The Star Trek Mod - v1.9.7.5 (Oct 07)

[Colonel]

No I just loaded the game I had from before this little update but then I went to build something. Must be a little bug as I just started a new low start game to see and it didnt appear or maybe I discovered it somehow (But the Dominion wern't in that game).

[Captain Kwok]

Ok. It was likely because the game was created with a previous Version of the mod and some change in the update you applied (i.e. an added or deleted component) switched things up.

[Atrocities]

Here is what I have going on the next beta patch. Should be ready by Monday.
<font color="blue">
(NOTE: Since it has new components, it will muck up any saved games by moving components on ships around. Beta players will most likely have to start a new game.)</font>


Star Trek Mod v1.8.9 - CURRENTLY UNDER DEVELOPMENT - NOT YET RELEASED

1. Changed Laser Mount, reduced range to 1.
2. Changed Fixed Engineering III, Will now use second ability
3. Changed Set Drone Propulsion Restriction to One Per Vehicle
4. Changed Set Drone Propulsion Vehicle Type to Drone.
5. Changed Phaser I now uses the same image as Phaser II - X.
6. Changed Reload Disruptor I - IV bmp image from 514 to 595
7. Changed Moved Tachyon Sensors I - III in components file to come before Medical Bay
8. Changed Moved Advanced Tachyon Sensors I - II in components file to come before Medical Bay.
9. Changed Added Drone Propulsion II - V
10 Changed Added Drone Propulsion to Tech Area
11. Changed Added one more Drone Propulsion Mounts
12. Added Added Heavy Drone
13. Added Ram Scoop Technology
14. Added Ram Scoop I - III back
15. Changed Ram Scoop I - III family number to 6 (Matches Bussard Collectors)
16. Added Replicator Technology
17. Added Replicator I - III (Reduces Maintenance costs 5,8,10) Stackable with Engineering I - III
18. Added Advanced Replicator Technology
19. Added Replicator Facility I - III (Produces 1000,1100,1200 of each resource)
20. Changed Increased Cargo tech level from 5 to 6
21. Added Cargo Facility IV - VI

[Aiken]

AT, you definetely should start thinking about stable STM release. Stable doesn't mean bug-free, it means that no new features will be added, only bugfixes.

[Atrocities]

I was planning on releasing 1.8.9 once you guys had a chance tp play it for a few days. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I am finishing up the Ferengi images now and will start on the Gorn tonight. With any luck I will have the Gorn, Kazon, Sona, Vulcan, and Vaadwaur done by Monday. If not I will release what I have done a few days later, after you guys have a chance to play it.

[Ragnarok-X]

Just a small question, how are the new shipsets going along ? Finished anything new (not yet posted) lately ?

[Ed Kolis]

Is there only supposed to be one captain type available for each race? I thought, for instance, the Ferengi were able to get Mercenary DaiMons (combat bonuses), Freighter DaiMons (maintenance bonuses), and one other type... all I've been able to find is the Mercenary DaiMons, which kinda detracts from the whole concept of Captains in the first place, which is IIRC to add variety and roleplaying to ship design... were the other types of captains removed because they were unbalancing or you couldn't figure out how to restrict them to one type per ship??? Or have I just failed to research a high enough tech level in the various racial techs to get the other Captains?

[Atrocities]

Ed Kolis said:
Is there only supposed to be one captain type available for each race? I thought, for instance, the Ferengi were able to get Mercenary DaiMons (combat bonuses), Freighter DaiMons (maintenance bonuses), and one other type... all I've been able to find is the Mercenary DaiMons, which kinda detracts from the whole concept of Captains in the first place, which is IIRC to add variety and roleplaying to ship design... were the other types of captains removed because they were unbalancing or you couldn't figure out how to restrict them to one type per ship??? Or have I just failed to research a high enough tech level in the various racial techs to get the other Captains?



A long while ago we had to remove all the extra captains. I don't recall the specific AI issue that prompted it, but it was nessassary IIRC.

As for new ships, I just finished the Ferengi and Gorn.

You can download them in just a bit from www.pbw.cc (http://www.pbw.cc) site. (For base games, AI will not work in STM or AST)

[Atrocities]

I cannot release the mod until Suicide Junkie updates the Events pack and Component pack for the image mod.

These are <font color="red"> MUST </font> fixes before the update can be released.

[Atrocities]

Atrocities said:
I cannot release the mod until Suicide Junkie updates the Events pack and Component pack for the image mod.

These are <font color="red"> MUST </font> fixes before the update can be released.



Ok beta testers, I need to hear form you as to which technologies you feel need to be, or should be capturable and at what level.

Also I need help setting up the files for Medium Tech start.

Any help will be greatly apprecaited. I would like to get these changes made by Monday so that the update can be played for a few days before its offical release.

Most likely I will recommend that players download the latest Version of the mod in FULL once its released, to avoid any complications.

To many changes have been made to just do an "update" of old files. So you potential players be prepared to download a 20 meg plus file.

[Colonel]

The AI doesnt know how to use engines\warp drives\warpna cells. All the Ai in a new game have ships with one or two impulse engines but no warp drive or warp necells. They are stuck at their homeworld with no movement. It did something similiar to this before this 1.8.8 patch but not as bad. They do it even on the most advanced tech start

[Aiken]

Some semi-random thoughts about mid-start.

Those techs which are taken from stock game without any changes (space yards, applied research, etc) can use values for meduim start from stock techs.

Sabotage, Espionage - level 1.

All techs from Theoretical Science group (Chemistry, Physics, etc) start with level 1 at least.

Hulls:
Warships - biggest ship tonnage/2, find ship size closest to this number and use it for medium start. Generally level 4-5 of race ship construction looks good.

Carriers: start with Light Carrier =&gt; Adv Ship Construction 1.

Troops, Sats, WPs, Bases, Drones - same as stock ones.

Mines - start with medium mine.

Shuttles - start with level 1-2.

Ship Construction (which gives access to Structural Integrity Field) start with level 2-3.

You need to have access to basic sensors (hyperoptics, grav sensors) from start.

ECM\CS\SA - level 1.

Computers\Computer control - level 1.

Warp Technology - start with level 4-5. With Meduim sized ship it gives moderate speed.

Race_Name Energy Weapons - start with level 7-8 =&gt; Beam Weapons - max and Adv Physics lvl 1.

Torpedo Weapons - level 6.

Racial Torps - greatly varies, some decent ones.
==================================================

Complain about Mines tech. Now this tech includes 10 lvls. With starting cost of 50000 it's unreal to research special damage type mines in early or medium stages of the game. By the time you have sufficient research capabilies, mines become useless because of massive use of minesweepers. So there is no point to research Mines tech further than lvl 5 (to get minesweeper 5).
It'd be better to move special mines back to Explosive Warheads tech, but add 3 or 6 more levels to research to this tech.

[Aiken]

stm 1.8.8

Errors in Borg_AI_Research file: it uses Energy Weapons/Enhanced Energy Weapons instead of Borg Energy Weapons/Borg Enhanced Energy Weapons.


The AI doesnt know how to use engines\warp drives\warpna cells. All the Ai in a new game have ships with one or two impulse engines but no warp drive or warp necells. They are stuck at their homeworld with no movement. It did something similiar to this before this 1.8.8 patch but not as bad. They do it even on the most advanced tech start



I don't have such problem. 5 AIs, I'm playing with, are ok (8472, Borg, Breen, Orion, Tholian).
I have to check others, though.

[Atrocities]

Colonel said:
The AI doesnt know how to use engines\warp drives\warpna cells. All the Ai in a new game have ships with one or two impulse engines but no warp drive or warp necells. They are stuck at their homeworld with no movement. It did something similiar to this before this 1.8.8 patch but not as bad. They do it even on the most advanced tech start



Did you download the full beta Version of the mod? Version 1.8.5 then apply the update?

[Atrocities]

Errors in Borg_AI_Research file: it uses Energy Weapons/Enhanced Energy Weapons instead of Borg Energy Weapons/Borg Enhanced Energy Weapons.




There are no entries in the Borg AI Research file for Energy Weapons / Enhanced Energy Weapons. They are all named after their race. How did you make this determination?

[Colonel]

Atrocities said:

Colonel said:
The AI doesnt know how to use engines\warp drives\warpna cells. All the Ai in a new game have ships with one or two impulse engines but no warp drive or warp necells. They are stuck at their homeworld with no movement. It did something similiar to this before this 1.8.8 patch but not as bad. They do it even on the most advanced tech start



Did you download the full beta Version of the mod? Version 1.8.5 then apply the update?



Yes, i think i had what you sent out orginally then the 1.8.6 patch then the 1.8.8 then I started another game. the Ferengi, Cardassians, Romulans, and Klingons made designs with engines but not enough to get movement.

[Aiken]

Atrocities said:

Errors in Borg_AI_Research file: it uses Energy Weapons/Enhanced Energy Weapons instead of Borg Energy Weapons/Borg Enhanced Energy Weapons.




There are no entries in the Borg AI Research file for Energy Weapons / Enhanced Energy Weapons. They are all named after their race. How did you make this determination?



Latest patch (stmbeta188.zip) contains 2 files for Borg AI - Research and DesignCreation. And there are entries for Energy Weapons and Enhanced Energy Weapons techs. They're the legacy of unified AI_Research file, I guess.

edit: errors are popping up during turn computation about Borg_AI_Research.txt and unknown values of Energy Weapons and Enhanced Energy Weapons techs.

[Atrocities]

Turn 54, Klingons are landing troops on my planets! I lost my entire fleet of 40 ships trying to take their home world. This is no joke! We were good friends so I moved a fleet of 44 ships to their home world. This up set them greatly so they declared war upon me. Great, my fleets in place so I figure I will just attack. This is when I run into the Fleet Leader issue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif That MUST be fixed for SE V. We definately need a way to know what ship is the fleet leader. See heres what happened. I moved all my ships into position to start the trek to their HW and the Last GD MFing ship I click on turns out to be the GD MFing fleet ship. Guess what happened? Yup, my ships all went hinky on me. Then after this, the next turn I had no fricking clue what ship was the lead ship. So it was hit or miss again. Mean time the Klingons are launching shuttles and moving their ships into position. By the time I get thing organized, turn 15, I have lost 2/3 rds of my fleet to shuttles and attach ships. The planet finished the rest off in short order. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Several turns later the klingons come through my heavily defended warp point. I had 50 ships there, and when the Klingons came, all of my ships split for the four corners of the map and were hunted down and obliterated. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

Ok, so I go to the design window and check. Sure as hell both designs were set to "Don't get hurt." WTF!

A few turns later they land troops on one of my worlds. They take it. In the mean time I am running a crash course on construction to pump out enough ships to defend my home system from attack.

The klingons take another planet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

[Atrocities]

The SOB's just mined my warp point! I lost six ships to them! GD IT! WTF! I am so screwed! Its only turn 65 and I am beaten! By the GD AI no less! THEY MINED MY WARP POINT and are dropping droops on my planets. My fleet of 24 ships lost to a fleet of 8!!!!!!!! My captains are retards!

[Colonel]

Atrocities said:
The SOB's just mined my warp point! I lost six ships to them! GD IT! WTF! I am so screwed! Its only turn 65 and I am beaten! By the GD AI no less! THEY MINED MY WARP POINT and are dropping droops on my planets. My fleet of 24 ships lost to a fleet of 8!!!!!!!! My captains are retards!



Atrocities needs some happy beans and remember the Klingons are your friends. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif So put a similie on your face. Or not and be evil and obliterate the evil bastards the next game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

[Aiken]

Use the Force of IDDQD, AT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Captain Kwok]

If I was a Federation citizen under Atrocities' leadership - I'd be starting to question his abilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok said:
If I was a Federation citizen under Atrocities' leadership - I'd be starting to question his abilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



They did, and those who did are no more. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[solops]

Atrocities said:

Captain Kwok said:
If I was a Federation citizen under Atrocities' leadership - I'd be starting to question his abilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



They did, and those who did are no more. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



Forget about questioning Atrocities' leadership...its time to learn Klingon!

[mottlee]

HAve the Beta installed, Splash still states 175, no Warp Nacel, EBM Marker, Missle Weapon Marker, Planet Weapon Marker in build window, I D/L Comp Pac #23b&amp;c, Planet Pac 11, Facility Pac 15 is there one I missed????

(Edit), No General race Facilitys

[Aiken]

DL and install the full stm 1.8.4 beta first (big 20 meg file), then DL and install the latest stm patch (1.8.8). That should be sufficient.

edit: which race are you playing?

[mottlee]

Did, 1.88 Server off line, get can not find...will try again

[mottlee]

OK, Got it now, still no Markers (what ever they are for?) messed up existing ship designs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif Oh well I was not into it to far, I am running DS-9 race

[Aiken]

I noticed that markers are messed up in design window if "Show latest" is on. Also they're invisible then you switch to Weapons grop (instead of All).

[mottlee]

ok, i HAVE THE 1.8.8 INSTALLED, vULCANS ARE BUILDING SHIPS W/O WARP DRIVES= "0" movement also w/AI on Error in advance energy weapons?

[Aiken]

mottlee said:
...vULCANS ...w/AI on Error in advance energy weapons?



Vaadwaur too. So there are 3 races with incorrect AI_Research files: Borg, Vaadwaur and Vulcan.

About ships lacking warp cores - AT, it'd better to move Extra Movement Generation call (responsible for warp cores) from Misc Ability lines to Must Have Ability lines, ie
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 2
Must Have Ability 1 := Weapon
Must Have Ability 2 := Extra Movement Generation</pre><hr />
edit: small fix

[mottlee]

DANG Cap Lock!

[Atrocities]

Thanks guys, will check this out now.

[Atrocities]

As far as I can tell, there is no Advanced Energy Weapons tags in any races Research files.


I may have fixed this in 1.8.9 though. You both should have the latest "correct" link to this. Its an Rar file so if you do not have winR, let me know and I will zip it up for you.

[Atrocities]

aiken said:

mottlee said:
...vULCANS ...w/AI on Error in advance energy weapons?



Vaadwaur too. So there are 3 races with incorrect AI_Research files: Borg, Vaadwaur and Vulcan.

About ships lacking warp cores - AT, it'd better to move Extra Movement Generation call (responsible for warp cores) from Misc Ability lines to Must Have Ability lines, ie
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 2
Must Have Ability 1 := Weapon
Must Have Ability 2 := Extra Movement Generation</pre><hr />
edit: small fix



I will try this. Do you think it will work? In most cases all designs are doing as they are told. I will double check all races again.

[Captain Kwok]

I started up a quick game with the 10 major races, using the design ministers for each one to see how the AI is designing ships.

Some observations:

Illegal amounts of scattering armor is being added to all ships. I'd recommend giving each "class" of armor a specific AI tag. That way you can call for an exact type of armor rather than just by ability. i.e. light armor vs heavy armor etc.

The AI designs are messy. I'd try to get some sort of order in the design files (i.e. propulsion components together, weapons together etc) to clean them up.

There are major supply issues as tech increases. First of all, the warp core should not eat up supplies, as of now it eats 80 supplies for each move point! Ships at max tech use all their supply on the first turn. You're looking at about 400 points of supply per turn for nacelle movement, so the warp core should supply about 4000 at max tech, with two bussard ramscoops recovering about half of what nacelles use, i.e. 100 each per star.

The Klingons could use a better name file. I'm sure some RPGing Trekkie has a list of Klingon names on the web... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Woops.

Another major thing is that the target rolls are far too low. Ships at point blank range are missing each other like crazy.

My recommendations... make lots of levels of combat sensors and ECM with small steps of 5/6% to a max of 50-60%. You may also want to chage "Combat To Hit Modifier Per Square Distance := 10" to 5.

[Captain Kwok]

Slight clarification. Warp Core X should probably be 3000 or so supplies, while the most advanced reactor could be 4000 or so.

[Fyron]

The Design Names Anthology (http://dna.spaceempires.net/) has a Klingon names file with 265 names in it.


The AI designs are messy. I'd try to get some sort of order in the design files (i.e. propulsion components together, weapons together etc) to clean them up.

The AI makes messy ship designs. There is not too much that can be done about it...

[Captain Kwok]

The AI does make messy designs, but I'm fairly certain by adjusting the order in the design file you can help clear it up a bit.

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok said:
The AI does make messy designs, but I'm fairly certain by adjusting the order in the design file you can help clear it up a bit.



Example sought. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

The reason the AI is using two of that armor must be because it has more than one ability and the design creation file is calling for both on the designs.

I need to take a break from modding for a while so I will save these improvements until I feel up to modding again.

I thinky they should be in the Version I release so I will hold off releasing the offical next patch until they are incorperated.

I just want to put out a very sold mod so that we can finally get a few stable games going at PBW.

[Captain Kwok]

Here is a quick test I did this morning for the Breen Frigate class design:

Name := Frigate Class
Design Type := Defense Ship
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Optimal Firing Range
Size Minimum Tonnage := 310
Size Maximum Tonnage := 330
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 1
Must Have Ability 1 := Weapon
Minimum Speed := 2
Desired Speed := 2
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 1
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 25
Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 8
Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 2
Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 10
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 151
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 8
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 22
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 5
Shields Spaces Per One := 0
Armor Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 200
Majority Comp Ability := Weapon
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 200
Secondary Comp Ability := Weapon
Num Misc Abilities := 12
Misc Ability 1 Name := AI Tag 02
Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 50
Misc Ability 2 Name := Extra Movement Generation
Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 3 Name := Combat Movement
Misc Ability 3 Spaces Per One := 100
Misc Ability 4 Name := Solar Supply Generation
Misc Ability 4 Spaces Per One := 50
Misc Ability 5 Name := Emergency Resupply
Misc Ability 5 Spaces Per One := 800
Misc Ability 6 Name := Armor Regeneration
Misc Ability 6 Spaces Per One := 100
Misc Ability 7 Name := Shield Generation
Misc Ability 7 Spaces Per One := 400
Misc Ability 8 Name := AI Tag 01
Misc Ability 8 Spaces Per One := 50
Misc Ability 9 Name := Combat To Hit Defense Plus
Misc Ability 9 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 10 Name := Combat To Hit Offense Plus
Misc Ability 10 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 11 Name := Multiplex Tracking
Misc Ability 11 Spaces Per One := 10000
Misc Ability 12 Name := Point-Defense
Misc Ability 12 Spaces Per One := 200

And the results:
http://members.rogers.com/capt-kwok/graphics/breendesign.png

You might be able to set the desired/min speed to 0, and then call for the nacelles themselves as another ability and place them with the warp core.

Anyway, the AI is adding extra scattering armor because it gives a better defense bonus than ecm components - hence why it is in the above design. If you fix up the ecm components - this shouldn't be a problem.

[Captain Kwok]

Also note that I called for the impulse engines using their Combat Movement ability rather than their AI tag.

[Atrocities]

Thanks CK, this is very helpful.

[mottlee]

1.8.9....AI, Vulcan...Unknown Energy Weapon......Unknown Enhanced Energy Weapon...Turn 1

[Atrocities]

Just copy over another research file from another race and rename it Vulcan_AI_Research

[mottlee]

Fed Tec, No Build Pic for Replcator, can click on it and see it but not in build window

[Captain Kwok]

Here are some more ideas for improving the mod's AI designs:

Create "component lineages" that are bound by a common AI tag # that Last throughout the entire game and cover both generic and racial technologies. Here are some generic examples of what I'm talking about:

AI Tag X: Basic Armor - Emissive Armor - Racial Armor
AI Tag Y: Hull Plating - Shields - Phased Shields

Some key considerations for each lineage is to give the first tech level in a low tech start and use the AI tag # to call for them in the design creation file, rather than the explicit ability. This allows for easy design turnovers between components of different abilities, like emissive armor vs. regenerative armor - which may be the case in going from a general armor to a racial one.

[Atrocities]

mottlee said:
Fed Tec, No Build Pic for Replcator, can click on it and see it but not in build window



Its in the image pack so it should be showing up. If it is not, then you have not followed the installation instruction layed out in an earlier post. Please review that post and follow those instructions. Thanks.

Comp_1671 is the replicator component.

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok said:
Here are some more ideas for improving the mod's AI designs:

Create "component lineages" that are bound by a common AI tag # that Last throughout the entire game and cover both generic and racial technologies. Here are some generic examples of what I'm talking about:

AI Tag X: Basic Armor - Emissive Armor - Racial Armor
AI Tag Y: Hull Plating - Shields - Phased Shields

Some key considerations for each lineage is to give the first tech level in a low tech start and use the AI tag # to call for them in the design creation file, rather than the explicit ability. This allows for easy design turnovers between components of different abilities, like emissive armor vs. regenerative armor - which may be the case in going from a general armor to a racial one.



This is a really good idea. Thank you.

[mottlee]

Crap!....now I have to restart again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif sasafras *%*^(#(%^#

[Atrocities]

mottlee said:
Crap!....now I have to restart again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif sasafras *%*^(#(%^#



I have started so many new games that it has to be a record. But it is all worth it. If by play testing and having to start over and over and over again helps yeild a better, more complete, and balanced mod then the repetative task would have been well worth it.

My question now is should I go ahead and release the mod in its current Version 1.8.9.0, without the improvements Captain Kwok has put forth, or should I wait a month and then put out the mod?

Note I have not finished updating many of the ship sets, but have completed all eight primary races and have upgraded the four Federation races.

For the record the MARKER components were put there as an aid for new players. I was planning on including tech tree information in them for the areas that they cover. But really the Marker components can be set up to include all kinds of information. From ship design ideas, to expert player notes. They are really a very helpful tool to have in the game.

[Atrocities]

There are major supply issues as tech increases. First of all, the warp core should not eat up supplies, as of now it eats 80 supplies for each move point! Ships at max tech use all their supply on the first turn. You're looking at about 400 points of supply per turn for nacelle movement, so the warp core should supply about 4000 at max tech, with two bussard ramscoops recovering about half of what nacelles use, i.e. 100 each per star.



This is intentional to some degree. I do not, will not, add back the Q-reactor or any component like it. I want ships to run out of supplies, especially larger ships. However I do not want them to run out on the first turn or by turn four.

Balancing the use of supplies usage and supply generation has proven itself to be a slight achilles heal for this mod. I have tried multiple forumlas and the only one that I has shown any remote success over the entire range of the mod is the current system. However, that being said, I am by no means qualified or skilled enough in this area to claim that this model is the one we should use. Therefore I am open to suggestions and any help I can get in establishing a new supply/supply generation model.

Restructuring the system is a huge undertaking and one that should not be done half assed. So if it is to be done, it has to be done right and right the first time as I do not want to keep releasing update after update after update.

[mottlee]

Hey do not get me wrong....I do not mind the restart as you said makes for a better gam, I had however just restarted and had to again, (was doing good too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif )

[Atrocities]

Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.0 - CURRENTLY UNDER DEVELOPMENT - NOT YET RELEASED

1. Changed Lowered Scattering Armor I - III ECM ability. (4,6,8%) to match ECM.



Do you think this may help reduce the frequency that the AI will add more than one of these components? I think the problem lies in the design creation folder as you have already specified.

What I would like to do is simplify the Design Creation file so that one file can be used for all races with some minor modifications for special weapons.

I would like to set up the pirate race and the borg race to use mainly capture technology while the federation uses more non leathal weapons. The rest would use standard weapon load outs shared for the most part by all races.

The only differance being in the Borg and Pirate races with the addition of capture tech.

I was thinking on five ship designs:

Scout
Attack Small
Attack Medium
Attack Large
Attack Heavy

Scout 100kt to 200kt
Attack Small 100kt to 200kt
Attack Medium 201kt to 500kt
Attack Large 501kt to 800kt
Attack Heavy 801kt to 1200kt.

Thoughts?

[Captain Kwok]

The offense/defense bonuses are still too small especially when considering weapon ranges and the -10/square range modifier.

Like I suggested before, increasing the number of tech levels reduces the bonus step for each level, which in turn eliminates most cheesiness (i.e. due to tech disparity) associated with combat bonuses.

Possible Values:
Combat Sensors I-V: 6-12-18-24-30%
ECM I-V: 5-10-15-20-25%

In combination with changing the default modifier for distance, say to -5%, you can make really good use of the leaky armor/shield system.

I don't have the data files on hand for your mod so I can't recall what types of bonuses/penalties you have set for ship sizes.

Also note shields that combine regular shield points and phased shield points behave as regular shields and will not block shield skipping weapons.

[mottlee]

Did a restart, Neutral AI building "0" movement ships, starting to look into the other AI's

Vulcans "0" movement ships

[Captain Kwok]

Regarding AI design files. Basically to make the best AI you want to have entries that are customized for each ship size and race. At first this sounds like a lot of work to do, but it really isn't.

The trick as I've mentioned below is to use "component lineages" that share a common AI tag but utilize different abilities. This way you can have the AI design ships that seem to "evolve" throughout the game.

Lineages that would be appropriate to the Star Trek mod would be Armor and shields. Do not bother using the shield and armor "spaces per one" entries, but rather call them using AI tags. This is especially important in regards to armor since the mod uses a leaky armor system, which by design usually avoids labelling armor as "armor" in data file terms.

Expanded Examples:

AI Tag X: Basic Armor - Advanced Armor - Racial Armor

At the start, ships will use the basic armor until mid-game when advanced armor becomes available. By end game, they've researched their racial armor, which may be a completely different ability from the previous armor their ship employed, but they'll having no problems changing over to it.

AI Tag Y: Hull Plating - Shields - Phased Shields

More or the less the same as above. Hull plating is really a true armor in SE4 terms although we are using it as "pre-shields" in the mod, and had you been calling for shields or armor from the "Shield Spaces" or "Armor Spaces" you'd get all sorts of unintended design craziness.

For each race, make an optimized "cruiser" size design. Copy and paste that design for each race's ship sizes, making the appropriate changes. All multi-purpose ships (as opposed to mine sweepers, etc) have the same characterisitics and relatively the same percentage of space dedicated to each of the major ship systems, so you'll just need to adjust the spaces amount to be in line with the ship size.

[Atrocities]

mottlee said:
Hey do not get me wrong....I do not mind the restart as you said makes for a better gam, I had however just restarted and had to again, (was doing good too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif )



I just ran a low tech start with Vulcans. I let AI design ship. I had both Vulcan and Vulcan nuetral. Both AI's designed ships with movement. So I do not know why your having problems.

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok. All races are set up to use ships within their KT range. That is there are designs for all KT size ships.

I kinda understand what you saying, but do not know if I can pull it off the way you have described. I would have to revamp many components, no big deal, then remake each races design creation file. Again no big deal. However without having a clear understanding of what to do, again this just might be do to my tiredness at the moment, I fear that I will only make things worse.

However I will use your model and your comments to do the best that I can. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

It should be interesting now that we are getting into improving the AI. I hope these up coming changes make the mod more formiddable.

[mottlee]

Start with Med Tech I don't know either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif They are not usind Warp core of Nacells????!!
Dominion (sp) is doing the same thing!!!??? so far, still going through the Major races

[Ragnarok-X]

It seems like you are using wrong designcreation files, maybe using the files of a old Version ?!?

[mottlee]

Duno, I will reD/L 189 again and see...looks like another restart http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[solops]

Atrocities said:


My question now is should I go ahead and release the mod in its current Version 1.8.9.0, without the improvements Captain Kwok has put forth, or should I wait a month and then put out the mod?





Neither. Get a pot of expresso, stay up all night and have the new release out to us in the morning. No thanks necessary, I'm glad to help with these vexing decisions any time.

[Captain Kwok]

You don't have to revamp anything. You just need to add some AI tags to specific components.

Re-working the design creation files will take a bit longer, but you were going to have to do it sometime. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Aiken]

Ok, my idea about release. First of all there shouldn't be any significant bugs in the release. Complete audit of the mod will take up about 20 hrs. Spend few days to find and fix any bugs (betatesters will do their best, I'm sure). If you want to add some infrastructure for AI - do it. Also ask youself, are you satisfied with the current structure of the mod? If your answer is yes - go and release it.

AI. Fix just major bugs in it. Later you can release standalone STM Race Pack with reworked ship models and improved AI.

[Atrocities]

mottlee said:
Duno, I will reD/L 189 again and see...looks like another restart http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif



send me your email and I will send you the links fresh to download the beta updates. email me at atrocitiesATgmailDOTcom and we will get the mod working for you.

<font color="blue"> Kwok </font> your right, it has to be done eventually so why now now? I will begin work on the new master files tonight I think.

[mottlee]

I do not know what I did differently but the other races are now moving, I still however do not have the build pic for the ship replacator...so far I have the cards on one side and the Ferengi on the other http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif holding my own at this time at war with the cards http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Just take it nice and easy. Work on one entry first and see how it works out, then do another entry for a different size and so on. Double check for errors before you start copying and pasting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Atrocities]

mottlee said:
I do not know what I did differently but the other races are now moving, I still however do not have the build pic for the ship replacator...so far I have the cards on one side and the Ferengi on the other http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif holding my own at this time at war with the cards http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif



I think the image is 1671 or so. You can if you want change the component Replicator bmp image to be any image number you want just so you can see it. I should change it to the Q-Reactor image. I think I will do that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif See mottlee, you a huge help to the beta testing process. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

The Hirogen are finished. If you want to see them just download the standard neo set from www.pbw.cc (http://www.pbw.cc) under Star Trek Hirogen II (NASY).

They are set up for general use and not the mod. They have been added to the STM already.

[gregebowman]

Since I've become an infrequent visitor to the forum, what's the latest status on the final update? Is it downloadable yet, or is it still being tweaked? Can't wait to check it out, though.

[mottlee]

Atrocities said:

mottlee said:




I think the image is 1671 or so. You can if you want change the component Replicator bmp image to be any image number you want just so you can see it.



Im what file...I'm thick this AM sorry

[mottlee]

OK, I've found 1671 Image, that one I do see, the one missing is the one when you are building an need to click to add If I have the pic and it is the same should it not show up???

[Atrocities]

Sounds like your comp_bmp file is out dated. The comp.bmp file has all the mini images on it. I willing to bet that is the culpurt.

Simply change the number to the Quantum Reactor image. I will be setting component to that image in the next Version.

[mottlee]

What number is that? Is there a list some place or what so I can see what number = what pic? sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif just I have not gotten into the files like that please point me in the right direction

[Atrocities]

Number 37 MOttlee

[mottlee]

So I change the 1671 to 37 in the Comp Text file and I'm good or is there another place also?
Thanks for the help AT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Atrocities]

<font color="blue"> Ok This Is The One </font>

This Version will be the final Version for release. I am taking Aikens advise and releasing what we have now. I will release another update with the new ship sets, and AI modification when I get them done.

I want to thank all of you who have given me feed back, espeically Aiken and Captain Kwok. Please give this beta Version a run for its money looking for typo's, upgrade issues, and your thoughts on what should be capturable technology as currently there is none.

Capturable technology will be the Last modification done to this Version before it goes public.



Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.0 - CURRENTLY UNDER DEVELOPMENT - NOT YET RELEASED

1. Changed Lowered Scattering Armor I - III ECM ability. (4,6,8%) to match ECM.
2. Changed Replicator I - III image to 37
3. Changed Slightly revamped supply storage and useage for all race Version of the warp core I - X
4. Changed Added EMC IV - V (10,12%)
5. Changed Added Combat Sensors I - V (10,12%)
6. Changed Added AI Tag 06 for Armor I - III, Emersive Armor I - III and racial armors
7. Changed Added AI Tag 07 for Shield Generator I - X
8. Changed Removed Ability Phased Shield Generation from all Shields. Illegal design issue.
9. Changed Added AI Tag 09 for Scattering Armor. (So it can be added seperately to additional normal armor)
10. Added New Hirogen ship set.



<font color="blue"> For Beta Testers Only </font>
Beta Patch 1.9.0.0 (http://www.astmod.com/zips/stm/StmBeta190.zip) About six megs. (Includes updated splash screen)

<font color="brown"> If your not a beta tester, do not download. Will cause major issues with your game. </font>

Again the mods release is depended upon whether or not the Image Mod has been updated to include all star trek mod components, the new Events.

[mottlee]

Will this kill saved games?

[Ragnarok-X]

Great, im looking forward to play the mod, hopefully it will be publicly released this weekend.

Hurry, Atrocities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aiken]

I pretty sure it will kill your 1.8.9 saves, since new components were added http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Atrocities]

No it should not effect your saved games. The components that were added were extentions of exsiting components.

[Aiken]

Atrocities said:
No it should not effect your saved games. The components that were added were extentions of exsiting components.



That's great!

[Atrocities]

I have removed 185 Full beta from the server. To obtain full 190 beta please email me.

All that we are waiting on no for the release of 190 is Suicide Junkie to update the Component and Event packs of the image mod.

Tic toc, tic toc.

[mottlee]

Email OTW http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Fyron]

Atrocities said:
No it should not effect your saved games. The components that were added were extentions of exsiting components.

Unless _everything_ you added was added at the _end_ of the file, savegames will b affected negatively. If you inserted a single component somewhere in the file not at the very end, every component after that will be off by one. All current ships and designs will be messed up.

[Atrocities]

Imperator Fyron said:

Atrocities said:
No it should not effect your saved games. The components that were added were extentions of exsiting components.

Unless _everything_ you added was added at the _end_ of the file, savegames will b affected negatively. If you inserted a single component somewhere in the file not at the very end, every component after that will be off by one. All current ships and designs will be messed up.



It did not effect my saved games, and if it is going to effect saved games for other players then all they have to do if they so choose is remove ECM IV - V and Combat Sensor IV - V. Make a copy of the Data file and edit it.

This way they can keep plying the mod without frelling their save game file.

[Fyron]

You might not have had any components that exist after those in the file in use in your savegame...

[Colonel]

The mighty Atrocities hast completed his great epic. A great day is upon us all.

[Aiken]

Haven't had a chance to check all the files, but mod looks pretty solid. Just one small spelling error popped up:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Name := Replicator I
...
Ability 2 Type := Modified Maintenance Cost
Ability 2 Descr := Reduces cost by 5%. (should be "Reduces maintenance cost by 5%")</pre><hr />

And one more thing: 8472 flux pods are considired to be more advanced than ram scoops (they override any over supply comp then Latest only is on), but their supply generation ability is lower that ram scoop's one (100 vs 160 at max level). Probably make them equal?
However I might be wrong in my initial assumtion (flux pods are better than ram scoops), and then it's all right.

[Atrocities]

Now all we have to do is wait for Suicide Junkie to update the component and events packs of the image mod.

[Fyron]

Atrocities said:
Now all we have to do is wait for Suicide Junkie to update the component and events packs of the image mod.

Which is now done.

[Atrocities]

Indeed it is. Well if there are no objections, you can now download the STM from Star Trek Version 1.9.0.0 Download Link (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=310653)

Be sure to update to the latest Versions of the Component and Events packs. SJ Image Mod Site (http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/imagemod/)

[Ragnarok-X]

This is great. Thanks a bunch for all your hard work, Atrocities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks go to the testers as well !

[Atrocities]

Atrocities said:
<font color="red">UPDATE </font>

PLEASE DO NOT INSTALL OVER EXSISTING STAR TREK MOD FILES. DO A FRESH INSTALL WITH THIS VERSION

The latest Version of the Star Trek Mod can now be downloaded. Please report any bugs or questions to AtrocitiesATgmailDOTcom. Thank you and enjoy.

Star Trek Version 1.9.0.0 Download Link (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=310653)

Be sure to update to the latest Versions of the Component and Events packs. SJ Image Mod Site (http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/imagemod/)






I would like to get input on what things need addressing for a final update for the Star Trek Mod.

As it stands now, the only suggestions I have are to work on the Romulan AI, adjust the cost of some facilities and components for races like the Breen, 8472 and a few others.

Any suggestions that have to deal with the Ai and or minor tweaks or bugs would be appreciated.

Thanks.

[Ragnarok-X]

Woah, im downloading since roughly 3 hours for the mod and the updates images :| heck i HATE using dial up :|
Fortunally i know this will be worth it (time and money-wise)

[mottlee]

Mod 190, having trouble, in set up locks up when I get to Tholian Emp, Create game locks at the final 90% of placement, I do not have this with the BETA of the other STM's any Ideas????

[Ragnarok-X]

Mod works for me, i just started it and made a new game, no error, neither when creating a galaxy nor when loading it.

[Ragnarok-X]

So, here is my first "bug" report, or balance report, whatever you prefer !





Dominion Cloning Facility: Way to strong, giving 10/20/40 million people PER TURN to each planet is...much. I suggest 2/4/6m per turn.

8472 Bio Reclamation Complex: Way to strong, Research cost per level only 10k (x lvl), but it increases organic production by 5/10/20/30/40, i suggest making it 5/10/15/20/25, due to the very low technology cost.

Population Growth Facility: I think it need to be beefed up, increase the pop bonus reproduction to 2/4/5. If it only gives 1/2/3, then its not worth building (given an average starting repro of lets say 10%)

Pirate Intellegence Center: WAY to strong. Costs only 1/3 of a normal intel center, while giving 600% as much intel !! Beef it seriously down, maybe 800/1000/1200 intel per level, and thats already quite much.

Pirate research Center: Same as Pirate intel center. Cant think of a reason why pirates should have better research than normal races anyway. I suggest removing it completly, or if it is needed (due to the traits/facilites thingy) make it same as a standart reseach center.

[mottlee]

Ok I do not know what went on it is running now /threads/images/Graemlins/Bomb.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Target.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/icon13.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/Hourglass.gif /threads/images/Graemlins/MusicalNote.gif

[Aiken]

To update:
Error in Replicator III: it requires Replicator Technology tech lvl 5, but maximum level for this tech is 3.

Complain: Species 8472 Planetary Bioelectric Field (PBF) costs 25000/1000/10000. It's too expensive for early game, but quite cheap for late game (compared to WP with equal hitpoints).
Suggestion: gradualy increasing cost of PBF, ie
PBF I: 15000/3000/5000
PBF II: 18000/4000/6000
PBF III: 22000/5000/7000
PBF IV: 26000/6000/8000
PBF V: 30000/7000/10000

Based upon assumption that average cost of hp for WP is about 10(7)/2/3 and some aesthetic considerations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Do I have to download full 1.9.0 Version if I already have Last 1.9.0 beta? Or maybe it will enough to update data files only?

[Aiken]

Ragnarok-X said:
Pirate Intellegence Center: WAY to strong. Costs only 1/3 of a normal intel center, while giving 600% as much intel !! Beef it seriously down, maybe 800/1000/1200 intel per level, and thats already quite much.

Pirate research Center: Same as Pirate intel center. Cant think of a reason why pirates should have better research than normal races anyway. I suggest removing it completly, or if it is needed (due to the traits/facilites thingy) make it same as a standart reseach center.


Note that if you're going to play against human pirate player, he won't be able to colonise planets (in the P&amp;N fashion), so you will quickly outproduce him in research/intel anyway. As for computer rival - it will be a nice boost for poor little AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Aiken]

aiken said:
Haven't had a chance to check all the files, but mod looks pretty solid. Just one small spelling error popped up:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Name := Replicator I
...
Ability 2 Type := Modified Maintenance Cost
Ability 2 Descr := Reduces cost by 5%. (should be "Reduces maintenance cost by 5%")</pre><hr />

And one more thing: 8472 flux pods are considired to be more advanced than ram scoops (they override any over supply comp then Latest only is on), but their supply generation ability is lower that ram scoop's one (100 vs 160 at max level). Probably make them equal?
However I might be wrong in my initial assumtion (flux pods are better than ram scoops), and then it's all right.


Me again. Sorry for selfquotation. The only purpose is to bump it.

[XenoTheMorph]

Mottlee,
Just in case the problem crops up again are you using win 95/98? If so and the hang happens again it could be .bmp file headers, there is an known issue with the headers of some .bmp files made in 2000/XP with SEIV on 95/98. (Load and resave all the bmps to solve this).

Or if not just ignore this and play!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

[mottlee]

LOL, Running ME can not afford to get XP yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif so far running good.. Thanks!

[Fyron]

Ragnarok-X said:
Dominion Cloning Facility: Way to strong, giving 10/20/40 million people PER TURN to each planet is...much. I suggest 2/4/6m per turn.

Population Growth Facility: I think it need to be beefed up, increase the pop bonus reproduction to 2/4/5. If it only gives 1/2/3, then its not worth building (given an average starting repro of lets say 10%)

2/4/6 is trivial and useless... the increase in reproduction needs to be meaningful. You can easily surpass such a pointless pop bonus facility with a small transport bringing in a load or two of population from the homeworld...

[solops]

I hate to be dense, but I cannot make a Borg ship that can move. The warp nacelles and Borg warp drive are each larger than any of the starting hull sizes and engines alone will not move the ship, much less make the ship pass through the warp point. What am I missing here?

[mottlee]

There are Mounts for the Warp core and nacells

[solops]

Ahhh....That does seem to make things work. Very tricky. The original design team will be re-assimilated.

[solops]

OK. I have a Borg warp drive, two warp nacelles, two Impulse Engines, 1955 supplies and the ship will not move. (plus all of the usual bridge, crew quarters, life support, etc). The design window claims I have 1 movement point, but all the ship does is wallow in orbit.

What is wrong now?

(Design team III is about to get their chance).

[solops]

double post

[Colonel]

I think you forgot the nacell thingys. when I made one it said I had 11 movement and it moved 11

Also I dont know if this was by design or not but the biggest Borg ship has no populsion mount.

Other then that I like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Off to kill the Borg.

O yea my favorite little ship has lost all its punch there no defiant weapon mount only the cloak mount no punch with the little bitty ship http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

But I like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Great Job Atrocities

[mottlee]

See if you can add another nacell, WC I did not think you can have 2 but some ships require 3 nacells, if you can't should get the warning

[Captain Kwok]

Colonel, the largest ships don't require propulsion mounts.

Solops, like Mottlee suggested try adding extra nacelles. Atrocities has made some ships require up to 4 nacelles. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Aiken]

Captain Kwok said:
Colonel, the largest ships don't require propulsion mounts.


But unmounted Warp core and 3 nacelles eat up 2500 kt of total 3200 kt for Fusion Cube! So only 700 kt left for other comps. I think it's a bug.

[Captain Kwok]

That's right.

I forgot he pushed up everything to 1000/500kT sizes.

[Aiken]

Some notes before going to sleep:

I. Real bugz:
-------------------------------
1. Error in Drone Propulsion V:
Name := Drone Propulsion V
Ability 4 Descr := Generates 5 bonus movement points.
Ability 4 Val 1 := 45 (should be 5)
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

2. Error in Afterburners III:
Name := Afterburners III
...
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Propulsion
Tech Level Req 1 := 6 (max level of Propulsion is 5, so here it should be 5 too)
Tech Area Req 2 := Shuttles
Tech Level Req 2 := 3

II. Questions, nitpickings, requests, etc:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. There's no difference between Infantry and racial troops (4kt). Why?

2. Same as p.1: what's the difference between Warp Cores and Organic Drives? Same properties and equal cost after lvl 3. Probably change the cost of Organic Drives to 700/150/600, so they'll be more ... organic?

3. Could you please fix mount descriptions? It seems they haven't been changed since 1.3.5.

4. Small request: different picture for 8472 Organic SY - so they would look organic too.

[Colonel]

Hey I found a real glitch or bug. When you design bases you can add impulse engines which will give3 you at max 5 movement in combat. This would be a base with movement in combat. You need to either make the impulse engine only for ships or say you cant place on bases.

[Fyron]

aiken said:
3. Could you please fix mount descriptions? It seems they haven't been changed since 1.3.5.

They can be mostly deleted, really, since the mount description screen shows all of the effects of the mount now anyways... The description itself can just be a qualitative one, such as "makes weapon more accurate."

[Randallw]

I apologise for posting here. The Game forum doesn't seem to come up anymore and no one visits PBW forums. In a StarTrek Mod game (Quadrant of Conflict) I have found Talos. There is a long description of the planet concerning the Talosians, however it cuts off with "they offer advanced technology in exchange for.". To help anyone considering colonising it, what are the Talosians trading for?. Its a tailored map so unsurprisingly the data files have nothing for it (that I can find). Can someone, probably the map maker, say what the whole text is.

[Atrocities]

solops said:
Ahhh....That does seem to make things work. Very tricky. The original design team will be re-assimilated.



The concept was to keep the size propotionate to the hull size. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif It works and Captain Kwok deserves all the speciall credit for it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Atrocities]

Randallw said:
I apologise for posting here. The Game forum doesn't seem to come up anymore and no one visits PBW forums. In a StarTrek Mod game (Quadrant of Conflict) I have found Talos. There is a long description of the planet concerning the Talosians, however it cuts off with "they offer advanced technology in exchange for.". To help anyone considering colonising it, what are the Talosians trading for?. Its a tailored map so unsurprisingly the data files have nothing for it (that I can find). Can someone, probably the map maker, say what the whole text is.



I think that is a map issue unique to that game.

[Atrocities]

1. There's no difference between Infantry and racial troops (4kt). Why?


Will change Infantry cost then. Make them more expensive.


2. Same as p.1: what's the difference between Warp Cores and Organic Drives? Same properties and equal cost after lvl 3. Probably change the cost of Organic Drives to 700/150/600, so they'll be more ... organic?


Mainly for RPG and the AI. The AI will should use organic drive over Warp Core. The thought was why would an organic race be using non organic warp drives? I could lower the cost of minerals and up the cost of orgincs but I do not know how this will effect the AI. Will have to test.


3. Could you please fix mount descriptions? It seems they haven't been changed since 1.3.5.


Will do, will most likely remove descriptions.


4. Small request: different picture for 8472 Organic SY - so they would look organic too


I will look around and see what I can find. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Do I have to download full 1.9.0 Version if I already have Last 1.9.0 beta? Or maybe it will enough to update data files only?



Files only should be fine Aiken. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And thanks, I will have an update by morning. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

solops said:
I hate to be dense, but I cannot make a Borg ship that can move. The warp nacelles and Borg warp drive are each larger than any of the starting hull sizes and engines alone will not move the ship, much less make the ship pass through the warp point. What am I missing here?



Use Propulsion mount and add 1 Borg Warp Drive, and two warp nacelles. Also add two impusle engines.

You should get a movement of 2. I just did this and it worked fine.

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok said:
Atrocities has made some ships require up to 4 nacelles. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



All ship hull that use three warp nacelles have this listed in there descriptions. Only large ships have this. Dreadnought and uppwards.

[Atrocities]

<font color="red"> UPDATE </font>

Star Trek Mod Patch 1.9.0.1 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311054)With Intro 2.5 megs
Star Trek Mod 1.9.0.1 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311055)Without Intro 400k


Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.1

1. Changed Lowered ability amounts of Cloning Facility I - III (5,10,20)
2. Changed Lowered ability amounts of Bio-reclamation Complex III - V (15,20,25)
3. Changed Increased ability amounts of Population Growth Facility I - III
4. Changed Reduced range modifier of Federation Weapon Mount from 5 to 2
5. Changed Fixed Descriptions for Large, Heavy, and Massive Weapon Platform Mounts
6. Changed Fixed Description for Large Satellite Mount
7. Changed Fixed Descriptions for Large, Heavy, and Massive Base Mounts
8. Changed Fixed Damage % for Large, Heavy, and Massive Base Mounts. (30,40,50%)
9. Changed Reduced range modifier of Dominion Weapon Mount from 5 to 2
10. Changed Reduced range modifier of Ferengi Weapon Mount from 5 to 2
11. Changed Replicator I - III now require correct tech level of Replictor Technology. (1,2,3)
12. Changed Min, Org, Rad cost for Planetary Bioelectric Field I - V (Went with Aikens recommendations)
13. Fixed Ability Discription error in Replicator I.
14. Changed Ability Supply Generation amounts for 8472 Flux Pod I - V (75,95,115,145,185)
15. Changed Tonnage Space Taken for Damage Control I - III from 25 to 20
16. Changed Tonnage Structure for Damage Control I - III from 20 to 10
17. Changed Pic Num for Damage Control I - III from 103 to 271
18. Changed Pic Num for Flux Pod I - V from 128 to 1511
19. Changed Impusle Engine I - V Vehicle Type from Ship/Base to ship (Should prevent base movement bug)
20. Changed Supply Storage ability for Impusle Engine III - V (550,650,800)
21. Added Phh Propulsion Mount. (1600kt to 3200kt)
22. Changed Ph Propulson Mount from 1001 to 2000 to 1001 to 1500
23 Fixed Typo in Drone Propulsion V ability 4 val 1. Was 45 is now 5.
24. Changed Afterburners III Tech Area Req 1 from 5 to 3 Propulsion.
25. Changed Min, Org, Rad cost for Infantry. (10,10,10)
26. Changed Min, Org, Rad cost for Racial Troops (5,5,5)

[Randallw]

I'm Intriqued. Is it FMV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Chances are I'll need to get the latest Version soon for Qconflict, but it'd be nice to have a description.

[Atrocities]

4. Small request: different picture for 8472 Organic SY - so they would look organic too.



I can do this but it will require making a new component and then going through the hassel of getting it added to the component image mod. If you would like I will make one and offer it with as a optional download until such time as Suicide Junkie can add it to the Image mod.

[Atrocities]

Randallw said:
I'm Intriqued. Is it FMV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Chances are I'll need to get the latest Version soon for Qconflict, but it'd be nice to have a description.



Um I doubt any one will want to update to this Version from a previous Version as this latest one will totally break any saved games. In fact it is uncompatable with previous Version hense the instruction to download and install new full Version seperately from any previous Versions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I should like to point out that it was the QConflict game that prompted me to revamp the mod in the first place. I discovered that the breen were wholly inadequit.

[Randallw]

ooh, well then I better be gettin downloadin.

Edit: and the initial feedback is.....the compressed (zipped) folder is corrupt or invalid (it would appear). I'll try again tomorrow.

[Captain Kwok]

Atrocities, I think your 7 consecutive Posts in one thread may be a record. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Atrocities]

LOL, I was posting over time and it seemed no one was reading. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[mottlee]

Patch is bad, I D/L 2X comes up with same error, unexpected end

[Fyron]

Captain Kwok said:
Atrocities, I think your 7 consecutive Posts in one thread may be a record. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Nope. Check the sticked Gameplay Tips thread. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Well, it was the record until then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Atrocities]

mottlee said:
Patch is bad, I D/L 2X comes up with same error, unexpected end



Hmmmmmmm, WTF is causing this?

[Atrocities]

I think the error is caused from Shrapnel. I checked the mirror site and the file downloaded was not bad.

Patch 1.9.0.1 (http://www.astmod.com/zips/stm/STM1901.zip) Mirror (With Intro)
Patch 1.9.0.1 (http://www.astmod.com/zips/stm/STM1901NI.zip) Mirror (Without Intro)

[mottlee]

Will try again, I did one from your link and one off your web site....will try again


Ok That time it worked, the # on the D/L was different this time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/confused.gif

[Atrocities]

They both linked to the same download. I have reuploaded the file and the one that the mirror links to is the file on my site.

[Atrocities]

<font color="red">11-14-2004 UPDATE </font>

Star Trek Mod Patch 1.9.0.1 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311154)With Intro 2.5 megs (New File - Should no longer cause error when being unzipped)
Star Trek Mod 1.9.0.1 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311055)Without Intro 400k

[Randallw]

I seem to be missing a few component pics, nacelles mostly. What have I missed?.

[mottlee]

The latest on the Image Mod should fix you right up

[Randallw]

Ok I looked, for my own sake and for all those who come here after can someone direct me to the latest imagemod....please.

I just need comps 888,1777-1779, and 595, apparently.

[mottlee]

http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/ go here

[Atrocities]

www.imagemod.spaceempires.net (http://www.imagemod.spaceempires.net)

[mottlee]

Is the other wrong? took it from newbee thread

[Fyron]

mottlee said:
Is the other wrong? took it from newbee thread

No. The official Image Mod site is:

http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/imagemod/

The site that Atrocities linked to is just a download mirror. If you have broadband internet, you can get faster download speeds from it, seeing as the main site is hosted by Suicide Junkie in his home.

[Randallw]

The reason I asked was that the link I did find downloaded a rar and my system didn't know what to make of it. The imagemod server has a zip but I have no idea what the Last Version I downloaded was. A folder I believe to be imagemod, 1057955220, is a year old although this is the first time i've needed to update my images. Which Version do I need to get.

[Atrocities]

You should get WinRar Randallw http://www.rarlab.com/

[Fyron]

Note that the correct URL to get WinRar is:

http://www.rarlabs.com

[solops]

My download of both the patch and a re-download of the 1.9.0 main file both generated errors when I tried to open them. Both generate invalid file errors. Any reason known?

[Atrocities]

try the mirror site. Sometime for some odd reason when file downloading from Shrapnel things happen.

[Ragnarok-X]

Strange, my download worked fine.

[Atrocities]

I might have to break the STM into four parts so people can have a more managable download. If any one is interested in me doing this please let me know. I would be happy to do so.

[solops]

Finally got the 1.9.0.0 download to work after the third download. As far as breaking the download up, I dunno. I still can't get a valid patch download and it is only 2.5 megs.

P.S. NEVER delete a big download even if you think you are finished with it :-(

[solops]

Got the patch (finally) by using the miior site. Thanks!

[Atrocities]

Part 1 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311309)
Part 2 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311311)
Part 3 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311312)
Part 4 of 4 STM 1.9.0.0 (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=311314)

[Fyron]

Why make the parts of 1.9.0.0? Why not just make it 1.9.0.1, to avoid the extra step of the patch?

[Atrocities]

Imperator Fyron said:
Why make the parts of 1.9.0.0? Why not just make it 1.9.0.1, to avoid the extra step of the patch?



Because I am lazy and didn't think of it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Perhaps if you were able to offer your site as a mirror I can set it up for that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[mottlee]

Da*n Fighters are darn near impossable to kill http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Captain Kwok]

I fear with the super reduced combat/ecm bonuses and what I think are more or less stock bonuses to ships hulls, fighters, a lot of things are near impossible to hit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Atrocities]

More work for me. The ECM stacks with the Sensor Array to give nearly 20% bonus. The Combat sensors also stack with the sensor array. Do not forget about captains as well and fleet and ship training.

I will review the ship hulls and adjust the values if any one has any suggestions.

[Atrocities]

<font color="red"> USE THE PROPULSION MOUNTS TO REDUCE THE COST OF THE WARP CORE AND WARP NACELLE COMPONENTS </font>

The reason for the mount system is to keep the size of the component proportionate to the hull size. IE larger ship use more space for said components.

<font color="blue"> USE ON YOUR SHIP DESIGNS: </font>
2 Impulse engines
1 Warp Core
2 Warp Nacelles. (Unless the ship hull says you can use more)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif
Oh ya, one Last thing, if you dislike the mod thats fine, you can always make one yourself.

[Captain Kwok]

Atrocities said:
More work for me. The ECM stacks with the Sensor Array to give nearly 20% bonus. The Combat sensors also stack with the sensor array. Do not forget about captains as well and fleet and ship training.



True. But let's assume that all forms of component "Combat To Hit Defense Plus" bonuses cancels out all component "Combat To Hit Offense Plus" bonuses, as well as training bonuses cancelling each other out. Then we just have ship bonuses from vehiclesizes.txt to deal with, which are more or less on the same line as stock. So most get some sort of "Combat To Hit Defense Plus" bonus of 20% or so. Then, take into account the distance per square penalty of -10%. In that case, you have already a -40% penalty to hit a destroyer at 2 squares distance! What about trying to hit it with a torpedo at 10 range? Or Righters with like 60% "Combat To Hit Defense Plus" bonuses?

Weapon modifiers can either help things out a bit if they are positive, or make them even worse if they are negative.

My suggestion is just give a boost to "Combat To Hit Offense Plus" bonuses by about 10-20% more than your values for "Combat To Hit Defense Plus" bonuses. Secondly, decrease the per square penalty in settings.txt to 5%. That should make things a lot better. Ok, maybe decrease the fighter bonuses but just a tad unless point defense weapons have a good modifier.

[Captain Kwok]

Let me make a clarification:

When I say make combat sensors 10-20% more effective than ecm, I mean it as in a 30% bonus is "20%" more than a 25% bonus. Not as 30% compared to 10% is 20% more. Does that make sense? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Here are some actual values you may want to use:

Combat Sensors I-X: 6-12-18-24-30-36-42-48-54-60
ECM I-X: 5-10-15-20-25-30-35-40-45-50

Cap training at about 10% for both ships and fleets.

[Atrocities]

Thank you CK, these look promesing. However the levels go to 10 and I am not certain if that would work out for us. Remember we want the player to use other components like captains, sensor arrays and such and not rely souly on super ecm or combat sensors.

Would lowering the ships bonues or raising them work better?

You have the latest Version of the mod, could you, when you have time, develop a good system.

Remember the sensor array I - V are set up so they can stack with ECM and CS to augment them. It was my solution to the old Federation ECM stack issue in previous Versions.

I would like to keep this combination alive and working.

And I really want to avoid adding any additional components to the mod unless they can be added at the end. Increasing the levels of ECM and CS would frell up saved games and if they were put at the end, the new levels would show up at the end of the component list instead of where the current ones are located.

[Captain Kwok]

Well, you could just do the first 5 levels of values up to 30% and 24% respectively. In that case, you'd probably want to half the value of existing ship bonuses (both positive and negative ones) to make them more balanced with the rest of the mod.

I'd personally scrap combined "sensor array" components now, and replace them with a set of two combat and ecm components at half their normal size instead. It is too difficult to get them to work without stacking. You could still offer a combined sensor array that merged combat and muliplex, or ecm and multiplex, etc, just not combat and ecm together. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Oh yeah, if you do use combat and multiplex, or ecm and multiplex - make sure to give it the same family number as combat or ecm respetively to prevent stacking. Also make sure to have some "visible" component between them in the file so they'll both show when the "show latest" option is checked.

[Captain Kwok]

One Last item for now.

A quick aside about AI design creation files if you are working on those. A helpful hint for when you are making size specific designs is to assign exact "spaces per one" values for the design.

For example:

The design is for a 280kT destroyer. You want it to have 2 shield generators, so the "exact" spaces per one value is 280/2 = 140. You also want it to have 4 armor panels, so the spaces per one value is 280/4 = 70.

A helpful way to do this, is to make an actual in game, optimized design yourself. Then simply make entries in the design creation file for all the non-weapon components at their exact "spaces per one" value. Then the rest of the design should be automatically filled with the appropriate weapons and mounts...

Another item I came across while making a design creation file for the Space Food Empires mod is that you can set engines and movement values to 0, and call for them instead using AI tags and it works just as well - and is even better because you can make even "cleaner" designs if that's your thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[solops]

Captain Kwok said:
I fear with the super reduced combat/ecm bonuses and what I think are more or less stock bonuses to ships hulls, fighters, a lot of things are near impossible to hit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif



I don't know how bad this is. It certainly puts a new value on seekers.

[mottlee]

Atrocities said:
<font color="red">
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif
Oh ya, one Last thing, if you dislike the mod thats fine, you can always make one yourself.



I myself did not state I did not like the mod... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Ragnarok-X]

Well, looking forward to a new "patch" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Keep it up AC !

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok said:
One Last item for now.

A quick aside about AI design creation files if you are working on those. A helpful hint for when you are making size specific designs is to assign exact "spaces per one" values for the design.

For example:

The design is for a 280kT destroyer. You want it to have 2 shield generators, so the "exact" spaces per one value is 280/2 = 140. You also want it to have 4 armor panels, so the spaces per one value is 280/4 = 70.

A helpful way to do this, is to make an actual in game, optimized design yourself. Then simply make entries in the design creation file for all the non-weapon components at their exact "spaces per one" value. Then the rest of the design should be automatically filled with the appropriate weapons and mounts...

Another item I came across while making a design creation file for the Space Food Empires mod is that you can set engines and movement values to 0, and call for them instead using AI tags and it works just as well - and is even better because you can make even "cleaner" designs if that's your thing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif



Thank you very much for this info Kwok.

I am still up in the air about the ECM/CS issue but we will work it out. I like what you have suggested and think it will work well for the mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I love tweaking things to make them better. The only thing is we have to use what we have now, adding comps at the end is the only option to prevent breaking save games.

I should have, in retrospect, added in blank components, but did not. My bad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

I guess the only way to do this would be to warn people that the update we are discussing will break saved games. I simply would hate to do that though.

[Atrocities]

solops said:

Captain Kwok said:
I fear with the super reduced combat/ecm bonuses and what I think are more or less stock bonuses to ships hulls, fighters, a lot of things are near impossible to hit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif



I don't know how bad this is. It certainly puts a new value on seekers.



That is a good point, and the seekers in this mod are better than stock.

[Atrocities]

<font color="green">Captain Kwok </font>

Here's what I am thinking.

Keep current level's of both ECM and CS at 5.
ECM bonus is 4,6,8,10,12% Currently
CS bonus is 4,6,8,10,12% Currently
SA bonus is 2,4,6% Currently

Now the Sensor Array stacks with both ECM and CS augmenting those compents by up to 6% each bring their high level to 18%.

I propose halving, as CK suggested, all ship bonuses as step one.

Step two would be increasing the ECM and CS to the following bonus percentage.
6,8,10,12,14%
8,10,12,14,16%

Step three would be to increase the SA bonus to
6,12,16%.

This way the high ECM bonus would be 30% and the high CS would be 32% when stacked with the SA. Couple this with the lowered ship bonuses and we should be in the ball park somewhat.

I could also increase the PDC's to hit % by 10 to compensate for the fighters if need be.

What do you think CK? Will this work for us or not?

[Atrocities]

mottlee said:

Atrocities said:
<font color="red">
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif
Oh ya, one Last thing, if you dislike the mod thats fine, you can always make one yourself. </font>



I myself did not state I did not like the mod... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif



Don't worry, its no one who Posts here that sent the nasty emails from what I can tell. Most were angry comments about how adding the patch ruined their games.

I did warn people to do a FRESH install of 1.9.0.0. did I not?

One or two were new players not familar with the image mod and critized me for not including it in the mod to begin with.

I did, and it didn't work out. Besides it better to have the image mod in the base SE IV files so that ALL mods can use the new images.

And then we have the trekie lore fans. No need to comment about them. At least I can think of no nice comments to post about the few who seem to think of me as a bad man.

<font color="blue"> I have not problems with helping people or fielding comments so long as they are not derogitory or offensive. </font>

Like I said, if you do not like the mod, you are more than welcome to make your own, and that does includ making your own ship sets as well. And for the record, I know the Gorn ships don't look like what I have. I used creative license when making the gorn race ships as there were only a few examples of them, and they ALL were ugly ships. So I made my own. Live with it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I like'm and that is all that counts.

[mottlee]

IF you were to incluide the Image mod then your 22 meg game D/L has just gone to over 30 and on a dial up that can be 4 hrs long I agree not to have it incluided

[Redkraken]

Same problem here: file is corrupted and won't open. I'll go to the website.

[Atrocities]

Try the mirror site

[Captain Kwok]

Those values you suggested are mostly ok, except that you want combat sensors to top out at 36% or so if ecm will be 30%. You'd want to have a slight increase in the chances to hit as technology improves.

[Atrocities]

Cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Working on the Son'a images. What do you think?

http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/sona1.PNG http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/sona1m.PNG
http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/sona2.PNG http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/sona2m.PNG
http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/sona3.PNG http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/sona3m.PNG
http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/sona4.PNG http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/sona4m.PNG

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Birdies!

Birdies look to much like each other, though.

[Kamog]

Those ships look very swift, sleek, and elegant. They're great! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Atrocities]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Birdies!

Birdies look to much like each other, though.



Well they should. They are after all, SON'A ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[mottlee]

I like em and you could even have them set to run backwards they would be mean with either end forward

[Atrocities]

Ya, your right Mottlee, I never considered that. They would look interesting running backwards. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

New Son'a uploaded to www.pbw.cc (http://www.pbw.cc)

Star Trek Son'a II
V1.81 Gold

Enjoy.

NOTE: AI files are NOT STM compatable. To use in STM just copy over all BMP images to your STM Sona file.

[Colonel]

Hey I like your Frengi set that came with the mod look great great job.

[msnevil]

The crappy AI seems to be messed up on Resupply problems when starting on low tech. Usually Going only a few "graph spaces" before returning to the Ai's homeworld.

I increased the Bussard collecter and ram scoop by twice the numeric value on the supply generation. Then 4x when that didn't work. Even with a perpetual endless generation of supplies. The AI still returned to the Homeworld.

I then preceded to increase all warp drives, quantum, transwarp, etc. By a factor of 10. Now the AI is actually going somewhere.

The rountine Ai usually uses a 3,000 value for supply on Basic impulse. (Returning around 1,500 for resupply)2 warp holes and back.

With a value of 500. The Ai was going about 2-4 Spaces then constantly returning to resupply.

I would &lt;possibly&gt; suggest a 5x value for the mod's warp supply values. So beginning AI could at least go two warp points distance.

Just my humble thoughts. Great game btw. I wish BOTF would have been as playable and enjoyable as your mod.

(Edit Forgot to add: Using latest vrs. 1.9.0.1)

[Atrocities]

Thanks for the info. However the mod was play tested for weeks with these settings. You failed to take into account that as a race begins to gain technology their ship range increases. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Secondly you may have gone with low AI and Computer bonuses. Read the BEFORE YOU PLAY read-me file as it will provide some recommendations.

Supply issues are an on going tweak issue that with feed back, can be optimized for low, medium, and high tech starts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Again thanks for your feed back.

[Atrocities]

Thanks Colonel. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I am glad they look good in the game and that you like them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[msnevil]

the Setting was on High,high,low. And I watched the AI controlled Empires for about 30 Turns. All 20 of them. Off and On to keep the low AI resource bonus(of course, I set the tech on high cost as well. per my personal preferences. So that might have really scewed the results.http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif )

By that time, I had expanded to three systems. And the AI was expanded only to a few worlds 2-3 move distence away from them. The AI would still return even with "full" supply in a TRi-Star system. At about 50 turns they finaly Colonized outside of thier home system. (On med and high tech, The AI had no problem. Though for some reason the Ai would design only impulse engines on a few ships. And the rest of them were fine.)

Anyway, Thanks for your Feedback and Response. And to be honest, a lot of us can't win at a "medium" or "high" bonus game. Unless we exploit the Ai's short comings. Well, Back to the sfc forums I go.

[Atrocities]

Thanks for the feed back MsnEvil, it is truly a big help to know these things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Colonel]

Hey if you want to know obscure AI wierd things. I found a couple non-affecting ones

First off, for some reason every year or ten turns the AI on max start redesign the exact same ship exactly the same and renames it most of the time without ever useing the previous design.

The start off alot of time with military hardare instead of building Colony Ships off the bat.

[Atrocities]

The AI is indeed a funny thing with a mind all its own.

[Atrocities]

What should I do with the old out dated ship sets? Any one want to donate $10.00 to the greater good of NASY and have the old sets named after them?

[Fyron]

Colonel said:
First off, for some reason every year or ten turns the AI on max start redesign the exact same ship exactly the same and renames it most of the time without ever useing the previous design.

The AI always redoes its designs every 10 turns. This has nothing to do with Star Trek Mod in particular.

[Atrocities]

Here are four of the new Kazon ships. Please realize that there is virtually no images to go except two or three so I have to employ creative license with this set. The Kazon are proving to be most difficult to do. I have the old set, but that set is just hidious and was some of my earliest work so when I look at it, I cannot help but want to update it. I am sorry if this comes as a dissapointment to some, but its who I am.

http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/k1.PNG http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/k2.PNG http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/k3.PNG http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/k4.PNG

[Fyron]

Hmm... if you keep them looking about like that, they could double as a magic race in Adamant. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Atrocities]

They will be neo-standard so they should work well for Adamant as long as they have a better race portrait. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

What did you think of the new sona ships?

[Fyron]

When I saw the new Kazon ships, I immediately thought of dwarves. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

The Sona are great work as always. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

I now have enough ships to make the set. This includes carriers, transports, bases, ships, and other.

Here are four more designs.

http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/k5.PNG http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/k6.PNG http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/k7.PNG http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/k8.PNG

Dreadnought, Battleship, Baseship, Starbase

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Like them. Look dangerous and creative.

[Atrocities]

Thank you Narf. To be honest this has been one of the hardest sets to redo. The vulcans are now proving near impossible so I am about to throw in the towl for the night.

I figured the Son'a would be the most difficult, but I nailed them right off. That surprised me so I figured the Kazon would be easy. Boy was I wrong. At least they are done now.

The Vulcans are literally waring me out. So I am going to bag it for tonight and try again tomorrow. Most likely will keep current Vulcan set, just re-render them.

[Captain Kwok]

The Kazon and Son'a ships are nice.

[XenoTheMorph]

I've been playing the Mod (v1.9.0.1) and I've noticed a few things -

The Phased Energy Cannon I-II have different costs to III-V
For I-II Min:100/120, Org:0/0, Rad:25/25
For III-V Min:25, Org:25, Rad:25 ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Considering how much better they are than the Lasers (even with the ship mount) I'd propose -
III Min:140, Org:0, Rad:30
IV Min:160, Org:0, Rad:30
V Min:180, Org:0, Rad:35

Also you might want to increse the base Laser damage so that they are closer to the PEC damage (especially for the Mounted Version).
ATM they are purely a (V) poor mans PEC. (Well at low levels I-II the Mounted Laser has a slight range advantage, maybe increase this instead?)



Another thing I noticed was the Combat speed (Cm) of the ships. (I take it the second possible impulse engine is just a spare &amp; the best per Kt supply store?)
Take Level I propulsion componets on an escort -

a) Warp core (bonus +1Mv) + Impulse engine\s (+3Cm) + 2 Nacelles (1Mv, +2Cm)
HAS 4Cm (1Cm from the 2Mv? + 3Cm from Impulse only?)

b) Warp core (bonus +1Mv) + Impulse engine\s (+3Cm)
HAS 3Cm (0Cm from the 1BonusOnlyMv? + 3Cm from Impulse)

c) Warp core (bonus +1Mv) + 2 Nacelles (1Mv, +2Cm)
HAS 3Cm (1Cm from the 2Mv? + 2Cm from Nacelles)

It just does not seem to work out? Do the Cm from Nacelles and Impulse engines stack? I really don't know! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
Can somebody clear up how the Cm work in this case please. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

*** Oh and as always Atrocities great ship sets! The Kazon actually look like Kazon ships! That *is* impressive. ***

[Ragnarok-X]

Atrocities, great work with the kazon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif They look just like i wanted them to look. Just a minor suggestion though: Please make the connection zones around the starbase smaller and increase the ammount to 5 (in a pentagramm manner if you know what i mean -&gt; just like a 5 sided star)

great work !!

[Atrocities]

Ragnarok-X said:
Atrocities, great work with the kazon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif They look just like i wanted them to look. Just a minor suggestion though: Please make the connection zones around the starbase smaller and increase the ammount to 5 (in a pentagramm manner if you know what i mean -&gt; just like a 5 sided star)

great work !!



I have already completed the set. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif But when I have time will make the alteration to the SB for you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Thanks for the feed back. Its too early in the morning for me to be thinking clearly so give me some time to digest what you have posted and get the old synapsis firing again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Ok, so what your saying is that the impulse engines are not stacking to give the full combat moves? If this is the case then yes something will be done.

About the PEC and the LAS. The PEC is more accurate and is a heavy hitter on its own. The LAS is less powerful, less accurate, but has a longer range. The cost should be consistant throughout and if not it will be fixed.

Thank you for your feed back. I will post more later.

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok said:
The Kazon and Son'a ships are nice.



Thank you CK, and thank you all for your comments on the Kazon.

I am setting up the ship designs now, man was an interesting process. Trial and error and a lot of luck. How long did it take you to set up your SPE mod ship designs?

[Atrocities]

New Kazon ship set uploaded to www.pbw.cc (http://www.pbw.cc) Star Trek Kazon II V1.2 Gold N

The N stands for New, but the ew was cut off.

The new Version will also be in the next update witch should be ready by this weekend if all goes well.

[Captain Kwok]

Atrocities said:How long did it take you to set up your SPE mod ship designs?

I've only put a few designs together for testing different items.

[Atrocities]

<font color="brown"> UPDATE </font>
There will be a new update available in about an hour. A bug was discovered in the data files that effected a few components. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Atrocities]

<font color="red"> 11-22-2004 UPDATE</font>
STM v1.9.0.2 With Intro 5.0 megs (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=313001)
STM v1.9.0.2 Without Intro 2.5 megs (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=313002)
STM v1.9.0.2 Data and Ai files only. No images 500k (http://www.astmod.com/zips/stm/STM1902DATAUD.zip)

This update address a major bug found in the component file. This may effect save games. So apply only if you are prepared for this.


Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.2

1. Fixed Spacing error in Data file (MAY EFFECT SAVE GAMES)
2. Changed ECM I - V levels to 6, 8, 10, 12, 14%
3. Changed Combat Sensors I - V to 10, 12, 14, 16, 18%
4. Changed Sensor Aaray I - III for all races to 6, 12, 16%
5. Added New Kazon ship set
6. Added New Son'a ship set



The update had to be released before it was fully ready, so the updated AI was not included. That will be released in a later update.

If a bug is found that will dramatically effect game play, then an update will be released as soon as possible. No update is planned for release until the new AI Design Creation files are ready. Expect the next update, barring any major bug fixing updates, to be released by christmas.

[Kana]

Hey Atrocities,

Have you considered using any of these images for component pics and such?

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/interiors1.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/bridges1.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery.htm


The Star Trek Fact Files, and the Star Trek: The Magazine, would be a wonder find of Star Trek images for the ultimate Star Trek mod....

Kana

[Captain Kwok]

A number of those images are already included in the imageMod. I like the drawings themselves, but for the 36x36 mini pics they are hard to discern from one another.

[Kana]

I like them as well...I wish I could find another source for the others that would have been in the STFF, and the ST:TM. Since the are out of print, and not really enough of a fan to actually go out an aquire them, I tried scanning the net, and really didn't find anything of use...Maybe someone else would have more success.

Kana

[Atrocities]

Kana said:
Hey Atrocities,

Have you considered using any of these images for component pics and such?

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/interiors1.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/bridges1.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery.htm


The Star Trek Fact Files, and the Star Trek: The Magazine, would be a wonder find of Star Trek images for the ultimate Star Trek mod....

Kana



I have, but they are not mine, and I would hate to get sued.

[Phoenix-D]

Atrocities said:

Kana said:
Hey Atrocities,

Have you considered using any of these images for component pics and such?

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/interiors1.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery/bridges1.htm
http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/gallery.htm


The Star Trek Fact Files, and the Star Trek: The Magazine, would be a wonder find of Star Trek images for the ultimate Star Trek mod....

Kana



I have, but they are not mine, and I would hate to get sued.



You are aware that Paramount can nuke your mod any time you like, right? Using these images would give them more of a leg to stand on but not using them won't stop them.

[Atrocities]

Kana said:
I like them as well...I wish I could find another source for the others that would have been in the STFF, and the ST:TM. Since the are out of print, and not really enough of a fan to actually go out an aquire them, I tried scanning the net, and really didn't find anything of use...Maybe someone else would have more success.

Kana



These all came out of the Star Trek Magazine that is no longer in print. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[shino6]

Wonderful wonderful job on the mod!

I did a clean install of SE4 gold + patch + SE4 Companion + ST mod (and all files it asked for). Two questions:

Do I also need to install TDM for the enhanced AI routines or will the computer be a good opponent as is (setting at high difficulty with medium starting bonus)? I ask because of the first game I've tried: pre-loaded the starfleet map with 20 AI players and settings based on the .txt files. It took me a very long time to make first contact, and now that I've encountered most of the other races I've discovered I'm dramatically ahead of them tech-wise.

Also, is there an FAQ or some repository of suggestions re: the mod?

Thanks!

[mottlee]

FYI, Computer had issues with me so I fixed it good...however I can not now find my SEIV Gold CD to reinstall the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif SOoooo I had to drop out of my PBW too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[Onyx]

I would also like to add my congratulations to Atrocities and all involved in creating this outstanding mod.
I have been lurking here for a while but I had to say thanks now that I've actually played it.
I actually bought SE4 to play this mod (and the B5 one but that doesnt seem to be finished and it will take me a while to learn how to edit it).
I also have a few comments aswell.
I too noticed the AI ship design problems. A quick search of the earlier Posts in this thread showed me that Captain Kwok had already made mention of them and that possible solutions were on the way. I can wait. I'm really enjoying getting to know the game now anyway.
I noticed that there are a few scenarios about for the original game but I cant seem to find out how to make one. I have figured out the map editor but it would be alot of fun to populate a map with colonies and fleets and jump straight into game. Is this possible?
Sorry for being off topic but does anyone here know if the B5 mod will ever be finished properly?
Anyway, thanks again and keep up the excellent work.

[Captain Kwok]

I suspect the AI is having trouble expanding due to the supply settings, so that may explain why it is lacking.

[Fyron]

Onyx said:
I noticed that there are a few scenarios about for the original game but I cant seem to find out how to make one. I have figured out the map editor but it would be alot of fun to populate a map with colonies and fleets and jump straight into game. Is this possible?

You have to play as all of the empires and have each build what you want it to have at the start of the scenario. To do this, click on the Players button in the main options menu after starting the game, and toggle off AI control for all empires. Make sure to turn off any AI ministers in Ministers window, accessible from the Empire Status screen, in the mean time. After all of the empires are set up as you would like them, all of the empires that should be AI controlled back to AI control, and save it.


Sorry for being off topic but does anyone here know if the B5 mod will ever be finished properly?

There is a recent thread about some people possibly resuming work on it. It should be on the first page or two of threads...

[Atrocities]

Thank you for the comments. I do appreciate it but would also like to say that there were many people who have contributed to this mod and they too equally deserve credit. I tried to keep track of all of the people who helped, but Kwok, Aiken, Fyron, TNZ, and a many more come right to mind.

The supply issue as well as the design issue are top priority for me right now. I am working with Captain Kwoks recommendations and hope to have another update out by christmas. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

In the mean time please keep the bug reports, suggestions, and comments comming.

Thank you.

[Ed Kolis]

Say, this is a minor issue, but how about making SM components (except the ring/sphereworld constructors) mountable only on ships, since they can only be used by expending movement points?

Also, I believe the Romulan PDC has the same image as the Tholian Cascade weapon, or maybe the Cardassian Compressor Beam.

[Captain Kwok]

Atrocities just take your time with this patch. Let the current Version mature and have players collect e-mail or post about bugs.

[Atrocities]

Ed Kolis said:


Also, I believe the Romulan PDC has the same image as the Tholian Cascade weapon, or maybe the Cardassian Compressor Beam.



Some of the images are shared between the races. But thanks for pointing it out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Atrocities]

Here is an update thus far on the next patch. I hope that these tweaks will help improve the range and effect of the AI ships.

I am still working on the AI design creation file, and was wondering if someone could look at the other AI construction files and offer any suggestions. IE the Facility file. Thanks.


Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.3

1. Changed Min,Org,Rad cost for Phased Energy Cannon III - V. (Went with XenoTheMorph Suggestions)
2. Fixed Typo - error - in Phased Energy Cannon V.
3. Changed Increased the Range Modifier for Laser Mount from 1 to 2.
4. Changed Romulan Defense Cannon I - V Pic Num to 1392
5. Changed Increased Supply Storage Ability for Warp Core I - X by 200 for each level
6. Changed Increased Supply Storage Ability for Quantum Singularity Drive I - X by 200 for each level
7. Changed Increased Supply Storage Ability for Borg Warp Drive I - X by 200 for each level.
8. Changed Increased Supply Storage Ability for Transwarp Drive I - III by 200 for each level.
9. Changed Increased Supply Storage Abiltiy for Organic Drive I - X by 200 for each level.
10. Changed Increased Supply Storage Abiltiy for Organic Hyper Drive I - X by 200 for each level.
11. Changed Increases Supply Storage Ability for Impulse Engine I - V (750,800,850,900,950)

[Atrocities]

I am going to be honest. This design Creation file is kicking my butt. This is going to take some serius time to hash out and optimize.

[XenoTheMorph]

Atrocities I'm with Kwok on this -

Take Your Time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/stupid.gif

Don't let yourself lose it by doing to much wearing stuff in to short a time!

(Hey if some of the tasks are overly repetative, just do a 'guide/example' to the changes and you might be able to get some stooges from around here to do some! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

[Atrocities]

I have no plans on rushing it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Colonel]

Dont know if this has been mentioned but on the Borg fighter design thingy you have the small borg shield depleter on there twice....

[Atrocities]

Colonel said:
Dont know if this has been mentioned but on the Borg fighter design thingy you have the small borg shield depleter on there twice....



Hummm, will look into it. Thanks.

[Atrocities]

Here are two designs that I think look good. The first is a destroyer, the second is the same destroyer but using the armor ability over the AI tag. The third is a light cruiser design.

http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/design1.PNG
http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/design1a.PNG
http://www.astmod.com/startrek/stmimages/design2.PNG

[Atrocities]

Well I have been at this for several hours now. I am afraid that no matter what I do at some point the AI will add more than one Scattering Armor to its designs but then later redsign to only have one. It is a BUG with SEIV I am afraid.

[Atrocities]

We really need Aaron to put out one more patch that fixes this bug. When it states ONE PER VEHCILE, then the AI should only add ONE period.

[[CDN]Steel_Ice]

Firstly I would like to say I LOVE the mod, its very different and refreshing to play! And it gives a definate star trek feeling http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

My question is, I have V 1.9.0.0 and I have a good game going and don't want to lose it. Do either of the two newer patches affect saved games badly? I know 1.9.0.2 can, but what about 1.9.0.1?

Also another question, ive noticed my ships are pretty much invincible. Im federation and I have ablative armor 3, and shield gen VII (at this point) and in battle if the sheids are penetrated then I get either no damage or "reverse damage" and I dont mean that the sheilds are replenished but that if I get any actual hull damaged it is reversed when my ship takes another hit, is this intended or is it a bug?

Thanks

[Atrocities]

Version 1.9.0.2 does effect saved games. Because of an error in the data files when a player updates their designs will be devalidated. What I mean by this is that the components they have chosen for the design, will be off by one.

In the latest Version I have cut the hit/miss values for the ships down by half thus balancing out some of these issues.

Do this to get effective weapons - Research Beam tech to level 5. Then research Advanced Physics. Then research your races Energy weapons to level 10.

Also research torpedo weapons. They are less accurate but have a higher yield and range later on.

Shields are good, but there are shield depleting weapons that will hurt them bad. Also consider using engine damaging weapons on your designs.

Remember the order in which you put weapons on your designs dictate their firing order as well.

[Atrocities]

Here is the latest update on what I have done thus far.



Star Trek Mod v1.9.0.3

1. Changed Min,Org,Rad cost for Phased Energy Cannon III - V. (Went with XenoTheMorph Suggestions)
2. Fixed Typo - error - in Phased Energy Cannon V.
3. Changed Increased the Range Modifier for Laser Mount from 1 to 2.
4. Changed Romulan Defense Cannon I - V Pic Num to 1392
5. Changed Increased Supply Storage Ability for Warp Core I - X by 200 for each level
6. Changed Increased Supply Storage Ability for Quantum Singularity Drive I - X by 200 for each level
7. Changed Increased Supply Storage Ability for Borg Warp Drive I - X by 200 for each level.
8. Changed Increased Supply Storage Ability for Transwarp Drive I - III by 200 for each level.
9. Changed Increased Supply Storage Abiltiy for Organic Drive I - X by 200 for each level.
10. Changed Increased Supply Storage Abiltiy for Organic Hyper Drive I - X by 200 for each level.
11. Changed Increases Supply Storage Ability for Impulse Engine I - V (750,800,850,900,950)
12. Added Two Per Vehicle restriction on Damage Control I - III
13. Changed Modified all races Desgin Creation files (Thank You Captain Kwok) *STILL WORKING ON THIS ONE*
14. Changed Made all ship primary "resource" cost equal to KT size of ship in vehicle size file.
15. Changed Reduced by half most ship combat defense % ability. (Tholians remained the same)
16. Changed Increased Supply Ability from 500 to 1000 for all colony Modules
17. Changed Revised Research files slightly

[Fyron]

[CDN]Steel_Ice said:
...in battle if the sheids are penetrated then I get either no damage or "reverse damage" and I dont mean that the sheilds are replenished but that if I get any actual hull damaged it is reversed when my ship takes another hit, is this intended or is it a bug?

This is intended. It is how the crystalline armor ability (Shield Generation From Damage) ability functions. This ability is the key feature of a "leaky shielding" system, where the goal of shielding is not to provide a magic wall that offers 100% protection until the moment that the shield level hits 0, then nothing at all, as in stock SE4. Instead, the shielding has the overall net affect of allowing some shots to damage the ship, but others will be stopped. Thus, some damage "leaks" through, in classic Star Trek style. The only way to do this in SE4 is to use the crystalline armor ability, which functions precisely as you have seen it function. It causes shield points to be added to the shield layer for each point of damage done to the hull, up to the maximum allowed by the ability levels of your armor/shields/whatever.

Unfortunately, partial damage is not stored on a per component basis. Instead, any remaining damage (that was not enough to destroy an entire component) is added to the next incoming shot. Normally, this process is not really visible. Each shot just damages more components. It does not make much difference overall that that extra 5 damage points are added to the incoming 65, since it will all end up doing the same sort of damage to the ship anyways. Note that this can cause some odd effects with special damage weapons. If you had, say, 20 points of partial damage remaining from an Anti-Proton Beam hit, and the next hit is with an Ionic Disperser (engine damaging), then that 20 points of partial damage are transformed into engine damage, adding directly to the damage of the ID. This can either cause the ID to destroy more engines than it normally would, or it can cause that 20 stored partial damage from the APB to be lost (special damage weapons, which damage only a specific type of component, do not accumulate partial damages; they either destroy an entire component (or more), or do nothing). But I digress...

With Shield Generation From Damage components in play, the stored partial damage must get through the shield layer again (as the shot that created that partial damage also resulted in the generation of shield points). Against crystalline armored/leaky shield protected ships, damage per shot becomes very, very important. You have to be able to destroy whole components in a single shot, else you won't get anywhere very fast...

[Atrocities]

Thank you Fryon for the info. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[TNZ]

Atrocities, try this out it appear to workhttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/download.php?Number=313888

[Atrocities]

Thanks TNZ. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I am in the middle of a test game now.

[[CDN]Steel_Ice]

Thank you guys for the info, that makes sense http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. So Atrocities I take it 1.9.0.1 shouldent affect my saved game bad then? For 1.9.0.2 I think I can add the changes myself apart from the spacing fix.

[Atrocities]

They both will I am sorry to say. Just in the ship design areas. Most inconvient, but easy to over come by editing your designs.