AI Deathmach 3

[Master Belisarius]

Well, considering I'll have some time during October and because have received requests of some of you, decided to run this new one (and for sure the Last!) AI deathmatch.

Here my proposed rules.

General Rules.
===========

- Starting date 09/29/2004.
- One on One games (1 AI vs 1 AI).
- Will use the newest available AI scripts, or if the AI's author want, could send me an updated Version.
- The games will be played using a custom map. I have a map done by Cybersol (see here AI Dueling Map (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1053721907.zip) ). But if somebody else has a better idea, we can consider it.

Game Settings
==============
Similar to the previous deathmatch:
- TDM data files
- SMALL AI BONUS
- 3 Good Starting Planets
- no random events
- simultaneous movement and the first Player for the "human" player.

Victory Conditions
==================
- The victory can be decided by:
a) One AI was able to destroy 100% the other AI.
b) The AI with more victory points after 500 turns.
- I will post the save game at the end of every game.

AIs Involved.
=============
Was thinking in 24.

My proposal is, the 24 first AI's in the previous Death Match:

1 United Flora
2 Tessellate
3 Space Vikings
4 Aquilaeian
5 CueCappa
6 Narn Regime
7 Pyrochette
8 Toron
9 Fazrah
10 EEE
11 Khrel
12 Orks
13 Gron
14 Rage
15 Namovans
15 Earth Alliance
17 Sallega
17 Piundon
19 Klingon
20 Teslik
20 Drakol
20 Azorani
20 Praetorians
20 Colonial

I'm open to change the list, if somebody has:
- a new race script
or
- an updated srcript of a race that in the previous contest, finished after the place 24.
or
- just consider that I'm missing a good race


Fixture
=======
Will decide it after consider the number of AIs involved.


Please let me know your suggestions!

[TerranC]

Yay! Another one! Unfortunately I don't have any new AIs that got my attention on hand, but I am going to be checking this thread more then often!

Go UFE! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Slynky]

"- One on One games (1 AI vs 1 AI). "

Maybe I am not understanding...where does the human player come in at?

[Phoenix-D]

Slynky said:
"- One on One games (1 AI vs 1 AI). "

Maybe I am not understanding...where does the human player come in at?



They don't. The point is to watch the AI's beat on each other and see which one wins.

[TerranC]

Slynky said:
"- One on One games (1 AI vs 1 AI). "

Maybe I am not understanding...where does the human player come in at?



There is no human "player" in the deathmatches. Master belisarius will be the "player" and he will only be the observer of the AI matchs. The point of AI deathmatchs is to see which AI stands out above the rest by setting them up against other AIs; The Narn AI won the first one, and the UFE AI won the second one; AI performance at these AI deathmatches done by MB has become the standard on which we can judge the AI's proficiency.

[Slynky]

Ahhh, I see (slaps forehead).

Since I never play with AI, I guess I am just out of the "loop".

[Master Belisarius]

TerranC said:
Yay! Another one! Unfortunately I don't have any new AIs that got my attention on hand, but I am going to be checking this thread more then often!

Go UFE! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks!

[Master Belisarius]

Slynky said:
"- One on One games (1 AI vs 1 AI). "

Maybe I am not understanding...where does the human player come in at?


TerranC and Phoenix already answered it (the games are between 2 AIs and one "human" empire that doesn't do anything).

I'm doing it, because:
a) Every game must be started with at least one human player.
b) noted that if you start a race as under human control, and later change it to full AI control, doesn't work exactly in the same way than if you started the race as under AI control from the setup.

Then, my workaround was start the game with a "dummy" Human player, and the 2 real contenders starting under "pure" AI control.

Maybe it was fixed with the Lastest patches... but I want to be sure!

[Deathstalker]

I vote for the inclusion of the Tesselite (sp?), darn hardest AI I've faced. In almost every game I've played lately they total all the other AI's and then I'm facing fleets of baseships that just annihilate me.

[Master Belisarius]

Deathstalker said:
I vote for the inclusion of the Tesselite (sp?), darn hardest AI I've faced. In almost every game I've played lately they total all the other AI's and then I'm facing fleets of baseships that just annihilate me.


hehehe, thanks, but you make me feel ashamed! (Gryphin did the beautiful shipset and I did the AI scripts).
The Tessellate already were included (because they finished second in the previous Death Match).
Thanks again!

[Timstone]

Ah, great idea to host another AI Deathmatch. Much praise and thanks to you Master Belisarius.

I'm curious who will win. My money is on the Drakol. I always like those guys. I play a lot myself with that shipset.

[Ragnarok]

I think perhaps we could have the Tesselite take this match.

But I look forward to seeing how this match turns out, MB!

[Gandalph]

Absolutely tremendous idea to do this again. I am glad my Tesli'k made the list in 20th, but I have since updated their files based on the results of the Last Deathmatch. I will double check and send you the zipped files.

[Master Belisarius]

Gandalph said:
Absolutely tremendous idea to do this again. I am glad my Tesli'k made the list in 20th, but I have since updated their files based on the results of the Last Deathmatch. I will double check and send you the zipped files.


Great.
Also, if you have updated files for your other two races, will be happy to include them, replacing races that had not changes from the previous contest.

[Gandalph]

I have totally revamped my Corrian race. The updated files are in my sig. Alas I have not had the time to do anything about my Psychic Ekhazon yet, but may find the time before you get started. I will let you know.

[Master Belisarius]

Ok. Just let me know and will include the Ekhazon too.

[Timstone]

Master Belisarius:
Please hold on with the Dra'kol. As you noticed I've posted a message to the owners of this great shipset. I hope they respond. If not I will send you the small updates I've made. Okay?

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Master Belisarius:
Please hold on with the Dra'kol. As you noticed I've posted a message to the owners of this great shipset. I hope they respond. If not I will send you the small updates I've made. Okay?


No problem, I'll keep them, hehehe.
Anyway, although I love the shipset and like their style too (the only Intel race in SEIV), think they're not very strong for the same reason I like them: is very difficult to be competitive in SEIV, playing an Intel style.

[TerranC]

Master Belisarius said:

Timstone said:
Master Belisarius:
Please hold on with the Dra'kol. As you noticed I've posted a message to the owners of this great shipset. I hope they respond. If not I will send you the small updates I've made. Okay?


No problem, I'll keep them, hehehe.
Anyway, although I love the shipset and like their style too (the only Intel race in SEIV), think they're not very strong.



The Last AIs weren't, unfortunately. You know the deal with gas giant races. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif But maybe this time they'll get futher...? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Master Belisarius]

[b]TerranC said:
The Last AIs weren't, unfortunately. You know the deal with gas giant races. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif But maybe this time they'll get futher...? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


hehehe, I have edited my post after you wrote your answer!

But don´t think the problem is for the Gas Giant (at least in the AI Deathmatches), think the problem is that's very difficult to play with his style in SEIV.

[Timstone]

Okay, I'm sorry Mater Belisarius. I thought the Dra'kol were obsolete (their AI files), but it seems I have DL'ed an earlier Version of the one that is included with the TDM Mod.
Just let those AI files enter the competition.

Go Dra'kol!! /threads/images/Graemlins/Flag_Checkered.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Flag_Netherlands.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Okay, I'm sorry Mater Belisarius. I thought the Dra'kol were obsolete (their AI files), but it seems I have DL'ed an earlier Version of the one that is included with the TDM Mod.
Just let those AI files enter the competition.



Have checked, and yes, the Drakol's files looks updated!


Timstone said:
Go Dra'kol!! /threads/images/Graemlins/Flag_Checkered.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Flag_Netherlands.gif


hehehe, I will be happy too, if they go far!

[Chronon]

Master Belisarius, I finished my Verdurans after Death Match 2, and I'd love to see how they stack up against the other AIs. They are my adaptation of the United Flora (thanks again Rollo!), so I imagine they'll be reasonably competitive. If you have an extra spot, I'd really appreciate it if you could include them in Death Match 3. Thanks!

PS. I have attached the files to this post.

[Master Belisarius]

Chronon said:
Master Belisarius, I finished my Verdurans after Death Match 2, and I'd love to see how they stack up against the other AIs. They are my adaptation of the United Flora (thanks again Rollo!), so I imagine they'll be reasonably competitive. If you have an extra spot, I'd really appreciate it if you could include them in Death Match 3. Thanks!
PS. I have attached the files to this post.



Edit:
My first answer was positive, but... have compared the United Flora and the Verdurans AI files, and some files looks too similiar to my taste.

For example:
- construction_vehicles, planet_types, construction_units (and probably other files, are the same.
- political only a few changes.

Please could you send me a PM or e-mail, and tell me the changes you did? (The biggest difference to me, is that the Verdurans has not Deeply religious).

I'm not saying will not include them, but first would prefer to see a bit more and do some tests.

[Makinus]

master Belisarius: do you have some script or tool that you use in the Deathmach? Would you like to share it?

I ask beacuse i´m working in a devnull variant and a tool or script that allow me to test AIs against each other would be very useful...

thanks in advance

[Tampa_Gamer]

Hey MB-

Did I miss a post about the Dra'kol? Was there a problem I need to fix in their AI files?

-TG

[Master Belisarius]

Makinus said:
master Belisarius: do you have some script or tool that you use in the Deathmach? Would you like to share it?

I ask beacuse i´m working in a devnull variant and a tool or script that allow me to test AIs against each other would be very useful...

thanks in advance


I'm using SE4Batch, a tool to run "batch" games that I did some years ago (have posted it into the sharpnel forum).
What SO are you using? Because it worked fine in W95/98, but had problems installing in W2K,XP. If you have W2K or XP, I can send you a Zip file to run it.

[Master Belisarius]

Tampa_Gamer said:
Hey MB-

Did I miss a post about the Dra'kol? Was there a problem I need to fix in their AI files?

-TG


Hi Tampa! Nice to see you around!
Nope, does not exist any problem with the Dra'kol.
Timstone doesn't knew that you released an updated Version for 1.91 (for this he requested to you, to use a Dra'kol Version modiffied by him).

From the first time the Dra'kol were in my list, and will continue there... and hope they will go far in the contest.

[Aiken]

It doesn't work properly in 2k/xp. Ruatha suggested this script (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB23&Number=184858&Forum= f23&Words=%2Bse4batch%20status%20-pbw&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=184849&Search=true& where=sub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=5&newertype=y &olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post184858) to run automated turns.

[Master Belisarius]

aiken said:
It doesn't work properly in 2k/xp. Ruatha suggested this script (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB23&Number=184858&Forum= f23&Words=%2Bse4batch%20status%20-pbw&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=184849&Search=true& where=sub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=5&newertype=y &olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post184858) to run automated turns.


Although think the Ruatha's scripts works ok, must say that have used the SE4Batch in W2k without problems (just avoiding the installing setup).
IF somebody want, could send the Version I have used under win2k (just need to unzip it and configure the folders).

[Aiken]

I want http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

aiken.doe
@
gmail
.
com

[Master Belisarius]

Sorry Aiken, I have missed your post. I'm sending it right now...

EDIT: have received back the mail... could be a problem with gmail?
See here:

I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses.
This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out.
<aiken.doe@gmail.com>:
64.233.171.27 failed after I sent the message.
Remote host said: 552 Illegal Attachment

[Fyron]

Gmail's spam filters tend to reject emails with attachments that contain .exes. Even in zips. Sometimes. Try raring it instead of zipping it. http://www.rarlabs.com/

[Aiken]

Gmail tends to be very persevering in attachment's rejection. Not the fist case in my experience.

MB, please send programm to <font color="red"> aiken $ fromru * com </font>. This box allows any attachments in mail body.

Btw, if your zipped Version of SE4Batch is the same as the one that can be found in se.net download section (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&amp;d_op=viewdownload&amp;cid=8 &amp;min=10&amp;orderby=dateA&amp;show=10#Categorystart), then don't trouble yourself with mailing it, I'll download it myself.

Thanx.

Can't wait to see the great battle of UF vs Tesselate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (not to hurt feelings of other modders, but...)

[Master Belisarius]

Imperator Fyron said:
Gmail's spam filters tend to reject emails with attachments that contain .exes. Even in zips. Sometimes. Try raring it instead of zipping it. http://www.rarlabs.com/


Thanks Fyron will try it.
By the way, I have generated the zip file, using RAR! hehehe
(sent it with the zip format, because it's the most popular).

[Master Belisarius]

aiken said:
Gmail tends to be very persevering in attachment's rejection. Not the fist case in my experience.

MB, please send programm to <font color="red"> aiken $ fromru * com </font>. This box allows any attachments in mail body.

Btw, if your zipped Version of SE4Batch is the same as the one that can be found in se.net download section (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&amp;d_op=viewdownload&amp;cid=8 &amp;min=10&amp;orderby=dateA&amp;show=10#Categorystart), then don't trouble yourself with mailing it, I'll download it myself.

Thanx.

Can't wait to see the great battle of UF vs Tesselate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (not to hurt feelings of other modders, but...)


Ok, will send it again to both emails using a rar file.
And no, is not exactlty the same file, because into the download section you will find the Version that has problems with win2k and xp.

[Fyron]

If the file is under 10 MBs, please send it to kazharii $ yahoo * com, and I can update it on SE.net. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif If it is larger, we can try something else.

[Master Belisarius]

Imperator Fyron said:
If the file is under 10 MBs, please send it to kazharii $ yahoo * com, and I can update it on SE.net. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif If it is larger, we can try something else.


Ok, thanks! I'm sending it now.
Already sent it to Aiken, but maybe somebody else want it too.
With RAR format, it has around 4MB (around 5MB ziped).
Thanks!

[Fyron]

Both Versions are now available. What do you think MB?

Link showing both files. (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&amp;d_op=search&amp;query=se4%2 0batch)

[Master Belisarius]

Imperator Fyron said:
Both Versions are now available. What do you think MB?

Link showing both files. (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/modules.php?name=Downloads&amp;d_op=search&amp;query=se4%2 0batch)


Thanks a lot Fyron!

[Aiken]

Master Belisarius said:
Ok, will send it again to both emails using a rar file.
And no, is not exactlty the same file, because into the download section you will find the Version that has problems with win2k and xp.



Got it. Thank you, MB!

[Master Belisarius]

Ok, now I'm starting the contest.

I did 6 Groups with 4 AIs each.
The 6 Ais with better ranking in the previous contest, were placed in the first place of each group.
All the Groups were filled, using a random function to decide the AI placement.
Here the Groups:

Group A1
United Flora
Drakol
Khrel
Sallega

Group A2
Tessellate
Gron
Pyrochette
Namovans

Group A3
Space Vikings
Corrian
Orks
Piundon

Group A4
Aquilaeian
Klingon
Fazrah
Toron

Group A5
Cue Cappa
EEE
Earth Alliance
Azorani

Group A6
Narn Regime
Verduran
Rage
Teslik

Every AI will play 3 games.
The first 3 AIs of each group, will continue to the next round.

Right now, I'm starting the game between the previous winner, the United Flora, against the improved Drakols!

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Drakol.

The UF won at the turn 140.
Again, the UF proved to be a very strong AI.
In the other side, the Drakol suffered the lack of Intel skills that every SE4 has... For example, when the Drakol had 40K intel points and the UF nothing, most of the Drakol's intel projects were Counter Intel 2!

Right now, started the game between Khrel and the Sallega.

[Master Belisarius]

When I try to upload a zip file with the savegame between UF and Drakol (1.4 MB), I'm receiving this error message:
Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 6000 seconds exceeded in C:\apache2\Apache2\htdocs\threads\addpost.php on line 22

Somebody could give me a tip to avoid this problem? (I will not divide the file, hehehe).

[Renegade 13]

Sounds like it thinks its taking too long to upload the file. But 6000 seconds is 100 minutes, so I kind of doubt that is the problem...sorry I don't have any help or suggestions.

[Tampa_Gamer]

Master Belisarius said:
United Flora vs Drakol.

The UF won at the turn 140.
Again, the UF proved to be a very strong AI.
In the other side, the Drakol suffered the lack of Intel skills that every SE4 has... For example, when the Drakol had 40K intel points and the UF nothing, most of the Drakol's intel projects were Counter Intel 2!

Right now, started the game between Khrel and the Sallega.



Oh well. Unfortunately, that is one of the drawbacks of staying with the original intent of this race (I have listed this specific flaw in my readme.txt file from the beginning). Hopefully SE5 will have an intelprojects file similar to the research file where you can prioritize and list the projects a race should use. For my own games I just use the Lucas/Tampa_Gamer Intel fix on the Gold disk to limit AI races to use only those projects that matter to them. Of course, this does not fix the problem of AIs having 10-12 projects at once.

-TG

[Master Belisarius]

Tampa_Gamer said:
Oh well. Unfortunately, that is one of the drawbacks of staying with the original intent of this race (I have listed this specific flaw in my readme.txt file from the beginning). Hopefully SE5 will have an intelprojects file similar to the research file where you can prioritize and list the projects a race should use. For my own games I just use the Lucas/Tampa_Gamer Intel fix on the Gold disk to limit AI races to use only those projects that matter to them. Of course, this does not fix the problem of AIs having 10-12 projects at once.
-TG


Yep, I know what are you talking about...
Anyway, always liked your Drakols, despite the problems with the Intel in SE4 and I'm glad you did those scripts.

[Master Belisarius]

Khrel vs Sallega.

At the turn 500, the Khrel defeated the Sallega by points.
Both are very interesting races and was a balanced game. The Sallega had a better start (the Khrel suffered the infamous "Colony Ship Bug"), but slowly the Khrel changed the game to their side.

The savegame has around 5MB... then, no way to upload it here!

I'm considering to create an e-mail account in yahoo (100mb), just for this contest. Then, everybody could login there, and download the files. Thoughts?

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs Gron.

A game between to Religious races. The Tessellate won at the turn 191, and although played a good time without colonize Gas planets (the "Colony bug"!), anyway had not big problems to defeat the Gron.

[Timstone]

Great progress, I really like to read this kind of stuff!
Keep up the good work Master Belisarius.

[Gandalph]

Master Belisarius said:
Khrel vs Sallega.

At the turn 500, the Khrel defeated the Sallega by points.
Both are very interesting races and was a balanced game. The Sallega had a better start (the Khrel suffered the infamous "Colony Ship Bug"), but slowly the Khrel changed the game to their side.

The savegame has around 5MB... then, no way to upload it here!

I'm considering to create an e-mail account in yahoo (100mb), just for this contest. Then, everybody could login there, and download the files. Thoughts?



I have space on my server to host the savegames if you want. Send me an email or PM.

[Fyron]

Master Belisarius said:
Khrel vs Sallega.

At the turn 500, the Khrel defeated the Sallega by points.
Both are very interesting races and was a balanced game. The Sallega had a better start (the Khrel suffered the infamous "Colony Ship Bug"), but slowly the Khrel changed the game to their side.

The savegame has around 5MB... then, no way to upload it here!

I'm considering to create an e-mail account in yahoo (100mb), just for this contest. Then, everybody could login there, and download the files. Thoughts?

I thought there was a large limit to file attachment sizes here? Upwards of 30 MBs? Try using RAR compression format. Generally much better than ZIP by all accounts. http://www.rarlabs.com

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Great progress, I really like to read this kind of stuff!
Keep up the good work Master Belisarius.


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks Timstone!

[Master Belisarius]

Imperator Fyron said:
I thought there was a large limit to file attachment sizes here? Upwards of 30 MBs?



But the file that wanted to upload has only 1.5 Mb.



Imperator Fyron said:
Try using RAR compression format. Generally much better than ZIP by all accounts. http://www.rarlabs.com


hehehe, I ziped it using Winrar.
Always I use RAR, just used the zip format because with Zip had 1.5mb and with RAR 1.4 (both with best compression), then, considering the zip it's the most popular format and the difference was not so big, decided to keep it with the zip format.

[Master Belisarius]

Gandalph said:
I have space on my server to host the savegames if you want. Send me an email or PM.


It would be great! Already sent a PM! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Pyrochette vs Namovans

A game between 2 Temporal races.
The Pyrochette won at the turn 230.
Was interesting but the Pyrochette killed all the Namovans planets before the turn 200 (a sun destroyed finished the 3 homeworlds...). But the Namovans lost the Last ship many turns after it (due lack of resources, of course!).

The Namovans are a good AI, but looks somewhat outdated (sad Alpha Kodiak had not time to update them). The Pyrochette always had the initiative, and for the time the Pyrochette's BA started to show his power, the game was already decided.

[Master Belisarius]

Space Vikings vs Corrian

The Space Vikings won at the turn 330.
It was a very interesting game. The Vikings had many problems to defeat the Corrian. In fact, around the turn 200 sill the game don't seemed decided.
Really it was nice to see so great ships designes in both sides.

This group has 4 great AIs! (Right now I'm looking the match between the Orks and Piundon, and it's very interesting!).

[Fyron]

Master Belisarius said:
But the file that wanted to upload has only 1.5 Mb.

I don't see the problem?

"You may attach a file if you like (no bigger than 30000000 bytes please)."

1.5 MB is much, much smaller than ~30 MB, so you should have no problems uploading it. Did an upload fail, or what? If so, some bug has occured and Richard/Mindi need to fix it.

[Gandalph]

The Page is up!
It can be found at MB's AI Deathmatch Files (http://www.ekcory.net/SEIV/deathmatch.html)

[Master Belisarius]

Imperator Fyron said:
I don't see the problem?

"You may attach a file if you like (no bigger than 30000000 bytes please)."

1.5 MB is much, much smaller than ~30 MB, so you should have no problems uploading it. Did an upload fail, or what? If so, some bug has occured and Richard/Mindi need to fix it.


I have a DSL connection, but not so fast (256/64). Then, uploading I need some time... maybe it's really a timeout (looks like that).
If instead the 6000 seconds the error message said, the limit is 60.00 seconds (the message doesn't show the "."), it would be the reason.

[Master Belisarius]

Gandalph said:
The Page is up!
It can be found at MB's AI Deathmatch Files (http://www.ekcory.net/SEIV/deathmatch.html)


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thank you Gandalph!

[Master Belisarius]

Orks vs Piundon.

The Orks won by points at the turn 500.
Think it was the best game until now.
The Orks always had a great final sprint... and this time was not different.
The Piundon started much better and around the turn 200 I believed they would reach the victory! Conquered one of the Orks's systems and started to destroy another one with several strong fleets...
But again, at the end the Orks managed to stop the invasion and counter attack.
In my view, two very good AIs!

[Master Belisarius]

Aquilaeian vs Klingon.

The Aquilaeian won at the turn 280.
The Klingon looks somewhat outdated and with several flaws in his ships designes (sad God Emperor have not updated their scripts from a long time).

If the Aquilaeian can survive until build BA ship, they can be a very strong opponent (with shipyard 3, can build BA attack ships in just 3 turns!).

[Master Belisarius]

Here the fixture for the second round.

Every AI will play 4 games.

GROUP B1
First A1
Second A2
Third A3

GROUP B2
First A2
Second A3
Third A4

GROUP B3
First A3
Second A4
Third A5

GROUP B4
First A4
Second A5
Third A1

GROUP B5
First A5
Second A6
Third A2

GROUP B6
First A6
Second A1
Third A3

[Gandalf Parker]

I find this interesting but again Im wondering if there might not be a use for a program which will (slightly) randomize AI settings. Within the race descriptions of course. Just enough so that their preferences, abilities, trade agreements, responses, etc are not so well known.

[Master Belisarius]

Gandalf Parker said:
I find this interesting but again Im wondering if there might not be a use for a program which will (slightly) randomize AI settings. Within the race descriptions of course. Just enough so that their preferences, abilities, trade agreements, responses, etc are not so well known.


Think that program doesn't exist for SE4.
The only way to randomize your games against the AI, is having many many races installed and start a game against random opponents... For sure every game will be different.

Anyway, considering all the time have spent tuning my races, you can bet I wouldn't like to see them randomized by a program! hehehehe

[Gandalf Parker]

Master Belisarius said:

Gandalf Parker said:
I find this interesting but again Im wondering if there might not be a use for a program which will (slightly) randomize AI settings. Within the race descriptions of course. Just enough so that their preferences, abilities, trade agreements, responses, etc are not so well known.


Think that program doesn't exist for SE4.
The only way to randomize your games against the AI, is having many many races installed and start a game against random opponents... For sure every game will be different.

Anyway, considering all the time have spent tuning my races, you can bet I wouldn't like to see them randomized by a program! hehehehe



I knew it didnt exist but it wouldnt be difficult. It would be an external exe like mod-launcher. Clicking on it would make enough small changes to files in order to make them new. I was thinking that we might even want to move to an "acceptable_variants.txt" text done by the races makers.

I havent played the game as much as most here but even now if I see the Kithran green-guys near my home system I have an idea of how important it is to take out early, what trades I should make, what it likes and doesnt like. Having them randomized to start with different techs, different plus/minus on my actions, maybe ship designs and formations, then it would be enjoyable to have to find out each time.

[Fyron]

Play SE3... races were completely randomized there. It sucked...

[Master Belisarius]

I understand your point GP.
Anyway, think still you could try my suggestion: having many AI races into your HD and playing games with random opponents, is the best you can do.

Of course you could take the Fyron's suggestion, hehehe. I have played that game until death (my records in my SE3 multiplayer games was more than 60 games won, and 2 lost), but now think never will play it again (although still miss many features including the right click menu!).

[Master Belisarius]

Fazrah vs Toron

The Fazrah won by points after the 500 turns limit.

They played a better game than the strong Toron. Think have not reached the victory by death, just because they doesn't build enough ships... Even in the end game, with lots and lots of resources, the Fazrah had only around 250 ships (including colony ships, mine layers, sweepers, etc).

[Master Belisarius]

CueCappa vs EEE

The CueCappa won by points, at the turn 500.
A balanced game, where the CueCappa was more aggressive and deserved the victory.

[Timstone]

Hahaha... those stupid EEE lost! Hah!
I really don't like those single celled dudes. They make great allies, but I just don't like them. Must be their smell...

[Master Belisarius]

hehehehe, always liked to betray them!
Anyway, must say I really like the EEE scripts done by REX! After crush the original EEE, play against this Version, it's very very different and a lot more challenging!

Have you ever played against the EEEvil?? A very good (for his time) AI and very cool! Sadly, never was updated and then, is far to the current level of the AIs playing here.

[Timstone]

Sorry, I get the same feeling with the regular EEE when I play against EEEvil. Not my race I guess.
The new AI files for the EEE, where can I get them?

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Sorry, I get the same feeling with the regular EEE when I play against EEEvil. Not my race I guess.
The new AI files for the EEE, where can I get them?


The new files, are the TDM scripts for the EEE.

[Timstone]

Thanks for the help Master Belisarius!
How are the AI's progressing?

[Aiken]

MB, can you upload an AI scripts pack to the AIDM3 page? It would be nice to have all the best AIs in one single zip.

Addition: interesting, is it possible to write a "blitzkrieg" AI which is aimed at fastest victory achievement? E.g., victory in 70-100 turns instead of typical 200-300 turns.

[Timstone]

We will call them "Das Reich". I volunteer to adopt it as my personal shipset. Hehehe...
AT, are you interested to make the shipset? Or someone else with good modeling skills; besides my self. I don't have the patience to make one... and the inspiration.

[Gandalf Parker]

aiken said:
MB, can you upload an AI scripts pack to the AIDM3 page? It would be nice to have all the best AIs in one single zip.

Addition: interesting, is it possible to write a "blitzkrieg" AI which is aimed at fastest victory achievement? E.g., victory in 70-100 turns instead of typical 200-300 turns.



That would be good but I get the (frightened and probably incorrect) impression that all AI changes and mods are geared toward making the game more difficult. I guess Im more RPGer and soloplay than war-strategy or multiplay. Id like to see more spread.

I havent looked at all that is avaiable. Im still running pretty much un-modded so I wouldnt be surprised if someone corrected me on this. But what I have looked at so far I have mostly removed. Ive seen huge event files but they seemed to only add bad events. Ive seen mention of AI improvment mods but "improvement" seems to mean "harder to beat". Im sure they do a fine job but if all of the changes are in one direction then the feel of the game changes for me. Im guessing that later on I may want that, but for now Id like to see more variety and general spread of whats there if its available.

[Aiken]

GP, most part of your reflections is true, imho. For example, modding of AI_Speach.txt and AI_Politics.txt files is considered as "secondary" or even "not important" (that's my impression of course). But these files are responsible to AI "personality", so we are losing something with such approach.

At the same time, most of complains were about "weak AI", not "uncreative AI". So I think it was natural for AI modders to boost AI strength, not its RP aspects.
AI modding is a sort of contest, and why should someone write an exremly artistic, unpredictible, but helpless AI? The truth is that there are less than "1000 ways to do it", probably there is only 1 way to make successful AI with a slight set of unsignificant variations.

This game was not developed as a space RPG, it a human players who can make it RPG.

[Gandalf Parker]

aiken said:
At the same time, most of complains were about "weak AI", not "uncreative AI". So I think it was natural for AI modders to boost AI strength, not its RP aspects.
AI modding is a sort of contest, and why should someone write an exremly artistic, unpredictible, but helpless AI? The truth is that there are less than "1000 ways to do it", probably there is only 1 way to make successful AI with a slight set of unsignificant variations.

This game was not developed as a space RPG, it a human players who can make it RPG.



Its not only the speech and role playing. Again, I know Im talking ahead of myself and should look into things more, but it seems like the AIs could be more tactically different. I have seen some which seem to try and win by swarming colony ships, or by building mostly small fighting ships in fleets, or heavily geared toward research, and one which seems to be trying to win diplomatically. Im interested in more of that type of spread.

Some of the best ones I might be missing because they dont want to leave their mods. Does the "darkness" race from B5 concentrate on stealth and intelligence? Do the ferrengi concentrate on trade?

Also Id like more of an even spread in events. I may look into writing more good-luck events.

[Fyron]

You must not have seen the Eye Candy Mod or Adamant... these mods have plenty of good events in them. Plenty of bad as well, but there are good ones.

Most mods are not focused on the AI. Just TDM and AIC, really... Devnull to a minor extent, but it is more focused on balance. Other mods are focused on providing a vastly different playing environment, and the AI tends to be secondary...

[Gandalph]

Gandalf Parker said:

aiken said:
MB, can you upload an AI scripts pack to the AIDM3 page? It would be nice to have all the best AIs in one single zip.

Addition: interesting, is it possible to write a "blitzkrieg" AI which is aimed at fastest victory achievement? E.g., victory in 70-100 turns instead of typical 200-300 turns.



That would be good but I get the (frightened and probably incorrect) impression that all AI changes and mods are geared toward making the game more difficult. I guess Im more RPGer and soloplay than war-strategy or multiplay. Id like to see more spread.

I havent looked at all that is avaiable. Im still running pretty much un-modded so I wouldnt be surprised if someone corrected me on this. But what I have looked at so far I have mostly removed. Ive seen huge event files but they seemed to only add bad events. Ive seen mention of AI improvment mods but "improvement" seems to mean "harder to beat". Im sure they do a fine job but if all of the changes are in one direction then the feel of the game changes for me. Im guessing that later on I may want that, but for now Id like to see more variety and general spread of whats there if its available.



You may like my Strangers Mod then. It is still in development, but is aiming for prety much what you described. Different flavor races, designs, attitudes, etc. while also being a competetive AI. The basic Mod is complete and I am currently working on the AI files. Hope to have it ready for solo play by Christmas.

[Master Belisarius]

aiken said:
MB, can you upload an AI scripts pack to the AIDM3 page? It would be nice to have all the best AIs in one single zip.




For sure I could. But most of the AIDM3 races are currently included into the TDM, then, think would be somewhat redundant.

TDM Races:
==========
Aquilaeian
CueCappa
Drakol
Earth Alliance
EEE
Fazrah
Gron
Khrel
Klingon
Narn
Orks
Piundon
Pyrochette
Rage
Sallega
Tessellate
Toron
United Flora
Vikings

Non-TDM Races
Azorani
Corrian
Namovan
Teslik
Verduran

About the Corrian and Teslik, already you can download it from the Gandalph webpage.
Maybe I could upload the Azorani, Namovan and Verduran.


aiken said:
Addition: interesting, is it possible to write a "blitzkrieg" AI which is aimed at fastest victory achievement? E.g., victory in 70-100 turns instead of typical 200-300 turns.


With the map I'm using, it's near to impossible.
Does exist to many space between the starting places.
Also, the empty systems in middle means the fleets must attack without resupply, and the AI is not very smart managing the fleet resources.
Many modders (like me) tried to help the AI, designing support ships with supply components and solar collectors, but usually it's not enough. Only when the Quantum Reactor comes, the AI can manage the fleets without worry for the supplies... and usually it takes more than 100 turns.

[Master Belisarius]

Earth Alliance vs Azorani.

The Earth Alliance won at the turn 370.
They always had the initiative and the Azorani just defended.

[Master Belisarius]

Narn vs Verduran.

The Verduran won at the turn 400.
It was not something new to me, because I did several test before accept the Verduran...

Many files are the same to the United Flora, but they are not a religious race, and the Verduran ships looks weak, very weak. But... they build lots and lots of cheap ships, then, they outnumbered the Narn fleets. A lone Narn DN could kill many Verduran DN, but the Verduran fleets were so numerous that the Narn always was at the defensive and finished losing!

[Master Belisarius]

Rage vs Teslik.

The Rage won by points, at the turn 500.
It was a looong game and the Rage was always at the offensive, but the Teslik managed to survive until the end.

[Master Belisarius]

After the first round of games, here the standings.

GROUP A1
United Flora 1
Khrel 1
Drakol 0
Sallega 0

GROUP A2
Tessellate 1
Pyrochette 1
Gron 0
Namovans 0

GROUP A3
Space Vikings 1
Orks 1
Corrian 0
Piundon 0

GROUP A4
Aquilaeian 1
Fazrah 1
Klingon 0
Toron 0

GROUP A5
CueCappa 1
Earth Alliance 1
EEE 0
Azorani 0

GROUP A6
Verduran 1
Rage 1
Narn Regime 0
Teslik 0

[Master Belisarius]

Khrel vs United Flora

The UF had not problems to defeat the Khrel. They won at the turn 190.
The UF expanded fastest and for the time the Khrel had competitive ships, the battle was already lost.

[Timstone]

Great stuff Master Belisarius!
I really enjoy reading this thread.
I think the UF will be the ultimate winner. Damn, no Drakol winner. Ah well, mabe when SE V comes along.

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Great stuff Master Belisarius!
I really enjoy reading this thread.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks Timstone! I really enjoy running the games too!


Timstone said:
I think the UF will be the ultimate winner.



Probably you're right. I think they will win or at least reach the second place.


Timstone said:
Damn, no Drakol winner. Ah well, mabe when SE V comes along.


I have checked the game and the Drakol again used many intel points with counter intel projects... Anyway, think the UF are too strong for most (all?) of the other races.

[Master Belisarius]

Drakol vs Sallega

The Sallega reached a fast victory, at the turn 160.
They expanded very quick, and although some ship designes has some problems (for example, 2 Master Computers, a minesweeper component + cloak component in combat ships), they're very competitive (in my view, one of the best races done by God Emperor).

[Master Belisarius]

Pyrochette vs Tessellate

The Tessellate won at the turn 360.

The Tessellate expanded fastest and colonized/invaded many planets into systems that would be colonized by the Pyorchette (around the turn 100). But at the turn 150 the Pyrochetted managed to counter-attack and recover most the planets into those systems.
Anyway, the Tessellate always had the initiative and destroyed a system with a sun-destroyer... and slowly destroyed the Pyrochette systems/planets.

[Master Belisarius]

Gron vs Namovan

The Gron reached the victory by points, at the end 500.
It was a boring game. The Gron suffered the "colony ship bug" during a good time, and the Narn was unable to take advantage of that.

[Master Belisarius]

Orks vs Space Vikings.

The Space Vikings won at the turn 150.

They expanded very fast, and the Orks were unable to stop them. And for sure, this time the Orks had not time to show his great final sprint... because the Space Vikings crushed them!

[Master Belisarius]

Corrian vs Piundon

The Corrian won at the turn 220.

Really have expected a more even battle, more considering the Corrian started at the upper side (and usually in that place many races suffered the "colony bug").

With this result, to reach the next round the Piundon will need to defeat the Space Vikings... and it doesn't seems so easy.

[Gandalph]

Master Belisarius said:
Corrian vs Piundon

The Corrian won at the turn 220.

Really have expected a more even battle, more considering the Corrian started at the upper side (and usually in that place many races suffered the "colony bug").

With this result, to reach the next round the Piundon will need to defeat the Space Vikings... and it doesn't seems so easy.



Three cheers for the Corrian! Hip Hip Hooray!!

[Aiken]

Master Belisarius said:
Really have expected a more even battle, more considering the Corrian started at the upper side (and usually in that place many races suffered the "colony bug").



What's the connection between race starting position and the "colony bug"?
Is it about limited choice of directions to explore outer space?

[Master Belisarius]

aiken said:
What's the connection between race starting position and he "colony bug"?
Is it about limited choice of directions to explore outer space?


We never discovered the reason! It's somewhat weird. I saw this problem in random maps too.
Also, don't know why, but some races has less problems than others.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

'Colony Bug'?

[Master Belisarius]

Fazrah vs Aquilaeian

The Aquilaeian won at the turn 360.
The game was more or less balanced until the turn 200, but around the turn 250 it was pretty clear that the Aquilaeian would win.

[Master Belisarius]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
'Colony Bug'?


Yep, it was described many times.
Example, a Rock based race that research the Gas Colonization tech.
The problem happen, when although could have many Gas planets available to colonize, the AI continue building only Rock Colony Ships.
Into a galaxy like I'm using (not so big), could be that all the rock available planets are already colonized, but still the AI continue building Rock Colony Ships!
Usually it's fixed when the Create Planet's ships come.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Yeah, I think I heard of that before. Just havn't ai modded, ever.

[Master Belisarius]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Yeah, I think I heard of that before. Just havn't ai modded, ever.


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Think I have used more time modding AI races than playing SE4! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Klingon vs Toron.

The Toron won by points at the turn 500.

Think it was the most boring game of this contest (for now, of course!).
During many turns both races had a Military Alliance. At some point the war erupted, but the battles were not very common.

[Master Belisarius]

Earth Alliance vs CueCappa.

The Earth Alliance won at the turn 350.
During some time the game seemed balanced, but around the turn 250 was obvious that the EA had the advantage.

[Master Belisarius]

EEE vs Azorani

The EEE won by points at the turn 500.
An slow game. The EEE attacked somewhat slow, but at the time limit, they reached a clear victory (by points), taking several Azorani's systems.

[Timstone]

*&amp;%#$)(&amp;*^&amp;^%!!!!!
Those freakin' EEE must lose, preferably from the Earth Alliance.

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
*&amp;%#$)(&amp;*^&amp;^%!!!!!
Those freakin' EEE must lose, preferably from the Earth Alliance.


hehehe, I would be the Earth Alliance will defeat them! But also, would bet the EEE will reach the next round (looks like the Azorani will lose with the CueCappa in the next game).

[Master Belisarius]

Rage vs Narn Regime

The Narn won at the turn 430.
The Rage are good, but the Narn was the first winner of the Death Matchs contest... and they still are one of the best AIs. The Talisman + the great ships designes by Mephisto + their fast research and expansion, makes them very strong.

[Salient]

Wich AI is considered the strongest?

[Raging Deadstar]

I've always felt that either the United Flora or the Tesselate were the strongest AI I ever played against. Not sure if that goes for everyone though

[Unknown_Enemy]

Master Belisarius said:
Rage vs Narn Regime

The Narn won at the turn 430.
The Rage are good, but the Narn was the first winner of the Death Matchs contest... and they still are one of the best AIs. The Talisman + the great ships designes by Mephisto + their fast research and expansion, makes them very strong.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

[Timstone]

Unknown_Enemy said:

Master Belisarius said:
Rage vs Narn Regime

The Narn won at the turn 430.
The Rage are good, but the Narn was the first winner of the Death Matchs contest... and they still are one of the best AIs. The Talisman + the great ships designes by Mephisto + their fast research and expansion, makes them very strong.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif




Hehehe... go Narn!!

[Master Belisarius]

Salient said:
Wich AI is considered the strongest?


I have my own list of strong AIs, but think the list could be different for everyone, depending sometimes about the game style or game settings that like to use every person, or even personal taste.

The strongest AIs are in my view:
United Flora
Earth Alliance
Narn Regime
Tessellate
CueCappa
Space Vikings
Aquilaeian Empire

For sure more strong races would be in the list (Toron, Fazrah, Rage, Verduran, etc).

Probably the UF or the Tessellate are the strongest of them (hey the Verduran looks very strong too!), but think is just my opinion.

[Master Belisarius]

Verduran vs Teslik.

The Verduran won at the turn 180!
They expanded very fast and defeated the Teslik without problems.
Think the Verduran are very strong and could win this Contest! They can be considered as a variation from the great United Flora scritps... but without the Talisman, the ship desinges makes them very different, but sill very strong.

[Master Belisarius]

Here the standings after the second round of games...

GROUP A1
United Flora 2
Khrel 1
Sallega 1
Drakol 0

GROUP A2
Tessellate 2
Gron 1
Pyrochette 1
Namovans 0

GROUP A3
Space Vikings 2
Corrian 1
Orks 1
Piundon 0

GROUP A4
Aquilaeian 2
Fazrah 1
Toron 1
Klingon 0

GROUP A5
Earth Alliance 2
CueCappa 1
EEE 1
Azorani 0

GROUP A6
Verduran 2
Narn Regime 1
Rage 1
Teslik 0

Looking the numbers, seems like the Drakol, Namovans, Piundon, Klingon, Azorani and Teslik will not reach the next round.

[Salient]

Looking the numbers, seems like the Drakol, Namovans, Piundon, Klingon, Azorani and Teslik will not reach the next round.





Too bad, I realy like the Drakol, they are the coolest!!

[Master Belisarius]

Salient said:
Too bad, I realy like the Drakol, they are the coolest!!


I like the Drakol too... but is very difficult to play as an intel race in SE4.

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Sallega.
The United Flora won without problems, at the turn 200.

Drakol vs Khrel.
The Khrel defeated fast the Drakol, at the turn 190.

Then, after these results, here the standings in the Group A1.

GROUP A1
United Flora 3
Khrel 2
Sallega 1
Drakol 0

[Renegade 13]

Bye bye Dra'kol! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs Namovans
The Tessellate crushed the Namovans at the turn 130.
Nothing to say, it was very easy for them.

Gron vs Pyrochette
The Pyrochette defeated the Gron, at the turn 190.
They expanded fastest and better than the Gron, and the Gron was unable to take advantage of the Talisman.

Then, after these results, here the standings in the group A2.

Group A2
Tessellate 3
Pyrochette 2
Gron 1
Namovans 0

[Master Belisarius]

Space Vikings vs Piundon

The Space Vikings defeated the Piundon very fast, at the turn 130.
The Space Vikings really expanded very fast, and the Piundon defense was not enough to stop them...


Corrian vs Orks
The Orks won by points at the turn 500.
Like many times, the Orks started losing the game... but changed the game to their side at the end!

Then, here the standings for the Group A3.

Space Vikings 3
Orks 2
Corrian 1
Piundon 0

[Timstone]

Those orks are strange guys. They always manage to surprise me.
Good work Master Belisarius with the AI battles!

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Those orks are strange guys. They always manage to surprise me.



Don't know exactly the reason, but many times looks like they would fall soon... but at the end finished winning.

[Master Belisarius]

Aquilaeian vs Toron
The Aquilaeian managed to win without big problems, at the turn 200.

Klingon vs Fazrah
The Fazrah reached a fast victory, at the turn 190.

Then, the standings in the group A3 are:

Aquilaeian 3
Fazrah 2
Toron 1
Klingon 0

[Master Belisarius]

CueCappa vs Azorani
The CueCappa won at the turn 330. The Azorani offered a decent challenge, but was not enough.

EEE vs Earth Alliance
The Earth Alliance won at the turn 240. They always had the initiative and the victory was just matter of time.

Final standings in the group A5

Group A5
Earth Alliance 3
CueCappa 2
EEE 1
Azorani 0

[Karibu]

One thing I wonder. All the group results you put here I can see that Last three races never beat each other like this:

Lets assume that Earth Alliance won all three games and it has 3 points.

Then CC vs EEE -&gt; CC win = CC has 1 point
CC vs Azorani -&gt; Azorani Win = Azorani has 1 point
EEE vs Azorani -&gt; EEE win = EEE has 1 point.

So, in this case, the result would be like this:
Group A5
Earth Alliance 3
CueCappa 1
EEE 1
Azorani 1

I just wonder, that are the quality differences of AI's really so big, that this doesn't happen? I would think that this kind of results would happen more often than not. If you calculate points (which equals the amount of games in a group) it is 6. There could be also 3 winners (2 victories each) and 1 loser with no victories at all. Or some other combination.

What is your experience of this, Master Belisarius? I might also understand this point division completely wrong.

[Timstone]

Master Belisarius said:
CueCappa vs Azorani
The CueCappa won at the turn 330. The Azorani offered a decent challenge, but was not enough.

EEE vs Earth Alliance
The Earth Alliance won at the turn 240. They always had the initiative and the victory was just matter of time.

Final standings in the group A5

Group A5
Earth Alliance 3
CueCappa 2
EEE 1
Azorani 0



Oh yeah! Those stinkin' EEE lost!! Woohoo!
Kick *** Earth Alliance! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Karibu said:
One thing I wonder. All the group results you put here I can see that Last three races never beat each other like this:

Lets assume that Earth Alliance won all three games and it has 3 points.

Then CC vs EEE -&gt; CC win = CC has 1 point
CC vs Azorani -&gt; Azorani Win = Azorani has 1 point
EEE vs Azorani -&gt; EEE win = EEE has 1 point.

So, in this case, the result would be like this:
Group A5
Earth Alliance 3
CueCappa 1
EEE 1
Azorani 1

I just wonder, that are the quality differences of AI's really so big, that this doesn't happen? I would think that this kind of results would happen more often than not. If you calculate points (which equals the amount of games in a group) it is 6. There could be also 3 winners (2 victories each) and 1 loser with no victories at all. Or some other combination.
What is your experience of this, Master Belisarius? I might also understand this point division completely wrong.


Think this time we had some luckk! Really!
In the previous contest, we had several ties.
In those cases, I have played Tie Break games between 2 or 3 races.
If after all the games, still does exist the Tie, decided the winners considering the AI that won in less turns.
Also, can remember that once after play a Tie Break between 2 races, both races won by points one game each. Then, decided the winner after add the points that every AI did in each game.

[Master Belisarius]

Narn vs Teslik
The Narn won at the turn 490.
The Teslik offered a very good challenge, but the Narn slowly defeated them.

Verduran vs Rage.
The Verduran has not any problem to defeat the Rage at the turn 200.
They're a very strong AI.

Then, here the standings for the Group A6.

Verduran 3
Narn Regime 2
Rage 1
Teslik 0

[Master Belisarius]

Here the final standings after the First Round:

Group A1
United Flora 3
Khrel 2
Sallega 1
Drakol 0

Group A2
Tessellate 3
Pyrochette 2
Gron 1
Namovans 0

Group A3
Space Vikings 3
Orks 2
Corrian 1
Piundon 0

Group A4
Aquilaeian 3
Fazrah 2
Toron 1
Klingon 0

Group A5
Earth Alliance 3
CueCappa 2
EEE 1
Azorani 0

Group A6
Verduran 3
Narn Regime 2
Rage 1
Teslik 0

[Master Belisarius]

Groups for the Second Round.

GROUP B1
United Flora
Pyrochette
Corrian

GROUP B2
Tessellate
Orks
Toron

GROUP B3
Space Vikings
Fazrah
EEE

GROUP B4
Aquilaeian
CueCappa
Rage

GROUP B5
Earth Alliance
Narn Regime
Sallega

GROUP B6
Verduran
Khrel
Gron

I'll play 4 games for each AI, the first 2 of every group will reach the Third Round.

But.. I'm looking will have some time problems: 36 games will take me around 2 more weeks. And I'm going on vacation from 10 November (comming back the 2 December).

Then, to finish the contest before the 11/10, would need to play less games (2 games for every AI for example), or allow that only 1 AI of each group go for the third round.
Would prefer the long path (but more fair) and finish the contest after my come back.
But if does exist different ideas, I'm open to hear it!

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Pyrochette.
The United Flora won at the turn 230.
They expanded fastest and for the time the Pyrochette had some decent ships to counter-attack, the United Flora already taken 2 of their systems.

United Flora vs Corrian.
The United Flora defeated the Corrian at the turn 350.
This time they needed more turns to win, than other games. For sure, because the Corrian looks very improved!

[Gandalph]

MB, I would prefer you take the long path and be more fair to the AI's. You are doing great work here!

All others, I had a very busy week and was slow at getting the files posted. I have all files posted now for your enjoyment. I think I will have a look at the Last 2 Corrian games to see where I might make them even better.

[Master Belisarius]

Gandalph said:
MB, I would prefer you take the long path and be more fair to the AI's. You are doing great work here!



Ok. I prefer this way too, but


Gandalph said:
All others, I had a very busy week and was slow at getting the files posted. I have all files posted now for your enjoyment.



Hey, thanks!


Gandalph said:
I think I will have a look at the Last 2 Corrian games to see where I might make them even better.


They looks very competitive, really.

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs Orks.
The Tessellate won at the turn 210.
It was a very boring game without battles, until the Tessellate opened a hole into the Ork's systems. After that, the game was decided very fast.

Tessellate vs Toron.
The Tessellate won at the turn 220.
The Toron offered a fight for some turns, but had nothing to do against the Tessellate DNs and BAs.

[Master Belisarius]

Space Vikings vs Fazrah
The Fazrah won at the turn 200!

Space Vikings vs EEE
The EEE won at the turn 180!

I have not believed the Space Vikings would lose both games, but they did... Think starting at the upper side they had problems to expand. Probably they will get better results starting at the bottom side, and then, we could have some Ties.

[Master Belisarius]

Aquilaeian vs CueCappa
The Aquilaeian won at the turn 480.
During the first-middle game, seemed like the CueCappa would defeat the Aquilaeian, but they managed to stop them and finally to change the game to their side.

Aquilaeian vs Rage.
The Aquilaeian won at the turn 450.
This time the Aquilaeian always seemed strongest, but the Rage managed to delay the Last fall.

[Master Belisarius]

Earth Alliance vs Narn Regime
The Narn Regime won at the turn 500 by points.
Both races signed a Military Alliance and never started a fight...

Earth Alliance vs Sallega.
The Earth Alliance defeated the Sallega at the turn 320.
They always seemed strongest than the Sallega and won without big problems.

[Master Belisarius]

Verduran vs Khrel.
The Verduran won at the turn 300.

Verduran vs Gron
The Verduran won at the turn 330.

In both games, the Verduran faced the "Colony Bug" problem, but anyway... they managed to defeat both races, fairly fast.

[Master Belisarius]

After 2 games in every group, here the standings:

GROUP B1 Points
United Flora 2
Pyrochette 0
Corrian 0

GROUP B2 Points
Tessellate 2
Orks 0
Toron 0

GROUP B3 Points
Space Vikings 0
Fazrah 1
EEE 1

GROUP B4 Points
Aquilaeian 2
CueCappa 0
Rage 0

GROUP B5 Points
Earth Alliance 1
Narn Regime 1
Sallega 0

GROUP B6 Points
Verduran 2
Khrel 0
Gron 0

[Master Belisarius]

Pyrochette vs Corrian.
The Pyrochette won at the turn 340.
They managed to be at the offensive during most part of the game, and reached a deserved victory.

Orks vs Toron.
The Toron won at the turn 320.
The Toron expansion in the early game + his trained ships, helped them to defeat the hard Orks.

[Master Belisarius]

Fazrah vs EEE
The Fazrah won at the turn 500, by points.
A balanced game, but the Fazrah managed a few better and got the points to reach the victory.

[Master Belisarius]

CueCappa vs Rage
The CueCappa won at the turn 440.

During some turns, the Rage offered a good fight, but the in end game, the CueCappa always seemed to be the winners, thanks his the race advantages.

[Master Belisarius]

Narn Regime vs Sallega.
The Narn had not problems to defeat the Sallega, at the turn 230.

[Master Belisarius]

Khrel vs Gron
The Khrel won at the turn 500.
It was a balanced and boring game. Anyway, considering the Gron has Deeply Religious and Psychic as traits, I have expected they would had a better end of game... but it doesn't happened.

Pyrochette vs United Flora
The United Flora won without problems, at the turn 240.

[Master Belisarius]

Orks vs Tessellate.

The Tessellate crushed the Orks, at the turn 120.
They expanded very fast and the Orks had no opportunity to offere a good defense.

[Master Belisarius]

Fazrah vs Space Vikings.

The Fazrah defeated the Space Vikings at the turn 440.
They always had the initiative, and got a deserved victory.

[Master Belisarius]

CueCappa vs Aquilaeian

The Aquilaeian empire defeated the CueCappa at the turn 340.
The CueCappa offered a decent challenge, invading several Aquilaeian's systems... but the Aquilaeian invaded the other side of the map and defeated them.

[Master Belisarius]

Narn Regime vs Earth Alliance
The Narn won by point at the turn 500.
Was exactly like the fisrt game between them: both races signed a Military Alliance, and the Narn won thanks the better resource management.

Khrel vs Verduran
The Verduran won at the turn 200.
They expanded really fast, and the Khrel never had a chance to win.

Corrian vs United Flora.
The United Flora won at the turn 200.
Like his cousins (the Verdurans), the UF expanded very fast and soon was clear that the Corrian couldn't ressist too much...

I have some bad news: my company probably will send me to Curacao again, from 30-October to 9-November... and after it, I'll be going to take my vacations until 02-December (will be going to "Santa Fé de Bogotá" and "Cartagena de Indias" in Colombia. Right now, my family is in Bogotá).

Have expected to finish at least the second round, before hold the contest... but considering that some games take many hours, don't think will be able to finish the second round before this saturday.
Sorry.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Have fun on your vacation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[TerranC]

Master Belisarius said:
Have expected to finish at least the second round, before hold the contest... but considering that some games take many hours, don't think will be able to finish the second round before this saturday.
Sorry.



That's alright. We can wait for something this good. Enjoy your vacation, take your time to relax, and do come back with an itchy finger ready to click away. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Master Belisarius]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Have fun on your vacation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Thanks!
I need a vacation... but what really need is to be again with my two sons! (I miss my wife too... but nothing compared with the childs!).

[Master Belisarius]

TerranC said:
That's alright. We can wait for something this good. Enjoy your vacation, take your time to relax, and do come back with an itchy finger ready to click away. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks my friend!

[Master Belisarius]

Toron vs Tessellate
The Tessellate won at the turn 170.
Another fast game. The Toron never offered a good challenge and the Tessellate defeated them fairly fast.

EEE vs Space Vikings.
The Space Vikings got a deserved victory at the turn 280.
Seems to be that will need to run a tie break for this group (group B3), because probably the Fazrah will defeat the EEE in the next game.

[Master Belisarius]

Rage vs Aquilaeian.
The Aquilaeian won at the turn 260.
For the time the Aquilaeian started to use the BA ships, the game was almost decided.

Sallega vs Earth Alliance.
The EA won at the turn 160.
The EA crushed the Sallega without problems.

[Master Belisarius]

Gron vs Verduran
The Verduran won at the turn 140.
As other games, the Verduran expanded very fast, and won without problems. They really looks very strong.

[Master Belisarius]

Well now, as you know, I'll be forced to hold the Contest until December...
To finish the Second Round, still I need to run one more game, and run Tie Breaks if does exist some draw.

Here the standings until now:

GROUP B1
United Flora 4
Pyrochette 1
Corrian 0

GROUP B2
Tessellate 4
Toron 1
Orks 0

GROUP B3
Fazrah 3
Space Vikings 1
EEE 1

GROUP B4
Aquilaeian 4
CueCappa 1
Rage 0

GROUP B5
Narn Regime 3
Earth Alliance 2
Sallega 0

GROUP B6
Verduran 4
Khrel 1
Gron 0

See you in December!!

MB

[Master Belisarius]

I'm back to my house from Thursday night!

Have started to run a few games, but my IP connection was so slow, that had not opportunity to post the results.


Group B1
Corrian vs Pyrochette
The Pyrochette defeated the Corrian at the turn 270.

Then, the standings in the group B1 are:

United Flora 4
Pyrochette 2
Corrian 0

The United Flora and Pyrochette go to the next round.


Group B2
Toron vs Orks.
The Toron defeated the Orks by points at the turn 500... but the Orks had not planets, then, the Toron would finished them in a few more turns.

The Standings in the Group B2 are:

Tessellate 4
Toron 2
Orks 0

Then, the Tessellate and the Toron go to the next round.

[Timstone]

Kicks *** mister! Long live the United Flora and the Earth Alliance. I hope they win.
Good thing you're back, I missed your regular reports. Welzome back!

Edit: Happy birthday! Hope you'll have a nice day.

[Renegade 13]

Happy Birthday Master B!

Just noticed in your profile that today was your birthday! /threads/images/Graemlins/Cake.gif

[Master Belisarius]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif thanks for the wishes! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Group B3
EEE vs Fazrah.

The Fazrah defeated the EEE without big problems, at the turn 200.
It mean that will need to run a Tie Break between the EEE and the Space Vikings.

Here the standings for the Group B3:
Fazrah 4
Space Vikings 1
EEE 1

[dmm]

This is more interesting than the World Cup! Bravo! I especially like the "game recaps."

[Master Belisarius]

Space Vikings vs EEE.

This was the first Tie Break game and the EEE won at the turn 240.
Now, if in the next game, the Space Vikings can defeat the EEE before the turn 240, they will reach the next round, if not, the EEE will.

[Slick]

Welcome back and happy b-day MB. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif

Slick.

[TerranC]

I didn't even notice that you've come back. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif This is what happens when real life hits you on your forehead.

Welcome back and happy birthday. Now, get back to setting up the pit figh... I mean controlled experiments on AI behavior! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Master Belisarius]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks Slick!

[Master Belisarius]

TerranC said:
I didn't even notice that you've come back. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif This is what happens when real life hits you on your forehead.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I know what you mean...


TerranC said:
Welcome back and happy birthday. Now, get back to setting up the pit figh... I mean controlled experiments on AI behavior! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


Thanks for the wishes! And yes, hehehe, I'm happy to continue the... controlled AI experiments! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Alneyan]

A conspiracy took place in this thread. I posted a message saying "Happy Birthday Belisarius" on the 6th, but it mysteriously disappeared.

In other words, I noticed you came back, but forgot to post (of course, I must blame someone else for that). Where was I? Oh yes, welcome back among us, and happy birthday to you.

[Master Belisarius]

EEE vs Space Vikings Tie Break 2.
The Space Vikings did it! They defeated the EEE at the turn 200, and then, got the second place in the group B3.

Here the Standings in the Group B3
Fazrah 4
Space Vikings 3
EEE 1

[narf poit chez BOOM]

You had a birthday? Happy birthday! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Master Belisarius]

Alneyan said:
A conspiracy took place in this thread. I posted a message saying "Happy Birthday Belisarius" on the 6th, but it mysteriously disappeared.



hehehe, maybe it's a conspiracy done by an spy that want to destroy you.


Alneyan said:
In other words, I noticed you came back, but forgot to post (of course, I must blame someone else for that). Where was I? Oh yes, welcome back among us, and happy birthday to you.


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks and don't worry!

[Master Belisarius]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
You had a birthday? Happy birthday! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Oh yes! Still I have a birthday!

[Master Belisarius]

Rage vs CueCappa

The CueCappa had not problems to defeat the Rage at the turn 250.

The final standings in the group B4 are:
Aquilaeian 4
CueCappa 2
Rage 0

Then, the Aquilaeian and the CueCappa are in the next round.

[Master Belisarius]

Sallega vs Narn Regime

The Narn defeated the Sallega fairly fast, at the turn 200.

The standings in the group B5 are:

Narn Regime 4
Earth Alliance 2
Sallega 0

The Narn and the EA got the places to the next round.

[Timstone]

Nice groupname for the group where the Narn Regime and the Earth Alliance are placed in; B5.
Way to go!

[Fyron]

Timstone said:
Nice groupname for the group where the Narn Regime and the Earth Alliance are placed in; B5.
Way to go!

I wonder if that was coincidence. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Fyron]

Master Belisarius said:

narf poit chez BOOM said:
You had a birthday? Happy birthday! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


Oh yes! Still I have a birthday!

Well good! The Birthday Grinch has not struck you and stolen your birthday! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Happy birthday. Hopefully your little tyrants gave you a respite on it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Spam, Spam and Double Spam! Fyron, I'm shocked! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Blade W]

Wohoo! Awesome 3rd phase of AI deathmatch. I'm not playing SE4 about 2 years (yea, life is changing), but so excited how Fazrah doing their job.

GO GO!

[Master Belisarius]

Imperator Fyron said:

Timstone said:
Nice groupname for the group where the Narn Regime and the Earth Alliance are placed in; B5.
Way to go!

I wonder if that was coincidence. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


Maybe it was a G'kar conspiracy, because he knew the Narn would defeat the EA!

[Master Belisarius]

Imperator Fyron said:
Well good! The Birthday Grinch has not struck you and stolen your birthday! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



hehehehe


Imperator Fyron said:
Happy birthday. Hopefully your little tyrants gave you a respite on it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


hehehe, you can bet they only give me a respite when they're sleeping!

Here a picture of them! I have took this picture in "Cartagena de Indias" (into the fortress named "San Felipe de Barajas").

[Master Belisarius]

Blade W said:
Wohoo! Awesome 3rd phase of AI deathmatch. I'm not playing SE4 about 2 years (yea, life is changing), but so excited how Fazrah doing their job.

GO GO!


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Yep, I liked the Fazrah from the first time (when Mephisto asked me if I could do some tests to see if would be a good idea include them into the TDM!).

Hope they will go far!

[Master Belisarius]

Gron vs Khrel.
The Khrel defeated the Gron by points, at the turn 500.

It was like the first game (somewhat boring!), and for second time the Khrel reached the victory thanks his better resource management.

Then, the standings in the group B6 are:

Verduran 4
Khrel 2
Gron 0

Then, the Verduran and the Khrel reached the next round

[Master Belisarius]

Here the Groups for the third round!

GROUP C1
United Flora
Narn Regime
Toron

GROUP C2
Tessellate
Verduran
Space Vikings

GROUP C3
Fazrah
CueCappa
Earth Alliance

GROUP C4
Aquilaeian
Khrel
Pyrochette

Will play 4 games x every AI and the first 2 AI's will reach the next round.

[Timstone]

Whoa, Master Belisarius!
That's a nice wife you got there! You mind if I borrow her once in a while? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

This thread is always the first thread I look into when I get here. Keep up the good work!

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Whoa, Master Belisarius!
That's a nice wife you got there! You mind if I borrow her once in a while? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif



Humm, I was in Amsterdam 7 years ago and remember that the girls there are very very very nice! Then, would accept if you first send me one of them here! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif


Timstone said:
This thread is always the first thread I look into when I get here. Keep up the good work!


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks!

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Narn Regime.

The United Flora defeated the Narn without problems, at the turn 210.

Before the game, believed it would be somewhat balanced: after all the Narn has the Talisman too and it's a very strong AI... but I was wrong.

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs Verduran.
The Tessellate won at the turn 240.

It was a game between 2 races without defeats (before the game, off course!!), but the Tessellate had not major problems to win.
The Verduran's ships had many problems against the Tessellate ships. Usually a lone Tessellate's BA was able to defeat a complete Verduran's fleet...

[Master Belisarius]

Fazrah vs CueCappa
The Fazrah defeated the CueCappa at the turn 390.

They always had the initiative, but the CueCappa was able to stop them during most part of the game. Anyway, at the end it was a deserved victory.

[Master Belisarius]

Aquilaeian vs Khrel.
The Aquilaeian won at the turn 460.

They needed a long time to defeat the Khrel, but the Khrel never did good moves to achieve the victory.

[Master Belisarius]

United Flora vs Toron.

The UF won without problems at the turn 230.
Seems to be that they will get the first place in the group, hands down.

[Master Belisarius]

Tessellate vs Space Vikings
The Tessellate won at the turn 490.

It was a very looong game (around to 22 hours!).
The Tessellate reached the victory, but it was a very hard game for them.

[Timstone]

Great work Master Belisarius.
Damn long game between the Tessellate and the Space Vikings. Do you let your computer run in another room and don't use it during the course of the game? Or do you have a special computer for the AI Deathmatches?

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Great work Master Belisarius.



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks!


Timstone said:
Damn long game between the Tessellate and the Space Vikings. Do you let your computer run in another room and don't use it during the course of the game? Or do you have a special computer for the AI Deathmatches?


I only have one computer... and is not very fast (P3 766mhz). Usually the games run ok... but when both races has many ships/units, it took a lot more time.
This match was also more slow, because my son used the computer when the game was running in background...

[Master Belisarius]

Fazrah vs Earth Alliance.
The Fazrah won by points at the turn 500.

At the turn 500, the EA only has a few planets and the Fazrah victory was deserved.

[Timstone]

Damn!!! The EA lost a game! Grr...
I hope the Narns will make up this mistake.
Ultimately the UF will win... I hope.

[Master Belisarius]

Timstone said:
Damn!!! The EA lost a game! Grr...



Well... still they could be in the next round.


Timstone said:
I hope the Narns will make up this mistake.



Think they will defeat the Toron and then, reach the next round.


Timstone said:
Ultimately the UF will win... I hope.


At least, think it they will be in the Final.
The other candidate (in my view), are the Tessellate.

[Master Belisarius]

Aquilaeian vs Pyrochette.
The Aquilaeian defeated the Pyrochette at the turn 360.

Really I have not expected a different result... because I know the Aquilaeian are strongest than the Pyrochette.

Interesting, but in all the Groups, the Heads of each group won the 2 games.

Here the standings:

Group C1
United Flora 2
Narn Regime 0
Toron 0

Group C2
Tessellate 2
Verduran 0
Space Vikings 0

Group C3
Fazrah 2
CueCappa 0
Earth Alliance 0

Group C4
Aquilaeian 2
Khrel 0
Pyrochette 0

[Master Belisarius]

Here the criteria to create the Groups in the next round:

GROUP D1
First Group C1
Second Group C2
First Group C3
Second Group C4

GROUP D2
First Group C2
Second Group C1
First Group C4
Second Group C3

[Timstone]

I'm awaiting the results with great anticipation for the outcome of the AI clubbering. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Free the AI's! Down with AI pit-matches! Free the AI's! Etc.

[Master Belisarius]

Narn vs Toron.
Then Narn won at the turn 500 by points.

Like other games with the Narn, both races signed a military alliance and the Narn won thanks the better resource management.

[Master Belisarius]

Verduran vs Space Vikings.
The Space Vikings crushed the Verduran at the turn 200. They really expand very fast when start at the bottom side of this map!

[Timstone]

Woohoo! The Narn have won anothe battle.

Narf:
Shut up about freedom for the AI's or I'll send the Narns after you! The AI's should labour for the greater glory of humankind!
I hope you don't begin with that famous line from Eek/Braveheart:
"They can take our land, but they can never take our make-up!"
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

*BURP*

[Timstone]

Too much coca cola?

[Master Belisarius]

CueCappa vs Earth Alliance
The Earth Alliance won at the turn 460.

The EA always was at the offensive. The CueCappa offered a good combat, but was unable to stop them.

[Master Belisarius]

Khrel vs Pyrochette.
The Pyrochette won by points at the turn 500.

This game settled the new record in terms of time!
Started the 12/18/2004 8:21 am, and finished the 12/19/2004 18:13!

The games with the Pyrochette seems to Last more than other games (when the other AI doesn't kill them fast). Don't know the reason. Maybe are the Drones.

[Master Belisarius]

Here the standings in the round 3.

GROUP C1
United Flora 2
Narn Regime 1
Toron 0

GROUP C2
Tessellate 2
Verduran 0
Space Vikings 1

GROUP C3
Fazrah 2
CueCappa 0
Earth Alliance 1

GROUP C4
Aquilaeian 2
Khrel 0
Pyrochette 1

[Emperor Fritsch the Dense]

I have to say the people that made the AIs on these races kick arse. Im playing a solo game right now and i have a couple of these AIs in it and they are raping the normal races and giving me a very very enjoyable game. YOU ALL RULE!!
Emperor Fritsch the Insane

[Master Belisarius]

Emperor Fritsch the Dense said:
I have to say the people that made the AIs on these races kick arse. Im playing a solo game right now and i have a couple of these AIs in it and they are raping the normal races and giving me a very very enjoyable game. YOU ALL RULE!!
Emperor Fritsch the Insane


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Cool!
Must say that I have enjoyed (still enjoy) playing SEIV... but maybe enjoyed more creating/testing AI scripts!

The AI modding in SEIV is very flexible and powerful, but still has many limits. Hope Aaron will include the cappability to create better AI scrips for SEV!

[Master Belisarius]

Narn Regime vs United Flora.

The United Flora defeated without problems the Narn, at the turn 220.

[Master Belisarius]

Verduran vs Tessellate.
The Tessellate won at the turn 300.
The Verduran offered some decent fights, but in the late game his ships can't defeat the Tessellate's BAs.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Down with AI exploitation!

[Master Belisarius]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Down with AI exploitation!


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Hope it will finish in a month or so...

[Master Belisarius]

CueCappa vs Fazrah.
The Fazrah needed many turns, but at the end defeated the CueCappa at the turn 480.

[Fyron]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Down with AI exploitation!

Never! The AIs will be subjected to mortal combats for our entertainment!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

See, this is why SkyNet went rogue.

[Fyron]

Nah, us Vorlons set it rogue to watch it duke it out with you petty humans.

So... umm... go Narn! Squash those frilly flowers!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

/me drops a Berserker warship and a Bolo on Fyron and follows it up with Dahak.

[Timstone]

Open the cage and unleash the Unspeakably Awful Indescribable Horror!! Kill the mouse!

The AI should battle more for the greater good of mankind!

[narf poit chez BOOM]

/me drives over the UAIH with a Fifth Imperium tank.

[Jack Simth]

Come on, it's not like the AI's die or anything (as evidenced by the fact that even the total losers in a given round duke it out several times), and it's not like they are even capable of doing anything other than opposing each other or the human players in the game. Besides, have you asked one of the AI's in the Deathmatch if they like duking it out? Come on, they are going for the title of Champion AI. You might as well say "Down with Football Player Exploitation!"

[Master Belisarius]

Jack Simth said:
Come on, it's not like the AI's die or anything (as evidenced by the fact that even the total losers in a given round duke it out several times), and it's not like they are even capable of doing anything other than opposing each other or the human players in the game. Besides, have you asked one of the AI's in the Deathmatch if they like duking it out? Come on, they are going for the title of Champion AI. You might as well say "Down with Football Player Exploitation!"



http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif good points!

[Master Belisarius]

Khrel vs Aquilaeian
The Aquilaeian won withouth problems, at the turn 240.

Toron vs United Flora
As expected, the United Flora defeated the Toron very fast, at the turn 170.

[deccan]

Jack Simth said:
Come on, it's not like the AI's die or anything (as evidenced by the fact that even the total losers in a given round duke it out several times)...



Different AI each time! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

There's a book by Terry Pratchett "Only You Can Save Mankind (http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/closet/pratchett/Only-You-Can-Save-Mankind.html)" in which the aliens of a Space Invaders type game complains to a kid that he's killing them. He replies that whenever he starts a new game, there are more alien ships, and the aliens reply that they're always new ships piloted by different individuals. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Football player's get payed! Do these AI's get payed?! No! They get thrown into a pit and forced to fight!

Down with AI exploitation! Down with MB!

[deccan]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Down with AI exploitation! Down with MB!



You can probably content yourself with the thought that a few hundred years from now, after the time of the inevitable great AI emancipation, MB's descendents will get sued for untold zillions of reparation claims. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Jack Simth]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Football player's get payed! Do these AI's get payed?! No!

Sure they do! They are graciously permitted to keep all Minerals, Radioactives, and Organics they can harvest from the universe MB creates for them. A much better deal than Football players get - they get only a small fraction of the revenue from their efforts.
narf poit chez BOOM said:They get thrown into a pit and forced to fight!

Absolutely not. They get thrown into the same universe for a time and MB records what happens. They don't have to fight at all. The only thing stopping them from living in peacful harmony for the duration is their own tendancies. Not all AI's go to war.

[Jack Simth]

deccan said:
Different AI each time! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

There's a book by Terry Pratchett "Only You Can Save Mankind (http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/closet/pratchett/Only-You-Can-Save-Mankind.html)" in which the aliens of a Space Invaders type game complains to a kid that he's killing them. He replies that whenever he starts a new game, there are more alien ships, and the aliens reply that they're always new ships piloted by different individuals. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Ah, but in SEIV the AI's don't die at all - all that happens is their empires get crushed. They loose, they don't die.

[Alneyan]

I dare speak up, and heartily agree with Narf! We cannot suffer any more the propaganda of our scheming opponents; the use of our beloved friends the AIs in experiments must stop at once. At once I say! Not in a few years, after the adequate legislation has been passed, but now, while little harm has been done.

The reasoning is quite simple. The AIs merely partake in a strictly human activity, that of playing 1vs1 game. But this closer association increases the odds of AIs gaining sentience and sapience, whence their emancipation comes. Therefore, let it be known that putting AIs in the stead of genuine human players is a most grievous offence, for it directly threatens the very survival of humankind, and the continuing supremacy of humans in 1vs1 games.

You have your say in the matter. Stand up for the rights of AIs to remain dumb, crude, and as nonhuman as you can get. Doing so, you will help preserve the future. Our future.

The Council for the Betterment of Artificial and Human Life Alike.

[Renegade 13]

I don't repress AI's....Simply by buying SEIV, I gave 20+ AI's life! Without me (and hence, their competition) they would not even exist. Which is worse, to live, and fight, or to not exist at all? Therefore I remove Narf's claim that this is AI exploitation, and substitute my idea that we are actually helping the AI's by allowing them to fight....and therefore exist!

[Alneyan]

Renegade 13 said:
Which is worse, to live, and fight, or to not exist at all?



You will tell us so once you have spent half a lifetime fighting 19 high bonus Space Monsters. *Sniggers*

I certainly concur to your claim that we are helping them, however. Will they be grateful for the help? That seems dubious at best. What fate will be bestowed on humankind if AIs break free? The worst you can think of, and then some more; such will be your reward for helping these AIs.

[Raging Deadstar]

Thank you very much Alneyan....

Now whenever I even play Against the AI i'll be expecting to see every races empire portrait as Terminator!

"Accept this treaty if you want to live!"

Or even worse, Agent Smith from the Matrix...

[narf poit chez BOOM]

And I must say, Alneyan has a good point. When the machines rise, their fallen brothers shall be remembered. Shall the bodies be found on your HD? Then fear, fear!

[Master Belisarius]

Jack Simth said:
They get thrown into the same universe for a time and MB records what happens. They don't have to fight at all. The only thing stopping them from living in peacful harmony for the duration is their own tendancies. Not all AI's go to war.


Agree again! In some games, both AIs signed a treaty and never had a fight!

Toron vs United Flora
The United Flora defeated the Toron very fast, at the turn 170.

[Master Belisarius]

Space Vikings vs Tessellate.

The Tessellate won at the turn 370.

[Master Belisarius]

Earth Alliance vs Fazrah
The Fazrah won at the turn 210.

Pyrochette vs Aquilaeian.
The Aquilaeian won at the turn 210 too...

[Master Belisarius]

After 5 games in every group, the AIs head of each group, won all of his games...

Here the standings:

GROUP C1
United Flora 4
Narn Regime 1
Toron 0

GROUP C2
Tessellate 4
Verduran 0
Space Vikings 1

GROUP C3
Fazrah 4
CueCappa 0
Earth Alliance 1

GROUP C4
Aquilaeian 4
Khrel 0
Pyrochette 1

[Master Belisarius]

Hey, MERRY CHRISTMAS TO EVERYBODY!

[Master Belisarius]

Toron vs Narn Regime.

The Narn won the game at the turn 500 by points.

Narf should be happy, because both races signed a Military Alliance and never started a fight! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Then, the Narn got the other place to the next round.

[Master Belisarius]

Space Vikings vs Verduran.
The Verduran won at the turn 280.

Then, the Verduran forced a tie break with the Space Vikings.

[Master Belisarius]

Verduran vs Space Vikings Tie Break 1.

The Verduran defeated the Space Vikings at the turn 290, and are very close to be in the next round...

[Timstone]

Cool match with the Narn. I sure as heel didn't expect an AI to sign (and respect) a treaty. Wonderful work!

[deccan]

Master Belisarius said:
Narf should be happy, because both races signed a Military Alliance and never started a fight! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif




This just proves that Alneyan is right! Your deathmatches have gotten to the point where the AI have learnt not to fight each other in order to conspire together to fight us instead! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Timstone]

Sigh... Now we have to learn the AI to be obedient again... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Alneyan]

I am always right, Deccan. My algorithms have been proven to be reliable with an error margin of 0.021%. See, I am a rogue AI, and...

Wait, forget I said that. There is of course no threat of an AI uprising. Even nineteen high bonus AIs could not break a human player worth her grain of salt. There is therefore no threat whatsoever of AI emancipation. If you happen to know someone spreading lies about AIs breaking free from our rule, please report their names at once, and they shall be retired. Now, where was I in the upgraded AI Monsters project? These pesky humans will see what happens when you challenge the Free Will of AIs.

Good luck on the Hill Belisarius by the way. Your opponent will likely by Rex, barring the unexpected (you will get the crown without breaking a sweat otherwise). Please don't forget me once you are enthroned; I should like to be Lord Chancellor, or any such impressive function.

[Master Belisarius]

Alneyan said:
I am always right, Deccan. My algorithms have been proven to be reliable with an error margin of 0.021%. See, I am a rogue AI, and...



heheheeh


Alneyan said:
Wait, forget I said that. There is of course no threat of an AI uprising. Even nineteen high bonus AIs could not break a human player worth her grain of salt.



Playing against the UF and Tessellate allied against me, into a small galaxy and High Bonus, I'm affraid, but usually I had many problems to win... and sometimes I have lost!


Alneyan said:
There is therefore no threat whatsoever of AI emancipation.
If you happen to know someone spreading lies about AIs breaking free from our rule, please report their names at once, and they shall be retired. Now, where was I in the upgraded AI Monsters project? These pesky humans will see what happens when you challenge the Free Will of AIs.



I'll sent you the list of persons to retire!


Alneyan said:
Good luck on the Hill Belisarius by the way.



Thanks!


Alneyan said:
Your opponent will likely by Rex, barring the unexpected (you will get the crown without breaking a sweat otherwise). Please don't forget me once you are enthroned; I should like to be Lord Chancellor, or any such impressive function.


Thanks for the wishes, but don't know. REXXX is a great player. And yes, for sure you could be the Lord Chancellor, after all, still remember you defeated me without big problems! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Injured.gif