Legends of Faerun - Closed (Game started)

[Baalz]

I want to put together an epic scale game on the Faerun map with full specials. This will be a very large game, the map has 466 provinces and I’m hoping to fill every EA slot (24 nations) meaning this game will run long. The special sites significantly cuts down on the initial provinces available per player, so that's not quite as many as it first seems. I’m also strongly encouraging roleplaying and AARs. Nothing formal or of the scale of the chronicle games, but in-character descriptions of major battles, trash talk and begging/trading would be great.

This is not a game for newbies. Don’t be intimidated if you don’t consider yourself a dominions master, but I’ve had a poor track record of fresh faces dropping out without a word leaving the game in a lurch. If you’re not somebody I recognize, convince me you’re committed to at least try to line up your own sub if you lose interest. This is a big game representing a lot of effort from a lot of people. Signing up for this game is a commitment to all the other players and disappearing is pretty low even if you’ve lost interest.

Nations will be randomly assigned. Each person signing up will choose two nations who they don’t want to play. I’ll randomly assign the nations according to those constraints after I close signups.

Victory conditions: This is open to debate by those who sign up, but my thought is something like “hold 200+ provinces for 3 consecutive turns.” This is a fairly low bar I think for this map which should hopefully keep the game from running on longer than people’s endurance.

Settings: renaming on, score graphs on, default everything else.

Mods: CBM will be used. Mod nations which are balanced (my call) will be allowed. Nations are being randomly assigned, but anybody who wants to put a mod nation into the pool speak up and I’ll consider them. If we add mod nations and have enough interests I may bump up the player count since the map is big enough to accommodate a few more. If you don’t want to play any of the mod nations added to the pool they will not count against your two nations.

Hosting: 24 hours per turn until 3 people request it gets lengthened. This pattern will be repeated, 3 requests = host length extending, though I do hope we don’t go over 3 days per turn. Delays will not be granted for the first 20 turns, line up a sub if you can't take a stale turn. Maybe a bit harsh, but to keep the game on track with so many players we can't really start having delays until some players get eliminated.

Gameplay: As implied by the title, I expect the game to tilt more towards the more experience players from the community, but anybody with a couple games under their belt shouldn’t feel intimidated – as always diplomacy is the great equalizer.

With the higher powered EA nations and a call for more experience players I’m expecting some over the top AARs worthy of the title of this game.

Signed up:

Baalz - Lanka
Fakeymcfake - Ermor (traded Helheim)
Zeldor - Atlantis (traded C'tis)
Hadrian_II - Kailasa
Incabulos - Jomon : Broken Swords
Executor - Formoria
Calahan - Agartha
duncanshriek - Arco
Jazzepi - T'ien
BigandScary - Hinnom
Starshine_Monarch - Nehekhara
Jarkko - C'tis (traded Atlantis)
Lingchih - Pangaea
Burnsaber - Oceania
WingedDog - Abysia
don_Pablo - Vanheim (traded Niefelheim)
Isokron - Marverni
Falkor - Helheim (traded Ermor)
viccio - Mictlan
Unoptimized -Sauro
Cicadian - Yomi
Revolution - Ulm
coobe - R'lyeh
Agema - Caelum
Trumanator - Niefelheim (traded Vanheim)
Lolomo - Agra Dis
Dragar - Tir na n'Og

Edit: Combined mod added by llama.
Edit: Updated mod to fix Tomb Kings pretender weapons.

[Fakeymcfake]

Sounds interesting, I'm in if you'll have me. If you need convincing a I know a couple players that'll likely vouch for me.

Edit: Scratch any nation, I'd rather not play Sauro as I'm already in a game as them. Anything else is dandy though.

[Trumanator]

Damn I wish I could play in this... >_<

[Zeldor]

Huh, I think I'm in. I can play almost anything, well, I wouldn't want Oceania or R'lyeh, way too passive. Trading nations allowed if you get smth not cool?

[Baalz]

Huh, I think I'm in. I can play almost anything, well, I wouldn't want Oceania or R'lyeh, way too passive. Trading nations allowed if you get smth not cool?

Sure, trading nations is fine.

[Hadrian_II]

I'd like to join

If it is possible, i would like a non water nation to play.

[Incabulos]

Since chronicles has withered on the vine I would love to join this effort.

I think dynamic AAR's is more something I can do than the committment to writing a piece as frequently as Chronicles wanted (and which I failed dismally at).

Haven't gone AI in a game yet (except for Rothfuss where I had two units left inside a sieged capital :D and ashdod sitting on me like a 300 ton gorilla waiting for my candles to burn out :P)

Anything but Oceania or R'lyeh.

[Executor]

24 nations? That's a lot of nations to kill, count me in.
As for victory conditions, maybe capitals are better than provinces you control.

Oh, right, and no Yomi and R'lyeh for me.

[Calahan]

I'd like to join as well please. And I'll mirror Hadrian_II's call above in being happy to play any non water nation.

The persuading argument to Baalz to let me play :)
Was a very regular player last summer, and had a good track record for commitment to games and a decent performance in them. All came to a sudden stop though when a real life combination of 'Car I was travelling in' + 'Collision with big truck' = 'Screwed up life for 6 months'. But back now for a foreseeably long Dom3 future, or until something else nasty happens to stop me.

[duncanshriek]

Count me in, please, with any nation.

Hall of Fame 15 would be a setting I'd like more than the default.

[Jazzepi]

I'd love to play.

Also, I'll vocal about how awesome Nehekhara is, and that it should be allowed into the game. Also, Jomon : Broken Swords is fairly balanced, though it's an LA nation it has issues with archer-heavy armies (like most EA nations) so I think it would be a fair one to allow as well.

Finally, the only nation I'd really like to avoid is EA Ulm.

Jazzepi

[Jazzepi]

I'd like to join as well please. And I'll mirror Hadrian_II's call above in being happy to play any non water nation.

The persuading argument to Baalz to let me play :)
Was a very regular player last summer, and had a good track record for commitment to games and a decent performance in them. All came to a sudden stop though when a real life combination of 'Car I was travelling in' + 'Collision with big truck' = 'Screwed up life for 6 months'. But back now for a foreseeably long Dom3 future, or until something else nasty happens to stop me.

You gotta watch Calahan. He comes with misfortune 3.

Jazzepi

[Calahan]

You gotta watch Calahan. He comes with misfortune 3.

Jazzepi

I love it! :laugh:

[Executor]

I'd love to play.

Also, I'll vocal about how awesome Nehekhara is, and that it should be allowed into the game.

Nehekhara is a MA nation. But I support you here, I'd love to play them again.

[BigandScary]

I usually prefer late age, but count me in. My skills are not exceptional at any EA nation, so give me anything.

[Baalz]

Trumanator - you're more than welcome, hope you're not avoiding playing because you think you haven't been around enough.

Hall of Fame 15 is fine.

Is there anything special that needs to be done to port mod nations from other eras to EA? I've no objection to those nations so long as somebody does whatever is needed.

Given the strong anti-water sentiment shown so far I'll also open it to voting whether to skip the 3 water nations altogether and leave the water free for the land lubbers. Might give a slight advantage to say EA Agartha and Formoria, but I don't think it's too hard for many different nations to go underwater fairly early if motivated.

[Revolution]

lkasjdfk

[duncanshriek]

Given the strong anti-water sentiment shown so far I'll also open it to voting whether to skip the 3 water nations altogether and leave the water free for the land lubbers. Might give a slight advantage to say EA Agartha and Formoria, but I don't think it's too hard for many different nations to go underwater fairly early if motivated.

I think there's enough room for the underwater nations. More important would be IMO, that there is one underwater nation starting in the inland sea, and two outside.

[Trumanator]

Trumanator - you're more than welcome, hope you're not avoiding playing because you think you haven't been around enough.

...

Is there anything special that needs to be done to port mod nations from other eras to EA? I've no objection to those nations so long as somebody does whatever is needed.


Well, it was definitely a major consideration. I'll jump in I suppose, and I'm fine with anything but Mictlan or Lanka. I would love to get a water nation :re:

AFAIK you just need to go into the .dm file and change the era, I'm pretty sure we did something along those lines in WOTR with the Hoburgs.

[Executor]

and I'm fine with anything but Mictlan or Lanka.
[/QUOTE]

??? Interesting...

[Trumanator]

I just hate dealing with large scale bloodhunting.

[Executor]

I'm a big fan of XXXXXL scale bloodhunting, or clamming, or blood stones, fever fetishes...

[LoloMo]

I'm in! I'll play anything.

[Jazzepi]

Is there anything special that needs to be done to port mod nations from other eras to EA? I've no objection to those nations so long as somebody does whatever is needed.

I don't think so. Llamabeast would be the best one to ask. I *believe* that all the mods on llamaserver are free of ID conflicts. I know I'm currently in a game with tomb kings and skaven.

Jazzepi

[Starshine_Monarch]

I'd like in please. I think I'd rather not play any Water nations. There's some freaky stuff down there (giant anglerfish and tentacly things are always fun), but I really haven't pulled anything coherent together to play competitively with any of them. Then again, the same could be said about many of the other nations I haven't tried yet. I just don't feel like getting my feet wet this game.

Can I also suggest Streamers and Standards mod, because I like the flags better?

[Dragar]

I'm in, likewise no water

[Jarkko]

If I may, I would be interested in joining. No Oceania or Caelum for me please.

[Lingchih]

Sounds interesting. Most of my games are petering out. I'll be on vacation first week of May, but if that is OK, count me in. I don't care who I play.

[Burnsaber]

This is just too awesome to be missed. Count me in. Don't care who I play.

[WingedDog]

I'd like to participate, if you let me.
Would play anything.

[don_Pablo]

I'd like to join. - No Oceania or R'lyeh

[Zeldor]

Mod nations should be allowed when someone checks them for balance in EA. But EA is generally stronger, so they should be fine. Someone can ask Sombre to be sure, he knows all about mod nations.

[Ruminant]

On second thoughts, forget I posted anything here. Move along, nothing to see here..

[Isokron]

I would like to join as any nation.

[Executor]

Mod nations should be allowed when someone checks them for balance in EA. But EA is generally stronger, so they should be fine. Someone can ask Sombre to be sure, he knows all about mod nations.

Llama has modded Nehekhara a bit, so they are fine with EA, the troops cost a fortune to buy now, and are a little weaker than before.

And you can counter Nehekhara pretty easy too if you know how, if not ask me.

[Falkor]

I'd like to join.
No water nations for me, please.

[Baalz]

Alright, we're up to 19 so far. We've got a couple people signed up who it looks like haven't completed a MP game yet. Realizing my frustration is directed at completely different people I've played with in the past, I just want to reiterate one more time that disappearing without lining up a a sub really messes up multiple months worth of effort from dozens of people. Signing up for this game is committing to see it through to the end or until you line up somebody else to take over for you.

On that note, Lingchih: As I mentioned delays won't be granted for the first 20 turns, so I'll let you in with the assumption you'll line up a sub for the first week in May. Again, don't want to seem overly strict but we've got a lot of people playing and a week long break is significant on a 24 hour host schedule.

Streamers and Standards mod has been nominated, anyone object?

[viccio]

I'm interested to play, no water nation...

[Unoptimized]

Hey, I'd love to play if you'd have me :). I'm only in one other game right now...and it is slow...

Edit: also, I will happily play anything, and I will do my best to follow those rules

[Incabulos]

just to confirm I only put two nations down (Oceania & Rl'yeh) but don't want any water nation. Was just sticking to the 2 nation request.

I just think water nations miss out on alot of the fun of this map with specials on.

[Cicadian]

I'm in if you'll have me. Just got back from my second (and last) vacation of the year so I will be able to play for the duration. If anything unforseen happens I'll do my absolute best to line up a sub!

I would rather not play a water nation, anything else is fine :)

[Revolution]

I'll join and play as anyone

[Fakeymcfake]

And you can counter Nehekhara pretty easy too if you know how, if not ask me.

I'm asking.

Also, I'm fine with HoF 15 and streamers/standards mod.

Also also, just incase you missed my edit way back, I'd like to put down no Sauro for me. I'm already playing that nation in another game and I hate duplicates.

[coobe]

still room for me ? ill take anything

[Agema]

By my count Fakey or Coobe has the 24th slot, so I'd like to offer myself in as a sub if anyone drops out early on.

[Baalz]

Alright, I'll bump it up to 26 / 24 nations and we'll use the two suggested mod nations. That means you're in Agema. I'll try and roll the nations and post them tonight, then give a couple days for people to design their pretenders.

[Baalz]

First post is updated with nation assignments. As I mentioned trading nations is fair game. You'll have at least 48 to play around and design a pretender, I'll plan on putting the game up Friday evening and we can hopefully start the game Sunday.

[Fakeymcfake]

Anyone want to trade? Helheim isn't my favorite. PM with offers.

[Trumanator]

Same here w/Vanheim.

[Zeldor]

Will trade C'tis for Hinnom or Niefel :)

Hmm... I could trade for Helheim too.

[LoloMo]

Ack, Did I get lost in the shuffle?

[Dragar]

Baalz - Lanka
Zeldor - C'tis
Executor - Formoria
Lingchih - Pangaea

Nice to see some of the strongest players ended up with weak nations ;) At least none of you landed Niefels, sauromatia or hinnom!

On another note, is Tir Na n'Og the only nation without a guide? I'll have to find some serious time to hit SP the next day or so somehow!

[Zeldor]

Lanka weak? Huh, that's new to me :)

[Zeldor]

Ok, I can trade C'tis for:

-Hinnom
-Niefelheim
-Helheim
-Atlantis
-Caelum
-Abysia
-Ermor
-Mictlan

I don't think C'tis is weak nation, but I'd like to try smth else that time :) Not D nation...

[Hadrian_II]

On another note, is Tir Na n'Og the only nation without a guide? I'll have to find some serious time to hit SP the next day or so somehow!

You can look guides for eriu, that nations are very similar.

[Jarkko]

Ok, I can trade C'tis for:

-snip-

-Atlantis


I'll trade Atlantis for C'tis!

[Zeldor]

Ok, I am tempted to try EA or MA Atlantis. No chances to win, but some fun guaranteed :) C'tis is yours then.

[coobe]

yeeeah rlyeh... never played them, should be fun

[Zeldor]

BTW, new CBM version should be released very soon. I think we should use it :)

[Calahan]

I'm happy to trade Agartha for just a Lucky Coin! :)

[Edi]

Oh, I was so tempted to enter this, but unfortunately my other commitments would have prevented me. :(

New kitty and moving to and renovating a new place plus other things tend to do that. Be interesting to see how this works out, though, especially if the RPG aspect comes through. :)

[Executor]

Fomoria? Damn...
This pretender's gonna take some time to design.

I don't suppose Nehekhara or Jomon is up for a trade??? :)

[coobe]

we really need fixed starts for the UW nations.
Its very likely to start next to 3 land provs, 1 VP prov and tritons :(

[Baalz]

Ack, Did I get lost in the shuffle?

Doh! I'm sorry LoloMo! Can anyone suggest one more mod nation that fits? The map can fit one more and LoloMo just got randomly assign an as yet unannounced nation...

[Executor]

How bout Agra Dis mod nation?

[Jarkko]

Is Skaven MA only?

[Zeldor]

Is it just me, or are most of the provs really really low pop? And they will be quite hard to conquer. Maybe we should play at increased gold and resources?

[Fakeymcfake]

Falkor and I are trading nations, so I now have Ermor and he has Helheim.

[Calahan]

Is it just me, or are most of the provs really really low pop? And they will be quite hard to conquer. Maybe we should play at increased gold and resources?

Odd, just played a few test games and I saw the exact opposite. 10k+ province everywhere. Although all the starts were near the centre. I don't know anything about this map though, so maybe there are set areas that have high / low population.

Has anyone out there got any experience with this map?

[Trumanator]

Baalz - Lanka
On another note, is Tir Na n'Og the only nation without a guide? I'll have to find some serious time to hit SP the next day or so somehow!

No, Vanheim doesn't have one either :( I've been doing the same thing.

[Baalz]

Since a lot of people are unfamiliar with their nation and it looks like a little time before the trading shakes out I'm going to give the weekend to play around before I put the game up, then probably a couple more days to get people to send their pretenders in.

Lolomo, looks like you're playing Agra Dis

[Jazzepi]

I really think you should just set a date that people have to have their switches done by. Finalize the nation list on that date. And then give some extra time for pretender design.

Otherwise you're probably going to end up with people playing the wrong nation (or someone else's pretender design) ;P It's happened before.

Jazzepi

[Baalz]

Good point. Midnight Friday for all trades to be finalized and publicly posted. Then the weekend for everyone to play around with their nations, game will go up (probably) Sunday evening.

[coobe]

anyone want to trade with me ? :) (rlyeh)

[Trumanator]

Trumanator (Vanheim) is switching with don_Pablo (Niefelheim). See you in game. And a big thanks to the don.

[Jazzepi]

anyone want to trade with me ? :) (rlyeh)

EA R'yleh is one of those nations I just don't /get/. I have a hard enough time getting on land with regular ocean nations, but R'yleh makes it really impossible ;P

Jazzepi

[Fakeymcfake]

Only person I've seen do well with R'yleh was vfb, though he didn't start making serious moves on land until pretty late in the game from what I can remember. Might want to ask him what he did.

[Jarkko]

Tried some SPing last night on the map, and got my butt kicked by the AI. Those special sites are *mean*, some have glamorous units in them :hurt: Better look at the .map file to figure out where to move to avoid stepping into poo :angel


In other news, is the following list I've kept for myself up to date regarding traded nations?

Zeldor (C'tis) - Jarkko (Atlantis)
Falkor (Ermor) - Fakeymcfake (Helheim)
Trumanator (Vanheim) - don_Pablo (Niefelheim)

[Trumanator]

Does anyone else think that the non special indies on this are a bit beefier too, or is it just me?

[Jarkko]

Does anyone else think that the non special indies on this are a bit beefier too, or is it just me?

Can't say I noticed them to be any beefier, but there seems to be *lots* of special sites.

Also, will this game use the victory points?

[Agema]

Baalz - Lanka
Zeldor - C'tis
Executor - Formoria
Lingchih - Pangaea

Nice to see some of the strongest players ended up with weak nations ;) At least none of you landed Niefels, sauromatia or hinnom!

On another note, is Tir Na n'Og the only nation without a guide? I'll have to find some serious time to hit SP the next day or so somehow!

If there's no guide for Tir na N'Og, there is a guide for Eriu by Baalz. Some of the ideas will be applicable back to EA.

[LoloMo]

Thanks Baalz, now gotta go check out what Arga Dis is all about

[Jazzepi]

Thanks Baalz, now gotta go check out what Arga Dis is all about

BLOOD, DEATH, AND VENGEANCE!!!!

Jazzepi

[Dragar]

how do people know which map we are playing on?

[Lavaere]

Faerun is the map. and this looks interesting so I'll be watching the thread. wish there was also a way for me to watch the actual game to though

[coobe]

no one want to trade with me ?

[Calahan]

how do people know which map we are playing on?

Drager, here is the link to the Faerun Adventure map
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=40776

[Zeldor]

So are we using the to-be-released CBM? Or 1.41?

And it really seems that there is a lot of unequality on that map. SW region [water and land] seems to be really low pop [nothing more than 7k], due to terrains maybe too. And starting water locations need to be fixed, I think. They are totally random and can decide on who wins under water.

[Jarkko]

I have to agree that the west, and especially south-west, of the map is not in the the same league as the rest of the map. The income and resources seem to be much lower in west than in the center or eastern parts of the map. Also, the eastern part of the map seem to have many more choke-points, which basically will see nations in centre most likely turning west first (who will be poorer and will have a harder time to defend themselves due to the more open nature of the geograpy).

In all, based on the short experience (I've never before played on the map) so far, I think the Faerun map is damn excellent for SP gaming, but I am not entirely positive how balanced playfield it will be in MP. Remains to be seen, I guess :) Until that I am praying I get a start position in the east :D

[Baalz]

I did a decent job with EA R'yleh, on Faerun coincidentally. This is a huge map, with a *lot* of water so you can spend a considerable amount of time staying wet. Going onto land is, yeah, a challenge, but assuming you don't need to do that until you are dominating the water you've got one really, really big advantage working for you - you can sit and wait for the perfect timing to attack. Nobody is going to attack you, so just wait until somebody along the long coast is committed to a grueling war, then make a deal with whoever they're fighting with and hit every coastal province and as many inland provinces as you've got amulets of fish (mind lords can solo thug quite well). Blast mercilessly with the artillery (mind hunts, vengeance of the dead) which you've been meticulously passing out void eyes and spell foci for - with the gem income from your large unassailable water empire you should be thinking along the lines of a dozen artillery attacks per turn indefinitely - it's not a high bar for R'yleh. When you do have to have to fight a real army you can likely dictate a lot of the terms of the fight because of your strategic flexibility (attacking out the water, lots of teleporting troops), and make sure you use the advantages you have. CBM gives you slave trolls which are a *huge* addition, use some of the tougher summons to round out your roster for roles other than chaff. Ring of sorcery + 1 30-gem empower gets you to D-3 which gets you mound fiends which lets you leverage that strongish D income you've been dark knowledging into some undead troops - plenty of which are amphibious. For combat magic very small two slave communions + power of the spheres opens up a whole lot of possibilities for all those single path randoms particularly after you pass out a couple boosters. Mass protection, regeneration & foul vapors are fairly easily doable, weapons of sharpness, strength of giants, legions of steel & later army of lead/gold should be staples and those undead/darkvision troops start looking pretty mean under darkness. Of course you've got top notch astral support as well, so will of the fates etc. are pretty easy. Aboleths have some very nasty linebacker communion potential - think quickened, lucky, ethereal, breath of winter, resist magic (ok, they could have done all that themselves which is why mind lords make good thugs) plus iron skin, resist elements, personal regeneration (helps prevent afflictions), soul vortex (surround them with some sacrificial chaff so they'll suck up the reinvig they need after being slaves to cast this expensive spell) - and toss down a strength of giants on them as well as it not only improves their offense, it increases the rate they're healing from their life drains.

Once you've got a good foothold on land, leverage your good astral income (you've been clamming, right? And you searched all the underwater provinces with a priest to get the extremely common underwater temples, right?) to aschric record every likely looking place which, this being EA, should give you a good spread of indie mages to get you the rest of what you need on land.

[Baalz]

Well, I've got no intention of spending a huge amount of effort in an attempt to balance everything, if you get a rough start you'll just have to roll with it and roleplay, hopefully everyone will have fun even if they lose messily.

Hmmm, the description for this map says there are 100 victory points on this map, mostly in the special (very well defended) provinces. Anybody know how that works with relation to the game settings if we use a victory point victory condition?

[Baalz]

So are we using the to-be-released CBM? Or 1.41?


We're going with the latest version of CBM available when I start the game (probably Sunday). As far as I know there aren't any big problems with 1.41 for EA nations, so it should be fine. Don't really want to hold up the game nor bug QM ("are you done yet?!?!")

[Baalz]

PS - another distinct advantage EA R'yleh has on this map in particular is that there are two distinct large bodies of water and they're the only water nation with strong astral, which means you can take over one body of water, scry out the other, then blitz in and gateway in your troops while being completely immune from counterattack. Land nations still will almost never attack you in the water, even if they know you've just shipped 90% of your army off across the world....

[don_Pablo]

By the way, aren't Agra Dis and Nehekhara MA nations or I miss smth.?

[Trumanator]

... mini EA R'lyeh guide ...

Maybe they should be your next guide, they certainly fit your M.O.

[Edi]

Some info on the Faerun map:

50 VPs is the max you can set for required victory.
All start provinces have at least 5 non-special neighbors on land, but the ones with seven or more are nostarts because they give too much of an advantage. Water starts should have at least 4 water neighbors, though in some cases you may have three. If all water nations are in play, there is the possibility that two start in the Sea of Fallen Stars (the inner sea), leaving the third with unopposed free rein in the ocean unless Agartha starts on the coast and makes a quick play into water.
Rather few provinces have populations set in the map file. The map does tend to produce a lot of high population provinces.
The east has more chokepoints than the west, but tends to be poorer in terms of magic sites if site frequency is 40% or below. There are also fewer special provinces in the east, and the specials function as barriers and chokepoints for a fair while into the game. The bigger special provinces will require some careful planning unless you just want to throw troops at them until they die of attrition, but that's not viable when you need to fight other players at the same time.

Everyone should also redownload the map, because it was updated last week to fix a few map bugs, three rather important forests were plains in the older version.

[Edi]

With regard to start locations, there are a huge number of them, so this can result in a lot of players being clustered fairly close while others have more room to expand in peace. The deserts and swamps are nostarts, so anyone who starts next to the Anauroch desert can gain a lot of gem rich wastes fairly easily before running into neighbors.

Also, keep track of the VP markers on the map. If a province provides 3 or more VPs, traipsing in before scouting it out with something expendable is likely to hurt.

[Baalz]

Alright, sounds like it'll be fun to play with victory points enabled, particularly from a roleplaying POV. Does 50 for a victory sound like too many? Some of them are worth 3 points, but they've also got defenders that will give even an end game SC pause...

[Dragar]

I reckon 50 is plenty :)

[Hadrian_II]

Alright, sounds like it'll be fun to play with victory points enabled, particularly from a roleplaying POV. Does 50 for a victory sound like too many? Some of them are worth 3 points, but they've also got defenders that will give even an end game SC pause...

I dont like VP victory, as games will end with someone airdropping to victory.

[Edi]

Alright, sounds like it'll be fun to play with victory points enabled, particularly from a roleplaying POV. Does 50 for a victory sound like too many? Some of them are worth 3 points, but they've also got defenders that will give even an end game SC pause...

I dont like VP victory, as games will end with someone airdropping to victory.

Take a look in the map file and how the VP's are spread out. If you can manage an airdrop on this map with 50 points the target, you'd win anyway.

[duncanshriek]

If it really has to be victory by VPs, then the maximum please.

Considering how much unwanted the underwater nations are, I wouldn't mind to go to great length in order to make it enjoyable for them. Like restarting everytime their starting positions are not 2 outside and 1 inland sea.

[TheDemon]

Not to mention, in the endgame most of the VPs will be forted, so the enemy can airdrop their own team in. Provided you're airdropping enough guys to break down 20 forts in one turn, in which case you should have won already.

I'm just finishing a similar game: Faerun Adventure Map, 50 VP victory, all-EA on Something Awful. We're down to the last 6 and there wasn't much problem with East/West balance. One thing we found is the West is far more dense, province-wise, than the East. That is, although there are more sites, there's a corresponding increase in province density, and therefore nation density. We ended up with one dominant nation in the East, two in the Northwest, one in the Southwest, and one in the South.

In the water, all 3 nations started in the outer ocean, and once they had beat each other up enough that 2 went AI, Sauro came in and killed the last one in like 3 turns. I'm not sure on the balance of the water starts, although the map has lots of water, a lot of it is fairly linear and within 2 or 3 provs of each other without any other way to expand.

It's turn 77 and some of the VPs are still untaken thanks to their insanely tough garrisons. For most of the VP provs, even the one and two VP ones, you really have to consider them as chokepoints and work around them. The 3 and 4 VP provs needed a half dozen SCs and chaff or a 400+ man army. They're not to be taken lightly.

[Cicadian]

I agree, VP victories are too easy to achieve, especially with the large amount available on this map.

I think a better measure of victory would be taking a majority of enemy capitals. Since there are 26 players, I think 15 is probably a reasonable amount.

Of coursse, the cynic in me says the game will probably end when enough people get bored enough with the end game to declare the biggest player the winner:p

Edit - Ok in light of the above I retract this post (apart from the last bit!)

[TheDemon]

If you played with a VP condition of less than 50, I'd agree that with so many VPs it would be too easy. But with 50/100 VPs needed to win, there's no way to gain them all quickly, especially considering the garrisons, and that with a map this size, someone strong will likely own the ones you want to target. Capitals also make sense, if you want to go that route.

e: By my rough count, there are 66 provs with VP points. Averaging them, that means you need to own about 33 VP provs to win. If you somehow were able to take all the highest VP provs unopposed, by my count you would need 18 provs. That's more than the 15/26 capitals.

[Calahan]

50 VP points sounds ok. Although half capitals, or the original plan of 200 provinces sound ok as well. Although the micro-management involved in holding the latter for 3-turns could be a nightmare.

Edit: Mis-read the previous post, so what I originally said made no sense.

[Dragar]

Hey guys,

Out of the blue it seems very likely that I'll be away for 2-3 weeks in June sometime. In the interests of the game I'd better pull out before it begins, rather than risk not being able to get a sub at that time

Sorry for the late notice, just glad the game hasn't started yet

[Jarkko]

Incidently, I'll be away in June for 10 days, but I am pretty certain I'll get a sub for that time. Just a heads up that I'll be pestering the GM to change the e-mail address where my turns are sent for that time (if I haven't already been eliminated by that time, of course) :)

[Jarkko]

In other news, I am repeadetly totally owned by the special sites of the map. I really really have to start to think of the sites as player controlled strong-points instead of strong AI resistance pockets :P

[Baalz]

Game's up: http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Legends_Of_Faerun

Not sure if anything extra is necessary to get those mod nations into EA, I added them but I'm not sure if they'll actually be accepted when they're submitted. Barring technical difficulties, if everyone could try and get their pretenders uploaded in the next day or two we'll get the party started.

[duncanshriek]

Game's up: http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Legends_Of_Faerun

Not sure if anything extra is necessary to get those mod nations into EA, I added them but I'm not sure if they'll actually be accepted when they're submitted. Barring technical difficulties, if everyone could try and get their pretenders uploaded in the next day or two we'll get the party started.

Not sure about those mod nations either. But according to this quote from the modding manual there are surely diffuculties to be expected:

13.1.7 #era <era nbr>
Which era should this nation appear in. 1 = ea
2 = mid, 3 = late or 0 to disable the nation.

So the nations for our EA game must have a '#era 1' line, while the Tomb Kings and the Agra Dis have a '#era 2'. If this is a problem only for the player of these nations or we need all a correct version of the mod nations I do not know.

The biggest problem: The link to New Jomon CBM version is invalid. Apparently the respective thread on the forum died.

[Trumanator]

We had a similar issue in the War of the Ring game. Apparently Sombre did a number of CBM versions, but it was long enough ago that they're almost certainly out of date anyway. You could try talking to llamabeast.

[Zeldor]

Baalz:

Hmm... I hope that you at least renamed .dm files? So they won't interfere with mod nations present on llamaserver :)

[Zeldor]

Huh, why did the game start?

[Baalz]

Alright, I think I've got this all worked out. Here's the EA versions of the three mod nations. If you've got the regular versions you can overwrite or not the folders, there's no change. I just included them for the convenience of those who don't have the nations yet. Lets see if this works...

[duncanshriek]

@Baalz

Citing http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Legends_Of_Faerun :

Early Age, max 2 players

Consequently pretender uploads are rejected now.

[Baalz]

Alright, the llamaserver hiccuped, those of you who had already joined may have gotten a notification that the game started. I reset it, and this apparently reset the player count. Anyway, I think I've got that resolved, let me know if anybody has any other problems.

[Dragar]

Looks like my trip is cancelled :( not a good day.

Is it too late to re-enter the game? No drama if it is

[Calahan]

Are these mod nations compatable with each other?

I've never looked at any of the mod nations before, so I just downloaded the ones in this game from Baalz's link in post #115, and checked them out.

Arga Dis seems to be working correctly, but Tombs Kings isn't appearing as an EA nation choice, and the units for New Jomon are completely messed up (recruitable Pretender chasses for 20gp!).

Maybe I have the mods installed incorrectly, but they appear as active on the main menu screen so.....?

Have attached a zip file of the test game showing the problems with the New Jomon units.

[Baalz]

Looks like my trip is cancelled :( not a good day.

Is it too late to re-enter the game? No drama if it is

Nope! Glad to have you. :)

[Baalz]

Are these mod nations compatable with each other?

I've never looked at any of the mod nations before, so I just downloaded the ones in this game from Baalz's link in post #115, and checked them out.

Arga Dis seems to be working correctly, but Tombs Kings isn't appearing as an EA nation choice, and the units for New Jomon are completely messed up (recruitable Pretender chasses for 20gp!).

Maybe I have the mods installed incorrectly, but they appear as active on the main menu screen so.....?

Have attached a zip file of the test game showing the problems with the New Jomon units.

I'll take a look when I get home tonight, unless someone else has a chance to before then.

[Dragar]

awesome!

[llamabeast]

You can't just use MA mod nations in EA without changing them a bit. It's only one line, but stil. The easiest thing might be to make a combined mod, using my mod creator script, so that people only need one new mod file, rather than one for each nation. If you like I'll do this when I get home.

(I tried to post almost exactly this message last week, but I can't find it, so I guess I must have failed somehow).

[Agema]

I enabled the mods and had a look at the nations in SP: all Arga Dis' commanders were from Jomon (some of them clearly not alternate forms you aren't supposed to be able to recruit) and Nekehari's had a large dollop of Jomon commanders and basic troops as well as their own.

[Baalz]

You can't just use MA mod nations in EA without changing them a bit. It's only one line, but stil. The easiest thing might be to make a combined mod, using my mod creator script, so that people only need one new mod file, rather than one for each nation. If you like I'll do this when I get home.

(I tried to post almost exactly this message last week, but I can't find it, so I guess I must have failed somehow).

I'd quite appreciate that Llama, I'm trying to figure this out with 0 mod experience and think I'm making a mess of it! :)

[llamabeast]

Okay, I have abused my mod privileges and attached the combined mod to the first post.

The combined mod, called Legends.dm, includes CBM1.41, Tomb Kings, Jomon Broken and Arga Dis, all placed into the early age. That's correct, right?

The zip includes everything you need, mod-wise. I've included the normal versions of the mods as well - it seemed wrong not to - but Legends.dm is the one you actually want to use.

[Incabulos]

Thank you very much Llama

[Calahan]

That is one excellent job llama, everything seems to be working fine now. Many thanks once again.

Also big thanks to Baalz for setting the game up. More players generally equals more problems, so :up: for doing the admin.

[Baalz]

The combined mod, called Legends.dm, includes CBM1.41, Tomb Kings, Jomon Broken and Arga Dis, all placed into the early age. That's correct, right?


Perfect! Much thanks man!

[Falkor]

I still can't submit a pretender.

"Max 2 players"
"Players so far: 17"

[Baalz]

Haha, looks like Llama hit the same thing I did, the max players resets when the options are changed. Fixed it, should work now.

[LoloMo]

I'm using the combined mod, but I'm still getting a "your pretender is the wrong age" error for Arga Dis.

[LoloMo]

Oh wait, I used the wrong mod, false alarm! Sorry, haha. It's working now.

[Trumanator]

Just to clarify, if we're not a mod nation we don't need to resubmit, or redo our pretender builds correct?

[Incabulos]

Ok I have legends mod and cb 1.41 mod active and when i try to create my pretender for Jomon Broken Sword, Marveni's champion of the horn shows up as a Chassis for 0 pts.... Is that correct?

Edit: it seems wrong and there are different chassis than with straight broken swords and a late age game.

[Trumanator]

The champion of the horn is a CBM bug. The other stuff IDK.

[Incabulos]

Ah I think it is because I had CBM AND legends active. I should just have legends active.

Hmm nope still shows the horn chap. Does that matter?

[llamabeast]

Haha, looks like Llama hit the same thing I did, the max players resets when the options are changed.

Oh, that's a silly bug! Didn't know about that. I will put it on my list.

Incabulos: Don't worry about the horn chap. As for the other pretenders, I see the same set (which is the minimum set in fact, I think Jomon Broken has a small choice of pretenders) either using the Legends mod or the Jomon Broken mod.

[llamabeast]

Haha, looks like Llama hit the same thing I did, the max players resets when the options are changed.

Oh, that's a silly bug! Didn't know about that. I will put it on my list.

Incabulos: Don't worry about the horn chap. As for the other pretenders, I see the same set (which is the minimum set in fact, I think Jomon Broken has a small choice of pretenders) either using the Legends mod or the Jomon Broken mod.

[llamabeast]

Trumanator - correct.

[Incabulos]

Haha, looks like Llama hit the same thing I did, the max players resets when the options are changed.

Oh, that's a silly bug! Didn't know about that. I will put it on my list.

Incabulos: Don't worry about the horn chap. As for the other pretenders, I see the same set (which is the minimum set in fact, I think Jomon Broken has a small choice of pretenders) either using the Legends mod or the Jomon Broken mod.

Ah, thank you Llama. I am less familiar with the options so the offset created by the horn hero played tricks on my eyes.

[Jazzepi]

I'll get my pretender in soon. Sorry about the wait :O Been kind busy.

Jazzepi

[Starshine_Monarch]

Bug Alert! I was going to make a pretender for Nehekara out of one of the Egyptian-style titan chassis, but then I found out that they don't come with any weapons! He can't take provinces on his own if he doesn't have anything to hit with. They don't even get a basic fist attack.

I suppose this wouldn't be so bad if I'd just choose a different chassis, but I think I'd prefer this fixed.

[Baalz]

Well, I've got no idea what Llamabeast's availability is (assuming it's a bug with the Nehekara mod), but we've got 23/26 people joined, so if no fix is forthcoming in the next day or so see if you can swing it with one of the other pretenders.

[llamabeast]

Ah yes, it was a Tomb Kings bug! Quite a sly one. Anyway I've fixed it, and updated the first post.

People won't need the updated version unless (a) Starshine takes one of the fixed gods (which includes everyone with a flail, and the lord of the summer plague), and (b) you meet it in the game, in which case you will get a screwy battle report.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Pretender submitted with one of the fixed chassis, hoping I'm not tipping my hand very far.

[Baalz]

Alright, we've got 24 out of 26 players joined, I'm going to start the game tomorrow night with whoever is in.

[Jarkko]

I have just been informed by my wife (altough she claims she told me weeks ago...) that I will be traveling May 1st - 3rd. I may or may not have access to the internet during this time. Is it possible to set hosting interwall to 48 hours during that time?

[WingedDog]

Still missing Jomon, Pangaea and R'leh.
And someone had submited a pretender for Tir na n'Og, which is not in the list on the first page. :) It becomes pretty common lately that new dominions players unfamiliar with registration procedure send their pretenders to games in "Waiting for pretenders" list on llamaserver.

[llamabeast]

You can delete pretenders using the admin commands.

[Incabulos]

Jomon broken Swords strat/pretender design is proving to be an enigma to me. I will get something in in the next few hours but really have no ideas how the treat this nation(as cool as it is)beyond the obvious blood...

[Baalz]

I think Tir na n'Og is Dragar who dropped then rejoined when his trip was canceled. Updated the first post to reflect this.

[Baalz]

I have just been informed by my wife (altough she claims she told me weeks ago...) that I will be traveling May 1st - 3rd. I may or may not have access to the internet during this time. Is it possible to set hosting interwall to 48 hours during that time?

Well, the problem is, with 26 people playing there's pretty much always going to be somebody who needs an extension...a couple days for each person who asks I fear is going to result in us being paused more often than we're playing. I'm betting that if you ask around you shouldn't have too hard a time lining up somebody to take a turn or two for you, this is a pretty helpful community and the early turns can be done in just a couple minutes (assuming you have a net connection! :) ). In fact, I think there are several people following this thread out of interest who are not playing, anybody want to volunteer to help out and take a couple quick turns here and there for people out for a weekend or such? Once the game gets to the point that the turns take longer (and some people have been eliminated) I'll be much more inclined to grant extensions...

[Incabulos]

it is 2.30 pm here on the West coast USA. I have got something going and should have a pretender in within the next hour or so.

[Incabulos]

Submitted

[Trumanator]

Jeez! Are there enough blood nations? Mictlan + Lanka + Jomon + Arga Dis + Hinnom as pretty major ones, and Aby, Niefel, Sauro, Van, Pan as fairly minor ones. This is definitely going to be interesting. Good luck catching the uniques!

[duncanshriek]

25 VPs required? I thought we had settled on 50 VPs?

[Baalz]

Hmmmm, this must have got reset with all the option changes, let me restart the game.

[Fakeymcfake]

Jeez! Are there enough blood nations? Mictlan + Lanka + Jomon + Arga Dis + Hinnom as pretty major ones, and Aby, Niefel, Sauro, Van, Pan as fairly minor ones. This is definitely going to be interesting. Good luck catching the uniques!

Well that's early age for you, bunch of blood thirsty savages the lot of them. However the Ermorian Republic will embrace you all into it's union and you may yet lift yourselves up from the pit of anarchy and vile demon worship into a new dawn of peace and brotherhood. Or we can send you to meet your unholy gods at the tips of our swords, either works for us.

Edit: Also, dammit, I really liked my starting position. Oh well.

[duncanshriek]

Hmmmm, this must have got reset with all the option changes, let me restart the game.

VP requirement is still at 25. Perhaps a bug somewhere?

[Trumanator]

Edit: Also, dammit, I really liked my starting position. Oh well.

I like my new one better. :D

[Fakeymcfake]

Good, then I'll be very comfortable when I take it from you on my road to domination.

[Jarkko]

Well, the problem is, with 26 people playing there's pretty much always going to be somebody who needs an extension...a couple days for each person who asks I fear is going to result in us being paused more often than we're playing.
Good point! I withdraw my request :) Also, it appears that we will be visiting a place where they have an internet connection (at least my wife has recieved e-mail from there :D), it's just that I do not know these people (some distant relatives of my wife who have apparently been asking us to visit them for years. Maybe I can explain I have some really really important business stuff on my laptop, and if I could use their internet in privacy for a while :D

[Zeldor]

Huh, I have different pretender than I submitted. WTF? How do I submit it again, as we are doing the restart?

[Baalz]

Hmmmm, the llamaserver seems to have another bug with the VPs, it's setting the required VPs to 25 despite me specifying 50. Sorry for the hiccups, I'm going to un-start the game one more time since I really don't think 25 VPs is going to be enough. Zeldor (and anybody else) should be able to resubmit pretenders at this time.

Ps. I really liked my first start position to. :(

[Zeldor]

Ok, sumitted my pretender again. Strange thing, I had awake W9 Dagon with weird scales. And it was as created last, and I am really sure that I didn't create smth like that. And I didn't drink recently, hmm...

[Lingchih]

Umm, totally forgot I had signed up for this game. Just submitted a pretender though.

[Baalz]

So, I haven't heard back from Llama and don't really want to bug him about his awesome free service, so anybody object to going back to holding a set number of provinces for 3 turns for the win?

[Lingchih]

Sounds fine to me.

[WingedDog]

No objections here.

[Fakeymcfake]

How many provinces?

[duncanshriek]

How about 1/3 = 156 provinces held for 3 consecutive turns. That would be enough of a management nightmare, I think.

[LoloMo]

I'm good with fixed number of provinces

[Fakeymcfake]

Eh, I don't know. I mean what's the point of playing on a map with all of these crazy indy provinces if we don't have to worry about taking them any longer? That and with a game of this size I think holding as many provinces as duncan suggests would be too much of a management nightmare for anyone to pull off before everyone burns out on this game.

[Lingchih]

Hehe. Do you really think anyone will win this game? This is a game for the fun of it. All the cool AAR reports and alliances. All the sweet battles. No one usually wins a game of this size. It's just played for the sheer fun of it. So I am fine with a prov count win determination.

[Falkor]

I prefer VP, but province number is also good. Number of capitals is nice idea too.
Whatever winning conditions. Let's just begin the game. :)

[Calahan]

If the llamaserver is rejecting the 50VP setting, is it out of the question to have 50VP winning conditions, but keep track of it manually? Since this will have to be done anyway if you are going for a capital count. Ok, the graphs wouldn't be able to tell you that someone was close to a VP win, but it wouldn't tell you that with capital victories anyway.

So why not just have it that you have to hold 50VP for three turns, and make the claim the same way you would claim a capital victory? Shouldn't be hard to find a third-party to check any valid claims.

[Zeldor]

Nah, hidden VPs are the worst idea ever. You can track capitals though - simply put VPs in capitals.

[Calahan]

Won't VP's in capitals just paint a big bullseye for all the rush nations as to where their nearest neighbour is? Don't like the sound of that in an EA game.

[Zeldor]

Yeah, they will. And it's not like you can do anything else than pray if you rolled some weak nation. At least I'm doing that with Atlantis. I hope that 2 other water nations are in different lake, preferably the small one :)

[Executor]

Personaly, I don't care much about VP as long as I start somewhere in the corner, this map gives a headache, too much detail IMO. I think the black lines on the map are to blame for this, is there any way to remove them?

[WingedDog]

I beleive the number of VP's owned by a nation is displayed on llamaserver statistic screen even if VP's were not included in victory condition. So we could just agree on 50 VP's and trace the winner manualy.

[Calahan]

I beleive the number of VP's owned by a nation is displayed on llamaserver statistic screen even if VP's were not included in victory condition. So we could just agree on 50 VP's and trace the winner manualy.

That's bang on in my books WingedDog, and looks to be a fine solution IMO. That way the game setup problems should be solved, and the VP points won't be hidden, so no sneaky victories. Win Win??

[Burnsaber]

I beleive the number of VP's owned by a nation is displayed on llamaserver statistic screen even if VP's were not included in victory condition. So we could just agree on 50 VP's and trace the winner manualy.

This sounds like the best option.

[Zeldor]

Executor:

You can freely modify your .tga file afaik. Well, not totally, but some minor changes would be possible. I think :)

WingedDog:

Hmm... yeah, that sounds like a good solution.

[Baalz]

Ah, good deal. 50 VPs to win, starting the game now.

[Zeldor]

Huh, what a crap. We really should have made some #nostarts for water provs. Well, I will do my best to survive. Please don't kill me, ok?

[WingedDog]

Huh, what a crap. We really should have made some #nostarts for water provs. Well, I will do my best to survive. Please don't kill me, ok?

It's your punishment for abandoning your true god - the DAGON!:p

[Executor]

I'll have to second that Zeldor, crappy position for Fomoria to start also.

[Dragar]

Tir Na n'Og would happy to swap Zeldor! Of the 6 surrounding provinces 2 are water and 3 are VP sites..

[archaeolept]

yes, but you're Tir Na n'Og - those VP sites will melt before the awesomeness of your bare-chested warriors!1

that completely sucks though, and likely means you can't have much hope. I once started one game in a province w/ only one land neighbour, a wasteland, which in turn only had one other neighbour, which itself was equidistant to 3 other capitals (it was a very crowded game). So I was pretty much guaranteed one wasteland, with a good chance at getting one plains :p

the best thing to do is only have a set number of approximately balanced allowed starts equaling the number of players; but that's a lot of manual work by the organizer.

[Dragar]

Stop perving on my warriors!!

[Redeyes]

Those Tir na n'Og warriors are so awesome that their cuirasses grow out of them?
Hot.

[WingedDog]

By the way, I couldn't help but notice Draggar's girlfriend's influence on his goddess name... ;)

[Baalz]

The demon lords of Lanka offer power to those nations who will be the victims of the lucky and vicious through no fault of their own. Our reach will rapidly extend to the far corners of the world, and we offer protection to those nations who feel they need it. The unmatched might of the underworld stands ready to defend your homes, a wise nation would do well to discretely solicit our friendship before your neighbor does. Let those upon who fate has not smiled learn that only suckers must play the hand they are dealt.

[Fakeymcfake]

Jeeze. Every time you restart this game Baalz my starting position continuously gets worse. Well no matter, I'll squash whatever legions come my way regardless.

[Jazzepi]

Hidden benefit of a terrible start position : Your territories are even less appealing to conquer!

Jazzepi

[duncanshriek]

My starting position is so bad I had to look at it in the map editor: It does have the 'No start' flag set!

So stop complaining, let us get going.

[Fakeymcfake]

I couldn't agree more Ducan, I'm sure if we were forced to restart again I'd somehow end up in the water with the fish folk.

[Jarkko]

C'tis starting position is worst of all! We start bang in the middle of the map, so that everybody can attack us. What is more, the provinces around C'tis are rich and resourceful, making us an even more lucrative target :(

I predict a short existence for C'tis. What would I do to have recieved a corner province surrounded by wasteland, that wouldn't attract even Lanka demons :(

[Trumanator]

I have moved exactly 1 province from my previous start :)

[Lingchih]

Lamasus looked over her new lands, and she said that it was a good land. And there was much rejoicing.

[llamabeast]

Do you now have a 50 VP start condition? I altered the start command for the game but I believe I forgot to write anything here because I was (a) at a friend's house, and (b) a bit tired and confused.

[Baalz]

No worries llama, I didn't realize that the game tracked VPs even if a victory condition wasn't set or I wouldn't have even bothered you. Thanks though! :)

[Zeldor]

Huh, game is on 24h hosting, so how can next turn be tomorrow? We should have new turn already...

[Burnsaber]

Huh, game is on 24h hosting, so how can next turn be tomorrow? We should have new turn already...

I'm not 100% sure, but I think that Llamaserver automatically gives the first turn hosting period of 48h.

Which is good, IMHO. Some players can easily stale first turn because they missed the game start. Especially good for a game that has already started two times..

[llamabeast]

So yeah, the required vp setting for dominions was bugged. Before it was set to 50, but dominions interpreted it as 25 for some reason! However, the default is half of the total, so I removed the specification and then I guess it worked.

[TheDemon]

Tir Na n'Og would happy to swap Zeldor! Of the 6 surrounding provinces 2 are water and 3 are VP sites..

At the very minnimum, all provs surrounded by 3 VP sites have at least two non-VP land neighbors. Check the connections again :D

[Trumanator]

Tir Na n'Og would happy to swap Zeldor! Of the 6 surrounding provinces 2 are water and 3 are VP sites..

At the very minnimum, all provs surrounded by 3 VP sites have at least two non-VP land neighbors. Check the connections again :D

Definitely! Hitting 8 is a must on this map.

[Dragar]

seriously, no

[WingedDog]

Should we start searching for a sub for Hinnom before it's too late?

[duncanshriek]

Should we start searching for a sub for Hinnom before it's too late?

I'm in sympathy with aggressive measures against stalers. Can't propose a specific substitute though.

[Aezeal]

hmm I might be able to play, certainly for a few turns, probably the whole game, but only if Hinnom isn't to screwed up already, no use in putting months in this otherwise (I play to win!!!)

Since I don't do MP atm I'm not here regularly if a sub is needed send me a message or call on me in the dom 3 K thread I'm there daily usually

[WingedDog]

hmm I might be able to play, certainly for a few turns, probably the whole game, but only if Hinnom isn't to screwed up already, no use in putting months in this otherwise (I play to win!!!)

Since I don't do MP atm I'm not here regularly if a sub is needed send me a message or call on me in the dom 3 K thread I'm there daily usually

Hinnom had missed his very first turn, so I thought he had just forgotten about the game, since 48 hours were granted to submit it. But he had already sent the second turn without any complains, so sub is no longer needed, still thanks for the offer. :)

[BigandScary]

Sorry about that first turn, I got confused by the repeated emails and forgot to submit my turn.

[Aezeal]

hmm ok I'll just start a dom 3 K game then :D

[Calahan]

Ok, I volunteer myself to be the first head on the chopping block with some random roleplaying nonsense. Be kind :)

'Roleplay mode on'

[Calahan]

The Story of Agartha

Prologue - "The Prophecy of One"

In the before time, during the wake of the great Nether Earth decent, the last truth prophecy of the last true seer Oracle, Telosn'rahht, was told to a devote order of sacred Readers. The passages hence scribed portray events in a foreseen time when the Ones will rejoin with the variant non-Ones that roam the surface of Outer Earth.

Through the ages this prophecy became first the told lore of all, then words of foretold lore for believers. Travelling further with time brought the prophecy into legend and on into myth. Until it again came to be the knowledge of all One, and recounted as "The Prophecy of One".

But "The Prophecy of One" did not mirror the truth prophecy spoken by Telosn'rahht. Journeys through times and minds had altered the true message, with many tellers purposely misguiding the words for their own flavour and favour. "The Prophecy of One" grew strong through a powerful sect of Oracles known as the "Order of the Inner Sun". It was through their ranks that "The Prophecy of One" first emerged, and spread rapidly with their sermons that promised "The Prophecy of One" would come to be if the Ones had "Faith in the Earth".

To have "Faith in the Earth" meant to believe unquestionably in "The Prophecy of One", and its premise that a time will come when those who command the Outer Earth will learn that the only reward a path of endless conflict can bring is to learn that the path itself must always end in constant futility. The dawning of this truth would enable the Outer Earthers to turn their labours inwards and begin advancing their minds and spirits. This enlightenment would result in the Ones of Nether Earth re-uniting with their distant Outer Earth kind through a shared level of communication and understanding, and with this unity, all Ones and non-Ones can ascend to the stars from where the immortal Gods first fell and touched the soil. All the "Order of the Inner Sun" required of its followers was to devotedly preach their words, and hold the belief that "The Prophecy of One" will be true for those who have both patience and faith.

Eons past, during which time having "Faith in the Earth" became a rule. To not believe meant to not belong, and to not belong meant not to exist. Agathan society thrived under the guidance of the "Order of the Inner Sun". For with a single belief came a unified purpose, with all Ones working as a whole in preparation for the great day of united ascension. But while time itself can bring truth, age and wisdom for all, the passing of time for the religiously faithful only leads to doubt, disillusionment and disorder. And this inevitable outcome has recently come to be in Agartha.

Due to the decreasing "Faith in the Earth" amongst the Ones, a new sect has now emerged to challenge the long accepted prophecy. Driven by the inpatient followers of "The Prophecy of One", this new order, the "Readers of Telos", claim to be direct decedents of the sacred Readers who were chosen to inscribed the very truth prophecy spoken by Telosn'rahht.

Fuelled by a restless society and armed with a simple message, the "Readers of Telos" have grown quickly in power, as followers readily convert to "The Truth of Telosn". For while "The Prophecy of One" demanded its followers have faith and patience in believing that the day of united ascension will truly arrive to the Ones, "The Truth of Telosn" promises a life amongst the immortal Gods to all Ones that follow its call, and along a path of destiny that they themselves would control as a consequence of their actions.

Soon whole legions of Ones were converting to "The Truth of Telosn", and bonding their lives with the words of the original Telosn'rahht prophecy.....................

[Jarkko]

Have to say this is the crappiest start I've ever had in a MP. Two bad events on first two turns, and that with a positive luck scale :( Anything I recruit seems to get killed before I even get out of my province, while unrest is happily rising through the roof...


"What was that noise? Somebody did attack us *again*?!"
"Yes sir. But like last month, our patrollers did handle the situation, and have proceeded with their attack orders."
"Good good, the lossees were not that bad this time then?"
"Oh, losses? Right, losses. Seems only a fraction of our attack force actually survived the onslaught... Ermm... I suppose we shall soon recieve news from the attack force then... But we have again recruited a new army! Altough the population seems to be slightly annoyed, and we can't actually recruit any more for the time being..."
<insert sound of a weeping pretender>

[WingedDog]

Abysia sells up to 8 water gems, would buy death or astral.

[Cicadian]

Yomi would like 5 nature gems, in exchange for either 125 gold or 5 death gems.

[WingedDog]

Looks like Mictlan is out.

[Calahan]

The Story of Agartha

Chapter VI - "The Judgement Begins"

With the Outer Earth capital of Agartha now established at New Shamballa, attention can once more be brought to fully attuning all Ones with "The Truth of Telosn". The inevitable encounters with Outer Earth nations has been forever foretold, and is a central character in the Ones journey to united ascension. Telosn'rahht spoke of all these meetings, and has given guidance on how each nation should be judged.

Knowledge. Common knowledge. This shall be the Ones key to guidance. For without it any attempts at communication with other nations will be already fruitless. If we are to seek out our distant kin, as "The Truth of Telosn" dictates, then the first traces of our past kind in others will be seen through the discovery that they now share in our ways. For ignorance in the secrets of Death, or the elemental properties of our very Earth, brings with it no sign of promise. No ancient Ones would ever have betrayed their souls through a bonding with the ceilingless skies, nor come to hold the belief that life evolves not from the Earth, but from the power of the Unreachable Sun that bathe the surface world in living green. Little hope is held for these abnormal nations.

Early indications are good however that there will be many nations worthy of joining the Ones in united ascension. For already Agartha can claim several nations as friends, each displaying evidence of knowing that which is important to us. It is good for Agartha to meet such great nations, and to offer them access to enchanted items from the Neither Earth. The Ones are experiencing much joy at these encounters, for it is a sure sign that the predictions in the prophecy of Telosn'rahht will come to pass.

Unfortunately, an encounter has also taken place with the first nation judged as unworthy, for their ways are truly an abomination. They know nothing of importance, and instead have entwined themselves fully with a combination of all the most unnatural forces known. The "Readers of Telos" have decided that there is no hope for such 'creatures', and measures to correct their mistaken creation is already well underway................

[Calahan]

"Roleplay off"

Think the Mictlan stales are getting critical. Not sure how the sub-hunt is going (never got into the IRC thing), but wondering whether it is actually best to set them to AI or not? Since an early AI EA/LA Mictlan just means a self inflicted dom-kill. It looks like death either way though without a human on board.

But 'viccio' may be coming back soon (he's stated on the sub-hunt thread that he currently has internet problems) so does anyone know someone who can help out for a few turns until the position becomes clearer? Can't imagine an early Mictlan turn taking more than a minute or two.

Mictlan To-do list
-Send out a priest with a group of jags.
-Recruit another priest and more jags.
-End Turn.

Surely there must be some takers for this?! Maybe one of the mighty admins can volunteer for a few turns :bow: No obligation to stay for the long hual, since I think if you take away the dom-kill, the AI can handle Mictlan ok. Since even the auto-bot can't go far wrong with blessed jags.

Nehekhara also seem to be on the verge of a second consecutive stale :(

Please everyone, don't make nice Mr.Baalz dust off his disciplinarian hat :tough:

[Jazzepi]

Couple of things.

1. The AI knows how to play blood nations. Sort of. I would set them to AI now, instead of later. They'll blood sacrifice on their own.

2. Nobody wants to take over a nation that's three-turn stales in the hole. It's hard enough to get someone to simply sub for a nation they haven't built, but subbing for a nation that's already screwed by early-game stales (which are much worse then late game ones).

With those two things in mind, just set Mictlan to AI and get it over with.

Jazzepi

[Jarkko]

Next turn is a do or die for C'tis. I've had a crapton of bad luck with events so far, and I blooped up the set-up for the latest battle (did the turn in candle light under the influence a dozen beers while an overly eager stone-drunk distant relative was poking over my shoulder wanting to learn the game in 20 seconds ("Hey, a game can't be that difficult, eh? *WHY* do you not want to teach me this game???"...).

[WingedDog]

But 'viccio' may be coming back soon (he's stated on the sub-hunt thread that he currently has internet problems) so does anyone know someone who can help out for a few turns until the position becomes clearer?

Posting a message on forum board takes the same ammount of time as submitting a turn, at least for early game. Viccio isn't coming back whatever his reasons are. My vote is to put Mictlan AI.

[Calahan]

Posting a message on forum board takes the same amount of time as submitting a turn, at least for early game. Viccio isn't coming back whatever his reasons are. My vote is to put Mictlan AI.

In theory it takes the same amount of time, but the reality of logistics sometimes interferes. For example I'm currently posting on these forums while I'm at work, but there's no way I can open up Dominions from here to do a turn.

At a guess, maybe 'viccio' didn't have internet access over the weekend (while at home with a problematic ADSL) but now the weekend has past, he/she does now have access at work/school/uni etc.

But do agree that Mictlan should be set to AI. I've also checked out their current dominion from the llamascores, and it seems healthy enough that the AI won't be dom-killed anytime soon.

[Dragar]

Tir's castle is about to be stormed and we have set ourselves AI. Start position (103) is fairly untenable and a quick troglodyte rush from agartha has blitzed the capital.

Edi has said he's adjusting the map for that start position for future games, so hopefully won't happen again to anyone

Enjoy the game everyone!

[WingedDog]

Tir's castle is about to be stormed and we have set ourselves AI. Start position (103) is fairly untenable and a quick troglodyte rush from agartha has blitzed the capital.

Edi has said he's adjusting the map for that start position for future games, so hopefully won't happen again to anyone

Enjoy the game everyone!

Don't be upset, this game was positioned as a fungame from the very begining, so starting locations just like in reality - someone gets lucky, someone doesn't. We all gathered here not for victory, but for forging the history of this world (at least that's what was told in the first post). So the Land of Ever Young was consumed by the creatures fom the underearth.

[Zeldor]

That map is cool, but it should really get some serious work on starting locations and population of many provinces. Chances to win can be not perfectly equal, but right now gaps are a bit too big.

[Lingchih]

I would vote to set Mictlan to AI.

My start position wasn't bad. Wasn't great, but not bad. I can understand those who got shafted though.

[Jarkko]

That map is cool, but it should really get some serious work on starting locations and population of many provinces. Chances to win can be not perfectly equal, but right now gaps are a bit too big.
I definitively agree with this. Take C'tis position, looks marvelous at first, but it is blody impossible to advance anywhere without a massacre. It'd be damn easier to stomp into a neighbouring players capital than try to take on the independents bordering my capital :(

I know the purpose of this game is to provide good stories, a player-community written history of Faerun. But it is hard to come up with a good story when your leg is chewed off while you bang your forehead against a granite-wall. I guess van Gogh could have made a painting under those circumstances, but I seriously doubt even he would have been able to write a coherent story :P

[Zeldor]

1 prov between capitals is not something you see every day :)

But it looks like pretty much every water prov is available for start. I cannot complain that time much, it's the best of 3 starts, 2 earlier ones were really really bad. I had bad luck with other things, that is attacking the only easy indies in same time as someone else :P

[llamabeast]

I believe we may have the wrong version of the map. Edi PMed me to say he'd seen people had issues on this thread, and he believe the new version does not have such issues. Sorry about that.

[Fakeymcfake]

Well I'm out. Cap's all but taken and I've got no more troops. Enjoy the rest of the game.

[Starshine_Monarch]

Early as it is, I think I've been missing too many turns now. Sorry, but I guess I'll go AI.

[Frozen Lama]

I'll play if you guys need a sub as long as their not too crippled already. looks like you guys have quite a few casualties already.

[Jarkko]

I've agreed with Frozen Lama that he will take over C'tis. I'll send in this turn still, but after that I would like to ask Baalz to change C'tis to Frozen Lama. Frozen Lama, I think Baalz will need your e-mail address, so please PM it to him.

C'tis is not in ultra bad shape, but not in super good shape either. I have now found out I simply do not like the map, and I especially do not like where C'tis has started :( Still, with an enthuastic player and good diplomacy C'tis can be strong, especially after it at turn 40 or so ( ;) ) is finally able to clear the provinces in the vicinity of the capital.

[Calahan]

Sorry to see you go Jarkko :( As besides your fine company :) I think you would have been one of the few to contribute to the story telling side of this game.

The map is certainly unbalanced to say the least. And to back up Drager, his starting position really was the pits. Since besides some seriously tough capital neighbours, the other provinces are either waste or swamp. Hurray, huge gold income available there!

And in theory Agartha have made a good start with claiming a second capital so early, but in reality it actually stinks due to the high number of powerful neighbours, combined with there being bloody barbarian provinces everywhere. Since Agarthan troops + Barbarian encounter = dead Agarthan's.

It's a tough world out there, so keep your heads down!

[Edi]

That map is cool, but it should really get some serious work on starting locations and population of many provinces. Chances to win can be not perfectly equal, but right now gaps are a bit too big.
If you know of problematic ones, please post in the Faerun thread on the map & mod forum, that way I can take a look at things. I checked province 103 and it really is untenable, because I had not checked thoroughly enough. I have no idea where C'tis started in this game, but it may or may not be something that has been fixed.

The map will not fix itself and I need to know about problems in order to correct them.

[Jarkko]

The map will not fix itself and I need to know about problems in order to correct them.
This is very understandable. However, as you may guess, I have had little incentive to reveal exactly *where* C'tisis on the map, because after all it is a MP game and revealing such info at this point might not be healthy.

However, once I get home, I'll PM you what I found problematic. When this game launched, I was happy as a puppy with the position that did appear so strong (yeah, it is strong, but sadly so were the surrounding indies too). Notice that not all in my case has to do with map as such only, I got a really lousy start with three nasty events. The map however is much more unforgiving than some other maps when those things happen early on; if this was a SP I would have restarted ages ago (yeah, I am such weakling :( no stamina to see through the bad days :sick:).

I still think the map is nice for a SP (I am in fact RPing a SP campaign on the map). In a MP enviroment too much toughness simply may be a bit too much. I am also such a weirdo, I play games for fun. When the fun factor has for whatever reason been lost, it is very hard for me to get excited again.



The map is in general great, and it is not fair I posted above that I do not like the map. I *do* like the map, but in this particular case the map (with the random independents + the scripted ones) was enough to break my weak mind. I am certain Frozen Lama will be able to take C'tis to greatness as he will be able to start from a clean slate. I think it is way better for the game to have along somebody who is really keen instead of one whiner who is crying about all those lost possibilities gone during the first four turns.

[BigandScary]

I need a delay on the next turn until Sunday. I will turn in turn 10 in a few minutes, but I will be away from my computer until Sunday after that and will not be able to do turn 11.

[Baalz]

I need a delay on the next turn until Sunday. I will turn in turn 10 in a few minutes, but I will be away from my computer until Sunday after that and will not be able to do turn 11.

Well, the problem is, with so many people playing there's pretty much always going to be somebody who needs an extension...a couple days for each person who asks I fear is going to result in us being paused more often than we're playing. I'm betting that if you ask around you shouldn't have too hard a time lining up somebody to take a turn or two for you, this is a pretty helpful community and the early turns can be done in just a couple minutes (assuming you have a net connection!).

[Lingchih]

The foresters of Pangaea welcome their new neighbors, Ulm and Sauromatia. We sincerely hope that our relations can be straightforward and diplomatic.

[DonCorazon]

I don't want to sub but since I downloaded the map and mods to turn Mictlan AI if someone needs a turn or two done, I can help out - just PM me.

[coobe]

im sorry for the stale...

i reinstalled my OS and now i notice that my laptop cant read my dom3 CD :( :( :(

i have no clue what to do ....

could we get a sub for me ?

[Lingchih]

Sound like Coobe could use your help, DonC.

[DonCorazon]

coobe's cursed - he's never finished any MP game i've been in with him - you guys were crazy to let him in :).

anyway, my post was in response to bigandscary - happy to take a turn or two since he was out for a few days but i don't want to take over for someone permanently. sounds like coobe wants a sub...

[Calahan]

I have jumped the gun here and started to search for a substitute for 'coobe' / R'yleh. Hope that's ok with everyone :)

ps. @ Baalz - Hinnom staled last turn, so if DC is willing to take a few turns for 'BigandScary' / Hinnom until his/her return on Sunday, then can you please change the email address over. Thanks in advance.