Balance Mod Available for SE:V

[MasterChiToes]

I am 25 years into my first Balance Mod game. I have already completed all the Research, and was a little annoyed that I couldn't find a "scrap facility type" option in se5. I would favor certain cost increases for higher level techs, especially the way too cheap civic achievements and the progressive upgrades of the final techs of each branch (eg atmosphere converters levels 2+).

The one se5 change I'm most wanting has nothing to do with the Balance Mod... I would like a way to sort component lists and facility lists other than the first built order... maybe with a configurable order via a text file or from the empire screen.

The Balance Mod is a must! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Romulus68]

MasterChiToes said:
I am 25 years into my first Balance Mod game. I have already completed all the Research, and was a little annoyed that I couldn't find a "scrap facility type" option in se5.



BTW, I think we all asked this question. Scrap Facilty = CTRL K (momentary brain loss.....is that correct?? lol)

[MasterChiToes]

Romulus68 said:

MasterChiToes said:
I am 25 years into my first Balance Mod game. I have already completed all the Research, and was a little annoyed that I couldn't find a "scrap facility type" option in se5.



BTW, I think we all asked this question. Scrap Facilty = CTRL K (momentary brain loss.....is that correct?? lol)



Heh, I wanted to be able to scrap all my research facilities on all my colonies at once... like you could do in SEIV.

[Atrocities]

So why hasn't Aaron incorporated your Balance Mod into Stock SE V? Lets face it, no one plays stock SE V any more. Your mod is the only thing that really makes the game playable for any duration.

[Ironmanbc]

I bet it will come out after ver 1.49 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif just as ya see the /threads/images/Graemlins/icon05.gifGOLD /threads/images/Graemlins/icon05.gif ver comes out LOL

[Tim_Ward]

Atrocities said:
So why hasn't Aaron incorporated your Balance Mod into Stock SE V? Lets face it, no one plays stock SE V any more. Your mod is the only thing that really makes the game playable for any duration.

+

Legal issues, probably.

[gregebowman]

Will any of these improvements correct whatever problem there is in creating a sphere or ring world? I really, really want to create one, but in my 1.06 game, I never could find out the correct procedure to make one.

[RCCCL]

I haven't had the teck levels for a number of versions to create one, but you have to make sure there are enough of the right components, only one star in the system, and make sure there are no non component ships or colonies(and maybe even units)within 6 spaces of the sun.

:Edit:

I forgot to post this, and I don't know if it has been addressed, but in 1.07 I kept running into a problem with ground combat. If during the space combat, while troops are being deployed, a planet launched fighters, and at least one fighter was damaged to a point where it had no movement, but was undestroyed, during ground combat I would be unable to conquer the planet. It seems the fighter would be stored back on the planet after the space combat, but for whatever reason would not be there during ground combat, and if it has no movement it will not launch in subsequent space battles. The only solution I've found is to have ships bombard the planet, at the cost of my own troops, till the lone fighter is destroyed, in which case the planet immediately falls under my control without any further ground combat.

[Captain Kwok]

Find updated scripts here to fix AI Fighter Bomber designs with no weapons:
http://www.captainkwok.net/files/v108ScriptFix.zip

Note that it will take a bit of time for the race to replace their old fighter bombers.

[Q]

Kwok I observed a strange problem in BM 1.07 with AI team mod:

Until stardate around 2012.0 the team mod seems to function as expected with no combats occuring (according to the red bars during turn processing) between AI empires. Every AI empire is at war with me. Now something changed as I observe several combats between AI's and if I control the treaties between them, they change almost every turn between "no treaty" and some kind of treaty. No war declaration between AI's but no treaty is of course enough to trigger combats. I am still at war with every AI empire.
Do you know how the AI team mod is suppose to work?
Is this something for MM to fix or something in BM?

[Captain Kwok]

I think what is happening is that they are becoming angry enough with each other so that they break their treaty but then next turn the scripts tell them to make a new treaty. What I need to do is make a condition for them not to break their treaty. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Q]

Exactly. I checked their mood against each other and it was all angry or murderous. They make a treaty, next turn they break the treaty, and another turn later they make a treaty again!
Would that change you intend to make be effective in an ongoing game??

[Captain Kwok]

I can provide you an AI patch for that later today.

[Q]

That would be absolutely fabulous! Thank you very much Kwok.

[Hippocrates]

Captain Kwok said:
I can provide you an AI patch for that later today.



Hot dog! I tend to play "team mode" games exclusively in single player, and run into this problem *all* the time. Any kind of patch to address this would be awesome!

Thanks, Kwok.

[Captain Kwok]

It turns out that I have conditions for team mode in place already for AIs in team mode not to break their treaty or declare war on each other. Might require a bit more investigation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

If you can e-mail your saved game Q, it will help to troubleshoot.

[Q]

Kwok I sent you the savegame by e-mail as the upload here didn't work.
Are you sure you already have the insruction not to break the treaty in your scrips?
I looked at the BM 1.05 Scrip_AI_Politic.txt (did you post somewhere the newer scrip versions?) and didn't find it. There are instructions to make treaties and not to to declare war, which seems to function, on AI team empires, but where is this instruction not to break treaties with AI empires?

[Captain Kwok]

The "break treaty" section was right after the "declare war" section. I've modified them all last night anyway to reduce the lines of script and it seems to be working correctly.

However, I've noticed from the save game that Hippocrates sent, a few errors with the AI's fleeting routine that I'm in the middle of fixing up. I should be able to post an updated set of scripts this afternoon.

[MasterChiToes]

I keep getting news reports of planets joining me due to my sabotage, but the planets are only forming new breakaway empires. Is this problem in stock se5 too?

[Captain Kwok]

There supposed to form new empires... so it's more of an error in the project description.

Is the race you're targeting much smaller? Are you finding it too easy to cause their planets to revolt? How many points are you using on intel versus this empire?

[Q]

Sorry Kwok, if I repeat my question again but will your AI team mod patch be effective in an ongoing game or only for new games??

Wouldn't it be good if the anger level was also greatly influenced towards friendly by the AI team mod? As far as I understand the treaty elements are determined by the anger level and in the team mod a high level of cooperation treaty would be optimal.

[MasterChiToes]

The race is much smaller... I think my intel generation is over 500k. I stopped the sabotage because it was just too crippling to the AI... but oddly, the AI still successfully complete their own small intel projects against me with 70% of my points left to defense.

(Create Planet has failed twice on me during turn processing... I think the ship was left with zero movement points before the turn processing with just the create planet order left in the queue... it creates a planet but there is no planet afterward.)

[SothoTalKer]

Is leaky Intel maybe a bit too leaky?
I play a normal game and at least 4 or 5 intel projects break through my defense every turn.
This is a normal 1.08 game with all 13 empires known by me. My Intel points per turn are 3360, the other empires have 0, 0, 1220, 1230, 1360, 1770, 3050, 3180, 3515, 4655, 6420, 12265 points.

Is this by design?

[Romulus68]

If I do my turn in BM1.08 and our PBW game is BM1.06. What are the reprecussions of that?

My single player game is 1.08, but we are 1.06 PBW and i'm running only one copy of the game on my pc.

[geoschmo]

Romulus68 said:
If I do my turn in BM1.08 and our PBW game is BM1.06. What are the reprecussions of that?

My single player game is 1.08, but we are 1.06 PBW and i'm running only one copy of the game on my pc.

Actually, your game on PBW has been running 1.05. The version labelled on PBW as 1.05+ is still running 1.05. So if you've been ok using 1.06 and the server is running 1.05 it's possible that you using 1.08 when the server is using 1.05 will be ok too.

However, I'm loading 1.08 on the server soon, so it won't be a problem for long.

Geoschmo

[Romulus68]

geoschmo said:

Romulus68 said:
If I do my turn in BM1.08 and our PBW game is BM1.06. What are the reprecussions of that?

My single player game is 1.08, but we are 1.06 PBW and i'm running only one copy of the game on my pc.

Actually, your game on PBW has been running 1.05. The version labelled on PBW as 1.05+ is still running 1.05. So if you've been ok using 1.06 and the server is running 1.05 it's possible that you using 1.08 when the server is using 1.05 will be ok too.

However, I'm loading 1.08 on the server soon, so it won't be a problem for long.

Geoschmo



wahoo on 1.08!

any ETA?

[geoschmo]

Romulus68 said:

wahoo on 1.08!

any ETA?


Yes, the mod is ready to go on PBW. You'll want to check with your game owner on the percise timing of upgrading in your game, but it's ready when he is.

Geoschmo

[javaslinger]

What exactly does it mean 'folder name 1.05+' for BM1.08? Is that anything I need to be concerned with as a game admin or as a player?

Thanks,

Javaslinger

[Captain Kwok]

It essentially means a game started in v1.05 on PBW can be upgraded to v1.08.

[Q]

Kwok I took your AI Politics Script file from version 1.08 and inserted this under the break treaty section:

// Don't break our treaty with AI players if we are using AI team mode
if (Sys_Is_Game_Using_Teams()) then
if (Sys_Empire_Politics_Is_Player_On_Our_Team(sys_lon g_Player_ID, plr_index)) then
set new_msg_type := 0
endif
endif

Recompiled the AI main script cfs file and replaced the old ones with it.
To my great joy after two turns all 10 AI empires had again treaties with all other AI empires!

[Captain Kwok]

That's how I changed it as well. I had it setup if the player wasn't on our team to break the treaty, but it was being "overwritten" by another condition that followed, allowing for the treaty to be broken still.

[MasterChiToes]

excuse my ignorance, is it the mod or just another game bug that leaves me with half a dozen separate populations of conquered amon'krie on the same planet? What I would give for them to merge, at least eventually.

[Captain Kwok]

Are they under different flags?

[MasterChiToes]

Captain Kwok said:
Are they under different flags?



They all seem to have my flag. Seven distinct groups of Amon'krie that are identical, as far as I can see. Early on I did sabotage the Amon'krie causing some of their planets to revolt, however, when I started conquering them there was only one breakaway empire left. The Amon'krie are now fully conquered, and I have been spreading them into my new systems.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

Just wanted to keep those interested informed of the upcoming plans for the Balance Mod.

I'm working on v1.09 to be released with the next SE:V patch. So far it's a few AI improvements and a couple of data file fixes. It should also be compatible with the German/French versions of SE:V, assuming that capacity is added by the patch.

After that, I'll be working on v1.10, which will definitely be a save-game and PBW breaking version. It will feature major AI updates (stellar manipulation usage, cloak usage, etc), a new set of override slots and whatever data file tweaks that are felt necessary. This version will likely be posted at the end of the summer since I'll be away most of July and will need a significant amount of time to test with the AI work.

If all goes well with v1.10 and there's no real issues with it then I'll consider it the final version for now. That will give me the time to work on the new Galaxy Mod.

[Romulus68]

Kwok,

Can you add a new combat tactic for players and the AI to use. As you may have noticed I really love fighters in the game and I'm trying to get them to a good play level.

We need a combat order for Carriers to get them to behave better in combat. If you have them set to "Don't get hurt" they fly away from the fight launching fighters in a line of spreadout fighters making them VERY ineffective. If you have the carrier move towards the enemy it launches fighters in a manor it should having them arrive in a nice strong group together versus being vastly spreadout.

What I'm asking for is a combat order geared towards Carriers. The order needs to be rather simple:
1. Fly towards the enemy launching fighters.
2. Once empty switch to "Don't get Hurt" and move away from the enemy.
3. If you have a fighting carrier then just use one of the other orders for it.
The new order will be very useful for players and the AI.

[Captain Kwok]

I actually was going to put a weapon on Carriers, which would allow them to use the Max Range Strategy without running away and launch their fighters in more of a "cloud". There's no real way to get the AI to launch as you have suggested that I know of.

[Q]

Kwok if you introduce such major changes in 1.10 with new AI activities like stellar manipulation, I would be prepared to at least one more version 1.11 to fix some imperfections you might discover after the public launch of 1.10 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif .

[Romulus68]

Captain Kwok said:
I actually was going to put a weapon on Carriers, which would allow them to use the Max Range Strategy without running away and launch their fighters in more of a "cloud". There's no real way to get the AI to launch as you have suggested that I know of.



Is this something we could ask Aaron about? Just a new option to check if cargo is empty. True/False.....if empty the ship retreats = True.

[Romulus68]

What is the word on the next patch release date?

[Captain Kwok]

I'd guess it would be the Monday before July 4th - but that's only a guess.

[Romulus68]

Looking at your BM Tech Chart.

To steal Technology requires:

AS61 - Sabotage - Empire Wide
AS58(3)

Or is it the Espionage Empie Wide to steal tech?

Any certain level? or higher leveles equals higher chance?

what does: └[IP] Research Stolen (1:10) mean, especially the numbers in parenthesis.

[Captain Kwok]

That tech area becomes available at level 3 in Intelligence Services. Improvements in the tech area will improve the efficiency of attack points for that area. The parenthesis with the range of levels shouldn't really be there since the projects themselves don't have levels, so I'll get rid of them for the next update. It's the intel area, such as Empire Wide - Espionage, that have actual levels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Check the first page of the tech chart to see the format of the chart and explanations for abbreviations etc.

[Captain Kwok]

I thought for v1.10 that I would like to increase maintenance rates (back to original stock levels) to slightly curtail the mod's expansion rate and the amount of objects in play to improve general performance.

The current rates:
Ships: 25%
Units: 5%
Facilities: 5%

Proposed Rates:
Ships - 25%
Units - 10%
Facilities - 10%

A welcomed move?

[Q]

I don't think that will slow down the expansion rate.

More efficient ways would IMO be:
- reduce research point generation
- reduce resource point generation
- increase colony module cost
- increase facility cost

But that is just my opinion.

[aegisx]

How about colony resource consumption? Right now they consume very little in the way of resources.

[BlueTemplar]

It could slow down the expansion rates a little bit, but 1000 minerals/turn instead of 500/turn for a construction Yard won't make that much of a change.
(= still better than now?)

It will make a change after that though, when you build up the insfrastructure on your planets, satellites, weapon platforms and troops. So it should slow down the build up a little bit.
(= GOOD?)

I think it will help extensive empires a little bit, because the area (=productive planets) grows faster than radius (=system to put defenses into), and stationnary defenses will be more expensive.
(= BAD?)

It should help momentum (agressive) empires a little bit, since stationnary defenses will be more expensive to mantain.
(= GOOD?)

Also fighters will be more costly to maintain.
(= GOOD?)

Ressource bonuses and techs, reduced maintenance will become more important.
(= GOOD?)

I fear it will make the mineral planets more important, thus expansion could become even more important!
(= VERY BAD!)

[AstralWanderer]

Add a maintenance modifier that increases with empire size (whether it be number of planets, number of units, etc) making items more expensive for larger empires (simulating an increase in bureaucratic inefficiency or corruption). That could slow down expansion for larger players.

[BlueTemplar]

- reduce research point generation
- reduce resource point generation

- increase facility cost



That would make the problem even worse... you'll want to get more planets to compensate.

[BlueTemplar]

Add a maintenance modifier that increases with empire size (whether it be number of planets, number of units, etc) making items more expensive for larger empires (simulating an increase in bureaucratic inefficiency or corruption). That could slow down expansion for larger players.


That would be great! Could that be modded?

[Captain Kwok]

It's an interesting idea, but would require at least a bit of hard-code change, such as allowing the use of formulas in the maintenance settings.

I could probably do something off the record with the event script to do this now, but it would be difficult to communicate to the player. I would definitely consider doing something like this is my next mod, where each turn I would create an event under "corruption" etc. that advised how many resources were lost due to various factors.

---

In terms of expansion, the maintenance increase will reduce ship and unit counts, not just due to their higher support costs, but also due to the increased facility maintenance fees. This means you won't be able to support quite the amount of colony ships or total construction queues you were prior to the change - thus reducing expansion to some degree.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

...Could you increase the actual cost of stuff by empire size?

[Romulus68]

Leaky Intel needs some number tweaking as well. I'm not sure if its the large amount of Intel we are hitting each other with or the intel formula being a little too loose (leaky).

[BlueTemplar]

Yes, I find it a little bit too leaky too:
22-29% of sucess when both players have the same intel points (counting the 20% bonus of the defending player) is probably a little bit too high.

[Captain Kwok]

It's a combination of two factors. First, the defense contribution to the formula should probably be weighted heavier in the formula. Second, I have already increased project costs for v1.09, which should help reduce the overall number of projects being executed per turn.

[Romulus68]

Its a tough one to balance. i love intel, so i'm not just trying to get it lowered. Just hoping we can find a happy medium that works well.

[MasterChiToes]

I'd love some diplomacy balancing too. If I get a good start or a bad start, none of the AI will agree to a treaty, even if it is in their best interest. I get rather annoyed when it is clear after 20 turns that the game is going to be nothing but clobbering.

[se5a]

can the AI ask and accept a treaty which is not colonize each others systems?

[Captain Kwok]

se5a said:
can the AI ask and accept a treaty which is not colonize each others systems?

Yes. The key factor is a mix of anger/fear versus your Empire.

[DrewBlack]

Hi Kwok

Will be getting the 1.09 version VERY SOON!!!!
Dont want to start another campaign if there is one being released in the next 2 days???

Drew

[Captain Kwok]

v1.09 will require the next SE:V patch, so it depends on when that happens and if/when I can upload it while I'm away on holidays.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

I'll be away on holiday from July 5th-24th.

I won't really have internet access until July 16th. I might be able to post a patch for the mod around then if MM releases the next SE:V patch. If not, you'll have to wait another week.

[marhawkman]

So where is the list of all the stuff that got changed?

[Randallw]

I see Kwok is on holiday. Well anyway I am having a persistent problem with any ship/base designed to have remote resource gatherers. The design vanishes by the next turn. I an ancient temporal race if that matters. I sent the turn to Aaron.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

The link below has an updated set of miltia values to correct a bug with miltia amounts in v1.44 of SE:V.

http://www.captainkwok.net/files/Settings.zip

Download and unzip to your Balance Mod's data folder.

[gregebowman]

Can I play with BM 1.08 and SEV 1.44? Are they compatible?

[geoschmo]

gregebowman said:
Can I play with BM 1.08 and SEV 1.44? Are they compatible?

I set it up on PBW. If it's not capatible someone let me know and I'll take it down.

[se5a]

yes it's fine.

[boromeo]

Well patch 1.44 would speed up your game and it does in vanilla game , but used with BM 1.08 there's still that memory leak that i don't have with vanilla one . Also i noticed a lot of damaged ships when i am not in war with anyone and the log wouldn't say a thing about this , and i have some 1 movement point ships too all these things while i am around turn 70

[gregebowman]

Well, I went ahead and install 1.44, and have noticed no problem with my 1.08 game. Hopefully, when the BM 1.09 (or whatever number it is ) comes out, I can still play my old game.

[Captain Kwok]

I'll be posting v1.09 tonight. Just need to run a few quick tests to make sure a few changes that were made are working as intended.

---

I'm also starting on work for v1.10 this weekend. I'm looking for some ideas to govern the AI's use of WP openers and closers - I'll be adding that functionality in for v1.10.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

After a brief hiatus, the next version of the Balance Mod has been posted. The v1.09 update focuses on AI improvements and some adjustments to the intel system. There's also the usually batch of small fixes and tweaks.

Note you'll need SE:V v1.44 to use v1.09 and save games should be ok upgrading to the new version. Note this is the last version that will be compatible with the v105+ BM folder. The next update, v1.10, will definitely be a PBW and save game buster.

Grab v1.09 here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Version 1.09 (27 July 2007)
---------------------------

1. Fixed - Error in ability amount for small ECM
2. Changed - Increased cost of Colony Module components
3. Changed - Increased shield points for Small Shield Generator
4. Changed - Increased structure for Small Emissive Armor
5. Changed - Fixed error in Militia amounts in settings.txt
6. Changed - Fixed error with some unique ruin technologies never being available
7. Changed - AI will no longer devevelop intel operations when intelligence is not allowed by the game setup
8. Fixed - Error in Change Crew Experience intel project
9. Changed - The intel project for a planet to rebel will no longer spawn a new empire, but join
the source Empire
10. Changed - In order for a planet to rebel due to intelligence, the population must be very unhappy
11. Changed - The amount of disruption to another Empire's research or intel due to an intel project is more variable
12. Changed - Adjusted the costs to conduct some intel projects
13. Fixed - Error with Drushocka weapon selection
14. Fixed - Some races did not have a Small Secondary Weapon designation
15. Fixed - Sometimes AI Fighter Bomber design had no weapons
16. Fixed - Error in Sithrak fighter weapon selection
17. Fixed - AIs in team mode sometimes broke treaties they had with each other
18. Changed - AI will research more efficiently by spending only the points require to reach the next level
19. Added - New locations for AI to hold their fleets while they wait for ships to join
20. Changed - Slightly increased AI use of Weapon Platforms
21. Changed - Tweaked AI's anger values towards other empires with respect to war, treaty, or known status types
22. Changed - Modified the AI's anger calculation to be more dynamic
23. Fixed - Sometimes specific Empire AI values for political settings were being overridden by default values
24. Fixed - Error that resulted in the AI building too many Resuppy Depots on some colonies
25. Updated - AI Scripts
</pre><hr />

[Hippocrates]

Between 1.44 and the BM 1.09, these are some of the most significant improvements yet! Thanks for your continued dedication, Kwok!

[Captain Kwok]

If you've downloaded the mod in the last 45 minutes - delete the soundeffects.txt file in the data folder. I've left in my custom sound file (again) and it will cause an error.

The .zip/.rar file on my site has been updated as of now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[javaslinger]

Is the differences btwn 1.08 and 1.09 largely for single player games? Would it be much of a difference in an entirely multiplayer (no AI) game?

Thanks,

Javaslinger

[Captain Kwok]

The changes to intel would be important to PBW games.

[BlueTemplar]

That's why I'm sure plenty of people are interested in AI Scripts files... Is there any way to get them directly from your mod?

[Captain Kwok]

I'll be putting together a little AI patch for v1.09 to fix a couple of bugs that were found in the next day or so. I'll post the source scripts once that patch is posted.

[Q]

Thank you again Kwok for your work.
As I could not play much version 1.09, I dont't know if you already made some chances how the AI handles resupply.
In my last game (version 1.08) the AI have in team mod 10x more ships than I have but they run out of supplies and are therefore crippled. I suggest two solutions:
1.) Let the AI research solar collectors early and include 1-2 of these components in each ship design.
2.) Let the AI make treaties that share supplies (if this feature is functional, I never tested it).

[Captain Kwok]

I didn't do anything directly to effect how the AI supplies in v1.09 - however I did put more emphasis on Supply Ships to be built earlier. Solar Collectors are designated as an early area to research and the Supply Ships will add a number of collectors if they're available.

However, I should probably dedicate some time to track the resupply issue to figure out the leading causes. From a script perspective, there's a few precautionary measures that should be reducing the frequency, but they don't seem to be working all that well.

[Q]

As a human player I use solar 1-2 collectors on almost all ships as specialized supply ships may not be at the place you need them most!
I just tested the share resupply treaty element and it seems to work.

[Captain Kwok]

I could have the AI add solar collectors on larger ships without much problem. Currently they're added to Supply Ships and Scout/Explorer Ships.

The element for sharing supplies is sometimes added to trade level treaties, always included for military alliance and partnership level treaties. It should be more common in the latest patch between friendly AIs.

[Captain Kwok]

I'll be posting a mini AI patch for v1.09 on Friday morning. It will address a couple of items such as the new AI team mode bug, the AI no surrender bug, and a few other things.

[Q]

Some more observations regarding resupply of AI empires:

It is a game with me as human empire against 11 AI empires in team mod in a galaxy of about 150 systems at 2418.0.
The AI empires are huge compared with my empire with large number of ships: Sergetti have around 750 ships and they are not the biggest AI empire. They do have treaties with supplies sharing. They have researched solar collectors, but no ship design is using them (light cruiser is the current ship size with solar sails). As a consequence 3/4 of all ships are on low supplies, many of them have zero supplies which prevents almost all attacks on me.

[Captain Kwok]

I've been able to figure out why the ship's were not resupplying as they should be. It turns out the boolean variable I was using to mark certain design types to never resupply was being applied to all design types. It's default value was false and I never had a condition that made it true. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

That's the second bug like this in the last day that have caused an issue. Previously a similar issue was preventing the AI from surrendering with an incorrect result in a calculation resulting in an always false statement.

[Q]

But you can be proud of your AI: AI empires with hundreds of ships, good research, robust economy.
I use now your mod as a basis to create my own mod.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

I've posted an updated set of scripts for v1.09 of the Balance Mod. The updated scripts fix a number of issues including AI resupply and surrender, team mode, and a few design issues.

Just extract the scripts to your Balance Mod folder. It will overwrite the existing scripts with the new ones. If you haven't installed v1.09 of the mod, do that first before applying the AI patch.

You can find the AI patch and v1.09 here: http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

I've also posted the source scripts as well.

[Kamog]

Thank you, Captain Kwok. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Q]

AI version 1.09:

The AI empires seems very reluctant to attack warp points in systems, where they have no sight. It is possible that this is due to the lack of memory for enemy colonies, but I looked at the AI Orders Ship Script and didn't find any attack locations for warp points. In situations where the AI does not see any ememy ships and colonies, it would be good if he attacks with fleets warp points adjacent to his systems.
At present he sends only scout ships but these have of course no chance even against moderate warp point defenses.

[Randallw]

Will having a mix of 1.08/1.09 and the ai/militia patches cause problems with a game? I am in one BM game that has no problems and another which can't get past the first turn without an unknown fatal error.

[BlueTemplar]

Why would you "mix" 1.08 and 1.09?

[Slick]

I'd recommend adding some "repair facility" ability to each planet on the next revision.

[Randallw]

We wonder if the reason the game won't work is because some players have 1.08 and some might have 1.09, and then some might have the little ai or militia upgrade and some might not. I don't know if a little difference in the ai or militia file might cause the game to crash on the second turn.

[se5a]

This is probibly more of an FQM bug, but the system names file has Lezzari twice...

Though will this just cause it to be twice as likely to be included as a system? will it allow there to be more than one system of the same name?

[Baron Grazic]

Yes, the Lezzari system can be added twice in the one game. It is fine in the Standard game, but doubled in BalMod &amp; JunkYards. Thanks in advance for fixing this HUGE problem, Guys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[BlueTemplar]

to Randallw: are you talking about a multiplayer game? In that case, it probably would be for the best for every player to use the same version of BM anyway...

[RCCCL]

Kwok:

I haven't tested this in a game with out the balace mod, but when you select multiple ships and then change systems to issue orders, it clears the selection of ships, I've had to either put the ships into fleets and then disband them when they get to the destination, or issue orders for a single system ie: warping through a warp point, then after those are done issueing orders for the new sytstem.

also on intel, i'm getting messages that suggest enemy intel attacks are succeding, but in the intel screen I have no failures on intel defense.

[Kamog]

RCCCL said:
also on intel, i'm getting messages that suggest enemy intel attacks are succeding, but in the intel screen I have no failures on intel defense.



I have seen this happen too. The event log at the start of my turn lists enemy intel operations that have occurred against my empire, seemingly successfully. However, in the Intel screen, Intel Defense shows all successes, like 10/10 for example. So far these intel attacks have all been espionage-type operations so I don't know whether they really succeeded or not.

[Fyron]

se5a said:
"This is probibly more of an FQM bug, but the system names file has Lezzari twice..."

Balance Mod uses the stock SystemNames.txt, with a bunch of stuff added by Kwok.

[Captain Kwok]

Yes, there is a current bug in the mod with the tracking of intel stats.

---

There was an error in the script that was allowing intel projects to be executed even if they should have failed. I posted an updated script here:
http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopict-2977.html

[DrewBlack]

hi Kwok

There is no file there.... or am i really being thick.."answers on a postcard..."

Drew

[Captain Kwok]

It's attached to the first post in that thread.

[DrewBlack]

Kwok could you post here or on your web site... im really having a bad day cant get at it at all.

NOTE TO SELF LOG IN!!!!!!


Thanks

Drew

[Captain Kwok]

An alternative download for the intel script is here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/files/script_main_intelligence.zip

Extract to your Balance Mod's data folder.

[Captain Kwok]

I've added a help and FAQs page for the Balance Mod. I could use some more content - so let me know if there's something you want added...

Help: http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemodhelp.php
FAQS: http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemodfaqs.php

[Romulus68]

In the BM can you use Intel actions that you have not researched, yet?

For example: At Intel 1. Can I lend Intel Points to a ally even though lending Intel requires level 5?

If I'm at Intel 1, then choose "Sabotage Empire wide" will I carry out the action like normal, not at all or at a diminished rate?

[Tim_Ward]

RCCCL said:
Kwok:

I haven't tested this in a game with out the balace mod, but when you select multiple ships and then change systems to issue orders, it clears the selection of ships, I've had to either put the ships into fleets and then disband them when they get to the destination, or issue orders for a single system ie: warping through a warp point, then after those are done issueing orders for the new sytstem.



It's not a balance mod bug, it's the same in stock.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings.

I'd like a couple of testers to try out the next version (v1.10) of the Balance Mod. I just need some feedback to see how the AI is doing under different game setups etc.

Send me an e-mail or PM with your contact info if you're interested...

[Q]

Would these new AI files work in an ongoing game or only in a new game?
At the moment I am in two large games, where it would be interesting to see differences in the AI (especially regarding attacking warp points as I mentioned earlier), but I am afraid I don't have the time to start new games.

[Captain Kwok]

It'd have to be a new game, v1.10 is not compatible with earlier versions. But, the updated AI scripts should be ok if you just wanted to swap them in.

[Captain Kwok]

Here's a sneak peak at the current change log for v1.10:

Version 1.10:

XX. Fixed - Error in ShipExperience.txt was preventing combat bonuses due to experience from being applied
XX. Changed - Increased the maintenance cost for ships and units to stock values
XX. Changed - Armor reduced to 5kT size
XX. Changed - Pictures for 5kT Supply Storage and 5kT Ordnance Storage components
XX. Changed - Reduced Intel defense modifier
XX. Changed - Increased Supply and Ordnance storage on planets
XX. Changed - Reduced the ordnance supplied by Emergency Reordnance Pods
XX. Changed - Drone Launchers count towards Carrier requirements
XX. Changed - Small Rocket Pods can now be placed on troops
XX. Fixed - Medical Ship design type could not be choosen by players
XX. Changed - Removed Green Stars
XX. Changed - Increased storage amounts for resource storage facilities
XX. Changed - Reduced Storage tech area to 11 levels and increased its cost
XX. Changed - Reduced Medical Treatment tech area to 5 levels and increased its cost
XX. Changed - Reduced Medical Lab facility to 5 levels
XX. Changed - Lots of little changes to facility costs and structure amounts
XX. Changed - Genetic Recoding Labs now has a ground combat modifier ability
XX. Changed - Reduced Temporal Vacation Service facility to 5 levels
XX. Changed - Reduced Urban Pacification Center facility to 5 levels
XX. Changed - Reduced Psychic Scanner to 11 levels
XX. Changed - Reduced Fate Shrine to 5 levels
XX. Changed - Reduced Nature Shrine to 5 levels
XX. Changed - Reduced Time Shrine to 5 levels
XX. Changed - Re-organized Religious Technology facility availability
XX. Changed - Interspersed Climate Modification Plant and Value Improvement Plant in Planet Utilization tech area
XX. Changed - Seeker weapons can now be placed on Inner hull slots
XX. Fixed - Various typos in component and facility data files
XX. Fixed - Sergetti ships were sometimes designed without weapons
XX. Fixed - Norak fighters and troops were sometimes designed without weapons
XX. Fixed - Druschoka Attack Ships were sometimes designed without weapons*
XX. Fixed - AIs were no longer immediately hostile to human players in AI team mode
XX. Fixed - AI ships and fleets were not resupplying as often as required*
XX. Fixed - Error in Medical Ship minister
XX. Fixed - Ships weren't always choosing the most appropriate fleet to join
XX. Fixed - Error in AI selection of systems to attack
XX. Fixed - The AI was never giving up, never surrending*
XX. Added - AI will use SY Ships to construct remote defense bases
XX. Added - AI will break their treaties with the Mega Evil player
XX. Changed - AI will now use Carriers for Drone Carrier design type
XX. Changed - Made the AI's selection of facilities more dynamic
XX. Changed - Made the AI's vehicle purchase selection more efficient
XX. Changed - Improved the AI's handling of resources
XX. Fixed - AI wasn't using Fighter and Drone Groups effectively
XX. Updated - AI Scripts

* Item added in AI Patch for v1.09

[Ed Kolis]

Very nice changelist! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


Captain Kwok said:
XX. Changed - Armor reduced to 5kT size




Wasn't it that way in stock? Didn't you increase it to 10kT to make adding armor to ships less repetitive and reduce slot wastage?


XX. Changed - Drone Launchers count towards Carrier requirements



Yay! Surprise drone carrier attacks FTW! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


XX. Fixed - AIs were no longer immediately hostile to human players in AI team mode



They were immediately hostile and you fixed it so they're not, or vice versa?


XX. Fixed - The AI was never giving up, never surrending*



Hehe, nice Galaxy Quest reference http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


XX. Added - AI will use SY Ships to construct remote defense bases



Ooh, like in SE2 how they put defense bases on warp points... Should make Neutrals a LOT more interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Actually when I first started the mod, armor was 10kT in stock as well. I didn't change it to 5kT after stock at the time primarily due to concern about the number of armor slots - but it turns out it wasn't really an issue. I might be do a 5kT and 10kT Light and Heavy armor (same hitpoint/kT ratio) for user preference.

The galaxy quest reference was first used by RogerN when he reported the no surrender issue and so I threw in the changelog.

I wanted the AI to get somewhat ornery about human players, but not necessarily declare war right away. However, they were being too friendly, which meant they were less aggressive.

The remote Defense Bases scheme is still being tested... often before the SY Ship gets to a WP it gets an order to build another ship instead. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[javaslinger]

Any ETA?

Thanks,

Javaslinger

[Captain Kwok]

I'm aiming for next Friday (Aug 31) before I go away for the Labour Day weekend.

[DrewBlack]

Hi Kwok

Are you still looking for testers before you release??
If so im up for it.

Drew

[Captain Kwok]

Hopefully I'll have something ready to go for the testers. I had hope to debug the new AI facility scheme and send out the update - but this weekend got consumed by softball playoffs and painting!

[ElectricEel]

Captain Kwok said:
Here's a sneak peak at the current change log for v1.10:

Looks good.

I just noticed that normal baseships have no defense modifier. I assume they should have a -60% modifier, since that is the defense modifier organic baseships have.

Also, starbases have only a -20% defense modifier, while space stations have a -30% modifier.

[Dan_]

Is it possible to put the obscuration level in the description for storm, asteroids, warp points etc. so we know what sensors are needed to see the sector?

Also, I had a problem where 25 fighters with rocket pods using max range strategy could not hit a frigate moving away from them. It seemed they stayed just out of range so the rockets never hit (and were all destroyed by this crappy little ship which was very annoying). Is there anything that can be tweaked to correct this?

I looked to see if I could change the strategy so they stayed at range 40 (rockets have range 50), but there are only three options, close, medium and long range which I saw defined in settings as 50, 100 and 150. Do you know any way I can use these fighters without having them fire at point blank or out of range?

The requirements for torpedo weapons is incorrect in the tech chart for 1.09. I think there were other inconsistencies, but I don't remember exactly what now.

One other thing - the increase in cost and effectiveness of the shields seemed a bit unbalanced to me - I almost regretted researching level 2.

[Captain Kwok]

I'll add descriptions in for warp points and storms with obscuration effects. I might not put in the implicit level, but will indicate if it's beyond low level sensors etc.

The max range strategy is sort of a problem with SE:5, which may or may not be fixed in the v1.50-ish patch. With a short range of 50, optimal range will more or less work the same as max range but without the "target leading bug".

I fixed most of the tech chart typos for v1.10.

The defense modifiers were typos in the formulas but have been fixed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Dan_]

Thanks man http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Edit] Do you think solar collectors should be made to create a small amount of supplies per second in combat? Would be useful against supply draining weapons etc.

[javaslinger]

Are warp points now not all the same?

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that the ability to have different types of warp points (size, damage, duration, etc) was not functioning? Or maybe it was just the size?

I think it would be awesome if the size part worked. So certain back doors into areas would only be able to be transited by smaller ships and larger ships would be able to be intercepted at choke points.....

It would add a lot to the possibility of 'designing' maps or scenarios....

Javaslinger

[Captain Kwok]

There's no way to generate supplies in combat.

---

Warp Points in the mod can have different abilities, such as obscuration or combat sensor disruption. The sizes don't have any effect though.

[Dan_]

Another thing, would you please allow the long range scanners to be used on drones?

[Edit] Something else I noticed with the drones is the organic large drone is quite different than the normal large drone in combat. The organic one displays much smaller, and seems to get 2X movement when the normal ones don't. I didn't check the crystal ones or other sizes.

[Captain Kwok]

I'll be away for the long weekend - likely without access to the interweb. It's likely that the next patch for SE:V will be out before v1.10 of the Balance Mod... if so, to make v1.09 compatible - add the new lines from settings.txt into the Balance Mod's settings.txt file.

[Romulus68]

Captain Kwok said:
I'll be away for the long weekend - likely without access to the interweb. It's likely that the next patch for SE:V will be out before v1.10 of the Balance Mod... if so, to make v1.09 compatible - add the new lines from settings.txt into the Balance Mod's settings.txt file.



Can you upload a Temp version with the lines already in it?

[Captain Kwok]

It looks like I'll be back home before anything is released, so it's a none issue. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Q]

Kwok I realized a small problem with fighter attacks on planets in BM:
You have a damage for killing population of
Population Amount Killed Per Damage Point := 0.04
which makes any damage less than 25 ineffective. Therefore some fighter weapons especially in earlier games will not kill population at all. Curiously the structure points of the planet decrease to a certain amount then it stops completely even if there is no real damage at all. In one occasion this caused even the game to crash.

[Spectarofdeath]

Quick question. I installed BM 1.09 (or latest) plus FQM 5.0 beta 11, followed your installation instructions. Now when I go to start a game for some reason I get Standard game, BM, and a FQM, when I go on the FQM it says something about unable to load a logo, pretty sure I'm not supposed to even have that as a choice, but just want to be sure, (since they both seem to work) but I which one do I need to play BM w/ FQM?

[Fyron]

That depends on how exactly you combined them. Copy/move the files from the FQM folder into the BM folder? If thats the case, you'd want to play the BM mod entry.

[Spectarofdeath]

Yes, copied the BM, then moved the FQM stuff into the new BM folder and renamed it BM FQM, as the BM readme stated to do.

[Captain Kwok]

It sounds as if your BM-FQM folder is contained within another folder in the Game Types folder... this would cause the image missing error and the non-listing of the hybrid mod as a game type.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

Just a quick post to let you know what's happening with the Balance mod. Currently I'm working on v1.10, which will be released with the next SE:V patch. It's a major update and will not be compatible with any previous versions. After that, I'll finish up v1.11, which will fix any problems with v1.10 and add a couple of AI features. That version will be the last update for a bit as I turn my attention to my new project. However, there will be a couple of AI updates as time permits.

v1.10 - Late September
v1.11 - Mid-October (1 Yr Anniversary!)

[Saber Cherry]

Hi!

I finally bought SE:V, hoping it was ready for prime-time. And I started out with the Balance mod... because it seemed to have generally positive feedback. And while I like the mod a lot, I have some feedback of my own. Let me clarify - I like the mod a lot, and have a lot of positive feedback about it, but I don't have time to waste praising you, so the positive feedback should be understood, and I will only address items that I think can be improved. So, please don't feel that this is criticism.


1) Bugs.
There are a lot of cases when the expected results of the next level of a technology includes something like "Small Fighter 4" and "Medium Fighter 1". When you research it, you get only the medium version, not the upgraded light version. True also for Satellites, and IIRC unit weapon mounts.

2) Trade and Resources.
Trade at max 30% is just too high... and, I think, resource extractor output is too high, as well. Even with units and buildings requiring maintenance, I cannot spend all my resources. I have a large empire of 50 colonies, 4 of which build colony ships nonstop, and several others of which build satellites and fighters nonstop. I trade with 4 other empires, at 30%. I have never researched any extractor technologies. And yet - 75% of my minerals, 50% of my organics, and 30% of my radioactives all come from my homeworld... in last 40 colonies I settled, I did not build a single extractor. Yet I run at an immense surplus! I have never felt any resource pressure, like I did constantly in SEIV, and I was only able to drop my minerals below 100k for a single turn when I upgraded all my research centers to level 3. I don't even care about resource %'s on new planets I find, since I'm only going to build resupply depots, shipyards, and research centers anyway... even on planets that are 150% across the board. Overall, aside from my homeworld, I have 1 mineral colony, 2 organic colonies, and 2 radioactive colonies... all (IIRC) unbreathable. And I've never felt any pressure at all.
I think 20% is a very good cap on maximum trade. And level 1 Extractors should extract maybe 800 resources... certainly not 2000.

3) Fighters, Fighter Armor, and Rocket Pods.
These are 10% the size of capital ship missiles and 50% as strong... and direct fire (with a fighter's inherent accuracy boost), so they cannot be stopped by point-defense. That seems way too strong for my taste, and logically inconsistent. I would suggest making them weaker, greatly increasing the ordinance use, and considering making them seekers.
I'd also be happier with fighters if they retained their high combat speed, but were REALLY SLOW in map movement. For example, currently, a small fighter with 4x ion engine 1 has 10 normal speed and 15 combat speed. And it does not really need a carrier. If that same fighter had 15 combat speed but only 5 normal speed, carriers would start to make a lot more sense... and I generally think of fighters as things with a high top speed, but insufficient fuel volume to maintain that high speed over long distances.
As for small armor... why is it (initially) twice as strong per Kt as ship armor? It is really, really good. I would still use it routinely if it was equivalent to ship armor. Fighter emissive armor, on the other hand, is worthless. Small Emissive Armor 1 is twice as big as normal Small Armor for the same protection... and sheds 1 damage per hit, which is worthless. You are ALWAYS better with 2 normal armor. Same with Small Emissive Armor 2. It is only at Small Emissive Armor 3 that you will break-even with the normal armor, versus fighter-size weapons. But versus point defense and normal-size weapons, Small Emissive Armor is always just junk. I suggest it be made 1 KT, like Small Armor, with the same protection as Small Armor, but twice as expensive... just like with ship armor.

4) Colony Modules.
I routinely scout with colony ships instead of scouts, because they are so similar in price - which, conceptually, is mind-boggling. The initial game is just a mad land-grab, pumping out a colony every 2-3 turns per shipyard... and landing on everything, even unbreathable tiny planets, because the cost is so trivial. I think colony modules should be perhaps 10x as expensive, and hold fewer colonists (say, 200k storage). But, at a bare minimum, you could probably make colony modules 2x or 3x as expensive - say, 5000m, 8000o, 2000r, without anyone complaining.

5) Ship Sizes.
I really like the QNP. However... I think it may be a little too extreme. I find that the next generation of ship is generally WORSE than the previous generation! For example, level-3 Frigates are 300Kt, and level-1 Destroyers are 350Kt. At max engines and minimal required components (life support, bridge, crew quarters), they have 170Kt and 180Kt free. Yet the frigate is much cheaper, uses less supply to move, and has a better defensive bonus... so... I would never build Destroyers! The same is true for Small Fighter 3 vs Medium Fighter 1, Light Carrier vs Carrier, and Small Transport vs Medium Transport. There is no incentive to increase shipbuilding technology when, given a choice, I build the older version anyway. I designed a Medium Transport 2... and noticed that it cost almost twice as much as a Light Transport 3, used twice as much supply (making supply modules inefficient), but only carried 50% more cargo! And, of course, could not go through small warp points.
So, I suggest you reduce the ramp in engine requirements. For example, medium fighters could use 5 rather than 6 engines, with a movement divisor of 5, and then they would at least have more room than small fighters, instead of the same amount of room with a higher cost and worse defense. Medium freighters should have 200 crew and maybe 7 engines. Light carriers and frigates should be a little smaller - say, 250 and 700 at level 3, with the required engines and crew for a light carrier perhaps reduced a little. Large Satellite Mount should perhaps require 110 Kt (medium) instead of 100 Kt (small), or else the defense bonus makes small satellites strictly better. Right now, the only non-minimal-sized vehicles I care about are the Light Cruiser, since it can use large ship mounts, and Medium Platform, since it can use heavy mounts. Otherwise... there is no reason to advance beyond level-3 of Frigate, Light Carrier, Small Transport, Small Satellite, and Small Fighter, since you spend precious research money but don't really get any advantages.

6) Anti-Proton Beams.
These are just way too good. Compared to DUCs, they consume no ordinance... have a +25% or so to hit at max range... AND do 30% more damage at max range... and 120% more at min range. I mean, outclassing DUCs is fine, but at least the damage at max range should be less, I think. If they had -40% damage at all ranges, so that they were 35% better than DUCs at range 1 and 20% worse at range 9, I would still always use them for the hit% and ordinance advantages. Especially considering that Meson Blasters have the same prereq as Anti-Proton Beams... there is just no comparison, APBs are vastly better. Meson Blasters are roughly as good as DUCs, though I prefer DUCs due to the better range. So - Meson Blasters have no reason to exist. Perhaps they could do 20% less damage, use 2 supplies, but have a 1.5 second reload? That might make them interesting against fighters, at least.

7) Sensors.
This seems to be the no-brainer to research from turn 1. They ramp so quickly - and not only give you a huge exploration boost, but even a good combat boost! I suggest making Sensor research slightly more expensive, say +25%. Or else, making the initial sensor range higher - say, 5 for Sensors 1 - and gaining +1 per level. Considering that engines get a 5% boost in speed per level, going from level 1 sensors to level 2 sensors increases the combat bonus by 100% and increases the sensor area by perhaps 150%. That is really incredible.
I think that range 5 for sensors 1 and +1 range per level would be best.

8) Ship Capture.
These start out so good, at 200 marines, that +20 per level is just too slow; there is little point in researching it past level 1. Starting them out at 100 marines, with +20 per level and the same research costs, would feel much better to me.

9) Resupply, Cargo, Storage.
These increase too slowly with research to bother with. It might be worthwhile to research a single level of resupply and cargo, because they are cheap... but at +10% per level, that is as far as I would go. +20% per level - with levels that are all 50% more expensive - seems more reasonable. And I don't really understand the logic of separating cargo from storage. They are both logically the same thing, and there is little incentive to research either of them, so why not put them together? I would never even consider researching storage as it is now.

10) Armor and Shields.
Armor starts at 60Kt/10Kt, has no prereqs, and gains +10Kt per level. That's a ratio of 6, +1/lv.
Shields have Physics prereq and (including the structure of the generator) start at 230Kt/30Kt, +20 per level. That's a ratio of 7, +.66/lv.
If you spend an equal amount of research, armor will be WAY better than shields. And considering that armor protects versus damaging warps and mines, while shields protect versus boarding and crystal shard guns, it is a tossup as to which is better. But generally... armor seems too strong, and to ramp too fast, while shields seem about right, but to ramp too slowly. Personally, I think armor should start at 50Kt/10Kt and gain +5Kt per level. Armor in SEIV was a bit weak, but this stuff is beastly... at level 12, armor is still only 65k to research a new level, but already gives an incredible 170Kt in a 10Kt slot!
Also: Scattering Armor 1, 2, and 3 are worthless (probably higher levels, too, but I have not really thought much about it yet). +3% evade on a 1000Kt structure ship, for example, gives... +30Kt. Whereas you get 120Kt of armor instead of 2 normal armors, which would have given 340Kt combined. So you lose 220Kt of armor to gain 30Kt of evasion, and pay a lot more for it!
At size 20Kt, I would give Scattering Armor an absolute minimum base armor of 200, +10 per level, or it will just be strictly worse than normal armor. And even then it would only be useful when combined with very good ECM versus very bad combat sensors, at long range.
And as I mentioned in the Fighters section, Small Armor is much too good compared to ship armor, and Small Emissive Armor is pretty much useless. Having them simply be 10% as strong as the ship versions, at 20% the price, and with Small Emissive retaining the 1, 2, ... absorbtion progression, makes more sense to me.


11) Engines, Afterburners, and Solar Sails.
Engines generate a large amount of movement that is then divided by some modifier. Solar Sails and Afterburners generate movement that is NOT divided by a modifier, which is confusing. Especially considering that fighter movement seems to be multiplied by 1.5 to determine combat speed in kps, it is hard to figure out how fast things will go. I suggest that you mention in the descriptions of Afterburners and Sails that movement points will not be divided by the modifier, and also (in fighter engine descriptions) how they affect combat speed. And furthermore, there is no indication of how much supply engines, sails, and afterburners gobble... adding that to the descriptions would be very useful. Ideally, the design description window would mention the ship's combat speed and supply usage per move, but since it doesn't, it needs to be in the component descriptions.
Also, as far as engines go, it seems to me that they start out too powerful, with too much storage, and ramp up in speed too (relatively) slowly. There is little incentive to research engine technology... personally, I would start Ion Engines 1 at about 500 supply and 80 movement, with +20 supply and +5 movement per level. I realize that
Lastly, I don't know if this is possible in a mod - probably not - but it would be nice if there was some relationship between acceleration and turn rate and engines. Or at least, components that affected them, like attitude thrusters and inertial compensators. It is odd for a ship with 0 engines to have the same accel as a ship with 5 engines.

[Suicide Junkie]

2) Trade and Resources.
Trade at max 30% is just too high...


I totally agree. I don't know why Aaron hardcoded it that way.

The other option is to max it at 0% by setting the trade increase per month to zero in settings.txt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

It would be great with an arbitrary max in settings.txt and a slider/spinner in the treaty options...


Re: Armor vs shields
Shields regenerate for free, while armor damage sends you back home to the SY.
If you're winning battles, the shields are better since you don't have to worry about repairs... if you're losing, armor is better since you don't have to worry about repairs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Lots of little items to respond to.

The first item is actually an SE5 display issue.

There were no settings at the time v1.09 was created that could alter the trade percentages. That will be changing with the next SE:V patch. You're high trade income in that game is really misleading how much you'll need to build resource facilities otherwise.

You'll want carriers to move fighters to non-colony systems.

There was an error in the Small Emissive Armor structure formula. It should have nearly the same HPs as Small Armor. It's emissive ability is only really worthwhile versus other fighter/troops as you'd expect. Although Small Armor starts at a bit higher kT/HP ratio than regular armor, it actually ends up at the same value as larger armor.

Rocket Pods look pretty good, but they do use ordnance and they have a low fire rate. Their overall damage ratios are similar to most other small weapons.

I've added more cost to Colony Components for v1.10.

Don't neglect that hulls can be upgraded, and those iffy level 1 350kT destroyers can easily be made into 400kT destroyers with a bit of research, which are also able to use large ship mounts. The remainder of the ship hulls are more intertwined, so it's usually a close equivalent when the next hull becomes available. There's also the addition of 5kT LS/CQ components in v1.10, that will help save space on some of the larger designs.

Medium and large freighters have had their upper limits for size increased, so this should help improve their space factor.

Originally fighters/troops were to be upgradeable, so most of the sizing was done with that in mind. It's kind of been neglected, but I'll end up doing something to make those first level units a bit more worthwhile.

There are no size limits to Warp Points. It was never implemented.

DUCs are a low tech early weapon, they shouldn't be comparable to more advanced energy weapons. However, they are extremely cheap and rushing their research while other players research Physics level 2, can succeed as an early game tactic. Meson Blasters enjoy some good damage ratios when used with an appropriate short range strategy. They're smaller and allow more flexible small ship designs. They also have a 10kT PD version, which is very handy as well.

The upgrades for sensors have to worthwhile per level - anything less than 5% per level is useless. Keep in mind ECM advances at 4% per level, so assuming most players research these areas at about the same rate, you're only really seeing a few percentage points improvement anyway. Also note, that due to additive to-hit modifiers, 10% Combat Sensors are not twice as effective as 5% sensors.

Boarding components are 20kT and are generally defeated by an equivalent size of crew quarters... so I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Saber Cherry]

Thanks for reading and replying to my post!



Captain Kwok said:
Lots of little items to respond to.

The first item is actually an SE5 display issue.

There were no settings at the time v1.09 was created that could alter the trade percentages. That will be changing with the next SE:V patch. You're high trade income in that game is really misleading how much you'll need to build resource facilities otherwise.



Well... I mean... my high trade income is important, and of course, too high. But I don't understand why resource extractor output was nearly tripled from SE:IV, too. The upkeep on units and facilities merit a higher extractor output... but not 2000, IMO. Even without any trade, resource extraction is just so grossly high that my empire's tiny economic base could support 50% of my total usage... with only 15% of my colonies doing any extraction, only 1 of them breathable.


You'll want carriers to move fighters to non-colony systems.



Freighters do better. They're cheaper, hold more (using cargo bays instead of fighter bays), have lower maintenance, and can unload unlimited fighters in space in one turn with a single fighter bay... which is better then sending them out in flights from a carrier. Once you get through a wormhole (assuming the other end is safe), a carrier becomes a liability, to some extent. If fighters were slow in map movement, carriers would make much more sense, though I admit this is personal taste.


Rocket Pods look pretty good, but they do use ordnance and they have a low fire rate. Their overall damage ratios are similar to most other small weapons.


But rocket pod damage is frontloaded, and you don't need the fighters to survive after the initial salvo to fire a second, anyway, so reload rate and ordinance are not really all that important. Can a fighter really live long enough to run out of ordinance? If he did, that would be after 10 shots, or 500 damage PER POD, even without an ordinance module! And more importantly... Emissive Armor can render a ship immune to normal fighter weapons, but not rocket pods. They get through point defense and emissive armor.

After many simulations, I was shocked to discover that I could not build anti-ship fighters with armor, rocket pods, sensors, and ECM that could beat my anti-fighter frigate with APBs, point-defense, sensors, ECM, and emissive armor, at equivalent costs. So perhaps I am wrong. But, on the other hand, small rocket pods seem so much better than an equivalent tonnage of capital ship missiles that it is hard for me to feel like they are both balanced relative to each other.


I've added more cost to Colony Components for v1.10.


Good!



Don't neglect that hulls can be upgraded, and those iffy level 1 350kT destroyers can easily be made into 400kT destroyers with a bit of research, which are also able to use large ship mounts.



I realize that, but... it is very disappointing to discover that destroyers 1 and 2 are strictly inferior to the frigate 3 that you will already have when you get destroyers. There's no reason for destroyers 1 and 2 to exist, as long as frigates are so big (and faster, cheaper, more fuel-efficient, and more evasive).

Essentially... I don't think you should have to max out a ship type's technology for it to show any improvement over the old ship type. In that case, it is better to research strictly improving technologies - namely, anything else. Even destroyer 3 is only questionably better than frigate 3, given the disadvantages in speed, fuel efficiency, cost, and evasion you pay for a mere 60kT of extra usable space. That is to say, it is NOT better, unless you have pretty good large ship mount technology, too.



The remainder of the ship hulls are more intertwined, so it's usually a close equivalent when the next hull becomes available. There's also the addition of 5kT LS/CQ components in v1.10, that will help save space on some of the larger designs.



It is a close equivalent in usable space, but the new model is much more expensive, has lower evade, is slower, and uses more fuel. So... the shiny new technology is generally going to be a bad choice.



Medium and large freighters have had their upper limits for size increased, so this should help improve their space factor.



OK, good; I'll look forward to that. Though I rather think that the medium freighter would be happier with 8 engines / 80 points per move, rather than 10/100... which makes them strictly inferior to small freighters for the first however many levels are needed until/unless they ever reach 800kt.


There are no size limits to Warp Points. It was never implemented.


Well, warp points still SAY they have a size limit, so I never tried to push a larger ship through...


The upgrades for sensors have to worthwhile per level - anything less than 5% per level is useless. Keep in mind ECM advances at 4% per level, so assuming most players research these areas at about the same rate, you're only really seeing a few percentage points improvement anyway. Also note, that due to additive to-hit modifiers, 10% Combat Sensors are not twice as effective as 5% sensors.



Sorry, I was unclear. To rephrase: Like most of the things in your mod, I agree with your rate of advance for combat sensors. The problem I have, which is entirely subjective, is with basic sensors. I'd feel better if they started with a range of 5 and increased at 1 per level.


Boarding components are 20kT and are generally defeated by an equivalent size of crew quarters... so I don't think that's unreasonable.


No, not unreasonable at all. What I mean is, I would never research those components past the first level, because they increase so slowly, and the first level is already good enough to use for the rest of the game. This would be true unless they increase faster or start weaker.

[Spoo]

I agree with Saber Cherry regarding ship size. What's the point in making the first level(s) of a technology useless? Why not just make it cost more to research in the first place?

[Captain Kwok]

I agree that resources are too often in excess. I had originally planned to bring back the standard maintenance factors for v1.10, but I preferred keeping them at their current values and opted to cut resource production across the board. You’ll find it more agreeable.

I’ve debated about adjusting the Frigate/Destroyer transition so that Medium Light Hulls become available at level 2 of Light Hulls – which would be more consistent with other hull transitions. This would help make the first level of Destroyers more useful.

The default supply capacity and usage is proportional to the number of engines, so for example, a Medium Freighter does not have half the range of a Small Freighter.

Medium Freighters can also mount Space Yards at level 1 (much more easily in v1.10 since they are 300kT) which is a good motivational factor for using them.

Fighters are already slower than any ship on the system map, so they're not generally an offensive weapon. Using fighters often for system movement also drains their supplies quite quickly and without some place to resupply them, they quickly become useless.

[Ed Kolis]

Re: frigate/destroyer transition - I think moving medium-light hulls to level 2 of light hulls would be a good idea.

Re: boarding components - yes, exactly what SaberCherry said - they are either too strong starting out or too weak at the top level, so it's not really worth researching additional levels past the first!

Re: trade - isn't there something in the data files (TreatyElements.txt?) that lets you restrict the trade percentages available via a treaty across the board?

Re: sensors - actually I think the first few levels of sensors are too much of a no-brainer, given the ranges of the basic sensor component! Level 1 is a wimpy 3 hexes, but level 2 gives you another 2 hexes bringing you up to 5, and level 3 gives you another 2 hexes bringing you up to 7! So unless you research level 3 sensors early on, you are going to be spending a LOT of time surveying systems and you won't be able to see enemies that can easily see you... So how about starting basic sensors at range 4 or 5 and increasing them by 1 per level across the board?

[Captain Kwok]

This TreatyElements.txt file is a figment of your imagination. However, there are adjustable trade values added to settings.txt for the next patch.

I'm not sure why all the fuss with Boarding Parties. They double in their ability from low to max tech, as most items in the mod do. It's a good idea to research them if because you're Boarding Ships will need more support components such as Shield Depleters etc. as the game progresses. Not to mention, you get Security Stations with the same research as well.

I don't see the fuss with sensors. Big deal if it's an important tech to research at the beginning.

[Ed Kolis]

LOL, you're right about the treaty elements! I must have been thinking about victory conditions or something http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Oh, the boarding parties do double? I guess they're reasonable then - I thought they only went up to level 5 with 300 marines apiece.

The sensor issue I think is a balance thing - if the first few levels of sensors are Really Really Important and anyone who fails to know the secret that they have to research them is going to fall significantly behind, then it seems the sensor tech is unbalanced, much like Meson Blasters were in stock - Meson Blasters were the uber weapon and if you didn't know that they were and didn't research them, you fell significantly behind. (OK, it's not all THAT serious, given that it's only 2 levels of a tech, not an entire tech with 100 levels or whatever, so you can't fall TOO far behind - but it just seems unbalanced to me!) So it's a minor balance thing, but a balance thing nonetheless.

[Kana]

Saber Cherry said:
I realize that, but... it is very disappointing to discover that destroyers 1 and 2 are strictly inferior to the frigate 3 that you will already have when you get destroyers. There's no reason for destroyers 1 and 2 to exist, as long as frigates are so big (and faster, cheaper, more fuel-efficient, and more evasive).

Essentially... I don't think you should have to max out a ship type's technology for it to show any improvement over the old ship type. In that case, it is better to research strictly improving technologies - namely, anything else. Even destroyer 3 is only questionably better than frigate 3, given the disadvantages in speed, fuel efficiency, cost, and evasion you pay for a mere 60kT of extra usable space. That is to say, it is NOT better, unless you have pretty good large ship mount technology, too.




I've seen the talk over at the Official forum as well on the subject of uber frigates and how the new destroyers get fraged by them. After reading this it just came to me what is wrong. If the frigate is getting bigger, why is it retaining its offensive/defensive values? I know certain people say that this is because of minaturization, and automation. Its not that the frigate is getting any bigger.

I would rather see it as it is getting bigger, or at least heavier or something. So that the time a frigate is the same size as a destroyer, then they are either equal, or that the frigate is only slightly better than the destroyer. If you want the advantage of automation or miniturization, then mod that in with components or mounts.

[Captain Kwok]

Except it's a lot more obvious. The player will be like, "Man, my sensor range is quite small", and will look to see how he can make it better. The effectiveness of a weapon compared to another is less obvious.

[Captain Kwok]

None of the ship sizes overlap in the Balance Mod as they do in stock. The larger size of the ship does come into play for acceleration and turning, so a 250kT Frigate will be a bit more nimbler than a 300kT one.

[Romulus68]

After many simulations, I was shocked to discover that I could not build anti-ship fighters with armor, rocket pods, sensors, and ECM that could beat my anti-fighter frigate with APBs, point-defense, sensors, ECM, and emissive armor, at equivalent costs. So perhaps I am wrong. But, on the other hand, small rocket pods seem so much better than an equivalent tonnage of capital ship missiles that it is hard for me to feel like they are both balanced relative to each other.



1. Change the Rocket Pods fighters to Max range strategy and they will perform better against ships. That helps them stay outside Point Defense ranges.

2. Drop armor on Fighter and squeeze shields on it.

3. Bomber load out: Rocket Pod, Shields, Cockpit, Life, Engines.

Try that at Max range against your Anti-Fighter Frigates.

[Raapys]

Any ETA on BM update, Kwok?

[Captain Kwok]

I should be able to post the update tonight.

[Romulus68]

Pleeeaaassssseeeeee make a 1.09a, so MANY of us can continue our PBW games that are MANY turns into the game!

Yes, I'm begging. :-)

[Captain Kwok]

Ugh, there's a few minor AI issues to resolve before I can post v1.10. It'll probably push until Saturday night.

---

I will do something for v1.09, but probably not until the next weekend.

[Q]

I feared it might be not so easy. If you have time, could you post the changes you need to adapt the AI scripts?

[Captain Kwok]

It's not really any problems with the v1.58 patch, but more with some AI designs missing weapons or being far too friendly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[javaslinger]

Kwok,

I take it you have no real desire to release a 1.09a for 1.58 compatibility? Would make like easier for us on PBW.

Thanks,

Javaslinger

[Captain Kwok]

I didn't say that. I said I could do it for next weekend.

[Q]

Wouldn't the AI files of BM 1.10 work with BM 1.09?
The breaking of savegames is usually due to changes in the data files not the AI files.

[Captain Kwok]

The v1.10 scripts wouldn't be easily compatible with v1.09 of the mod because they have been modified for the revised fighter sizes and many of the changes to components and the research tree.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

The next version of the Balance Mod is finally available. There's been a ton of fixes/revisions to both the data files and AI. Note that v1.10 is not save game compatible with previous Balance Mod versions and it requires the latest version of SE:V to run.

Download it here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

Version 1.10 (14 October 2007)
--------------------------------

01. Fixed - Error in ShipExperience.txt was preventing experience bonuses from being applied
02. Fixed - Error in fleet experience points required for elite status
03. Changed - Increased starting maintenance for ships to 25%
04. Changed - Reduced Shield Regenerators to 6 levels
05. Changed - Decreased ability amount for Shield Regenerators
06. Note - Shield Regenerators are stackable
07. Changed - Split Armor into 5kT and 10kT Light and Heavy versions
08. Added - Pictures for Heavy Armor
09. Changed - Increased Emissive Armor to 16 levels
10. Changed - Decreased Small Emissive Armor to 3 levels
11. Changed - Life Support and Crew Quarters reduced to 5kT and increased to 6 levels
12. Changed - Increased Vehicle Systems to 6 levels
13. Changed - Seeker weapons can now be placed on Outer or Inner hull slots
14. Added - Pictures for 5kT Supply Storage and 5kT Ordnance Storage components
15. Changed - Reduced Intel defense modifier in settings.txt
16. Changed - Increased Supply and Ordnance storage for planets
17. Changed - Reduced the ordnance supplied by Emergency Reordnance Pods
18. Changed - Drone Launchers now count towards Carrier requirements
19. Changed - Small Rocket Pods can now be placed on troops
20. Added - Randomized the amounts for a stellar object's abilities
21. Changed - Removed Green Stars
22. Changed - Reduced size of fighters and decreased their required engine amounts
23. Changed - Increased maximum size of Medium Freighter hulls to 800kT
24. Changed - Increased maximum size of Large Freighter hulls to 1200kT
25. Changed - Increased costs for Computer Core components
26. Changed - Increased size of Drone Computer Core to 20kT
27. Added - Small Ripper Beam
28. Added - Pictures for Small Ripper Beam
29. Changed - Reduced Small Incinerator Beam to 3 levels
30. Changed - Reduced Time Distortion Burst to 20kT and Small Time Distortion Burst to 2kT
31. Changed - Space Yard component reduced to 300kT size
32. Changed - Increased storage amounts for resource storage facilities
33. Changed - Reduced Storage tech area to 11 levels and increased its cost
34. Changed - Reduced Medical Treatment tech area to 5 levels and increased its cost
35. Changed - Reduced Medical Lab facility to 5 levels
36. Changed - Lots of minor changes to facility costs and structure amounts
37. Changed - Genetic Recoding Labs now has a ground combat modifier ability for the system
38. Changed - Reduced Temporal Vacation Service facility to 5 levels
39. Changed - Reduced Urban Pacification Center facility to 5 levels
40. Changed - Reduced Psychic Scanner to 11 levels
41. Changed - Reduced Fate Shrine to 5 levels
42. Changed - Reduced Nature Shrine to 5 levels
43. Changed - Reduced Time Shrine to 5 levels
44. Changed - Re-organized Religious Technology facility availability
45. Changed - Interspersed Climate Control Facility and Value Improvement Plant levels in Planet Utilization tech area
46. Changed - "Skip Armor" damage type now has 95% penetration versus armor
47. Changed - "Only" damage types now have 100% penetration versus armor
48. Changed - Most damage types do only 50% of their normal damage amount to facilities
49. Changed - Reduced Bombardment Weapons to 11 levels
50. Changed - Increased damage amount for Planetary Napalm
51. Changed - Reduced the positive effect of troops on population happiness
52. Changed - Reduced the happiness effect from the Naturally Happy and Naturally Depressed traits
53. Fixed - A number of errors in defense penalties for ships and space stations
54. Fixed - Error in tech requirements for Organic and Crystalline Carriers
55. Changed - Increased the map area for ground combat
56. Added - Added additional buildings for ground combat
57. Added - AI Minister for Survey Ships
58. Added - AI Minister for Patrol Ships
59. Added - AI Minister for Cloaking
60. Added - New AI design types
61. Fixed - Combat designs for some races would be created without weapons
62. Fixed - AIs were not longer immediately hostile to human players in AI team mode
63. Fixed - AI ships and fleets were not resupplying as often as required*
64. Fixed - Error in Medical Ship orders
65. Fixed - Ships were not always sent to join the most appropriate fleet
66. Fixed - Error in AI selection of systems to attack
67. Fixed - The AI was never giving up, never surrending*
68. Added - AI will use Space Yard Ships to construct remote defense bases
69. Added - AI will break their treaties with the Mega Evil player
70. Changed - AI will now use Carriers for Drone Carrier design type
71. Changed - AI will use cloaking devices
72. Changed - AI's facility selection is now more responsive to its needs
73. Changed - Improved the AI's vehicle purchasing routine
74. Changed - Improved the AI's handling of resources
75. Fixed - AI wasn't using Fighter or Drone Groups for attacks
76. Added - AI will drop troops on rioting colonies
77. Added - AI will send their fleets for training
78. Fixed - Error in AI scrapping routine for ships
79. Fixed - AI Minister for Population Transports was not working correctly
80. Changed - Improved AI's use of scout ships for exploration and surveying
81. Changed - AI will now use Patrol Ships for patrol missions only
82. Changed - AI players will focus on sabotage operations only
83. Fixed - Error in Intelligence script that allowed projects to succeed more than they should*
84. Fixed - Error in destroy resources intel project that allowed negative values
85. Changed - Increased emphasis on defense point contribution to leaky intel success rate calculation
86. Fixed - Sometimes the AI would get stuck trying to research a tech area level that did not exist
87. Changed - Made improvements to the AI's research pathing
88. Changed - Improved the AI's starting tech selection
89. Changed - Revised each AI Empire's weapon and design type usage
90. Added - General improvements to AI diplomacy
91. Changed - A weaker AI at war will consider making peace
92. Pending - AI design improvements
93. Pending - Improvements to AI setup scripts
94. Added - Fixes for stellar events
95. Updated - AI Scripts

[Ironmanbc]

just a few fixs huh http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[AstralWanderer]

Thank'ee Capn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

*stops compulsively hitting Reload on the mod download page*

[Q]

Thank you very much Kwok for these "few" (95!!) fixes.

The AI files may not be optimal for BM 1.09 but a quick trial showed that at least they work, which is 100x better than the current situation. Therefore until you release the 1.09a AI version and the original scripts I will use the 1.10 AI files in my games.

[Kamog]

Thank you, Captain Kwok. I very much appreciate, and I'm grateful for, all the work you are doing with the Balance Mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I don't play stock SEV; I only play Balance Mod.

[fabio80mi]

Thank you!

[Kamog]

When you place an emergency propulsion on a ship design, a warning appears that you can only have one emergency energy component on the vehicle, even if it's the only one on the ship.

Can you please look at this? Thanks!

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings...

There was a small problem with one of the default AI files and so you should re-download the mod to fix:

http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

---

I'll check out the emergency propulsion component.

[Saber Cherry]

Thanks for the new version! I've been looking forward to the AI improvements. Hopefully they will attack me and build research labs now. Incidentally, and I don't know whether you addressed this or not, but in 1.09 the AI would refuse any gift I offered them. Sometimes they would even request an economic loan or military aid, but if I replied with an appropriate gift of resources or ships, they would reject it.

I don't know if you have to pay for bandwidth, or have bandwidth limits, but after unzipping the mod and AI files together, I was able to recompress the entire 1.10+ folder down to 3.32 MB using 7-zip (in the 7z format)... FYI.


Edit. Small text bug:


Ability 3 Type := Description Only
Ability 3 Description := Small Fighters can only have a maximum of 4 engines.

(...)

Requirement 4 Description := Small Fighters can only have a maximum of 2 engines.
Requirement 4 Formula := Get_Design_Ability_Component_Count("Movement Standard") &lt;= 2

[Ironmanbc]

I don't have 7-zip, I use WINRAR.

[AstralWanderer]

Ironmanbc said:
I don't have 7-zip, I use WINRAR.

IZArc (http://www.izarc.org/), TugZip (http://www.tugzip.com/) and ZipGenius (http://www.zipgenius.it/eng/index.php) can handle Rar, 7-Zip, Zip, Ace and numerous other formats. They are all free so it makes good sense to use the most efficient compression option available.

[fdlu]

Captain Kwok said:
Greetings!

The next version of the Balance Mod is finally available. There's been a ton of fixes/revisions to both the data files and AI. Note that v1.10 is not save game compatible with previous Balance Mod versions and it requires the latest version of SE:V to run.

Download it here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

Version 1.10 (14 October 2007)
--------------------------------
.
.
23. Changed - Increased maximum size of Medium Freighter hulls to 800kT
24. Changed - Increased maximum size of Large Freighter hulls to 1200kT
.
.





Possible bug ?

Just fired up a game to see the new "goodies" (light/heavy armor etc.) with all tech points enabled.

Noticed in ship sizes that the freighters (at lvl 3) were at 400 / 700 / 1000 kt for small/medium/large.

[Arralen]

AstralWanderer said:
Ironmanbc said:
I don't have 7-zip, I use WINRAR.
IZArc, TugZip and ZipGenius can handle *numerous* formats. They are all free so it makes good sense to use the most efficient compression option available.


Why use a poor substitute to the real thing - especially if it's free and opensource anyway?
http://www.7-zip.org/


Btw., Kwok, thanks for your mod - it makes an abysmal game usuable, what is quite a feat !!

[Saber Cherry]

Arralen said:
Btw., Kwok, thanks for your mod - it makes an abysmal game usuable, what is quite a feat !!





Agreed.



Another bug (?) in Settings.txt:



//---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minimum Number Of Systems Small Quadrant := 20
Maximum Number Of Systems Small Quadrant := 50
Minimum Number Of Systems Medium Quadrant := 50
Maximum Number Of Systems Medium Quadrant := 100
Minimum Number Of Systems Large Quadrant := 100
Maximum Number Of Systems Large Quadrant := 150
//---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minimum Number Of Systems Small Quadrant := 10
Maximum Number Of Systems Small Quadrant := 20
Minimum Number Of Systems Medium Quadrant := 30
Maximum Number Of Systems Medium Quadrant := 60
Minimum Number Of Systems Large Quadrant := 60
Maximum Number Of Systems Large Quadrant := 100
//---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I assume the second copy will overwrite the first? Not sure which set is intended, but personally, I like the lower numbers better.

[AstralWanderer]

Arralen said:
Why use a poor substitute to the real thing - especially if it's free and opensource anyway?

Because the "real thing" doesn't handle as many filetypes (.ace being the main omission), lacks shell integration options and uses a non-standard, IMHO revolting (pink!) colour in highlighting selected items.

Aside from that, it's quite OK. I prefer IZArc though - ZipGenius has acute featuritis while TugZip (a close second) has a rather awkward interface.

This is going OT though... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Ironmanbc]

there is alot of compression programs out there, I stick to ones that are most common http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[se5a]

people use .ace?

I've found that the most used is .zip, after that it's rar.
Ive rarely if ever seen anything else used, however 7zip is very popular due to the open source thing, it also doesnt have all the crap nag/addware that some of the other *free* ones have.

[Captain Kwok]

How about we stick to discussion about the mod and how many bugs it has in v1.10?

[Q]

Kwok in the AI minister file you have the number of minister = 55 but there are 56 ministers listed.

[DrewBlack]

hI

Excellatn work as ususal, one question how long before the Ai is updated to 1.10?? days/weeks??

Thanks
Drew

[Arralen]

AI/Autodesign puts "Crew Quarters" and "Live Support" into O, not I, even if there's plenty of room in I left.
Colonizer get send and park over suitable worlds forever, if the AI is not allowed to build in that system because of a treaty (maybe hardcoded).
Colonizers (AI) should not carry ordnance storage.
Sometimes "autodesign" does not work (haven't noted down when it happened exactly, most likely was an "Explorer" design early in the game.

[Fyron]

DrewBlack said:Excellatn work as ususal, one question how long before the Ai is updated to 1.10??

About -2 days? 1.10 includes updated AI.

[Saber Cherry]

Maybe bugs:

AI still likes to request aid from me often, but rejects aid when I offer it. I don't really think the AI should ever reject a gift of resources...

An AI empire sent some destroyers to hammer my undefended colonies. The destroyers were armed with level 3 Meson Blasters. And after shooting long enough to run out of supplies, they still never killed a single population. This was on 2 different planets. I guess it is due to the 50% ground damage multiplier and high population structure, but it seems really wierd, and cripples the AI's ability to wage war.

Trade Treaty % is messed up (probably the game engine). In the text file, you seem to have set it to max at 12%, in 2% increments. In the game, it is still displayed as 5% increments up to 30%, in the treaty setup screen. However, I have 4 trade treaties, and for each of them I selected 30% max. Two max at 12%, one maxxed at 17%, and one at 27%. It's kind of baffling...


More like anomalies:

Small Ordinance Vat and Large Ordinance Vat are proportionately different in terms of storage generation. Maybe this is intentional, but I would have expected one to be exactly 4x of the other.

Weapon Platform and Satellite Cores both store twice as much supply per kT as supply storage.

Mine Layer gains a level every tech level, while Fighter Bay, Drone Launcher, and Sat Bay all gain a level every 2 tech levels. This means mine layers can quickly pass up cargo bays in storage/kT, which is strange.

Fighter Engines got twice as good (since fighters need half as many points per move now) but afterburners stayed the same. So now, afterburners are really pathetic. Perhaps 1 kT size would be better?

Because Fighter Rocket Pods can now target... everything, they are utterly devastating in fighter battles. In 1.09, I was using rocket pods for anti-ship fighters and APBs for anti-fighter fighters. But if a rocket fighter can kill a beam fighter so fast that they each only shoot each other once, then rocket fighters become the best in all situations, rendering other weapons irrelevant. Ordinance is a non-issue, since rocket pods already contain enough for 500 damage, and fighters generally die or win before using it all.

[Captain Kwok]

Arralen said:
AI/Autodesign puts "Crew Quarters" and "Live Support" into O, not I, even if there's plenty of room in I left.
Colonizer get send and park over suitable worlds forever, if the AI is not allowed to build in that system because of a treaty (maybe hardcoded).
Colonizers (AI) should not carry ordnance storage.
Sometimes "autodesign" does not work (haven't noted down when it happened exactly, most likely was an "Explorer" design early in the game.




There's no way to tell how many inner versus outer slots remain on a design, so sometimes LS or CQ are placed on the outer slots to

The colonizers will get new orders. It might take a turn or two until another colonizable planet crops up though.

Colonizers carry ordnance storage so that the colonies they found have some ordnance.

[thebigsilly]

Yes, I think I agree in some ways with the criticism of Fighter "Rocket Pods"! Perhaps you could experiment with a much lower ordnance storage for them (say, each pod weapon item contains one or two shots, and ordnance storages must be added for more than that), and see how that balances?

One or two shots (default) would also be more in keeping with the kind of ammo amounts normally seen in sci-fi of this nature, which, in the case of fighters, seem to derive from modern jet combat craft and their Air-to-Air missiles, which function by external hardpoints and so leave relatively little room for "extra shots."


I do not know if this is a function of the mod's AI/strategy settings, but after my ships that are defending a warp point have killed their target (having come through the warp-point), regardless of their levels of supplies, ordnance, or level of damage, they all immediately face away from the warp point and begin flying away from it, towards the "retreat" area of the screen. I have to select them all very fast and tell them to stay put, or else they would be too far spaced away to blast what comes through the warp-point next!

[maccca41]

Captain Kwok,
A quick question. Will all the shipsets that are available at the moment work with 1.58 and 1.10 / 1.11 if the AI scripts ae changed to either Defensive, Moderate or Aggressive as per your instructions on your website. I am asking this because a few people on the SEV universe website have reported problems and I am a bit confused.
Many thanks for all the hard work and dedication with this mod.
Thanks in advance.

[Dan_]

Howdy, Just wondering if/when we can expect a BM1.09 - SEV1.58 version we can use to continue our pbw game?

A couple or the players got automatically updated by steam and it's been on hold since. If it's going to be a while (or never) we can try going back to the old version. Thanks.

[Captain Kwok]

I'd like to have a small v1.09 patch around the end of the weekend.

[Romulus68]

Captain Kwok said:
I'd like to have a small v1.09 patch around the end of the weekend.



Thank you for the time and help.

[Baron Munchausen]

Arralen said:
AI/Autodesign puts "Crew Quarters" and "Live Support" into O, not I, even if there's plenty of room in I left.
Colonizer get send and park over suitable worlds forever, if the AI is not allowed to build in that system because of a treaty (maybe hardcoded).
Colonizers (AI) should not carry ordnance storage.
Sometimes "autodesign" does not work (haven't noted down when it happened exactly, most likely was an "Explorer" design early in the game.




The AI should be smart enough to check for colonizers 'in route' when a new treaty is agreed and re-route anything that will be disallowed when it arrives. Surely this part of the AI is not 'hard' coded!

And actually, colonizers should have ordnance storage. The best early defense a colony can have is a missile-armed weapon platform -- which needs ordnance to operate! So, until the first supply depot is built in the system, where does ordnance come from? It has to already be present. Meaning, the colonizer has to bring it. A really good AI would build the weapon platform at the point of origin and load it into the colonizer but I suppose that's very complicated to work out. Putting a weapon platform as the first thing a new colony builds would be nearly as good, though.

[Captain Kwok]

The problem is that you can't read the orders of a ship, so there's no way to retrieve the id of the planet the ship is heading to.

[Baron Munchausen]

Yargh! But the game can show you where the ships are going... A definite omission in the scripting functions. And here I thought SE 5 was finally close to 'done' with this patch!

[HercMighty]

Kamog said:
When you place an emergency propulsion on a ship design, a warning appears that you can only have one emergency energy component on the vehicle, even if it's the only one on the ship.

Can you please look at this? Thanks!



Captain Kwok:

Were you able to look at this? I see the same thing.

Thanks

[Dan_]

Yeah, Thanks Captain Kwok, making the components smaller like the life support is heaps better. Light organic armor would be good if the effect can be made that small.

I haven't tried the rocket pods, but did notice the afterburners which seemed rather useless for their space and cost. Perhaps they have more of an effect than the description - I didn't try em, or maybe it's just the lvl1 ones.

It seems the facility space is still not being increased for races with 'Advanced Storage Techniques' racial trait. I thought I read that this was fixed in 1.58.

One thing that always annoys me is how you are always forced to use the latest components and hulls. There are several reasons to use the old ones, like the newer ones are more expensive, or larger than you want them to be, or less value/cost like shields. Until SEV has the functionality to select old components and hull, I wonder if it would be worth setting up the balance mod so old components and hulls were always available. I would prefer this, but I don't know about other players or how much work it would be. I've suggested it to Malfador, but it hasn't been done yet that I know of.

How about others people here - would you prefer to have the full list of old components and hulls, or the way it is where you can only use the most recent?

[Kamog]

Dan_ said:
How about others people here - would you prefer to have the full list of old components and hulls, or the way it is where you can only use the most recent?



Well, it would be nice to be able to use older components in some ship designs because sometimes I build ships with the intention to trade them with another empire, and I don't want to give away my latest technology.

[Captain Kwok]

There's no easy way I know of providing the old levels. It'd be up to MM to add in this feature.

---

The Balance Mod never did have the expanded facility space with the advanced storage trait.

---

I've fixed all the one per components. You can fix it for your copy by just adding &gt;= 1 rather than = 0 to the restriction formula.

[Q]

I SE IV, where you were able to use older components, I very rarely used this. So for me it is not an important feature I miss in SE V.

[HercMighty]

Captain Kwok said:
I've fixed all the one per components. You can fix it for your copy by just adding &gt;= 1 rather than = 0 to the restriction formula.



What file is this setting in?

Thanks

[Ed Kolis]

Components.txt

[Dan_]

Captain Kwok, when you do the patch for BM1.09 to run on SEV1.58, could you please include the fix for the ground combat troop/pop problem (http://www.spaceempires.net/home/ftopicp-24254.html#24254)?
I tried this with with the BM1.09 files Heber_Magalhaes changed to work in SEV1.58 (attached) and there were no problems loading and running BM1.09 SEV1.44 games. I'm not sure if there is other changes in SEV1.58 like this which require alterations in the mod files. If there are not, we could just use this as the patch.
Thanks

[Tim_Ward]

Hol-y [censored] that is a lot of malitia.

[Captain Kwok]

I'm finishing up that v1.11 patch for tomorrow. Once that is released then I'll put together that v1.09 PBW patch.

[Dan_]

Ok, Thanks for the update.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

I've posted a patch for v1.09 of the Balance Mod that will allow it to be used with the v1.58 patch for SE:V. It's primarily intended for v1.09 PBW games, but it does have an AI update for those that wish to carry v1.09 Balance Mod saved games to the v1.58 SE:V patch. Note that you need v1.09 installed prior to applying the patch!!!

The v1.11 patch of the Balance Mod should be along in a few days. It features a number of bug fixes and tweaks for the current v1.10.

The v1.09 PBW Patch is here:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

Version 1.09 PBW (23 October 2007)
----------------------------------

1. Updated - Settings.txt to be compatible with SE:V v1.58
2. Changed - Updated component and facility restrictions for "Only One Allowed" items
3. Changed - Updated Happiness.txt to new format for SE:V v1.58
4. Changed - Increased Skip Armor damage type to 95% penetration versus armor
5. Changed - "Only" damage types now skip armor completely
6. Fixed - Miltia amounts
7. Fixed - Error in fleet experience elite level requirement
8. Fixed - Errors in defense penalties for a number of vehicles
9. Changed - Reduced ability amount for Emergency Reordnance Pod
10. Changed - Reduced ability amount for Shield Regenerators
11. Changed - Increased cost of Drone Computer Core
12. Fixed - Errors for Carrier tech area requirements
13. Changed - Increased amounts for resource storage facilities
14. Fixed - Error in combat speed for Drones
15. Fixed - Errors in tech area requirements for some vehicles
16. Updated - Intel and Events scripts
17. Updated - AI scripts to run with SE:V v1.58

[Q]

Thank you very much Kwok.
Now I should be able to continue my games at last.
Could you please post the AI source scripts for these 1.09 AI files too?
Thank you again.

[Captain Kwok]

The scripts are exactly the same as the previous v1.09 scripts, but with the 3 fixes required in the Script_AI_Politics file.

Replace the system function at lines 2118, 2324, and 3970 with the following:

2118, 2324: call Sys_Empire_Log_Get_Package_Selection_List(ENTITY_T YPE_EMPIRE, from_plr, ENTITY_TYPE_EMPIRE, sys_long_Player_ID, lst_sel_items, sel_item_type, TRUE, FALSE)

3970:
Sys_Empire_Log_Get_Package_Selection_List(ENTITY_T YPE_EMPIRE, to_plr, ENTITY_TYPE_EMPIRE, sys_long_Player_ID, lst_sel_items, item_type, TRUE, FALSE)

That should save you some time.

[Q]

Thank you Kwok. Indeed this is exactely what I needed.

[Q]

Tried it with the BM 1.09 Amonkrie script and still got these errors when I used the parser to compile the scripts:

Could not parse Script_AI_Politics.txt (line #2323): Did not recognize section "from_plr".
Could not parse Script_AI_Politics.txt (line #2323): Bad Call - Sys_Empire_Log_Get_Package_Selection_List(ENTITY_T YPE_EMPIRE, from_plr, ENTITY_TYPE_EMPIRE, sys_long_Player_ID, lst_sel_items, sel_item_type, TRUE, FALSE)
Could not parse Amonkrie_Main_Script.txt (line #239): Unmatched Forward Function for reply_to_general_request

[Captain Kwok]

Oops...

For 2324: call Sys_Empire_Log_Get_Package_Selection_List(ENTITY_T YPE_EMPIRE, sys_long_Player_ID, ENTITY_TYPE_EMPIRE, to_plr, lst_sel_items, sel_item_type, TRUE, FALSE)

[Q]

New try, new errors:

Could not parse Script_AI_Politics.txt (line #2323): Unrecognized word sys_empire_log_get_package_selection_list(entity_t ype_empire,
Could not parse Amonkrie_Main_Script.txt (line #239): Unmatched Forward Function for reply_to_general_request

Wouldn't it be possible you post the entire AI.Politics.txt file?

[Captain Kwok]

It looks like you're just missing the "call" prior to the function.

I would post the file, but I don't have it with me.

[Q]

Kwok that was it!
Now the parser could compile the files successfully.
Thank you very much.

[Captain Kwok]

Just running the final tests for v1.11 now. If all goes well, should be posting the update tomorrow morning. There's about 20 or so fixes and additions for the update, including a few nice AI tweaks.

[Tim_Ward]

Some AIs are still using mixed direct fire weapon/missle weapon designs for light cruisers. And above, presumably.

[Ed Kolis]

Say, TakAhLah and I are having trouble getting a PBW game started... it's an EOTU game between me and Gusset where TakAhLah is the host, and I can't seem to load the first turn. I tried reinstalling Balance Mod, and TakAhLah tried reinstalling SE5, reinstalling the Balance Mod, and creating a new GSU file (the one we originally used was for SE5 v1.44 and an equally old version of Balance Mod), but still no luck. The error I'm getting is that the data files don't match, and I can't continue the game. Have you run into this before, Kwok? I know in 1.44, we'd get that error all the time but at least we could bypass it - is SE5 just being to scrupulous about checking timestamps and stuff, or did we do something wrong?

[Captain Kwok]

You might not have the same version of 1.10, download it again.

[Arralen]

I had some strange AI behaviour with 1.10 - did you with the diplomacy files?

First AI to surrender to me was a minor nation around turn 80.
Wasn't that strange, though - they were at war with me and an even bigger AI on another front, I had already an outpost in their (home) system and shot down their last FF. To surrender was a logical decision, as the outcome was inevitable.

But now, on turn 102, the Jraener surrendered to me - but we weren't at war with each other, and never have been. I was rated 6th and they 7th (of 18 players). They had in fact more system colonized then me, and vastly more research, I suppose due to an advantageous research-sharing treaty with one of the 2 Ueber-AI (which had a very good start it seems).

While this is a interesting alternative to the usual 4X-game-genocide, I think they shouldn't surrender that easily. Treaties, yes, alliances, sure, but surrender should require at least a state of war with at least one player of better rating?! They were at war with 8th (my neighbour, whom I have trade treaty with), 11th and 14th rated player and AFAIK weren't in any danger!?

[Raapys]

Surrendering should also require a small number of colonies left, I'd say. Ideally there'd be some way of calculating how the war has been going, but I suspect that'd be a major task.

[Captain Kwok]

It was actually a script error. You could have asked any empire to surrender on a given turn and had a 50% chance that they would.

[Captain Kwok]

Greetings!

Version 1.11 of the Balance Mod is now available. It fixes a number of v1.10 bugs and makes a number of AI improvements. Perhaps the most important is the AI's consideration of other player's relations with their allies and enemies. It's save game compatible with v1.10.

Next up on the agenda is implementing the AI's alliance diplomacy scheme!

Download:
http://www.captainkwok.net/balancemod.php

History:

Version 1.11 (28 October 2007)
------------------------------

1. Fixed - Error in Miltia amounts
2. Fixed - Error in restrictions for "Only One Per" components
3. Fixed - The Units-Fighter minister was not being used
4. Fixed - Medium and Large Freighters were not advancing their hull sizes properly
5. Changed - Returned maximum trade amounts to default values
6. Changed - Trade will increased at a rate of 0.5% per turn
7. Fixed - Error in tech area requirements for Mine Layer component
8. Fixed - Sometimes ship weapons with low damage would not damage a planet
9. Changed - Increased the combat movement bonus for Afterburners
10. Changed - Removed fighters and troops from target types for Small Rocket Pods and Small Anti-Matter Torpedoes
11. Fixed - Some Stellar Ability Types were not being applied
12. Changed - Boarding attacker strength adjusted to 4:1 versus normal crew members
13. Changed - Reduced effect of research points on score
14. Changed - Tweaked population happiness effects and levels for anger states
15. Fixed - The Defensive minister style was not working correctly
16. Fixed - Sometimes the AI would design Small Drones without weapons
17. Changed - A weaker AI will seek peace
18. Added - The AI will consider other player's relations with their allies/enemies for anger
19. Changed - The AI won't try and build so many units when they are poor in resources
20. Fixed - Error that increased the Refining Colony value threshold when low on radioactives
21. Changed - Increased AI's overall demand for ships
22. Fixed - Error prevented AI from making changes to their treaties with other players
23. Fixed - The AI was sometimes breaking treaties when one didn't exist
24. Changed - The minister for population transports is now functioning much better
25. Changed - Improved the AI's distribution of remote unit defenses
26. Fixed - The AI was not colonizing when the game starting at maximum tech
27. Fixed - The AI was surrending more often then they should
28. Updated - AI Scripts

[Kamog]

Thank you very much, Captain Kwok. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Tim_Ward]

Nice work, as usual Kwok.

BTW, does anyone know if the Highest Percentage Score victory condition is working yet?

Also, speaking of alliances, what happens if you have every empire in the game under one alliance, does that count as a sole survivor victory? If not, a "Unify the quadrent" victory condition might be a nice addition, if Aaron could be persuaded...

[Q]

Thank you Kwok for your continuous excellent work and especially for posting the AI scripts too!

Just a quick feedback regarding unit designs at full tech:

- troops lack ecm and combat sensors.
- there is no recon sat design.
- attack drones have direct fire weapons but no combat sensor.

[Captain Kwok]

Did you notice if it was the Light Troop design without ECM/CS?

[Q]

Not only. The large "normal" troops too. And depending on the race the heavy troops also. I guess you included too many weapons and there is no space left for the ecm and combat sensor. The same seems to happen for attack bases which too lack ecm and combat sensors.

[XTimServoX]

sorry if this has been asked, but can i install this update or even the normal game patches while in the middle of a game, or will i have to start a new one? thanks.

[Captain Kwok]

Most of the time, you can safely patch your copy of SE:V and have no problems continuing with saved games.

Specifically for the Balance Mod, most versions are save game compatible with earlier versions of the mod. A version that is not compatible with earlier versions, will install to a new folder within the GameTypes folder. For example, Balance Mod versions 1.05 to 1.09 were all compatible and installed to the folder "Balance Mod v105+", while v1.10 was not and installed to the folder "Balance Mod v110+".

[Saber Cherry]

Thanks for 1.11; I was looking forward to it. Some comments and questions:

1) As far as I can tell, mine maintenance reduction is not working, but I can't figure out why. I put maintenance reduction on the warheads, too, but it didn't help. It works fine on bases. Is there a hard-coded 5% minimal maintenance limit somewhere, regardless of any reductions?

2) Small mines are strictly better than medium (and etc): They are cheaper per unit damage, being less than 66% the cost; they are harder to detect (at least, they are at mine tech 4 and 5); and they are harder to sweep per kT. Since mine layers have no per-turn limit, I see no reason to go beyond small 3.

3) (as of 1.10) The computer may research advanced mines and warheads; I'm not really sure. But even late in the game, around turn 200, it still seems to build hordes of mines using the small mine 1 body, which I can easily see with basic scanners. So... either it never researches mines, or never upgrades the design, but essentially uncloaked mines are not very devious.

4) (as of 1.10) Most AI planets had mines in orbit. However, I attacked several AI planets that had mines in cargo, but none in orbit. Maybe they were waiting for a cargo ship to pick them up, but it certainly made my attacks easier. They launched the mines in combat, of course, but they don't do anything - you can fly right over them and they don't trigger.

5) The 1.11 AI seems very happy to make treaties now. TOO happy. Every turn I get bombarded with messages requesting some changes in my existing treaties, which is really tedious and annoying. Could you perhaps make the AI a little more content, so that a given empire won't try to renegotiate treaties more often than ever 20 turns or so? With 10 treaties, I get 1-3 renegotiation requests every turn.

6) The AI is VERY happy to propose and accept tech-sharing treaties. Unfortunately, I thought that disabling the "Allow exchange of technology through gifts and trade" would prevent this. It doesn't. So... is there any way to turn off tech-sharing treaties? Unlike 1.10, games now end up with a big blob of friendly empires, all at the same super-high tech level, and the unfriendly empires stagnating with relatively low tech. The player can either join the big happy tech alliance and coast along with no reason to research anything (since it will just be shared), or refuse to sign tech-trading treaties and get hopelessly far behind, despite spending 5x the research of anyone else. Which unfortunately makes the game very unfun for me.

7) Small Cluster Bombs and Rocket Pods are similar or identical in damage, cost, size, reload time, supply/ordnance. But Rocket Pods have a wide variety of targets, and Cluster Bombs don't... moreover, Rocket Pods are 10% the size and 50% the damage of Capital Ship Missiles, while Cluster Bombs are 25% the size of Planetary Napalm and 10% of the damage. So, Cluster Bombs have seemingly no reason to exist with their current stats (and those of the rocket pods).

8) Were you still planning to increase the price of colony modules?



Overall the AI in 1.11 seems better, in terms of initial expansion, building ships, and building research facilities... but I have a slow, old computer and not too much free time so I'm not too far along in testing it yet.

[Captain Kwok]

1. There's no limit I know of.

2. There's actually a 100 per sector limit (although it's not enforced for the AI, and maybe not humans). With the limit, the larger mines deliver more oomph.

3. They are probably older mines. There's not really anything in place to tell the AI to scrap old mines, unlike the other unit types.

4. Mines used to detonate in combat. But yes, planets will sometimes horde mines for Mine Layers to pick up.

5. It's actually set to a 1-in-15 chance to make changes to a treaty.

6. The tech option is not disabled by that setting, so there's not much that can be done. For most AIs, if there's not really to be angry, they don't get angry.

7. Cluster Bombs were supposed to get a boost last version as Planetary Napalm did (since damage versus facilities for damage types was cut to 50%) but I forget.

8. Not really. You can always make that change yourself if you want.

[Q]

Regarding mines and sats: The AI launches them around colonies which is good. However there seems to be no distinction between colonies in front systems and colonies that are far away from any enemies and therefore sats and mines are not useful in these places.

[Captain Kwok]

It's easier to be prepared than to try and prepare when an enemy starts attacking - at least for the AI. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Saber Cherry]

Captain Kwok said:
1. There's no limit I know of.




So... since mine hulls declare a 50% maintenance reduction, but it actually does not work... would you mind passing that bug along to MM?


2. There's actually a 100 per sector limit (although it's not enforced for the AI, and maybe not humans). With the limit, the larger mines deliver more oomph.



OK, that makes sense. But of course, it is an entirely artificial and unrealistic limitation. Personally, I use medium mines to conserve processing power, but against a human opponent, I wouldn't.


3. They are probably older mines. There's not really anything in place to tell the AI to scrap old mines, unlike the other unit types.



Hmmm... let me rephrase that. All AIs were still ACTIVELY LAYING Small Mine 1 - class mines at turn 200. So I strongly suspect they were still building them. Personally... I never use Small Mine 1 technology, period, since they can become somewhat irrelevant so easily, and the next level is so cheap and so much more resistant to basic sensor tech advance.


5. It's actually set to a 1-in-15 chance to make changes to a treaty.


I hate to ask for individual attention, but would you please be so kind as to either tell me or point me to a link where I can learn where this number is located?



Q said:
Regarding mines and sats: The AI launches them around colonies which is good. However there seems to be no distinction between colonies in front systems and colonies that are far away from any enemies and therefore sats and mines are not useful in these places.



I have to differ. I launch defensive mines and satellites in ALL systems. The computer should, too - not just because it is easier to code, but because of timing... for example, a fleet with 15 movement can easily attack a major planet from two systems away, with only 1 or two turns warning. Leaving that planet undefended would be criminal negligence. Furthermore, stealth is always a possibility... and if only the borders are defended, it allows the destruction of every interior system, uncontested. Not to mention warp-point openers. A strong border defense strategy are useful ONLY for warp points, not planets, and mainly before warp point openers appear. Generally, I promote a strategy of planetary static defense proportional to planet value, regardless of location... and if the computer does not follow such a strategy, I will exploit its folly.

[Captain Kwok]

I check the maintenance on mines in a couple of my games and it looks roughly like the 2.5% I would expect.

The mines could be leftover ones in storage as well. Although I know that warhead/mine research after the first level lags a bit, depending on the overall situation.

The 100 mines limit is more of a game play thing, nothing would be worse than a player dropping thousands of mines at a location.

You'd have to edit Script_AI_Politics (line 2858) and re-compile the script files. The source files are available at my website.

Wiki reference for scripting:
http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.php/AI_and_Script_Editing_%28SEV%29

[MasterChiToes]

Is it normal for every last AI to cancel their treaties with you on the SAME turn?

Oh, for an AI that actually remembers a player has been an ally since the beginning of the game, and doesn't turn on the player for prospering.

[Arralen]

Saber Cherry said:
5) The 1.11 AI seems very happy to make treaties now. TOO happy. Every turn I get bombarded with messages requesting some changes in my existing treaties, which is really tedious and annoying. Could you perhaps make the AI a little more content, so that a given empire won't try to renegotiate treaties more often than ever 20 turns or so? With 10 treaties, I get 1-3 renegotiation requests every turn.

6) The AI is VERY happy to propose and accept tech-sharing treaties.


I second this.
The AI is way too happy to get everyone into a big intersettling-and-common-research treaty. Or maybe relations get "amiable" too easily, dunno. However, it doesn't make sense if I have shared system view of all systems in a large galaxy on turn 48 just because I didn't refuse that treaty with one AI accidently ...

All in all, though, I find the mod very enjoyable and quite an improvent over the base game. Thanks.

[Captain Kwok]

MasterChiToes said:
Is it normal for every last AI to cancel their treaties with you on the SAME turn?


Sounds like you triggered the mega evil settings.

[MasterChiToes]

Is there a way to mod-out the mega evil settings?

[Kamog]

There is a line in settings.txt:

AI Uses Mega Evil Empire := True

[Q]

The problem IMO with the AI launching sats and mines from all colonies is the maximum number of units in space. The AI may very well reach this limit and then be unable to launch any units just in places where it would be needed most. Of course 2 or 3 systems away from the enemy defensive units around colonies make sense, but 10 systems away on the other side of the map is not effective. You still can have some weapon platforms as defense against some ships that may be translocated by a random event. Stealth ship however should never be able to get to your core systems: that is the job for minefields on warp points to prevent.

[Tim_Ward]

Arralen said:
[quote]
Saber Cherry said:
5) The 1.11 AI seems very happy to make treaties now. TOO happy. Every turn I get bombarded with messages requesting some changes in my existing treaties, which is really tedious and annoying. Could you perhaps make the AI a little more content, so that a given empire won't try to renegotiate treaties more often than ever 20 turns or so? With 10 treaties, I get 1-3 renegotiation requests every turn.



I'm very happy with the diplomacy AI. Ideally, the AI's wouldn't propose such comprehensive treaties so soon, but apart from that there's a range of personalities which seem to be taking into account the power of your empire and your relations with the rest of the galaxy in the way they interact with you, leading to a decent mix of allies and enemies (provided you get the right empires in your game).

[Captain Kwok]

The AIs are actually sorted into 4 personality groups for random selection, but it doesn't look like the values (random player personality grous) in settings.txt are being used.

[Q]

Kwok do you know why no recon sat design is created?
In the script everything seems there for this design.

[Captain Kwok]

There was a small error in the routine that affected Recon Satellites and Medical Ships. Both are working now.

In Script_AI_DesignCreation, If you replace:

Line 2505: set comp_id := Sys_Get_Best_Component_With_Ability(sys_long_Playe r_ID, comp_abil)

with...

if (comp_name &lt;&gt; "") then
set comp_id := Sys_Get_Component_With_Name(sys_long_Player_ID, comp_name)
else
set comp_id := Sys_Get_Best_Component_With_Ability(sys_long_Playe r_ID, comp_abil)
endif

It'll be fixed.

[Q]

Thank you Kwok, that worked at least partially:

The recon sats have now two basic sensors and one tachyon sensor, which is not very useful.
And attack drones have tachyon sensors too. Is this intentional?

[Captain Kwok]

Not sure how you got Attack Drones to add tachyon sensors... I tried all 3 drone sizes and didn't see tachyon sensors added...

The double basic sensor was because I forgot to tell you about another line to change, but since then I deleted it, because it wasn't needed.

The attached file should work ok.

[Tim_Ward]

Nitpick: AIs seem to use rather a lot of support and resupply ships now, larger fleets have as many freighters as combat ships.

[Q]

Thank you again Kwok: now the recon sats are o.k.

One suggestion: you use stealth and scattering armor but not emissive armor in your designs. I defined another "emissive armor" variable and included this in the AI design file. As far as I see now, I can make AI designs use all 4 (non racial) armor types together.

[Captain Kwok]

I typically use 3 of the 4 normal armor types. The actual choices vary by empire. It was mostly a hedge for smaller ships at the time.

[Foreman]

BM version 1.11 log:
10. Changed - Removed fighters and troops from target types for Small Rocket Pods and Small Anti-Matter Torpedoes

In my game I launch an troop invasion on Cue Cuppa's planet. He send tons of troops with small-APB which cannot target troops now. That would be strange but anyway I got that planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Captain Kwok]

Yeah, that was a mistake. It should have been Small Anti-Matter Torpedoes (which is still targeting troops and fighters) and not Small Anti-Proton Beam. Last time I do a search with a partial string. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[MasterChiToes]

Are there supposed to be six levels of warp point creator?

[Captain Kwok]

Yes. They increase in the maximum distance you can make a warp point to.

[Baron Munchausen]

I've recently started a new BM 1.11 game and noticed that the descriptions of seeker attributes do not match their actual attribute very well. The Seeking Parasite, Power Lamprey, and Crystalline Torpedo are described as moving at 40 km/s but actually move at 50 km/s for example. (And, btw, shouldn't a 'torpedo' be much faster than a 'missile' type seeker?) The damage resistance formula for the CSM is different between the description and the actual attribute, as well. Apparently this will only result in a slight (and not increasing) error in this case. Maybe you should check all the various description formulas and make sure they are in synch.

[Captain Kwok]

I thought I updated the descriptions when I boosted the missile speeds a few versions ago. Oh well.

Torpedoes are generally faster than missiles, with the exception of the Crystalline Torpedo.