Bug Thread: Discussion

[LDiCesare]

I think this falls under the GUI Numeric Keypad Numeric keypad arrows seem to have stopped working in 3.06 (they no longer scroll the map for example). They worked fine in 3.04. bug report. It's impossible for me to usee pgup/pgdown from the numpad. Too bad I don't have pgup/pgdown except on the numpad on this laptop.
I also discovered that mid mouse button could let me scroll in the 3D battle view, but it's easy to crash the game if abusing it (driver problem).

[zzcat]

I don't know if it's a bug but Sequani stargazer(EA Marverni, unit id 1225) has basic encumbrance 7, it's far too high for a human caster. Perhaps it should be 3 or 4?

[archaeolept]

random event: "The tomb of an ancient priest-king was discovered., 1000 pounds of gold and a magic item were discovered."

only yields 500 gold... unless there are 2 lbs to the gold piece, it's a small bug.

[Bananadine]

SEVERAL BUGS:

When a random plague happens in some province it says empty cabins and rotting corpses litter the landscape. # of corpses in the province immediately thereafter: 0

A death mage raising soulless during a battle for R'lyeh, where 24,000 (presumably amphibious and aquatic) peasants have died, produces mostly undead humans.

A star of thraldom can trap its wielder in false fetters.

Twiceborn doesn't work when a unit dies by fleeing from a horror attack occurring due to Astral Corruption. (This is a version of a bug already present in the shortlist, and may have the same cause as that one.)

[Bananadine]

vfb:

I have seen PD commander with global enchantment tag recently...

Hey, I saw that too. Except I think the one I saw wasn't even a commander.

I'd send in the .trn, but I didn't keep track of which unit it was, and he would be difficult to find again....

[Edi]

SEVERAL BUGS:

When a random plague happens in some province it says empty cabins and rotting corpses litter the landscape. # of corpses in the province immediately thereafter: 0

A death mage raising soulless during a battle for R'lyeh, where 24,000 (presumably amphibious and aquatic) peasants have died, produces mostly undead humans.

A star of thraldom can trap its wielder in false fetters.

Twiceborn doesn't work when a unit dies by fleeing from a horror attack occurring due to Astral Corruption. (This is a version of a bug already present in the shortlist, and may have the same cause as that one.)
- Plague event: Annoying, though at the end a minor issue. I'll add that

- Animate Dead works off some hardcoded lists, there is no bug there

- Star of Thraldom works precisely as intended, not a bug

- Twiceborn: Noted, the spell has a lot of problems with triggering in special cases.

[Bananadine]

- Animate Dead works off some hardcoded lists, there is no bug there

It makes no sense for mostly undead humans to be raised by an Atlantian necromancer in a place where almost everybody who ever died was an Atlantian, a triton, or a merman. I know the game has some flexibility in this regard--I've seen a mage of Hinnom raise a longdead Rephaite, and mages of C'tis can raise longdead lizardmen, etc. It seems that the intention of the designers is to let mages raise mostly humans, plus a few of the creatures that died in their nations. But where do the mages get all these human skeletons, in places where humans never lived? Does each necromancer secretly carry dozens of skeletons with him? It makes more sense to raise creatures that died in the necromancer's present location. That would match the player's expectation (I think), and strengthen the game's fiction. If the current implementation of this uses hardcoded lists to do something that distinctly violates expectation and clearly breaks the fiction without providing any particular advantage to gameplay, then the current implementation has a bug in it--in its design, if not in its program code. (I wouldn't say it's the most urgent of bugs, though.)

[vfb]

So if you are Atlantis and you've conquered a Caelum province deep in the mountains one month ago by teleporting in some S2s, and then the next month hundred of peasants die and you raise them up ... what race are they?

[thejeff]

Mostly human, with some Atlantians. Makes no sense.
Don't look to deeply into the poptypes.

Abyssia Blood hunting in a lizard province finds human slaves. That makes no more sense.

Just accept it and move on.

[Bananadine]

Ideally, the game would maintain a census for each province, representing counts of peasants, creatures that died there during play, and creatures that died long before the game started, sorted by race. It's never been clear to me who exactly is supposed to live in a province--does Caelum's home province contain 30,000 birdmen, while a province one step away contains 10,000 humans? Once Caelum conquers the human province, does that province start to fill with birdmen? The developers would have to make a decision here, in order to let the program maintain its census. But they could do that without too much trouble, and actually adding the feature wouldn't be a huge effort, assuming the program is well-factored to start with.

Just accept it and move on.

Yes, yes, I gather that this program isn't so well-factored as assumed above; also, according to my understanding, the developers are few and busy, and there are lots of other bugs. So what I am saying is that I want to have this listed as a bug... and THEN accept it and move on. :)

Our talk of Caelum and Abysia and major new program systems glosses over the fact that the worst aspect of this problem could be fixed much more easily than the entire problem could be. Here's the worst aspect, as I see it: Raising dead underwater produces mostly humans. It's conceivable that all they'd have to do to fix that is add one little clause that checks whether the caster's province is underwater, and if it is, produce mostly Atlantians or some new kind of undead mermen or something.

It's also conceivable that, due to duplication in the existing code, even this fix would be rather difficult. But that's for somebody who knows the code to decide. I'm just here to talk about bugs!

...Oh and blood slaves are humans, yes--that bothers me too, but it's a separate issue. :)

[Bananadine]

(Also, the blood slaves thing is much less mechanically significant. An Atlantian longdead warrior has poisonous Atlantian equipment, which is quite different from what a human longdead warrior has. Once in a great while, that could make the difference between a supercombatant pretender god's survival, and its death! Blood slaves, on the other hand, don't really attack and have no armor, so making them lizardmen or birdmen or whatever wouldn't make much difference.)

[Micah]

Lizard blood slaves with some natural prot and better HP would be a pretty awesome upgrade, actually. And I can't imagine longdead coral still being poisonous...I would think that the poison would decompose or become inert fairly quickly if it wasn't maintained.

[vfb]

Nitpick: it's soulless Atlantian warriors who have poison armor, not longdead.

And humans are everywhere, just like cockroaches. That's why they win in the end. They are in the Abysian deserts, living off of tumbleweeds and sand. They are in the swamps of C'tis, getting sick and dying, but still managing to breed prodigiously. They are in snow caves in the Niefel hinterlands, sucking on icicles and eating boiled tree bark.

In fact, there are so many damn humans that if you raise dead in the water, you mostly get a bunch of human zombies that fell off a boat or something.

Seriously, poptypes do not make much sense, like thejeff says. I don't even think you can even call it a design flaw, because rather than design some complicated population simulator (can the same land support an equivalent number of giants as humans, and why don't Ancient Ones have sex more often, and if you have one peasant and an iron mine how can you hire ten horsemen) they chose to make population mostly generic. "Raise Dead" says it raises soulless, and it does, so it's working as designed. IMO.

[Bananadine]

I maintain that majority-human undead in the water is a bug, whether in the design or in the implementation, and agree with you about everything else.

[chrispedersen]

Perhaps the human in Raise (Human) dead is merely understood =)

[Illuminated One]

It's perfectly fine. You don't find many dead fish on the ozean floor, they all float to the top.


(Although I really agree, it would be nice to have the right dead for the right pop, I would just base it on starting indies, but there's more important things)

[Squirrelloid]

Ok, so i think this goes here since its a typo in the unit name rather than a description.

Pretender Son of Fenrir misspelled as Son of Fenrer in unit name. (Description gets it right). Sadly, I don't have the unit ID and the game is not currently in front of me (noticed this last night).

[Kirill]

Limits are in the FAQ. Unlimited is not possible, so just don't include the freespawn nations (LA Ermor and R'lyeh).

where i can see that faq?

[WingedDog]

I've been playing with MA Ermor lately and noticed undead units having "Never Heals" icon do not regain hitpoints in the province with a lab, while they should according to the icon description.

[Micah]

I don't think any of Ermor's non-healing undead are magic, are they?

[WingedDog]

Oh, right, silly me. :p

[Edi]

Limits are in the FAQ. Unlimited is not possible, so just don't include the freespawn nations (LA Ermor and R'lyeh).

where i can see that faq?
Sticky thread at the top of the forum.

[zzcat]

Received a "unexplainable increase of income" message when playing as Patala in Zerba @ turn 15. All .trn & .2h files are availiable if needed.

[Frozen Lama]

In one of my games i have a bane lord equipped with a thunder bow. it also says he has a bane blade. not sure if its purley a text error or if he can actually attack with it, but the bow is a 2h weapon regardless. i can't remember how to take a screenshot, but if someone tells me, i could post one.

[Squirrelloid]

In one of my games i have a bane lord equipped with a thunder bow. it also says he has a bane blade. not sure if its purley a text error or if he can actually attack with it, but the bow is a 2h weapon regardless. i can't remember how to take a screenshot, but if someone tells me, i could post one.

I think ranged weapons are supposed to be alternatives to melee weapons, not replacements? I mean, Shinuyama's Dai-bakemono archers have a 2H sword and a longbow, but obviously don't have four arms.

[Edi]

Ranged weapon 2H-items don't replace native weapons.

[AreaOfEffect]

Ranged weapon 2H-items don't replace native weapons.

They will however remove native shields, which is likely intended.

[zlefin]

bloodsacrifice giving two temple checks per slave sacrificed, is this a bug or wai? manual says one check per slave, but manual isn't so accurate on dominion.
If it's a bug, it makes a rather large difference to the strength of a bloodsac push. If not, well, then that'd be good to know, as two checks/slave can mean an awful lot of checks, and it's a good detail to know.
Zlefin :)
PS this comes up cuz i've twice won blitzes as abysia with awake fountain of blood + dompush. the first time i think i won without anyone getting to attack me, they didn't realize until too late, and even mass preaching coudln't stop it. and the farther guys have aways to walk, and attacking aby ain't easy early game. second time the guy had 15 temples and lotsa preaching and still coudln't stop the tide of dom.

[Squirrelloid]

Ok, so i think this goes here since its a typo in the unit name rather than a description.

Pretender Son of Fenrir misspelled as Son of Fenrer in unit name. (Description gets it right). Sadly, I don't have the unit ID and the game is not currently in front of me (noticed this last night).

while i'm remembering:

Monster Number 1229
Son of Fenrer should be Son of Fenrir. Unit description spells it right, but unit name is wrong.

[Bananadine]

These seem so basic that they've probably been brought up already, but it's pretty hard to search big forum threads soooo:

A non-stealthy commander can use the Black Heart to assassinate foes from inside a besieged fortress. I don't know whether this unbalances the game, but it certainly contradicts the description of that item, and it doesn't make much sense. How would somebody sneak up on an enemy commander, from the other side of a giant wall, without stealth?

A scout that's defending (rather than hiding) within a besieged fortress seemingly can't be given the order to hide.

[Edi]

The scout not being able to hide under siege is WAD.

The black heart not so much so, but it's an unintended consequence. Normally non-stealth units cannot be in a province under enemy control. A siege is an exception, since the province is contested. And assassination requires being present in a province controlled by the enemy.

So in a way it is WAD because I don't see any way to close that loophole unless units with assassination are required to have stealth the same way you can't mod units with holy magic unless they also have the sacred tag.

[Micah]

It's really WAD that a stealth unit can't hide in the province they're in, but they can sneak out to a different province entirely, while at the same time units can remain hidden or sneak into the sieged province from other provinces?

I don't understand why the single stealth order (hide without moving) is disabled while all the rest still work. Just curious what the reasoning is on it.

[Bananadine]

The inability to hide was actually a problem for me in a multiplayer game, incidentally--I'd intended to scuttle a besieged fortress by telling the researchers there to flee and leaving only one scout there, holding a bane venom charm. But my scout could not hide, so I made him sneak the charm into another province instead.

Of course, now that I know about this limitation, it probably won't ever significantly trouble me again. It's not hard to work around.

So in a way it is WAD because I don't see any way to close that loophole unless units with assassination are required to have stealth the same way you can't mod units with holy magic unless they also have the sacred tag.

Hm well that sounds fine! Wouldn't that be fine? I mean, assuming as always that it's trivial to implement the change, which it presumably (as nearly always) is really not.

When would it make sense, fictionally, for a non-stealthy assassin to exist? I can imagine there being a sort of "defensive turret" unit that would have the assassin ability (without help from magical items), due to its possession of an extremely long-range sniping weapon, like maybe a bow that fired Seeking Arrows. ...Except then it would be hard to justify actually putting the unit on the battlefield during an assassination attempt, because it would be firing from inside the fortress. Hm okay that makes no sense after all.

Well, what about some kind of a "monster of the castle" that could magically hunt down any prey it chose... but only when it began within its home and power source, the fortress? Haha magic justifies anything. I think that could work!

I'm just playing around with these ideas, you understand. This message is not a bug report (or a feature request). :)

[zzcat]

Creatures with 2nd shape are immune to Beckoning. But the spell description says its target "have a chance of disappearing forever into the forest" so they should just disappear regardless how many shapes they have...

[vfb]

You sure you didn't try it on a bunch of units with forest survival? Like skinshifters or jag warriors?

[zzcat]

I tried it with 100 hydra hatchlings. None of them were killed but some unit got afflictions anyway.

You sure you didn't try it on a bunch of units with forest survival? Like skinshifters or jag warriors?

[Calahan]

Is it WAD that you are allowed to cast Crumble on your own forts?

I know the Crumble spell itself is already broken, but if it is ever fixed, it might be worth adding a restriction for it to be un-castable on your own provinces. As I can not see how casting Crumble on yourself could ever have any benefit, and the only purpose it could possibly serve is to allow forts to be more easily gifted to another player. And this only opens up a huge cans of worms, as recently witnessed in a MP game.

[vfb]

Naiads (U1226) are supposed to lose HP and eventually die if they live in a province other than where they were summoned. They continue to lose 1HP per turn if you just give them a regen item. But if you give them a regen item and a fever fetish, they no longer lose 1HP per month.

[K]

Naiads (U1226) are supposed to lose HP and eventually die if they live in a province other than where they were summoned. They continue to lose 1HP per turn if you just give them a regen item. But if you give them a regen item and a fever fetish, they no longer lose 1HP per month.

That's weird and awesome.

[Bananadine]

Queen of the Sea has 100% darkvision--even more than is possessed by most Atlantians, who are supposed to live in the deeps--but Queen of the Deeps has no darkvision at all. I think there's a bug in there somewhere.

Misleading wording bug: Water queens are described as having 100% regeneration underwater--"she will heal all her wounds"--but they actually have 50-90% regeneration. One might change the aforementioned phrase to "she will most likely heal all her wounds"; that would be correct, I think....

[AreaOfEffect]

Misleading wording bug: Water queens are described as having 100% regeneration underwater--"she will heal all her wounds"--but they actually have 50-90% regeneration. One might change the aforementioned phrase to "she will most likely heal all her wounds"; that would be correct, I think....

I think the wording is fine. 50% regeneration is huge and it really doesn't matter to me if it takes one round or two for her to recover all damage, its enough to warrant such a claim.

[Stormboy]

Minor bug: I have a Belgian keyboard with AZERTY layout. When I switch from windowed mode to full screen mode (or the other way round), the keyboard switches to a standard QWERTY layout. This only lasts for the duration of the current playing session. Once I've closed the game and restarted it, all subsequent games are again played with the correct AZERTY layout (until I switch modes again...).

[AreaOfEffect]

(or the other way round)

'Or' as in your not sure which one does it, or 'Or' as in switching in either direction will yield the same bug?

[Edi]

The descriptions are mostly unaltered from Dom2, where it did work that way. The darkvision thing does seem like a bug.

[Stormboy]

(or the other way round)

'Or' as in your not sure which one does it, or 'Or' as in switching in either direction will yield the same bug?


'Or' as in switching in either direction will yield the same bug.

[lch]

As EA Agartha, you can recruit Wet Ones in underwater forts. The units displayed for recruitment are the landshape version of the unarmored Wet One (1489), though, instead of the swimming underwater version (1491). As for the armored Wet One variants (1635/1636), those are correct in the sense that the recruitment roster shows them as swimming.

[zzcat]

An intresting bug: Rat tail actcally BOOST enemy's moral instead of reduce it. In attached turn file, The Adon's moral is raised to 74(!) when he get whiped:shock:

BTW: I found "The field of hippocampoi" in a mountain province but when I send a water mage to enter site nothing is summoned. Considering hippocampus is underwater only, perhaps the site get a wrong sitemask.

[Illuminated One]

Wow, that's a great discovery!
It's actually quite useful because you can't kill a sc that runs away.

[AreaOfEffect]

Not that useful. SCs will run away at 1/4 health if they can, regardless of moral. Immortal commanders in their own dominion, and some specially tagged units (a.k.a. horrors) fight till the end.

If you really want SCs to stick around, have a nature mage cast stream of life. If they succeed at not dying they'll still go berserk.

[Illuminated One]

But wouldn't a morale over 50 make him mindless in any case?
But still thanks, now finally I know what that spell is good for.

[Zeldor]

Wishing for Abductor [Niefel hero] makes him come in his 2nd form [Great Eagle] and after GoR he is pathless. So it may concern other multi-form commanders.

[vfb]

An intresting bug: Rat tail actcally BOOST enemy's moral instead of reduce it. In attached turn file, The Adon's moral is raised to 74(!) when he get whiped:shock:

BTW: I found "The field of hippocampoi" in a mountain province but when I send a water mage to enter site nothing is summoned. Considering hippocampus is underwater only, perhaps the site get a wrong sitemask.

Interesting bug. The problem isn't so much the Rat Tail itself. From looking at the debug output, you can see that a shield hit occurs, and the resulting 40 protection is subtracted from the Greater Fear damage. A check for negative Greater Fear damage is not made prior to modifying morale.

Trying to strike agains Awe 1 (mor 23)
2341 striking with weapon Rat Tail. att25 def28
shieldprot for Adon = 40
hitloc Jotun Werewolf strikes Adon wl5 diff-3 -> 3
hitunit 2341 2402 dmg-31 spec0 ba3
shieldprot for Adon = 40
hitloc Jotun Werewolf strikes Adon wl0 diff1 -> 2
hitunit 2341 2402 dmg-30 spec128 ba2
2341 striking with weapon Greater Fear. att22 def24
shieldprot for Adon = 40
hitloc Jotun Werewolf strikes Adon wl0 diff1 -> 2
hitunit 2341 2402 dmg-30 spec128 ba2

[zzcat]

IMO it should be AN. It's quite ridiculous that a mind effect can be blocked by shield and armor...

[Edi]

Wishing for Abductor [Niefel hero] makes him come in his 2nd form [Great Eagle] and after GoR he is pathless. So it may concern other multi-form commanders.
Not a bug. The hero appears in his humanoid form when he appears as a regular hero and has all paths. Magic paths etc are attributes tied to the unique ID of the unit, so they follow along when you use the shapechange command, even though the shapechanged form has no inherent paths (like the Jotun skratti for another example). When you wish for the unit and you get the shapechanged form because of its lower monster number, GoRing will not give you the paths of the other form.

Same if you enslave a Jotun Skratti in wolf form, no magic when you GoR.

[John_Madlock]

What's going on with Blood Burst? If I script this, mages always cast Summon Imps, but previous in message on top screen is Blood Burst two times (without casting this).
It looks like that:
Xyz casts Blood Burst
Xyz casts Blood Burst
Xyz casts Summon Imp
All in one turn.

[John_Madlock]

I have reinstalled the newest patch and looks like it's OK now.

[Centuryslayer]

I have an interesting...bug, I guess we can call it. any version above 3.08, crashes by freezing when I press the end turn button and the game loads. ctrl+alt+delete and bringing up the task manager reveals that Dom3 is chugging system memory at 100% and it's not responding. this only happens with versions 3.14 to 3.23b.

anyone know what this might be?

[chrispedersen]

I had a problem with video drivers - I had to downgrade to an older one to make it work....

[Quitti]

Mine works fine with the latest drivers though. It might help if people knew what your gfx-card & OS is, Centuryslayer :)

[Centuryslayer]

Mine works fine with the latest drivers though. It might help if people knew what your gfx-card & OS is, Centuryslayer :)

oops, that's what I get for being in a hurry I suppose :doh:

windows XP (Service pack 2)
1,33 Ghz Processor
768 MB RAM
Connect 3D Radeon 9600 (gfx card)


also, a bit unrelated, I can't seem to join my own multiplayer games :confused:

[Bananadine]

A tupilak sent to assassinate an underwater commander appears in the form of a bear, even though the unit's description indicates that it can probably turn into an amphibious creature such as a seal. This bear-form tupilak survives underwater, even though it is neither an amphibian nor a poor amphibian. And it receives the underwater stats penalties! How sad for an Atlantian assassin!

I guess it could be that not every tupilak can turn into a seal; the description supports that idea. But in my experience EVERY tupilak has appeared as a bear, even though they're supposed to be able to turn into other things... I can't complain that they all choose to become bears to fight when they're on land, but surely an underwater bear is a bug!

[lch]

The following descriptions still include the wrong "Davana" name which was switched to "Danava" in version 3.23:

Units

Rakshasi
The Rakshasi is a female demon of Lanka. She appears as an ugly, monstrous crone with black skin and protruding tusks. The Rakshasi is skilled in sorcery and is able to change shape into an alluring redheaded Manushya Rakshasi. In Manushya shape the Rakshasi can only be revealed by her insatiable hunger. Rakshasis sometimes mate with prominent Bandar kings and give birth to dark skinned Kala-Mukhas. Rakshasis are descendants of the Davanas and Daityas of ancient times and are vulnerable to fire.
Manushya Rakshasi
The Rakshasi is a female demon of Lanka. She appears as an ugly, monstrous crone with black skin and protruding tusks. The Rakshasi is skilled in sorcery and is able to change shape into an alluring redheaded Manushya Rakshasi. In Manushya shape the Rakshasi can only be revealed by her insatiable hunger. Rakshasis sometimes mate with prominent Bandar kings and give birth to dark skinned Kala-Mukhas. Rakshasis are descendants of the Davanas and Daityas of ancient times and are vulnerable to fire.
Raksharaja
The Raksharaja is a Rakshasa King and ruler of the Lankan ogres. He appears as a monstrous ogre with the legs and horns of a bull and a massive ape-like body. He is a formidable warrior and powerful sorcerer as well as a leader of the Lankan Demon Cult. He has a ravenous appetite and feasts upon men and monkeys. Raksharajas are descendants of the Davanas and Daityas of ancient times and are vulnerable to fire.
Rakshasa
A black-skinned demon-ogre of the wild forests. It feasts on the flesh of monkeys and men and is greatly feared. Rakshasas have ravenous appetites and are best kept well fed. Most Rakshasas are found in the demon kingdom of Lanka, but some are summoned by unscrupulous monkey sorcerers. Rakshasa warriors use heavy cudgels and scale armor. Rakshasas are descendants of the Davanas and Daityas of ancient times and are vulnerable to fire.
Rakshasa Warrior
A black-skinned demon-ogre of the wild forests. It feasts on the flesh of monkeys and men and is greatly feared. Rakshasas have ravenous appetites and are best kept well fed. Most Rakshasas are found in the demon kingdom of Lanka, but some are summoned by unscrupulous monkey sorcerers. Rakshasa warriors use heavy cudgels and scale armor. Rakshasas are descendants of the Davanas and Daityas of ancient times and are vulnerable to fire.

Spells

Summon Davanas
Davanas are demon titans of ancient times. After the great wars with the Devatas of Kailasa, they were banished to the Nether Realms, where they made themselves kings. With this ritual they can be summoned to serve a new God on its path to ascendancy.

[sansanjuan]

Unsure if this is a bug but casting Iron Walls after the walls are damaged does not "help" the fortification unless I'm missing the timing.

Enemy moves on castle and brings it down from 200 to 75 (125 fortification beat down). I then cast iron walls but the castle is stormed next turn.
-ssj

[chrispedersen]

Its either WAD or already errata'd.

[Bananadine]

I've run into that problem too. It didn't make much sense to me, but it didn't quite feel like a bug. Presumably the solution is to cast the spell before the siege begins?

[Redeyes]

If it could be cast during a siege you could hypothetically get sieges of infinite length, though the scenario wouldn't be common.

[Bananadine]

If it could be cast during a siege you could hypothetically get sieges of infinite length, though the scenario wouldn't be common.

How? The spell runs out eventually, so infinite duration would require infinite gems.

Anyway, anything you could do during a siege (if it could be cast effectively during a siege) could also be done via a casting just before the siege, right?

It might be okay for a player with a billion gems to be difficult to defeat.

[Bananadine]

If it could be cast during a siege you could hypothetically get sieges of infinite length, though the scenario wouldn't be common.

How? The spell runs out eventually, so infinite duration would require infinite gems.

Oh, I see--Iron Walls would be cast once per X turns, and the siege force would have to have less than 200/X wall-destruction strength, or something like that. So the walls would always be slowly getting worse, but then they'd occasionally heal. And you could indeed save up infinite gems, if you had infinite time in which to do it.

[hoo]

Here's a rather semi-amusing bug.

Had 2 fights in 1 province. In first fight, I'm the attacker and obviously the victor.

In 2nd fight, I'm the defender. But in this fight, one of my mages Starts on the enemy side of the board. In the defender's first turn, he cast a spell. On the attacker's first turn, he rather quickly died.

Furthermore, after he died, even though he won, I didn't get his gear which kinda sucks.

I checked to see if he got taken over by the enemy but nope, he got blasted by them instead so he was still viewed as the enemy. However pre-fight and post-fight the comptuer treated him as my enemy by positioning him with the enemy troops and distributing his gear like an enemy mage.

[thejeff]

Was he counted in the summary report as yours or the enemys?

And can you learn anything looking at the debug log of the fight? I've never really looked at the positioning section, but I know it's there.

[hoo]

In the summary he was mine. So I'm not sure what when on with me not getting his gear and him on the enemy side of the map.

[chrispedersen]

I've seen this bug as well, 2-3 times.
But nothing recent. Are you on the current version?

[Gokufan1988]

In a recent MP game I cast Mother Oak and it never started working. There were 4 globals before and after I cast it. I got the message "So and so successfully cast Mother Oak" and the caster didn't die. I lost all the gems, but it never showed up on the global list or took effect.

[vfb]

Possible siege behavior bug:

If you are under siege, you can sneak out stealth units. This is not a bug. You cannot click the orders of the unit to change from "Sneak" to "Move (don't sneak)" to attack an adjacent province.

But if you Control-click, orders change from "Sneak" to "Move" and you can attack any province in range out of a besieged castle. Should you be able to do this?

[thejeff]

Well, it makes sense that if you can sneak out of the castle and into the other province, you could then attack it.

It's a little inconsistent that you can do it one way and not another.

[Omnirizon]

hell, I tried searching for my bug, and this thread comes up, but I don't get forwarded to the exact discussion to see if it is actually the bug I want to post.

So, I post anyway. Sorry if this is a repost.

When in windowed mode, the shift-key doesn't work (ie, can't make uppercase characters, etc). Even when returned back to fullscreen, the problem persists. Have to shut down Dominions, and relaunch to be able to use shift key again.

other keys (alt, cntrl, etc) may also be affected. I didn't test that much.

[vfb]

I had this problem when I had to play for a brief time in Windows (XP I think). I fixed it by turning on the "Handicapped" (or whatever -- can't remember exactly what it's called) option that lets you press the Shift key, release it, then press the key you want to capitalize.

[Loren]

I have never seen this but I have seen a related bug in Windows that might possibly be responsible.

This bug was all over the place in Windows 98. I have never caught it happening in XP so I don't know if it was fixed or not.

Under 98 at least the system would lose actions involving the special keys (ctrl, alt & shift) that happened during a video mode change, including into/out-of a DirectX game even if the screen size remained the same. (Whether it lost others or not I don't know, it was only these that were apparent as they have meaning while held down rather than when pressed.)

The result would be that the system would believe the key was in a different state than it was and do all sorts of evil to what you typed until you figured it out. Note that the left and right keys are separate as far as this bug is concerned. Thus if you get the right shift stuck down you can bang the left shift until the sun goes old and it won't help. Hit the right shift once and the problem is fixed.

It happened to me enough that my immediate response to wonky keys is to press all 6 special keys.

[Squirrelloid]

Weird bug:
Admiral Torgrin attacks my province. I kill the armada, but one of my non-PD commanders who happened to be there runs away.

In the turn the battle was in my messages, I go to look for the commander and the commander has totally disappeared (not in any surrounding provinces). I use 'n' to try to find them with next commander - no luck. I use F1 to look through my commanders to find them (no luck). They are simply not there.

The turn following that the commander has reappeared in a valid province that they could have retreated to.

So, where did they go for one turn? And wha...huh?

[Trumanator]

Was the commander stealthy? I've had that happen with Skaven a lot. I get defeated, all my troops and commanders dissapear, then reappear the next turn in valid retreat provs.

[Squirrelloid]

Was the commander stealthy? I've had that happen with Skaven a lot. I get defeated, all my troops and commanders dissapear, then reappear the next turn in valid retreat provs.

Not stealthy.

[Squirrelloid]

Strange Rlyeh 'bug'?...

If an illithid loses an arm it loses its life drain attack... I thought that involved its tentacles - you know, on its face. How is that a 2-H weapon? Even if it involves the hand, why does it require both of them? Weapon number 63.

(Edi's DB lists it as not a 2H weapon, fwiw, so losing an arm should not cause it to be lost).

[Sombre]

The loss of a single arm always removes the default one handed weapon or shield iirc. Whichever is declared first in the unit properties. I haven't tested that though.

[Squirrelloid]

The loss of a single arm always removes the default one handed weapon or shield iirc. Whichever is declared first in the unit properties. I haven't tested that though.

Admittedly, I'm used to seeing units that had a weapon and shield lose the arm, and they seem to always lose the shield. One would think that if you lost an arm you would get to keep a one-handed weapon even if you had no shield before. And a weapon that is innate should not be able to be lost as long as you have the means to use it...

I have no idea if shields are always declared first or not.

[Sombre]

Yeah I agree it seems like a bug. Perhaps the drain life attack that illithids use should be #bonus as well so they can keep it with armloss or custom weapons.

[AreaOfEffect]

That would make the Illithid Soldier unbelievably powerful if each one also got a life drain attack. It would also make the Illithid Lord an amazing thug, even though he's a decent one already.

[Squirrelloid]

That would make the Illithid Soldier unbelievably powerful if each one also got a life drain attack. It would also make the Illithid Lord an amazing thug, even though he's a decent one already.

Neither of them have a lifedrain attack. No one is proposing adding one to units that don't have one.

Rather, the regular illithids maybe want their lifedrain to be a bonus attack so they don't lose it when they lose an arm. This might give them a punch as well... (oh noes?)

[Sombre]

I don't think that would automatically give them a punch. Not sure though.

It wouldn't be a major boon to rlyeh for drain life to be a bonus attack. It's a weapon used by quite a few different monsters and it might be pretty strong on some of them that would like to use two shields or a shield and sword and so on.

[rdonj]

It might be a good idea to bring this up in the CBM thread, as the devs seem to be busy with other things at the moment. This is a change that wouldn't be too hard to implement with CBM.

[Bananadine]

Barrier is a tower shield, but it can be used by mounted troops.

[Squirrelloid]

There is apparently a 20 message limit. The game happily lets you order sendings beyond 20, gives no warning that you are exceeding this limit, and all gold/items/gems so sent merely disappear into the ether.

(Display, if anyone is keeping track, does cap at 20, but it still lets you order the sending of things beyond that. Seeing as how there is no mention anywhere I can find of a 20 message limit, I certainly wasn't paying attention).

Suggested fixes:
-Remove Limit OR
-Make it impossible to send messages beyond the 20 allowed OR
-At least provide a warning that further messages will not be received.

Obviously, there's no way to review messages sent in-game, so i can't actually provide direct demonstration. However, I can provide a .trn file at the start of turn N, the 2h file from turn N with a description of all sent items, gems, and gold, and the demonstrable absence of them. And the .trn files for the nominal recipients of all items sent from turn N+1 if necessary. Should be fairly trivial to reproduce though.

[chrispedersen]

someone wrote an app that lets you review what you did with your messages.

don't remember the name of it .. though its memory related.

[Illuminated One]

Amnesia?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42443&highlight=amnesia

edit: :p

[Gandalf Parker]

I dont think amnesia will help in this case.
The game displays "xx message sent" for each message up to 20 then doesnt. And the extra messages dont show up in the log file the way 1-20 do. So as far as I can tell the game does not record the extra messages at all and they probably are not in the 2h file.

Nor do I think any of the recommended fixes would work. The game does do a display, and might be considered "working the way it works" unless Johan says it isnt. If he agrees that it should be changed then Id recommend simply locking the messages at the cap and grey-out the message sending menu.

[chrispedersen]

Nor do I think any of the recommended fixes would work. The game does do a display, and might be considered "working the way it works" unless Johan says it isnt.

I really don't want to be offenseive Gandalf - but simply deleting items under the guise of sending them, is not working.

The system did not work.

[Squirrelloid]

Some weird event bugs:
The 'local lord has used slave labor to increase resources' event doesn't actually seem to do anything. Happened targeting a sloth 3 capital with no expansion (res == 44), and resources were still 44 afterwards. Sadly cannot provide turn file.

Events which add a site can still trigger on a province that already has 4 sites. Specifically, capital with starting site + 3 event sites got a 4th place a site event. Obviously, with 4 sites no new site could be placed. I can provide the trn file with the event and the obvious lack of the new site on the province.

(Yes, i've been hitting end turn on a luck 3 SP game to see what heroes look like for a particular nation, why do you ask?)

[Edi]

I can check the local lord event for bugs, but if there is something, it will still require Johan to fix it. The turn file for the site addition should be sent to IW per the shortlist thread instructions.

[thejeff]

My assumption has always been that the "slave labor" event was a temporary bonus. If you had extra troops in the queue, 44 more resources worth would have been built that turn.

Never tested it though.

[cleveland]

It's working as described in the event, believe it or not.

There's a "hidden" resource stash in every province that's related to the "partially spent" resources from the previous turn. This event adds to that hidden amount.

For example, say a province only produces 5 resources per turn. On turn 30, you recruit a 10 resource recruit; it'll show up in the queue shaded. On turn 31, he'll still be in the queue, but no longer shaded; further, the province will STILL show 5 resources available. On turn 32, he'll be available .

But lets say you get the resource event on turn 30. He'll still show up shaded in the queue, but will be available on turn 31.

If this is going to be fixed, then I'd like to point out a potential exploit...Edi, please check your PM.

[chrispedersen]

I dont' think thats exactly right.
There hidden resources available for each province regardless of whether there are units in queue or not- its these hidden resources that get tapped when you build a castle, for example.

I've never thought to look to see if that slave labor event was a permanent event, or a temporary one. I would be interested in finding out if this is a triggered event..

ie., is (unfinishable unit in queue) a trigger for event? I wonder what scale conditions are necessary for it.....

[thejeff]

Two different hidden resources. One is unusable until a castle is built.
The other is the accounting error that shows up when you've got more units queued than can be built.

[vfb]

I'm surprised this one has not been mentioned before.

All you need to do is hit the 'B' key, and you can blood hunt underwater.

[Frozen Lama]

Teh Hax!!! :p

[Squirrelloid]

Do they drown?

[vfb]

No. In UW battle (if one happened in the prov you are hunting), the slaves stay as gems on the commander, not as slaves running around UW.

[Frozen Lama]

wow. that's quite a big bug.

[thejeff]

Sea of Ice doesn't keep water breathers from retreating to an water province. Then they can't return to the land.

This has been both good and bad. Units who would be cut off on land can still survive, but units who could retreat on land can wind up underwater and out of the fight.

It may work the other way as well, retreating to land, but I haven't tested that.

[nordlys]

Cursed artifact or not, I don't think a pebble skin suit should have a power over undeath and celestial beings. Transforming a spectral mage into a living troll makes little sense thematically :)

[cleveland]

Edi, please check your PM regarding a cheat detection :bug:

[Edi]

If you sent the files to the Illwinter address, Johan can check it.

[Bananadine]

Okay where do we send busted turn files these days? I don't want to attach mine to this post because the game is still going! NOT THAT THE OTHER PLAYERS WOULD CHEAT but

Anyway I'm seeing getmany failures that are triggered by The Looming Hell (which I cast)--one per turn, generally. They don't bother me very much because they only appear when I try to view certain "battles", so it's easy to avoid one once I've located it. On the latest turn in this game, the battle that crashes supposedly takes place in a province that my scouting indicates to be empty.

This kinda reminds me of when, in this same game, my pretender god patrolled at some fortress and "found" a few hidden commanders, producing messages stating that they were found... but then no battles could be viewed (I think clicking the View Battle button did nothing). Probably unrelated though. But I guess that's my second bug report for this message. :)

[Squirrelloid]

Cursed artifact or not, I don't think a pebble skin suit should have a power over undeath and celestial beings. Transforming a spectral mage into a living troll makes little sense thematically :)

So powerful is the pebble skin suit, it can even resurrect the dead flesh of ancient gods from tartarus into the body of a living troll. Ridiculous does not even *begin* to describe it.

[Edi]

Okay where do we send busted turn files these days? I don't want to attach mine to this post because the game is still going! NOT THAT THE OTHER PLAYERS WOULD CHEAT but

Anyway I'm seeing getmany failures that are triggered by The Looming Hell (which I cast)--one per turn, generally. They don't bother me very much because they only appear when I try to view certain "battles", so it's easy to avoid one once I've located it. On the latest turn in this game, the battle that crashes supposedly takes place in a province that my scouting indicates to be empty.

This kinda reminds me of when, in this same game, my pretender god patrolled at some fortress and "found" a few hidden commanders, producing messages stating that they were found... but then no battles could be viewed (I think clicking the View Battle button did nothing). Probably unrelated though. But I guess that's my second bug report for this message. :)
The instructions on where to send files and how are in the shortlist thread, first post.

[zzcat]

If an unit with Medallion of Vengeance casts phoenix pyre, it occasionally spawns multiple copies in battlefield when killed. Some of them can't be damaged and will stay in battlefield until their enemy routes due to turn limit. IMO it's something like memory leak or corrupted pointers...

Attached turn file requires CBM1.6.

[thejeff]

I've seen it recently without Medallion of Vengeance. Not sure what triggers it.

[Edi]

Again, send the turn files to Illwinter. Johan is the only one who can do anything about that one.

[ologm]

I had it occur two times that I won the game in the replay, but the message and map situation show me losing. Both times it happened when I broke a siege and moved some other units in at the same time.

Scenario:
1. Get sieged by enemy.
2. Tell units inside of castle to break the siege.
3. Move some extra units in from a nearby province to assist at the same time.

Maybe if more people see this happen, we can investigate.

[Wrana]

I had it occur two times that I won the game in the replay, but the message and map situation show me losing. Both times it happened when I broke a siege and moved some other units in at the same time.
...
Maybe if more people see this happen, we can investigate.
It happened to me long ago and I'm almost sure that siege wasn't a factor. Something about replay being recalculated...

[thejeff]

It happens.
It used to happen with version differences and/or OS differences between server and client, but it's been seen more recently even in one machine SP games.

[cthulhu]

There is a bug where when you press space from the main view when a unit is selected the orders menu will appear at the wrong X coordinate.

Also, I think there is some confusion about whether the maximum number of globals is supposed to be 5 or 6. The manual says only 5 are allowed, and sometimes the game seems to allow only 5, but other times it allows 6. I can provide saved games with 6 globals if desired.

Both of those issues were also present in Dominions 2.

edit:
1st issue I last saw in 3.23b, and cannot reproduce at will but have a saved game with it, and I've seen it numerous times. 2nd issue I last saw in 3.24, and I can reproduce at will on any version from 2.0 to 3.24.

[danbo]

Sea of Ice doesn't keep water breathers from retreating to an water province. Then they can't return to the land.

It may work the other way as well, retreating to land, but I haven't tested that.

It works both ways. While playing LA Atlantis I managed to corner century of skinshifters underwater when Sea of Ice was on. Player probably was aware of this exploit and simply ordered retreat - all the skinshifters made it to land safely.

So, Sea of Ice doesn't work if the units retreat out of or into the water.

[thejeff]

Which allows the exploit of attacking a province with retreat orders in hopes of retreating through the barrier. Not just to escape, but to actually troops or mages from sea to land or vice versa, bypassing much of the effect of the Sea.

[Olive]

Two little bugs I didn't see in the shortlist :

- Very minor one : Voice of Tiamat : unlike others site searching spells, if you cast this spell with several mages, they auto-target the same province, you have to target provinces manually.

- Related to the Chayots, a bug and a big exploit (or WAD maybe, would be justifying the cost of those guys) :
When shape shifting, the Chayot's magic skills changes, but when scripting then for battle, if in your script you pick shape shifting, the next spells he may cast will be of his ancient skill.
IE : your Chayot is in E4 mode, you start your script with Invulnerability, Summon Earthpower, Change Shape. At that point, the Chayot will be able to cast only Astral spells, but you can script him with only Earth spells.

The exploit : when giving them magic boosters, they got the effects for any magic school related to one of their shapes. IE if they're in E4 mode and you give them a Starshine Scullcap, they'll be E4S1. The same for spell bonuses : I casted Summon Earthpower for reinvig, then changed shape for the astral form, he kept the E bonus and was E1S4.
Maybe WAD to justify the prohibitive cost of these guys, but seems like a big exploit to me.

Just for fun, without empowerment :D :

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/778/chayot.jpg

[Loren]

Bug?

A queen of elemental air can't cross water, yet I see nothing in her description that keeps her from doing so.

Edit: Definitely bug.

Rhuax (King of Elemental fire) can cross water, but Pyriphlogos can't!

AI Bug:

I had Thetis' Blessing up with +50 gems and a good caster. The AI put enough into it to overpower it--to cast Thetis' Blessing! I can certainly understand why he wanted it from the tactical situation but he could have used mine.

[vfb]

It's not a bug, it's a unit attribute. See the "Cannot go underwater" unit attribute on the wiki, eg Queen of Storms (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Queen_of_Storms). Vampires and Air Queens have it, along with the King of Flames. I guess the Magma guy can go underwater because of underwater volcanoes or whatever.

Bug?

A queen of elemental air can't cross water, yet I see nothing in her description that keeps her from doing so.

Edit: Definitely bug.

Rhuax (King of Elemental fire) can cross water, but Pyriphlogos can't!

AI Bug:

I had Thetis' Blessing up with +50 gems and a good caster. The AI put enough into it to overpower it--to cast Thetis' Blessing! I can certainly understand why he wanted it from the tactical situation but he could have used mine.

[cthulhu]

Oh, and another oddity: monthly-cast of the spell for creating vampire lords has some quirks... it tends to work when my pretender uses it but fail (the spell works, but the order does not repeat next month regardless of how many blood slaves I have) when I issue the order to a vampire lord equipped with a skull staff. Could be related to whether or not the mage needs booster items to cast it?

[PyroStock]

AI Bug:

I had Thetis' Blessing up with +50 gems and a good caster. The AI put enough into it to overpower it--to cast Thetis' Blessing! I can certainly understand why he wanted it from the tactical situation but he could have used mine.

I've seen the AI overpower it's own ArcaneNexus for a StellarFocus, despite it already controlling all 5 globals. If it owns all 5 globals and the Nexus it shouldn't keep casting random globals.

With a high death pretender/unit the AI will also cast Utterdark, which usually leads it and other AIs to a quick death since the AI is so dependent on gold. Except for a few certain nations the AI should never cast Utterdark or Burden of Time. If the AI doesn't benefit from Eyes of God then it shouldn't cast that either.

If the AI is ever reviewed some other points:

1. Bad scales for points is fine, but AI Heat Nations and Cold Blooded Nations should never take cold scales (take heat for points). Likewise, AI Cold Nations should never take heat scales.
2. AI should never send it's god into the arena.

[Loren]

It's not a bug, it's a unit attribute. See the "Cannot go underwater" unit attribute on the wiki, eg Queen of Storms (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Queen_of_Storms). Vampires and Air Queens have it, along with the King of Flames. I guess the Magma guy can go underwater because of underwater volcanoes or whatever.

Bug?

A queen of elemental air can't cross water, yet I see nothing in her description that keeps her from doing so.

Edit: Definitely bug.

Rhuax (King of Elemental fire) can cross water, but Pyriphlogos can't!

AI Bug:

I had Thetis' Blessing up with +50 gems and a good caster. The AI put enough into it to overpower it--to cast Thetis' Blessing! I can certainly understand why he wanted it from the tactical situation but he could have used mine.

Vampires say they can't, the others don't. Thus there is a bug, although perhaps only with the text.

[Edi]

Not everything must be spelled out in detail. Would you expect a fire elemental to be able to survive underwater when fire and water are opposites?

If not, why would you expect a king of elemental fire to be able to go underwater anymore than a regular fire elemental? Just because it used to be so due to game mechanics?

[cthulhu]

Personally I think that queens of elemental air ought to be able to at least go over water even if they aren't allowed to go under water. Something similar to the sailing special ability, but effecting only the commander? Or heck, maybe just sailing.

But I agree that it's not really a bug. Unit attributes that do not show up in the icons or the text descriptions are not automatically bugs, though they are undesirable.

[Loren]

Personally I think that queens of elemental air ought to be able to at least go over water even if they aren't allowed to go under water. Something similar to the sailing special ability, but effecting only the commander? Or heck, maybe just sailing.

But I agree that it's not really a bug. Unit attributes that do not show up in the icons or the text descriptions are not automatically bugs, though they are undesirable.

Yeah, everything that couldn't cross the water was stuff that by appearance should be able to go over the water.

[Wrana]

Personally I think that queens of elemental air ought to be able to at least go over water even if they aren't allowed to go under water. Something similar to the sailing special ability, but effecting only the commander? Or heck, maybe just sailing.

But I agree that it's not really a bug. Unit attributes that do not show up in the icons or the text descriptions are not automatically bugs, though they are undesirable.

Yeah, everything that couldn't cross the water was stuff that by appearance should be able to go over the water.

I think the (in)ability was developed with vampires in mind...

[Burnsaber]

I think the best option would just not to think about UW access things too hard. Bane Lords, for example are unable to go into water without water breathing items althought they clearly don't breathe in the first place. Just go with it.

[Baneslave]

I think the best option would just not to think about UW access things too hard. Bane Lords, for example are unable to go into water without water breathing items althought they clearly don't breathe in the first place. Just go with it.

Same is true with many LA Ermor's (cold aura) commanders. Maybe they cannot go underwater because it freezes around them? :p

[Burnsaber]

Same is true with many LA Ermor's (cold aura) commanders. Maybe they cannot go underwater because it freezes around them? :p

Nice try, but Spectres have poor amphibian although they have chill aura, so that logic does not apply :P.

[rdonj]

But they're ethereal, so they can pass through the ice!

[Burnsaber]

But they're ethereal, so they can pass through the ice!

Okay, so ethreal undead should be able to go underwater? See Jomons/Shinyamas ghost generals for an example where that logic fails.

[Squirrelloid]

heck, all ethereal creatures should be amphibious. Like they care if they're moving through water or air (or solid rock...)? Its all the same to them, right? Undead is irrelevant in that context.

[Loren]

I think the best option would just not to think about UW access things too hard. Bane Lords, for example are unable to go into water without water breathing items althought they clearly don't breathe in the first place. Just go with it.

The thing is I had Thestis' Blessing up. Anything not specifically prohibited from the water should have been able to cross.

Vampires have a specific thematic reason they can't enter water but I don't see that that applies to the elemental royalty.

[Baneslave]

Well, ethereality without flight doesn't make any sense, as wouldn't those units just fall through the earth? :p

[nordlys]

Levitation =/= flight.

Flight in dominion terms means very fast movement (instant on battlefield). Non-flying ethereals just hover over the earth moving with a pedestrian speed.

[ese-aSH]

Something I consider a bug :

I have a fort on a province, dominion 9 for me and luck 3 scale.
An ennemy take the province and besiege the fort.

On the next turn, I have lost my lab, without any message about it. I asked the guy that was besieging, he told me he had a negative event on that province that destroyed the lab.

I understand the game considered that the province was hosted by a nation (my ennemy), under hostile dominion (my dominion) with hostile luck 3, therefore deserved negative events. But if the event affects the nation whose dominion is ruling, it should not happen.

[Edi]

Something I consider a bug :

I have a fort on a province, dominion 9 for me and luck 3 scale.
An ennemy take the province and besiege the fort.

On the next turn, I have lost my lab, without any message about it. I asked the guy that was besieging, he told me he had a negative event on that province that destroyed the lab.

I understand the game considered that the province was hosted by a nation (my ennemy), under hostile dominion (my dominion) with hostile luck 3, therefore deserved negative events. But if the event affects the nation whose dominion is ruling, it should not happen.
You can chalk that up as another siege related behavior bug. There are three tons and then some of those, even after everything that has been fixed.

Events that happen in provinces under siege are displayed to the besieger, since he has control of the province (just not fullowner). If the event affects some aspect of the province, it doesn't matter who controls that particular aspect of the partially owned province. This means that your temple or lab may blow up due to an event, the besieger may get PD increases to the besieged province (since he controls the outside of it) etc.

The most annoying of the various siege bugs is that when a siege is in progress, all attacks by independent sources (barbarian hordes, vampire counts, necromancers, knights, ghost riders etc) go into limbo instead of hitting the besieger as they should and only emerge after someone has sole control of the province. This was not bugged in Dominions 2, so you could get help from such events if you were under siege.

Most of these have been reported and are in the shortlist.

There is no easy way to fix these events either, since the fullowner requirement for events must be set to a specific nation, it cannot be set to nation_all. If it could, then it would be trivial to fix these, but would also remove the possibility of temples and labs burning down during sieges (which is actually pretty realistic).

[ese-aSH]

I understand. I was just reporting that behaviour since it happened 2 times in 10 turns to me on the same province ;) no big deal anyway (I wondered which spell was breaking my labs).

[Graeme Dice]

Battlefield wide spells should probably consider the size of the current battlefield for their area of effect instead of the whatever constant value they currently use.

[Squirrelloid]

Battlefield wide spells should probably consider the size of the current battlefield for their area of effect instead of the whatever constant value they currently use.

Yes, having battlefield wide spells effect 1/10th of the battlefield because your opponent brought 9000 troops is rather annoying.

Similarly, enough troops to massively deform the battlefield should not let them walk around the *sides* of castle walls to get behind them.

[kennydicke]

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this but, since the new patch, many units without ranged weapons have the 'Fire' orders. No big deal, but I assume it's a bug.

Also, one of my sprites shows up backwards in battle and stays that way until it attacks or gets attacked, even when it casts spells it doesn't flip to the proper orientation. I assume this is a problem with the sprite, not an actual game bug.

[chrispedersen]

are you sure it wasn't charmed or enslaved? But funny thing.. I've also seen a backwards sprite.

[kennydicke]

chrispedersen
are you sure it wasn't charmed or enslaved?
Yeah, I'm sure. It's a totemic PD-leader for a mod. It always starts a fight backwards. On the world map, as a commander (or in a recruitment queue) it faces the proper direction. Weird.

[Sombre]

Units which are onebattlespell summoned in battle appear backwards if the nation they belong to has an odd nation ID.

Strange but true.

[Mysterio]

I'm wondering if this is a bug. Last turn, Man's Gift of Health was dispelled. This turn, his units are still showing an HP buff, even while in enemy dominion. I witnessed this in many battles I had with him in multiple provinces.

[thejeff]

No. It takes awhile for hp bonuses to wear off.

You see the same thing with pretender/prophet dominion hp boosts and life drain boosts.

[Micah]

I believe the exact formula is half of the excess per turn.

[horza]

Playing a one-on-one MP game we had a climactic battle on turn 70 that was wonderfully buggy: a staff of storms that didn't provide Storm; Solar Brilliance that didn't affect undead, but did overwhelm Darkness; Flame and Fire Storms being cast by the AI without gems.

Unfortunately we weren't patching as we went along - this was run under 3.21b. Any point in posting/sending the game files?

(Rather more unfortunately we didn't backup properly and can't run it again. As the host and loser of the battle I can only blame myself.)

Are there any known bugs with large amounts of BF spells interacting weirdly?

[Edi]

You could send the files to Illwinter per the shortlist post instructions, but no guarantee that anything will turn up or whether Johan will even take a look at such an old patch version.

[horza]

Probably not worth it. We both took another look at it (NB this was a very big battle), and a lot of the weirdness can be explained: so many BF spells fired not all the pentagrams could be displayed, so Storm was there after all. And there was a fire mage who apparently woke up around round 30 to use his gems.

However Solar Brilliance definitely did no damage to any undead - nor even MR5 skeletons. Is there an interaction with Darkness we're not aware of possibly? It previously appeared that SB always superceded Darkness in terms of cancelling any Att/Per reductions and inflicting blindness. However possibly SB + Darkness cancels the anti-undead effect.

Just to complicate things further we'd previously fought under Darkness followed by SB, but in this case it was Darkness, Solar Brilliance, followed by Darkness again. My opponent was using Tarts and was hoping a second casting would trump the SB.

[chrispedersen]

Interesting.. I thought I've cast

Darkness.....(SB) .... Darkness to effect before.

[zzcat]

Winter wolves led by a niefel giant will attack random province when illwinter(Niefelhelm's national GE, not the developer's company:)) is present. But niefel giant has no magic leadership so the mindless wolves dissolve as soon as they appears. Perhaps we should give niefel giant magic leadership 10.

[Sombre]

Winter wolves led by a niefel giant will attack random province when illwinter(Niefelhelm's national GE, not the developer's company:)) is present. But niefel giant has no magic leadership so the mindless wolves dissolve as soon as they appears. Perhaps we should give niefel giant magic leadership 10.

I never noticed that, but you're right. Pretty retarded.

Yeah he should get magical leadership then.

[thejeff]

I could swear I've seen that work, without the wolves dissolving. Maybe a CBM change?
What would be a really nice boost to a very thematic, but not very useful spell is giving Niefel Giants 1H, so they can self-bless when they're commanders. Shouldn't affect anything other than this spell, since I doubt they be worth a GoR anyway.

[Sombre]

Better to just give them #onebattlespell of self bless.

[thejeff]

Could work, but they often show up with 1 commander and several other giants. #onebattlespell isn't guaranteed to get them all. An H1 priest will keep casting until he does. The only other thing is that he'd banish undead instead of closing.

[Sombre]

He isn't going to attack anyway if he has troops. He'll default to staying behind them.

[thejeff]

But as I said, blessing the other giants that show up helps. And it helps if PD closes with him.

[thejeff]

The most recent patch broke the "Maggots" spell.

It now causes curse, a Curse of Stones effect and a weird affliction with no effect, instead of doing Poison damage.

Bananadine reported this and I've confirmed it.
In one test it worked in 3.23 and broke watching the replay in 3.24.


Burnsaber came up with a mod fix:


#selectspell "Maggots"
#effect 7
#spec 67125376 -- AN, Always hits, only hits UD
#damage 50
#end

[ologm]

BUG:
Bathusma, Queen of the Deeps, monster nr 907 equipped with hydra skin armor and ring of regeneration while fighting underwater can be poisoned by tritons with coral spears even though she has 200% poison resistance.

This might have something to do with her having more regeneration than her maximum hitpoints. She also suddenly died without reason during the fight.

[Edi]

BUG:
Bathusma, Queen of the Deeps, monster nr 907 equipped with hydra skin armor and ring of regeneration while fighting underwater can be poisoned by tritons with coral spears even though she has 200% poison resistance.

This might have something to do with her having more regeneration than her maximum hitpoints. She also suddenly died without reason during the fight.

Send the file to Illwinter along with a description of this.

[Zeldor]

Maybe as Illwinter is fixing small bgus, they could at last fix the problem with #specstart and coastal nations? [LA Atlantis, LA Marignon, EA Fomoria] The one that makes it impossible to use #specstart with coastal nations without destroying the game [unless you place them on coast that is, but not possible on every map].

[Samulus]

Ok guys, Im a new member who is really confused atm.

So here is my situation. I have just downloaded the game, patched it all the way through, and now when i end my turn it says some stuff in a language i don't quite understand and something like convarmy something something. Then the game closes automatically.

But when i boot dominions up again and play that same game, the turn has been completed as if the game never closed. Does anyone know what that is?

Just to let you all know, I have two copies of the game (both on the desktop). One unpatched, the other is patched. The unpatched version works just fine but the patched version (which is the one i copied/pasted) has problems still.

I don't quite understand what's going on. Should i delete both and reinstall one singular version and patch that to 3.23?
:confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

EDIT: Yeah the unpatched one is now doing the same thing. What should i do?

[Swan]

Ok guys, Im a new member who is really confused atm.

So here is my situation. I have just downloaded the game, patched it all the way through, and now when i end my turn it says some stuff in a language i don't quite understand and something like convarmy something something. Then the game closes automatically.


you can't download the game, you have to physically buy it

[Calahan]

Ok guys, Im a new member who is really confused atm.

So here is my situation. I have just downloaded the game, patched it all the way through, and now when i end my turn it says some stuff in a language i don't quite understand and something like convarmy something something. Then the game closes automatically.

you can't download the game, you have to physically buy it
You're not keeping up with Shrapnel news Swan :)

Dominions entered the modern computer game world with a digital download option as of March 2010. Here is the announcement.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45065


Edit: Still makes more sense to order it the old fashioned way through the post though IMO. As you get the awesome manual in paper format that way. (rather than as PDF file :(). How many of the newer games these days come with actual manuals that you can read on the bog? None basically.

[Gregstrom]

Ninja'd. By Calahan. Darn.

[Samulus]

By that, i mean i got it off the disc. -.-

Jesus. In anycase I have my friends manual cause i lost mine. Its pretty big and it smells like strategy. So yeah, how do i fix this?

Edit: I have mediocre computer skills, so i probably screwed up somewhere. Still, someone has to have some wealth of knowledge to assist a poor and very confused person.

[Stavis_L]

By that, i mean i got it off the disc. -.-


The normal term for that is to install (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/install).

You could post the complete error and someone might recognize it. Or, you could contact Shrapnel support directly (probably more effective.)

[Samulus]

Its ConvArmyNbr.

Reinstalling worked. But I haven't patched yet. I'll patch up to the latest version and see how it works.

[Samulus]

Ok so here is my final look on the situation.

The latest patch works fine... somewhat. Its buggy as hell but when I don't patch it works perfectly. Now its sorta freezing up, but works if i wait long enough.

Which sucks.

But hey, I know how to make this work.

[Loren]

Ok so here is my final look on the situation.

The latest patch works fine... somewhat. Its buggy as hell but when I don't patch it works perfectly. Now its sorta freezing up, but works if i wait long enough.

Which sucks.

But hey, I know how to make this work.

I've never seen the error you mention on any version and I certainly wouldn't describe it as buggy as hell.

I'm wondering about your system.

I would suggest you go download Memtest86, burn it and run a memory test. (Note: It is *NOT* a program you run normally. You burn a CD and boot the CD.)

[Samulus]

System? Uh... ok.

In anycase, I'll try patching again. I'll also try testing it by copy/pasting it to the desktop then patching that one.

Hm... memtest86 eh? Ill try that out. Thanks!

[Edi]

Its ConvArmyNbr.

Reinstalling worked. But I haven't patched yet. I'll patch up to the latest version and see how it works.

You have been banned for pirating the game.

[Stavis_L]

Unit 2070, the Sibyl of Hermon (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Sibyl_of_Hermon), a hero unit for Gath, does not have either healer abilities or fortunetelling ability, both of which she should have according to her description.

[Zeldor]

It looks like forts created with spells have def at 0 on the turn they are constructed, as attacking them on same turn works like casting Crumble first - defense is at 0 + whatever you can repair.

[Lingchih]

Heh, good to know. I will now use that knowledge against you.

[Dimaz]

I already used it unintentionally against Zeldor, that's why he knows it :)

[Edi]

Unit 2070, the Sibyl of Hermon (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Sibyl_of_Hermon), a hero unit for Gath, does not have either healer abilities or fortunetelling ability, both of which she should have according to her description.
Known, been on the shortlist for months.

The fort bug probably needs to be added, I had no idea about that one.

[chrispedersen]

Unit 2070, the Sibyl of Hermon (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Sibyl_of_Hermon), a hero unit for Gath, does not have either healer abilities or fortunetelling ability, both of which she should have according to her description.
Known, been on the shortlist for months.

The fort bug probably needs to be added, I had no idea about that one.

I don't really see that as a bug - more a mostly unknown facet.
If the defense increases the way forts usually do I think thats fine.

[Sajuuk]

In one of my MP game I give my tart cyclops a shroud of battle saint for the benefit of my high bless, and when he cast iron will on himself, the "blessed" status just gone, along with all the bonus. So I made some test:

It seems the "blessed" status(as well as sacred status and all blessed bonus) given by item like shroud of the battle saint(armor nbr 54) and armor of virtue(armor nbr 110)will be negated by multiple spells, like all mr increasing spell(resist magic, iron will, anti magic, army of lead)and some other spell, according to my test, spell like personal luck, phoenix power or weapon of sharpness will end "blessed" condition, while mist form, pheonix pyre or iron skin will not affect. It's just spell I tested, I believe there will be more spell that will negate it. Innately sacred creature will not be affected, though.

[Edi]

In one of my MP game I give my tart cyclops a shroud of battle saint for the benefit of my high bless, and when he cast iron will on himself, the "blessed" status just gone, along with all the bonus. So I made some test:

It seems the "blessed" status(as well as sacred status and all blessed bonus) given by item like shroud of the battle saint(armor nbr 54) and armor of virtue(armor nbr 110)will be negated by multiple spells, like all mr increasing spell(resist magic, iron will, anti magic, army of lead)and some other spell, according to my test, spell like personal luck, phoenix power or weapon of sharpness will end "blessed" condition, while mist form, pheonix pyre or iron skin will not affect. It's just spell I tested, I believe there will be more spell that will negate it. Innately sacred creature will not be affected, though.

Known issue.

It is tied up in the sacredness of a unit, so it seems that anything that affects an attribute that can in some way be gained from being blessed will negate the blessing from the shroud. This is probably because the spells in question needs must check for the presence of blessed status and then the stat increases etc must be factored according to that. Blessing requires being sacred in the normal mechanics, so when that is checked, the loaned bless from the shroud goes poof.

That's my hypothesis on how it works, but I obviously don't know for sure. Debug logs would help a lot in narrowing it down, you just need someone to decipher them and I'm not too good at that.

If you do have debug logs, this could be sent to Johan and he could check it out.

[Sajuuk]

It seems differ from creature to creature——test on blue-robed starspawns turns out that non of the spell listed above affect "blessed" status, unlike tarts.

[Edi]

It seems differ from creature to creature——test on blue-robed starspawns turns out that non of the spell listed above affect "blessed" status, unlike tarts.
Blessing can't raise MR beyond 18 and they have native 18 MR, so there is no effect or flag to overwrite from Iron Will, for example.

[Sajuuk]

Tartarian cyclops/titans have nature 18MR, and starspawn have 20, non of them should be benefit on blessing......

Beside, that does not explain why personal luck negate blessing on tarts but not on starspawns, and twisted fate does not negate both, yet air shield negate tarts' blessing

[ologm]

A stealthed unit that auto generates units can siege indefinitely.

Scenario:
Sneak stealthy unit that auto generates units, example a pan with meanads, into enemy province with castle.
Defeat province defense and patrolling forces in the province somehow.
The enemy is now almost unable to stop the siege.
The enemy can break siege from inside castle or send in new troops, but after defeating the sieging forces the liberating forces move into the castle, after which a new unit( meanad ) is generated in the now undefended province and the castle is under siege again.

Only way to stop it is with assasination spells or have a third party help you.

[Sajuuk]

Someone use vampire count of la ulm play this trick to me, too. Solution is pretty easy: move a commander or an army from other province to this castle with the "move and patrol" order, they will patrol and engage those new generated units and drive them away.

[thejeff]

Can you move and patrol into a province you don't own? The castle is under siege, the Maenads own the province.

[Gandalf Parker]

Its also been used by something as simple as a Scout with the Soul Contract. The invading army is able to move on and continue taking provinces because that one scout is able to hold the castle BETTER than the large army could against ANY force of ANY size that is inside the castle.

This was extensively discussed in IRC. There is no way to get a turn for buying PD or setting Patrols. Move and Patrol would seem to be an answer, but thejeff is correct that its apparently not an option when you dont own the province.

Making "Move and Patrol" work would be one answer. A better one IMHO would be to have "Break Siege" be automatically followed by "Patrol". It seems logical to me that if I have left the castle to break a siege that I would then be outside the castle, not back inside it defending.

[Sajuuk]

Oh sorry forget that, so seems the only way to deal this problem is spell like mind hunt....

[Finalgenesis]

A star child with soul contract + starshine cap would be fun, the only assassination spell that can target stealth can't really be used on them... At least Ryleth can't get their hands on soul contract easily.

[chrispedersen]

Am I missing something here?

A unit sieging a fort is not stealthy... Or are you saying that a stealthy unit that auto generates somehow auto sieges?

I pointed out like two years ago that you can use this same behavior with horrors. Send the horror, move the vamp, the free spawn takes the territory, never risking the vampire. (or something like that)

[thejeff]

Stealthy commander that auto generates non stealthy units.

The non stealthy units have no where to go except into the province. Since there are no enemy troops in the province, they take it.

The key here is, there's no way to take the province back. Breaking the siege works, but your army goes back into the castle afterwards and the new autospawn take the province again.

[Sajuuk]

Oh，there is a way other than mind hunt, WHICH WILL BE AVAILABLE IN THE NEXT VERSION: Ask help on your ally, a third nation, let them siege and patrol your castle to get the pan or vampire count or whatever. Unfortunately, in the current version the unit that been patroled out will just became "defend" and there will be no battle unless the siege is over, just like barbarian attack during sieging. So you just need to change "defend" command into "hide" and all their effort will be in vain. Hopefully, this will be changed in the next version according to the progress page.

And seems the free spawn will only generate if the province is your dominion OR under your control.

[ologm]

The combad ai also really over prefers confusion and rage against lone non shock or fire immune sc that could easily be lightning bolted or incinerated to death it keeps spamming rage and confusion over and over again.

[chrispedersen]

INteresting.

Random LA game.

La Rlyeh starts on land, and the squid doesn't die either.

[Stavis_L]

I checked the short-list more carefully this time, and didn't see this:

The weapon (fist, 92) for the Juggernaut unit is inappropriate. Presumably it's using fist as it's the default (per the modding manual).

I would suggest weapon 90-crush as a more appropriate replacement.

[lch]

The weapon (fist, 92) for the Juggernaut unit is inappropriate. Presumably it's using fist as it's the default (per the modding manual).

I would suggest weapon 90-crush as a more appropriate replacement.
Heh, nice. :)

I remember using the spell for the first time, when I was reading the spell description, didn't know what I'll get, and imagined some kind of golden Colossus descending down to my armies to help them, slaying all the enemies in its path. Imagine my surprise when what I received was some kind of oxcart with no slots for hands or feet, who could "only" roll over them. :o

[Gregstrom]

In a recent MP game, I had a Starets wearing the Pebble Skin suit. On turn 100, he was a Starets with the standard 50 CR. On turn 101, he became a troll with -50 CR. This looks like a bug.

[Stavis_L]

In a recent MP game, I had a Starets wearing the Pebble Skin suit. On turn 100, he was a Starets with the standard 50 CR. On turn 101, he became a troll with -50 CR. This looks like a bug.

In addition to occasionally turning you into a troll, the suit also gives you stoneskin (and accompanying CR malus.) Are you sure the Starets didn't have net zero cold resistance prior to transformation? Or perhaps there was another item that the unit also carried?

[Gregstrom]

Stoneskin would account for it, yes. The previous form's CR wouldn't carry over, either.

[ioticus]

Just started playing again and noticed two bugs:

A blood mage cast pain transfer when there are no blood slaves present.

In one game I started to get scout reports on my own friendly provinces as if they were enemy controlled.

[ioticus]

On the Aran map I cannot move between areas 98 and 104 even though I'm allowed to give the move order.

[ioticus]

Edit: I was finally able to move after several attempts. The enemy space did have a occupied fortress there. Don't know if this is related to the non-movement bug that was reported before.

[Squirrelloid]

Ok, I know we've talked about it before, but now I've got a .trn file with an H2 precision 15 mage *by himself* casting bless and missing. Bless has a precision 100, so this should never happen (and is therefore a bug).

The game is using the ThreeFort mod (which includes CBM 1.6), but the bless spell has not been altered in any way so the mod should not be having an effect on performance.

The relevant combat is the battle in Old Forest.

I ask the other players in ThreeFort to not look at the .trn file, since its the most recent turn.

I've attached the .trn file below, as well as the .dm for the mod and the map files. I have not attached any sprite images (ie, the Worthy Hero sprites that are part of CBM), so anyone wishing to view should probably dl CBM 1.6 if they haven't done so already.

[thejeff]

I can't look at the turn right now, but when you say by himself, there's no one, including enemies near him when he casts bless?

In my tests, targeting was the problem. Bless would target any unit as long as the AoE in its tests included unblessed sacreds. Since the AoE spreads randomly it doesn't always include the same squares and the actual cast might not cover any actual sacreds.
This isn't necessarily a bad approach. If a non-sacred is between 2 groups of sacreds, targeting him might actually cover more sacreds than aiming for any of the actual targets.

[RadicalTurnip]

It's rare, but this can happen, I believe the bless spell hits squares randomly and can miss the square it was actually cast in. Not sure that it's a bug, you may have just been unlucky.

[thejeff]

I'm pretty sure the target square is always hit. My testing never showed that happening. The debug log will tell you which square was targeted.
I won't get a chance to look at this one until this evening.

[rdonj]

This has happened to me numerous times, particularly noticeably with hinnom/ashdod. I've never had it happen with a sidhe lord, funnily enough. But it's happened enough with hinnom/ashdod that I always script them to bless twice now in the early game....

[Squirrelloid]

I can't look at the turn right now, but when you say by himself, there's no one, including enemies near him when he casts bless?

In my tests, targeting was the problem. Bless would target any unit as long as the AoE in its tests included unblessed sacreds. Since the AoE spreads randomly it doesn't always include the same squares and the actual cast might not cover any actual sacreds.
This isn't necessarily a bad approach. If a non-sacred is between 2 groups of sacreds, targeting him might actually cover more sacreds than aiming for any of the actual targets.

There is a single friendly unit in the combat - the caster. (Kinnara thug raiding Caelum PD).

There are non-sacred enemy Caelum PD infantry next to him, but why god why would he target an enemy unit with a spell that only effects allied sacreds? Targeting enemies with bless would surely also constitute a bug.

Anyway, with only one allied sacred (himself), the best way to maximize coverage is obviously to target himself. Its kind of inexcusable that he doesn't. 100% precision is supposed to mean he never misses - what good is that if the targeting behaves inappropriately.

[chrispedersen]

I believe (but do not know) that dominions applies a standard template on Aoe effects.

I believe (but do not know) that it will run through target squares and see how many units are withing the Aoe without considering that template. It uses the first square with the highest number of targeted units.

It then casts the spell and the Template is applied which results in a miss.

Sometime ago I worked on determining what the template was. I dno't ahve the results to hand.

However suppose for example the AoE was 4. the template may result in something like this:
.X1
XTX
.X
where X is the template applied effects, T was the target square and 1 is where the caster is standing when he desired to be blessed.

Playing mictlan I need to bless a lot - I almost always bless twice due to the frequency of units being 'missed'.

[thejeff]

Ok, that clinches it then.

Yes, the AI will target enemy units with a bless. The targeting AI doesn't know what the spell does. It simulates casting the spell at a variety of targets, evaluates the results and chooses the target with the best score.
The code doesn't think. It can't look at the situation and decide that there is only one sacred unit and therefore it should be targeted. It just tries a bunch of locations and uses the one that seems to work best. In some situations that might legitimately be an enemy unit. If he'd been surrounded by your sacred troops, targeting the center enemy unit might actually get more.

In this case the debug log shows us he targeted the pair of Caelum's troops at 7,19 while your priest was at 6,18:

best Blessing this far, 6 17 (136 pnts)
best Blessing this far, 7 19 (140 pnts)
spellscore, Blessing score 146 (boost 106 scorat 0)
Eval: Blessing score 162 (fat 0)
comp_castspell: eval Blessing result 162
best spell so far Blessing (score100162)
...
castspell: cnr83 spl754 (Blessing) vis0 x7 y19 spldmg1
vis 0 xvis 0
blastsqr: unr2241 x7 y19 aoe1 dmg1 eff10 spc1086373888 as10217 al9
affectvic vic6186 hv1
hitunit 2241 6186 dmg1 spec1086373888 ba-1
affectvic vic6188 hv1
hitunit 2241 6188 dmg1 spec1086373888 ba-1
blastsqr: unr2241 x6 y19 aoe1 dmg1 eff10 spc1086373888 as10217 al9
blastsqr: unr2241 x8 y19 aoe1 dmg1 eff10 spc1086373888 as10217 al9
blastsqr: unr2241 x8 y18 aoe1 dmg1 eff10 spc1086373888 as10217 al9
blastsqr: unr2241 x9 y18 aoe1 dmg1 eff10 spc1086373888 as10217 al9
blastsqr: unr2241 x7 y18 aoe1 dmg1 eff10 spc1086373888 as10217 al9
blastsqr: unr2241 x9 y19 aoe1 dmg1 eff10 spc1086373888 as10217 al9
blastsqr: unr2241 x6 y20 aoe1 dmg1 eff10 spc1086373888 as10217 al9
blastsqr: unr2241 x7 y17 aoe1 dmg1 eff10 spc1086373888 as10217 al9
affectvic vic6184 hv0
hitunit 2241 6184 dmg1 spec1086373888 ba-1
blastsqr: unr2241 x8 y20 aoe1 dmg1 eff10 spc1086373888 as10217 al9


What isn't clear to me is how the evaluation is done. It may be that only 2 tries are made, at 6,17 and 7,19. More likely, I think, the log only shows those tries that produce the best results so far. If only one test is done per target, the results should be binary, either the priest was blessed or he wasn't. But they're not, 7,19 gets 4 more points than 6,17. If multiple tries are made, then self-targeting would have the advantage, since it would always hit. It's possible that multiple, but too few tries are made. It's also possible that something is wrong with the scoring algorithm.



chris: I don't know how the actual squares hit by a given AoE are selected, but it isn't as simple as a single template. If you check the patterns for a couple of casts of the same spell they are different. Just looking at the H2 blessings in Squirreloid's turn I saw 5 different patterns, no repetition. Either it's actually generating random squares by some algorithm or picking from a decent number of templates.

[Squirrelloid]

Surely the AI should know which targets can be effected by a spell its casting? I mean, it doesn't cast 'effects only enemies' spells on your own troops, nor does it drop its fireball right on your guys right in front of it even though its going to hit a lot more often that way.

Surely if it knows who enemies are, it knows who friendlies are. Blessing only affects friendly units. It shouldn't even look at enemy units for targetting it.

[thejeff]

Handled differently, I think. The targeting may just try every unit within range. Or maybe a random subset.
The evaluation distinguishes. For damage spells, I believe, damage done to the enemy boosts the score and damage done to your own reduces it.
So, in most cases it doesn't matter who the actual target is. What matters is who is affected. It won't target clumps of your troops with damage spells because that isn't effective. Many of your own get hurt and few or no enemies.

Much of this is guess work. I can see in the debug log that it does target units from both sides. I can see that an evaluation is done. I don't know how it picks the targets to try or what factors into the evaluation. It does look to me as if something is sketchy in the blessing evaluation, but I don't know enough of the details to say.

It would be easy to mod a workaround for this. Just add a H1 Self-Bless spell with AoE 1. Or change the current H1 Bless to AoE 1, but that would make it much harder for nations with only H1 priests to use sacred troops. I'd like to see the Self-Bless added to CBM.

BTW: one quick caution on casting bless twice to avoid this. If the first one works, the AI will choose another spell to cast. Most of the time this will just be some added fatigue, which is still can be problematic for a SC/thug, but I've also had calamities like shockwave thugs casting Ironskin.

[chrispedersen]

In the nations I have played I have never seen the AI not cast bless twice if scripted. And I've done it *thousands* of times.

Someone wrote a little mod for just this purpose. Bless cast on caster, and then chained a regular bless.

I do think that bless is screwy.

By the way .. anyone notie that darkness in cave citadels is back working?

[thejeff]

It really casts Bless twice if the only sacred unit is already blessed? I don't think I've ever seen it.
If you've got other sacred troops, sure, but I'm talking about a solo sacred thug.

[chrispedersen]

yeah, I don't use it on thugs so much - but if all leaders and commanders have been blessed, it will still cast again.

[thejeff]

if all leaders and commanders have been blessed, it will still cast again.

As long as there are unblessed sacred troops, sure. I don't think anything in that code distinguishes between troops and commanders.


Using H1 priests to bless sacred troops, I routinely just script 5xBless, Spells. They'll bless everyone in range and then banish or move forward. They don't keep spamming bless if there's no one in range who can benefit.

[chrispedersen]

if all leaders and commanders have been blessed, it will still cast again.

As long as there are unblessed sacred troops, sure. I don't think anything in that code distinguishes between troops and commanders.


Using H1 priests to bless sacred troops, I routinely just script 5xBless, Spells. They'll bless everyone in range and then banish or move forward. They don't keep spamming bless if there's no one in range who can benefit.


I usually script bless, bless, hold hold hold. And it does exactly that.

[Psycho]

100 precision is not "never misses" since nothing is absolute in dominions (except maybe magic duels). I've had paralysis, mind burns and other 100 precision spells miss in the past.

[thejeff]

Miss? Or not work. Many are MR resists. Maybe some can be parried?

As far as I know, 100 precision guarantees they hit the target square.

I'd be interested in seeing actual evidence of a 100 precision, 1 target spell missing.

[Dimaz]

I had that in Lunar Sea. My fountain missed Zeldor's golem with Magic Duel. And it was really miss, in debug logs that I posted in the thread it's obvious that MD lands one square up of golem. I think the turn still exists in my gmail archived messages.

[Kadelake]

I've had leech miss once. But that was about two years ago and I haven't seen it since.

[Psycho]

Miss. The graphic in the battle shows hitting the adjacent square and I'm sure the log would confirm this, but I never bothered checking. I also have all my turns archived but I'm not going to go through them to find these situations. If it happens again, maybe I'll remember and post here.

[chrispedersen]

I've had the AoV miss - (and not due to movement). The dude just stood there.

[Festin]

Happened right now: I am besieging an enemy castle, and get a report from that province, that a Gadite rebel sneaked into a temple and freed some blood slaves. So, he sneaked into an enemy temple inside a besieged castle, and somehow managed to free some of MY blood slaves. I do not know how did he manage to do that, clearly we have a very complicated plot at work here.

This was probably reported before me, but I just found this amusing.

[Edi]

Happened right now: I am besieging an enemy castle, and get a report from that province, that a Gadite rebel sneaked into a temple and freed some blood slaves. So, he sneaked into an enemy temple inside a besieged castle, and somehow managed to free some of MY blood slaves. I do not know how did he manage to do that, clearly we have a very complicated plot at work here.

This was probably reported before me, but I just found this amusing.
Ownership of sieged provinces causes certain events to behave strangely. This is another instance of essentially the same issue.

[hoo]

Is there a link to the bug where the battle replay differs significantly from the map/message report. IE, in the replay I lost the fight. On the map and on the message report, I won the battle. My suspicion is that the replay is bugged b/c I had killed all the troops and 6/15 commanders or so but his army kept fighting. Mine eventually fled on the replay but were still in possession of the castle on the map.

[chrispedersen]

Known bug, oft reported. Search the bug list ..

[Eximius Sus]

But like it's annoying man.

[Squirrelloid]

cast leprosy on a castle i was besieging and it diseased my troops instead of the defending army. Spell specifically says enemy army, and other spells like this will target the defending army when you're besieging.

[Dimaz]

In the last turn of Sharivar game, I teleported 2 commanders to some enemy province, one of them had Staff of Storms. However there was no Storm during fight. Here is the log part regarding this issue:

item Staff of Storms casting autospell Storm (cr0)
Autospell is Storm
castspell: cnr744 spl288 (Storm) vis0 x6 y24 spldmg1
vis 0 xvis -1
blastsqr: unr17146 x6 y24 aoe0 dmg1 eff81 spc1073741824 as10247 al9
affectvic vic17146 hv0
hitunit 17146 17146 dmg1 spec1073741824 ba2
Enchantment
*** Warning: out of ench
hitunit: out of ench
setupsquads end (check=241433822)

Also, some time ago I had another bug which I was too lazy to report here alone. Spells with Prec 100 can miss the target occasionally. In particular, I had Magic Duel miss.

...
(placing Zeldor's Golem)
auto placement player 8
deploycom Frateborn at 6 15
...
(casting md)
com Dimaz cast spell (favspell Magic Duel) (mayusegems 1)
...
(Golem targeted)
castspell: cnr504 spl271 (Magic Duel) vis3 x6 y15 spldmg999
vis 3 xvis 2
...
(md lands 1 square above Golem)
blastsqr: unr8294 x6 y14 aoe1 dmg999 eff27 spc1082130560 as10225 al9
...


Both turns are available if needed by IW.

[Edi]

Send them and the debug log to IW. I can't make heads or tails out of that, except it looks like something ran out of enchantments. In any case, Johan is the only one who can do anything about it.

[Soyweiser]

We all know the trouble of your mages going off script, casting a berzerking spell on your mages, and costing you the battle. But has anybody ever had a squad of troops going off script?

A squad of Jotun woodsmen set to attack flyers did this to me in the Bootcamp game. At first they performed good, hacking the flyers into submission. But when they cleared out their nearby squares of troops they decided to walk back to the Mammoths and get trampled to death. Instead of just stepping one step forward, and crushing the last unconscious commander. Why O why did the idiots choose to walk all the way back, and not simply take one step forward and win me the battle...

[Gandalf Parker]

what was the scripted commands?

[Soyweiser]

what was the scripted commands?
Attack flyers. Which they did until they whacked about 5/6 of all the flyers. Then they attacked the Caelum mammoths. (the sprite has wings, but they aren't flyers). Sadly the 1/6 they left alive was the only Caelum commander alive.

(I think it happened because under the hood the game selects targets as squads etc, and the single flyer looked less threatening than the 100gp+ trampelers. Sadly I was counting on my "attack large monsters" troops to take out the Mammoths. (A grave miscalculation btw, esp as these troops had the small goblins walking amongst them)).

At least Marignon got a laugh out of it.

[Gandalf Parker]

You might also have hit the linear lack-of-memory fact of the game.
Once they carry out their script, I think they might fall back into general AI. Once they attack (cavalry, archer, large, etc) if they finish that Im not sure if they search for another of that across the battlefield.

[thejeff]

I think commanders and troops behave differently when it comes to scripting. I know I've seen commanders on "Attack rear", particularly ones with flying, continue to jump to the rearmost units once there is no one within reach, so I think commanders actually pay attention to their orders even after taking out the first squad they target.

I've also seen troops with bows (F9 blessed Pegasi) switch to firing after routing the first squad despite having "attack closest" orders, which makes me think troops revert to default behavior after the first order is done. That was the most blatant example, but I've seen others.

[Soyweiser]

Lovely, the input string for naming commanders is one character longer than the string that is set for commanders. Cutting off your last char.

[Hurmio]

I encountered a strange thing in an ongoing MP game. I lost a battle involving my pretender and an enemy tartarian with some chaff. At the end my pretender retreated with noplace to go. But after the battle, i still had the province in question, with my pretender in still alive, although with some afflictions. The enemy lost the tartarian, as was also shown in the battle footage, but he also lost his Tomb King, which did not die in the footage. The surviving chaff retreated to a bordering province. In the footage the enemy (LA C'tis) did not rout or anything.

I was the defender and my pretender had cloud trapezed in just before the invading army came flying in (with the forged flying boats).

Now, is this a bug or is there something i'm not seeing? I did't find anything related from the bug index. Anyone familiar with this? We play on the llamaserver and are considering rollback.

[Calahan]

I encountered a strange thing in an ongoing MP game. I lost a battle involving my pretender and an enemy tartarian with some chaff. At the end my pretender retreated with noplace to go. But after the battle, i still had the province in question, with my pretender in still alive, although with some afflictions. The enemy lost the tartarian, as was also shown in the battle footage, but he also lost his Tomb King, which did not die in the footage. The surviving chaff retreated to a bordering province. In the footage the enemy (LA C'tis) did not rout or anything.

I was the defender and my pretender had cloud trapezed in just before the invading army came flying in (with the forged flying boats).

Now, is this a bug or is there something i'm not seeing? I did't find anything related from the bug index. Anyone familiar with this? We play on the llamaserver and are considering rollback.
This just sounds like a case of the battle report not matching the replay. Which can happen sometimes for no precise reason people can find (although making sure you have the exact same version of the mods the server is using fixes nine out of ten cases).

First thing to always check is if the battle report matches what you see on the map (completely ignore the battle replay). As the battle report is always reported correctly (in theory), and what you see on the map is always correct as well (in theory). So if these match up, then the game is fine, and it's just the replay that is wrong, and that is a well known problem.

So for your example, if the report shows that the Tomb King died, and it is not on the map anywhere (as extra confirmation), then it died, and the problem is the replay not matching the report. Which like I said, is well known.

If that is indeed the problem you have encountered, best advice is to re-download all the mods you are using. As that often fixes the problem (although sometimes it doesn't)

[Soyweiser]

(although making sure you have the exact same version of the mods the server is using fixes nine out of ten cases).


The reason for this is of course simple. If your mod gives your troops +50 hp, but the servers mod gives your troops -10 Hp. The local replays are not going to match the servers.

[Hurmio]

Thanks for the quick replies!

Battle report is indeed matching the situation on the map. Seems like both i and the player C'tis got the same replay. Thanks for clearing this up.

[Soyweiser]

Blood burst, requires B to cast, but uses 2 blood slaves. And a B mage can only use one blood slave. So the spell fails, and the caster casts another spell.

(The whole bug is: that spells can be set to use more gems than the path requirements of the spell. So the mage isn't actually powerful enough to cast the spell).

[Soyweiser]

The Illwinter spell can randomly create different attacks. Including an attack by a niefel giant (Not a Jarl) and some winter wolves.

But, the winter wolves are mindless magical beings. So they just stand around and disappear.

A solution would be to just give the Niefel giants magical leadership. So when Illwinter GoR's a giant. The winter wolves don't rout.