Legends of Faerun - Closed (Game started)

[Jazzepi]

Well, obviously annoying but nobody could reasonably expect you to stick it out if you're that miserable. Thanks for playing as long as you did and no worries (at least from me) about bailing.

Thanks, that means a lot for me. In this game, several things just accumulated on me to create a very unusual binge. The lack of indie mages and the sudden loss of pretender paths + unfortunate choice of neighbours. (there wasn't anyway I could have fought against TC in the early/mid game, those Warriors of the Five Elemets just are a counter to all of the tricks I could do). It was nice of Jazzepi to humor me by signing a NAP.

But, luckily it wasn't all for naught. This game gave me inspiration to do my Underwater-mod, parts of which are going into the next CBM. I'm just the kind of guy who can't stand to see something broken when it can be easily fixed. But my underwater rant (trust me, I have a lenghty one) isn't really for this thread.

I had the same thing happen to me in Cripplefight with LA Atlantis.

Jazzepi

[Executor]

Hey Vfb, did you notice the name of the province where that fight with your Eagle Kings was?
It's very symbolic. :)

[vfb]

Hey Vfb, did you notice the name of the province where that fight with your Eagle Kings was?
It's very symbolic. :)

Heh. :D

Yes, we have been busy bulldozing the bodies into that hall for the past little while. I expect to have to add a new wing soon, there just isn't room to stack the corpses any higher.

Hopefully we'll be able to add a few Fomorian Kings to go with all the dead Eagle Kings though. :)

[Calahan]

Could there be an another delay of 24 hours? There was a small hurricane yesterday and I was unable to get home.
Sorry for inconvenience.
Many apologies WingedDog for not getting your delay request in time. Lady Luck holds a grudge against you I guess, as today was one of the very few days I was out of the works office all day. As if it had been practically any other day then I would have seen your request before the hosting deadline hit.

So sorry again :( and hope your stale wasn't critical in your war against the demon monkeys.

[Zeldor]

I found a volunteer for a sub, but dunno if I should give it to him, so he can learn smth [but what?] or try to do smth to Ulm [but why? when no one is interested in real wars in that game, just bashing smaller targets while others conquer AIs and go for victory that way].

[Executor]

I found a volunteer for a sub, but dunno if I should give it to him, so he can learn smth [but what?] or try to do smth to Ulm [but why? when no one is interested in real wars in that game, just bashing smaller targets while others conquer AIs and go for victory that way].

Compared to TC, Ulm and Fomoria all other nations are smaller targets.
And for us fighting among each other is a very stupid thing to do, as it will still leave one nation free while two us are busy bringing each other down, if you get what I mean.
I'm all for it, but if it's gonna leave the third nation free to keep grabbing provinces without opposition and win than no thanks.

And I for one have fought more wars (human wars) in this game than anyone else, so I hope that isn't directed at me.

[Calahan]

Sadly, Caelum is not capable of putting up much of a fight against the mages of Fomoria either, whose wicked conjurations of multitudes of Ashen Angels and Earth Elementals surprised our doomed commanders this month.

-- Kinaesthesia of Caelum

Heck yeah. I'd continue fighting if I had some valiant last stands to do. Those are actually fun. But it will take decades for anyone to actually assault my underwater provinces, that's one of the reasons why I see my postion as so dull. Even once I lose my coasts to Helheim, he'll probably stop there and leave me rot in the ocean. I tried to bate Agartha into attacking me, but to no avail, since he got distracted by Fomoria.
Ok, I've just caught up on the recent happenings on this thread after being away from the net all day. I'd really hate to lose you Burnsaber, especially considering how well Oceania are doing. Losing dying nations like Hinnom to the AI is one thing, but when we lose mid/high level nations like Yomi and now possibly Oceania, then it just serves to hammer more nails in this games already fragile credibility coffin. Maybe Lingchih's cunning plan of winning this game purely by being the last player left will actually come to fruition?!?

An odd thought just occurs to me, have we actually created one of those weird Japanese endurance games here?!? Since mental willpower seems to be far more important for success here than actually playing skill. But I digress, so back to the game.


Sorry I didn't take your bait Burnsaber. "Attack Oceania" was hovering near the top of the Agartha to-do list for quite some time, but it got pushed to the bottom when Fomoria declared war on me. So with that in mind...

@ Burnsaber - Would Agartha taking your worm and deciding to go for an extended swim mean you would stay in the game? Or have you already made your mind up to quit? Since if Executor, as Fomoria, is offering Agartha peace in order to keep you in the game, then for the sake of the game, I'd probably accept it, and archive all my 'Anti-Fomoria' tactics until a later date :)

I'm willing to make a truce with Agartha if he'll fight you and there for keep you in the game.
@ Executor - I'll also agree to this if it keeps Burnsaber in the game. Although I'll pass if Burnsaber decides that not even the thought of some underwater fisty-cuffs is enough of a temptation to stay around for.

[Zeldor]

Executor:

What other two? You were not interested in taking down Ulm when he was weaker. You were not interested in my help [and not only mine] to defeat him. You prefered to attack Agartha. You signed the really cowardish deal to not fight till there are just 10 nations left.

Ulm was not interested in getting my help either, he just got some free land in the corner.

I don't border TC and I have never seen any real action to fight him. I will support his victory [well, he won't get any items - they will probably go to Agartha, for fighting Fomoria, at least he is doing smth], as he has some plan and wants to at least do some diplomacy. He'd get my military support earlier, if not my bad luck.

People, learn to play in big games. I think I will be sticking with invite-only, after getting into last RAND game, I witnessed really new world.

[Executor]

Killed Vanheim, Hinnom, am fighting Agartha and Cealum, Mictlan also, however that was mostly AI.
I think that's not a bad number of fights on my part.

The reason I made a deal I did with Ulm is the fact whenever I go to war I get gangbanged, Calahan knows so and so does Vfb and Chris, ask them.

I don't think there are many players so have fought so many 1vs 3,4 or 5 wars like I have unfortunately.
So securing a border on one part doesn't sound like a cowardly act in my book.

I dislike how TC rose to power. If I was next to him we'd be fighting, however I'm not.
And I most certainly would never ignore a pact and attack Ulm with our prior agreement as I'm foolishly proud.

And now you say you'll support TC even more as to win without even a real fight in this game? I don't really get that.

I just don't see how I'm the bad guy here and frankly I'm sick of all this,
if you people want to end this game, go head, declare Jazzepi the winner now, I don't see much point in continuing this game.

[Zeldor]

Nah, TC won't get anything from me. All that I'm saying that he was the only one willing to accept the help of Atlantis. From the beginning ATlantis had no chance to do anything big, so I wanted to ally with someone. Only TC was really interested with that, and he was one of the mid-pack nations back then, way behind Sauro, Ulm or Fomoria.

Ulm made good alliances, hard to blame him. I can blame some others for not taking care of potential threats. You included. At least it looks like that from my position. What were you hoping for? I was willing to give all my SCs at your disposal, so Ulm can be stopped.

[Calahan]

... to Agartha, for fighting Fomoria, at least he is doing smth.....
I thought someone should at least try to dent one of the leaders :) even if pinching their global did mean incurring their wrath :(

[vfb]

IMO when you've got no chance of winning, pissing off your neighbors so you can die gloriously on the field of battle is much more fun than helping someone else win.

[Executor]

Yes, I was a threat, still am. And I expected some wars would come my way, someone would realize that I was one of the leading nations the whole game and organize something against me, never happened.

The thing I hate about this game is that everybody is just content to live peacefully in their little corner, the result is you will stay a mid power nation, while the few nations who fight will get bigger logicaly. Shiny is AI, TC doesn't HAVE to take all for himself, same applied for Neif but nah.

A lot of player waited too long to start some wars, most people like the odds on their side as in a gangbang, that might be one of the reasons.

For gods sake even the AI's will survive till the end of this game.
Nehekhara was turned AI at about turn 15 right? THEY ARE STILL ALIVE! WTF?

Yes, I know you were willing to give me items and SC usage against Ulm but I still like my fights 1vs1 as much as possible. Only time I agree to outnumber my opponent is when I consider myself much weaker or am backed against the wall.
However there was still the matter of the pact with Ulm which prevented me from attacking anyway.

So far the possible winners IMO are Revolution, Jazzepi or me and I'm not betting on myself since I'm fighting two players that have a tendency to fight till the very end while the others are much more lucky. And I for one think that my position is well deserved and I played this game were honorably and fairly. Even told Calahan I'd attack him even doe we had no agreements.

[chrispedersen]

An odd thought just occurs to me, have we actually created one of those weird Japanese endurance games here?!? Since mental willpower seems to be far more important for success here than actually playing skill. But I digress, so back to the game.



Hey, I subbed into this game, so I don't really have a lot of history in it. But after I subbed into the position, I'm really of the position that I can make very little difference in this game.

I don't really want to upset the players, but someone already said it that the stales/drops have made the credibility of the game suspect. I agree with that.

Jazzepi has been a gentlemen so I don't want to put any impute any failing on his part - but are there really any credible hopes of stopping him? At this point he can still roll up a few Yomi territories for essentially free - after which he borders another AI nation, at the very least.

Executor, ever the fierce competitor, is willing to fight him (I think) but shares no border. This really looks like a decided game....

[vfb]

Didn't you know it's Fomoria's top secret plan to keep TC in the lead, so TC gets to be the victim of a gankfest instead of Fomoria?

Anyway, I think it's way too early to be calling the game for anyone at this stage. Looks to me like there are 5 or six nations that are cursed with being capable of winning this game.

[Lingchih]

Victory conditions were 200 provs held for 3 turns, eh? I don't see anyone with more than 79 provs.

I'm still having fun with it, actually. And I have not yet reached my stated goal of being the last person actually playing.

[Executor]

Actually I think it's 50 victory points.

[chrispedersen]

The opening post says 200 territories 3 turns....
is that wrong?

[vfb]

Looks like that was just a suggestion in the OP, it says 50VP here:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?p=687971#post687971

Not sure if you have to hold them for 3 turns or not, you can scroll up from the link to see the discussion.

[Lingchih]

You know, I had 50 VP in my head, which is why I have been concentrating on VP provs, but I couldn't find where it said that. If so, then, we are even farther away from the victory condition.

I am 1/10 of the way there. A few others are closer.

[chrispedersen]

Oh dear god.

our game leader has 10vp.

[Lingchih]

I think everyone underestimated the size of this map, and how long this game would take. I mean, it's at least a year long game, maybe more. That's probably the reason for a lot of the dropouts.

And Chris, you originally came in to set Sauro to AI, right? And then decided to play?

[WingedDog]

Could there be an another delay of 24 hours? There was a small hurricane yesterday and I was unable to get home.
Sorry for inconvenience.
Many apologies WingedDog for not getting your delay request in time. Lady Luck holds a grudge against you I guess, as today was one of the very few days I was out of the works office all day. As if it had been practically any other day then I would have seen your request before the hosting deadline hit.

So sorry again :( and hope your stale wasn't critical in your war against the demon monkeys.

Took me a while to summon my courage to watch the turn. :) It could have been worse. Painful, but not deadly.
But streak of events isn't over for me. :) I need to reinstall the OS on my home PC. Could there be 24 hours delay?

[chrispedersen]

I think everyone underestimated the size of this map, and how long this game would take. I mean, it's at least a year long game, maybe more. That's probably the reason for a lot of the dropouts.

And Chris, you originally came in to set Sauro to AI, right? And then decided to play?

Er, sorta?

The game was advertised as seriously needing a sub due to problems with people dropping. The position was advertised as having prospects. So I wanted to help out.

It takes some time to really understand a position. In this particular case, UnOptimized had lots of very cool toys. Good research.

On the downside - he was overrun with more than 15 SC's. And had researched essentially no SC spells. So I immediately set about cleaning up the SCs, and the SC research. Learning the geography. Figuring out next research targets etc.

It took a turn or two for the realization to sort of sink in:

There are three problems: Just like zeldor (and other mid sized people are sorta saying) if you are midsized in this game - you have essentially no prospects. TC is *three* times my size.

Even that didn'tseem so bad except until you learn.. omg. The leader has achieved 20% of the victory conditions...in 55 turns we're talking about 275 turns here. Sure that can be widely off.. say its only 150 turns.

And lastly, this game is already at late dominions stage. My turns - which are taking call it 8 hours.... what happens if I get to 50 territories. Or 75. I'm still nowhere near *winning*... I've just dug myself.. further into hell....

So its definitely my fault for not getting the *size* of this undertaking.

Theres another problem: what are the chances of getting a free spawn, # of units, or other game ending bug? The odds are this game will finish because of real world effects: people dropping out of the game, or the game bombing.

I don't want to leave another nation open and AI (besides which I'm a nation next to TC, and that would just add fuel to the fire..... And I think I've made the position better. but damn.

So the short answer (lol) is I walked in expecting to evaluate the position and play it if it was tenable. What I didn't get was just how big this game was, and how much of a lead the three leaders have.

[Lingchih]

Well, I have 5 VP provs, and am building up. So, I have 10% of the Victory number. Not a bad prospect.

I am Pan, but Pan gets much stronger as the game progresses. And with my indies, I believe I have a viable prospect to at least make this a game.

Sure, I look like a mid level player right now, but that could change. The Gorgon alone is enough to make most players loathe to attack me. And with Charm and Petrify (which I have), and penetration boosters, I am a player to be reckoned with. I would like to keep playing.

[Calahan]

@ All - Game delayed 24 hours by request (Didn't miss it this time WingedDog :))

[Baalz]

Well I for one am still having fun with this game (thanks in so small part to my wonderful opponents). I also think that people are a bit too quick to think this is a runaway game, almost any 3 nations (other than the ones getting the bad end of a war right now) could work together and have a credible threat to TC. Any two of the top half. This game is so far from being decided I just can't wrap my head around this sentiment. Sure, if you're in the bottom half of the power ranking you've got virtually no chance of a shot for the win *by yourself* just like every other dominions game that's ever been played. If you're lamenting your lack of opportunity why not sniff around for others feeling the same and make some opportunity. I have to agree with Executor - if playing for a win is what you are trying to do then you've got to play to win.

Victory conditions were agreed to be 50 VPs (out of 100) as tracked by the llamaserver as the game settings would only allow 25 to be set. Before lamenting how far we are from a win I wouldn't discount how fast some of that stuff can consolidate. For instance, Lanka and Abysia are at war right now with no other participants. Assuming that war goes to completion the winner will be at 17 VPs. I'm not super clear on what exactly the other wars going on are, but I think it's likely over the next game year or so there will be a couple players in the high teens for VPs. Keep in mind that once people start getting into the high twenties we get to the point that the game leaders start considering how to do a rapid blitz for several VPs in a short time frame. Not necessarily gonna happen real fast but we're to the point of the game then that it could theoretically end very quickly - particularly if the smaller players decide that they don't have a shot at all and pitch in to support their leading ally's play for the win. I hope this game doesn't just drag on as a never ending stalemate, but I don't see why it necessarily would.

[Executor]

Still, I feel the VP's are very unevenly distributed. I control more provinces than both you and Abysia and have less victory points than either of you, only 7. Even Pangaea has more.

This game is probably gonna be decided by air drops on 4 VP provinces.

While we're on VP's, does the rule of holding them for 3 turns still apply?

[Zeldor]

Can I get 24h extension? I don't have much time for my turns, but don't want to turn AI.

[Calahan]

Can I get 24h extension? I don't have much time for my turns, but don't want to turn AI.
Delayed 24 hours as requested. Hope it helps in planning some Ulm hurt :)

[Jazzepi]

06:45 GMT on Friday July 17th Hosting delayed by 24 hours.
19:00 GMT on Saturday July 18th Hosting delayed by 12 hours.
22:30 GMT on Monday July 20th Hosting delayed by 24 hours.
07:35 GMT on Thursday July 23rd Hosting delayed by 24 hours.
23:10 GMT on Friday July 24th Hosting delayed by 24 hours.

In the past 7 days we've had an average of 15.42 hours of delays per day. This is going to have to come down if we ever hope to finish.

Jazzepi

[chrispedersen]

I have pm'd both moderators more than once. I need you to review my messages, and I'd like a delay of 24+ hours, please?

[Jazzepi]

/wrists

Jazzepi

[Revolution]

06:45 GMT on Friday July 17th Hosting delayed by 24 hours.
19:00 GMT on Saturday July 18th Hosting delayed by 12 hours.
22:30 GMT on Monday July 20th Hosting delayed by 24 hours.
07:35 GMT on Thursday July 23rd Hosting delayed by 24 hours.
23:10 GMT on Friday July 24th Hosting delayed by 24 hours.

In the past 7 days we've had an average of 15.42 hours of delays per day. This is going to have to come down if we ever hope to finish.

Jazzepi

brutal. - but, I'd rather see delays than have more people drop out/go ai.

[Calahan]

06:45 GMT on Friday July 17th Hosting delayed by 24 hours.
19:00 GMT on Saturday July 18th Hosting delayed by 12 hours.
22:30 GMT on Monday July 20th Hosting delayed by 24 hours.
07:35 GMT on Thursday July 23rd Hosting delayed by 24 hours.
23:10 GMT on Friday July 24th Hosting delayed by 24 hours.

In the past 7 days we've had an average of 15.42 hours of delays per day. This is going to have to come down if we ever hope to finish.

Jazzepi
I agree that this number of delays is far from ideal, but the alternative is so much worse that it's on a completely different level. As forcing nations to stale by denying delay requests will only increase the unbalance in this already seriously unbalanced game. And forcing nations to stale is also a sure way of encouraging them to turn AI, and we've certainly had enough of those here to last for several games. Unless players want this to become an even bigger AI-ganging orgy of course.

Maybe the number of delay requests also reflects how much some players are struggling with a 48 hour schedule. As with a game this size, turn time can increase substantially a lot sooner than it does in smaller games. So while switching to 72 hours at turn 53 is early for some games, here it could be considered late given the scale of the game. Although I personally am still ok with 48 hours.

Nobody has been abusing the delay requests in my opinion, and I'm pretty certain nobody here would do that anyway. So until further notice, or until Baalz smacks me down for being out of line as his admin deputy, requests to delay the game because of hurricane's, re-installation of operating systems, or just because of simple lack of time, will continue to be granted. As all of these are certainly within reason.

Although if a player says "Can I have a delay just because I want to hold the game up for no reason" then there's a good chance that will be declined.

[Lingchih]

Ahh, it all plays into Pan's hands. Yes, please, delay for weeks at a time if you like.

[Zeldor]

Huh, I forgot to give gems to somem ages in one place :P

BTW, defenders should never ever route from sieges, autodeath without a chane to fight is just stupid and unthematic.

[vfb]

Perhaps your troops were not thinking clearly. Had you been feeding them well?

I'm sure for every Leningrad there's a Kut or a Masada. I don't agree it's unthematic.

[WingedDog]

I'm sorry but I have to ask another 24 hour delay request, and perhabs for the next turn as well. My cat was injured, he was threated yesterday, but for the next 5 days I need to bring him to the clinic twice a day for injections.

[Calahan]

@ WingedDog - See, that what happens when you do something to annoy Baalz. Put up a global he doesn't like, and he sends an assassin after your cat. It's a harsh game, and these top players are willing to go to extreme lengths to pull out a win.

Just note Lingchih's subliminal messages for a further example. Yes, I hear them Lingchih.

"Your will is weak. You will never survive the winter. Leave the game now. While you can. While you are sane. Don't fight it. You can't fight it. Only the Maenads will remain."

@ All - Game delayed 24 hours for the well being of animals.

[Baalz]

I'm sorry but I have to ask another 24 hour delay request, and perhabs for the next turn as well. My cat was injured, he was threated yesterday, but for the next 5 days I need to bring him to the clinic twice a day for injections.

Done, just let me know if you need more for next turn.

[WingedDog]

Ummmm... thanks, but actually Calahan had provided the delay, and I already had submited my turn. :)

[Baalz]

Haha, ok, undid that:

The game will now host at 08:10 GMT on Wednesday July 29th.

[chrispedersen]

Baalz - you have to be very careful moving times forward.
Especially when you're making the turn due in shortly. People will go to sleep thinking they have a day - and wake up with it processed.

[Jazzepi]

IMO, if you ever move the game time forward, you should send out an e-mail to all the players via the message interface.

Jazzepi

[Calahan]

ooohh, always a risky one reducing the hosting deadline for any reason, even if it was only mistakenly increased for a short time.

I should be making it into work tomorrow before the deadline hits, so can I ask now what people's take is on me delaying the game at the last minute if necessary, should I see a bunch of players about to stale. According to the admin log, the game was only set for a Thursday hosting for 45 minutes, but that's still 45 minutes in which someone could have seen it and thought they had an extra day to submit their turn (as Chris rightly points out). And even though an email was sent out, if they've gone to bed, or just finished on the computer for the night (both very likely scenarios), then they won't know about the email until the morning, which will probably be too late.

So like I said, I could delay the game tomorrow at the last minute (although not a guarantee as traffic could delay my arrival in work) if I see players about to stale. But I won't do it unless I get a bit of 'all clear', as not everyone likes a 'pro-active' approach to helping players avoid staling. Although here I think it would be justified due to the temporary Thursday hosting situation. Currently 7 out of 12 turns outstanding, with just over ten and a half hours to hosting.

Would appreciate some thoughts on this overnight please :)

[Lingchih]

Dueling Admins! I like it. This too will play into Pan's hand.

[chrispedersen]

Well I've been called to the airport, and I won't make it back until 3am, at which point I will have 2 hours to finish the turn.

So I would like an extension.

[chrispedersen]

Just as a note:

A guy with armor of returning, and the ankh and the sword of virtue (among other things) gets hit with prison of fire.

On his turn, he tries to break free - and dies.
Not.. gets returned home.
Not .. turns into a soulless (as I have seen with other damage).. he just... dies. And 4 artifacts go poof.

Side note:

Did y'all know that when luck cancels a vampires damage, it does *not* cancel the drain?

[vfb]

If you don't "Hold a Turn" or cast a buff the first round you are in combat wearing Virtue (the armor), the effect just hits the empty square you started in. Do you see the "ritual of returning" icon on the guy in combat?

[Lingchih]

Sounds like a bug. But one I would doubt ever will be fixed. Work around it. Why the hell did you have all that stuff on him, anyhow?

[Lingchih]

Pan declares all peace treaties with Sauro null and void.

[chrispedersen]

I didn't. My predecessor did. I was *trying* to get him back to get the stuff off him.

[WingedDog]

Could there be a 24 hour delay for this turn? Same reason.

[Calahan]

Could there be a 24 hour delay for this turn? Same reason.
@ All - Game delayed 24 hours due to Lingchih's irresistible willpower. No sorry, due to WingedDog's injured feline.

@ Chris - I thought that bug you are describing above was due to a battle replay error your end? Since you said in your PM to me that Lolomo didn't see any of the things happening that you saw.

[chrispedersen]

No, I said Lolomo didn't see Ritual of Returning being cast on units (although he saw it present on one unit). I don't know how hard he looked you have to hit pause exactly the instant that the explosion sprite goes off - its hard to do.

We both agree on what happened with the holder of the artifacts.

[Zeldor]

Huh, smth happened with my turn - most of recruitment and movement orders were not followed at all. Like it was half-finished turn, problem is that I was doing it whole at once...

[Executor]

Have you been drinking again?:)

I tell him, No Zeldor, lay off the booze, but he just doesn't listen!

[Lingchih]

Pan declares all peace treaties with Sauro null and void.

Whoops, that was a #5. We're still good Sauro.

[Executor]

Anyone else loosing interest in this game?

[WingedDog]

Well, not me.
P.S. Players loosing interest in game also play in Pan's hand. :)

[Lingchih]

Yeah man, such a boring game. Why don't you all go ahead and just go AI. I'll clean up and turn the lights out when I'm done.

[vfb]

I've managed to get set up and submit my turn just in time. So, I shouldn't need a sub. Fomoria should only need a couple months to kill me anyway!

-- Caelum

[Executor]

Hahaha, now this turn was rather interesting...

[Lingchih]

OK, I'm not drunk (this time... well, not quite drunk), but I have become tired of all the wishy washy back and forth between Pan and Sauro. Our friendly (or seemingly friendly) relations are over. I may attack Sauro, or I may not, but the new sub needs to know that our relations are not friendly.

[Calahan]

@ Executor - Good to here that it only takes a 1k soulless army to reignite your interests in the game :)

@ All - Lavaere has agreed to take over control of Sauromatia from Chris Pedersen. So please direct all future Sauro matters that way.

@ ChrisP - Was it you or Lavaere who submitted the current Sauromatia turn? As admin (deputy) it would be useful to know that Lavaere is up and running as the sub, and that there were no problems with the handover.

@ ChrisP - If Lavaere hasn't done so already, can you please contact Lavaere to discuss in more detail the current happenings in Sauro so that the handover can be as smooth as possible, and free of nasty surprises. Thanks in Advance.

@ Lingchih, or anyone else fighting, or intending to fight Sauro - I advertised the Sauromaita sub position as being in no wars apart from with the Yomi AI. If this is not the case, or if there are ending NAP's etc with Sauromatia currently underway, then please let Lavaere know directly that attacks may be on the cards. Just in case ChrisP hasn't been in contact, or Lavaere isn't a regular thread checker. It would be a nice courtesy to an incoming sub, who lets not forget is doing every player in the game a favour by taking on Sauromatia.

I've never believed in a 'grace' or 'cease fire' period for incoming subs, but not letting subs know about NAP's, or pretending NAP's did/didn't exist etc, is a bit below the acceptable belt for me. Although Baalz is still main admin, so will have the call on this if it comes to that.

@ Lavaere - On behalf of everyone, "Welcome to the Game", "Best of Luck in becoming a Legend of Faerun", and "Many thanks from us, the players, for offering to sub-in as Sauromatia".

@ All - I may need a 24 hour delay for the current turn. I'm hoping to be able to get it done today, but I have a few other things to do as well, so it might not be possible. Fomoria giving me something new and troublesome to think about is also likely to double my required thinking time for the turn.

But I will post again later indicating whether or not I need a delay though, so that everyone is kept informed.

[Lavaere]

Don't worry Calahan I did the Sauro turn. And it was kinda to see some spells and items I've never used before.

[Calahan]

Thanks for checking in Lavaere :)

Have you been in touch with ChrisP yet to get a full de-brief on the Sauro position?

[WingedDog]

So, is the turn delayed or not?

[Calahan]

@ WingedDog/All - RE: Delay. I have the next two hours free in which to try and get most of my 'Dominions' stuff for the day done. During which time I hope to submit my Legends turn. So my original intention was to post again after this two hours to say whether or not I needed delay.

But it's probably preferable to everyone elses planning for the delay to be clear, so I'll err on the side of caution and delay the game now by 24 hours. Since it is now getting more and more doubtful that I'll be able to get my turn done today after all.

@ All - Game delayed 24 hours by my request, and my apologies for the hold-up.

[Lingchih]

I've PM'd Lavaere on the status of our relations, and won't do anything that could be considered NAP breaking.

[Executor]

Vfb, was that the big battle or is it yet to come? At least the Hills of the Dead Kings will need several more chambers added. :)

Calahan, I hope that's something new to think about. You'll have my full attention soon enough.

Maybe it wouldn't be bad to switch the game to a 72h hosting interval, we've entered the late stage of the game.

[WingedDog]

I support 72 hours. While I find game very interesting, have some troubles with free time lately.

[Calahan]

I'd welcome a switch to 72 hours. Last turn took me the best part of 4 hours to arrange, mostly due to thinking time (disadvantage of a slow brain). But I can't see future turns taking much less given the Fomoria invasion.

@ Executor - Yes, more to think about :) But wasn't exactly unexpected. Although initially learning of your access to that magic school, and to those levels, did cause me a surprise. And a concern :(

[Zeldor]

Ha, cool battle at my cap. I won't give it so easily :P

Can someone send me some gems? W, D and E please, small amounts :) All will be used to inflict some small pain to Ulm if he storms again.

[Baalz]

Ok, updated hosting to 72 hours. I didn't receive this turn, but did receive it when I requested a turn resend, so it looks like the llamaserver bug is resurfacing. Everyone should have got a new turn this morning (8-4) so request a resend if you didn't.

[vfb]

Vfb, was that the big battle or is it yet to come? At least the Hills of the Dead Kings will need several more chambers added. :)

Calahan, I hope that's something new to think about. You'll have my full attention soon enough.

Maybe it wouldn't be bad to switch the game to a 72h hosting interval, we've entered the late stage of the game.

Caelum is overrun! A vast horde of giants has swarmed over our border, and there is little we can do to stop the huge creatures from plundering our lands.

We appreciate the opportunity to go down fighting, and would be glad to join those Fomorians who perish with us in a toast of ale in the underworld. But where are the Morrigans? We will be terribly disappointed if we do not have some female company for our god.

-- Caelum

[WingedDog]

Announcement:
There are 2 long term trips for me in the next 3 weeks and my notebook refuses to load Winows. I depart today, and if I'm unable to fix it fast - I would be totaly unable to play until next Tuesday. If I do not post anything in the next 12 hours - means I lost my battle with modern electronics and admins should handle this situation the way they find apropriate. Sorry for inconvenience. :(

[Baalz]

Ug, as not being unbiased myself (I'm in the throws of a fight with Wingeddog and would rather not have it decided by staling) I suppose I'll solicit opinions as to what the other players would like to do. Sounds like a delay would be turns not due for almost a week from now (Friday -> Tuesday) and my fear is that if somebody else needs a delay shortly after it (that I can hardly deny after granting this one) it might torpedo interest in this game if we're submitting one turn over a two week period. What do you guys think? Despite my personal interest in holding up the game I think I'm feeling like I'm gonna have to let WD stale if he can't come up with a solution. Sucks as it sounds like he had a plan to take his turns that didn't pan out at the last minute, maybe (if you haven't left already) you might be able to find a last minute sub to take a turn for you?

[Executor]

Well If WD can't get his turn in, a temporary sub should be found.
It would only be for two turns.

[LoloMo]

I'm for getting a temp sub rather than the alternatives.

[WingedDog]

Hallelujah, it works! I'll be able to submit the turn. Sorry for false alarm.

[Calahan]

That's great news WingedDog :) I was just about to fight your corner by saying we should put the game on hold for you until Tuesday. As your war is probably at too critical a stage to have subs or stales involved, as they could easily lay waste to your kingdom in a single turn.

But I can now direct my fighting energy exclusively in the direction of Fomoria. Now then, where did I leave my giant killing axe to?

[WingedDog]

Barely made it in time. Didn't have much time for it and many things left untouched. But it is better then staling, I suppose. May I have a delay till Tuesday for the next turn? Very busy this days, I'll find a temp sub for me for my next trip.

[Executor]

ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!! :envy:
WTF!? Those even weren't my battle orders!
That's what happens when you don't test things out!
Greed will be the end of me...

[Calahan]

Barely made it in time. Didn't have much time for it and many things left untouched. But it is better then staling, I suppose. May I have a delay till Tuesday for the next turn? Very busy this days, I'll find a temp sub for me for my next trip.
A delay until Tuesday is ok with me. Although I will wait to hear the views of others though before taking any action. The current turn deadline is Monday 05:55am (llamaserver time) so a delay until Tuesday would only mean 24-42 hours, depending on which hours of Tuesday need to be covered by the delay. So not a huge delay by any means.

It would also give me more free time to go out this weekend :) As it appears to have finally stopped raining here in Wales. I can even see a blue sky :happy:

[Baalz]

Hosting postponed for Legends_Of_Faerun by 36 hours. The game will now host at 17:55 GMT on Tuesday August 11th.

A delay of a day is much more palatable. :)

[Baalz]

It would also give me more free time to go out this weekend :) As it appears to have finally stopped raining here in Wales. I can even see a blue sky :happy:

Seems to still be raining Formorian Kings however...

[Calahan]

It would also give me more free time to go out this weekend :) As it appears to have finally stopped raining here in Wales. I can even see a blue sky :happy:

Seems to still be raining Formorian Kings however...
:laugh: Yeah, all sorts of things have been falling from the skies over Agartha. Demons, giants, ghosts, castles. I'm expecting Dorothy to appear any minute now. Even built her a road in anticipation :)

[vfb]

ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!! :envy:
WTF!? Those even weren't my battle orders!
That's what happens when you don't test things out!
Greed will be the end of me...

No no no, please send more giants! Caelum will descend to the underworld on wings of death and glory! Our prophet does not wish to spend his days as a charmed slave of Fomoria, if that's what you had intended.

[Executor]

That is exactly what I intended.
It seems that my commanders chose to disobey and disregard my orders, if they weren't dead I'd kill them myself.
By the Gods Helsdoom will be my slave before you meet your end, and that sneaking ghost of his isn't gonna help him!

Would Cealum and Agartha mind stepping out of their forts and stop hiding?

[Calahan]

Would Cealum and Agartha mind stepping out of their forts and stop hiding?
I will once the weather improves!

[Executor]

It's just gonna get darker and darker, unless you pay a tribute of 300 death gems and kill the one responsible for stealing away my Well!!!

[Calahan]

It's just gonna get darker and darker
Looks like I'll finally get some use out of my darkvision then :)
unless you pay a tribute of 300 death gems and kill the one responsible for stealing away my Well!!!
Sorry, can't do that. Now that I've lost all my water provinces, death gems are the only thing I have left to swim in :p

[WingedDog]

I know I'm a pain in arse, but could there please be extra 3 hours delay? Wouldn't be able to send a turn otherwise.

[Calahan]

I know I'm a pain in arse, but could there please be extra 3 hours delay? Wouldn't be able to send a turn otherwise.
No problems WingedDog. I'd much rather tiny 'pain in the arses' who ask for delays, than big 'pain in the arses' who start staling then bailing.

[Baalz]

Haha, you're a pain in the *** alright, but only because you're too clever by half with your troop deployments. ;)

[Calahan]

Haha, arse doesn't get censored but *** does. So arse kicks ***'s arse! :D

[Executor]

I am one god damn idiot! I forgot to put battle orders against Cealum!
Note to self, when you think you forgot to do something, maybe you did.

Oh, well of course! All the damn troops retreat to a province with no damn supplies!

Sigh... the funny part is that this is not the worst thing that happened...

Wicked...
I think I got ***** slapped this turn.

[Lingchih]

Hi all. I need a crystal coin. Despite sifting through all my various flavors of mages, I can't seem to find one that can make it. So, despite my better judgement, I will pay well for one.

I can pay in nature, air, earth, astral, or any combination of those. Please PM me an offer if interested.

-Pangaea

[vfb]

I am one god damn idiot! I forgot to put battle orders against Cealum!
Note to self, when you think you forgot to do something, maybe you did.

Oh, well of course! All the damn troops retreat to a province with no damn supplies!

Sigh... the funny part is that this is not the worst thing that happened...

Wicked...
I think I got ***** slapped this turn.

Well, you killed my prophet Helsdoom this month. Sad that he almost made it through your blood slave chaff before the last Life for a Life took him.

Never mind, I will make a new prophet out of the Fomorian King I captured in the battle outside the walls of my capitol. :)

-- Caelum

[WingedDog]

Ladies and gentleman: gatestone has been removed from Faerun! Who's going to forge it first now?

[Calahan]

@ All - I've had to add 24 hours to the deadline at my own request due to a family problem that has just occured this morning. The net result of which means I won't be at home again until tomorrow afternoon, so will have no chance to finish off my turn and send it in before today's hosting deadline.

Many apologies everyone for the delay. Although it appears that most players turns have yet to be sent in, so maybe a few are thankful of the extra time.

[WingedDog]

I teporary give up Abysia to the guidance of Frozen Lama. All diplomacy correspondence should be adressed to him.

[Executor]

I know the game has already been delayed, but I'm having problems entering my email.
I sent in the Forgeofgodhood turn and was about to send Faerun, but took a look at an email I just received from a friend, it was mylazysundays so I had to shut down everything, of course I'm plotting his assassination for this now, but I can't seem to enter my email account for the time being. So if you could add a few more hours to the clock? Please?

[Calahan]

I've add 4 hours for you Executor. Will that be enough do you think? Just noticed your PM as well on the same issue. Sorry I didn't notice it earlier, for some reason I didn't get that new message box pop-up to notify me of it.

[Lingchih]

Why don't you just get a quickie webmail account, Executor, and send the turn from there? You just need to include the name of the game for llamaserver to recognize it, and send it to turns (at) llamaserver.net

[Calahan]

@ All - I've had a PM from Executor, and he should hopefully be sorting his email problem out one way or the other within the next few hours. So the game should be hosting (with Fomoria's turn) before noon today (llamaserver time). Will keep you all informed if there are any changes to this.

[Executor]

OK, time for plan B.

[Baalz]

Silverback studied the map. This would not do. The Abysians had proven to be truly intractable foes, digging into their fiery mountains and extracting a large price for each stone painfully dug from their grasp. Immense piles of smoldering undead littered the landscape and more demon bodies than Silverback cared to think about. The losses were far from one sided, and the Abysians seemed to be weakening but far too slowly. While the mighty Lankan armies bloodied their fists pounding burning rock men from their entrenched positions ominous dark clouds built on the far horizons.

Aggressive Fomorian war parties marched unchecked across the land, gobbling up nation after nation. Their size grew and grew, and soon the war mongers would dwarf the size of Lanka while wrapping a border half way around her lands. The rock men of Abysia possessed a wicked cunning on the battlefield, but in diplomatic arenas their geomorphic heritage showed and they seemed unable to understand the concept of a mutually beneficial peace. With his back against the rocks, Silverback chose not to wait for the hammer of Formoria to swing down.

Pouring through ancient tomes he searched for an answer. Night and day candles burned in the lab and servants tried desperately to not be one of the ones present when Silverback expressed his frustration. A steady stream of new servants were brought in as replacements, praying to stay out of sight. After an entire fortnight of the entire Lanka capital treading lightly a breakthrough was discovered and all breathed a little easier. Well, almost all.

From one end of Lanka to the other virgins were snatched from their families. Long trains of bound blood slaves trailed throughout the empire, all funneling into the Lanka capital. For months they streamed in, special paddocks were erected on the palace grounds and great troughs constructed to feed them. As the press of female flesh began to look like it might burst the dam of the paddock and flow out the palace like blood from a slit jugular, Silverback’s command was fulfilled. Fifty score virginal blood slaves were entranced and lined up in a grand queue wrapping around the palace. In one bloody night the blood of all of them flowed into a mighty work and something ancient was awakened. Something dark and terrible.

An ancient, nameless pretender god, the Pantokrator’s one time rival still thirsted for blood. The lifeforce of a thousand virgins sated her hunger for a time and in exchange she sent forth her acolytes to destroy the enemies of Lanka. Throughout the Fomorian lands burning meteors fell from the sky. Yet where they fell stood not a rock but a divine anti-angel broken free from the netherworld and come for blood. Scores fell from the sky across every corner of the Fomorian land, and where their shadow fell blood ran deep and red. Hot on their heels flocks of imps and demons blotted out the moon as they swooped to claw at the screaming and cowering giant peasants. On the single night that Fomorians now call the Night of Blood nearly half of the mighty Fomoria burned and the remainder stood in shock as the morning light revealed the bloodthirsty Dakini eying the remainder of the giant lands.

[Zeldor]

Didn't expect Ulm to be so scared and unable to storm, huh.

[Revolution]

Didn't expect Ulm to be so scared and unable to storm, huh.

And I expected you to go AI after the first time I rushed in and stormed like you said you would

"Can you attack me with all you have on my cap that turn? I want to see at least one last cool battle So I can freely set my nation AI [but well, you will probably get my cap, I didn't prepare well for it, well, I didn't care about that game, so no preparations made, but I want to see some fireworks at least]."


A cost of a bunch of unnecessary losses and you stuck around. Nope, if you want to fight then you can come out from behind your walls.

[Zeldor]

Well, I expected you to actually win that fight. Or cause me some losses :)

[Calahan]

@ All

Executor has requested a delay of 24 hours, which has been granted.

Hurray, the nation of Monkeys and Blind Earth Thingies are making him think :)

[Baalz]

I was going for "bleed", but I suppose I'll settle for "think"

[Calahan]

@ All

When Executor PM-ed me about needing his delay, he said he might need more than 24 hours depending on how long he needed to sort out some RL stuff. So I told him I'd keep an eye on the deadline for him and extended if necessary.

But the deadline is currently due to fall at a time when I might not be able to keep a close eye on it, so I am adding 2 hours to be on the safe side, just in case Executor's turn isn't in by the time the game is due to host. As I'm pretty sure a stale is the last thing on Fomoria's to-do list right now.

Apologies for the delay everyone, but bandaging up some battered and bruised giants does take a fair bit of time :)

[Lingchih]

A sub, perhaps, for Fomoria? If his RL probs take precedence. But, this game is so slow, I don't think we need 1 week turns. I know we are trying to keep everyone in the game, but at some point the game must go on.

[Calahan]

@ All

Executor is still very much around. From the PM's he's been sending me, it seems he's just been having a busy few days that have been limiting his Dominions time. But I'm confident Fomoria won't be needing a sub any time soon, and besides, it wouldn't feel the same for Agartha to be getting their revenge on some innocent sub :)

The delays for the email problem Executor had a few days ago can certainly be counted as a one off IMO. (Vista to blame somehow I'd guess. Since Vista is always to blame)


I've had another PM from Executor overnight asking for a further 6 hour delay, as he wants to get some sleep before finishing up his turn. The total delay for this turn has only been 32 hours (with this 6 hours), which isn't really OTT. Maybe it just seems like more because I'm posting about when the delays are happening.

It's also not difficult to imagine a Fomoria turn taking 6+ hours right now given the size of their empire, and the numerous war fronts they are fighting on. So giving the big guys extra time to sort their affairs out is fine in my books.

Apologies again for the delay though. Not great for the pace of the game, but I have no reason to think the delays haven't all been for genuine reasons.

[Executor]

Sorry everyone, I'm moving next month so I'm looking for a new flat, and that's not really easy.

Lingch, I don't know if I'll have internet when I move but for now I'm still here, more or less, and handing Fomoria to a sub at this point would almost certainly be suicide IMO.
I know there have been more than a few delays in the last week or so because of me, but I'm pretty sure my turns take the longest to do given my current situation and all the wars I'm currently in.
I don't really mind that, however if you folks want me to play my turns a bit faster you'll have to stop attacking me!!!:)

[Executor]

Sigh,
It's gonna take a lot of time to watch all the battles, 56 total this turn.
I guess the enemy offensive is slowing down, it was 57 battles last turn! :)

Bravo Calahan, it seems you've invested a bigger amount of gems than I have.

I don't know, Baalz, Calahan, was this a good turn or was it a bad turn for you?
Don't have the time to check my out right now...

[Baalz]

Sigh,
It's gonna take a lot of time to watch all the battles, 56 total this turn.
I guess the enemy offensive is slowing down, it was 57 battles last turn! :)


Well yeah, you killed that one guy...


Bravo Calahan, it seems you've invested a bigger amount of gems than I have.

I don't know, Baalz, Calahan, was this a good turn or was it a bad turn for you?
Don't have the time to check my out right now...

I'm not sure, I'm at intermission - 47 fights on my end. Seems like I came out on top mostly. Looks like I lost several thug raiders, you lost more troops, SCs & mages.

I particularly like the fight where the Dakini very nearly won vs frozen heart spam by a combination of mistform, regen, lifedrain, blood vengeance, holy avenger & your druid for some reason deciding to freeze blood slaves. 3 druids with bodyguards vs 1 Dakini with no cold resistance and she killed 2 of them then ran away. She gets a medal!

[Lingchih]

Sorry Executor. I get impatient on these long-turn games. I realize you have a lot more going on than I do.

[Calahan]

I don't know, Baalz, Calahan, was this a good turn or was it a bad turn for you?
I'd definitely have to report in as bad. Had only one hero, or more accurately, Heroine, survive our clash. And your diseased mage done his intended job admirably.

... I get impatient on these long-turn games....
Ha Ha, looks like the Pangaean propaganda machine is starting to backfire :)

"Yes, get impatient Pangaea. Hear the word of Pangaea and feel despair. Leave this world Pangaea. You can not resist the will of Pangaea. Pangaea must flee now and leave this world to Pangaea."

[Lingchih]

Well, I wasn't at war before, so it didn't really matter if the turn took a week. Now that I am in a real shooting war, my propaganda machine has backfired on me, and my leaders want to see if we won or if we need to run ;)

[Calahan]

@ All

I've had a 48 hour delay request from WingedDog. Even though he has already submitted a turn for Abysia, he has kindly asked for an extension as much of his turn needs to be re-thought and re-done, and he has no time available to do that within the next 24 hours or so (which is why he has asked for 48 hours rather than 24 hours)

It appears events for Abysia under the recent stewardship has not been kind to the Burning Ones, and many of their former directives are now no longer viable as a result. So they humbly seek extra time to consult with their wise council of Annointed's, so as to formulate a new Monkey culling agenda.

[Calahan]

@ All

Ok, I'll start with a :doh::doh: I totally forgot to upload my turn this morning before going into work, and some after work plans mean I won't be getting home at my usual time. Blame entirely goes on my cheap crappy alarm clock that decided that it was a good idea for me to have a lie in bed this morning. Why should it care if I go to work on time or not?!

Result is I'll need an extra 4 hours to make sure I get home in time to send my turn in before the deadline hits. Haven't sent my turn in earlier as I was holding it back so that the game didn't auto-host before WingedDog had submitted his revised Abysia turn. Could/should have just turned the auto-host off for this, but didn't want to spread any panic or alarm.

Apologies again for my lack of memory. I'll donate some more test subjects to the Fomorian Warrior Academy this turn as my punishment. Can't have those friendly giants going short of things to kill after all.

[WingedDog]

I have returned from my vacation to find my Empire in ruins. Can't blame Frozen Lama, as it is my fault I didn't give him the presice instructions.
Anyway, Abysia isn't a competive nation anymore, and perhabs it is for the best, as I have time problems recently. I have already placed a sub announcement.
I'm still able to provide delays for 'Art of War' and play 'YARG', since 20-30 minutes I need to complete my turn there are much easier to find comparing to 5-8 hours I need for a propper turn in 'Legends' (mostly becouse of cunning wit of my opponent). :)
I'd like to thenk everybody for the game I enjoyed, especially Baalz. Hope to meet you in the future battles.

[Lingchih]

Man, that's a shame. Another nation gone. It only goes to show the eventual rule of Pangaea. though.

[vfb]

Caelum's celebrations over our successful expulsion of the majority of Fomorians from our lands were cut short when we discovered that the giants had been caught with thier pants down.

It appears the Fomorian troops had not received any orders from above last month, so instead of regrouping and marching off into battle, they instead visited the many fine establishments of boozing, gambling, and whoring that can be found in the exciting countryside of Caelum. They were completely unprepared for our assault.

Is there any news from their fearless leader?

[Baalz]

Indeed WingedDog, you were a most worthwhile opponent.

So, I understand Executor is getting a sub for Fomoria, but it's uncertain if this is a permanent position. WingedDog will, I think, unfortunately have a hard time finding a sub. If these two nations go AI we're left with the following major nations being played:

Lanka
Agartha
Ulm
Helheim
Arga Dis
Pangaea
TC

So, I wanted to see how you guys were feeling. Ulm staled this last turn and I get the feeling there is maybe a general loosing of steam. So, I just wanted to poll the general feeling among the rest of the players, do we forge on with the Legend?

[Lingchih]

Ahh, and it all goes according to plan to Pan. Of course, Pan will keep playing.

Muhaahaaa.

[LoloMo]

Arga Dis will not be outlasted by Pan and will keep playing until the Plan of Pan falls apart :D

[Jazzepi]

I'm happy to continue.

Jazzepi

[Calahan]

Pan's message hasn't yet penetrated the underground caverns, so Agartha will happily continue to contribute to the Legend.

@ Executor - Many apologies for the stale. I was away from the internet all day when the last deadline hit, and as such didn't get your delay request in time. Only managed to upload my own turn with a few minutes to spare upon returning home in the evening. But it was just a strict emailing job, and I didn't log onto the forums at the time to catch your PM.

@ All - Can you all please ensure that all delay requests (although I hope we can greatly limit them from now on) are PM-ed to me AND Baalz, AND posted on this thread. I'm usually pretty reliable for catching last minute delay requests that are PM-ed just to me, but if I'm not around the forums/internet near the hosting deadline, then there's not much I can do with regards arranging the delay. So it's always safest to tell as many admins as possible, and post on the thread as well for extra security (my 'new PM' pop-up box is very unreliable at the moment as well for some reason)


re: drop outs/subs - It looks like WingedDog (definite) and Executor (probable) are both having to sadly step out of this game due to RL circumstances. WingedDog may have a potential sub lined up already (judging from his sub-hunting thread), and Executor may also have someone who will sub for him. But as yet neither are confirmed as far as I know. Will let you all know more when/if something develops.

[Falkor]

I will continue as well.

[Executor]

ALL, sorry to bail like this, but I can't handle the time the turns demand.
The sad part is that those wars with Cealum/Lanka/agartha can be turned around with a little extra effort.
I was unable to find a sub, so I've posted a sub thread, I hope someone will answer it since it would be a shame that a powerful nation like Fomoria be turned AI.

Good luck to the rest of you.

[Lingchih]

Ahhh. Six stales, including several double stales. I like it.

It's all falling into place.

[Zeldor]

There was a new turn? I didn't even get a previous one. Now just got new one. Not the first time in that game.

[Lingchih]

There was a new turn? I didn't even get a previous one. Now just got new one. Not the first time in that game.

I think the llamaserver has gotten a little glitzy on automatically sending out it's new turns. I've seen the complaint here and in some other games. You have to go hit the "resend turn" button on the llamaserver web site to get your turn sent sometimes. I've had to do it once.

You've staled three turns in a row though Zeldor. I thought you had quit. Admittedly, there's not much for you to do. Of course, Ulm is staling too, so no harm done to you. It's kind of funny actually, like a war suddenly caught in a freeze-frame.

[Calahan]

Wow, don't think I've ever been in a game where 50% of the players staled a single turn. Maybe last turn, the absence of this game's usual 'at least one delay every turn' schedule caught some players out?

Re: The stalers -

I'm hoping the Helheim stale was a one off, since it was Falkor's first in this game. And now that Zeldor has popped his head in again, I'm hoping that will put an end to the Atlantis stales.

WingedDog has hopefully now found a sub for Abysia in the form of AdmiralZhao. A subbing offer for which many thanks are certainly due. So the Abysia stales should now come to an end.

No idea what has happened to Revolution (Ulm). His profile stamp says he hasn't been on the forums since the 27th (two days ago). Which goes some way to explaining the last stale, but less so towards the one immediately before that. Doing a little digging finds me the Asia Twist game which PashaDawg is running. On that thread, PashaDawg makes recent mention of the Caelum player dropping out due to a vacation. And the first post of that game indicates that Caelum is played by Revolution. I will PM Revolution to find out what's happening. And also PM PashaDawg to find out if Caelum in his Asia Twist game was being played by Revolution until recently or not (because if so, then we have an answer for what happened to Revolution)

Executor has posted a sub-hunt thread for Fomoria, but no takers yet as far as I know. Think they will be tricky to find a sub for because they are not a dying nation in any sense (like Abysia probably are), so it's not a question of putting up a last ditch defence. But this then means that anyone coming in will have to put in a huge amount of time to get anything out of them. And players with 5+ hours of free time every few days are pretty hard to come by.

Edit: Sauromatia also staled the last turn, but they have already submitted their current turn, so hoping the stale last turn was a one off for them.

Will keep you all informed with any developments on all of the above.

[Baalz]

Maybe I should ask this another way: do we have critical mass to continue? The alternative is to start another game, so the question is with this many stales, drops, and open sub requests maybe it's better to do that? I know I'm having real trouble finding the motivation to do a several hour turn only to have my opponents staling. I'd rather not limp along just for the sake of limping along, and this game has been absolutely atrocious as far as people dropping out.

So, let me ask it this way, out of the remaining players how many really want to continue and would object to calling it over? I'm happy to keep playing if a bunch of other people are still having a lot of fun with this game, but if most of the remaining players think they'd have more fun in a fresh game full of people then that's my vote.

[Zeldor]

TC needs only 28 more VPs to win :P

[Lingchih]

Actually, I'm still having a blast with this game, but I may be the only one.

I'm more than happy the end it though if you declare me the winner :)

[Jazzepi]

I'm still playing, but if this game goes, I'm dropping out of Beardaxe, and focusing on Zebra, and Aquamarine. Hopefully they'll be more interesting.

Jazzepi

[Lingchih]

Actually, if we end it, Jazz should probably be the winner... he has the most VPs. But honestly, no one has come close to the victory conditions. Should probably just be called a draw due to non-interest.

I'm just now bringing out my vine critter hordes, which is why I wanted to continue.

[Calahan]

I can't say I'd lose any sleep over this game ending right now. I wouldn't put this game in the 'fun' category, but neither has it slipped into the 'pain in the arse' one yet.

But I think the credibility of this game has been questionable for a long time due to the insane number of drop-outs we have had, and I don't see any way a winner can be declared until there have been a lot more human v human wars. Human v AI wars are something to feel shame over, and are certainly not an achievement.

What has annoyed me most I think is that there has been a regular pattern in this game of.... we lose some good nations to the AI (eg. Nief / Van) and the game turns farcical for a while, but recovers. Then the moment the game gets back on track, we lose another load of good nations (Oceania / Yomi). And now once again, just as we're getting over that round of loses, we're hit by the huge lose of Fomoria, maybe Ulm, and a sub for Abysia. I am struggling to see how this game can continue in it's present form unless human homes can be found for the stalers. As more AI's would just be the last straw IMO.

If it comes to a vote then I'd go with calling this game void / undecided, and starting afresh. Although if the scale is the same, I'd only be interested in playing if there was some serious vetting of players done for the sign-up. I really don't want to be prejudiced against new / unknown players, but there has to be some form of vouching for players for large scale games. Maybe 2-3 positive references for each player signing up. And while I don't feel that annoyed at having spent 100+ hours on this game for no reward, as I did enjoy many parts of it (and reward as in a proper conclusion). But I would be reluctant to go into such a game in the future if I knew there was a high chance of it becoming another AI-infested joke by turn 40.


Re: Revolution - I've heard from PashaDawg, and apparently Revolution has gone on vacation (it was him playing Caelum in PashaDawg's Asia Twist game). So Ulm are likely to continue staling for the foreseeable future if nothing is done.

[Executor]

Sorry to see this game end so sadly, I rather enjoyed it while I was in in.

However I agree with Calahan about large scale games,
it's a little harsh not to allow anyone to join but having such large games where people drop out like here, like I did :), is very irresponsible and very easily tilts the balance of the game.
Only people who can commit to the game should be able to join, and don't bail when any little thing goes wrong.

I was in another damn large game with 400 provinces, and at one point we had more AI's than human players, and quite a lot more.
So, some sort of vouching system or alike is a must for larger games I feel.

[Baalz]

Alright, sounds like far more people are tepid about continuing this game which I'm sure will lead to even more drop outs. By the powers vested in me as game admin I declare everyone who's played till now a winner! Congrats all around.

[Zeldor]

If you want to play that map again you need to make preplaced starting locations really. As many locations as players exactly. And some parts of the map may need tweaking [well, probably population of provinces made by hand]. Of course Burnsabers UWGEM should be added too, for so much water available here. Water is extremely boring here.

[Jazzepi]

I'm pretty sure I had this game in the bag, unless there was some enomorous multi-nation rallying that I couldn't handle, since I've had the chalice for the last, I dunno, twenty turns or something. I was also sitting on top of the 60% blood discount site, and my blood economy was justtt coming into its own. Next turn I would have had around 15 or so vampire counts. I was casting wish every turn off of Rhodium, my pretender, either for blood slaves or gems. Multiple well equipped tarts running around, and a cubic ton of fulled equipped golems. I've included my most recent game turn for your purview.

This has been an extremely frustrating experience for me because I didn't make my neighbors go AI, but I got surrounded by people dropping out. The only real fight I had was with Arco at the very beginning of the game, and from then on out it was basically steam roll. Trumantor wasn't AI at the beginning of the fight, but he didn't put any PD in any of his provinces, so I seeded them with scouts and took a bunch at the beginning. His Jarl bless was pretty useless as well, and him getting turned to AI was probably better than what would have happened otherwise.

I even thought I had excellent battle plans picked out against Sauro, Yomi, and Oceanian but I never really needed to use anything that complicated against any of them when they went AI. Then Burnsaber went AI and I got into the water otherwise it would have belonged entirely to Helheim.

But I'm tired of Calahan whining about people going AI giving others unfair advantages, and then saying stuff like this "Human v AI wars are something to feel shame over, and are certainly not an achievement." Which is clearly aimed solely at me, and what the **** ever, I don't feel shame because my neighbors submitted "turn me to AI" commands, I didn't do anything wrong.

And Baalz breaking his own pledge. I mean, really?, no effort to find a sub for Lanka, or Ulm, both fine positions, and then declaring the game over without any real consensus. TBH, it probably would be useless to try to stuff subs into those positions at this point, but the whole thing still reeks of hypocrisy.

Nobody wants to play in unfun games. I certainly don't, but I was hoping I would finally get to fight some real people in the next couple of turns. I figured Ulm would rally against me with Lanka, and possibly Argatha Dis, and there would be some interesting multi-nation fighting, but then the constant granting of extensions causing everyone to mass stale, the people going AI, and the sudden declaration of the game being over really ruined any prospects of me bringing any kind of force to bear.

Jazzepi

[Zeldor]

Jazzepi:

I know the pain. But I had 2 games [same time, same nation!] with very good chances to win. But both ended in a draw [I was an admin in one], because of either people going AI or general lost of interest. It sucks after investing so much time and killing some people and really building nice powerhouse [like 75% forge bonus on Nataraja].

[Calahan]

@ Jazzepi

My comments about the wars against the AI were aimed at the entire game, and not at any individual(s). I apologise if you thought my comments were aimed at you, but I'm not sure what I can do if our past disagreements and whatever grudges you hold against me, results in you interpreting my comments as being directed at you.

Several nations made huge gains when their neighbours went AI, and it's impossible to deny that it seriously affected the course of this game in a very negative way. I know nobody asked to have AI neighbours, nor am I suggesting that anyone did anything wrong in having AI neighbours. But none of this has any relevance to the fact that too many nations gained powerful positions in this game due to staling or AI neighbours. And this directly affected the credibility of the game, and played a significant part in the decision to end the game without a winner. (and just one of several reasons why I whine whenever I see the AI appearing in games)

And I also intend to continue to whine and moan about players turning AI or dropping out of games until I see an improvement. As I am very tired of my games being disrupted or ruined by it happening, and my time wasted as a result. Such as the fine example on offer here. If anyone claims that nations turning AI is either a good thing, or something that doesn't have a huge effect on the outcome of games, then they are pretty much delusional as far as I'm concerned.

[Baalz]

Are you f-ing kidding me Jazz? If it makes you feel any better, ok Jazz won. Hurrah for him, well played. All hail the brilliant strategist who dominated all!

It boggles my mind that you can in one breath complain that it's not your fault that you were handed a position to chain wish every turn and milk a massive blood economy, then in the next complain that "your" victory was snatched from you by the very same thing. I very much abhor the way this game has gone and it irks me more than a little to have your little whiny fit point fingers at me as being indicative of the problem. This game was trashed by all the people dropping and I'm at least as ticked about it as you, it's mind boggling that you lash out at me. As I stated I'd be happy to keep playing if there were several people still significantly invested in this game, but my feel was that most players are phoning it in at this point with half the nations staling, people fighting AIs, etc. I don't feel right asking multiple subs to come in at this point given the scarcity of subs lately, nor to ask several people tepid about the game to spend hours each turn fighting AIs *only to be eventually crushed by the guy who milked a massive early advantage handed to him*.

This isn't about finding a sub for Lanka, I'm not sure where the hell you got the idea that this is about me. There's an Aby sub coming in. There's an unfulfilled request for a Fomoria sub. There's a need for an Ulm sub. Several of the remaining players have mentioned they're not super keen to keep playing with all the mess from the drops. This game is limping along something fierce.

So good job Jazz, you won a victory you can feel proud of. Just take your whining elsewhere.

[Lingchih]

Ahh, since Jazz is my underling, I guess this is a Pan win then? Wonderful... a first. I would like to thank God (me), and all my wonderful underlings for this win. It really humbles me.

[vfb]

The free and independent republic of Caelum lizards (yeah, that's pretty much all that I had left at the end) rejects any and all foreign claims to our territory. We threw those sneaky Norse usurpers out of our provinces, and we evicted from our swamps the ugly overgrown cripples who came next.

Long live the free Caelum Lizard Republic.


P.S. Mucho thanks to Helheim and Fomoria for a couple of really fun wars!

[chrispedersen]

I don't know whats up - but I think its almost impossible now to get 10-20 players to commit to a game that should last a year.
Too small a probability the game will finish. Too huge an investment in time considering the likelihood that the game won't finish.

I'd like to second what others said- it almost has to be a clique of players that know each other.

I'd also like to suggest that you have a couple of admins/standbyes.

They're purpose would be to play a turn or two whenever nations started to look as if they were going to stale.

[Revolution]

back from vacation (sorry I didn't mention it, I had planned to be able to continue to do these turns and maybe just eat one stale...) but I gotta go to work and won't be able to get my turn in in time. A 4 hour extension would be nice but if you don't see this in time it's ok if I stale again, my fault for not finding a sub and whatnot.

[duncanshriek]

Hi

I'm posting here because there can be a bunch of veterans expected with newly gained free time to spend.

I'm looking for a sub in ComfortZone for Jotunheim.

There are 1 and 1/2 other competitors left for winning that game.
Jotuns income in turn 108 was around 500 gems, 500 slaves and 10000 gold.
It would be nice if somebody would spend that income more skillfully than me.