Balance Mod Available for SE:V

[mrscrogg]

Captain , how about incorporating SJ's swirlly warpoints to your mod { if he approves } - I think it would enhance the visuals

[Dizzy]

mrscrogg said:
Captain , how about incorporating SJ's swirlly warpoints to your mod { if he approves } - I think it would enhance the visuals



Seconded

[Caduceus]

Thirded.

And for the record, we shouldn't refer to this mod file as "BM 1.0X" as it totally brings to mind other things...

[Shadowstar]

Thankfully Kwok didn't call it "Balance Dissapointing Stock Mod"...

[Baron Munchausen]

Some other major AI issues besides the 'stream of ships' problem:

So far it looks like every AI researches fighters and builds one or more 'Light Carriers' -- and then does nothing with them. They just sit there, usually over the homeworld, and never get stocked with fighters or deployed. Isn't this a bit wasteful?

Neutrals will do the same thing with colonizers. Even when the single system that a neutral has access to is fully colonizefd it will keep two or even three colonizers on standby like it's expecting a new planet to be discovered. This is very expensive for an 'empire' consisting of a single system.

Nitpicks:

Why is the Ionic Pulse Missile not placeable in units, while the Capital Ship Missile and the Plasma Missile are? In stock, it is just like the other missiles. ???

The field of torpedo weapons seems to have one more level than is needed. I researched Gamma Pulse Torpedo to level 6 (tech level 20) and there is still one more level. If I researched that, I'd get nothing because the GPT has maxed out. That would waste a lot of research points for some stupid AI that doesn't know any better.

[Captain Kwok]

I re-wrote the ship purchase scheme for v1.04 - so the AI will now only build colony ships for colonizables plus a spare for every 5 colonizable planets it's recorded. This will benefit neutrals - as long as they don't go and do something stupid and trade system maps. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

The Carrier is actually waiting for even fighters before joining a fleet. This is usually 50% of it's available cargo space. The problem is it's hard trying to get a single planet to contain a concentrated surplus of fighters.

The last two items are typos. At one point, torpedo tech did extend to 21 levels, but I cut a level out on the spreadsheet but never the data file itself. I'll make IPM placeable on units.

[aegisx]

Is there an AmINeutral() function? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Phoenix-D]

Its actually "am I not a neutral", but yeah.

[aegisx]

Couldn't that be used to prevent AI players from building colony ships for systems outside their own?

[Phoenix-D]

It probably could. Its actuually what you thought, though:
Sys_Are_We_Neutral_Empire

[Raapys]

Does that actually make any sense, though? Neutrals sticking to one solar system, I mean.

What would, in my opinion, make far more sense, would be if the neutrals didn't have spaceflight at all, thus effectively just being populations for conquer, which when conquered would provide the conquerer with the unique abilities of that race.

[Captain Kwok]

Containing them to a single planet means they will put up even less of a fight - making capturing their population that much easier...

[Baron Munchausen]

Maybe the carrier ought to behave like a human captain and go roving for fighters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It's simple enough to make the ship go and pickup fighters, isn't it? Even better, invent a new class of transport: "Military Supply Transport" and have this go around collecting fighters from planets and then delivering them to carriers near the 'front lines'. That would save the carriers from having to travel out of the way themselves. They could be sent to militarily useful locations immediately.

[Raapys]

Containing them to a single planet means they will put up even less of a fight - making capturing their population that much easier...


I'm just not sure what the purpose of 'neutral' empires is if they're just going to be like regular empires but with a handicap, being confined to one system( which by itself doesn't make any sense ). Why, then, not just remove them completely and go with only regular empires?

[Tim_Ward]

Question: can fighters be prevented from launching at all, and only deployed to defend a planet during combat? The player can do this, why not the AI?


Why, then, not just remove them completely and go with only regular empires?



Actually, this is why I usually do. I've never felt that neutral empires add much to the game.

[Raapys]

Yah, but that was my point; perhaps it would be possible to change them so they actually did add something ( interesting ) to the game.

Perhaps they could be made to be something akin to the antarans in MoO, having advanced technology but few ships and only one colony, or perhaps something else entirely. I just think the existence of the whole 'neutral empires' option should be taken advantage of.

[Baron Munchausen]

One more thing ...

Why aren't there plague warheads for drones? Now that the plague levels work, it makes perfect sense to have the capability to launch long-range 'sabotage' like this. You can mount the plague bomb on an anti-planet drone, I guess. But since the plague bomb seems to be a 'seeker' like any other (easily shot down by any reasonable amount of PD) I think the warhead is appropriate and necessary. It's simple enough to setup, just like neutrino or tachyon of ionic warheads for mines and drones.

BTW, have you actually tested the Alloy Burner missile? When I looked in the damage types file, I didn't see anything that indicated if the 'Burn Armor' damage type actually worked yet. It looks like a blank entry. And the Xiati AI isn't using it, so I can't say if it really works.

[Captain Kwok]

The key entry is the 0 internal damage for the Alloy Burner missile. However I neglected to make it skip shields, which is why the damage amount was lower than you'd expect. Anyway, the idea was that a temporal ship might employ Shield Accelerators and ABMs to remove shields/armor quickly. Although thinking about it, not sure what advantage removing armor might convey... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Plague Warheads are a good idea, but it might be too effective. Plague Bombs on Drones don't suck though - they're only 20kT and fire every 2 seconds, so a small group of plague drones could still plague a planet even with heavy PD. That's a reasonable compromise given the nastiness of a plague.

[Baron Munchausen]

Yeah, I wasn't sure what that entry meant since I don't remember how the defaults work.

Right now, heavy armor is a problem for Temporal tech. Having a specific weapon that attacks it is good. If Emissive armor does stack as you say, then lots of Emissive Armor would be a specific (and very effective) exploit against Temporal tech without the Alloy Burner missile to break it down. The Temporal Shifter 'skips' armor but has a much lower rate of fire, and shorter range, than most other weapons.

I still want a plague warhead for my drones. Guess I'll have to mod it myself if you won't do it. I'm already adding my preferred 'seeker upgrades with technology' changes where seekers get ECM and Armor tech bonuses.

Hmm, what do you call a mod of a mod?

[Captain Kwok]

I didn't say I wouldn't do Plague Warheads, but it's something that I would wait until the next save-game breaking version.

I'll probably fix up the ABM to do something like 2x or 4x damage to armor and let it do just normal damage versus shields. Then the Shield Accelerator / ABM combo would work much better since they could peel the protection of a target off faster than with normal weapons, and other normal ships could mop up the internals.

[Suicide Junkie]

What about 25% penetration vs shields and 4x damage to armor?

That way, it does normal damage to armor until the shields fail http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Captain Kwok]

I'm hoping to get v1.04 out on Wednesday. Everything is seemingly ok now, just making sure the AI is actually improved and the purchase system is ok. For a long time I had a problem with the vehicle purchase system I stuck in. It's basically a demand driven system where there is a target number of a design type wanted and attached to the design there is a demand variable per vehicle wanted, plus a reduce demand variable for the number built or queued. So essentially each design type gets a demand number and the highest demand gets built first etc. Anyway there was a problem with units being added to BSYs due to the queue sort, which caused the AI not to build anything at a certain point (since BSYs had no cargo space). It took a bit of trial and error to adjust the sort so BSYs would be last on the queue list for adding units. So it works as intended now, just some testing to make sure the numbers I choose give good variety in designs.

[Baron Munchausen]

Why would this be a problem? Units built by a BSY should automatically drop into the planet's cargo. They did in SE IV. And AIs should only build a BSY over a planet. Only humans would be clever enough to build a BSY elsewhere if the need arose (unless you deliberately scripted it -- but then you'd also have to deal with the potential problems).

[Captain Kwok]

The larger problem is that I can't return if the queue is a BSY and get its ID. If I could do that then I could check if it's in the same sector as a colony and then check for space on the colony etc. Also, if I could return that it was a BSY, then I could at least write a condition not to consider the available space and just hope the planet had the space.

---

Overall I have the AI building a nice mix of ships and there fleeting them together in decent combinations. It's also building a lot more units at planets then v1.03. Plus, I made a few tweaks to the load cargo routine, so the AI more actively moves it's carriers around to pick up fighters - in fact it actually has a pretty good record of loading carriers 80-100% full before adding them to fleets.

[Baron Munchausen]

Before you release 1.04 there is one more nitpick. Why isn't there a Stellar Manipulations design in the designtypes list??? When I finally got to Stellar Manipulations in my game I went up and down the list looking for something equivalent. This is in stock. Why did you remove it?

[Raapys]

It's not in my stock O_O

But yeah, would be a fair addition; or better yet, add the various stellar manipulation types, not just a single 'Stellar Manipulation' type.

[Captain Kwok]

There was never one in stock to start with. I suppose I have two options though, add a Stellar Manipulation Ship type or add the dozen or so "Open Warp Point" / "Destroy Storm" types the AI designates - this would enable the auto-complete for the player for any type of stellar manipulation ship.

What I really really need to do though is lobby Aaron to remove alpha-sort on the design types list!

[aegisx]

lobby him to put a Filter on the simulator page too. it gets way to crowded with ships.

[Baron Grazic]

Hi Kwok
With all the changes of the components in the next patch, will you be considering changing any BalMod components to follow suit?

[Phoenix-D]

Not sure what the point of that would be.

[Captain Kwok]

Baron Grazic said:With all the changes of the components in the next patch, will you be considering changing any BalMod components to follow suit?

There are two reasons why I wouldn't. First being, I essentially did that already, but also because the stock weapons are configured against each other differently than in the mod. For example, all 3 types of torpedo are available right away in stock, while they are staggered in the mod etc.

[Baron Grazic]

Cool, I thought that would be the answer, but thought I'd check anyway. Thanks.

[Raapys]

Kwok, I was thinking. Would it be unimaginably hard to get the AI to use a net of 'spy satellites' throughout the galaxy?

I.e. have the AIs deploy a few satellites, with the latest sensor tech and a weapon or so, spreading them out in a sensible way in the systems they have explored. This would provide the AIs with much better information on other empires' ship movements, thus they'd be in a far better situation when deciding what orders to give their ships.

[Captain Kwok]

The AI should be distributing satellites to WPs more effectively in the upcoming patch. This will help the issue somewhat. Dropping sats in unowned systems will be a little more tricky.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings.

I've finally got around to uploading v1.04 of the mod. There's lots of little fixes and tweaks, changes to mounts, added FQM, and of course some needed AI enhancements.

Next on the agenda is v1.05, which will probably be focused on employing many of the new script functions from the next SE:V patch, plus anything I broke in v1.04...!

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Version 1.04 (28 February 2007)
-------------------------------

1. Fixed - Error in number of tech levels for Crystalline Dreadnought
2. Fixed - Inconsistency in cost for Crystalline Small Fighter
3. Fixed - Bases with Quantum Reactors were not adding Supply Storage components
4. Fixed - Organic vehicle hulls were not receiving their regeneration bonus amounts
5. Fixed - Error in Baseship defense penalty
6. Fixed - Miscellaneous seeker weapon errors
7. Changed - Increased damage amount for Anti-Matter Torpedo
8. Changed - Decreased planet defense modifier
9. Changed - Increased damage factor for weapons and facilities to be functional
10. Changed - Reduced ECM defense bonus amount to 4% per level
11. Changed - Reduced size of mounts: Large is 1x, Heavy is 1.5x, and Massive is 2x size
12. Changed - Increased damage bonuses for mounts
13. Changed - Added range bonuses to ship mounts
14. Changed - Added accuracy bonus for Large Satellite Mount
15. Changed - Costs for ship mounts are now fixed amounts rather than increasing per level
16. Changed - Ionic Pulse Missiles can now be placed on Satellites and Weapon Platforms
17. Fixed - Error in number of tech levels for Religious Studies
18. Changed - Slightly reduced number of tech levels for Resupply tech area
19. Changed - Small change to tech requirements for Quantum Reactor
20. Changed - Increased the research cost for Applied Research
21. Changed - Adjusted damage type and damage amounts for Alloy Burner Missiles. They now do 2x damage to armor.
22. Changed - Increased the number of tech levels for Alloy Burner Missiles.
23. Changed - Increased tech area cost for Applied Research
24. Fixed - Error in starting range for Capital Ship Missile
25. Fixed - Error in starting range for Plasma Missile
26. Changed - Tweaked score calculation
27. Changed - Emissive Armor ability reduced (Temporary until fixed)
28. Fixed - The Gravitational Quantum Resonator's range was too high
29. Changed - Incorporated Fyron's Quadrant Mod with a few small changes
30. Changed - AI will now use a mixed variety of ship sizes
31. Changed - AI will also scrap obsolete Satellites in addition to Weapon Platforms
32. Added - Patrol and Scout Ship AI design types
33. Added - AI will now scrap obsolete ships
34. Changed - AI will consider racial trait technologies in choosing Colony Types
35. Added - Updated AI Scripts
</pre><hr />

[Captain Kwok]

Just an FYI - you'll probably want to start a new game with v1.04 - some of the FQM additions have shifted around system objects and you'll get errors if you try and continue.

[Atrocities]

Thanks CK.

[aegisx]

Just checked out 1.4. Looks very nice with the new effects! What would you think about slowing down the warp swirl...

[aegisx]

Have you checked out Time Distortion Burst (and Temporal Tachyon Cannon)? They seem to have a short range and it just stops (no trail off in power). When letting the AI run battles with ships that have these, they just follow the enemy not shooting while being shot at. In the later levels it improves a little, but for the first 5 or so, not much.

Just checking if that is the intended effect.

[Captain Kwok]

It might have something to do with the strategy being used on the ship. A lot of the ships stutter when they reach their desired range and this either causes them just to be out of range to fire or to fire their bolt weapons, which end up being just short of the target when they max out on range.

There are a few range fields in settings.txt that I might be able to experiment with to see if I can get the ships to be a bit closer before they fire and avoid the above situation.

[Hippocrates]

Captain Kwok said:
Just an FYI - you'll probably want to start a new game with v1.04 - some of the FQM additions have shifted around system objects and you'll get errors if you try and continue.



Heya Ck, just a quick question.

Would this be a problem for currently running PBW games wishing to update to the newest Malfador patch about to come out (like 1.30 or there abouts)?

Thanks,
-Hippo

[Captain Kwok]

I don't recall any changes to the stock data files that break save game compatibility.

To elaborate on the source of the problem between v1.03 and v1.04 for the Balance Mod, it's new entries in StellarObjectTypes.txt that shifted various items around which will cause index errors when you click on certain stellar objects.

[Hippocrates]

Okay, cool. Just to be clear, what I meant to ask was if there was any reason we couldn't use 1.03 with the latest Malfador patch (I remember in the past you've had to tweak the mod following Malfador releases). From your answer, I guess it'll work.

Thanks!

[se5a]

if there's a problem it's trivial to fix yourself.
normaly it's just a line in the settings.txt that's missing.

[Captain Kwok]

v1.03 or v1.04 will need it's settings.txt updated to work with the forthcoming SE:V v1.3x patch.

[mrscrogg]

Captain , on your next patch will you be upgrading Fyron's FQM to " Beta 6 " ? Thanks

[Caduceus]

Dunno if this is just me, but in Balance (I'll check in stock in a second), but I am not getting facility/cargo space on planets after I colonize them...

Seems to be in Balance, but not stock - see attached figure.

[Captain Kwok]

Is there population on the planet?

[Caduceus]

There is no XXX/kT available on each planet.

I *think* there is a pop, let me restart a game and try again... I'm building facilities...

[Caduceus]

No, it happens on my homeworld at the start of the game. See the attachment from my first post to see what I mean.

[Captain Kwok]

Did you alter the mod in anyway?

[se5a]

try reinstalling BM?

[Caduceus]

No, I don't think I have. I can try reinstalling today.

[Caduceus]

I don't know. I reinstalled, but it is still doing it.

Hrm...

[Caduceus]

Okay, I completely deleted it and it seems to be working again. Problem solved.

[Captain Kwok]

I apologize for the delay. I'm just fiddling around with a few changes in the scripts that I need to finish and test before I can post v1.05. Originally the patch was to be released on Monday so I undertook a few changes to research and construction that were going to take Fri/Sat to work out. The research part is done, but the construction script needs to be debugged. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

I've finally posted v1.05 of the Balance Mod for download. There were a few items I needed to resolve with the AI scripts before I could post, which was the main source of the delay.

Note that this version is not save game compatible with previous versions. It will extract to a new folder labeled 'Balance Mod v105+', which will be the default location for future save game compatible versions.

You can grab the download here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Version 1.05 (25 March 2007)
----------------------------

1. Changed - Increased cost for Chemistry tech area
2. Changed - Increased cost for Physics tech area
3. Changed - Increased cost for Industry tech area
4. Changed - Slight increase to Depleted Uranium Cannon damage amount
5. Changed - Added ordnance usage to Planetary Napalm
6. Fixed - Error in Planet Combat Defense Modifier
7. Fixed - Some levels of Biological Weapons did not give any results
8. Changed - Reduced number of tech levels for Biological Weapons
8. Changed - Increased cost for Plasma Missiles tech area
9. Fixed - Fighter combat speeds were not adjusted for new engine system
10. Fixed - Error in damage amount for Massive Weapon Platform Mount
11. Changed - Increased cost for Military Science tech area
12. Changed - Torpedo Weapons now requires Military Science level 3
13. Changed - Ship Capture now requires Military Science level 2
14. Changed - Reduced cost of Supply and Ordnance Storage components
15. Fixed - Error in Combat To Hit penalty for Space Stations
16. Changed - Increased maximum speed for all Carrier ships
17. Changed - Decreased and ground damage and range for Point-Defense Weapons
18. Fixed - Error in range for Point-Defense Blaster
19. Fixed - Massive Ship mount should require a ship of 1250kT or larger
20. Changed - Point-Defense and some small weapons can now target Mines in combat
21. Updated - Incorporated FQM Beta 8 components in the Balance Mod
22. Updated - Improved AI construction queue purchasing
23. Updated - Enhanced AI diplomacy with less static treaties and responses
24. Added - Introduced fear modifier in AI diplomacy
25. Fixed - A few errors in anger levels used to determine diplomatic responses
26. Updated - AI will prioritize tech area research during times of war
27. Added - Construction Yard colony type for the AI
28. Fixed - AI was not adding Ordnance Storage for Carriers
29. Fixed - AI was not scrapping ships
30. Updated - AI Scripts
</pre><hr />

[aegisx]

Is there something in here that will prevent the AI from doing stuff during a missed PBW turn?

[Captain Kwok]

Under ministers, there is an option that is on by default for the AI to play in the player's absence.

[Kamog]

Thank you very much, Captain Kwok. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings.

I'll be away for a few days - with no access to a computer/internet. I'll be back on Thursday night.

[geoschmo]

I've added Balance Mod 1.05+ support to PBW.

[gregebowman]

Boy, I'm glad another version of the mod came out. After I installed the 1.33 patch, I got a surprise when I tried to install the 1.04 balance mod. I was really getting used to it, and had to start a brand new game using the stock parameters. Can't wait to try this one out.

[Captain Kwok]

Captain Kwok said:
Greetings.

I'll be away for a few days - with no access to a computer/internet. I'll be back on Thursday night.

Just an fyi - I'm back. Probably take a couple of days to get caught up on everything.

[Randallw]

I gather it now includes FQM. The new planets and storms appear nice.

[Q]

I started a new game with version 1.05 and so far no major problems. The AI seems quite efficient.
Good work Kwok!

Some small observations:

1.) Treaty proposals by the AI are very frequent: In a game with 15 AI empires I get 3-4 treaty proposals (including from empires I already have a treaty) per turn, which seems too much IMO.
2.) An AI, which is at war with me, is proposing a treaty which includes only the non-aggression, but without specification (neutral systems, all systems, colonization allowed). Has such a treaty any effect at all?
3.) Combat reports are quite often included in the treaty proposals and I accepted this with several AI empires. Now I get several times the same combat report about my own combats in the log. As I doubt the AI gets any benefit from combat reports, you might exclude this point from the AI treaty proposals.

Thank you for your work!

[Captain Kwok]

There should be about a 1-in-5 chance for a treaty proposal to be made if you don't have a treaty in place and about a 1-in-20 chance for changes to a treaty. But I guess with 15 players, there's the potential for a lot of chatting. I wonder though if the 1-in-5 new treaty chance is being checked even if there is a treaty in place... hmm...

That non-aggression treaty would be broken. It also means I have a small error in that script. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

I included combat reports because I tried to include all elements in the AI's routine that players might want. You may consider revising your treaties not to have combat reports if it's too much info for you - which I suspect it would in a 15-player game.

[Tnargversion2]

Yes I must say I actually had one of those just one more turn moments last night, well actually about 30 of them. Good job to Captain Kwok and Fyron your additions have added a tremendous amount.

This is finally a fun game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Q]

One more question:

Where do I find the script functions that determine the AI mood toward another empire?

Several empires are getting aggressive and I wonder why. I didn't reach the mega evil empire yet.

And as I have the higher score shouldn't the mood be "fearful" instead of aggressive?

[Captain Kwok]

Yeah, I sort of made the comparisons for determining the additional moods backwards. There in the Script_AI_Politics file.

[Baron Munchausen]

Oops, time for a patch? 1.05a coming soon?

[Captain Kwok]

I blame it on the fact that the function is setup to calculate the moods for each race against yours and not your mood towards the other races. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Raapys]

Kwoky, has anything been done with the whole fog of war vs AI thingy? Haven't taken the time for a real game yet, so wondering if I should go with sensors on or off.

[Ed Kolis]

Is the Engineers culture supposed to INCREASE maintenance costs?

[Baron Munchausen]

Hmm, looks like more than AI mood is reversed.

[Captain Kwok]

Ed Kolis said:Is the Engineers culture supposed to INCREASE maintenance costs?

It is the way I put it in. I needed a negative factor for engineers so I choose maintenance because I figured they were extra diligent in making sure their ships were in good order. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Raapys]

Almost makes sense O_O But they should also have alot better ships, since they'll be 'better engineers', right?

[Santiago]

I think it should go back to the way it was for engineers. Give them some other negative factor. If they are extra diligent then less maintenance should be required because of that diligence.

[GuyOfDoom]

I'm curious why everything HAS to have a negative factor. Couldn't they just have a smaller positive factor?

[Suicide Junkie]

That's the neutral choice... zeros all around.

[Q]

Two questions regarding economical achievements:

1.) What is the difference between your amount of "(-1 - ([%Level%] - 1))" and "-[%Level%]" in the standard SE V?
2.) As far as I observed the maintenance is reduced by base value multiplied by 1-(amount/100). At maximum level 10 this gives a 10% reduction of maintenance, which is 18% instead of 20% for ships. Isn't that too little of an effect? In standard SE V you have 20 levels and therefore a reduction from 25% to 20% maintenance for ships, which ist still not much IMO.

[Captain Kwok]

I think I initially changed it to check if there was something about the formula causing the maintenance reduction not to be applied long ago in beta (it turned out that cultural achievements bonuses at that time were not being applied) but never switched it back.

I thought at some point it was taken right off maintenance, ie from 25 to 15 for 10% reduction. Anyway, I probably need to revise a few of those cultural achievement bonuses since I haven't touched them since v0.70ish?

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings! Just to keep those interested parties in the know...

Here's a list of the items in the mix for v1.06:

New AI items:
- Medical Ships implemented (Done)
- Remote Mining ships implemented (Not done)
- New AI Ministers (Almost done)
-- Add modifier facilities when appropriate to existing colonies
-- Optimize breathable populations
-- Separate ministers for unit and ship construction
- Tweaks to AI diplomacy and AI states (Almost Done)
- Improvements to AI attack orders (Not done)
- Improvements to Cultural Achievements (Almost Done)

Note you'll need to start a new game to take advantage of the new ministers, since they are apparently stored in the save game. Overall the AI should be a lot better at maximizing its colonies with this patch.

I'm really pushing to get it out tomorrow night - it really depends on if the scripts I wrote at work will function as intended when I get home. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Q]

One point you might have a look at is the AI use of mines and minesweeping. In version 1.05 I did not see any AI using mines or minesweepers (at least to a extent I would realize).

[DrewBlack]

Also how about the AI using more research.

In the last couple of games against 9-10 AI players thier research points dont seem to increase as the game progresses.

Thanks
Keep up the excellant work Kwok
Drew

[Captain Kwok]

Depending on the size of the quadrant in your game, it's likely they've plateaued in terms of colonies. The next patch will at least help they turn over facilities on their colonies to improve production, including optimizing breathable populations to undome planets. I'm also pushing ahead other colonization techs to help keep them growing in the early mid-game.

I'm pushing more Mine Sweepers for them, particularly in terms of them being available in fleets.

[Tnargversion2]

Don't know if this was something caused by the 1.33 patch or the BM1.05 patch, but when you go to add or adjust strategies from the screen (I think it is the Empire Screen), for some reason some of the items that were changeble are locked in. Example changing the attack range for fighters from point blank to short range, it won't let you, or changing the percent lost before retreating from 50% to say 80%, locked again.

Also the AI is incrediably friendly offering incrediable treaties after only 5 to 10 turns of me knowing them. I had one race give me 15 seperate technologies in one turn, another 8 the next, bringing my backwoods technologically primitive race with a score of 16 in turn 80 or something into the 1st place powerhouse in less than two turns.

I now play as a xenophobe isolationist that has nothing to do with the AI.

[BlueTemplar]

Don't know if this was something caused by the 1.33 patch or the BM1.05 patch, but when you go to add or adjust strategies from the screen (I think it is the Empire Screen), for some reason some of the items that were changeble are locked in. Example changing the attack range for fighters from point blank to short range, it won't let you, or changing the percent lost before retreating from 50% to say 80%, locked again.



This is a bug introduced in 1.33

[Captain Kwok]

Still working on v1.06 tonight. I have the remote mining functions for the AI working ok, except a problem that I have is that I can't issue any sort of order for the mining ship to stay put in the asteroid field once it gets there! There's only a few orders accessible via the scripts at this time and sentry isn't one of them... will think of a workaround...

Also working out a few kinks with the scrap a facility to build a modifier facility routine as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Baron Munchausen]

Make the AI build mining BASES. The maintenance is lower, and you don't need to issue any 'order' to make them stay put. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif You just need a minister smart enough to check them every turn and see if they are 'making a profit' or not. When they cease to be profitable, send a SYS to scrap them. Are there script functions to check the percent of minerals, organics, and radioactives of a given object or sector?

[Captain Kwok]

I'll probably put in remote mining base support in v1.07. It'll take a bit of time to work out details for how to get SY ships to build them.

[se5a]

remote mining transport ships are passable till you get transports that will fit a space yard.

is it possable to get the AI to retro build?

[BlueTemplar]

What about mining sats?

[Romulus68]

Can you add better Fighter support to the BM?

Making the roles as Bomber, Fighter and Intercepter more distinct.

IE.....When you create a fighter its labeled as one of the 3 choices, so that it can be given different general orders (range, priority targets, etc). Its not really a programming issue, but just a new subclass for the fighters. Like Attack ship versus defense ship.

I haven't looked at this in game, yet. Just started a new PBW game (1.33 BM1.05) on turn 5'ish. If this was added then sorry for the post! :-)

[aegisx]

Kwok,

Any plans to push some of the logic (or modifiers) that deal with what kind of ship to build out to the race files? Right now, in order to make a more custom race, it seems like you'ld have to modify the core functions to add special cases for those races.

[Captain Kwok]

The races are actually more distinct than you think. The early game where everyone still has DUC or CSM is misleading... once you get to the mid-game, the AI races will really start to differentiate in terms of weapon choices, preferred design types, and diplomacy. Of course, there's always more work to be done - which includes more varied designs, different speech files, and changes to play styles.

It's up to the player to design their fighters for the roles. Players have reported back to me the various merits of different fighter designs from torpedo bombers to direct fire light fighters etc. You can set your strategies accordingly for the design type to maximize their potential. I can add a few more design type names for fighters though, since they're needed by the AI to mix up their fighter usage.

[aegisx]

Kwok,

Say I want to make a race that makes a lot of kamacazi ships, how do I do that from the race files?

[Captain Kwok]

I use boolean variables to set whether or not a race will use a certain design type, such as kamikaze attack ships. Currently only a few races are set to use kamikaze attack ships, such as the Xi'Chung, but you won't really see them in significant numbers unless they are on the defensive for a number of turns in a row.

[aegisx]

I saw the demand variables, if they were accessible from the race files, we could influence the kind of ships they build, right?

[Captain Kwok]

In theory I could create a text file that is read by the AI script to get demand values for an AI. That would require no re-compiling scripts on behalf of a player who edited the data file. I wouldn't mind doing something like that in the future.

[aegisx]

That would be great. I would think we would need fields for an amount needed modifier,demand variables and ship size to use.

[Ed Kolis]

Whoa, AI scripts are in themselves "moddable" - they can read external text files to configure themselves? That is just... wow...

[Captain Kwok]

Yes. Currently the only call for an external data file is with the speech files.

[Phoenix-D]

It occurs to me that we could write the scripts to emulate the SE4 AI system, if we really wanted to. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[se5a]

Kwok can you include the 3rd party shipsets? even if you just use the default AI on them...

with the "allow main empires" set to FALSE these canot be used on PBW unless the host knows to change this setting to TRUE for the first turn, and it's complicated enough to get a game started on PBW as it is.

[Captain Kwok]

Why does the host have to allow main empires? If a player has setup their empire file with a custom set, I'd assume they would had to add the set to the mod (as per the readme instructions) for it to even be picked with the empire file. Or might this be causing problems because PBW doesn't have any sets installed with the mod so the slots are off etc?

[Q]

Kwok one more impression from 1.05:

The AI's seem to manage their empires pretty well, ship designs are good as far as I can tell and they expand very well. Good work.
The one big weakness I see in my current game however is that the AI attack not enough: They have a lot of ships but seem to be afraid to attack. Probably they went into "defensive state", but even if the AI loses most of it's ships, it would still be better attacking than awaiting the attack. In SE attacking was always a better strategy than defending IMO, but for the AI is vital to keep attacking.
And as long as the mega evil empire event does not terminate war between different AI empires, it would be very good, if the AI attacks would concentrate on the strongest enemy, which is mostly the human empire.

Thank you for your good work!

[se5a]

Or might this be causing problems because PBW doesn't have any sets installed with the mod so the slots are off etc?



yes that's the problem, except it's not that the slots are off, the shipset just gets changed to a random one that the host DOES have in the mod dir. once the first turn is done, then if PBW does not have the shipset that the host set it too, then it will get randomly changed again.

so, with allow main empires FALSE, the host and PBW BOTH have to have the shipset that teh player installed installed into the mod empire dir.

if the host switches the allow main empires to TRUE and has the shipset installed in the default shipset folder, then it's all good, since PBW (currently) has all the 3rd party shipsets installed in teh default empires dir. this line (like the overide slots line) only needs to be TRUE for the first turn.

[Q]

Another feedback:

Supplies seem to be a problem for the AI. I find quite a lot of ships and entire fleets with no supplies left. My suggestion would be to include one or two solar collectors in the ship designs.

[Captain Kwok]

I'm currently working on altering how states are entered by adding a modifier based on number of allies, enemies, and wars. For example, an AI with lots of allies is more likely to be aggressive with an enemy, while an AI in a lot of wars with few allies will adopt a much more defensive stance.

I really need to improve fleet composition. Supply ships don't seem to be spread out in multiple fleets very well, same problem with mine sweepers and repair ships too.

[aegisx]

Kwok,

While your doing that, could you try to make the modifiers available for change from the race files?

I was going to ad the ship demand modifier today. To start you can alter the base demand. he add more fields once that works.

[aegisx]

How do you convert a value from a data file to a long/int? There does not appear to be a Sys_Get_Datafile_Field_Value_As_Long() or sys_convert_long().

Nevermind, found it.

[Raapys]

How does the entire supply thing work for the AI anyway? Does it check fleet supplies before carrying out an order? Will it try to return to friendly space when getting low on supplies?

Perhaps there should be made, if there isn't already, some sort of Get Supplies order. So, if a fleet is getting low on supplies, it will find a friendly system with a supply base and remain there, not moving, until it has a certain % of the supply storage filled. Then it will go back to whatever other order has the highest priority.

[javaslinger]

Ok,given that normal weapons are particularly ineffective in BM, what weapons are suggested? Planetary Napalm is bugged versus ringed planets... Are other bombardment weapons similarly buggged or at least considered 'bolt' weapons..

Both myself and my opponent have watched our fleets get decimated by little planets with as little as 2 weapons platforms.... Clearly another strategy is in order.

We are using Balance Mod 1.05 so I'm particularly interested in suggestions relating to this mod.

Thanks,

Javaslinger

[Captain Kwok]

More or less any long range seeking weapon (torpedoes, missiles) or any beam weapon (APB, PPB, High Energy Discharge Weapons etc) seem to be ok.

[Baron Munchausen]

Well, I have finally started a new game with 1.05 but unfortunately I chose simultaneous mode. SE V is unplayable in simultaneous mode! I literally cannot play more than one turn at a time without exiting and restarting the game. It will inevitably crash if you try to process more than one turn at a time. Is it this bad for everyone? No wonder people are pissed off.

At 60 turns in, I've decided to give up because it's so tedious to play by saving and exiting after each turn. So, with only 60 turns to go on, I can only give a slight review. Even early in the game the AI is now shockingly efficient. I was struggling respond to what the AI was doing the whole time. Part of that might be my unfamiliarity with simultaneous mode http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif but I also selected the option to make all scores visible and could see that I was never number one in the list. AIs were always building more ships, settling more planets. If I were able to continue this game I suspect I would lose.

[se5a]

yeah baron, I've sent aaron a savegame on that problem already.

If there were quickstart options, I might have caught it before the 1.33 patch... but alas, there's no quickstart options.

[mrscrogg]

Captain , when you release BM version 1.06 will it include FQM beta 5.00 version 10 and the new Multimedia Pack ? Thanks for a great mod , it's the only one I play now !

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

I've posted v1.06 of the Balance Mod. Not too many changes in terms of data files, but lots of AI improvements including management of mixed populations, scrapping facilities to add modifier facilities, and lots of little changes to the AI's ministers in general. You'll have to start a new game if you want the AI to function properly with the new ministers.

Balance Mod Webpage: http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

I've included instructions in the readme.txt for players to incorporate the latest versions of FQM that require the Multimedia Pack.

There's also an updated tech chart for v1.06 on the Balance Mod page.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Version 1.06 (27 April 2007)
----------------------------

1. Fixed - Error in cost for Supply Storage components
2. Fixed - Error in amount for Advanced Storage Techniques racial trait
3. Changed - Reduced Hardy Industrialists trait to 20% bonus
4. Changed - Increased effect amounts for most Cultural Achievements
5. Changed - Small Graviton Beam can now be used with Troops
6. Changed - Reduced the effect of troops on happiness
7. Fixed - Error in requirements for Organic Heavy Carrier
8. Changed - Reduced Remote Mining component tech level requirements slightly
9. Fixed - Error in tech level requirements for Alloy Burner Missile
10. Changed - Slight adjustment to tech level requirements for Weapon Phase Accelerator
11. Added - New AI Minister to manage populations (ruthlessly)
12. Added - New AI Minister to optimize colony production
13. Changed - AI Minister for Vehicle Construction split into ship and unit Ministers
14. Changed - Tweaked effect amounts and costs for Intel Projects
15. Changed - Improved default strategy choices for AI design types
16. Updated - AI Scripts
</pre><hr />

[Kamog]

Thank you, Captain Kwok. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Spoo]

Yay!

[Captain Kwok]

Oops - one item I forgot to mention is that the AI uses remote mining now as well.

[Tnargversion2]

I am curious to know if I change the defualt amount of population that can be squeezed into a cargo space if that will change any of the new AI minisiters you have implemented for population control.

I beleive that the defualt is:
Pop for 1 pt of cargo = 40

For realism if I changed it to:
Pop for 1 pt of cargo = 120

I think I have that right. Basically I am trying to make it so that realistically only a few million people can be loaded onto a colonizer or pop transport rather than hundreds of millions.

[Captain Kwok]

It should be fine as it's % space filled calculation to determine whether or not a transport has enough cargo.

[gregebowman]

1.06?! Aargh! I'm halfway through a game in 1.05, and now another version comes out. Should I upgrade, or continue the game then upgrade when I'm done? Decisions, decisions. I'll probably upgrade and start a new game. I'm anxious to try out the new image package that came out.

[Baron Munchausen]

If you have split the ship and unit ministers, is there a way to control which of these are enabled or disabled? Could I have only the unit minister enabled and reserve ship-building for myself? Or are the minister options hard-coded into the game menus?

[Captain Kwok]

gregebowman:

You should finish your v1.05 game first as changes to the AI's list of ministers are not registered unless you start a new game.

Baron:

There are 3 ministers for construction now - facilities, ships, and units - each one operates independently. The list of ministers is moddable and was changed in v1.06, but like I mentioned above, the changes only register with new games.

[se5a]

well in that case, he can upgrade now, it's just that the changes will not happen till he starts a new game right?

[Romulus68]

Does version 1.06 have any bearing on a PBW game with no AI's?

Should we or do we need to ugrade?

[Captain Kwok]

se5a said:well in that case, he can upgrade now, it's just that the changes will not happen till he starts a new game right?

Not quite - there were also some name changes to the Ministers in the v1.06 scripts that will cause them not to do anything with a game started in v1.05...

PBW games can upgrade with no ill effects.

[Q]

Captain Kwok said:
You should finish your v1.05 game first as changes to the AI's list of ministers are not registered unless you start a new game.



Kwok don't you think that MM should try to change this?
If you have to start a new game everytime you change the AI it might get very tedious.

[Captain Kwok]

I was kind of surprised that the ministers were treated like the design types, that is the ministers are saved with the game and never loaded again from the minister data file. So it would be better like you suggest to have MM to change that...

[se5a]

does the ~recalc cheat not work for this?

[boromeo]

Captain Kwok said:
I haven't experience any problems with intel points not showing up. Silly question, but the planet has population etc?




Kwok , after 58 turns , the ai won't build intelligence facilities on my intelligence planets (so it's showing as 0 int points), but is it possible that the ai won't build intelligence facilities because i don't have any intelligence research done yet ?

[Captain Kwok]

Boromeo:
Has Intelligence Services I been researched.

---

Comments about the AI? Are they being too friendly in general?

[boromeo]

Hmmm no, must be the reason why no intelligence facilities have been constructed, research are under ai control but after 74 turns now since intelligence points are very important , i wonder why the ai did not do intelligence research yet (after 74 turns)

[Q]

Kwok I noticed that some AI build remote mining ships in BM 1.05 (I did not start a new game with 1.06 yet), but these ships sit just over a colony and are therefore useless as far as I can see.
As my game is quite advanced now (over 2420.0), I see AI mining warp points, which is very good!

[Captain Kwok]

Remote mining orders were added in v1.06, but I guess you'll have to wait a bit to see that.

[arthurtuxedo]

I've just been informed that the Steam version of SE V auto-updates even if you tell it not to, and that backup copies will also be auto-updated. Horrible news for a PBW game, of course. Do new patches tend to break Balance Mod savegames, or is it usually possible to patch, update to the new patch-compatible Balance Mod, and continue playing? If not, we might be forced to play stock (ugh).

[Captain Kwok]

New patches wouldn't affect Balance Mod PBW games.

[arthurtuxedo]

That's great news. Thanks!

[Tim_Ward]

In my version 1.06 game, I've noticed that:

a) AI empires are only putting version 1 of their weapon choice on their ships. The Eee have level 1 meason blasters and cap ship missiles, everyone else is using DU cannons. The year is 2405.4.
b) AI controlled ships don't approach within about 9 'squares' of a planet, even if they have weapons with less than 9 squares range. I ran a simulation with an AI's planetary bombardment ship, and it just went back and forth without firing. I ordered it to move in closer, and it obliterated the planet. My ships using level 3 AP beams (which have range 9, IIRC) destroy the planet without needing orders.

c) AIs propose very comprehensive treaties on first contact again.

Also, regarding the mod in general.

a) AI designs don't have enough armour, and don't research it enough. Early AI destroyers are /pants/ because they have, like, two beam or direct fire weapons, and then a heavy weapon which is usually a missile and then only two pieces of armour. Well, of course the missile gets shot down by point defence and ship is destroyed in short order because it has virtually no armour. It gets worse when they get shields, because shields aren't really worth it until about level five, so they waste 30kt for 120k of shields when they could get 100kt from a single piece of level 5 armour.
b) AI's are too agreeable, and want to be buddies all the time. I know it's probably a lot of work to try and get a really decent AI script that declares war, sues for peace and proposes treaties appropriately, but there's a few races in there that are not inclined to be diplomatic, and so you can write very simple scripts for them.

The Sergetti and the Amon'krie are xenophobes. They should be exceedingly reluctant to sign treaties with anyone. I actually wrote such a script myself for the Amon'krie, back when I was dicking around with the AI scripts. They *only* treaty they'd sign was a non-aggression treaty, and only if you had really good relations; these were always called non-intercourse or non-interference treaties. And if you so much as sneezed at them, they'd declare war. Very simple to write, but it adds character and variety to the AIs.

I had grandiose plans to make their anger level based on proximity and on entering their systems, so they'd lash out at nearby empires but tolerate ones on the other side of the map. Of course I never got round to any of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif The sithrak could also benefit from a similar treatment.

And no, declaring war on everyone in sight doesn&amp;#8217;t make good strategic sense. But a lot of the time, cultural or political forces in a society can cause it to do things they don&amp;#8217;t make perfect sense, or any sense.

[Captain Kwok]

I made a change to the way score comparisons were handled and it looks like it's been returning 0 values often, skewing certain diplomatic variables that control treaty elements and other decisions. In theory it should behave more as you describe with aggressive or xenophobic races.

I been working on v1.07 which so far has involved modifications to the way designs are made. One of the changes is to emphasize complete direct fire or complete seeker designs. The other change focuses on improving space usage on designs.

The research queue itself needs major overhaul.. that'll probably be reserved for v1.08...

[mrscrogg]

Hello Capt. , I have an idea , if it's not practical forgive me. The default amaount for systems is 100 yet we can use up to 255 . Why can't there be a setting in the map generator where we could pick the amount of systems we want 1 thru 255 or , small - 50 , medium - 125 , large - 200 and huge - 255 . Doing it this way instead of having to go in to Settings.txt seem easier and gives us more control - Thanks

[Captain Kwok]

Send an e-mail to MM about it. He's the only one that can change that. Some time ago I think we recommended either a slider or an amount to type in for the number of systems.

[Romulus68]

Don't forget to create the different classes of fighters, so we can better control there actions and targeting. ie: Fighter Intercepters, Fighter Bombers, Fighter Multi-role.

Those name are close to actual military classifications. Here is how the USA lists aircraft: US Military Aircraft Classification Symbols (http://navysite.de/terms-aircraft.htm)

[gregebowman]

Maybe I will finish teh game in 1.05 first. Hate to get halfway through a game and not finish it. I'll have to think about it.

[phalzyr]

Captain Kwok:

I'm using your latest empire scripts and having a AI slowness in expansion issue. I've modded your mod so that there is only one colony module and it for all three types. In 9 game turn I have nine planets in my home system the enemy two at best, doesn't matter if they have viable or only domed planets to colonize. I've looked at the empire scripts and changeed many things to no avail they just laze around and expand at a snails pace compared to me. I pretty much set the "demand" of all ship types majorly lower than colony ships among other things but they still take forever to expand. Any ideas? Should I just give them an AI bonus? thanks for a great mod, and I hope you releas said scripts again for new version if you tweak them alot.

[Captain Kwok]

I would change all the entries and related scripts for the three classic colonizer types and just make a single AI design type "Colony Ship". Also, for the Colony Ship demand I would add all 3 lists (gas, rock, ice) for the desired amount of ships. A low bonus is fair for the AI, as it can't quite do the advanced micromanaging of queues and resources that human players will do.

[phalzyr]

Thanks Kwok, Actually I already combined the three types into one "Colony (Multi)" type. I tried the demand list both ways with just multi once and multi three times simply replacing the other three. then upped the demand rating for each by a factor of 100 and the dec by a factor of 10 so they'd have ten ships before the demand satrted wanning (if I undertood it correctly...)

I have noticed this file is a bit finicky some change to the demand ratios makes the AI totally freak out and drop the worth/resources/everything to almost 0 (how they lose buildings/research just by having no demand for attak ships... It usually hapeens on the third or forth game turn their research will drop to 750 and everything else very low or 0 I don't recall their numbers.)

What I was going for is to have them produce ship wise 95% colony ships and very few defense ships until they meet someone else. they seem to either pull some info from another file or the AI is bugged (I had unit production/demand at 0 and they still made units...instead of colony ships...)

Oh well I play with it some more over the weekend, and see if there isn't something obvious I'm missing. (And yes I know you have to start a new game to get all the benifits of the file changes.)

[se5a]

kwok, can you add 'retroserries design' to the list of design types?

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

I'm re-working some of the AI's designs for the next mod update to go with this week's upcoming SE:V patch, so I'd appreciate some thoughts or comments on generally effective combat designs etc.

I've mirror this topic on the BM's SE.net forums as well:
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopict-2529.html

[Tnargversion2]

Captain Kwok said:
Greetings!

I'm re-working some of the AI's designs for the next mod update to go with this week's upcoming SE:V patch, so I'd appreciate some thoughts or comments on generally effective combat designs etc.

I've mirror this topic on the BM's SE.net forums as well:
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopict-2529.html




Not sure if this is what you mean, but are there races that build off of certain doctrines?

Example would be races that rely heavily on fighters and carrier tech.

Races that build vast armadas of fast, agile, smaller frigates and destroyers that swarm convential fleets.

Races that rely on slow, uber armored juggernauts with massive mount weapons but have fleets that employ PD and light weaponry escourts.

Races that research particular styles of weapons and then stick with that particular weapon (CSM, Torpedo, DUC, APB, Ion, ect.). Like the indivdiual raes in the Star Trek Mod that had their own racial weapons.

A sly race that is known through out the galaxy for their deployment of cloaked drone launchers.

An aggressive race that gains its research through capturing other vessels and then analyzing it.

Races bent on researching unconventional weapons such as planet and star destroyers.

Purely defensive style races that rely heavily on Warp Point Defense Bases and Defensive style ships.

Slaving races that build fleets simply to capture planets effectively with the races intact.

A jack of all trades race that knows how to balance all of the above with a good mix of everything to counter just about everything, but only just average at doing these tasks.

Do you know if the new patch is going to address the fact that some of the areas of the strategies can not be adjusted as of 1.33. If so I had some good ideas for fighter strategies and design that seemed to work great in the simulator prior to 1.33.

[aegisx]

I think what needs to happen is the modifiers for 'wanting of a design' need to be exported to the race files. This would allow all sorts of custom AI's to be built (i.e. Borg, Zerg types).

[phalzyr]

Kwok: I gave up on my mod because of the error I mentioned, and reverted back to your originally 1.05 version. I noticed that it even happens with your version though not nearly as good of a chance. I started a game with high computer players (is that 12 or 14... with yours...) Anyway after doing a comparison and making sure everyone started with max resources I ended my turn. Very next turn I did a comparison and saw that 2 of them had only 600 resource lost all research points etc just as it was doing with mine. (note I did an reinstall prior to this). Is it doing the same thing for everyone else? 2 outta 14 isn't taht noticable in the long run but after my mod tweaking your code it got to be over 50% of computer player auto suiciding like this. I will download latest version today and make sure (delete dir and everything to make sure I have a competely clean install, I've been doing everything in the mod dir like I'm suppossed to but who knows...) and then see if it still hapenns.

Oh forgot to mention, when I was doing this with mine I noticed it was somewhat random not set. Once the eee committed suicide the next game they didn't but some one else did in their place...

[Tim_Ward]

Captain Kwok said:
Greetings!

I'm re-working some of the AI's designs for the next mod update to go with this week's upcoming SE:V patch, so I'd appreciate some thoughts or comments on generally effective combat designs etc.

I've mirror this topic on the BM's SE.net forums as well:
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopict-2529.html



Frigates make the best missle boats, because there aren't mounts for missiles and they're the fastest hull size. Early game, I use: bridge, life support, crew quaters, sensors, five engines, five armour, two plasma missiles. Can't beat 'em for damage output, and they outrange everything else. They'd be vunerable to fighters, but they AI doesn't use them too much at present. You can always add in a point defence version with only one missile, two point defence cannons and combat sensors.

Since you're using the quadrent mod, you need to make sure AI's keep a stock of cruisers or something around even if they have dreadnaughts and baseships, if they don't already.

No shields until shield regenerators, to compliment rather than replace armour.

No mixing direct fire weapons with missiles, because missiles work best from afar and you can't use direct fire weapons from all the way back there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif But you mentioned you were going to do that.

Is the AI going to be using troops?

[Baron Munchausen]

I have started a new game with 1.06 and the 1.35 beta patch. So far, the AI is quite a challenge. Dramatically better than stock. Good thing I didn't give any AI bonus in game setup this time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I have to agree that the designs with mixed missile/direct fire weapons are a mistake, as is using shields before they have reached the same level of effectiveness as armor.

Also, the AI needs to 'cleanup' more effectively after combat. My presence on a certain planet is disturbing a rival empire, and so it's under constant attack. After almost every battle, there is something 'left over' and sitting next to my planet. Supply ship, repair ship, etc. These should be sent home, not left sitting there like orphans. Sometimes I send some ships out to attack and destroy these logistics ships, but usually I'm too busy preparing for the next attack. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[se5a]

yeah I'm wondering if you shouldn't make shields a tad more powerfull Kwok, they need to be a bit less powerfull than armor at the same amount of reserch points though, since you don't have to repair them. duno, what do you others think? anyone worked out the reserch cost of the first level of shields, and what the equvelent armor level is for the same amount of reserch is?

[phalzyr]

Captain Kwok: I did some more reasearch, and can not only describe the issue better but can point to the exact part of your code that causes it, and how to easily recreate it, and even how to fix it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif, and yes it still happens in 1.06 clean install.

Problem: After first turn, and possibly at other times during the game An AI player home planet and possibly other planets will scrap some or all facilties on said planet. I've only noticed it after first turn since it shows their starting points and stuff only deal with the homeworld and very easy to see the issue...

Cause: In the Script_AI_Construction.txt empire script file under the Remove_Uneeded_Items function is a call to check for and clear up room for a resupply depot and Space port. That area of code causes the problem, specifically not clearing last_colony_id. this still doesn't explain those 3/14 hitting this if routine but if fixed by below method it'll make them only scrap one facility instead of all. (they should all start with both facilities yet randomly, or at least I couldn't see a reason in how long I looked at it, the code falls through to the if anyway...)

Recreate: Simply change the homeworld starting facilites to not include a space port. 90% chance an AI will self-destruct as I call it.

Solution: clearing the last_colony_id right after the "if (found_item) then" routine or at start of loop.

Some Thoughts: This if it isn't just restricted to homeworld could majorally cripple the AI, and if I read the code correctly I assume it runs each turn to check all systems for said facilites? I hope this helps, if you have any questions feel free to ask http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

More detail (probaly too much):

Please ignore me if I'm way off or read the code wrong. You loop through each system as long as a person has one planet period. the first thing you do each loop is set found_space to false. Then if no owned planet is in that system it will remain false and go into next loop that deletes a facility. So... As many facilities as there are systems, minus the one they really have a colony in, and minus which system number they are in, are removed. I.E. their colony is in system 248 of a 250 system, they'd loose 2 facilities, since it got to 248 sets the last_colony_id then does two more systems setting found_space to false then next if checks this value and removes a facility for last_colony_id for the last two systems since no planet is found in system it doesn't change the id and thus last planet it checked gets a facility axed...

BTW out of curiousity how often does this part of script fire?

[Captain Kwok]

Can you tell me if the races that self-destructed on the first turn had the Natural Merchants trait?

[Captain Kwok]

se5a:
I'm thinking that shields might need some help, particularly at the earlier levels.

[phalzyr]

I'm not really sure Kwok. I thought about that but at time was thinking they did and didn't. I.E. those that did had 100% chance of suicide but still another race would from time to time, at tleast that is what i was thinking but I can take another look tonight if you want (don't have game here, and don't have internet at home http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif )

though when I was playing my mod (slightly changed yours where I altered and made a different style of resupply depot that did half as good but had sensors on it, I didn't change much in the AI scripts at the point they were suiciding and nothing with siad file at all) I was getting more self destructs than not and I noticed that one guy self destructed one time in but not the next, so I'm thinking something else is going on also. I wish we could change mid-game who was NPC and who was PC so I could look at exactly what was going on.

I'll test it some more tonight and get back to on that tomorrow and see what I come up with, but for now just simply add that one line of code in either at beginning or end and that will be a major plug to the problem.

Of course you could just start a 14 player game take one turn without doing a thing and look to see who self-destructed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif (their resource will drop to 600 and research to 0)

I just looked at the ai scripts and it seems 5/14 players have natural merchant as a choice so if only 3/14 were commiting suicide...

[Captain Kwok]

In my test AI games I haven't seen the self-destruct before, but it has been mentioned once or twice. The only way the code would get executed would be that the system would be listed as not having a spaceport or resupply depot. When I get home I will check the script and make the appropriate changes. Thanks for your work on this matter.

[phalzyr]

You're welcome. I wonder why you haven't. Every 14 player game I start it happens to at least two players usually three. I have a clean 1.33 installed with your latest release...(I deleted dir after uninstall before reinstalling). Oh and I always play the largest amount of systems, so if my theory about the code issue is correct then number of system would make the issue more previlant.

I'll play with it some more without the fix so I can see results better and see if I can narrow down the reason it gets into the code when they do have both facilities, but at worst with that fix it only kills one facility on the planet rather than all of them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[phalzyr]

Captain Kwok: OK it does seem to be only those that have Natural Merchants racial traits right now. I can't get it to happen for others (unless they don't have a resupply or spaceport of course). After adding the line I mentioned yesterday I found a way to fix the trait issue but I'm sure you know how but anyway:

1: Go into Script_AI_GlobalVariable.txt file and add:
bool_Race_Uses_Natural_Merchants: boolean := FALSE

2: Go into the main_script.txt files for those that have this trait(Cue Cappa, Phong, Terran) and add:
set bool_Race_Uses_Natural_Merchants := TRUE

3: Go into Script_AI_Construction.txt and go to the Remove_Uneeded_Items function and change:
if (lst_AI_Our_Spaceport_Systems.Get(index) = 0) or (lst_AI_Our_Resupply_Systems.Get(index) = 0) then
TO:
if ((lst_AI_Our_Spaceport_Systems.Get(index) = 0) and (not bool_Race_Uses_Natural_Merchants)) or (lst_AI_Our_Resupply_Systems.Get(index) = 0) then


BTW: Did you know JRaenar has 6000 racial points worth of traits in their file. Natural merchants is last but is ignored because of that.

I'll let you know if when I start remaking my mod if it starts doing strange things again, but I was editing a lot so might just of changed something with the race that I had die once then not between two games...

[Q]

Kwok probably I do not understand the script correctly but does in the AI State change script the following

"AI_STATE_DEFEND:
call Compute_Defend_Systems()
if (not Enemy_In_Territory_Or_Nearby()) then
set new_ai_state := AI_STATE_INFRASTRUCTURE
endif"

mean that the Ai will remain in the defend state as long as enemies are in or near the empire territories?
If so, it will probably never change to any other state (attack state) against a human player?
That would explain my observation that in the curent game (BM 1.05) the AI does not attack although he has 5x more ships than I do.

Second very strange finding is that the AI in this game has 109 fleets but absolutely no ships in any of these fleets!!

[Captain Kwok]

Phalzyr:
I came to the same conclusion last night - similar fix except I just check to see if the race had the natural merchants ability, which will cover off the default AI that the player's ministers or neutrals would use as well.

Q:
There is a known bug in the mod with disbanding fleets that is probably responsible for that weird occurrence with fleets. I know IRM has some sort of workaround for this - I'll look into it.

[Captain Kwok]

Q:
In v1.05, the AI will likely be in defense state if enemies are in 2 or more systems. In that case though, there fleets should be attacking in those systems with enemies, so I think what has happened is that fleet bug is interfering. Larger attacks are given to fleets and if they have no ships, they have no strength, and therefore do not attack.

[phalzyr]

Great. I haven't looked into scripting AI and what functions exist much so figured you'd know a better way. sometime I'll have to look for a guide or such about it, unless I'm over looking something obvious that is included with the game...

[Q]

Thank you Kwok for the explanation.

In general I believe that the defense state is seldom beneficial for the AI if he faces a human player, as the human player always will select the weakest points of the defenses to attack. However counter attacks of the AI (even if quite random in its location) may cause problems to the human opponent.

One more thing I read in the scrips (1.05):

" // Our Mine Sweepers should join fleets if they have nothing better to do
if (not orders_given) then
set orders_given := Send_Ship_To_Join_Fleet(ship_id)
endif"

Don't you think that minesweepers should always join fleets with highest priority? A lonely minesweeper is doomed, while an attack fleet without minesweepers is easily stopped by mines.

[Captain Kwok]

Q:
There were changes made in the state script in v1.06 that added modifiers which push AIs with larger empires (ie higher score) into more aggressive action.

Another change in v1.06 was that Minesweepers are sent directly to fleets. I agree that it is more effective for AIs.

[Q]

Great work Kwok!

[Romulus68]

Not sure if this a issue or by design, but it deals with population migration. In our PBW 1.33 bm1.05. I have allied pop migrating to my planets. I don't mind this, but the treaties don't allow/specify migration. The population is coming from empires I do have treaties with, BUT we don't have migration treaties.

Will pop migrate on its own and if treaty specified will they migrate faster? or is this a Bug?

[phalzyr]

Captain Kwok: I look foward to you next version. Are you going to release the newer AI empire scripts also, for those of us that like to mod your mod? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Yeah, I can post updates to the scripts. Right now I have compiled since I started changing the ship design system - could be scary when I try tonight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

---

Romulus:
Did you ever obtain population from another player via trade etc?

[Romulus68]

Captain Kwok said:
Romulus:
Did you ever obtain population from another player via trade etc?



Yes, but the population was a diferent type. I'm getting 3-4 types migrating. Want me to send you the game file and my password to look at it?

[Tnargversion2]

Captain Kwok said:
Greetings!

I'm re-working some of the AI's designs for the next mod update to go with this week's upcoming SE:V patch, so I'd appreciate some thoughts or comments on generally effective combat designs etc.

I've mirror this topic on the BM's SE.net forums as well:
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopict-2529.html



CK, are you going to do anything with fighter design and strategies so that the AI uses a little more variety other than the usual fighter design and strategy. I know that there could be many different designs and strategies, but maybe just implementing two or three of the favorites.

[Captain Kwok]

I have 3 fighter designations so far - "Fighter" types armed with direct fire weapons; "Fighter Bomber" with Rocket Pods or Torpedoes, and "Kamikaze Fighters" with warheads. They'll follow Short, Maximum, and Kamikaze strategies respectively.

[DrewBlack]

Hi Kwok...

Whens the next release coming on line....
Am waiting to start a new campaign....!!!

TA
Drew

[Captain Kwok]

I'm hoping to have it ready for Monday afternoon. So far it's been a time-consuming update because it's required some of the design creation routine to be re-written and specific options set for each of the 55 design types. In addition, each race has had their weapon choices updated and their weapons research made more efficient. Lastly the default AI has been split into 3 categories: Aggressive, Defensive, and Moderate. Not a difficult change, but time consuming.

[Q]

Sounds promising!

[Randallw]

Do you know anything about a bug that stops ships moving? perhaps fixed in the next mod version?

[Tim_Ward]

Hey Kwok, a how about updating the empire data files so to reflect the stock government choices, so you don't hav virtually every empire using 'tyranny'?

[Captain Kwok]

I don't think it has to do with the modifiers so much as it does with the roleplay aspect of "tyranny".

---

I haven't heard of any bug where ships are stopping. Can you elaborate?

[Randallw]

I am in a Balance mod game where every few turns, sometimes for a number of turns, ships in select systems refuse to move. The next turn they have the orders players give them but they havn't followed any of them. It is endemic to every empire in the game. We had hoped the latest patches would fix it but first new turn and it happens again. Lots of us are sending bug reports to Aaron. It may be endemic to SEV.

Edit: another odd thing I just witnessed. I was testing a new race and I suddenly owned a ship from another race I hadn't met. I thought perhaps one of my ships had been catapulted across the galaxy, but no, I gained one of their ships.

[aegisx]

Kwok, any luck moving some of the modifiers for ship creation out to the race files?

[Captain Kwok]

Simultaneous games are still quite buggy. I couldn't see what would interfere with movement other than something breaking in the turn mechanics.

---

No external data files yet. Although the way I've re-configured the design routine, it will be easier to implement.

[Tim_Ward]

Captain Kwok said:
I don't think it has to do with the modifiers so much as it does with the roleplay aspect of "tyranny".



Yeah.

[DrewBlack]

Are we there yet??????

[Captain Kwok]

I was just about ready to post it last night when I caught a new error with the AI's fleeting of ships. I need to work out that first, but otherwise all the other changes seem to be working ok. I think the new AI designs will help out as there a bit more efficient in their use of space and make better choices for extra components.

[aegisx]

Man Kwok, what do we pay you for?

[Tim_Ward]

Yeah! I want my money back.

[Q]

Kwok will you now make the AI use stellar manipulation after MM seems to have enabled these orders?

[Captain Kwok]

I will at least implement warp point opening for v1.08 (to be released with the next SE:V patch). I think it will take quite a bit of time to set up scripts for the AI to use other stellar manips in a useful manner.

[Q]

Any news about the release of 1.07?

[Captain Kwok]

I'll be posting it tonight for certain. It's been perpetually 95% done for the last week and a half, but there is this 5% of bugs/problems from the "release AI test game" to solve every time I want to post it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[DeadZone]

Its that last few % thats always a *****, lol

[Captain Kwok]

As promised, v1.07 of the mod has been posted. It's mostly an AI update that focuses on adding new design types along with changes to the AI's design routine. There's also the addition of leaky intel and the usual fixes.

Download here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

Version 1.07 (31 May 2007)
--------------------------

1. Fixed - Error in requirements for Small Telekinetic Projector
2. Added - More default design types
3. Changed - Reduced the costs for most intel projects
4. Added - New design types
5. Changed - Small amount of organics returned for scrapping population
6. Changed - Increased starting shield strength for Shield Generators
7. Fixed - If AI players had Natural Merchants trait, they would self-destruct their empire
8. Error - Crystalline Torpedoes could be placed on the Inner Hull
9. Changed - All races start with level 1 in Smaller Weapons
10. Changed - Increased range and damage for Tachyon Projection Cannon
11. Changed - Increased range for Weapon Disrupter
12. Changed - Decreased damage for Ionic Dispersers
13. Changed - Empires now start with level 1 in Small Weapons
14. Changed - Reduced size and damage for Kamikaze Warhead
15. Fixed - Mines could not be fired at in tactical combat
16. Changed - Drones no longer seek to ram automatically
17. Fixed - Planetary Napalm did not store any ordnance
18. Changed - Increased starting damage resistance for Quantum Torpedoes
19. Changed - Increased speed and modified damage for Gamma Pulse Torpedoes
20. Changed - Small tweaks to population happiness modifiers
21. Added - New images for Small Supply Storage and Small Ordnance Storage
22. Added - Implemented Aggressive, Defensive, and Moderate scripts for default AI
23. Changed - Improved AI ship design and utilization of components
24. Changed - Improved AI fleet use, composition and supply
25. Changed - Updated weapon selections for each default race
26. Added - New AI design types
27. Updated - AI Scripts

[aegisx]

leaky intel?

[Spoo]

Is this a savegame breaker? Does it require a restart for all features?

[Captain Kwok]

It's saved game compatible, but probably best to start a new solo game if you want to use the added design types etc.

[Captain Kwok]

aegisx said:
leaky intel?

Yes, the success of an intel project will be based on a combination of the attack points, defense points, and project cost.

The basic success rate:
success = attack points / (attack points + 2*defense points + project cost)

[narf poit chez BOOM]

...Er, attack points on both sides of the equation?

[DrewBlack]

Hi

What versionj of game does 1.07 work with??

[BlueTemplar]

1.35 works fine

[aegisx]

Captain Kwok said:

aegisx said:
leaky intel?

Yes, the success of an intel project will be based on a combination of the attack points, defense points, and project cost.

The basic success rate:
success = attack points / (attack points + 2*defense points + project cost)



So, the more you spend on a project the less likely it is to succeed?

[Captain Kwok]

No. The only two items that reduce the success of the project are the defense points and the cost of the project. It's typically easier to get through several small projects that a large project etc. The more you spend, the better chance you have to succeed because the ratio of attack points to the pooled points denominator will increase.

[gregebowman]

I'm using v1.06 and patch 1.35, and I'm still playing my original game I started using v.105 and patch 1.33. If I do update to v1.07, will I have to start over?

[Captain Kwok]

It's technically ok for the data files, but a game started in v1.05 and carried over into v1.06/1.07 will have a partially non-functional AI. New ministers were added for the AI in v1.06 and are only registered in games that were started with v1.06/1.07.

[Kamog]

Thank you for the new Balance Mod version, Captain Kwok. I have started a new game today, and SEV is very good now, with the recent patch and the Balance Mod, and I'm having fun! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Big improvements in the last few months. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[Q]

Probably this is a general bug not related to BM but when you play a game with intel projects disabled the AI will still research intel and build intel facilities.
In BM 1.07 I have seen so far very good AI development and good defenses of their colonies.
Thank you for your work Kwok.

[aegisx]

Kwok, any preview on whats next for BM?

[Captain Kwok]

Here's the current to-do list. I'd like to get v1.08 out quickly (although it looks like a lot of items, most are small tasks). The following v1.09 I'd like to have out with the next SE:V patch.

v1.08:
- Continue AI design improvements
- Diversify AI diplomacy
- Base total unit demand on available total planet space
- Improve AI state transitions
- Improve AI colony type selection criteria
- Add specific AI lists for unit drop locations
- Adjustments to weapon balance

v1.09:
- Update Alliance diplomacy
- Update research pathways and tech selection
- Implement AI use of cloaking, basic stellar manipulation

-----

So far I haven't found a way to prevent the AI from researching intel. I've asked for a script function to return if the game has intel or no intel.

-----

Also keep an eye out for odd AI designs. There's bound to be some ones that don't quite work out with the new revisions.

[Baron Munchausen]

Logically, the game should remove Intel from the research list if it has been disabled. Isn't that what SE IV did?

[Captain Kwok]

I believe it does, but the AI scripts call tech areas by their name and so it doesn't matter if it's not displayed.

[Raapys]

Central Computer Complex( and thus System Computer Complex, Citizen Databank Complex, System Citizen Databank ) bonuses are still stackable, unlike those modifying resource generation and construction rate. Thus you can basically build ten SCC's in a single system and get a gigantic bonus.

This isn't a mistake with the mod per se, but rather the game engine. For some reason Aaron has made it so it treats the resource/construction modifiers( not stackable ) differently from the research/intelligence modifiers( stackable ). I've tried to bug Aaron about it, but without much luck it appears. Think you could give it a try, Kwok?

To sum it up: The abilities "Point Generation Modifier - Research" and "Point Generation Modifier - Intelligence" needs to be altered to behave like the Resource Gen Modifiers, i.e. only one ( the highest ) modifier should count on each "Scope".

[Captain Kwok]

So you have confirmed (ie tested for certain) Resources ones do not stack within scope? But research/intel does?

[Raapys]

Yah, I tested it out by making a facility that used all the modifiers and built several of it on the same planet. Intelligence and Research is definitely being increased for each, while Construction rate and all the Resource Gens are only being increased by the first one( unless a facility with higher % modifier is built, of course, at which point it uses that one instead ).

I assume the Research/Intel modifiers are the broken ones and not the Resource/Construction modifiers, since the facilities are obviously only supposed to be 'one per system/planet'.

Perhaps a big improvement would be to have the current modifiers( with research/intel fixed ) and in addition a set of stackable ones, to open up possibilities for modders.

[Q]

The possibility to research intel in a game with disabled intel projects is available for the human player too. It is clearly a bug in the game itself and I reported it to MM.
Kwok did you change anything about migration or the population transport? In my game I am at 2407.1 with AI team mode. And to my big surprise almost all AI colonies are undomed due to population migration/transport. This is excellent!! The AI is getting extremely strong in this game and the only weakness I found so far is that the AI still has problems with my minefields. I have seen no minesweepers until now.

[Captain Kwok]

The AI will scrap any non-breathers on planets with breathing population. It was added in v1.06.

The AI does build lots of minesweepers and sticks them in fleets, but perhaps they haven't got to mine research yet.

[cshank2]

Kwok, your mod is the only reason this game is playable.

[Captain Kwok]

For players with long games or pbw games, what many experience points are your ships accumulating?

[se5a]

I think psycic may be a little high, I'll have to take a look.

[aegisx]

Kwok, can you post the 1.07 AI scripts?

[phalzyr]

aegisx said:
Kwok, can you post the 1.07 AI scripts?



Yes, Kwok please http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[aegisx]

it also seems like AI players do not research nearly enough. Maybe mining/farming/radio colonies should also build some research facilities?

[Escaflowne]

The issue I'm having is that the turn processing is taking FOREVER once I click the next turn button.

I'm playing with a large galaxy, lots of computers, and a huge bonus. And processing a turn is taking at least 10 minutes once I click go.

Is that an issue in the basic game (more then likely) or something you're doing in the mod scripts?

Thanks for the mod, it ROCKS!

[Captain Kwok]

It's due to the AI's movement and combat phases - especially with the large number of ships you'd expect with a high AI bonus. The scripts are executed relatively quickly and don't contribute much to turn processing times.

Fewer AI opponents in a medium to large galaxy allows them to develop more and provide a greater challenge, while saving a bit on turn processing times.

[Raapys]

Kwok, a question. Do you know the effects of tweaking the "Combat Iterations Per Frame" setting( in settings.txt )? There's no mention of it anywhere that I can find, so I'm having trouble understanding exactly what it does.

[Ed Kolis]

I would imagine it controls the ratio between the "frame rate" and the "logic rate" of combat - if you set it to a higher number, the game would (assuming it's actually implemented) compute the combat results in more detail with better accuracy. I suppose lowering it could reduce the size of the combat logs, at the expense of detail though... might be worth a shot...

edit: odd, you're right, there is no mention of it in the modding doc... maybe it was added more recently?

edit 2: but nothing in history.txt either... this is strange :?

[Raapys]

Curious.

Wouldn't this in effect mean that combat results vary depending on the performance of one's computer? The faster the computer, the more accurate the combat.

More, couldn't this also explain the whole 'time compression changes combat outcome' scenario? You're bound to loose alot of FPS( and thus combat iterations ) when increasing the time compression.

If such is the case, then that would have to be considered a huge flaw in the game's combat engine.

[aegisx]

Kwok,

Can you add lists to track if systems have facilities for Temporal, Organic (etc) 1-per-system facilities? It already does it for resupply/spaceports.

[Kana]

Raapys said:
Curious.

Wouldn't this in effect mean that combat results vary depending on the performance of one's computer? The faster the computer, the more accurate the combat.

More, couldn't this also explain the whole 'time compression changes combat outcome' scenario? You're bound to loose alot of FPS( and thus combat iterations ) when increasing the time compression.

If such is the case, then that would have to be considered a huge flaw in the game's combat engine.



More of a reason to go back to a turn based combat system. Or even a WEGO system like Combat Mission.

[Ed Kolis]

Or perhaps Aaron just needs to rewrite the combat engine to keep the logic rate *independent* of the framerate... this is how most modern games are developed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Fyron]

"Do you know the effects of tweaking the "Combat Iterations Per Frame" setting( in settings.txt )?"

I would imagine it has to do with the compression of combat logs, not the actual combat processing.

"More of a reason to go back to a turn based combat system. Or even a WEGO system like Combat Mission."

Considering that the actual computation of real time combat is more or less identical to turn based (just with a higher order of turn numbers), no, not really.

[DeadZone]

Gotta admit Kwok, you've done a really good job with this mod
I'm liking it alot

[se5a]

"More of a reason to go back to a turn based combat system. Or even a WEGO system like Combat Mission."

**** no.

[Captain Kwok]

Does anyone have an advanced game with the mod using fleets with lots of combats... if so, how many xp points have they racked up?

[Captain Kwok]

Just an FYI to interested mod users that don't visit the Mod's SE.net forum, I posted an updated Components.txt with some revised weapon data in this thread:

http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopicp-20211-.html#20211

There's been a lot of small adjustments to improve overall cost and damage balance of weapons across the board.

[Captain Kwok]

Aaron said:This is a funny little setting. Up till several months ago, combat would take place at an accelerated rate but using the normal timer ticks from your system. I found that I could speed this up by forcing several iterations each timer tick. So instead of each timer tick causing one pulse of combat, there is now a loop which will cause “Combat Iterations Per Frame” worth of pulses for each timer tick. The dangerous part of this setting is that if you set it too high, you’ll cause the frame rate to drop to zero.



I got this reply from Aaron re: the "Combat Iterations Per Frame" value in settings.txt.

[Raapys]

Interesting.

Not sure I entirely understand what he's saying, though. Perhaps someone with a broader understanding of english and computer programming could explain it in less technical terms?

And wouldn't this only matter for AI battles( or sim. mode battles ), since player battles all take place at a set time rate( for example 8x, 32x etc.)? Also, the setting defaults to '20'; wouldn't this in effect mean a 20 times as fast battle resolution compared to before this technique was taken into use?

[Captain Kwok]

I don't know what the previous technique was, but I'd imagine it's not a 20x difference. But I think if you were to set it to 40 now, you'd get twice the combat rate, assuming your computer can handle that. The accelerated time settings I imagine would affect actually combat events as they likely skip "combat pulses".

[Q]

Kwok, the game I play at the moment with BM v1.07 is the best SE V game I had until now!
The AI improvement is substantial, especially the scrapping of non-breathers on planets helps the AI a lot. The minesweepers I missed in an earlier report are now showing up, are within fleets and giving me a headache.
Congratulation for you excellent work!
One problem is the happiness. I think you are right and only the peaceful type is used. There you have a decrease of 5 (= 0.5%) for each enemy ship in the system. That is awful much. 40 ship will already give you the maximum happiness decrease in that system. Futhermore I have seen that ship losses decrease the happiness in the entire empire, not as said in the description only in the system. Again the value of 2 for each ship can create big problems (especially for the AI) in later games, when losses of 50 or more ships can occur.
Another problem the AI still has is resupply. Fleets run out of supplies and are almost paralized.
But again your game mod is really fun and I enjoy it very much.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

Another update is available for the Balance Mod. Version 1.08 focused on improving weapon and racial trait balance, along with some more AI improvements and the usual fix or two.

I also changed the AI's demand for vehicle types to be based on the number of facility slots in the Empire, rather than just colonies. Keep an eye out for weird imbalances of certain design types in their fleets etc.

Note you might need to fiddle around with your saved empire files as the Organic and Crystalline traits were increased to 2000 cost.

Grab the update here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Version 1.08 (09 June 2007)
---------------------------

1. Changed - All weapons now have intervals for damage amounts
2. Changed - Made lots of overall damage/range/cost changes to weapons
3. Changed - Gamma Pulse Torpedoes damage type to Skips All Shields
4. Fixed - Seeker description for Power Lamprey was not being displayed
5. Fixed - Error in Plague Bomb description
6. Changed - Increased cost of Crystalline and Organic racial traits to 2000 points
7. Changed - Increased tech area cost for racial trait technologies
8. Changed - Decreased Neural Combat Net to 10kT
9. Changed - Increased cloak level of Stealth Totems
10. Changed - Reduced Holy War Totem to 5 levels and reduced size to 10kT
11. Changed - Reduced size of Vengeance Totem to 20kT
12. Changed - Increased tech area cost for Religious Technology
13. Changed - Decreased cost of Psychic Scanner and added regular scanning ability to it
14. Changed - Updated Homeworld starting facilities for a max tech start
15. Fixed - Alloy Burner Missile was not using ordnance
16. Changed - Reduced experience points required to achieve experience levels and receive attack and defense bonuses
17. Added - New images for Small Supply Storage, Small Ordnance Storage, and Small Ordnance Vat
18. Changed - Slight increase to ruins tech area costs
19. Changed - Reduced experience rates for Psychic Fleet Training and Psychic Ship Training facilities
20. Changed - AI fleets when waiting for ships to join will occupy enemy if they have enough ships to be active
21. Changed - AI will favor facility construction when maintenance costs are high
22. Changed - AI Carriers will leave fleets to re-load Fighters if they have none
23. Changed - Narrowed AI's choice of warp points to drop mines and satellites
24. Fixed - AI would not always build a Spaceport right away if required
25. Updated - AI Scripts
</pre><hr />

[GuyOfDoom]

Captain Kwok said:


Note you might need to fiddle around with your saved empire files as the Organic and Crystalline traits were increased to 2000 cost.


</pre><hr />



If it might ask why? I've always considered the Racial techs underpowered considering you have to pay racial points and then research them. For 1,000 points Ancient Race gives you far too much information.

[Captain Kwok]

Resupply is tricky. I did modify the resupply routine to clear orders and go to resupply but I've noticed if a fleet gets caught with several combats in a row they tend to get trapped and can't escape to resupply.

I've asked MM what's up and what plans there might be with population happiness considering it's implementation. I'll see what the response is before making more changes.

[Captain Kwok]

GuyOfDoom said:
If it might ask why? I've always considered the Racial techs underpowered considering you have to pay racial points and then research them. For 1,000 points Ancient Race gives you far too much information.

It's mostly based on discussion contained here:
http://home.spaceempires.net/ftopict-2669.html

[se5a]

Kwok - I've had a neutral building fighters with no weapons in 1.07

[Q]

Will there be any AI problems continuing a BM v1.07 game with the new v1.08?

[Captain Kwok]

It should be ok.