bat files that can help you to run SE4 x number of times.

IF you have XP (and think W2000), you can use this bat:

set counter = 0
:loop
set /a counter = %counter% + 1
set
if exist Gamepath\Se4.exe
IF "%counter%"==5 goto End
START /WAIT
Gamepath\Se4.exe "Game" "password" "0" "modname" -nd
goto loop
:End

This Bat would run SEIV 5 times (of course you can change the number of times).

If you have Win98, need to use this other bat (also posted by Ruatha and works in XP too):

@echo off >NULL
if not [%1]==[] goto Okay
echo Syntax: %0 Number
goto End
:Okay
if [%2]==[::] goto 2nd time around
if [%3]==[::] goto 3rd time around
if [%4]==[::] goto 4th time around
if [%5]==[::] goto 5th time around

%comspec% /e:2048 /c %0 %1 ::
goto End
:2nd time around
for %%v in (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) do call %0 %1 %%v ::
goto End
:3rd time around
for %%v in (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) do call %0 %1 %2 %%v ::
goto End
:4th time around
for %%v in (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) do call %0 %1 %2 %3 %%v ::
goto End
:5th time around
echo %2%3%4
if [%1]==[%4] exit
if [%1]==[%3%4] exit
if [%1]==[%2%3%4] exit
start /w Gamepath\Se4.exe "Game" "password" "0" "modname"
:End

You need to run this bat, indicating the number of loops.
If you named the bat AUTO, then, you can call it with:
AUTO 5, and will run 5 times.


alarikf said:
3) in your experience, how well, if at all, do AIs deal with one-way warp points?



Never did this test... but think the AI would be in problems to manage it.


alarikf said:
4)Do you have a list of, say, the top 20 AIs that I should use to do such a rigorous test as I describe?



Think you should try my signature to check the firsts AI deatmatch editions.
Here the list of the 18 best AIs of the current Death Match.

United Flora
Pyrochette
Corrian
Tessellate
Orks
Toron
Space Vikings
Fazrah
EEE
Aquilaeian
CueCappa
Rage
Earth Alliance
Narn Regime
Sallega
Verduran
Khrel
Gron


alarikf said:
thanks in advance for any and all assistance!
Alarik


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif No problem!

[Master Belisarius]

Narn Regime vs Verduran.
The Verduran won at the turn 220 and then, forced a Tie Break.

[Master Belisarius]

Narn Regime vs Verduran
The Verduran won at the turn 210.

Verduran vs Narn Regime
The Narn Regime won by points at the turn 500.

Then, the Verduran won the Tie Break and got the place to the Semi-Final.

Here the standings after the Fifth Round:

GROUP E1
United Flora 4
Aquilaeian 2
Pyrochette 0

GROUP E2
Tessellate 4
Verduran 2 => Won the tie break
Narn Regime 2


In the Semi-final, each AI will play 2 games, and the winner of each group will reach the final.

GROUP F1
United Flora
Verduran

Group F2
Tessellate
Aquilaeian

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Verduran.
The UF won at the turn 450.

Tessellate vs Aquilaeian.
The Tessellaye defeated the Aquilaeian pretty fast, at the turn 210.

At this point, is not a secret that the UF and the Tessellate are the strongest AIs (at least with this game settings), and that the final will be again between them.

[TerranC]

Master Belisarius said:
At this point, is not a secret that the UF and the Tessellate are the strongest AIs (at least with this game settings), and that the final will be again between them.



Du-du-dun!

Everybody, get a chair and bring some popcorn!

[Master Belisarius]

TerranC said:

Master Belisarius said:
At this point, is not a secret that the UF and the Tessellate are the strongest AIs (at least with this game settings), and that the final will be again between them.



Du-du-dun!

Everybody, get a chair and bring some popcorn!


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
By the way, I keep saved all the games have runned...
I have stopped to sent the savegames to Gandalph, because he wasn't posted them anymore.
But if somebody want a game, just let me know and will send it (no mater the size!).

[Timstone]

Too bad Gandalph doesn't put them on the net anymore. These matches have to be preserved for the next generation, they are a testimony to all us modders, AI writers and fans.
I wish I had a server, it would be dedicated to SE IV.

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Too bad Gandalph doesn't put them on the net anymore. These matches have to be preserved for the next generation, they are a testimony to all us modders, AI writers and fans.
I wish I had a server, it would be dedicated to SE IV.


hehehehe, I believe that your you exaggerate a bit!

[Master Belisarius]

Verduran vs United Flora.
The United Flora won at the turn 320.

Aquilaeian vs Tessellate.
The Tessellate won at the turn 200.

Then, the United Flora and the Tessellate reached the Final...

[Caduceus]

Master Belisarius said:
Then, the United Flora and the Tessellate reached the Final...



Drumroll, please...

[Master Belisarius]

wildcard06 said:

Master Belisarius said:
Then, the United Flora and the Tessellate reached the Final...


Drumroll, please...



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif To delay a bit the end, started to run games between the Verduran and the Aquilaeian, to know who would get the third place.
Will play 2 games for each AI, and if after both games does exist a draw... I'll run a Tie Break.

[Timstone]

The tension is mounting.
What are the prizes for the three winners? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Karibu]

Has United Flora and the Tessellate lost a single game during this match? I have not seen any mention of UF losing but I'm not sure of Tessellate.

[Master Belisarius]

Karibu said:
Has United Flora and the Tessellate lost a single game during this match? I have not seen any mention of UF losing but I'm not sure of Tessellate.


None of both lost a game...

The UF won all the games by KO, except a game against the Verduran that won by points at the turn 500.

The Tessellate won all the games by KO.

[Master Belisarius]

Verduran vs Aquilaeian.
After a loong game, the Verduran won by points at the turn 500.-

Have started the other game this morning, and after 14 hours playing, seems like the Aquilaeian would win.
Then, probably will need to run a tie break.

Will be out during the weekend, then, the Final will need to wait a bit more! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
The tension is mounting.
What are the prizes for the three winners? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


Hmmm, considering I did the Aquilaeian and the Tessellate... don't think would be fair a prize!!!

[Gandalph]

Timstone said:
Too bad Gandalph doesn't put them on the net anymore. These matches have to be preserved for the next generation, they are a testimony to all us modders, AI writers and fans.
I wish I had a server, it would be dedicated to SE IV.



Sorry guys and gals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif, I have been very busy and the files have been backing up in my mailbox. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif There are so many now, it seems a daunting task but, I will get them ALL posted to the web site this weekend (probably by Sat night). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif You may look for them then.

[Timstone]

Alrighty then, three cheers for Gandalph!! /threads/images/Graemlins/icon44.gif

[Karibu]

When the need is greatest, the Gray Wizard comes to save the day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Gandalph said:
Sorry guys and gals http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif, I have been very busy and the files have been backing up in my mailbox. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif There are so many now, it seems a daunting task but, I will get them ALL posted to the web site this weekend (probably by
Sat night). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif You may look for them then.


Cool!
Then, later will continue sending the files!!!

Well, my computer crashed running the second game between Aquilaeian and Verdurans at the turn 460... I'm start to run the remainder turns... but will be back to see the result the next Sunday.

Regards!
MB

[Master Belisarius]

Aquilaeian vs Verduran.
The Aquilaeian won at the turn 500 by points.

Now, I'm starting a Tie break.
If after play the two games, every AI won a game by points (like happened), will sumarize the points in both games for each AI, and the AI with most points will win.

[Master Belisarius]

Verduran vs Aquilaeian Tie Break 1.

The Verdurans won by KO at the turn 310, and seems like they would get the 3rd place.

[Timstone]

Damn pitty your computer crashed, I hope it hasn't damaged anything.
Almost down to the last match.

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Damn pitty your computer crashed, I hope it hasn't damaged anything.
Almost down to the last match.


Yea... At least the computer still it's working!
Time in time, the computer doesn't recognize the HD and then, the game is halted and can't continue running until I'm back. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif
After the contest will need to do some maintenance work in my computer...

[Master Belisarius]

Master Belisarius said:
Verduran vs Aquilaeian Tie Break 1.

The Verdurans won by KO at the turn 310, and seems like they would get the 3rd place.


I was wrong...

Aquilaeian vs Verduran Tie Break 2.

The Aquilaeian defeated the Verduran at the turn 300 and then, got the third place!

At the end think it's fair, because the Verduran ships looks too soft to my taste.
They build massive fleets, true, but don't think they could offer a decent challenge against an human player.
As example, some Aquilaeian BA had +20 experience won in battle...

Right now, I'm starting the first match between the United Flora and the Tessellate!!!

[Timstone]

Oh yeah! The last match between the best AI's of SE IV!!
Grab your popcorn here and enjoy the show!

I'm glad there is a Dutch made shipset involved, gives as a Dutchman a proud feeling. Way to go Henk Brouwer and of course Master Belisarius!

[Gandalph]

OK, OK, it was more of a task than I expected and some relatives dropped by. I am working on it and will post here when I finish.

[Timstone]

Take your time Gandalph. We'll be waiting patiently.
Thanks for the effort!

[Timstone]

Gandalph:

In another thread I AT quoted this statement of you:

WARNING:
This game is NOT suitable for students, interns, apprentices, or anyone else who is expected to pass tests on a regular basis. Do not think about SEIV strategies while operating heavy machinery. Do not begin learning SEIV without first making arrangements for someone to check on you daily. If you find that your game has continued for more than 36 hours straight then you should consult a physician immediately (Do NOT show him the game!)

Could I use it as a signature on other sites?

[Gandalph]

Timstone said:
Gandalph:

In another thread I AT quoted this statement of you:

WARNING:
This game is NOT suitable for students, interns, apprentices, or anyone else who is expected to pass tests on a regular basis. Do not think about SEIV strategies while operating heavy machinery. Do not begin learning SEIV without first making arrangements for someone to check on you daily. If you find that your game has continued for more than 36 hours straight then you should consult a physician immediately (Do NOT show him the game!)

Could I use it as a signature on other sites?



Sorry man, wrong Gandalph. There was a day when I was the only one, then Gandalf Parker showed up (note the spelling difference). We are frequently confused now.

[Master Belisarius]

Gandalph said:
OK, OK, it was more of a task than I expected and some relatives dropped by. I am working on it and will post here when I finish.


Don't worry. I know they're a lot and most of them are big files.
Will start to send you the other files, later.

[Master Belisarius]

I have started the game between the UF and the Tessellate, this morning around the 7:30 here.
Now, the time it's 22:45 and still they're fighting... around the turn 388.
The Tessellate are wining by points, but the game still looks balanced and think the UF still could win.

[Timstone]

Oh crap!! I'm embarresed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif
Sorry for the confusion.

Edit:
Pray for the UF to win.

[Hunpecked]

Master Belisarius writes:

>> The Tessellate are wining by points, but the game still looks balanced and think the UF still could win.

Flower power! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

You know there was something fishy about those plants in Mario bro's.

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Tessellate 1
The Tessellate won by points at the turn 500.

It was a long and very balanced game.
During the first 100 turns the Tessellate has the initiative, but the UF counter-attacked and around the turn 300 they controled more systems.
In the end game, the Tessellate controled most the systems and the UF was falling.

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs United Flora. 1
The Tessellate won at the turn 350.

It was a weird game: around the turn 250 the Tessellate lost several systems and the UF was attacking with big fleets... and 100 turns later the UF was crushed!

Think the clue are the Tessellate's BAs.

[Timstone]

Damn, the Tesselate have won. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
I was hoping the UF would win. Ah well, sll hail to the Tesselate!
I wish I had the time to play a very long game of SE IV, sigh... where is the time.
Great work Master Belisarius. Thumbs up for you!

[Makinus]

will a new TDM Modpack version be launched using the better races in this competition?

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Damn, the Tesselate have won. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



Not yet... but seems like they will win (right now I'm playing the 4th game)


Timstone said:
I was hoping the UF would win. Ah well, sll hail to the Tesselate!



heheehe, but after all the UF won the previous contest... and defeated the Tessellate badly!


Timstone said:
I wish I had the time to play a very long game of SE IV, sigh... where is the time.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Timstone said:
Great work Master Belisarius. Thumbs up for you!


hehehe, thanks. But really was funny to me run this contest.

[Master Belisarius]

Makinus said:
will a new TDM Modpack version be launched using the better races in this competition?


Don't know. You should ask to Mephisto!

But anyway, most the better races are already included.

Into the 12 better races, only the Verduran is not included into the TDM.

Into the better 18 races included into this contest, just the Verduran and the Corrian are not TDM races.

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs United Flora. 2
The Tessellate won at the turn 220.

The games 1 and 2, were balanced games, but this time the Tessellate won pretty fast.
Was checking the game, and the interesting was that the UF surrendered before to be anihhilated.

Right now I'm running the 4th game (turn 384) and looks like the Tessellate would win...

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs United Flora 2.
Again the UF offered a very good challenge... but the Tessellate won at the turn 400.

Then, the Tessellate reached the 4 victories and WON THE CONTEST!

The final was score was 4-0.

Think they defeated the UF thanks 2 major improvements (comparing with the previous contest):
- changed their Culture to Merchants and then can keep biggest fleets.
- include cheap BA ships (with many crystalline armors) that can destroy any UF ship.

[Master Belisarius]

Here the final standings:

Final 1st Place Tessellate 27
Final 2nd Place United Flora 23
SemiFinal 3rd Place Aquilaeian 19
SemiFinal 4th Place Verduran 18
Round 5 5th Place Narn Regime 10
Round 5 6th Place Pyrochette 8
Round 4 7th Place Fazrah 10
Round 4 8th Place Earth Alliance 7
Round 3 9th Place Space Vikings 6
Round 3 10th Place Khrel 4
Round 3 10th Place CueCappa 4
Round 3 12th Place Toron 3
Round 2 12th Place EEE 3
Round 2 14th Place Orks 2
Round 2 15th Place Gron 1
Round 2 15th Place Sallega 1
Round 2 15th Place Rage 1
Round 2 15th Place Corrian 1
Round 1 19th Place Teslik 0
Round 1 19th Place Piundon 0
Round 1 19th Place Azorani 0
Round 1 19th Place Namovans 0
Round 1 19th Place Klingon 0
Round 1 19th Place Drakol 0

Also, I have attached the XLS with all the details.

[Renegade 13]

The end has come! The Tessellate are the new kings of the AI Universe! All hail the Tessellate

[narf poit chez BOOM]

/me drops hailstones on the Tesselate.

And congratulations to Master Belisarius, for all that hard work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Master Belisarius]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
/me drops hailstones on the Tesselate.

And congratulations to Master Belisarius, for all that hard work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Thanks Narf! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Rathar]

I dislike ai games but it's been fun following this thread!

Thanks!

[Gandalph]

Everything I have is now up on the page.

MB - Go ahead and send the rest of the files. I will get them up ASAP.

[Master Belisarius]

Gandalph said:
Everything I have is now up on the page.

MB - Go ahead and send the rest of the files. I will get them up ASAP.


Thanks Gandalph!
I'm sending the files in groups of 4-5.

[Rollo]

Thanks for running these contests MB.

And congrats on your victorious Tessellate.

[Master Belisarius]

Rollo said:
Thanks for running these contests MB.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks Rollo!


Rollo said:
And congrats on your victorious Tessellate.


Thanks again... but in some way, believe it's your victory too!! hehehe After all, think the UF are part of them!!

As I wrote, think this time the Tessellate did the difference thanks the "Merchants" Culture (they can build now so many ships as the UF does), and thanks their cheap and strong BA's.

[Slick]

Ok, now that the Tessellate have won, I have noticed that I don't have that race. Has someone compiled an AI repository somewhere for downloads?

BTW, since I don't download AI's very often, just for terminology sake, what is the correct term for a set of files which includes and AI race and an associated shipset? Those are what I'm looking for.

[geoschmo]

Race files? Although I've heard the term Shipset used for them whether or not they have the AI files. You don't see too many available that don't have any AI files included. Even if it's just a default race renamed and with a different descrition.

[Makinus]

someone (not me, because i´m lazy) should create a shipset/AI files depository... or just an AI files depository so we can get AI´s and combine them with our favorite shipsets...

[Master Belisarius]

Slick said:
Ok, now that the Tessellate have won, I have noticed that I don't have that race. Has someone compiled an AI repository somewhere for downloads?

BTW, since I don't download AI's very often, just for terminology sake, what is the correct term for a set of files which includes and AI race and an associated shipset? Those are what I'm looking for.


The Tesellate are included into the TDM.

[Slick]

Most odd. I have v3.40 but no Tessellate. I'll download it again.

edit: aaaah. I only had v3.40 beta

[Yith_Saulkar]

Master Belisarius said:
Here the final standings:

Round 5 6th Place Pyrochette 8




WHAT? 6th Place!!! Someone should be enslaved for this!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Hail Master B! Been a long time... Kinda cool to see the Pyrochette still kicking around.

[Puke]

i agree. i would very much like to see a repository of the non-TDM AI files and shipsets that were used in the tourney.

[Black_Knyght]

Puke said:
i agree. i would very much like to see a repository of the non-TDM AI files and shipsets that were used in the tourney.



Has anybody really considered doing this again, maybe this time around with non-TDM AI files? Maybe including some newer files and shipsets?

[Urendi Maleldil]

Hear hear!

I'll polish up my underhanded AI Cheaters race to soundly trounce the competition.