PBW "newbie game" [Archive] - .com.unity Forums

Dragonlord

June 26th, 2001, 06:35 AM

Small update to my Last post:

I also asked the mines question to a fellow player in my PBW game. I will paste a few lines from his email response:
> Mines can be lauched with out the help of a ship but it happenes at the end
> of the turn e.g as turn is processed
>
> In multiplayer get use to the orders screens (the eye) these screens tell
> you what you have told planets and ships to do during processing.

And here is my follow-up question:

Just one more question about the mines:
Must I use the "launch units remotely" button because the normal "launch /
recover units" button is greyed out. I can do that and say launch mines and
then click on planet (I assume if you click anywhere else it wont work cause
planets can only launch into their own orbits?). But this will not let me
control how many of the mines stored on the planet will be launched? I only
want to launch 10 or so (enough that a minesweeping destroyer level I cant
sweep em all) and keep the rest on planet so that my minelayers can pick
them up and move em around. Minelayers still cannot recover mines that are
already launched in to space, right?

Hope anyone can clarify.

Jubala

June 26th, 2001, 06:48 AM

Dragonlord, you have just discovered one of the more annoying aspects of sim turn games. Launching of units is an all or nothing deal since it can only be done with the "Launch Units Remotely" button. The only way to control how many units is launched is to only have that amount of units to launch or build a ship/base that can only launch the wanted number of units. Which pretty much means that you need two ships to lay mines and sats. One to do the launching and one to do the carrying. A bit of a pain.

Oh, and you're right about how to make a planet luanch. If don't want to launch them all have a transport or base with cargo space take the rest on board while launching. Like I said, a pain.

Dragonlord

June 26th, 2001, 07:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jubala:

Oh, and you're right about how to make a planet luanch. If don't want to launch them all have a transport or base with cargo space take the rest on board while launching. Like I said, a pain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jubala, thanks for the clarification.
Anybody have any idea why it is implemented this way? Why not simply make it work the same way as in single-player games?

Dragonlord

June 26th, 2001, 07:04 AM

Back to Phoenix's message a few Posts ago:

The game has just started, and I must say I have an most excellent starting position (I think). Nice system with two breathable planets in it. I'm assuming placement was random (right phoenix?) and perhaps I'll get an advantage over other players who don't start off as well...my home system is also easily defendable...(evil chuckle).

Jubala

June 26th, 2001, 08:26 AM

Dragonlord, I have no idea why it is implemented that way. It's not consequent with how cargo is handled so I don't understand it.

As for your start in your game, yes it is good. Two breathable planets aint all that usual and if they are both medium or above in size count yourself lucky. And if I am correct in assuming you only have one warp point leading our of your homesystem then it sounds to me like you have a really good starting position. Good luck. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

June 26th, 2001, 07:01 PM

I re-gened until I got the map I wanted- I like the "all WPs connected" OFF, then re-gen the map until they are all connected approach.

I got an easily defensable system too.

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

June 26th, 2001, 07:55 PM

Phoenix, I like that map generation approach too. I hope spoogy and the nostro player hurry a bit, in this initial stage it takes me no more than 5 minutes to play a turn, so if we're all behind our PC's we could play 3 turns a day or so at least...
Then again I am lucky enough to have an always-on connection (cablemodem) so I know immediately if email arrives with a new turn.
Dial up Users would have more delays http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

Baal

June 26th, 2001, 07:56 PM

BAD NEWS:

We need to restart the game. I generated my empire from the "Quick Start" menu and it put a differnt password on my empire than what I gave to PBW.

MORAL OF THE STORY:

Don't ever generate a race from the quick start menu to save time because SE4 puts passwords on all races to prevent tampering.

Sorry guys, my bad.

CaptSpoogy

June 26th, 2001, 08:14 PM

I have just uploaded my turn. I cannot reveal too much information about my locations, but it will serve adequately until I am destroyed soon time in the future...

------------------
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Baal

June 26th, 2001, 08:14 PM

Never mind that Last post. I got the password thanks to the help of geoschmo. No restart needed.

Baal

June 26th, 2001, 08:21 PM

I uploaded my file. My start is kind of bad. No breathable planets. :-(

CaptSpoogy

June 26th, 2001, 08:39 PM

This is so exciting! I don't why I never tried this before, or maybe I do...

The Moral of this post:

Sure, it's fun to try something new and it may even be exciting and rewarding for awhile, until you get your head chopped off or Marjoram III explodes in a fireball...

Either way, I'm doomed.

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CaptSpoogy

June 26th, 2001, 08:40 PM

Don't worry - I don't have any other breathable planets other than my own...

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geoschmo

June 26th, 2001, 08:58 PM

Hey guys. Have fun with your newbie game. Let us know how it goes.

Geoschmo

Dragonlord

June 26th, 2001, 10:45 PM

Just checked the PBW site and it is processing the first turn now, but seems to have problems with Phoenix's password.

Baal, I think that regardless of what you tell PBW about yuor password when you upload your .emp file, you still have to configure your password when you create your empire, and it becomes then a part of your emp file. (I had that problem on my first PBW game a few days ago). Also, if for some reason something is wrong with the password or you forgot to use it completely (like I did) you can still log on to your turn with a blank password and change the password with the Empires (yellow crown thingy) button.

Phoenix-D

June 27th, 2001, 08:37 PM

Spoogy, what are you talking about? Did you actually get an EVENT saying the star was going to blow in whatever years? Because that is the only way the star will blow.. the little descriptions on the stars are meaningless.

Oh, and as far as I know, no one has any breathable planets in their home system, other than their homeworld. Odd, eh?

Thanks to the PBW admins for helping us sort out my various screwups, too http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Suicide Junkie

June 27th, 2001, 08:47 PM

I'm pretty sure that the captain is just trying to get you to ignore him as a non-threat while he plots to take over the galaxy http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif

Phoenix-D

June 27th, 2001, 08:54 PM

Well, then upload your turn so we can get going again! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

CaptSpoogy

June 27th, 2001, 09:38 PM

Sorry guys for the wait!!! I work the night shift at work and I just woke up this afternoon!

No, my star is not going to explode!

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CaptSpoogy

June 27th, 2001, 09:40 PM

Aargh! The processing failed again! I was hoping to get back to back turns in...

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CaptSpoogy

June 27th, 2001, 09:42 PM

My doom and gloom message was not about a possible catastrophic event unless you count my lack of experience against real players and the general lack of strategic ability...

Is anybody reading the game forum?

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Phoenix-D

June 27th, 2001, 10:27 PM

"or Marjoram III explodes in a fireball..."

I'd set the thing to manual and run it, but PBW isn't loading totally for me right now. Dunno why, maybe they're working on it?

Anyway, I read the forum, but my race is so oddball it's taking time to get their start posted..

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

June 27th, 2001, 10:34 PM

@(*#&@#()*& WHy is the processing failing? I thought the PBW admins had sorted that out....

OK (takes breath, calms down).

Just disappointed cause I hoped we could get 2 or 3 turns in tonight, since there's only 4 players we *should* be able to go faster than the 12-player other game I am in.
Btw, is every body else in the US too? I am on Eastern Time. Would help if all players are at their PC's at roughly the same time every day...

Phoenix-D

June 27th, 2001, 11:52 PM

It did go through, just not on the first try apparently.

I screwed up with the password, which is why it didn't like doing it.

Phoenix-D

Baal

June 28th, 2001, 02:01 AM

I just uploaded my 2400.2 game file. Let's see if we can't get a couple turns in today.

Dragonlord

June 28th, 2001, 03:39 AM

I uploaded my stuff too, waiting on Spoogy.
Spoogy are you normally playing in the evenings, ET? Am trying to find out best hours of the day to have everybody at their PC and we can play like one turn per 30 minutes for a bit.

Phoenix-D

June 28th, 2001, 03:59 AM

Maybe I should have used 3 planet start.. this is kinda slow starting http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

June 28th, 2001, 04:52 AM

Phoenix, yes , that's a good lesson for the next game. Most of my experience with PBW (very limited) comes from my first PBW game in which we are now in turn 9, and we started with 5 planets. That makes the game interesting much faster, got some fast and furious diplomacy going on now.
That game (and my low ranking in it) has also given me ideas about a much better race design...if only I could have used it in our newbie game.. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif sigh.

You know..we're only in turn 3...we could always start over with 3 or 5 planets each and all agree on a timeperiod so we could play the first 5 turns or so quickly...

Phoenix-D

June 28th, 2001, 05:11 AM

Or I could just start another game and we play that one too http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif I'll do that now, actually, and try not to screw the setup up this time.

Phoenix-D

Baal

June 28th, 2001, 05:25 AM

Personally, I like this one planet start. It has potential of being really exciting.

Dragonlord

June 28th, 2001, 08:23 AM

OK, I just applied for Newbie Practice II.
Now I got to go work on my new and improved Dragon race, get a shipset and upload it to PBW...

Baal

June 28th, 2001, 07:40 PM

So... are we not going to continue the first newbie practice game?

Dragonlord

June 28th, 2001, 07:50 PM

Got my Dragon shipset set up and sent it to PBW. Am ready to rock.

As for our newbie game 1: I wouldn't mind either way (to continue it or not). I am in three PBW games now, and with Newbie II it will be four games. Though two of the 3 games now only take me 5-10 minutes a day, the third one (starting with 5 planets and 20 races) is already taking me over an hour a day. So I'm worried that as we get further ahead in the other PBW games, SE will really occupy my whole day, and I'll be shot by my girlfriend. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

So I guess on second thought all in all I'd prefer cancelling Newbie I and playing quickly through the initial stages of Newbie II. But since we don't have exactly the same players in both games that would be unfair to those left out in Newbie I. Perhaps Phoenix can up the limit on Newbie II to 5-6 players so they can join too...if only Capt. Spoogy sent in his turns faster !

Phoenix-D

June 28th, 2001, 07:53 PM

Yeah, for all his impatience before the game, Capt. seems to be rather tardy now http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

In any case, if you need to drop out I can just kick ya and let the AI bungle it's way through the rest of the game. Or you could abandon all your planets, same deal.

Phoenix-D

CaptSpoogy

June 28th, 2001, 08:17 PM

SORRY GUYS!

I work 12hr shifts TUE-THUR 7pm-7am, so I don't get home till 7.30am and then sleep for a few hours...

I'll try for two turns now...

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CaptSpoogy

June 28th, 2001, 08:29 PM

Starting tomorrow, I'll be able to play an unlimited amount of turns! I promise!

The few hours I'm home I try to get more than 1 turn in, but it keeps having bad turn execution, and then it's not fixed until I'm at work and I can't do anything about there...

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CaptSpoogy

June 28th, 2001, 08:36 PM

Aha, I've already played two turns in the Last five minutes, see...but I guess that this game is toast - since everyone went to play in Newbie Practice II...

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Phoenix-D

June 28th, 2001, 08:38 PM

Nah. I've in three so far, and am playing all three, soo..

Just make sure to TELL me if you stop playing, so I can tell the system not to wait for you.

Phoenix-D

CaptSpoogy

June 28th, 2001, 08:41 PM

I really, really want to play! It's just that turn execution error stopped me from getting multiple turns in before I had to go to work, but tonight is my Last night, so I'll have lots of free time during the weekend (It's a long weekend in Canada, HAPPY CANADA DAY!)

I was getting into my one planet start - I've already colonized another planet!

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CaptSpoogy

June 28th, 2001, 08:46 PM

If everyone starts uploading their turns now, I could get in 4-5 turns right now...

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Phoenix-D

June 28th, 2001, 09:05 PM

Yeah. but it never works that way http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

geoschmo

June 28th, 2001, 09:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
In any case, if you need to drop out I can just kick ya and let the AI bungle it's way through the rest of the game. Or you could abandon all your planets, same deal.

Phoenix-D<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can do what you suggested, but one of the best things about PBW is how quickly you can find a replacment player for someone that has to drop out.

Simply hit the KICK button next to their empire on the game admin screen and your game will go up on the Open Games list with a big red "Replacement player needed" next to it. Once someone applies to join, click on accept and they will get an email with the empire password. Often you can get a replacment in and playing before everyone even knows someone is missing.

Just a suggestion.

George "geoschmo" Perley
Lead Game Administrator http://seiv.pbw.cc

Dragonlord

June 29th, 2001, 05:34 AM

I'll hang in there for now, it's not taking much time yet, but maybe in a week or so if playing 4 games at once gets too hectic, I'll drop ot of the one-planet start (newbie I) since that will take longest. I'll let you know if someone needs to take over.

Spoogy, you mentioned your work hours, but what time zone?

Myself, I am on Eastern time, have 24/7 Internet conn, and usually near PC between noon and midnight. So if an email comes in with the next turn I'll hear it and have my next turn uploaded within (usually) 30 minutes.

My major gripe with Sim games is that you can't save your turn. When you start playing your turn, you either finish it and send it in or cancel and start from beginning of turn. That's annoying if your waiting on email from other players about trades/treaties...I usually end up penalizing the tardy eMailers (and ultimately myself) by sending in my turn anyway so I can get back to my solo game vs AI.

Dragonlord

June 29th, 2001, 05:36 AM

Hehe, now we got Spoogy hot and ready behind his PC and now Baal is being slow. Maybe he assumed the game got canceled?

Baal

June 29th, 2001, 05:41 AM

Sorry My bad. I had to work kind of late today. I'll have mine uploaded in a few minutes.

Baal

June 29th, 2001, 05:48 AM

I have this idea. Let's all plan on uploading our games at certain times each day. Let's say before 10:00 am EST and before 10:00 pm EST. So let's all plan. Like say I'm not going to be home in time to make my turn by the 10:00 deadline, I am going to have to upload mine earlier. so that I don't hold everyone up.

Once again sorry about the hang up.

Baal

June 29th, 2001, 06:11 AM

I've got my 2400.4 turn uploaded so you guys don't have to wait on me again. See all ya in the morning.

Dragonlord

June 29th, 2001, 06:28 AM

10 Am will be hard for me. I would rather have everybody reserve say an hour a day (9 PM to 10 PM EST?) to be at his PC, send in his turn, send in the next turn 10 minutes later, etc.
What I do is have my email program running at all times, and then I play solo SE4. When I hear the little ding dong (you got mail) I save my game, play the PBW turn, upload it, and go back to my solo game. Ensures a fast turnaround on incoming emailed turns.

Baal

June 29th, 2001, 02:38 PM

9:00 pm - 10:00 pm EST (7:00 - 8:00) would be fine for me for now I suppose. I may work through to 10:00 though sometimes. How about an hour later? 10:00 pm - 11:00 pm? I never work past 8:00 MST.

CaptSpoogy

June 29th, 2001, 09:01 PM

No more work for the weekend, so it looks like I'll be able to get lots of turns in...

Personally, I finding the simultaneous movement is throwing me off a bit, but I think I'm getting more used to it pretty quickly.

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Phoenix-D

June 29th, 2001, 09:18 PM

Yeah, it's throwing me off a bit too. OTOH, it does prevent things like: open WP, send in star destroyer, blow star, close WP. You'd have to do it in two turns now, instead of the one-turn instant blow in turn-based mode.

Oh, and on the timeframes: sorry to throw a wrench in the works guys, but we'd have to it on a day-by-day basis. I can't plot out a set time I can be there every day. Probably should take that to the game forum, as well.

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

June 29th, 2001, 09:23 PM

Hey we're doing well on the newbie games today. Across the two newbie games I got in 3 turns within an hour.

As for timeframes. I'm here in the afternoons, but can dedicate more time to gaming in the evening/night. (less distractions). But since Phoenix doesn't have a fixed time window per day that he's available, the point is moot I guess.

CaptSpoogy

June 29th, 2001, 09:43 PM

This seems to be progressing fairly quickly now. Of course, this is just a shameless post as I could claim it to be #27000 on the board!

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Baal

June 29th, 2001, 09:52 PM

I'm glad I started to play all my games in SiMov mode, it acclimated me to the format.

Indeed, it is moving quite fast now.

CaptSpoogy

June 30th, 2001, 12:51 AM

The Terran Federation has just encountered their first alien race. Unfortunately their a neutral empire of violent renegades.

Perhaps, they can learn of alternatives to their violent and savage ways and established peaceful relations with me...

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Baal

June 30th, 2001, 01:18 AM

Well, that's bad for the rest of us. Someone is soon to have a slave race. I'm going to have to work harder to find a little slave race to call my own now.

CaptSpoogy

June 30th, 2001, 01:24 AM

I'm trying to role-play somewhat and I don't really want to ensalve them, although I fear that conflict will be inevitable.

Check the game forum, I'm doing a little role-playing there...

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Phoenix-D

June 30th, 2001, 04:38 AM

Heh, my starting position (and the surronding areas) play perfectly to my RP and my race.. now only if I could find planets worth a damn http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Baal

June 30th, 2001, 05:42 AM

I Kind of have to laugh. You are finding planets at all? I'm not so lucky as you Phoenix-D.

Dragonlord

June 30th, 2001, 07:28 AM

I'm doing OK. Since my score has been on 1st place for a couple of turns now, I can maybe divulge some classified empire info. So far I have 6 planets, 3 of them breathable. Only one way into my systems. Have found no other species yet. Am kinda worried that on this map, each human player started in one corner and everything links up through one or two central systems where we'll have a huge war in 30 or 40 turns.. then it comes down to skillful diplomacy, getting an ally to crush the other two and then slug it out with former ally for final domination of galaxy.

Hmm...anyone interested in being my ally so we can rid the galaxy of all others so we can give each other our "undivided" attention ? :-) Email me...

PS I am glad we got in 9 (!) turns today, sorry I couldnt always guarantee my 30 minute turnaround promise, had to watch a movie with girlfriend, and spent over an hour on another PBW game turn.

Phoenix-D

June 30th, 2001, 07:45 AM

You have THREE breathables?!

I've found one in the entire map I've explored! And it's way the heck out there, to boot.

Guess I picked the wrong atmosphere for this race..

EDIT: Oh, and to add insult to injury: I have 3 breathable huge GAS GIANTS nearby. I can't use them, don't have the tech yet. Doh.

Phoenix-D

[This message has been edited by Phoenix-D (edited 30 June 2001).]

CaptSpoogy

June 30th, 2001, 08:09 AM

Crap...It sounds like you're both off to a decent start...this could mean trouble for the peaceloving Terran Federation...I'm glad I'm not the only one up at this time...

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CaptSpoogy

June 30th, 2001, 08:13 AM

I just completed my turn - aargh! I'm in 7th place!

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Phoenix-D

June 30th, 2001, 08:32 AM

And I thought *I* was doing bad- you're behind the neutrals! Bad start?

Phoenix-D

CaptSpoogy

June 30th, 2001, 08:34 AM

I don't know what it is - I have 5 planets and several ships. Oh well, maybe things will get better...I don't think I'm that far behind.

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Dragonlord

June 30th, 2001, 09:13 AM

Well, let me tell you some more. All the systems I found so far are in one straight line connected. (hope none of you are ancient race else you'll know where I am).
I colonised all there was in my home system and the next one. Then I get 2 empty systems, then a juicy one with 3 more breathable planets. So I'm constructing a deep-space colonisation fleet to go grab that system. Problems: it will take me 6 turns to get there. And I can't afford the maintenance on the fleet, all my planets are crap for minerals. Plus there's 2 more wormholes (unexplored) leading to the juicy system...so I hope none of you beats me to it. Just in case I am delaying my fleet send-off one turn so I can arm them to their teeth http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Baal

June 30th, 2001, 03:23 PM

My Jealousy of your starting position is overwhelming Dragonlord. I only have 4 planets. They are all good though.

CaptSpoogy

June 30th, 2001, 06:10 PM

It looks like most of you are out for blood. That probably means that I'll be in lots of trouble early and often.

I still think I'm doing alright though, considering this is my first pbw game. Well, you live and learn (or perhaps here I should say "die and learn")...

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Dragonlord

June 30th, 2001, 08:05 PM

Whoops, looks like I made another newbie mistake. I had colonised a breathable planet in my second system. Could build 10 facilities, built 4 research centers and a space yard. NOW I find out that spaceports are needed not only for resources but also for research points http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif So that probably puts me behind you guys on the research curve.
In an attempt to reduce the huge maintenance cost on the fleet I am now constructing (4 colonizers and supporting escorts) I have sent out two destroyers with remote mining equipment to some high-mineral planets. They're nice huge gas planets, but I don't think I'll get gas colonisation anytime soon so too bad for the depletion of minerals I'm causing now on those planets.

Phoenix-D

June 30th, 2001, 08:21 PM

I don't have THAT problem Dragon..Nautral Merchants rocks http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif A bit expensive for what it gives you, but I like it anyway.

Phoenix-D

CaptSpoogy

June 30th, 2001, 08:23 PM

Listening to Dragonlord's reportoire of ships and planets makes me nervous...

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Baal

June 30th, 2001, 08:25 PM

Sorry guys but I have to work for the next 7 hours so don't expect the game to move very fast today.

Just thought that I would warn you.

CaptSpoogy

June 30th, 2001, 08:35 PM

WORK?

What? You're going to work? Why don't you just take the day off? Huh? There are people here with no lives that expect to play for the entire day. Are you going to let them suffer just so you can earn money? What are you going to use the money for, huh? Food and shelter? Give me a break.

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CaptSpoogy

June 30th, 2001, 08:44 PM

You think I'm joking? - I'M AS SERIOUS AS A HEART ATTACK.

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Dragonlord

June 30th, 2001, 08:56 PM

Actually it makes me feel less guilty that Baal has to work, cause I can't play much for the next few hours either. My girlfriend does not work on weekends so we are going to the pool, and to the movies tonight. When I get back I expect to spend an hour at least on a turn in Letharg's PBW game (it's hard to keep track of what Messages / treaties etc. you are negotiating with 10 humans and 10 AI's !!) , then I'll be available say around midnight EST for multiple turns in the newbie game(s). Last night I saw that three of us were up until pretty late, so I hope we can get some turns in this night.

Baal

July 1st, 2001, 04:45 AM

You are funny as hell, Spoogy, when you are desperate to play. I'll be upping my turn soon.

Baal

July 1st, 2001, 05:03 AM

In my opinion the best times to upload your files is after everyone else has upped theirs. Then when you up yours you can efectively wait for one minute and then play the next turn. Then the cycle starts over again.

Definitly the most convinient way to play.

CaptSpoogy

July 1st, 2001, 05:34 AM

It's good to have you back Baal - well until your attack fleets set my planets ablaze...

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CaptSpoogy

July 1st, 2001, 06:05 PM

The Terran Federation is moving on up - from 7th to 4th in just a matter of a few turns. But I don't think I'm anywhere near Dragonlord...

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Baal

July 1st, 2001, 06:17 PM

I think I am going to catch Dragonlord pretty quick now. I did a little exploring, and found what one might call a tresure trove. And, it's all mine.

CaptSpoogy

July 1st, 2001, 06:20 PM

Most of the surrounding area around my systems is dead space. Lots of systems - but little or nothing to be found.

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Baal

July 1st, 2001, 06:34 PM

I have found a lot of dead systems too. I just keep going though. I made some extreme range explorers that hold 5500 supplies, and I just keep sending them farther out.

My little trove is, needless to say, going to take a few months to reach with a colony ship.

Maybe I should have explored with colony ships.

Dragonlord

July 2nd, 2001, 03:55 AM

My empire is stalled. For the Last 4 turns my colonising fleet has been travelling to the only other colonisable system I found so far. But to keep my mineral stockpile from decreasing too fast I had four planetary shipyards just sitting there, not building anything. That never happened to me before in this early stage of a game I am usually rich enough to keep on building, even if its mines or such.
Oh well, at least I have some armed destroyers with me in case I run into someone else http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

July 2nd, 2001, 04:01 AM

Mine is stalled too, but only because we're waiting for Spoogy :P

I've been running negatives in radiactives and organics for a while, but my stockpiles are OK so I'll just throw up more producers some time.

Phoenix-D

CaptSpoogy

July 2nd, 2001, 04:18 AM

Sorry for the delay. Uploading now. I still have positive production in all areas, looking forward to the next turn.

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Phoenix-D

July 2nd, 2001, 04:31 AM

Well, I'm not running much of a debt anymore either. -1 lol. I'll be broke in, oh, a couple hundred centuries http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Baal

July 3rd, 2001, 04:12 AM

This game suddenly got a little more interesting for Phoenix-D and I. I have finally found another human player. It has me kind of on edge.

Phoenix-D

July 3rd, 2001, 04:20 AM

Yeah, it "only" took us 31 turns to make contact :P

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 3rd, 2001, 04:54 AM

I have not found any human players yet (as you know) but today I discovered the first aliens. It's the ligh colored greens (whatever their name is, Kyrat or such) but unfortunately they occupy the same atmosphere rocks as I do.
I have succeeded in colonizing the juicy system I mentioned a few days ago, and to stabilise my mineral production, though I fear it delayed other efforts. I had to spend 3 turns researching minerals II so I could upgrade my home planet's miners.
I would love to explore further, but am a bit paranoid. On my frontier are two nebulae, and I am afraid that if I send my small exploratory force through it, a human player will slip by me and attack my recently established colonies. Oh well, such are the challenges of SEIV http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

July 3rd, 2001, 05:16 AM

You're worried about that?

Load up the turn after I first contact you.

Look in your northern area..

notice the frigite parked there? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Also: solar panels don't work as well as I'd hoped.

Phoenix-D

Baal

July 3rd, 2001, 05:38 AM

What worries me is that I might lose population. That is my main concern, keeping my race alive and well. And all those ships just popped out of no where.

I suppose that I should be a tad more worried about meeting Dragonlord. That guy has quite an economic backbone.

Phoenix-D

July 3rd, 2001, 05:52 AM

Me, I just find it pathetic that my first losses were not from humans, but from a pair of ships from those blue idiots. Embarassing.

Oh well, they gave my race something to vent on.

Phoenix-D

CaptSpoogy

July 3rd, 2001, 04:03 PM

Thus far, I'm enjoying my game - but a little disappointed at the lack of good habitable planets in my region. Perhaps my unique location makes up for it though.

[This message has been edited by capt_spoogy (edited 03 July 2001).]

Baal

July 3rd, 2001, 08:02 PM

WARNING: I'm off to work for 7-8 hours so I would not recommend staying by the computer waiting for me to send in my turn.

Hey Spoogy, you should trade some ships for an alien transport that is parked around their homeworld. The computer always loads up the transports with population when they are around the homeworld. That could help you out if you have colonized a lot of Carbon Dioxide planets.

Dragonlord

July 4th, 2001, 04:20 AM

I hope Baal can put in a few turns later tonight, I am getting bored. Finally made first contact with a human player Last turn, and curious to see what kind of relationship this will turn into.

CaptSpoogy

July 4th, 2001, 08:17 PM

Sorry for the delay. I work that long night shift, so I pretty much inactive between 6pm EST to 2 pm EST the next day. But I'll always try to get as many turns in as I can during the 4 hours I'm home.

I'm in Canada, so no independence holiday for me - we just had ours on Sunday. We should be able to do lots of turns again this saturday...

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Phoenix-D

July 5th, 2001, 08:02 AM

Delay is NP.. the other game's been cranking out the turns today, don't think I could have handled both.

You work Mon-Fri?

Phoenix-D

CaptSpoogy

July 5th, 2001, 08:21 PM

I work TUE-THU and one FRI a month. I really don't mind the 12hr shifts, actually I kind of like getting the 4 days off in between.

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CaptSpoogy

July 6th, 2001, 03:13 PM

Well, I think it's official that everyone has encountered another human player. It took a while longer for me as I have an usual position on the map. I cannot reveal more about it, but it's cool - although I'm curious about the goings on outside my area...

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Dragonlord

July 7th, 2001, 02:07 AM

Newbie 1 seems to head for conflict eventually between me and the 2nd place player (Nostro race). For now we remain peaceful though.

Phoenix, in Newbie II it suddenly takes the server at least 30 minutes to process turns, unlike the 3 minutes or so it used to be. Any idea why?

CaptSpoogy

July 7th, 2001, 02:15 AM

I believe they are preparing to move to a faster server, so it might be related to that.

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Baal

July 7th, 2001, 03:36 AM

Ya know you might be right. But I'm not the number 2 player anymore. I've been pushing my score for the Last 10 turns and I find that it is quite hard to catch another players score.

I just kind of wish that everyone was aggressive so that we actually got in war causing disagreements. Maybe that's a byproduct of having only 4 human players, and no other expanding empires.

Dragonlord

July 7th, 2001, 07:51 AM

Baal, you're right, you surpassed me and am now number 1. You got some impressive resource production going on. Have you met Phoenix yet in the game? I wonder if he could be of any help to me http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Because in 6-8 turns as you begin expanding westwards you'll run into me.

Dragonlord

July 7th, 2001, 07:52 AM

Baal, you're right, you surpassed me and are now number 1. You got some impressive resource production going on. Have you met Phoenix yet in the game? I wonder if he could be of any help to me http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Because in 6-8 turns as you begin expanding westwards you'll run into me.

Dragonlord

July 7th, 2001, 07:53 AM

Oops sorry for the double post, I saw a typo in the first one and thought I hit "stop" in time before the post was actually made. Oh well.

Phoenix-D

July 7th, 2001, 08:57 AM

The newbie 2 delay probably had something to do with the turn execustion barfing on us..

Phoenix-D

BeeDee10

July 7th, 2001, 09:21 AM

I don't mind Newbie 2 slowing down a bit; it looks like it's starting to become more of a thinking game now what with the trading and negotiating that's starting to pick up.

Not that those 15-turn evenings weren't fun, of course. I just worry that if I take time to think I'll be holding everyone else back. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Baal

July 7th, 2001, 07:43 PM

I don't know if I am going to expand that way. There may not be a whole lot of planets I would like to have. I really only go for breathable planets.

I have met Phoenix. We talked for a bit, setting up some borders. We haven't had any recent communications. I'm afraid he might be building a large armada to attack me with. I hope that I am ready for his onslaught. Maybe I should sign a treaty with him...

EDIT: By the way, in one hour from this post I'm off to work for 8 hours. Just a heads up for ya guys.

[This message has been edited by Baal (edited 07 July 2001).]

Phoenix-D

July 7th, 2001, 08:18 PM

Actually, the negotiations in Newbie 2 are almost going TOO fast http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif By the time a message explaining my situation is recived, another message proposing something ELSE is sent.

Meanwhile my minefields have 30mT worth of kills :-)

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 8th, 2001, 06:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Baal:

I just kind of wish that everyone was aggressive so that we actually got in war causing disagreements. Maybe that's a byproduct of having only 4 human players, and no other expanding empires.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

/ooc Baal, be careful what you wish for in Newbie 1 :-) /end ooc.

I am happy to report that the very first battle in history between Dragon ships and ships from another sentient race (the Nostro, ruled by Baal) has been fought. It was a glorious day for the Dragons!

Baal and I have been contesting possesion of a system occupied by a neutral race. I had initially given him control of it, while I was building up planets and a fleet. When I saw that he was rising fast in the rankings, and even pushed the dragons out of their rightful position of no. 1 ;-) I decided to take action.

While I was sending my fleet at top-speed to the contested zone, Baal had colonised a planet there and had enough time to build a resupply depot, and apparantly, mines !
Unbeknowst to the poor Nostro ships, my entire fleet (including support ships) was soon cloaked and sitting right next to him. After a message had been sent in which we broke our tentative non-agression pact, a full scale attack was launched. However, the Nostro fleet was refueling at the time at the colony outpost, and mines had been launched just in time to provide the Nostro with added protection. Sadly, my fleet contained no minesweepers, a mistake which will not happen again.

Badly damaged from the mines, with most of their armor blown away, my five attack ships limped towards the enemy, while my support ships retreated. After a brief exchange of fire, all seven Nostro destroyers perished, while my forces lost only one destroyer.
The colony outpost followed the same fate shortly afterwards.
Then two sectors away we spotted another two ships on the way back to Nostro territory. We destroyed these too, for good measure. The remaining two Nostro ships (one destroyer and one repair ship) were too far away, and were seen fleeing the scene in the next month. We conclude that the battle was won through the element of surprise and superior weapons.

The contested system now remains under firm Dragon control, with Alpha fleet on patrol.
Now that we have demonstrated that our territorial claims are not to be trifled with, Messages have been sent to the Nostro empire via diplomatic courier to re-establish a semblance of peace. We hope that they have learned their lesson and stay in their part of the galaxy.

Signed,
Emperor Avatar the Dragonlord

Phoenix-D

July 8th, 2001, 07:17 AM

OK, slight problem here guys.

My main comptuer just went splat. It can run for ~45 seconds, then stops. If I turn it off, then turn it back on, I get no video signal unless I remove/replace the VGA cable.. then I get the 45 second problem again.

This makes playing SE4 rather difficult. Just to make things interesting, I don't remember my password!

Phoenix-D

Phoenix-D

July 8th, 2001, 07:39 AM

Found the problem. My GeForce 2 is on the fritz it seems. The AI may have to take over for a day or two.

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 8th, 2001, 08:08 AM

Sorry to hear about your problems, Phoenix. I hope you will be able to solve them soon.
Am a little bit confused over something: turns are processed on the PBW server, not on the machine of the host player, right?
All you have as host is a master password and the ability to add/replace players?

Are you saying you will let the AI run your race for two days on Newbie I and II?
Although that would ensure we maintain the large number of turns/day (especially at night it seems), be aware that I've heard the AI can really mess up your empire...

Phoenix-D

July 8th, 2001, 09:35 AM

PBW runs the turns, correct.

The thing it, it's also on a timer. Miss a turn, and the AI plays that turn for you. Time limit is 24 hours.

In any case, I *THINK* I have the problem solved.

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 8th, 2001, 11:13 PM

I'm still hoping Baal will post his views on the battle we fought :-)

Phoenix, good to see you're back in the game.

Baal

July 9th, 2001, 12:08 AM

Sneak attacks are best.

No one is ever your ally or even friendly.

That's my view.

CaptSpoogy

July 9th, 2001, 01:17 AM

Baal and Dragonlord - You two guys are going good. Almost 300k points - compared to me in third with 120k. It's going to be one hell of a war.

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BeeDee10

July 9th, 2001, 01:57 AM

Mineral planets are best!

Baal

July 9th, 2001, 02:01 AM

How is it that you can see my score Spoogy but I can not see yours?

It may come in handy for me in the future.

EDIT: By the way it will probably be a short war for me 'cause I have crappy ships that Dragonlord can just blow out of the water. I've been wasting my time researching crappy tech, like Applied Political Science and Shields.

[This message has been edited by Baal (edited 09 July 2001).]

Phoenix-D

July 9th, 2001, 02:53 AM

Shields are by no means crappy http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif In newbie 2, Im blowing the heck out of the Eee with decade-old ships mounting Meson BLaster IIs.

They deal less damage, but the Eee shielding REALLY sucks. Well, that and overwhelming numbers.. 37 on one, you're pretty much screwed.

Phoenix-D

Baal

July 9th, 2001, 03:09 AM

Well Dragonlord is using PPBs and I don't have the research output to make phased shielding worth while.

CaptSpoogy

July 9th, 2001, 05:23 AM

Baal - through observation. I've been in contact with Dragonlord and I know you and him and switching back and forth (as he keeps going from 1st to 2nd).

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CaptSpoogy

July 10th, 2001, 01:18 AM

Currently, I find myself contained by the massive empires of Dragonlord and Baal. Well, at least they're not allies...

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Dragonlord

July 10th, 2001, 08:16 AM

Nope, Baal and I are in a quasi-war.
My biggest problem now is the long supply lines I have toward my front..I colonised some stuff near the front but it takes time to build up infrastructure there. Meanwhile I am very curious what Baal is up to...he just scarificed a ship (knowingly, I assume) against my patrol fleet, I guess so he could find out what components I use on ships http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Baal

July 10th, 2001, 08:07 PM

Actually that was to see what was beyond that warp point.

Dragonlord

July 11th, 2001, 01:56 AM

(**(&*))*()##

I just lost two LC's to Baal's minelayer. All along I thought it was an observer ship http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif Now I find out he layed mines all over the contested system. The Nostro will pay for this !
Allies, please join me in the mourning of my lost crewmen :-(

Puke

July 11th, 2001, 08:01 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Baal:
Sneak attacks are best.

No one is ever your ally or even friendly.

That's my view.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tend to disagree. while I may have been caught recently making a 'preemptive strike' in another game, they are generally not a good idea. especially if you get a reputation for doing it, and you end up in a game where you need alies but no one trusts you. I find my self wishing now that I had waitied a turn or so after a declaration of war before entering the target system with my fleet, as it probably would have left me with more friends in the long run. just as in the real world, war crimes dont (often) go unpunished (when they are not in the best interests of a major industrial power). I guess I was just lucky that all the major industrial powers in said game were able to see things my way.

I have to say, I think these newbie games are great, and hope that they continue on a regular basis, as they are churning out our future experienced players. I think most of you guys are already in other games as well, but this is as good a time as any to voice a little community support.

capnq

July 11th, 2001, 03:38 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I find my self wishing now that I had waitied a turn or so after a declaration of war before entering the target system with my fleet, as it probably would have left me with more friends in the long run.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>In my game in Geo's Survivor Tournament, I'm playing an Honorable Warrior race, the Rrurrr. We started off making a Trade Alliance with the first aliens we encountered, the Empire of Night, and eventually upgraded to Trade & Research. Our second contact, the Spoo, looked weaker, so we only agreed to Non-Aggression, not wanting to bolster our most likely enemy. (The first round games have See Allied Scores turned on, so I knew EoN was in 1st place.) When we ran out of unclaimed systems to expand into, we decided to expel the Spoo from the border system which we had colonized first, and sieze the two colonies the Spoo had placed there later. Rrurrr Honor demanded that we warn the Spoo to leave the system, and warn the EoN that we were going to seize their Partner's colonies.

We were completely surprised when the EoN decided to side with the Spoo rather than us. We seized the two Spoo colonies with almost no resistance, but the EoN has proceeded to glass several Rrurrr worlds in response.

The resulting war has been pretty grim for the Rrurrr, but Honor demands that we fight to the Last.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

[This message has been edited by capnq (edited 11 July 2001).]

Baal

July 11th, 2001, 04:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dragonlord:
(**(&*))*()##

I just lost two LC's to Baal's minelayer. All along I thought it was an observer ship http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif Now I find out he layed mines all over the contested system. The Nostro will pay for this !
Allies, please join me in the mourning of my lost crewmen :-(<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sucks doesn't it when you lose ships when you do not expect it.

EDIT: Anyway you must have been trying to attack a lone ship that had no back up, quite dishonorable. Kind of like your treachorous attack on our planet in Prenix.

[This message has been edited by Baal (edited 11 July 2001).]

Dragonlord

July 12th, 2001, 04:13 AM

Dishonorable?!!!

I have been trying to rid myself of the terrorist guerilla ship that lays mines all over MY system ! Jees, how many mines did you stuff into that LC before you sent it to the front? It must have launched at least 50 already, since I know it launches 10 per turn and there's minefields all over.

Odd though, my turn's movement gets executed before yours does (I think) but if I send in a ship to attack the minelayer, the minelayer has always somehow managed to launch mines in its own sector before my ship gets to it. Hmm...
Anyway, I'll be rid of it soon enough, with an enforced sweeper fleet on the way.

capnq

July 13th, 2001, 04:26 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Odd though, my turn's movement gets executed before yours does (I think) but if I send in a ship to attack the minelayer, the minelayer has always somehow managed to launch mines in its own sector before my ship gets to it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That sounds like your ship is catching the minelayer before it can leave the sector where it dropped the mines Last turn.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

CaptSpoogy

July 13th, 2001, 05:56 PM

Players of Newbie game - It's my first anniversary this weekend, so I might be a little limited in getting lots of turns in. I'll try my best to sneak in as many as I can...

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Dragonlord

July 13th, 2001, 05:59 PM

I just love these struggles between humans, Baal is deploying tricks an AI would never do !
My primary fleet finally wrested control of the contested system, and has moved past the wormhole in the direction of Baal's systems.
What we found was an empty system (just asteroids) with two wormholes leading into unexplored space. One wormhole had a single ship (from Baal) sitting on it, so I figured aha ! that way must lie his empire. I proceed to spend two turns moving towards, then killing that ship and warping through.
All I find in the next system is again...asteroids. So now I'm thinking that I should have gone through the other wormhole, and his ship was just a sacrificial decoy to lure me in the wrong direction to buy him time to build better defenses.

Baal, am I right?

Oh well, at least something came of it, buy moving into the wrong (?) system I finally made first contact with the fourth and Last human player in this game, Phoenix.
Phoenix is ranked 3rd or 4th, while Baal is 1st and I am 2nd. It will be interesting to see if Phoenix will choose a side in the war I'm in...or stays noncomittal in the hope we weaken ourselves enough for him to step in.

Ya gotta love this game in multiplayer.

Dragonlord

July 13th, 2001, 06:40 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by capt_spoogy:
Players of Newbie game - It's my first anniversary this weekend, so I might be a little limited in getting lots of turns in. I'll try my best to sneak in as many as I can...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's actually good news for me, I have friends staying over on friday and saturday, maybe even sunday, and will have almost no time to play in any of my PBW games. Will do anything I can to avoid having the AI play my turns, may even request a turn-upload extension from the host, but I hope it won't be necessary.

Happy anniversary !

Ouch that reminds me, our 3-year anniversary is next week and I really should start preparing some activities/gifts for that.

Baal

July 13th, 2001, 06:57 PM

I have to ask, what tactics am I using that the AI doesn't use?

EDIT: Good for you Spoogy, I think we should all take the day off then. Leave you to your life for a little while.

[This message has been edited by Baal (edited 13 July 2001).]

Dragonlord

July 15th, 2001, 06:33 AM

Baal:
Well for one thing you are trading with the neutral AI in the frontier system so that you always have an observer ship there.
And you lay mines where the AI wouldn't.

I also noticed that you just built a big fleet, you must have thought "hey if my weapons are inferior I can beat him through numbers". Will be an interesting fight.
You produced em fast though, did you put your entire empire on emergency build or something?

Phoenix-D

July 15th, 2001, 07:27 AM

heh, Newbie 2 is starting to turn into an Intel Version of M.A.D...since no one can stop intel attacks because of the bug, we just sling attacks back and forth.

Phoenix-D

BeeDee10

July 15th, 2001, 08:53 AM

Kind of a pity, I'd been hoping to avoid that due to the way the CI bug has totally whacked the balance between offence and defence. Won't be as much of a _strategy_ game if it all comes down to abstract intel point generation and the luck of hitting valuable ships/planets with intel ops rather than valueless ones. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

Ah well, at least this way I'll get to see how bad the CI bug will impact the game under field conditions...

Dragonlord

July 15th, 2001, 09:13 PM

Well you got me at a disadvantage in Newbie II because I still don't fully understand the CI bug. usually my attacks go through, but it also happened that three small ones were stopped at the same time.

I also wonder if the xenophobic roleplaying that Phoenix is doing in Newbie II will carry over into Newbie I. If it does, I'm in trouble in newbie I with Baal's hugely armored fleet at my border...

BeeDee10

July 16th, 2001, 02:32 AM

Well, I don't intend to "exploit" the CI bug, but it's kind of hard to avoid if one starts firing off lots of offensive covert operations. My plan is to shift to intelligence sabotage instead of counterintelligence if the game actually does turn ugly, and hope that that balances better.

(at this point I'm still not sure whether it's all going to fall apart into full-scale war or whether it's all just misunderstanding and mistrust that can yet be rectified. Phoenix doesn't seem overly xenophobic towards me, after all, though perhaps the Certadsh simply consider machine intelligences to be more trustworthy and inherently peaceful than organics. From my perspective attempting to mediate this dispute I can see how one might think that way. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

CaptSpoogy

July 16th, 2001, 02:46 PM

Personally, I for banning CI in Newbie I if everyone else agrees. I think it could possible destroy our game. I don't mind if the AI uses it - but once all the people do...it's going to destroy any strategy...

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BeeDee10

July 17th, 2001, 12:26 AM

The problem with the counterintelligence bug is that counterintelligence operations are badly crippled; no matter how many you've got running, they'll only block the first attack that hits you in the course of a single turn. What's more, the points will still be deducted from your other counterintelligence projects as if they'd blocked the other attacks even though they didn't.

This means that if you're running 12 counterintelligence IIIs, each with a hundred thousand points accumulated, and the enemy hits you with 8 sabotage projects simultaneously, then the first sabotage will be blocked and the remaining 7 will succeed. 8 of your counterintelligence projects will have points deducted from them as if they'd blocked all 8 attacks.

In other words, intelligence attacks still work at full strength but the _defence_ against them has been hopelessly crippled. At least so say the reports on this forum, I haven't actually tested this myself yet.

I really don't know what the best way to handle this is; banning intelligence operations altogether comes to mind, but that seems a little harsh. I hope that Malfador comes out with another patch that fixes this soon, so that we can simply upgrade to a new Version and relax.

Dragonlord

July 17th, 2001, 12:42 AM

Hmm in that case we should probably ban the use of all offensive intelligence (hence all intelligence) in Newbie II. Unfortunately I had a few crew conVersions in queue Last turn, but I won't launch any more offensive intel if we all agree to do that.

Phoenix-D

July 17th, 2001, 02:28 AM

A FEW?!

4 ships is a few? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Time for a non-use pact. Burn all the intel centers!

ah, crud. The AI would probably exploit that little hole, wouldn't it.. though I don't think I've been hit by AI intel yet.

EDIT: OK, stopping all intel against humans now..

Phoenix-D

[This message has been edited by Phoenix-D (edited 17 July 2001).]

BeeDee10

July 17th, 2001, 07:00 AM

I've been hit by the Nostropholo a few times, but the CI that I've been running has always been enough to stop it so far. the CI bug only kicks in when more than one attack hits simultaneously.

CaptSpoogy

July 17th, 2001, 05:38 PM

Well, Baal has just dropped out of the original "Newbie" game...

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geoschmo

July 17th, 2001, 05:43 PM

Baal must be getting hit in real life. He dropped from one of my games too. Too bad we all can't just sit around playing SEIV all day. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

Geo

Phoenix-D

July 17th, 2001, 08:24 PM

Well, hopefully his replacement can figure things out fast enough.. dropping in in the middle of a war is bound to be interesting.

Meanwhile, one of my colonies just got hit by my first random event. Earthquake that killed 5 million. Guess how many people I had on that colony? Yup, 5 million. Instant ghost town, just shake and bake!

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 17th, 2001, 10:18 PM

I suspect Baal dropped out partly because he just lost *the* decisive battle against me in Newbie I. His fleet of 50 ships managed to destroy some of my frontier worlds, cause I needed time to group together a response force. When we attacked Last turn, it was a major success. 45 ships against 50, we lost about 15 ships, he lost ALL. Of course it must have helped that my fleet was "legendary".

I'm sad he's leaving though, it was a lot of fun playing against him. I hope nothing serious is happening to him in real life.

Baal

July 18th, 2001, 02:16 AM

Dragonlord is completely right. I dropped because I could see that I was going to lose. I saw no reason to drag out an embarrassing defeat. I'm glad that some of my things entertained you Dragonlord. The mines were fun, the flanking your forward fleet was fun. I'm glad I could give you a small challange, but that's it for me.

I'm throwing in the gauntlet, you win. (translation = I quit, you kicked my *** to hard)

Sorry about dropping the grit tech game Geo, but I don't feel like getting my *** kicked again.

Sorry everyone but quitting is in my nature.

Dragonlord

July 18th, 2001, 04:31 AM

Hmm not sure if Baal was being sarcastic there...

By the way Baal, I'm sure you looked at the combat replay of our big battle. I figured the only way to stand a chance against those 50 ships, all heavy on armor, was to exploit its only weakness: build a lot of boarding ships FAST. But from the replay I couldn't really tell if that worked, it was mostly my ships doing more damage than yours because of the offense and defense bonuses I enjoyed.
And I did not end up with any of your ships in my fleet. I've never tried boarding parties before...did you see any of your ships going to my side mid-battle or firing on your own ships?

Dragonlord

July 18th, 2001, 05:08 AM

*bump*

Just a senseless post to see if my rank would go up when I hit 100 Posts.

Dragonlord

July 18th, 2001, 05:12 AM

Guess it didn't work :-(
Serves me right for paying attention to ranks.

Dragonlord

July 18th, 2001, 05:14 AM

Hey it did work ! Guess the server was slow to realise it http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Dragon-Sergeant

BeeDee10

July 18th, 2001, 06:45 AM

Oo, is that what determines rank, then? I'll have to make a point of posting more pointless little Posts, like this one. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

On the other hand, my sense of morality would give me problems. Stupid morals. So I guess I'll add a meaningful comment to this thread: Baal's departure from Newbie I can be worked into the game from a RP perspective by saying that his empire's leader was replaced after the loss of his fleet. By coup or by resignation or by election remains to be seen.
There, I feel better. And closer to five-star general at the same time.

Quikngruvn

July 18th, 2001, 07:45 PM

If you're looking for someone to take Baal's place, I'm game to try my hand at it. I'm a PBW newbie, so I qualify (I've taken a grand total of ONE PBW turn so far). It would be interesting to see if his empire can be salvaged. Remember: it's not hopeless until your Last colony has been blown to smithereens....

Quikngruvn

------------------
"That which does not kill you will make you stronger." -- Nietzsche

Phoenix-D

July 18th, 2001, 10:47 PM

Already have a replacment. He didn't know of Baal's agreement with the Certdash (me) though, so he got his scout ship blown to very small little pieces.

The Certdash are a bit territorial http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Phoenix-D

July 19th, 2001, 12:19 AM

Geez! Do I have a "kick me" sign on my empire, or what?

I got ship bombed this turn, so I went in to check the AIs (i.e. to see that no one was violating the no-offensive-intel against a player thing).

Result? EVERY AI I'll met- that is, all the AIs but one- has me as their EXCLUSIVE intel target. Even their counter intels are directed against me. Guess I pissed em off..

This is odd mainly because I haven't actually be fighting any race except the Eee much, though two of them are having a merry old time throwing themselves into my minefields.

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 19th, 2001, 12:31 AM

Looks like Baal's replacement is just as agressive (and stubborn) as Baal. He insists on attacking me, and pretended to make peace through a NA pact only to park a fleet at my border.

I am happy to report another big victory. My legendary fleet, with 30 ships, engaged the enemy fleet (18 ships). Most enemy ships are Battle Cruisers, while my fleet is mostly LC's and frigates.
We suffered not a single lost ship (though one came close at 96% damage) and all 18 enemy ships are either dead or captured.

Nostropholo, prepare for the fiery vengeance of the Dragons !

The only bad thing about killing that fleet though was that it put me too much ahead of the 2nd place player, so a neutral race (former Partner!) suddenly declares war on me (maybe I am MEE) and kills an outpost http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

BeeDee10

July 19th, 2001, 03:23 AM

Wow, it looks like Newbie I is _much_ more violent than Newbie II. I suspect my poor Irha-Nrr would be going absolutely bannanas trying to get everyone to make peace with everyone else if they were involved in that one. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

July 19th, 2001, 03:28 AM

It helps that we don't have all those genocidal AIs running around..

Phoenix-D

Quikngruvn

July 19th, 2001, 07:23 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Already have a replacment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bummer. Oh well, it's still fun to read up on what's going on....

Quikngruvn

Rollo

July 19th, 2001, 09:02 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Quikngruvn:
Bummer. Oh well, it's still fun to read up on what's going on....

Quikngruvn<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Quikngruvn,
Hi all others,

I am also a newbie to SE IV. Like Quikngruvn, I enjoy reading your Posts about those newbie games and would also like to join a game.

If other people are interested, maybe we could set up a new game.

Quikngruvn, are you in?
I guess we need at least 2 or 3 more players. So, come on newbies, this is fun http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

Sorry to "abuse" this thread for a roll call, but I thought this was a good place to come and look for new games.

So happy gaming and conquering to all...

Rollo

Rollo

July 19th, 2001, 10:33 AM

Hi again,
to everybody who doesn't know how and where to join and play PBW games (Like me, up to yesterday http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif).
You can register, find more information and join games here (http://seiv.pbw.cc/).

Quikngruvn

July 19th, 2001, 05:20 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Rollo:
If other people are interested, maybe we could set up a new game.

Quikngruvn, are you in?
I guess we need at least 2 or 3 more players. So, come on newbies, this is fun http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I actually set up a game Last night for general use, but I'll make that a PBW newbie game. I also created a new thread for it, My own private Idaho. (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/003255.html)

This should be QUITE entertaining!

Quikngruvn

------------------
"That which does not kill you will make you stronger." -- Nietzsche

Dragonlord

July 19th, 2001, 11:58 PM

Sounds good, I might join.
But the 96 hours per turn seems a bit too much to me...

Phoenix-D

July 20th, 2001, 12:52 AM

Gotta wonder how everyone is going to react to the stunt I just pulled in Newbe 2.. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Puke

July 20th, 2001, 01:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Gotta wonder how everyone is going to react to the stunt I just pulled in Newbe 2.. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

pray tell, describe.

------------------
"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)

Phoenix-D

July 20th, 2001, 01:14 AM

I'll wait a few, until the other players have time to react..

Phoenix-D

Quikngruvn

July 20th, 2001, 01:20 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dragonlord:
Sounds good, I might join.
But the 96 hours per turn seems a bit too much to me...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can drop the time, if the that's what the consensus says.... (It'll only be a democracy till the game starts!)

Quikngruvn

BeeDee10

July 20th, 2001, 01:53 AM

I, too, am very interested to see how Phoenix's little applecart-upsetting is going to affect the global balance of things. In no small part because I've been made into an accomplice. Curse my friendliness! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Dragonlord

July 20th, 2001, 03:10 AM

Uh? I just played a turn of Newbie II and did not notice anything out of the ordinary??
Hmm will now immediately reload that turn and see if I can figure it out.

Phoenix-D

July 20th, 2001, 03:38 AM

It may take a turn or two for the effects to be felt..

Phoenix-D

Quikngruvn

July 20th, 2001, 04:35 AM

Enquiring minds want to know!

(Patience, grasshopper....)

Quikngruvn

Dragonlord

July 20th, 2001, 05:51 AM

Uhm, you're not talking about the destruction of the Eee, are you Phoenix?
Cause I don't think that's a big event, although I may use it as an excuse to exact revenge on their behalf http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Hmm..say, if you opened a wormhole or something, wouldn't I see it immediately because I am ancient race? Do other players get notified in-game if someone opens a wormhole?

Phoenix-D

July 20th, 2001, 05:56 AM

No, it wasn't about the Eee.

You only get told if I open a wormhole if you can see it (i.e. are in the same system). Ancient Race only functions to give you the STARTING game map, I think.

Revenge for the Eee? Not happening.

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 20th, 2001, 07:11 AM

Oooh, you nasty fellow. I *do* know about the wormhole you just opened into the Wurtuy system. But maybe that's just by accident?
The Irrh-nur invited me (just in time I guess) to send a scout ship through that system, and though my ships is now (beginning of turn 89) in another system, it came from Wurtuy. So I guess that counts for being there to see the wormhole appear..

But I do recall a thread somewhere where people said that if someone tries to separate himself from the galaxy by closing all wormholes, you'd see it if you were ancient race.
Hmm...we newbies will figure it out as we go along I guess.

Phoenix-D

July 20th, 2001, 07:29 AM

You think that's it? You ain't seen nothin yet.

Phoenix-D

BeeDee10

July 20th, 2001, 08:36 AM

I believe that you're only explicitly notified in the log if you have a ship or planet in the system that the warp point appears in, but if you've got that area of space mapped you'll see the line appear on the map regardless of your presence there. Since you're ancient race, you'll see all warp lines appear or disappear wherever it may happen. The same applies to planet creation and destruction, explaining how you could watch that Irha-Nrr Maker class ship chewing its way around the asteroid belt in Cetkirk excreting planets as it goes even before you sent that scoutship there. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

BeeDee10

July 20th, 2001, 10:01 AM

Well, it looks like Newbie II might be wrapping up soon. It turned violent after all, and my poor Irha-Nrr have been caught unprepared to deal with war on such an enormous scale. Too many resources devoted to preparations for constructing ringworlds for my pacified species, not enough to building up those 30-ship fleets necessary to go head-to-head with a big human player. I am now attempting to negotiate terms with Dragonlord to preserve the lives of as many of my pacified species as possible.

I finally _did_ learn something new about playing against human players by playing Newbie II; they are much better at betrayal than the AIs. An excellent lesson for PBW players, I recommend it highly. I knew it intellectually beforehand, but until you actually _see_ the empire you've spent two weeks (realtime) building in the spirit of goodwill and peace for all races suddenly confronted by military forces you haven't prepared in the slightest for it's hard to keep it close enough to heart. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Dragonlord

July 20th, 2001, 09:10 PM

All hell is breaking loose in Newbie II.
I know some other people follow this thread as well so I'll try to give them some info, although it's a little hard if you can't see our galaxy map.

There's some hilarious stuff happening. As Phoenix mentioned, he's done something odd or nasty, and I'm trying to figure out what it is. I got a message from Beedee hinting that the Certadsh (Phoenix race) will be turning over all non-certadsh inhabited planets to the Irhh-nur. Maybe that's what Phoenix meant. I had been preparing for war for a long time, cause I knew If I didn't I would not win, Beedee has a higher economic base than me.
Just so you know, there's four human players. Beedee and myself are tied in first place with a score of 1.7M, the Certadsh (Phoenix) are a distant third at 600M, and the Tzeech race has 450M.
The Tzeech are under my protection, the Certadsh have had a Partnership with Beedee for a long time.

The map is a medium (i think) spiral, a true spiral. There is a circle of 10 or so systems in middle, half controlled by Tzeech and half by Beedee / AI. From the circle branch off three arms, the west arm curls to the west and splits off, these are all Beedee planets. The north and south arm curl to the east, run along the eastern edge of the map and meet up. I control the eastern 40% or so of the galaxy. So, barring wormhole openers, I only had to defend two wormholes, the ones in the north and south branch which lead to to the center.
Phoenix owns about 6 systems north of the central circle.

But Beedee (thus also Phoenix) has had Stellar Manipulation IV for some time now and wormholes are springing up all over the place, though not into my core systems yet.
I opened a wormhole to connect my east central system to the part of the center ring that the Tzeech control.
(does this still make sense?).

Anyway, I declare war a bit sooner than expected because Beedee spotted one of my fleets near the north branch border.
I anxiusly awaited the next turn. Through the element of surprise I was able to destroy about 15 of Beedee's ships, and will destroy some outpost planets soon. (we both have about 120 ships total).

Now here's what shocked me: when I opened the Last turn, I first looked at the battle reports and saw all went well. Then I scroll down in the log and see *a star has blown up* !!! Oh my God !! This star was in the Qornor system, which is about the furthest removed from the enemy as possible !! (bottom right corner of map).
Though I think that no enemy has maps of my systems, I had gifted that map to Beedee some time ago because I was showing him how I was dealing with the Last AI race there that was close to me. Remember, I'm a newbie, have never dealt with advanced stellar manipulation or WMG's or any like that before.

So I panicked. For a few minutes I was *convinced* that the enemy had somehow magically gotten a ship through 6 of my systems undetected, and could now happily follow the string of systems like a string of pearls, blowing up stars along the way.
Then I realised this was probably a catastrophe (from the ones that happen like every 100 turns). The timing was very bad for that http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
I lost 7000M colonists, and 22 ships to that stupid star. (this was an outdated fleet which was invading planets from the Last AI).
Oh well, saves on maintenance.
Too bad cause there were some good planets in that system.

Meanwhile, I see that Beedee is opening up several wormholes from his central nexus system towards the north and south branches of the spiral. Ironically, since he did not expect my attack, that now puts my fleets within 2 jumps from his nexus rather than the 7 jumps it would have taken before. However, I think Beedee isn't quite the newbie, since his new wormholes terminate on top of a core planet of his, which is assumedly heavily defended.

We'll keep you all posted on further developments http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

PS: the star destruction led me to a question about cloaking: I have sats with Level 3 cloak detectors everywhere, of the Hyper Optics kind. Can these detect all cloaks or do I need to research the Gravitic sensors as well? Is there something like Gravitic Cloaking? (maybe as a racial ability?)

Phoenix-D

July 20th, 2001, 10:05 PM

OK, time for me to spill:

What I did was throw the balance of power totally out of wack. We've been doing a bit of RP, especially between BD and myself, and the Certadsh history is catching up to this game.

The Certadsh have an Enemy, that chased them from their previous galaxy, reducing system after system to ash. The Certadsh made it.. barely.. and have been in a state of war for over 500 years, both here and there. It's the reason they're so xenophobic, along with their Neutral happyness type (which is a PAIN to keep happy..)

Now, I decided the Certadsh are going BACK, for revenge. The initial plan was to give all ships and planets not in my core systems to BeeDee's Irha-Nrr, and destroy the other ships, abandoning the planets. Problem: SE4 won't let you abandon your planets with over 50m people!

So I donated much of my equipment and planets, and am in the process of destroying the rest. Suddenly the third place player drops to 5th, and all hell breaks loose. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

BeeDee10

July 20th, 2001, 10:48 PM

Roleplay is what's killed me, too. My race, the Irha-Nrr, also have a history; they are descended from machine life forms created by an organic species that went to war with itself and used the Irha-Nrr as a weapon to destroy themselves in the process. Since then we've dedicated ourselves to protecting every sentient species we can from genocide. I think I wound up spending far too much time building troops, preparing for ringworld construction (I _just_ got started, darnit), and generally mopping up AI planets with the minimum of enemy casualties. I _thought_ that I'd managed to maintain a chordial relationship with Dragonlord, but he's obviously been gunning for me for some time now and building up his forces for this sneak attack (I didn't buy your "military coup" justification for a moment, Dragon; those ships came pouring in on three fronts the turn immediately after Phoenix upset the applecart. My dear trusted ally was setting this up for quite some time while we discussed peace. :)

Lesson number one for newbies: Pragmatism first, RP second. There are going to be players in the game with you who have the philosophy that in order for them to _win_, it is necessary for you to _lose._ Even if you don't approach the game that way yourself, be prepared for it in others. :)
In reference to Dragonlord's analysis, now, to provide a view from the other side.

Heh. I was thinking of accusing you of being non-newbie myself, Dragon. I am facing clearly unwinnable odds, you hit me at a really bad time. I think I've got enough combat ships to take out one or maybe two of your three fleets, but they are currently scattered all over the place mopping up pissant little Krill colonies. I was planning to use the nice shiny new warp openers to help gather them all together into a larger, more centralized force, but instead I'm now having to frantically re-close those new warplines as a delaying tactic while my surrender Messages get through.
Lesson two for newbies: ten ships in a single fleet is worth a hundred ships each on their own. Especially when most of those hundred are nowhere near the front you're trying to defend. :)

Another big problem with my existing fleet is that, since I haven't faced anyone with phased polaron beams yet, I stuck with ordinary Shield Vs for their added strength. Lesson three: If you research your way up to Shield V and then think "nobody's using PPB and if I add another tech level hitting "upgrade" will just weaken my designs," invite a friend over and have him start punching you in the face until you realize it's good to have defences available against all varieties of attack. :)

That central planet I've been opening warp lines from is _not_ heavily defended; I started building the defensive starbases only after I started opening the warplines. This was such a stupid mistake I won't even put a lesson number on it, it's the same one the Romans made with their roads. Paths which let your defence fleets move rapidly around your empire will _also_ allow their attack fleets to move rapidly around your empire if you don't blockade them well.

Of course, since in this case Dragonlord also has warp opening tech, it's vital to have a highly mobile defence fleet. There's no way to predict where exactly the attack will come any more, once that tech is in play. Which leads me to lesson four that I learned: Static defences are useless without ships to back them up. One of his attacking fleets hit a huge frontier world that I'd stocked with thirty weapons platforms, and before it was glassed they managed to take _one_ of his ships down to 50% damage. Maybe I just chose a bad mix of weapons, but in any event he could have chosen to simply bypass that planet and strike deeper into my territory instead.

Oh, lesson five; know thy enemy and defend in depth. Treaty or no treaty, I should have had observation ships and satellites a system or two deep beyond my borders. If your dear trusted ally refuses to allow you to place surveilance like that, start building your preemptive strike force immediately. :)
Man, it's been way too long since I read Sun Tzu. Maybe I should force myself to write an essay about SEIV and Sun Tzu before I play another PBW. I'll post it here if I do. :)
BTW, Dragon, I must express shock and dismay on behalf of the Irha-Nrr that you would think we had committed such an atrocity as to destroy the sun of an inhabited system. Nay, it is _you_ who are committing the atrocities; this very turn your fleet annihilated a defenceless Xiati homeworld that you had claimed only Last turn to be intent on "liberating" from my protection. Shame on you. :)

Oh, one Last gripe; I shouldn't have played a race as sensitive to civillian casualties as the Irha-Nrr in a game which had surrender disabled. I guess I'll just have to surrender the _hard_ way. :)

BeeDee10

July 20th, 2001, 10:53 PM

Drat, I forgot to mention one of the most important things I learned in this game; forget everything you learned when practicing against the AI. The AI sucks in ways that no human ever would, so by learning to beat the AI you're learning to make grievous errors when playing against a human.

This newbie game was extremely useful for me, I recommend something like it to everyone who's new to PBW. Just make sure you're psychologically prepared to get your *** handed to you at any moment (thus revealing a major oversight in strategy at the same time. :)

Phoenix-D

July 21st, 2001, 12:04 AM

In fairness, you probably would be having a better time if I hadn't pulled that stunt http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Having your ally, who just happens to be #3 in the game, vanish in a matter of turns..epsecially when my static-but-invisible defenses would have slowed Dragon down (minefields. Lots and lots of minefields) a bit..

EDIT: BD, you little.. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyway, I hit the "finished" button for my empire. The AI should take over what's left, so unless the Dragons and tzeech go at each other's throats, game's over. (remember victory condition DOES allow for peace)

Phoenix-D

[This message has been edited by Phoenix-D (edited 20 July 2001).]

BeeDee10

July 21st, 2001, 12:12 AM

Well, he blew through a 56-mine field down in Narcisston, so it might not have slowed him down much.

I agree that your stunt is what set him off, but I think it would have happened anyway. I was willing to share the universe, and I mistakenly believed him when he told me he was too. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

July 21st, 2001, 12:20 AM

Hah, Certadsh parinoria was good for once, eh? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon12.gif Sneaky little..Dragon was defintely the winner of this one.

I'm picturing the Irh-Nrr as a kinda of benevolent Rage right now, mainly because of that Last message..

Phoenix-D

The_General

July 21st, 2001, 12:35 AM

Just to let you all know that this PBW is cool. As far as RP goes, unless it's setup in the game design and part of the conditions of winning, then the RP should be replaced with PR = public relations. This is what I have been doing with both the Certadsh & Irha-nrr. After I walked into this game as a take over player, I evaluated the empire and divised a plan of PR. Since all of you, out ranked me in score, systems, ships, and resources, I decided on a appropriate number of ships to maintain. Then I converted all planet facilities not need to support my designed empire economics in research centers. I have focused heavily on completeing techs, and thru PR I have gained techs and bought time to gain better techs than some of you are cuurrently using.
This is a more detailed response to Dragons first comm to me earily in the game. I was not going to be a sitting duck for anyone. "You can come see me, but leave your guns with the doorman."

BeeDee10

July 21st, 2001, 12:47 AM

Heh. I've managed to swing a subjugation treaty with Dragonlord. First time I've ever been on the recieving end of one of those. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

My net resource production after tarrif is now exactly half of my maintenance expenditure, and I have zero reserves. Hopefully I've scrapped and mothballed enough junk that I won't lose massive chunks of fleet to neglect, but in any event there's no way I'd be able to field a force sufficient to stop Dragon from continuing his genocides.

The Irha-Nrr are infinitely patient and infinitely benevolent. We will wait quietly, humble servants of the Dragons, and perhaps one day yet we will find a way to make the galaxy safe for all life forms. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Dragonlord

July 21st, 2001, 03:55 AM

OK, time for my next response.
Seems like I have pretty much won the Newbie II game, with Beedee throwing the towel after the first hostilities. Frankly I had hoped he would put up more of a fight.

Regarding mines: I never send a fleet into hostile territory, especially territory that was been well developed for years, if I don't have the capacity to sweep 100 mines with that fleet.

Regarding my betrayal: like in any game, I play to win. In this specific game, the only way to win (because of victory conditions) was peace for 1.0 years. I have never actually won a game like that but I assume it means that if all races are at peace with each other (and all AI races have been eliminated) then after 10 turns he with the highest score wins. I could have tried the peacefull route, and in fact did for a while, but Beedee was keeping up with me every step of the way. In fact he was usually slightly in front, score wise. Therefore the peaceful route would not work, and I assume that he chose to role-play his race the way he did precisely because of the victory conditions.
Furthermore, we expected that he had the same plan as we did. Namely, strike a blow against the other to knock a few 100M points of his score, then make peace and wait 1 year. Circumstantial evidence pointed that way, his number of warships in space consistently kept in step with ours. Looked like an arms race. He also built a forward resupply space station in a nebulae next to my border, which was clearly intended for future fleets. So I don't entirely buy the story of having caught them completely unprepared and by surprise.

As for the Certadsh, I didn't know they were pulling out of the game till I got some hints from Beedee and read the details here. I still wonder why Phoenix did that, were you tired of your role in 3rd place?

To keep within the roleplaying (pacification of AI species, not killing civilians) We went along with this as much as possible (for amusement) it was a good storyline. The Irra-nur have kept up that role pretty consistently. We never suspected them in the blowing up of the star, we thought it was the "trick" the Certadsh spoke of, and really wondered how they pulled *that* off.

As for the Xiati homeworld: I did not remember to check the race of the colonists. All I saw was a single big Irrh-nur controlled planet in a very strategic system, your main forward resupply base. The Tzeech had also told us that you considered that planet to be very important.

The Irrh-nut still have some 90 warships unaccounted for, and I a bit wary that they may suddenly show up through a wormhole into my core systems.

The offer of a subjugation treaty puzzled me, but I jumped on it since it would give me all his ship designs plus minerals I can well use. The Tzeech suspect that this is but a temporary ploy, in order to buy time to regroup and use the impressive economic might of the Irrh-nur to build a fleet against us. (tough though while paying a 40% tariff). If BD thinks this is the next best thing to surrendering, why not just surrender? Here in the forum I mean, he could just say he gives up and we can stop playing.

For now we'll continue, and cautiously explore his systems while reaping the benefits from the subjugation treaty.
If what BD says is completely true, then not even a sudden alliance of all three humans against me could stop me now, I think...
And I don't think you can get the Tzeech to betray me, after all the tech I gave them and my fleets ready to pounce wherever it's necessary http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

And yes, the three-pronged attack against Irrh-nur systems was long in the planning. Initially as defensive forces, then as we grew we contemplated an attack. The original plan was to create a wormhole into a backdoor Certadsh system (assumedly badly defended) and proceed to wreak havoc there with our central fleet. Later, when we found out that the Certadsh weren't really a threat, we changed tactics. We coordinated our attack with the Tzeech, so that we would first draw Irrh-nur attention to one place, and two months later the Tzeech would invade on another front. This, I think, has been pretty succesful and also very entertaining to plan and execute :-)

Dragonlord

July 21st, 2001, 04:00 AM

Oh yes, one thing I forgot to respond too: the Irrh-nur have been building starbases like crazy,they had 22 while we had 8. We had no way of knowing if these were construction facilities or heavily armed wormhole defenders, so we got quite suspicious of Irrh-nur intentions.

BeeDee10

July 21st, 2001, 04:23 AM

You could've _asked_ what those space stations were. The Irha-Nrr tended to be very open, the only reason they ejected your cloaked scout ship was becaus you were being so suspiciously sneaky about it in the first place. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I built that nebula base because I'd misremembered which of the red nebula bitmaps was the "100% impenetrable" one and figured it'd never be seen, so why not? It was something I'd never done before in a "real" game, and I figured at some point in the far future if the Narcisston colonies immediately behind it got trashed I could use it as an emergency subsitute resupply point for my defences. Phoenix will vouch that I haven't even sent scout ships past that system since my first mapping foray in the first year or two of the game, he's been my partner the whole time and would have seen.

As for the victory conditions, I really didn't care who was first or second or whatever; I just wanted that year of peace to come about as soon as possible. The only time I ever care about the score when playing is when I'm worrying about triggering MEE, other than that it's a completely abstract and pointless number IMO. If you were so concerned about finishing that final year in "first place" I'd have been willing to gift you stuff until you got your wish. It's easy enough to pump your score to dizzying heights by just building big empty ship hulls. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I guess I was just RPing this one too much. That's why the subjugation treaty, too; I figured it'd buy the Irha-Nrr as much time as possible to continue stashing those "archive pods" all over space so that after they're destroyed there'll be a better chance they'll be able to restart again in the future. If you want to declare victory and end the game at this point, I'm willing.

Got a new race already playing a second game now that's explicitly intended to be RP-centric, so perhaps I'll do a little better. I'll be more careful about my defences this time, too. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

The_General

July 21st, 2001, 04:29 AM

So do we continue with the game under these new situations? Or are we declaring victory to DragonLord? And how does the end of the game process proceed? Do we continue playing out the turns or does the game just get closed?

CaptSpoogy

July 21st, 2001, 04:37 AM

That Dragonlord - he's just mopping up former first place Nostropholo in Newbie I. I'm not sure if he's going to turn on me next...

------------------
Visit the Spoogy Federation at:
http://spoogyfederation.tripod.com

Phoenix-D

July 21st, 2001, 04:46 AM

Two players- I hit the finished button, the AI should take over.

As far as the end game goes, your guess is as good as mine. I think "peace" means everyone wins though (damn that sounds trite http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif)

Phoenix-D

BeeDee10

July 21st, 2001, 04:51 AM

I'm willing to keep on playing, I guess there's always the chance of something unexpected happening. But at this point it all seems to be a matter of mopping up; I don't think I'll be able to build up enough equipment to do anything significant in a year's time, and there's only a handful of AI systems remaining to be pacified. Phoenix has devastated himself quite thoroughly too, and though the Tzeech may have good tech they don't have the resource base to do anything spectacularly disruptive (unless you're hiding a couple of sunbusters in there or something http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Dragonlord

July 21st, 2001, 05:03 AM

Beedee, I'm sorry, I guess 'm just more of an agressive schemer than you are :-)
No hard feelings? I sure don't want to get a reputation of a backstabbing schemer, I'm in another PBW game with 10 humans (now 5 left) and you can check there that I always stick with my allies. Although in that game I am now on the receiving end of allied betrayal... Hmm I did scheme there against my neighbor though, with two other humans against him. But he was just being too naive to trust me too far.. One thing I learned from that other PBW game is the concept of "checkerboard alliances" meaning that in such a crowded galaxy, your neighbors are your natural enemies, while the next neighbor over is your natural ally, and you always try to scheme with the next guy (so position 1 and 3 in a 1-2-3 line-up, cosmo-graphically) against number 2.

Oh, two more small things came to mind about Newbie II: BD, you complained about the destruction of a Xiati homeworld. But I just checked, for instance in Lundra there are two gas giants with 4000+ population, presumably ex-Eee homeworlds, under your control. If I click on them, I can't see of which race the population is made up...
So in the case of the homeworld in Tyrik, for all I know it contained Irra-nur settlers (which were an acceptable target within our role-playing constraints).

You also mentioned earlier you did not buy my excuse for the war declaration, the "military coup" that went on within the Dragon regime. I was trying to set up the roleplaying for that earlier, hoping I had given you enough hints. Remember the Messages about a faction in my government being pissed off at you for "policing the galaxy" ? And that I was barely able to keep them in line? That was a prelude to the military coup :-)

Oh and if score wasn't important to you, weren't you playing to win? What was your ultimate goal (outside of roleplaying) for this game?

I must say, you roleplayed well, consistently, and it was a great deal of fun. I have never spent so much time sending lengthy Messages to other players. I hope you enjoyed that as well, and once again, I hope there are no hard feelings. (No sore losers :-) We can start a new game where you can hand me my head on a platter http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

BeeDee10

July 21st, 2001, 05:59 AM

Oh, no hard feelings. I guess it's imposible not to feel a _little_ miffed when after 20 days or so of work one's empire gets trashed so quickly and completely, but in the final analysis it's just a game. Well played. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

The Xiati world was large with an oxygen atmosphere. If it was inhabited by Irha-Nrr, it would have been a domed colony and could only have held a population of 960M. But there were about 4000M present, so they couldn't have been Irha-Nrr. I guess it's an understandable oversight, but it happened to be an Irha-Nrr emotional hot button. When those people were wiped out was when I rolled over and gifted you everything; the Irha-Nrr would do anything to protect those lives, including surrender.

Probably why the Tzeech figured that planet was of such strategic importance to me. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

The thing I "didn't buy" about the coup was that the general who took charge afterward was the one who was wholly responsible for the attack on my territory; it was clear you'd massed those fleets on the borders for a while previously (including in Vintidrin right after we'd agreed to make it a demilitarized buffer http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif). I'm assuming of course that you were laying the blame for it on him; if not, then the misunderstanding was mine.

As for my goal, it was only what the Irha-Nrr had been spouting off about to everyone the entire time; I just wanted everyone to live in peace with each other and not commit genocides and stuff. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Now that the surprise of my stunning defeat has worn off, I think things wound up ending quite well all things considered. I've developed the "character" of the Irha-Nrr quite a bit more in this game than I did in all my previous single-player ones, and I think that in my next revision of them I'm going to record the events of this game in their general history.

It would probably have wound up a bit of an anticlimactic ending if we'd just mopped up the AIs and then run out the clock, after all. I'm just sorry I wasn't prepared enough to provide more fireworks in the finale. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Dragonlord

July 21st, 2001, 07:36 AM

Guys, I am confused now.
Are we continuing the Newbie II game or not?
Cause it will be a boring drag to micromanage the 25 or so planets I just got from BD, every single one of them scrapped till nothing was left standing on it http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

Phoenix, I assume you offered the Partnership treaty just so you can take a look at my empire?
Didn't you say you put the Certadsh and Irrh nur races on AI control?

Lost Dragon

BeeDee10

July 21st, 2001, 08:34 AM

Heh heh heh. I wasn't about to have you _profit_ so easily from your attack on me. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm a little confused too, perhaps we should take the discussion to the game's forum over on PBW? The strategy discussion seems to be dying down now.

CaptSpoogy

July 21st, 2001, 03:16 PM

Man, do you know what happened to Slargos in Newbie I? It's been more than 24hrs and I would like to get some turns in while I can...

------------------
Visit the Spoogy Federation at:
http://spoogyfederation.tripod.com

Dragonlord

July 21st, 2001, 07:29 PM

Spoogy, I've been wondering about same in Newbie I...maybe he gave up?
Why didn't the turn get auto-processed when we went over the deadline?

Phoenix-D

July 21st, 2001, 07:59 PM

Newbie 2- don't ask me what's going on, the AI's running the show. You're free to give up, obviously http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Newbie 1- I goofed with the turn settings; it wasn't on automatic. It is now.

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 21st, 2001, 09:13 PM

Phoenix, in Newbie II, your empire is indeed listed as "dead" meaning the AI took over for you. BD still seems to be in the game. Weird thing is, all three remaining players have uploaded their turns but it is not automatically processed...

Still not sure if we should bother to continue with this game. Beedee? General ? What do you think?

Phoenix-D

July 21st, 2001, 09:20 PM

ARG! It keeps "undeading" me http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 22nd, 2001, 04:44 AM

Can we all agree to stop sending in turns for Newbie II? I just sent in a turn but spent 5 minutes on it rather than the usual 40. It's no fun anymore now that my main opponent has given up.
Phoenix, if all agree, close the game.

I'm all for starting a discussion on the next (semi?)newbie game though. How would you like to see Newbie 3 configured, how would you change your race, etc. ?

Phoenix-D

July 22nd, 2001, 05:20 AM

Well, if BD is going to use the Irh-Nrr (if he's playing at all..) we should throw the Rage in there, just to watch the chaos http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Hotfoot

July 22nd, 2001, 05:26 AM

If you all are planning another newbie game, what would be the limit to how many people you would allow? And when would you plan on starting?

-Hotfoot
"Enter Prince Mortova..."

Phoenix-D

July 22nd, 2001, 05:47 AM

We'll see what everyone thinks. I'd like to keep em small though.. Fleetwars, a game I'm in with 8 players, is just taking too long per turn.

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 22nd, 2001, 06:48 AM

I'm in Letharg's PBW game, 10 humans and 10 AI's. Lots of fun, only marginally slower than our newbie games were. At top speed we did 3 turns a day, usually one a day, won't ever reach the record we had in Newbie I of 8 turns one night.

I'd say 6-8 players is about right, plus maybe another 6 AI races (non-neutral). AI on high difficulty, medium bonus. Intelligence disabled (due to 1.41 bug). Spiral arm Large galaxy. Starting with at least 3 planets, max 5 planets start. Good planet starting value, to get to the interesting stages faster. Victory conditions: 400% of second place player, or 1 year of peace after 5 years. 3000 racial points.

How does that sound? If you all like it I might host it myself. Invite any friends whom you know from other games , knowing that they roleplay well.

Dragonlord

July 22nd, 2001, 06:52 AM

Phoenix, it seems like in Newbie I the replacement for Baal is also giving up, he's missing turns. What do you suggest we do with this game, cause I know that at least Capt. Spoogy wants to continue it. Find another replacement? Set Nostro race to AI control?

BeeDee10

July 22nd, 2001, 09:22 PM

I think I'm ready to stick a fork in Newbie II as well. If the General's willing, then that's all of us. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I would indeed be interested in playing another newbie game, it'd be nice to test out some of the strategy that I've learned in the course of this one. But I'm not sure if it would be fair to call myself a _newbie_ now, and there are others who want in. Think I should?

Maybe I should try running one of these newbie games myself, come to think of it. Then I could be a newbie administrator. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

July 22nd, 2001, 09:34 PM

The game admin isn't that difficult, actually. It's all in the setup- once that is done, it pretty much runs itself.

Rematch perhaps? But with different settings, and no team mode?

I'm about ready to stick a fork in newbie *1* actually, since Dragon is in an overwhelming position again. I kinda got stuck with the cheap part of the galaxy http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 23rd, 2001, 02:56 AM

Phoenix, I agree, Newbie I is not much fun anymore either. My main fleet is glassing Baal's planets, another fleet is defending my frontier, and a third is in position in case Spoogy wanted to attack me.

I think I will set up a new game on PBW and invite you all. I'll post the game config shortly, I didn;t get much feedback here about how people would like it. I hope changes can still be made to a game config before the game starts.

Dragonlord

July 23rd, 2001, 03:35 AM

Guys, I have just configured a new game on PBW called "Spiralus". (hey, I ran out of imagination). I would like all of you from Newbie I and II to join in.
Here is the game description :

Spiralus takes place in a medium sized Spiral Arm.
This game is the succesor to the Newbie games, and probably best suited for intermediate PBW players.

Starting resources: 20000
Starting planets: 3
Home planet value: Good
Score display: Allied only
Technology level: Low
Racial points: 3000
Quadrant type: Spiral Arm
Quadrant size: Medium
Event frequency: Medium
Event severity: High
Technology cost: Medium
Victory conditions: 400% of second place player, or 1.0 years of peace, conditions apply after 6.0 years.
Maximum units: 1500
Maximum ships: 200
Computer players: Medium
Computer difficulty: High
Computer player bonus: Medium
Neutral empires: No
Other game settings: Intelligence is disabled because of the 1.41 CI bug. 3000 racial points so you can tweak your race just how you want it, without having too many abilities. Remember to reduce "cunning" to 50%. We have a low-tech start so make your early strategic research decisions well.

The_General

July 23rd, 2001, 04:28 AM

Hey folks, just read the Posts and will stop sending turns in on NewbieII game, and DragonLord, I will get in on your game. I'm also working on a game. It will be called "King of the Cosmos". Not finished yet with the custom map and AI designs. Once finished, the goal is for the players to work they're way thru the cosmos against other players, AI, and system traps to take control of a single sphereworld. No intellegence, warp weapons, cloaking, killing off of AI or other players. I'll try to get it finished soon.

Phoenix-D

July 23rd, 2001, 04:34 AM

Uh, Dragon, isn't that ship limit kinda low? Considering the fleets that were being thrown around in Newbie 1, let alone 2..

I just hit "finished" for each race in Newbie 2. That SHOULD end the game.

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 23rd, 2001, 04:48 AM

Phoenix, yes I'm a bit worried about that ship limit too now. But I don't think there's a way to change it now, short of scrapping the game and creating a new one?
Then again, so far in none of my PBW games have I had more than 200 ships in play, I wouldn't be able to support it. And given the map used for Spiralus, unless you have real bad luck, you shouldn't need more than two fleets to defend your borders.

Also, do you know what the Statistics display on the game admin screen is for exactly? does that function work? I checked all the checkboxes (except for Intel) just in case, so you can keep tabs on how your allies are doing.

Phoenix-D

July 23rd, 2001, 04:59 AM

Haven't seen the stats stuff myself.

As for changing the game settings- you do that in SE4. The PBW description is just text, you have to set everything up in SE4 then submit the first turn. Don't forget the password!

Phoenix-D

Dragonlord

July 23rd, 2001, 05:38 AM

Great, I will up the unit limit to 2500 and the ship limit to 500 or so. How exactly do I distribute the first turn? All I have now is a Spiralus.gam file. Does a button get enabled on the PBW site or such, when we have 7 players?

BTW we are doing nicely, we already have 4 out of 7 players within hours. If you know any good players from other games you are in, especially ones who roleplay well and don't always wait to the Last minute for turn uploads, please invite them to this game. I already convinced "Shoujo" from another game to join.
Once we get started I think I'll start another thread on this forum so we can discuss our game here. I think Shrapnel is faster and easier to use than the forums on PBW, and I check here every day anyway.
Besides I don't think people would mind, we know some of them even follow this thread even though they weren't in any of the Newbie games.

Dragonlord

July 23rd, 2001, 05:49 AM

Just took a look, it appears I can't open up the game I created and edit it, I'd have to re-create it with the same settings except for the unit/ship limit. No problem.

If I have to do that anyway, are there any other changes desired? I'm in doubt about score display, either allied or all. "All" has it's pro's and con's, but with intel turned off maybe that would compensate a bit.

Bear in mind that on this map you are less likely to be dealing with 5 neighbors at the same time (like we did in the Letharg game, Shoujo), so comm channels become more valuable as trade items. Being centrally located will give you the benefit of multiple trade treaties to grow quickly, but will make you a target later on as people have to pass through you to get to the other side of the galaxy.

I am using a map that I once generated in the random generator and liked so much that I saved it. Yes, that gives me the advantage of knowing the map beforehand, but I'm ancient race anyway so I don't think it matters.