Sophistry - (Finished) Winner DrPraetorious!

[Velusion]

Sophistry

Status Page: http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/stats.php?game=Sophistry (pending)

Game Type: TCP/IP (static server)
Speed: 24 hours per host for the first 24 turns moving to 48 hours per host after that. Quickhost enabled.
Era: Early
Players: 22 (all) – or however many we get.
Start: Nations will be assigned when we are filled, or 72 hours – whichever is first. The game will start 48-72 hours after nations are posted or when all nations are uploaded.
Nation Selection: Random with exceptions (see below)
Map: 16 provinces per player pre-generated map (304/46 land/sea). Download here: http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/Sophistry.zip
Victory Conditions: 225 out of 350 (~65%) provinces controlled, or the surrendering of all other players.
Hall of Fame: 15
Renaming: On
Everything Else: Defaults
Masterpass: Enabled
Length: If you aren’t eliminated this game might last 6+ Months. Be prepared!
Mods: Big-Game v1.1 Mod here: http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/bg11.zip

Yomi: Velusion
Ermor: Baalz
Marverni: Sensori
R'lyeh: Jazzepi
Atlantis: Lingchih
Vanheim: AreWeInsaneYet
Kailasa: Methal
Sauromatia: Kojusoki
Neifelheim: DrPreatorious
Mictlan: BigDisAwesome
Abysia: coobe
Arcoscephale: Salamander8
Tir na n'Og: EarthRaver
Oceania: Sandman
Ulm: tibbs
C'tis: MAJ_Disgrace
Agartha: Nix
Pangaea: Saint_Dude
Caelum: Zolharm
T'ien Ch'i: Rytek
Helheim: FAJ

Nation Selection: Once the game is full I will randomly assign nations out. When signing up players may request up to THREE nations they DON’T want. These are nations you DO NOT want to play. Sign up in this thread.

After nations are assigned I’ll need you to email your pretender password to velusion(at)sbcglobal.net or PM me. This is because I’ve had issues with the Master Password working in the past AND so we can give your nation to another human player if you disappear. This is not optional. If you PM me your password make sure and include your email address if you would like to be included in the diplomacy email distribution list or want email notifications when turns host.

Once I have your password I’ll send you the ip/port of the server where you can upload your pretender. Once everyone is uploaded I’ll add you to the game turn email notification list (unless you specify otherwise). Then the game starts.

Quickhost will be enabled. The first 24 turns will be set to have a 24 hour autohost – so expect to do at least a turn a day for the first few weeks. After that the timer will increase to 48 hours though it is hoped that players will normally still be able to play every 24 hours, with the occasional missed day. As turns take longer in late game this might increase further. As players get eliminated we can be more flexible with extensions and extended absences, but not in the first couple weeks.

The map has been tweaked to ensure (hopefully) that all players that start on land have at least four land neighbors and all players that start at sea have 3 sea neighbors. All the major seas are connected so that separated sea provinces connect to each other across straits (hence all seas that look like they should be connected are linked). All the larger landmasses are linked across the straits as well. If we do not fill, we will be using a smaller map.

Players who wish to surrender (resign) should simply let me know so we can find a replacement or turn the nation to computer controlled. If you will be unavailable for longer than a few days please let me know. Failing to do you turn twice a in a row without letting us know will get you put on AI. If I think you are missing too many turns (e.g. 3 out of the last 6) I will put you on AI. Once (*ahem* - If) I am eliminated I’ll rely on the remaining players to tell me when something needs done with the game.

General rules to follow in my games can be found here:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=d3maars&Number=507308&fpar t=&PHPSESSID=
I recommend you read them if you haven’t already.

House Rules: There are specific endgame related issues that apply to larger Dom3 games that I have come to dread. There will be a simple Big Game Mod (v1.1) that will be used for this game that will tweak a few end-game aspects.

These changes are not up for debate in this thread. If you don’t like these changes – please make another thread somewhere else to complain.

Big Game Mod Changes:
Arcane Nexus will cost 300 Astral Pearls to cast
Clam of Pearls will require a path 2 (instead of 1) in Nature Magic (Water will stay the same). This will increase the cost to forge.
Fever Fetishes will require a path 2 (instead of 1) in Fire Magic (Nature will stay the same). This will increase the cost to forge.
(New in v1.1)Blood Stone will require a path 3 (instead of 2) in Earth Magic (Blood will stay the same). This will increase the cost to forge.

If we get less than 14 people we will not use this Mod.

[Velusion]

Velusion - No Preferences
Baalz - No Preferences
Sensori - No Oceania or R'lyeh

[Jazzepi]

Sign me up, now now now now.

Nations I don't want...

Mictlan
T'ien Chi
Atlantis

Thanks,
Jazzepi

[Lingchih]

I'll join.

No Mictlan.

Glad to see another Velusion game.

[AreWeInsaneYet]

no yomi, marverni or ulm. in.

[Velusion]

The map was slightly updated. If you already downloaded it - please get it again. This should be the final copy. Thanks!

[Baalz]

Hey Vel, thanks for the rockin' job you do hosting. I'd be remiss as I join my 10th game hosted by you if I didn't mention what a professional job you do supporting my habit. Seeing as how we're spitting distance in RL, let me know if you're ever a few hour's south in H-town so I can buy you a beer - or three.

[Hurst]

I'm in too, this sounds like fun. I'm not picky on the races, I'll take any.

[Kojusoki]

hello Velusion, thanx for hosting again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
No ULM please and no Marveni

[BigDisAwesome]

Count me in
no Ry'leh
no Lanka
no Oceania

[fungalreason]

I'll join. I haven't played much multi-player yet, but it sounds like fun.

No R'lyeh, Atlantis, or Oceania for me please.

Edit: Actually nevermind... going on vacation soon for the 4th, and I don't want to hold up the first few turns.

[Salamander8]

I think I'm becoming addicted to MP games *twitch* and must join another! *twitch*

No Pangaea. No Tir'Nan'Og. No Vanheim. Thanks.

[EarthRaver]

give me any random nation. Im here to absorb experience. Guys anyone know of any ways to prevent my hero or god from dieing?or is it inevitable?

[Velusion]

EarthRaver said:
Guys anyone know of any ways to prevent my hero or god from dieing?or is it inevitable?



I'm afraid you're going to need to be more specific with that one... lol.

[EarthRaver]

i hate been cursed,who to avoid so they can have less chance of been cursed and i want to ask how to prevent affictions?any hints?

[Velusion]

EarthRaver said:
i hate been cursed,who to avoid so they can have less chance of been cursed and i want to ask how to prevent affictions?any hints?



Check out the Dominions3 FAQ that has a section on avoiding being cursed:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=505733&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

However if you use a combat pretender assume he will probably be cursed eventually. Not much you can do to avoid that.

[BigDisAwesome]

What Velusion said.
If you use a combat pretender, eventually he's gonna die. It's always sad when it happens, but it's gonna happen.

[EarthRaver]

and guys how do i find a reliable ally to make alliance with?

[BigDisAwesome]

Be a people person. You'll figure it out.

[Sandman]

I'll play. I don't want Ulm.

[Baalz]

Heh, diplomacy is quite a deep subject that you might have better luck posting in the general forum, but FWIW most people tend to make a good faith effort to follow through with agreements - BUT...

some people just plain don't
some people are in multiple games and forgot what they agreed to
some people have a different opinion on the details of what they agreed to

and finally

Many people are playing for a win so always remember that most alliances will not last longer than they benefit both partners insofar as they're both trying to win.

So to sum it up, you'll have no problem finding reliable allies as long as you're strong enough to have a big stick, but not so strong that you look like you're about to win. Outside of that having high expectations of your allies is just going to be a frustrating experience.

Obviously I speak in generalities, so take it for what it's worth.

[Jazzepi]

EarthRaver said:
and guys how do i find a reliable ally to make alliance with?



The best advice I can give is to talk to people as much as possible. The silent guy that just establishes a 3 turn NAP and then never says anything is an easier person to betray then the guy you've been chatting friendly with for the past 15 turns.

Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.

Jazzepi

[tibbs]

I love Velusion's games so I MUST sign up! I have no preferences.

[BigDisAwesome]

tibbs said:
I love Velusion's games so I MUST sign up! I have no preferences.


I'm gonna take this moment to thank you also Velusion.
You're a helluva host. If you ever find yourself in Ohio, drinks are on me.

[Salamander8]

BigDisAwesome said:

tibbs said:
I love Velusion's games so I MUST sign up! I have no preferences.


I'm gonna take this moment to thank you also Velusion.
You're a helluva host. If you ever find yourself in Ohio, drinks are on me.


I'm still new to the MP scene, but this will be my 3rd game you are hosting Velusion. If you ever come up near Milwaukee, Wisconsin, give us a yell. Loving these games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif

[Velusion]

Ack, I need to start traveling for work again! Sounds like it would help my liquor tab... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Lingchih]

Salamander8 said:

BigDisAwesome said:

tibbs said:
I love Velusion's games so I MUST sign up! I have no preferences.


I'm gonna take this moment to thank you also Velusion.
You're a helluva host. If you ever find yourself in Ohio, drinks are on me.


I'm still new to the MP scene, but this will be my 3rd game you are hosting Velusion. If you ever come up near Milwaukee, Wisconsin, give us a yell. Loving these games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/beerglass.gif



Many thanks indeed Velusion. If you are ever in Irving... oh wait, never mind. I might actually have to pay up on that.

[coobe]

I would join, i play anything except Pangaea

[MAJ_Disgrace]

I would like to sign up. My preference is Ulm, but I'll play any nation

[Nix]

I'll sign up, since my career in my other game seems to be winding down...

I'll take anyone but Vanheim or Helheim.

[Saint_Dude]

I would like to join.

No Kailasa please.

[Zolharm]

I would like to join.
I don't want paly:
R'leyh
Oceania
Ulm

[Velusion]

Today is the last day for signups in this game! I'll post the nation assignments once the game fills the last two remaining spots or late tonight (whichever is first).

[Rytek]

i would like to sighn up. No Ry'leh or Oceania

[Velusion]

Read em and weep! The front post is updated with the nation assignments.

I'll give you the IP and port once I get your password. Then you can upload your pretender.

[Jazzepi]

I downloaded the attached zip, and it only has the TGA file in it. I put it into my map file, but I can't play it from the single player map selection. I wanted to mess around with it a little to get a feel for the number of water oceans.

Oh, and does anyone understand EA Ry'leh at all? I mean who the [censored] gets stationary priests?!

Jazzepi

[Velusion]

the .map file is not needed to play this game- but if you are interested - here it is.

IF you find any blatant errors let me know.

http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/Sophistrymapfile.zip

[Lingchih]

Hail Atlantis!

"Way down, below the oceans, where we may be, the antedeluvian seas"... Or somesuch, courtesy of Donovan ( I should have thoroughly confused anyone born after 1969 or so).

I have no freaking idea how to play this nation. Should be fun.

[Jazzepi]

Hey I'm right there with you. Ry'leh is freaky weird.

Jazzepi

[Salamander8]

Hooboy Arco. Probably number 4 or 5 on my "not wanted" list had it been larger than 3. I'll have to make a test game to even know what EA Arco has for sites and mages.

[coobe]

Lanka for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif heard good stuff about it, but never played a blood hunting and reanimating nation serious before.....

[Sensori]

Never played Marverni before. Well, it ought to be fun enough finding out how to play 'em.

[Nix]

Niefelheim?! Geez, I knew I'd forgotten one of the heims... Scandinavian folklore is so uninspiring http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif *hides from the developers*

[Jazzepi]

With a proper bless you can inspire fear in the hearts of your enemies. How's that for inspiring?!

Jazzepi

[AreWeInsaneYet]

VANheim. that is, heim people AGAIN.
OUCH.

that hurts, indeed. only if we can list four or five unwanted nations..

[Velusion]

I'm fine if people want to trade nations...

Also I think it was Agatha that wasn't taken... If someone really wants that... (heh)

[Nix]

Yeah, I'll take the frogs. At least if I lose it'll be expected.

[Jazzepi]

Does anyone ever really *want* to get Agatha?

Jazzepi

[Velusion]

Nix said:
Yeah, I'll take the frogs. At least if I lose it'll be expected.



Ok I changed your nation setting from the front page. Niefelheim is not in play at the moment then.

[Lingchih]

Holy... somebody's giving away Niefelheim? Well, ahem, I guess I should take it then, just to be fair and all.

I won't though. I'm playing them already in another game, and these little fish guys kind of look like fun. I need to broaden my paying base anyway.

[Salamander8]

With all the people refusing R'Lyeh I was hoping to get them myself. I've been trying some experiments with the evil fishies in an SP game I have been playing on the side, and was hoping to expand that in an MP game.

I'll give Arco a try and see how it goes.

[BigDisAwesome]

Mictlan!?
Well, I guess it's time to learn how to use a blood hunting nation. Anyone have Baalz number? I'll be putting him on speed dial.

[DrPraetorious]

I'm playing Helheim in another game, so I'll take Niefelheim.

Death to all of you!

--TNDP

[Velusion]

Now its Helheim that is unclaimed.

[tibbs]

Salamander8 said:
With all the people refusing R'Lyeh I was hoping to get them myself. I've been trying some experiments with the evil fishies in an SP game I have been playing on the side, and was hoping to expand that in an MP game.

I'll give Arco a try and see how it goes.



Arco is pretty good. Awesome protection on their soldiers. Spellcasters that can lure commanders and assasinate them and chariots, which are work pretty well against glamoured nations.

Also their pegasus riders rock.

[DrPraetorious]

The topic says we've started?

Are we ready to upload pretenders? I don't see a port #.

[Velusion]

Send me your password (and email if you want notifications) and I'll deliver unto you the IP/Port. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Velusion]

Still waiting on the following player's passwords:

Micah
Hurst
Sandman
Zolharm

[Lingchih]

Any idea when this game will be starting?

[Jazzepi]

I haven't gotten port # yet and I sent in my stuffs.

Jazzepi

[Velusion]

We will start in 24 hours.

I still need the following to upload their gods:

Rytek
coobe
tibbs
BigDisAwesome
Jazzepi

I still need a password from:
Hurst

We will be starting in 24 hours, unless you ask for an extension. If I don't hear from you at all you are SOL...

[Jazzepi]

Uploaded.

Let's do this.

Jazzepi

[tibbs]

Uploaded

[BigDisAwesome]

and done

[Rytek]

I have not recieved a port number

[Velusion]

Rytek said:
I have not recieved a port number



Sorry about that Rytek - I responded to your message but got a "message could not be delivered" later and didn't realize it.

I forwarded my original reply again to you with the info.

[Velusion]

I found a replacement for Hurst who never responded to any messages - Methal will be taking over Kalisia

Also FAJ will be taking Helhiem and has upload his god.

Once Kalisia is uploaded we are only waiting on coobe/Lanka.

[Velusion]

I'm going to give coobe another few hours, but I'm starting the game before I go to sleep! It's already been well over four days since I announced the nations...

[lch]

He's on IRC quite often and he is on UTC/GMT +2 hours, so give him some time... Have you tried PM / emailing him?

[Velusion]

lch said:
He's on IRC quite often and he is on UTC/GMT +2 hours, so give him some time... Have you tried PM / emailing him?



I emailed him earlier today. I have 20 other people ready to start however, and the deadline is well past. I'll give him a little while longer though...

[lch]

Well, to us "today" is just starting... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
If he doesn't respond within 12 hours then he has to take the blame for that, true.

[Lingchih]

I can wait til tomorrow, if need be, to have a fuller game. Let's give him a little more time.

[Velusion]

We have started!

[Velusion]

Stats Page is up: http://67.66.187.69/dominions3/stats.php?game=sophistry

As usual ignore the "missed turn" messages until after the first hosting.

[tibbs]

Good luck, girls!

[Jazzepi]

*squee*

Jazzepi

[Rytek]

Sigh, my very first multiplayer game and I get unrest in the home province on turn 2. Not to mention 2 of my surrounding provinces are elephants and the other 2 heavy calvary. At least my army didnt get wiped by the calvary first turn. Now the question is, do I hit those elephants now while my 11 WOFE have 18 health or do I bring my army back to the capitol to squash the unrest and reinforce?

[Nix]

The capitol income is really infinitely more valuable than any province.

[DrPraetorious]

At this stage of the game I'd fix your capital, yeah.

Unless you have a neighbor province with an income of 120 or something (does happen).

[Velusion]

How much unrest are we talking about? If it 30 or less dropping your tax down to 0 for only one turn should clear it up (sucks but gets it over with quick).

[Baalz]

Yeah, I don't know why, but when I take any misfortune (even at 1 or 2) I disproportionately get unrest on turn 2 in my capital (maybe it has to do with other scales I typically take). Often it's ~50 (got 90 once!) and it takes a couple turns of no money to rectify, which really hurts at turn 2. After a couple times of that happening I'm rather misfortune averse...

Oh well, that's one of the things about a game like Dominions, it's so complex that there are a whole lot of things that can kick you in the nuts through no real fault of your own...whether it's Bogus camping out on your capital, your SC getting feebleminded from one unlucky point of damage or 4 people ganging up on you. Keeps things interesting though!

[Rytek]

33 unrest. I dropped tax to 50 and went for the elephants. Which was most likely a mistake as thinking about it now, im not sure if i was going to win the fight. I was relying a whole lot on some fancy scripting. Tsun Tsu would not be proud. That will teach me to do a turn at 0500.

[AreWeInsaneYet]

The same thing happened to me. 50 unrest on the second turn. PAIN!

[Rytek]

Lady luck must favor the bold. There were 13 elephants in that independant nation. They stomped all over my pikeman, killed em to the man, but they broke in the end and killed their own army.

[lch]

Pfffffft, in Eventide I had the plague on turn 2 - 50% pop loss on my capital. Before I hit turn 20 I had the plague again in my capital, which made my capital have less population then some of the other provinces around me. Your little unrest for some turns is a blessing compared to that.

That told me not to take death 3 misfortune 3 anymore... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Methel]

Why arent you all doing you're turns(faster)? Feed my addiction please http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

[DrPraetorious]

I hope Abyssia doesn't stale http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

[Methel]

Nice to see Im not the only one who wants to put another s in Abysia http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Sensori]

Hmm, my position seems rather un-nice. Two people right next to me (and when I say right next to me, I mean I'm like 2 provinces away from one and 4-5 away from another one)... I'm getting stuck. ;p And that unrest event in mah home didn't help.

Buhuu!

[DrPraetorious]

I'm doing quite poorly. I decided to be a high roller and went fortune/turmoil, and I've got no money events yet - on top of that, I lost one of my three niefel-giant conquest forces (ordinarily more than adequate) to a bunch of wind masters with orb lightning, and now Sauromatia has the province.

[Rytek]

Ahh, I wondered how you lost your "thug" on the hof. I have misfortune 2 and have had 3 good money events after my initial turmoil in home province. go figure. 2 500g back to back.

[Velusion]

*@*#*$**%*^(#*!!!!

Don't you just hate it when you think you gave orders to both commanders but only your site searching god goes to attack and gets wiped out?

!!@#%@#%@*@!!!

[DrPraetorious]

That is highly inconvenient.

[Lingchih]

Yeah, I have that problem sometimes with stealthy troops. I always wonder what they were doing. Sitting in the woods watching the fight, placing bets maybe?

[tibbs]

Whoever needed the shield from us, send us a PM. We forgot who requested it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Ulm

[Rytek]

lol, it was me. i sent you the gems. Tien Chi

[Micah]

Hey guys, I'm going to bow out of this one due to some confusion over getting my turns covered while I was out of town.

Coobe has agreed to sub for me though, so all should be well. I'll be back soon.

-Micah/Abysia

[BigDisAwesome]

So...would it be possible to hold hosting back 1 day? I've an unexpected trip come up for this weekend. I'll be leaving Sunday morning, and I'll be back Monday evening. So at the most you should only have to delay the hosting by 12 hours, and if the hosting time happens within the couple hours right before I leave there shouldn't be any delay necessary.

Sorry for being a pain, I didn't expect to be going anywhere when I signed up.

[Velusion]

Send me a PM to remind me right before you leave BigDisAwesome.

[coobe]

Greetings from the new Lord of Abysia. Diplomatic conversations are very welcome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[BigDisAwesome]

Can do, thanks Velusion.

[Rytek]

This has been a very fast game with the turns so far.

[Sensori]

The best part of this entire thing was that Helheim actually sent a message when he was starting, stating that he thought that he might actually lose in this rush. Yeah, against Marverni. Heh heh. Doesn't get any crazier than that my friends.

Indeed, this will be a very fast game for me. Mostly because Helheim is rushing my ***. Oh well, at least I can try to ruin his countryside before dying.

But it was a nice, uh, lil over dozen of turns. Anyone want gems, no strings attached? Not giving them to Helheim obviously. ;p

[Saint_Dude]

Hehe!

We, the nation of Pangaea, are Helheim's other neighbor (or at least one of them). We spotted them and their border with Maverni on turn 4 or so (about 4 provs from our capital). We have been so paranoid of a Helheim rush ever since that we have sacrificed expansion for the sake of magic research (must get area effect spells ASAP). Now that we have nearly reached a "comfortable" level of research, we find out that they have another target.

[Velusion]

Sensori,

You can always send them over to yomi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Sensori]

Heh, I didn't sacrifice expansion because I knew I'd die anyway if he chooses to show up. Pangaea at least has nice blessable units at its disposal, while Marverni is the epitome of mediocrity.

But you should still be wary Saint_Dude, cuz once he's done with me, I bet he's coming after you. ;p

And sure, I'll send half of my gems to Yomi. Who wants the other half?-D

[Lingchih]

Well, since your are so generously offering, Atlantis would like the other half.

[FAJ]

You make me sound like the big bad wolf. I had already chalked this up as a loss due to my own mismanagment.

I have never played Helheim before, and I really have no clue what I am doing. You are higher than me on all the graphs, so I dont know why you are being so pessimistic. I was just about to make the "who wants my gems" contigency post :/.

[Nix]

It's really amazing how everyone is trembling in the face of Helheim, even when it barely registers on the score graphs. Agartha, for one, takes offense at Helheim's refusal to respond to its peace overtures, and considers its silence a precursor to invasion. This impression is reinforced by Helheim's unprovoked attack on Marverni.

Therefore, Agartha demands that Helheim pay it tribute immediately, lest it feel the wrath of the Pale Ones!

(I enjoy playing against character)

[FAJ]

I responded immidiataly to you! I was very polite too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Perhaps you overlooked my message?

[Nix]

Hmm... polite, you say. Very well. I must say I didn't see any message though, though I did search for one on that turn.

[FAJ]

Now that I think of it, I may have forgot to resend it when I redid that turn.

I keep going back and redoing turns because I keep making stupid mistakes, only to realize them later. I had even offered you my gem stores for the failure contingency.

Darn, and I thought we had an NAP going too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

[Salamander8]

Now that I think of it, I may have forgot to resend it when I redid that turn.


Man, I hate it when I do that! Or when I log onto a game to check on the situation and I accidently click:redo from start.

[Sensori]

You know FAJ, being higher than you in all the graphs means nothing when it's Marverni versus Helheim. Helheim's sacreds are bazillion times better than anything Marverni can come up with, which are mediocre regular units with nothing special on their side. The situation I'm in is comparable to Niefelheim attacking me, there's nothing I could do to win now. See also how I lost a fight with 100 of my units against SIX of your blessed guys supported by your cap defense? That's the difference in quality here.

Couple that with the fact that my researchers suck ***, and you claiming that you might actually lose this fight is a damn insult. ;p

[DrPraetorious]

You should send half of your gems to niefelheim, since we're the only ones that can oppose helheim.

[FAJ]

Well, your defensive campaign isnt looking as good this turn as it did last, you sent only a portion of your forces against my capital, which was a choice I didn't see comming. Even without the sacreds patrolling I think the 30 pd could have handled it.

By the way, i wasn't trying to insult you or anything. I legitimatly have no clue how to play the heims. I am an Abysia/Yomi sort of guy; not used to using a bless strategy. I don't even remember what god I took :\.

[Sensori]

Heh, I meant an insult against my intellect, and I didn't really mean anything with it, heh. ;p Thing is, Marverni just doesn't stand a chance against bless strat nations. Marverni's more of a mid/late bloomer. I attacked you with like two thirds of my force, with the last third trying to do something else. Especially since it was nowhere near your cap, and I knew both groups couldn't stand a chance against your main army, even combined.

But I don't think your PD alone could've done it, my guys were actually making progress against them. I was sort of hoping all I'd meed was PD, but... Well. :////

But how can you underestimate your troops so badly that you'd think you could lose against friggin MARVERNI. Now that's some kind of new low. It's like a full grown man in his prime wondering if a newborn baby could actually beat him in a fist fight and fearing defeat! ;p At least I underestimated my troops as Niefelheim when I was against Abysia, which is supposed to be like ten times stronger at the beginning than Marverni. ;ppp

(This is not a serious post, although factually it may be true.)

[Sensori]

DrPraetorious said:
You should send half of your gems to niefelheim, since we're the only ones that can oppose helheim.



Sorry man, Atlantis said he wants it first. :/

But I'll send the gems to you guys in a few turns when I've gotten as many of 'em as possible, and before I'm actually dead and buried.

[Lingchih]

Yeah, Marverni has some serious problems. I'd like to see them jazzed up in a future update. Marverni against a bless rush in the early game = ex-Marverni. Still, it sounds like FAJ doesn't know how to do a bless rush, so maybe??

[Sensori]

Well, every time my troops meet his I die, so maybe not. ;p I think his problem is/was that he wasn't exactly certain on how it's supposed to work against certain nations. On Marverni, it, most obviously, works quite well.

[Sandman]

This game is certainly moving quickly.

Marveni is a dud nation at the best of times, against Helheim, they've no hope at all.

[FAJ]

I have never fought Marverni before acrtually. I always end up allying with them, actually. It looked like you could get a massive amount of def 15, prot 12 guys pretty quickly. I am used to playing races with expensive troops, so when I see 100 troops that don't look like fodder, I shivver. That, and friggen barbarians destroyed my sacreds, giving me a bad impression of them.

And Ling, I indeed have no clue how to bless rush. Its just something I have never tried; and I didn't design my god around it. I just decided to try being aggressive early when I saw that out capitals were so close together. That, and I figured that if I failed, I could get into another game; with Abysia http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif. Its my favorite race and I havent been them in MP for too long http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

[Sensori]

Sandman said:

Marveni is a dud nation at the best of times, against Helheim, they've no hope at all.



This early Marverni really is a dud nation, but it can get pretty strong later on...

Too bad I won't be here to see it. ;p

[Methel]

I think marverni gets a boost in the next patch.
Seems that way from the update notes anyways.

[Sensori]

I don't think Marverni getting a boost later is such a big help for me right now.

You know, Marverni needs some of that Asterix powar drink!

[Rytek]

To C'tiss; ouch. You must have laughed out loud when you saw that battle. I was trying to avoid those chariots.

[Kojusoki]

Sauromatia switched to AI - have fun:)
We hoped we will not be close to Giantas or Hellheim http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Kojusoki]

Sauromatia switched to AI - have fun:)
We hoped we will not be close to Giantas or Hellheim http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[DrPraetorious]

That's no Good. He still had a chance to win against me!

Ah well. That's how the cookie crumbles, I suppose.

[BigDisAwesome]

Velusion!? I sent you an email and everything, but you forgot to set the server back so I wouldn't stale. I was only 7 hours late too.

[Sensori]

Well, still roaming Helheim's countryside, pillaging here and there, burning down his random event labs, maxing unrest with 200% taxation and so on while he's trying to hunt me down. At least he'll probably remember the day he messed with Marverni. ;p

[BigDisAwesome]

I like to see people play it out to the bitter end like that Sensori.
I usually try to, but normally it's just so I can be a thorn in the side for as long as possible. I got rushed by Helheim in the Ludus game and was down to my capitol by turn 12, but I used my sage to research up to Conjuration 3 ASAP so I could spam Call of the Winds so that he couldn't destroy my castle. I lasted another 20-30 turns like that. It was pretty funny.

[FAJ]

Was I so evil that you need to salt the earth behind you?

[EarthRaver]

wheres the market i would like to buy some equipment.

[Jazzepi]

FAJ said:
Was I so evil that you need to salt the earth behind you?



He was just trying to help you grow asparagus.

Jazzepi

[AreWeInsaneYet]

BigDisAwesome said:
I like to see people play it out to the bitter end like that Sensori.




And it's funny for me too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif . I've never tried any MP before Ludus, and I feel that I owe you a sorry. Your actions' rather impressive, and I must admit that at that time I have absolutely no idea who's gonna be the winner. I raised taxes in all my provinces to 200 in case I lose...now that is something you dunno http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif It's fear drive me into a war with you in Ludus. I can still remember that someone said Caelum's unstoppable if they are not stopped in the first ten turns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Jazzepi]

Ry'leh is offering Nature/Earth/Fire/Air gems in exchange for water gems on a one:one basis.

Jazzepi

[DrPraetorious]

I'll sell water gems for research items, if you can make those. Otherwise, no thanks.

[Jazzepi]

Not at the moment, sorry.

Jazzepi

[Rytek]

nm I went and bought a usb wireless for my pc which im lugging along. wish I had thought of that sooner.

[Lingchih]

Get your scrying spells ready, and equip those scouts with underwater gear. It's time for The War Under the Waves: Atlantis vs. R'lyeh!

Wagers can be placed at all of your favorite betting halls. Early lines are favoring R'lyeh 2:1, but Atlantis has a ringer, in the Insipid Azathoth.

[FAJ]

I was under the impression that if Azathoth wakes up, it is the end of the universe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Lingchih]

He's not quite awake. We keep him partially sedated at all times. He's still pretty dangerous, even in that condition though.

[Jazzepi]

Last call for a cauldron of broth, or wine skins. I'll pay the cost of forging the items in nature gems, plus an additional 1 gem for each wine skin, or an additional 3 gems for a cauldron of broth. I have every gem type except for blood slaves to offer as trade.

Jazzepi

[DrPraetorious]

I suppose that I can trade supply items - but I'm only really interested in research items, not in gems.

[Lingchih]

Don't worry Jazzepi. I can help with your supply problems.

[Jazzepi]

How kind of the people of Atlantis to offer their God as food for our endless hordes. I'm sure our brainless chaff will be unable to express their thanks, but rest assured, he will be remembered.

Num, num.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

I think Baalz staled the last two turns, and may do so again this one. Could we find a replacement, or just set him to AI if he's in a bad way?

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

I sent half of all of the gems I had a couple of turns back to Yomi and Atlantis, as they had asked for them first. It was a relatively large amount of them, about a hundred gems of varying types went to both. And now, as death draws closer, I still have some gem income in a besieged fortress. I'm sending the last bits I get to someone whom I consider most deserving, rather than people who managed to say "I want them" first. ;p

And mwahhhahhaa, I managed to pillage at least a couple of regular high income (and high resource) provinces in Helheim's lands. My only regret is that I didn't manage to pillage Marverni itself. And Agartha, you're gonna love that fortress province. You'll get Wizards from there. Or Enchancers or Warrior Mages, depending what you want. Those trump the crappy Jaguar Tribe Priests you'd get from there regularily.

[Baalz]

Sorry, I'm back. I was out of town and my laptop (which I was taking turns on the rest of the week) died. Shouldn't stale anymore.

[Lingchih]

Jazzepi said:
How kind of the people of Atlantis to offer their God as food for our endless hordes. I'm sure our brainless chaff will be unable to express their thanks, but rest assured, he will be remembered.




I hope they like Calamari. I know he just loves gibboleth.

[Nix]

Sensori said:
And Agartha, you're gonna love that fortress province. You'll get Wizards from there. Or Enchancers or Warrior Mages, depending what you want. Those trump the crappy Jaguar Tribe Priests you'd get from there regularily.



It'll make a beautiful addition to inner Agartha's appropriately labyrinthine defenses.

I'm personally looking forward to the clash between Helheim and the Pangaean masses. I've been thinking that valley was empty for the entire game, and then when I finally scout it out properly - holy crap that's a lot of satyrs.

[Jazzepi]

Sensori said:
I sent half of all of the gems I had a couple of turns back to Yomi and Atlantis, as they had asked for them first. It was a relatively large amount of them, about a hundred gems of varying types went to both. And now, as death draws closer, I still have some gem income in a besieged fortress. I'm sending the last bits I get to someone whom I consider most deserving, rather than people who managed to say "I want them" first. ;p

And mwahhhahhaa, I managed to pillage at least a couple of regular high income (and high resource) provinces in Helheim's lands. My only regret is that I didn't manage to pillage Marverni itself. And Agartha, you're gonna love that fortress province. You'll get Wizards from there. Or Enchancers or Warrior Mages, depending what you want. Those trump the crappy Jaguar Tribe Priests you'd get from there regularily.



Wow, I find this incredibly irritating. I wish random windfalls would send me an extra 100 gems. It'd be different if Atlantis and whatever nation Sensori was playing were allied against some nation, but to just randomly give them out because they "asked for them first"?

Please. Just die with your gems instead of unbalancing the game for the rest of us. Some of us don't have benefactors to just send us tons of gems.

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

Jazzepi said:

Wow, I find this incredibly irritating. I wish random windfalls would send me an extra 100 gems. It'd be different if Atlantis and whatever nation Sensori was playing were allied against some nation, but to just randomly give them out because they "asked for them first"?



I do (and did) with my gems what I want, especially now that I'm being put six feet under. I gave the same amount of gems to Yomi, so my gems didn't ALL go to one nation. What they do with them now is their business. When I posted the half/half thing I had far less gems and didn't quite expect to have as many of them as I ended up having, but a promise is a promise. I said I'd give them my gems fifty-fifty, and I did. Simple as that.

I hate it a lot more when people just die silently and give stuff to others under the counter, so that you might ever find out it even happened is if the guy who received things says so. But apparently others like it that way. At least now I know to just keep my mouth shut next time. Ignorance is bliss!


Please. Just die with your gems instead of unbalancing the game for the rest of us. Some of us don't have benefactors to just send us tons of gems.



Hey, Helheim taking over my capital is also "unbalancing", and Agartha eating up the other half (which was oddly gem site rich, I might add) is just as much "unbalancing". They got one fortress per, gem sites and so on. Helheim even got my capital completely intact. I think spreading the "unbalance" caused by my death to four nations instead of just two is actually a good thing. And hundred random gems (of which most were air gems, by the way) isn't quite as unbalancing in the long run than having a bunch more (gem rich) provinces than you would otherwise have because you ate up someone.

You see it as unbalancing (well, duh, I quite directly helped your enemy, of course you'll see it as a bad thing). I see it as the following: At the very least my short presence will be felt in the game even after my nation's death, and not only in the form of a much stronger Helheim. And maybe Agartha.

[Jazzepi]

Except for the fact that both the nations that gobbled up your territories had to earn it. Atlantis, and Yomi, did absolutely nothing to deserve getting 100 random gems. My problem isn't that either Argatha or Helheim is ahead in the race to win the game, my problem is you just gave the person I'm attacking gems for no reason. So all you've done is disrupted the power balance between our two nations.

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

Had to earn it? Don't make me laugh. 10 times out of 10, Marverni loses to Helheim's rush. No matter what you do as Marverni that early, you're about as hard for Helheim to just run over as indie provinces. Nice lil snack for minimum effort. You know how many Helhirdings and Valkyries I killed in the entirety of the war? Like... 5 in total, if not less. And that took the combined effort of my entire, remaining, army. Which also happened to be the largest army I had during the entire war. I take great pride in the fact that I actually managed to do SOMETHING to Helheim by pillaging a few provinces, because, you know, I was completely outclassed.

Helheim just had to be at the right place (be a neighbor of Marverni). Agartha had to be at the right place at the right time (be a neighbor of Marverni and be at a perfect position when Helheim rushes said nation). Atlantis and Yomi did do something to deserve said 100 gems. They were the first ones to say that they wanted the halves I was going to give away anyway. Their effort was, from my point of view, about comparable to that of the two nations that actually are offing me.

Obviously you would've preferred if I just had kept my mouth shut and let you fight Atlantis without knowing about any additional pyl... Gems. Point taken, next time I won't say a word. ;p

[Jazzepi]

Marverni being a weak nation is irrelevant to the point at hand. You've skewed the balance of power, by some amount large or small, by throwing your gems to random people.

If you're so upset that you got Marverni in a game with random nations then you should go complain to the devs about the power balance of the nation, not attempt to ruin it for the rest of us because you randomly got placed next to Helheim with a weak nation.

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

Huh? You're trying to turn this into me being upset about something?

...

Let's rewind a little.

I've had fun with what little I've had, trying to postpone my imminent demise while killing people in Helheim's provinces (ha ha, that's a couple less provinces for him to use for blood slaves later on!). I'm not upset about the fact that Marverni's weak in early game, I actually already like the nation. And as I see it, the more I can spread the lub of Marverni the better. At the point I made the whole "who wants half of my gems?" thing, I also had so few of them that cutting it up to 1/4ths would've made the amount completely laughable. This is what you have a problem with. However, this is completely supported by the game itself.

You say you are upset about me saying that I sent my gems out to people who were selected on first come first served basis, which is somewhat random, sure. Truth is, you got upset only after you learned the number of the gems (hundred zomg), and are making it damn obvious to me that you would've been perfectly happy with me being completely silent about the gems after asking about who'd want them the way I did, which is quite stupid from my point of view, although it seems to be the norm in the game. Ignorance is bliss. As I said, I've taken your (strange) point and will never ever say a word about possible sendings of gems to anyone when I lose again.

Indeed, from this little convo we've been having I think it's YOU who should be complaining to the devs about a built-in feature that's making you get all upset. MY gems, MY choice to give them away the way I want. NOT YOURS.

[Jazzepi]

Actually, I had no idea you had done this until I read it in a post 3 up. I didn't even see the call for people to line up to get free gems, or I would have said something then.

My problem is with the fact that you're not even involved in the conflict between Ry'leh and Atlantis. You have no ties to it, for all I know, Maverni is on the other corner of the map, but for some reason the person I'm fighting against suddenly has an extra hundred gems for no reason other than a quick forum post?

What if it was an extra 3000 gold? What if someone had staled 3-4 turns, had huge coffers and just felt like giving them out?

And of course they're *your* gems. I don't think that there should be any literal control over how they're sent, or who they can be sent to, but my problem isn't with that. I don't think that the devs should build anything into the game. My problem is that you're pissing my cheerios because you want to have some sort of last huzzah before you're wiped out of the game.

>MY gems, MY choice to give them away the way I want. NOT YOURS.

Just because they're your gems doesn't mean you should do anything you want with them. Theoretically, I could sign up for a game you're in, farm up a couple thousand gold, then give it to one of your opponents. Of course it would be MY gold, but that doesn't mean I SHOULD do all the things I CAN do with it. Do you see the difference?

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

Jazzepi said:
Actually, I had no idea you had done this until I read it in a post 3 up.



What have we learned, kids? It pays to follow the goings on in the thread, after all.


My problem is with the fact that you're not even involved in the conflict between Ry'leh and Atlantis.



Yep. Not involved in any shape or form. Note how there was no war when Atlantis said "gimme!". Otherwise I might've reconsidered giving them to him. Well, guess he got lucky.


-- for some reason the person I'm fighting against suddenly has an extra hundred gems for no reason other than a quick forum post?



Luck's fickle fate.


What if it was an extra 3000 gold? What if someone had staled 3-4 turns, had huge coffers and just felt like giving them out?



*I* didn't have huge coffers of anything when I did the thing. Thank Helheim for taking me out a lot slower than I thought he would. ;p And 100 random gems isn't exactly a lot, especially when you've been getting more gems than Atlantis on a regular basis for, like, ever, according to the graphs. Probably even closer to types you actually use. In fact I'd say that Atlantis receiving the gems only tipped the balance of power more into status "balance" rather than "imbalance".

If I had 3000 gold, I wouldn't be in the situation I'm in now would I. Ohh... What would I have given for 3000 gold... That would've had my war machine working a little longer.

And you know, these "what ifs" are kind of lame IMO. What if someone was winning the game, had 50:1 provinces compared to everyone, BUT THEN SURRENDERED? :O What if USSR was still standing? What if the nazis had won the 2nd World War?! What if that guy's mother is actually his father?!??!

Seriously though, if someone felt like giving out gems or money for whatever reason, well. That's their choice. If they aren't actually losing or anything, it's like saying... "Here are the keys to victory. Now look as I throw them away." It may suck to the players who didn't receive anything if they actually needed it, but that's how it is. Do you consider inviting another player to conquer some of your provinces before the aggressor manages to take over all of it imbalancing, too? Since as far as I know, that happens. Often.


My problem is that you're pissing my cheerios because you want to have some sort of last huzzah before you're wiped out of the game.



This "me pissing in your cheerios" happened because you happened to start fighting with a side that happened to be one of the two who said "gimme!" when I asked about giving out the gems. If you actually read the thread at any relatively constant rate, you would've managed to predict this. It is hardly my fault that you are fighting Atlantis rather than Oceania.


Just because they're your gems doesn't mean you should do anything you want with them.



Should? Not really. Only thing that's a "should" in this world is dying. ;p Could? Yes. Wanted to? Hell yes. I'm dead. If the only thing I can do to help someone else, even a random nation, to win, is giving gems, I'll do it. At least later, if that side happens to win, I can think that my sacrifice had some part in that victory. A small part, but still a part.


Theoretically, I could sign up for a game you're in, farm up a couple thousand gold, then give it to one of your opponents.



In practice, one thing is griefing and the other one is not. I didn't give them to Atlantis because he's YOUR opponent. I have nothing against you. He just happened to be one of the two people to say "gimme!" when I asked. Not to mention that couple of thousand of gold isn't quite comparable to hundred random gems of which most aren't even usable by the recipient, which will have to be alchemized, dropping the actual number of gems to half. If he wanted to turn them into gold, it'd be closer to 25 fire gems then.

Not to mention that I may have exaggerated the actual number a little. ;p It's closer to 100 than 50, and most of them (~50%, probably over) were air gems, is all I can remember. All in all, I think if I had just wanted to actually affect the game's balance the most, I would've thrown the air gems (all of them) to Caelum or equivalent and so forth. Note how I did not do that.

[DrPraetorious]

If you're going to be eliminated, it is legitimate - and, I might say, entirely wise - to do everything you can to hurt the one that eliminated you. This includes aiding whomever you think to be his likely enemies.

It's the primary means to discourage early rushes like this, which might otherwise completely predominate even in MP.

[Baalz]

I don't know, I think its generally bad form to engage in scorched earth tactics unless your opponent broke a NAP or something else like that. It just smacks of bad sportsmanship to me, trying to degrade the victory of someone who defeated you after the fact. It's only "wise" from a games theory POV if you're trying to influence future games by what you're doing here, which also seems rather poor sportsmanship (as in you're trying to give yourself an advantage in a subsequent game that has nothing to do with that game).

[Jazzepi]

DrPraetorious said:
If you're going to be eliminated, it is legitimate - and, I might say, entirely wise - to do everything you can to hurt the one that eliminated you. This includes aiding whomever you think to be his likely enemies.

It's the primary means to discourage early rushes like this, which might otherwise completely predominate even in MP.



I actually agree with you. If you're going to salt the earth and discourage people from screwing around with you in future games, I have no problem with that. My issue was with the sheer randomness of the gem distribution. As I mentioned before, the people who got the gems had nothing to do with Maverni.

Jazzepi

[BigDisAwesome]

I'd have to agree to Jazzepi. It would have made more sense for him to split his gems up between Helheim's immediate neighbors than to just randomly throw them out.

[Velusion]

He said he was going to do this quite a few turns ago... why didn't you guys pipe up then to try and change his mind?

[BigDisAwesome]

Well seeing as how the entire thing went down in 23 minutes here, it would have been a little hard. I was just piping in to state my opinion with the last post. I didn't pipe up before now because it didn't really affect me.

[Lingchih]

Exactly. No one on the post said anything negative at all about the gem giveaway when it was originally posted. I just happened to be lucky, saw Sensori's post right after it went up, and said "me too".

At the time, I thought it would be a handful of gems from a dying nation with no gem income left. Imagine my surprise, and delight, when a whole treasure chest arrives.

Oh, and a couple of turns before that, I got the 3000 gp random event. I seem to be lucky in this game so far.

[Sensori]

Argument: "SHOULD'VE THROWN GEMS TO HELHEIM'S NEIGHBORS."

No one helped me out in the fight, so why should I have helped anyone specific? You guys are the ones not making any sense. Why should I help people that would make more sense to you instead of sprinkling my gems where ever I felt like it? You guys didn't help me, Helheim's neighbors didn't help me, why do I care?

I have absolutely no idea.

Argument: "KILLING PEOPLE IS BAD SPORTSMANSHIP."

Right. My nation is dying. I had my armies mobilized into Helheim's lands well before my death was certain anywhere but my head. Very quickly I came to realize that I can't even hold my own with 100 troops against 10 Helhirdings. Result? I try to hit Helheim where it hurts: his pocket book. Bad sportsmanship? If trying to at least do SOMETHING to weaken the attacker is "bad sportsmanship"... That has to be the worst joke I've heard today. Sure, I might've continued it well beyond the last sell by date, but that's all I could do. By the way, I have 0 units left now.

I'd understand claims of "bad sportsmanship" if it was ME who started the war, but guess what? Marverni doesn't try to rush Helheim. There, I almost laughed out at the very idea.

Unless this is the good old "I DIDN'T RAEP HER, HER CLOTHING SAID SHE WANTED IT" argument.

/fuming

Jesus Christ, people. I just wanted to get rid of my gems and hurt Helheim with what I had. Affecting later games? I call people by the names of their nations in every game, for crying out loud. I wouldn't prolly even remember who did what in the next one. My name memory is horrible. To make R'lyeh feel a bit less betrayed by the eevil streaking men of the deep South East, I sent a couple of gems to him that I got last turn.

[tibbs]

I think the argument is baseless. It's his nation. Sensori can do whatever he wants to do with it. Maybe his pretender was feeble minded and is a bit of a lunatic. Whatever the reason it's been done and arguing about won't solve a thing. That's a part of playing a MP game.

[Sandman]

I hate getting bequests unless I've been supporting the fallen nation from behind the scenes.

[FAJ]

I have no problem with giving gems out to whom ever. I don't even mind bumping taxes in dire straits; but for the purpose of raising quick money for defense.

I don't really like scorched earth tactics, as it gives you no benifit. i can understand if the enemy were treacherous, or dishonest. Just for the sake of bitterness is weak in my opinion. I don't think grudges should carry over between games, so hurting the conquering player for no gain annoys me.

I don't think I was trecherous, I had communicated with you severeal turns before, declared war, waited and eventually attacked (the same turn you attacked me). It makes me sad that such aimiable relations would be met with such measures, but to each his own. It is my practice to give my extra gold and gems to the conquering player if they were honorable (to the effect of representing them plundering my stores). I always thought that capturing an enemy lab should steal a small portion of gems, and conquering an enemy province would steal a small percentage of gold. I mean, where are all these gems and goldstores located? Why can't the victor plunder their stores? If that were the case, I would see it to be thematic for players to spirit their gems away to neighbors and friendlies.

in other treachery news, Pangaea attacks without warning or any sort of communication. Helhiem may be quick in getting its come-uppings. That medusa threatens to petrify my entire army.

Cliff Notes:
-Giving gems is fine (pro-choice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
-Scorching the earth is unsportsmanly-like conduct unless responding to similar treachery
-Pangaea is a creep

I think it represents a game imbalance, that I was so easily able to overpower Marverni. I have never played a rush strategy before, never played with, or against Helhiem and made some random god when velusion offered me the extra place. With so little experiance, it shouldnt be so easy to just click the helhirding button a lot and win.

[sum1lost]

tibbs said:
I think the argument is baseless. It's his nation. Sensori can do whatever he wants to do with it. Maybe his pretender was feeble minded and is a bit of a lunatic. Whatever the reason it's been done and arguing about won't solve a thing. That's a part of playing a MP game.

[Sensori]

FAJ said:
I don't really like scorched earth tactics, as it gives you no benifit. i can understand if the enemy were treacherous, or dishonest. Just for the sake of bitterness is weak in my opinion. I don't think grudges should carry over between games, so hurting the conquering player for no gain annoys me.



Now, if my armies had actually been effective against you, I wouldn't have had to go around pillaging in the first place. Why did I start it? I had to give you a very concrete reason why to run after my armies! It was your choice that you attacked Marverni (the province) instead of killing the armies that were ravaging your countryside, in my opinion, and your population paid the price. I didn't "hurt you" for "no reason". You hurt yourself for no reason! ;p Had you left Marverni open for a few turns longer (which is what I was trying to do), my troops would've still sucked, and you would've still managed to beat them all with just looking at them angrily.

But really, I don't see any reason NOT to pillage your (attacking) enemy's lands, especially when there's nothing else you could do to fight them. I don't think anyone *wants* to make his or her enemy stronger with practically no consequences. It doesn't really stand to reason. Why should I opt to not use anything I have in my toolset to fight a menace, if just to make it a little easier for his other neighbors to defeat him?

You know how much unrest that pillage added? Instead of something close to measly 100, that came with tax 200, some provinces jumped up to 300+. Now that's what I was looking for. Weaker provinces with unrest that won't die by just keeping taxes at 0 for a couple of turns. Real consequences! Oh yeah. I also used the income from the pillages to fund my last few armies since I was down to like 20 income. ;p Wasn't enough alone to keep them afloat.


It is my practice to give my extra gold and gems to the conquering player if they were honorable (to the effect of representing them plundering my stores).



Now, here we have a big difference in ideology. I don't think that attacking can ever be seen as honorable (especially since the reason seems to always be "I NEED MY EMPIRE TO GROW"), unless the target is something like Ashen Empire Ermor where it's a public service. I see it as the defender's duty to fight the attacker to the bitter end, and do whatever it takes to slow down his demise. The analogy that comes to mind is a mugger expecting the mugged to just, well, be mugged, if the said mugger says, "I'm gonna mug you now!" I see that things are only different if the attacker gets overpowered by the defender. THEN you're just getting what's coming to ya, and it's all your fault.


I always thought that capturing an enemy lab should steal a small portion of gems



It would've been funny if I had gotten some of your gems from taking over that lone lab in the corner of your empire. See how this idea just would never work? The loser could eat up your gems so easily. You could never have labs outside of fortresses, because one call of the winds could cripple you if you had forgotten an event caused lab somewhere.


Why can't the victor plunder their stores?



Because the stores are omnipresent, looming over everything and everywhere. When you need gold, it appears out of thin air if your God thus wills it (he has gold in his coffers in his seeeeeeeeeeeecret hideout). Closest thing to "plundering someone's stores" ingame is pillaging the place.

[EarthRaver]

you made perfect sense

[Baalz]

Sensori said:
Now, here we have a big difference in ideology. I don't think that attacking can ever be seen as honorable (especially since the reason seems to always be "I NEED MY EMPIRE TO GROW"), unless the target is something like Ashen Empire Ermor where it's a public service. I see it as the defender's duty to fight the attacker to the bitter end, and do whatever it takes to slow down his demise. The analogy that comes to mind is a mugger expecting the mugged to just, well, be mugged, if the said mugger says, "I'm gonna mug you now!" I see that things are only different if the attacker gets overpowered by the defender. THEN you're just getting what's coming to ya, and it's all your fault.




Well, not to egg on a rant, but I thought I might elaborate on my point about sportsmanship that obviously touched a nerve. Your analogy of a mugging seems a bit out of place, obviously if you're being victimized by a criminal sportsmanship doesn't have any bearing- you fight as dirty as you can. My feeling though, is I'm not being mugged, I'm playing a game whose sole purpose is the mutual enjoyment of all involved. A well fought opponent deserves a congratulations and a (virtual) handshake, not me doing every annoying thing I can think of to make his life more difficult against his *next* opponent after I have no hope of lasting more than a few turns.

Just to be clear I'm not talking about whatever happened in this game (which didn't effect me and I have no particular opinion on), but rather the position that its good policy to do your best to dick over whoever beats you by destroying your buildings, pillaging your own lands, and giving your gems to anyone who seems likely to use them against him. That, as I said, just smacks of poor sportsmanship being justified by weak rational.

[Sensori]

Baalz said:
Well, not to egg on a rant, but I thought I might elaborate on my point about sportsmanship that obviously touched a nerve.



All it did was make me go "..." here behind the monitor, because I find "bad sportsmanship" to be the one of the stupidest terms used when it comes to games, especially when you're using it to describe someone defending against an opponent that's winning, not because of skill (as FAJ said, he's just clickin' the Helhirding button), but because of an early game imbalance that's in his favor.


A well fought opponent deserves a congratulations and a (virtual) handshake



Yeah. As I said, if I had been able to FIGHT him, I would've acted differently. But the point you're missing is that nothing was "well fought" in this war. All he needed to do was show up. Did you miss the part where I said my 100 man army lost to 10 Helhirdings? Because it happened. I had set up the army, I had given my mages orders to use the few spells I had. And everywhere we met, I lost.


but rather the position that its good policy to do your best to dick over whoever beats you by destroying your buildings,



It is a good policy if you get rushed early and there's nothing you can do about it because your nation's capabilities to thwart it suck. At least you're making sure that your enemy won't just grow stronger, but has to actually do something to get full use of places. I don't see what's the problem with that, really. If I can't fight him on the battlefield, of course I fight him where I can, which is his pocket book.


pillaging your own lands,



Actually, I pillaged HIS lands in an attempt to keep him away from my lands, and set mine to 200% tax. There's the difference. But yes, I would've pillaged Marverni proper without a blink of an eye if I had had the chance, because now he has a what, 400 gold income giving province that also provides some gems which he just had to sit in for a couple of turns and then press the "storm" button. I don't think he even lost a single helhirding in the process.

SUCH A HARD FOUGHT VICTORY. Jesus Christ.


That, as I said, just smacks of poor sportsmanship being justified by weak rational.



Well, you aren't really justifying your position with a great rational, either. You are making it sound that you think that nations like Marverni shouldn't even try to do anything but die ASAP against early rush nations because it sure as hell can't fight off their armies. Sure, it'd make the attacker happy, but it wouldn't make anyone else happy. And doesn't make for a fun game for the player of Marverni, either.

In fact, I'll come around and say that attacking a nation that can't defend itself against you at all is worse sportsmanship than that nation trying to do something against you! ;p

[FAJ]

Oh now common. I was anything but unsportsmanly.

I have been trounced by early rushers before too; it is frusterating. You explained your position; pillaging my provinces and bumping taxes in your own for a resource war. That is legit. I think scorching the earth for bitterness' sake is wrong. You didn't do that, so I don't know what the argument is.

I would have been upset if you started pillaging Marverni the turn we attacked eachother. You didnt even scuttle the lab, which was nice of you. (Your spirit lived on and a random event burned it down a turn later though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif).

[Sensori]

I didn't? I swear I tried to!

Mental note: if breaking the lab and storming takes place the same turn, lab stays up. But at least the event broke it down, so... Just as planned!

FAJ, I was just kidding when I said that (about the sportsmanship). It's how Helheim's set up, you pretty much need to rush someone early on if you don't want to die. "Problem" is that people you'll rush won't wanna die, either. It's funny though that no one who had anything to do with the war had nothing negative to say about it. Just people who're God knows where on the map do.

Sure, when Marverni was besieged I was thinking I would've pillaged it if I had the chance (if you had broken the siege, THEN I would've started pillaging it), but seriously enough, it was my only bigger source of income for as long as it was free, so me pillaging it beforehand wouldn't really been very likely. I needed it as much as you probably needed it to pay for the upkeep on your crazy Helhirding armies. ;p

[tibbs]

As long as you are playing within the rules of the game(not cheating) I dont' have a problem with it. This isn't really a "sport" so sportsmanship doesn't apply. This is a game about war.

Did Hitler say Stalin was "unsportsmanlike" when Stalin burned down every village that the Germans captured during the Barbarossa advance?

[FAJ]

well, the pillaging isn't really gonna hurt me too badly anyways. It will hurt Pangaea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif. He will have those provinces soon enough. My "army" of ~15 valkries stands adjacent to his 1000+ legion of doom and in spitting distance of his gorgon.

In other news; is there any trick to dealing with a petrifying opponent when you have no mages/research? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jazzepi]

Conceding.

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

i no understand internets hjuumor

[BigDisAwesome]

Getting more mages and research?

[Rytek]

Well, Ctiss has done a number on my SC god using Horror mark, curse, a bless with bonus to causing afflictions. It hasnt killed her but its only a matter of time. I think if he had followed up with his earlier horror markings with more horror marks from shaman on every fight she would be out by now. His first attack on me was real nifty, though I think he was expecting an easy kill because it was rather early. He brought his hero shaman with 2 astral and a few Sauromancers in the attack. He horror marked, cursed and his sauromancers each summoned a few of those Lamshanka's which instantly went for the horror marked god. The turn before I had just completed research on construction 4 and had fully kited her out. End result was his dead army and shaman hero. But it was a real good early game try.

[MAJ_Disgrace]

Thanks Rytek. I read on FAQ that curses and horror marks permanently mess you up. This is my first ever game, and I really wish I would have learned some more offensive magic instead of conjuration so I could have harmed your SC. Anyways, I'm being attacked by two powerful nations, so I'm about done. It has been fun and educational. I'm looking for another game to join now that I've learned a little more. Ctiss are awesome. I love light infantry spear chucking and fleeing. I hope my next nation gets more of them. Chariots are cool too. Too bad they were all wasted trying to hit your SC. Good luck to you and Oceana after kicking my tail.

[Nix]

For sale, the Greenstone Armor of Bogus the Troll. Highest bidder.

[Lingchih]

Jazzepi said:
Conceding.

Jazzepi



Conceding? Your haven't lost a province (I don't even have an invasion army), and you just took one of mine with your invasion army. I don't understand.

-Atlantis

[Velusion]

Jazzepi was replying to FAJ's question...

[Jazzepi]

Lingchih said:

Jazzepi said:
Conceding.

Jazzepi



Conceding? Your haven't lost a province (I don't even have an invasion army), and you just took one of mine with your invasion army. I don't understand.

-Atlantis



Oh wow. I was making a joke response to FAJ's post.

Jazzepi

[Lingchih]

Oh wow. I was making a joke response to FAJ's post.

Jazzepi



Ahh. Cool. Have at you then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[Sensori]

Whew, that's good to hear. Jokes like that dun work too well on the internets. ;p

[FAJ]

only because it was the first post on the page.

in other news; I have started pillaging both the capital provinces and am spreading peanut butter over all the fields. TRY TILLING THAT!

[Salamander8]

Someone will spill chocolate on your peanut butter and start a new snack sensation!

[Sensori]

Dear pesky Pretenders,

By the time you
read this

I'll bee gone

[EarthRaver]

OMG ermor is hungry like a homer .he is eating near my lands.anyone suggest wad a newbie like me should do?

[Jazzepi]

Ry'leh needs nature gems. We are willing to trade F/A/E/D/A gems 1 to 1 for them. Please let us know if you're interested.

Jazzepi

[Baalz]

Concede.

Considering you attacked the holy empire whilst the legion was otherwise occupied I have precious little patience for your sniveling that now the earth shakes as they march on you. Still, I am not a heartless emperor, surrender your lands and none of your people need be crucified, nor your lands salted. Roll to show me your belly and I shall allow you to be my lap dog. Otherwise I fear you shall learn firsthand how the legion's violent reputation was forged.

[Jazzepi]

I'm so glad Baalz is back XD

Jazzepi

[Lingchih]

Exchange between Atlantis and R'yleh:

-Had enough?

-Your arm's off!

-Tis but a scratch. Have at you.

-Silly bugger.

Atlantis is in serious need of some Astral boosters. I'll pay top dollar for starshine skullcaps, etc. I'll even buy from R'yleh, if he is selling.

[Sandman]

Has Pangaea given up?

[Jazzepi]

Lingchih said:
Exchange between Atlantis and R'yleh:

-Had enough?

-Your arm's off!

-Tis but a scratch. Have at you.

-Silly bugger.

Atlantis is in serious need of some Astral boosters. I'll pay top dollar for starshine skullcaps, etc. I'll even buy from R'yleh, if he is selling.



I'll sell you one for 5,000 gold and 100 gems of assorted type.

Jazzepi

[FAJ]

Sandman said:
Has Pangaea given up?



He staled last turn, right?

He may be trying a different "scorched earth" approach to get back at me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Sensori]

Sounds like the "scorched game" approach. ;p

[Jazzepi]

If we could set him to AI that'd be great.

Jazzepi

[BigDisAwesome]

Give him this turn. Something could have come up. Now I'm all for no more than 2 turns staled in a row, but I always considered the standard to be at least 2 before you're set to AI.

[BigDisAwesome]

I gotta show you guys this. First time I've ever seen something like it.
Also I MSpainted over the province name.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/379/holyvoiceofapsubatmanyt5.jpg

[BigDisAwesome]

And I forgot to say, but we should really look for a Pangaea replacement now. 3 turns+ is too much.

[Sensori]

Hay guys, I'm back! In the form of Pangaea! Time to fight to the death with Helheim... AGAINNNN!

RRRETSU GOOOO! GEKIGANGAAA!

[Jazzepi]

Ry'leh is still in the market for nature gems. We no longer have fire gems to offer, but we still have E/A/W/S

We would also like to purchase a dwarven hammer. We are willing to pay 20 earth gems for a single hammer.

Jazzepi

[Lingchih]

Jazzepi said:
Ry'leh is still in the market for nature gems. We no longer have fire gems to offer, but we still have E/A/W/S

We would also like to purchase a dwarven hammer. We are willing to pay 20 earth gems for a single hammer.

Jazzepi



Hmm. I have a whole rack full of dwarven hammers. I'll sell you one for, let's see, 120 water gems?

[Jazzepi]

Nobody wants to see your rack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Jazzepi

[Lingchih]

Would anyone care to supply the poor Atlanteans with a bag of wine or cauldron of broth. I seem to have built up some rather massive armies that need food. I have many things to trade, and enough nature gems to build any of the above. Alas, we have no one skilled in nature magic.

[EarthRaver]

Damned im undersiege by baalz's evil lizards, might be hard to get out of this.

[EarthRaver]

Baalz said:
Concede.

Considering you attacked the holy empire whilst the legion was otherwise occupied I have precious little patience for your sniveling that now the earth shakes as they march on you. Still, I am not a heartless emperor, surrender your lands and none of your people need be crucified, nor your lands salted. Roll to show me your belly and I shall allow you to be my lap dog. Otherwise I fear you shall learn firsthand how the legion's violent reputation was forged.



We will never surrender to you and your lizardry minions, even if our nation shall fall,our spirit will always exist to haunt you of your old enemies . We will make this last stand historic and show you our nation's might. For this will end on our hallowed lands.We will fight for honor to avenge our ally the great Kailasa and stop this hungry gobbling menace from extending his reach to the whole northeast of the world!

[Everything above is 100% dramatization. None of it is intended to offend anybody related. Thank You.]

[Jazzepi]

Lingchih said:
Would anyone care to supply the poor Atlanteans with a bag of wine or cauldron of broth. I seem to have built up some rather massive armies that need food. I have many things to trade, and enough nature gems to build any of the above. Alas, we have no one skilled in nature magic.



Hahahahaha.

Feel our pain.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

The people of Ry'leh are also interested in either your nature gems, cauldrons of broth, or bags of wine. Contact us if you wish to trade for gems or something else.

Jazzepi

[Baalz]

'tis not the Lizard Auxiliaries you should fear, but rather the men they are there to support. Lizards are not known for raping when sacking a city, the legionaries however are known to be.... enthusiastic in their entertainment. Those same auxiliaries you fear for their cold eyes once defied the holy emporer, but had the good sense to bend to the prevailing winds rather than condemn their people to slaughter. Pity you don't share their good sense, your people might have found honor fighting with the legion, now instead history will record this as the year the last of the tuatha fell. Such is the legacy of worshiping an overgrown snake and befriending monkeys.

[Sensori]

This last standing business is fun. So much fun it is that I'm doing it again on a pretty much dead nation. Only difference between the earlier war and this one is that I've actually fought Helheim' troops and defeated them (although at a horrible cost to naked women) more often than he has defeated the armies of Pangaea. Considering that Valkyries and Helhirdings are cap only, and I've beaten like 3-4 groups of from 15 (one group) to ~45 (most groups) of them, he shouldn't have a whole massive crapload of them lying around anymore.

Anyone wanna fight Helheim? I'd say now'd be the time!

[EarthRaver]

Another month closer to the extinction of my nation, so cool so cool!

[Baalz]

A well used deployment of air elementals, they certainly saved your bacon! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif To be honest I did not think you would outlast the first wave, but now that you have spent yourself repulsing our Auxiliaries you have earned the honor of seeing the pride of Ermor in action. We salute you as a worthy warriors, our captains will raise mugs of ale in your honor...once they have liberated them from your personal stores.

[FAJ]

Alas, Helhiem has taken large casualties, and we face an opponent that outnumbers us 20 to 1.

We will do our best not to under-estimate you again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

In other news, I have a ton of gems but no way to use them (My gem income actually exceeds my RP) so if anyone out there has the opposite problem, I am eager to trade. What I really want is someone to forge me astral items in bulk. PM me if you are interested.

EDIT- After seeing the most recent turn, we may not get another chance to underestimate you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Anyone wanna lend Helhiem a hand? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Salamander8]

Well that was a sobering experience. Over 200 troops including casters backed up by some PD face about 40 giants and didn't even inflict a single casualty while taking grievous losses. My inexperience as Arco and MP games shined through on that one. I've never had that much problem with the giants before. A combination of their owner's skill and I usually don't play the more 'standard' nations mixed with my research choices. Dang SP games have me too complacent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/redface.gif

I have to say that even with that, the pegasus riders have performed miserably. Even vs the indies earlier and especially in this battle, they just have not done well at all.

[Lingchih]

Jeez, man! I can't fight that. How do you feed all those bastards? Oh, and for future reference, Antimagic ain't worth a hill of beans against a true horde of Aboleths and their spawn.
Azathoth is now looking for a large cave, preferably a very deep and well hidden cave, to hide in.

-Atlantis

[Sensori]

FAJ said:

EDIT- After seeing the most recent turn, we may not get another chance to underestimate you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif Anyone wanna lend Helhiem a hand? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif



You forced my hand by throwing crap on Pangaea the province. So, thank yourself on being stupid enough do that! ;p

And as I said, NOW'S the time to attack Helheim if you ever wanted to! Leerooooyyyy Jenkinnnnnnnssssss

[FAJ]

Aw, cant call me stupid for doing that. If revenge wasnt enough, certaintly my close proximity and weakened state was enough to provoke attack.

[Sensori]

Uh, I was perfectly happy sitting in a defensive position, waiting for my death, but then you started Blighting my home and forced me to attack so I can gain some income. ;p So I'd call it stoopid! I'm not doing this for vengeance, I'm doing this to sub for someone who was dying under your pressure and to slow you down. And I surely didn't expect your armies to just die like that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

[Velusion]

RPing is ok, but lets not get carried away with the name-calling eh?

[Saint_Dude]

Hey now, I lost a single battle to helheim (because my initial probe stumbled on about 60 hellherdlings) before I lost contact with the game. I in no way quite because of the outcome of that battle. I just ran into unexpected Internet issues during my move.

In actuality I went looking for a fight with helheim, fully expecting to grind them to dust. Not only did pangaea have vastly superior numbers, they had researched a number of potent area effect spells (to eliminate the glamour), and the pretender was well suited to either operate as an sc or cast support spells.

That pangaea is now in fact beating up on helheim is far from shocking (unless of course pan's pretender was scragged during the turns that I stalled). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Sensori]

Well, by the time I got control of Pangaea he was inside the little walled thingie and all that was left was like 6 provinces. ;p Numerical advantage has never meant instavictory, which is why things looked very bad to be. But right now, they look oddly good.

And Velusion, I'm just joking around when I wuz "calling him names." It's nuffin serious. ;p But still, the blighting was a mistake, I wouldn't have started attacking if he hadn't started it cuz I had no idea what he was packing.

[FAJ]

Well, its only fair for you to crush me. in this game, we are one for one; killing eachother and being killed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

and I too was surprised by my troops just dying. I was watching the battle and all of a sudden everyone just ran and died. They seemed to be doing so well! I even saw my commanders escape, but they were reported dead. A shame http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.

And I didn't take offense at the stupid comment. No worries. I don't consider any moves I have done in this game to be smart per se. I have no clue what I am doing with this nation and I am trying to conceptualize a plan to recover, but Helhiem is hollow. No infrastructure, no saftey nets! My god just showed up and I am wondering wth I was thinking when I made him!

Also, just curious, does blighting multiple times in one turn stack the effect, or is it at max, one blight effect? I cast it 3 times on the same place crossing my fingers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

[Saint_Dude]

FAJ said:
I was watching the battle and all of a sudden everyone just ran and died. They seemed to be doing so well! I even saw my commanders escape, but they were reported dead.



Sounds like the battle replay bug strikes again. When this happens the battle replays have little to do with the official final results.


FAJ said:
I have no clue what I am doing with this nation and I am trying to conceptualize a plan to recover, but Helhiem is hollow. No infrastructure, no saftey nets!



I think Helheim is challenging to play. The helherdlings are awesome, but counterable. And once you lose significant numbers of helherdlings it seams to be all down hill from there. I think with Helheim it is very important to utilize their stealth and glamour capabilities so as to pick your fights and keep your opponent off guard.


FAJ said:
Also, just curious, does blighting multiple times in one turn stack the effect, or is it at max, one blight effect? I cast it 3 times on the same place crossing my fingers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.



I believe the answer is yes, they stack.

[Velusion]

Nice. coobe's (Abysia) general mockery of the value of NAPs on the irc channel has materialized and put to practice.

I hope everyone realizes that coobe (Abysia) is dismissive of NAPs as "silly contrivances" and generally thinks they are silly.

I'll remember this betrayal in the future *winks*... and I hope everyone will as well (god knows I'm going to mention it every, single, chance, I, ever, can...)

[Jazzepi]

You posted in the wrong thread XD

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

He didn't, coobe took over Abysia after Micah figured he didn't wanna play after some subbing work by someone.

And I thought that he (coobe) just kept talking about how Jomon in the other game broke the NAP and so on and so on, but it turned out that it was just a random indie province skirmish. The one who I've seen talking about this issue and considers NAPs to be silly is Sombre (on IRC), who doesn't even do NAPs.

[Jazzepi]

I am Jomon in the other game, and I didn't break an NAP. I was throwing away some mercenaries into a territory he didn't control. You sure had a lot of fun jumping to conclusions. Hopefully I'll break Abysia's armies next turn and begin to retake my territory.

Jazzepi

[Velusion]

I updated the player list so it's clear who is who..

[Sensori]

Jazzepi said:
You sure had a lot of fun jumping to conclusions.



When someone says, "that nation attacked me!", it doesn't require a lot of jumping into conclusions. That's what he said. I didn't jump anywhere. I obviously worked on the assumption that he wasn't just overreacting, because people don't usually start calling it a blatant attack on them when that happens.

[Velusion]

So, just to get the thread back on track, the general conclusion we are reaching here is that coobe (Abysia in this game) is untrustworthy and an early game backstabber (not just in this game but in all games)?

I just wanted to make sure we are all on the same page http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

[Jazzepi]

I thought the point was that Sensori is a doufus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Jazzepi

[Velusion]

Jazzepi said:
I thought the point was that Sensori is a doufus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Jazzepi



Stay on topic... Stay on topic..... *BLAM*

[BigDisAwesome]

Velusion said:

Jazzepi said:
I thought the point was that Sensori is a doufus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Jazzepi



Stay on topic... Stay on topic..... *BLAM*



Stop spinning Velusion!

[Velusion]

BigDisAwesome said:

Velusion said:

Jazzepi said:
I thought the point was that Sensori is a doufus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

Jazzepi



Stay on topic... Stay on topic..... *BLAM*



Stop spinning Velusion!



I can't stop spinning in disgust at Coobie (Abysia's) desicrations of NAPs.

I know... If I just talk it out, all the anger will eventually go away (say in a month or so). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

[FAJ]

I will be going on vacation in a week. Unless a sub wants to take over for 6-7 days, I will set myself AI on saturday.

[Lingchih]

The ancient city of Atlantis is about to fall to the evil, mindless hordes of R'lyeh. There seems little hope of defense. Mighty Azathoth will take his revenge as long as he lives (we woke him all the way up now, so watch out), but the seas will eventually be controlled by R'lyeh. The Arcane Nexus will be sure to follow.

Not that the rest of you nations need worry too much (except for perhaps Oceania). I believe his worthless little flippered bugs are useless on land. But when you look to the sea, say a blessing for brave Atlantis, who strove to remove his evil from the world.

(Actually, Azathoth is pretty evil too, but different. He's a good sort of evil, you know?)

[Jazzepi]

Azathoth wants to eat your children! Thank Ry'leh for crushing his empire and helping to rid the world of his influence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Jazzpei

[Sandman]

T'ir Na Nog is certainly giving Ermor quite a fight...

[Jazzepi]

Oceanian recently ended our NAP and now is massing troops on our borders. We do not have scouts in the eastern part of the world, but all those who border him please contact us. We dislike being under siege by two nations at once.

Jazzepi

[Sensori]

Heh, Saint_Dude really overestimated the power of Pangaean chaff versus Helheim, not to mention that he really botched the element of surprise and totally crushed any chances of victory with the stale turns. I still say that it's impossible to win this war. Hell, the only way to even win a fight is to just sit there and wait for Helheim to attack, and that's not a very good offensive strategy, and only works to a point.

You know, inability to recruit Pans or any troops unless you get lucky with events isn't a good thing when you're supposed to try to win a damn war. I still wonder how you, Saint_Dude, even thought you could've won this thing, unless the aim was to just get killed fast by staling while Helheim takes everything over.

I should do what Velusion asked me to do and turn this nation AI. ;p Especially now that my job is done, I slowed down Helheim, harr harr!

(RANTING IS OVAR)

[Baalz]

Indeed, the Tuatha have proven worthy adversaries, and I have underestimated them again. Yet still, their candle burns too brightly I think. A scant dozen heroes now hold the capital, the walls stand abandoned and their gem stores are exhausted. Their prowess will be sung through the ages, but now the time has come to lay down the sword. I urge you, great wyrm, to not throw the last few lives of the Tuatha away in a futile gesture as the drums of inevitability beat on. I have prepared a reservation for you, near the C'tisian reserve. You have earned a well deserved rest, let the last of the Tuatha earn everlasting honor as captains in the Ermorian legion, not be consigned to the footnotes of history as yet another barbarian cult destroyed by the rising sun of the Ermorian empire.

[Salamander8]

Arco is being stomped into the ground by the super-blessed Niefelheim giants. Only my forts are slowing them down and that's only as long as it takes them to break in. All my neighbors should be prepared for my lands turning cold in the near future.