Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Game Over. Noobs Triumph!

[Lavaere]

don't we have alts for our team, ain't times like this when we call in help

[atul]

Well now, this is getting fun!

EDIT: And Caelum, I hope you knew even flying units need a neighbouring province to retreat to. Not so sorry about that Eagle King you just lost. :p

[namad]

my internet is back up

[Septimius Severus]

don't we have alts for our team, ain't times like this when we call in helpNo stales so far which means:

(a) interest is still high
(b) the hosting interval has been sufficient
(c) we've been lucky

Or any combination of the 3.

The critical first 10 turns (when I consider an alternate imperative) are over though, but if anyone's having any issues and needs a sub, yes that is what the alternates are for.

Current interval is 48 hours (at vet team's request) which should be enough time for everyone. If people would like to return to the 40 hour scheduled host, that is fine by me as well.

[Lingchih]

48 hours is fine, though I don't think I have ever been in a game that went to 48 on turn 11. The difference between 48 and 40 is not much.

And, in retrospect, I don't see why I was in such a hurry to get my turn. I just got my butt kicked again.

[melnorjr]

Hmm. It is quite apparent now that I did end up with that fight I picked earlier. :p I hope it doesn't come back to bite me, though it seems I at least surprised Atul with that last fight.

[TheDemon]

Thought you guys might enjoy this:

(12:08:50 PM) namad4: we needa get some reports from baalz
(12:09:18 PM) Ironhawk: REPORT AS FOLLOWS:
(12:09:28 PM) Ironhawk: Mai Tai's are great here
(12:09:38 PM) Ironhawk: Ocean breeze really relaxing.
(12:09:45 PM) Ironhawk: Good luck with the war!
(12:09:50 PM) Ironhawk: <3s, Baalz
(12:10:28 PM) Ironhawk: he sent me that by telegram to forward to you guys

[Septimius Severus]

Well now, this is getting fun!

EDIT: And Caelum, I hope you knew even flying units need a neighbouring province to retreat to. Not so sorry about that Eagle King you just lost. :pCourageous acts :medal: just come naturally to noob team members.

[Skinu]

Yeah I knew.

What I didn't know however, was that I am a very very bad man to command an army after smoking copious amounts of tropical plants.

[Septimius Severus]

Only waiting for one player (Ashdod) this turn.

[Baalz]

Okay, back in town (late) tonight, so should be more engaged going forward. Didn't even have a data connection on my phone so all my coordination and communication had to be done in however long I could stand swatting mosquitos using my laptop. If I'd realized I'd have tried to line up a sub... Anyway, grab thy ankles newbs, big stinky baalz is coming for you.

[Lavaere]

Woohoo I'm going to finish my fort... damnit, Baalz. You couldn't wait for them to finish painting first.

[Septimius Severus]

Glad to see that Pelthin's internet issues have cleared up.

[atul]

Disappointing turn.

Everyone just runs away from me or does their best to evade my guys. What's up team noob? Vanheim wants to play!

[TwoBits]

We're too busy treating Ermor like a Rottweiler treats a rag doll! :evil:

[atul]

Huh, that's not nice.

Do I have to come in over there and teach you some manners?!?

[Lingchih]

We're too busy treating Ermor like a Rottweiler treats a rag doll! :evil:

Well, this rag doll has poison inside it. So have fun with it while you can.

[Squirrelloid]

He thinks we're going to actually bother storming his castle while he's still in the game. Funny.

[atul]

Nah, you're just bluffing trying to bluff you're bluffing a bluff.

Double negative doesn't not make it right.

[TwoBits]

Well, this rag doll has poison inside it. So have fun with it while you can.

Good thing C'tis has partial poison immunity! :p

[Raiel]

We're too busy treating Ermor like a Rottweiler treats a rag doll! :evil:

Well, this rag doll has poison inside it. So have fun with it while you can.

We are. No matter how the game goes from here, this struggle in the north has made it all worthwhile.

[Joelz]

Hello, Ulm here.
I will be having a LAN party with my friends which lasts from friday to saturday. Just in case that I might not be able to post my turn in the limits of time I would like to ask for a delay in the hosting.

Also, I'd better mention in advance that me and my family will be leaving for London next monday and are staying there for 4 days.

When we come I should have 1 day free time. Then I will be holding another LAN party :doh:, with my other friends and am likely to be unavailable for 2 days.

I would appreciate if you could just delay until im back, but of course nobody likes to wait, so you could ask for an alternate. I would prefer to stay in the game, but it's up to you. Please let me know by sunday.

[atul]

Well you can have an alternate or teammate substitute you for the interim. If it's okay with you? That appears like more than week's delay, which would be a bit of a pain.

[TwoBits]

Well you can have an alternate or teammate substitute you for the interim. If it's okay with you? That appears like more than week's delay, which would be a bit of a pain.

Teammate subs are kosher? That kind of temporary switch should be easy enough to arrange.

[Squirrelloid]

Thinking of which, there'll be substantial time when i'll be away. I have a friend lined up to sub my other games, but I wasn't sure what would be acceptable for this. I imagine Hoplo wouldn't mind taking over somewhat briefly for a nation not getting torn to shreds... Or possibly one of my fellow northerners since they have a better grasp of the local tactical and strategic situation.

I'll figure something out before i disappear for a bit.

[rdonj]

The only problem with a teammate sub is that it won't always work. It would be better to get an alternate. If hoplosternum is taken out though yeah, he could sub for someone.

Just make sure to leave your alternate with detailed notes so they know what's going on and what your plans are.

[Joelz]

Plans? What plans? ;)
But seriously though, I've got no plans. Except for the one which includes smashing Baalz :p
But if hoplo does "sub" me what does it mean? Does it mean I'm out for good or that once I return I'll take over again?

[rdonj]

Once you return you'd take over again. A sub is generally just a temporary substitute player who keeps turns going for a nation while its player is for some reason unavailable.

[Joelz]

Okay then. PM sent to Hoplo.

[melnorjr]

Disappointing turn.

Everyone just runs away from me or does their best to evade my guys. What's up team noob? Vanheim wants to play!

I assume you're including me(arco)?

Why on earth would I fight an army with an army that just lost to it?

and what's up Atul, hiding behind marignon raids so I can't attack you? If you want to fight me, don't send marignon to raid my land so my armies have to deal with him instead of you!

:p

[atul]

Why on earth?

Well, for one reason, it would be fun?

And I'm not hiding behind anyone's raids, I'm yelling to TheDemon to stop the killstealing! Not only does he try to hog your cap, he's going to get Jotun's pretender too! I do all the hard lifting and the others get the glory! Is this called teamwork?!?

Pokey says: YES!

But guess your options always were: either try to buy your teammates time by harrassing me or save your own behind by responding to Marignon's raids. Dunno if either is valid anymore. :p

[TheDemon]

Oh come on now, I'm hardly a legitimate threat to anyone.

[melnorjr]

Why on earth?

Well, for one reason, it would be fun?

And I'm not hiding behind anyone's raids, I'm yelling to TheDemon to stop the killstealing! Not only does he try to hog your cap, he's going to get Jotun's pretender too! I do all the hard lifting and the others get the glory! Is this called teamwork?!?

Pokey says: YES!

But guess your options always were: either try to buy your teammates time by harrassing me or save your own behind by responding to Marignon's raids. Dunno if either is valid anymore. :p

Well, the attack on your cap was, of course, an attempt to at least slow you down on jotun.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel just yet, btw.

and marignon? hog my cap? I just beat an army of his with 20 pd. Unless he has a much bigger army just outside my dominion, then I'm not afraid of him right now - he just forced me to stop attacking you to kick his raiders out of my land.

[Squirrelloid]

Ok, come now, just because we have 48 hour turns doesn't mean you're obligated to take all 48 hours. I know, team N00b also has one outstanding turn 2, but its the same players who are taking a long time for both teams.

Not to rush you Namad, but do you really need 48h for every turn?

I've already made my comments to Bandar in the N00b forums, not that he appears to be reading them.

[Septimius Severus]

We may need to do some reorganizing next turn to keep things moving smoothly.

[Septimius Severus]

Turn posted.

I am removing Lavaere from the game.

[atul]

Arco, why are you running away?

In other news, talk about lucky breaks and movement wonkiness working in your favour. So Caelum, we're at turn 15 and you've lost at least... 6 or so capital-only mages against me alone. Feeling lucky?

[melnorjr]

Arco, why are you running away?

In other news, talk about lucky breaks and movement wonkiness working in your favour. So Caelum, we're at turn 15 and you've lost at least... 6 or so capital-only mages against me alone. Feeling lucky?

We just had that conversation 8 posts ago.

I haven't reassessed the likelihood of my army that failed against you the first time of, in a weakened state, beating you and concluded that it was at all likely. It needs reinforcements to have a chance.

And the fun of watching my elephants cleaved in two by your skinshifters doesn't outweigh the fun of getting some manner of use out of them.

[melnorjr]

Arco, why are you running away?

In other news, talk about lucky breaks and movement wonkiness working in your favour. So Caelum, we're at turn 15 and you've lost at least... 6 or so capital-only mages against me alone. Feeling lucky?

What's this? Fire-magic based unrest events on my capitol? Calling for more help from marignon, Atul?

You really don't want to fight me, do you? or at least not without all kinds of interference from friends.

[TheDemon]

Speaking of friends, you may want to re-assess your intel on my armies. It just cost one of your friends one of his.

[atul]

All is fair in love and war.

<3

[TheDemon]

Hey Arco, my time travellers brought me a video from the future http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFRulEdsnJA&feature=related

[atul]

That's probably one of the most wasteful yet most efficcient way of disposing calligraphers...

[LumenPlacidum]

Kudos to Marignon for the excellent deployment against the spiders. Good timing with the morale-based prison of fire as I was coming out of the wasteland with size 5 troops. Didn't see it coming that time. I hope I don't make that mistake again. :rolleyes:

Oh, er... *Ahem!* I mean... Avast ye vets! Ye'll be food for the arachnids and we'll turn your shrunken heads into prophetic fetishes dangling from the sorcerers' huts! Or something.

[Hoplosternum]

In other news, talk about lucky breaks and movement wonkiness working in your favour. So Caelum, we're at turn 15 and you've lost at least... 6 or so capital-only mages against me alone. Feeling lucky?

Fortunately they are not capital only and Caelum has 3 Forts.... :)

Sadly my Capital still looks doomed :(

But thanks to the Vet team for letting me build my second fortress :up: ;)

[atul]

...huh, all the time I've thought they are cap-only. What's the point with the A2W1 mages then?

Oh well, more work to do.

[melnorjr]

Speaking of friends, you may want to re-assess your intel on my armies. It just cost one of your friends one of his.

I'm quite aware of that army.

[melnorjr]

Hey Arco, my time travellers brought me a video from the future http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFRulEdsnJA&feature=related

That's fine, but seeing as that's tien'chi architecture, I think your time travelers missed my empire by about 300 miles.

perhaps you should hire some new scouts?

[namad]

why has laevere been removed from the game? who is replacing him?


Additionally... as far as I am aware I have delayed the hosting of the game once, and once only. Feel free to try determining who has been delaying the game, but as far as I know i'm the only with enough free time on my hands to monitor the page of submissions constantly.


Also your post makes no sense at the time it was posted. As at the time you posted that post a new turn was extremely fresh and even perhaps no one had submitted yet.

[rdonj]

Septimius had lavaere removed because he was always waiting until the last minute to do his turns and many of the noobs felt he wasn't really trying to play well. For the moment hoplosternum is playing both jotunheim and bandar log's turns. This may change in the future.

Also, turns 4-15:

Noob Gold Total - 227412
Noob Gem Total - 1068

Vet Gold Total - 101634
Vet Gem Total - 642

Gold ratio - 2.23x
Gem ratio - 1.66x

[Lingchih]

Things look grim for Mysterioso. Black servants are now trying to sneak his casket out of the capitol, because no one has had time to re-awaken him yet.

Good double team Pyth, C'tis. I might have been able to stop it if I had been expecting it that early, but alas, I was not. In retrospect, I should have just taken my circle, not expanded any more, and just researched and re-animated.

[Lavaere]

woohoo it took a couple of days but I have internet again. so hows the game going
any bloody battles lately

[Septimius Severus]

why has laevere been removed from the game? who is replacing him?
Rdonj, is correct regarding lavaere. The most important reason though was lack of participation/coordination/communication on the noob team forum. Even if you have only 2 provinces you are expected to participate/coordinate/communicate with the team as a whole. This is clearly stated in the opening post. I am glad that lavaere participated a 3rd time and I thank him for that, but I need the full participation of everyone involved.

[Septimius Severus]

Noob team substitution:

Stretch will be coming in for Ulm (Joelz), effective turn 16 temporarily until he returns.

[TwoBits]

Good double team Pyth, C'tis. I might have been able to stop it if I had been expecting it that early, but alas, I was not. In retrospect, I should have just taken my circle, not expanded any more, and just researched and re-animated.

Well, the fat lady hasn't sung yet, so I'm not ready to claim victory just now. But I will say, being sandwiched between Pythium (big Holy and Astral) and C'tis (big Holy and Death) is about the unluckiest match-up imaginable for Ermor. Just the luck of the draw, I guess :angel

You can take some consolation in that I just lost two Arch Theurgs to Ashdod is [I]very[I] noobish fashion :doh:

[melnorjr]

Good double team Pyth, C'tis. I might have been able to stop it if I had been expecting it that early, but alas, I was not.

Sorry, that would be my fault.

Well, the fat lady hasn't sung yet, so I'm not ready to claim victory just now. But I will say, being sandwiched between Pythium (big Holy and Astral) and C'tis (big Holy and Death) is about the unluckiest match-up imaginable for Ermor. Just the luck of the draw, I guess

Not quite the luck of the draw. ermor was predictably going to be placed on one of the poles, and with pythium/c'tis at the top, and arco/jotun at the bottom, neither pole would have been fun.

[TheDemon]

I guess it doesn't hurt to mention that we seriously considered swapping our north-south placements because they might have been somewhat predictable. I think I made the argument that just because the strongest placement was the most obvious doesn't mean we should change it, so you can blame this one squarely on me. Had we followed atul's plan we may have done better.

edit: I'm not really seeing how Arco/Jotun would be a great matchup against Ermor. Were it me I would have gone with Caelum/Abysia. But I am sure you had your reasons.

[namad]

jotunheim and arco are actually the worst nations on your entire team for facing ermor. It is undebatable arco is the worst and jotunheim is at least not good even if it's not strictly the worst....

[melnorjr]

jotunheim and arco are actually the worst nations on your entire team for facing ermor. It is undebatable arco is the worst and jotunheim is at least not good even if it's not strictly the worst....

Really? There seem some obvious counters. too obvious maybe?

[TheDemon]

jotunheim and arco are actually the worst nations on your entire team for facing ermor. It is undebatable arco is the worst and jotunheim is at least not good even if it's not strictly the worst....

Really? There seem some obvious counters. too obvious maybe?

I think namad exaggerates a bit, but his general point is correct. Elephants are terrible against high-def, high-morale undead, and can't reliably trample ethereal units, and Ermor's typical research path takes him straight to some of the good elephant counters. Jotun's giants have poor attack and are vulnerable to swarming, and have no magic weapons. Neither nation has H3 priests or magic weapons of any sort.

I of course can't say how it would have turned out, but the matchup is nowhere near as difficult as the one up north.

[atul]

And I was suggesting the placement swap purely by being afraid that team noob would put some Van killers to obvious sailing start. Never occurred to me Ermor had its achilles heel nations too.

Oh well, hindsight.

[melnorjr]

jotunheim and arco are actually the worst nations on your entire team for facing ermor. It is undebatable arco is the worst and jotunheim is at least not good even if it's not strictly the worst....

Really? There seem some obvious counters. too obvious maybe?

I think namad exaggerates a bit, but his general point is correct. Elephants are terrible against high-def, high-morale undead, and can't reliably trample ethereal units, and Ermor's typical research path takes him straight to some of the good elephant counters. Jotun's giants have poor attack and are vulnerable to swarming, and have no magic weapons. Neither nation has H3 priests or magic weapons of any sort.

I of course can't say how it would have turned out, but the matchup is nowhere near as difficult as the one up north.

I suppose I must admit that. I would have thought, however, that the death magic of jotun would have been of good use, and I had a few plans on how to fight ermor if I was near him that I'm not going to say anything about while I'm still in a game with you guys.

[namad]

jotunheim has weak and expensive priests.

dust to dust isn't quite the same as banishment...

facts are just facts. no nation is absolutely worthless against another nation so being the worst at something isn't meant cruelly or insultingly.

[Hoplosternum]

As Jotunheim I was more worried about Vanheim than Ermor with their high defence / high damage units - all of them - not just the sacreds. Giants don't care about the opponents Protection so much. Though I agree they would not be that good against Ermor either.

In hindsight Jotunheim were not a good choice for being one of the point nations. While Giants can expand fast enough against indies (especially indie 4s!) their strength is more in their recruitable anywhere Skrattis, blood magic etc. rather than their recruitable troops and they take some time to get going.

[Lingchih]

OK, probably final time for this, but:

Get your Freaking turns in!

[TwoBits]

Skinu (Caelum) left this on the Noob forum yesterday:

"if there is any way to get a 24 hour delay on the end of the deadline I can take my turn (I'm going to a friends who will let me borrow his net), if there isn't, I'm out of luck (and the game) untill Monday when they fix my internets."

Less than three hours to hosting.

[rdonj]

Okay I've postponed the turn. I'd forgotten he said that and was pretty sure that he'd gotten a sub for the turn. Sorry lingchih, looks like you'll have to wait a little longer.

[atul]

Wow, a truely lucky hit by whoever's casting those Fires from Afar (Abysia?). Killed only one unit and it was the leader causing a cascade failure elsewhere.

Lady Luck giveth, Lady Luck taketh.

[Squirrelloid]

Wow, a truely lucky hit by whoever's casting those Fires from Afar (Abysia?). Killed only one unit and it was the leader causing a cascade failure elsewhere.

Lady Luck giveth, Lady Luck taketh.

Province 10? That would have been me.

And its about time I had *some* luck in this game...

(Don't even talk to me abot getting attacked by independents... 5x, all in stupidly large numbers. I've seen independent attack events I didnt even know existed!)

[Lingchih]

A scout raid? On my cap? At this point in the game?

Ermor spits in your face C'tis.

[Raiel]

C'tis calmly wipes the spittle from his face, pleased with the mandatory emancipation of 13 gladiators and acquisition of intelligence regarding remaining defensive force composition.



Seriously... I'm a noob, and I'm worried about being overly ambitious. I've been expecting you to hit me with something completely dibilitating for the last 8 turns. I just haven't got the experience to judge whether or not another player is truly as vulnerable as he may appear. Besides, I knew you had gladiators in there.

[Lingchih]

No, good play Raiel. It was useful for you to knock those glads out, though there were only 12 of them. I expect a full attack next turn though!

[TheDemon]

Well, you have to balance the risk of X number of glads kicking your butt when you storm (and you don't really know how many are in there, could have been 100s) vs the potential full income of the cap and gem income for an extra turn.

[chrispedersen]

So whats the score, newbs vs old timers?

[LumenPlacidum]

So whats the score, newbs vs old timers?

One game to one game, with this third being pretty tense so far. So far it seems like the noobs are down a player to the vets being almost down a player. Trickery could potentially foil plans still.

There's no real "first blood" declaration yet, though it should happen fairly soon.

[DrPraetorious]

The noobs are routed throughout the land. Their screams of terror and pleas for mercy fall on deaf ears - the stupidity of their inbred, incontinent leadership (too busy defecating on their siblings to provide direction in the field) has doomed them all to an ignominious death, which may be quick but will not be merciful.

[melnorjr]

The noobs are routed throughout the land. Their screams of terror and pleas for mercy fall on deaf ears - the stupidity of their inbred, incontinent leadership (too busy defecating on their siblings to provide direction in the field) has doomed them all to an ignominious death, which may be quick but will not be merciful.

Well, aside from being a blatant lie(ermor is much more in a rout than c'tis or pythium), I demand a slow and torturous death! And a public execution with lots of nominy! I demand to be made a martyr!

[VampiricDread]

Lacking a better choice, I congratulate my Shrapnel friends on this thread for their 10th aniversary. I wish you all an entusiastic year of sales and a thriving dedicated community.

Always your devoted friend,

Vampiric Dread

[rdonj]

*blink*

[atul]

He blinked first!

At 'em!

(Yeah, didn't get it either)

[Stretch]

Is there any way I can get an extension for this turn? I know I agreed to sub but I just worked for 13.5 hours (was expecting 9). Let me know soon please... if I don't see confirmation I'll do what I can.

[TwoBits]

Is there any way I can get an extension for this turn? I know I agreed to sub but I just worked for 13.5 hours (was expecting 9). Let me know soon please... if I don't see confirmation I'll do what I can.

Stretch is our new Ulm player (welcome from Pythium, by the way!), and might need some extra time to familiarize himself with his new race, and catch up on the information and requests at the Noob forum. So can someone give him a little more time? Only 3 hours to go until hosting. Besides, I see Ashdod has not sent in their turn either, so it's not just us Noobs ;)

[namad]

actually i was helping ulm... my turn is done... if you want i'll just submit it right now.

if he submits a partial turn and then an admin comes on and wants to extend the turn.... my unsubmitted turn will help him...


as i've already told you... i'm not playing slowly i'm just staring at the timesheet.


there is no need for me to get an extension. extensions will be freely granted to anyone who asks for them with enough time left for an admin to grant them... thats the position the admin's have stated.... with only 3hours to go... he might just be out of luck... he had 45hours to ask for the delay sooner.

if the vet team had an admin i'm sure we'd be glad to help ;) but we don't

[rdonj]

Extension granted.

[Stretch]

I stuck it out and have my turn ready for submission. Just sent in, we'll see how long it takes to get to llamaserver. I'm going to get a few hours of exhausted sleep before getting up for work again... thanks for having my back rdonj!

[Lingchih]

In your face Ctis! You don't take Ermor that easily. Crawl home to your mother.

[Squirrelloid]

I'm going to be gone from tomorrow evening (effectively) through next week Monday. I'll still be able to have a reduced online presence, and i'll be able to get the 'new' (current) turn in tomorrow. So, should i be trying to find an alternate, or can we put the game on a brief hiatus? Given past play history, its like a three day extension.

If I can find a way to play while I'm away from my normal computer, i'll let you know - but i certainly won't be playing next weekend.

[melnorjr]

WHat's up with the single commander assault/retreats on my province, atul? Trying to bait me into opening myself up for marignon? Or just afraid of that privince because of what happened last time you attacked it?

[atul]

Maybe I just like seeing those red arrows?

[Raiel]

In your face Ctis! You don't take Ermor that easily. Crawl home to your mother.


Yes, well, the great demon Murphy has struck again... I'll grant that the capitol battle was always going to be decided by a little luck for either of us. And what beautiful fortune that was, eh?

But the eastern province that cut off my retreat? Come, now... that was simply chaos in action.

Clean up time, I guess.

[atul]

Just saw my turn (finally), and I know I shouldn't gloat, but...

Caelum, Caelum, Caelum, you never learn.

:rofl:

[Lingchih]

Yes, well, the great demon Murphy has struck again... I'll grant that the capitol battle was always going to be decided by a little luck for either of us. And what beautiful fortune that was, eh?

But the eastern province that cut off my retreat? Come, now... that was simply chaos in action.

Clean up time, I guess.

Actually, that was all carefully planned. That was your only retreat prov. If I could take it and win at the cap, your army was history.

Of course, you are right, I needed a whole lot of luck to make it all work. I just happened to get that luck.

[namad]

a bit of theory from magic the gathering.... IF THE ONLY WAY TO WIN IS TO GET LUCKY: ASSUME YOU WILL GET LUCKY. even if it's a really really long shot a billion to one... if it's the only way assume it will happen and let it happen..

[Squirrelloid]

I have a substitute through thursday. Sorry for the delay over the coming weekend.

[namad]

you are supposed to be able to rely on teammates to play for you during time periods you cannot play... players shouldn't even need to go outside of that pool to look for subs, should they? Your teammates should be much more intimately familiar with the gamestate than your friend who isn't in the game?

[rdonj]

Relying on teammates is a bad idea. Because it's very easy to end up with both nations staling, and with a large, powerful nation like shinuyama at this stage of the game, that would be pretty lame.

Noobs vs Vets has a pool of "alternates" that are theoretically there to pick up these positions. One of them is taking over for ulm atm. But as far as I'm concerned at least as long as someone is playing the nation it's fine.

[Squirrelloid]

the person subbing for me also happens to be a longtime friend of mine who i've discussed the game with to some extent, so he's not exactly going in blind.

[Septimius Severus]

Pardon my absence, was away at a conference. Glad to see that any issues were resolved.

[atul]

None Shall Pass.

[LumenPlacidum]

Heh, Marignon and your building labs for my forces to enjoy while we chase you around. Admittedly, I had been having considerable difficulty getting magical items to these commanders.

[TheDemon]

Heh, Marignon and your building labs for my forces to enjoy while we chase you around. Admittedly, I had been having considerable difficulty getting magical items to these commanders.

Ironically that lab originally belonged to your buddy Arco. I sure hope he found it or got it from an event, because if he built it that means when I took the prov I killed a fort of his under construction.

[TwoBits]

Stupid Father of Winters! Well, I hope you like Horrors, I expect you're going to be visited by them frequently :mad:

[LumenPlacidum]

Er... Hooray! Now we're learning about equipping pretenders as SCs!

[melnorjr]

Heh, Marignon and your building labs for my forces to enjoy while we chase you around. Admittedly, I had been having considerable difficulty getting magical items to these commanders.

Ironically that lab originally belonged to your buddy Arco. I sure hope he found it or got it from an event, because if he built it that means when I took the prov I killed a fort of his under construction.

My fort was going to be completed on the turn you took the province.

Jerk.

j/k

[atul]

Er... Hooray! Now we're learning about equipping pretenders as SCs!

Yes. The advanced lesson, "how to counter said SCs", is left as an exercise to readers for now.

Interim, remember:

Winter Is Coming.

[melnorjr]

Er... Hooray! Now we're learning about equipping pretenders as SCs!

Yes. The advanced lesson, "how to counter said SCs", is left as an exercise to readers for now.

Interim, remember:

Winter Is Coming.

Oh, there's a dozen ways to counter an SC depending on their stats.

Care to send me a screenshot so I can figure the counter to yours?

[atul]

Nah, I'm not in the mood of doing your teammate's work for you.

[Joelz]

Hello there. I'm back from London and have to admit that Stretch has done a terrific job! Nice work.
Well, off to the second LAN. See you in 3 days ;)

[TwoBits]

I see our Machaka player (LumenPlacidum) hasn't submitted a turn yet, with barely two hours to go. I've heard there have been some problems with turns getting through to Llamaserver recently. Can someone check that everything is going OK here?

[rdonj]

I will pm and email him. Additionally I will add 4 hours to the hosting, hopefully that will be enough time to make sure everything is working.

[namad]

nevermind, sorry

[LumenPlacidum]

I had timed it out myself knowing I was getting home late today. My turn is now submitted... within the original time limit. Thanks for the concern.

[melnorjr]

Lol! The vile grand master that wins 4 magic duels with higher astral mages....dies to a random slinger stone.

[Raiel]

Lol! The vile grand master that wins 4 magic duels with higher astral mages....dies to a random slinger stone.

David really has become so cliche that he never gets the credit he deserves. ;)

[Septimius Severus]

FYI. The current turn (19) will likely need to be extended 24-36 hours as per Squirreloid's (Shinuyama) request and due to his sub Iainuku, not being available over the weekend.

[Septimius Severus]

I'm back from London and have to admit that Stretch has done a terrific job! Nice work.

Go Stretch, go! Woe to the vets who must face you.

[Lingchih]

Ermor still stands. A Green Dragon awaits to be killed. The Grand Thaumaturgs have a dastardly plan for it.

Hmm? Where did Pythium go? He must have had more urgent needs in other lands.

[namad]

since we are so sure shinyuma won't be back till monday.... let's add a delay now... that way people who don't check this forum won't rush to hurry the turn in sunday night after checking llamaserver.net...


if we know there will be a delay... let's add it early so everyone benefits equally from the extra time and piece of mind.

[rdonj]

One of the noobs has volunteered to take the turn for shinuyama if my sub hunting thread doesn't pan out. So there actually should not be a delay. You may rejoice.

[Septimius Severus]

One of the noobs has volunteered to take the turn for shinuyama if my sub hunting thread doesn't pan out. So there actually should not be a delay. You may rejoice.

Well that is good news. Go to it then.

[Squirrelloid]

Ok, so it seems i'm going to be gone again sooner than I had thought I would be - so Iainuki can continue as Shinuyama for awhile. I'll let people know when I'm back. His plane should also be landing soon, so if Shinuyama hasn't taken a turn yet he can probably do the current turn without too many problems...

[rdonj]

Well, bugger. When do you think you'll be back, squirrel? Raiel has the current turn dealt with. I can switch control back over to Iainuki once the current turn hosts. If it ever does....

[Raiel]

The Shin bone is connected to the Ash-kicking bone.:smirk:

Seriously, though... I'll be glad to hand it back off. I don't really like trying to hold two Master Plans in my head: especially knowing that my Master Plan for Shin would not be that of the original owner.

[rdonj]

Noob Gold Total - 364,251
Noob Gem Total - 1,969
Vet Gold Total - 147,193
Vet Gem Total - 1056

Gold advantage: 2.47x
Gem advantage: 1.86x

Over the last few turns the noobs seem to have really been opening up the gem gap. It will be interesting to see if they can capitalize on it.

Raiel, looking at the score graphs this turn it seems ashdod has dropped by an amount of gold more or less equivalent to that of a cap. Does this mean you have him under siege? :shock:

[Raiel]

Hah! I may be performing O.K. for a noob, but that would have been a miracle for a non-teleporting/TC nation.

Nothing quite that spectacular, but let's just say that I don't think Shin will be feeling any serious pressure for a turn or two.

[Septimius Severus]

Opening/main post updated to reflect current player situtation. The only e-mail address (for alternates) we are lacking is Morpf's. If anyone can reach him direct him to this post/thread.

[Lingchih]

Heh, think you can take me, C'tis? Well, OK, bring it on.

Honestly, I would have had Pyth do the job. He's a better match on me.

[Joelz]

Okay, I'm back from the Lan and would like to resume my game as Ulm when a proper moment arrives :happy:

[Septimius Severus]

This has turned out to be quite an exciting and interesting game. For the benefit of those who may be following:

It would appear the noobs have gained a bit of dominance in the North, with the nearly complete destruction of Ermor and the prospect of Ashdod standing alone, whilst in the South led by vet Vanheim, the situation is somewhat reversed with Jottunheim hard pressed as Caelum and Arco now face some pressure.

Is this the end of the Mysteria(o,oso)line?

Can the vets save Ermor?

Can the noobs stay alive in the south?

Will the water provinces play any strategic role?

Will this turn into a north/south struggle?

:gossip::popcorn:

Whatever, the outcome, let us thank Lingchih for all his efforts on behalf of the Noobs vs. Vets Series. The father of the vet team, a firm believer in the series, and the inspiration for its ridiculous but humorous plotline. This time I hope we can make it to at least turn 40 before either side concedes.

[Septimius Severus]

Okay, I'm back from the Lan and would like to resume my game as Ulm when a proper moment arrives :happy:We can switch you back as early as turn 21 if you and Stretch are OK with that.

[Joelz]

Theres no need to hurry. If Stretch is in the middle of something he wants to finish I can wait a few turns. I'll be monitoring the forums at all times :)

[Raiel]

Heh, think you can take me, C'tis? Well, OK, bring it on.

Honestly, I would have had Pyth do the job. He's a better match on me.

That may be, but you guys did a decent job of maneuvering us into a situation where this match up had to happen again.

I'll refrain from speculating for a turn or two...

[atul]

Please do speculate, it's the salt of this game.

A bit like generals of opposing armies having a toast while their underlings slaughter each other on nearby battlefield. Gentlemen must be civilized, after all.

[Raiel]

Please do speculate, it's the salt of this game.

A bit like generals of opposing armies having a toast while their underlings slaughter each other on nearby battlefield. Gentlemen must be civilized, after all.


All right. I hereby speculate that if I were to publicly speculate upon the outcome of alledgedly imminent conflicts between opposing forces, one belonging to C'tis and the other to Ermor, that such speculation may result in alterations to existing plans on the part of mine enemies, possibly to the determent of my team's long term goals.

[LumenPlacidum]

Our secret weapon is militias.

[atul]

Oh.

From appearances it would've seem barbarians.

But you got me there. Totally. Like.

My secret weapons are skinshifters. Trust me on that one.

[Squirrelloid]

Shinuyama's secret weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

[TwoBits]

Less than 5 hours to go, and 7 nations have not yet submitted their turns - what's going on? Three of the seven are Vets, so it's not a team problem. Do we need a delay or something?

[melnorjr]

Shinuyama's secret weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

That never was my favorite sketch.

:O

[LumenPlacidum]

My favorite was always the Ministry of Silly Walks.

[Pelthin]

I named all my commanders after quirky Monty Phython Sketches once..

I had the Knight name Ni
Then I had the Knight name Formerly called NI

Ect... I thought it was funny.

[Squirrelloid]

For the movies I'm actually rather partial to Life of Brian, although Holy Grail does have a special place in my heart.

For sketches my favorite is probably the philosopher's song from Live from the Orange Bowl.

[TwoBits]

About 3.5 hours to go, and 5 teams have still not submitted turns!

Oh, and "'how can you tell he's the king?' 'Well, he doesn't have **** all over him'" - I may be (OK, almost certainly am) remembering that scene incorrectly, but it's been a while ;)

[rdonj]

With two hours on the clock and 5 players with outstanding turns, I'm postponing the hosting a few hours. Please get your turns in as soon as possible people.

[melnorjr]

My favorite was always the Ministry of Silly Walks.

Yes! the ministry of silly walks is awesome.

Incidentally, my favorite comedy sketch of all time?

Your name, sir? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNoS2BU6bbQ

or maybe the classic: Who's on first.

other good ones are the argument clinic, (monty python I think)
or the hedge sketch.(fry and laurie)

[Pelthin]

Awesome! Dr House prior to well um.. Dr. House!!!

[melnorjr]

Awesome! Dr House prior to well um.. Dr. House!!!

Yeah, he and stephen fry had their own comedy show in england for awhile. some of their sketches are great. Its odd to think that he was a comedian before he was Dr. House isn't it?

[LumenPlacidum]

Woo! That was exciting. A shame I must have misjudged all those ranges on my mages. I mean, fire elementals? All they did was burn a bunch of my own spiders.

[Lingchih]

Good bye all, Mysteria's line is vanquished for all time. Good luck to the vets. My worst game of the series, but I do have to say I was getting a bit burnt out on it.

[Stretch]

Thanks for sticking with it for one last hurrah, Ling. Good games. :)

[Raiel]

Well fought throughout, Lingchih!

I learned a great deal from our few encounters and I look forward to meeting you on more even terms.

[TwoBits]

Well fought throughout, Lingchih!

I learned a great deal from our few encounters and I look forward to meeting you on more even terms.


I'll second that - you kept things real interesting in the north, despite the long odds. Thanks!

[LumenPlacidum]

Ugh, TheDemon, did you have to move to the one place where it's so much more difficult to predict where you're going to go next? :rolleyes:

Maybe I should have countered that army earlier...

[atul]

Okay, that was embarrassing. Killed by a lone passed out mage.

...damn 50 round rule.

Happens to the best of us... :p

[TwoBits]

Okay, that was embarrassing. Killed by a lone passed out mage.

...damn 50 round rule.

Happens to the best of us... :p

Yea, auto-rout rule! (OK, sorry, that was a cheap 'victory' on my part, I know :angel ) You know, I think you would have clobbered me completely if you'd skipped Grip of Winter - it was sort of like watching an old Benny Hill sketch seeing your god dash back and forth up the field trying to kill all my scattered, half frozen troops :D

Well, that's a lesson for both of us - always beware of the 50/75 round rule, and don't get lazy with your scripting ("Twist Fate, Personal Luck, Communion Slave/Master, and I'm sure you guys will figure out the rest out from there... whah? Paralyze? You really think that crap's going to work against that guy? Ugh...:doh:).

Anyhow, your boy did plenty of damage before his "accident", so don't feel too bad. I just hope he stays up in paradise for a few months before he's called back into action... :p

PS - and when he is back, can you pester someone else with him next time? :eek:

[atul]

Well... you can judge his time to stay away by my recruitable commanders and his future plans by the needs of my teammates so...

...sorry, won't be obliging. :p

[Stretch]

My sub duties for Ulm are complete. It was a lot of fun, and this game looks like it will continue to be interesting for many turns. In, closing, Death to Eriu!

[Joelz]

My sub duties for Ulm are complete. It was a lot of fun, and this game looks like it will continue to be interesting for many turns. In, closing, Death to Eriu!

Couldn't agree more with you on those. Thank you for subbing and good luck with your other games :)

[TheDemon]

Can I get an 8 hour extension on the current turn? I'm going to be delayed monday and probably won't get home until after the current deadline.

[rdonj]

Extension granted.

[iainuki]

Is anyone else having trouble accessing the Noobs forum?

[Hoplosternum]

Me too!

[rdonj]

I was having trouble for a while, but I can get in now.

[Hoplosternum]

Me too! :p

[atul]

At least the vets forums are quite often down at some point during the day (GMT0). Guess it's late night / early morning server update or something.

[Executor]

At least the vets forums are quite often down at some point during the day (GMT0). Guess it's late night / early morning server update or something.

Or the noobs are sabotaging you!!!

[atul]

Well if they had an access to our forums, shouldn't they try to keep it up all the time to better spy on our plans?

[Executor]

Hmm good point, that can only mean one thing... THEY HAVE A SPY!!! (scary horror music)

[rdonj]

Didn't you know Lingchih defected? He was so upset you all let him die he decided to get even by helping the noobs beat you.

[atul]

Oh.

In that case you're doing abysmal job. Gimme some challenge, I'd rather not keep trapezing to the other end of the map!

[DrPraetorious]

A more serious year 2 update.

The noobs have not done badly, which is what it would've taken for us to be winning at this point. This is not to say that the vets have provided perfect play, but even if we had, the noobs have acquitted themselves well enough that they'd be doing okay.

A 2:1 numerical advantage is pretty nice - it's now to be seen whether our greater knowledge of late-game battlefield tactics can turn the tide against their superior numbers. This will, obviously, require some major mistakes on the noobs' part. Fortunately, in the late game, there are plenty of traps and snares into which we can lure them.

For example, Agartha just wasted a whole army of summoned statues killing some Imperial Toilet Paper(TM). Those statues are highly elite troops with an important role that I will explain after I've taken the men of Agartha as eunuchs and the women as concubines.

Atul stands out as a particular marvel of bone-crushing terror. This isn't obvious to the noobs, of course - but he's not been a recipient of much in the way of intra-team aid. Given the number of times I've gone in with an ally and failed to make a serious dent in Atul, it continues to astound me that *I'm* the one with a fearsome reputation. Now that it's too late for the noobs to do anything about it: I win the office pool of Atul kills you all.

[Executor]

Damn DrP. now I wish I was in the game...

[Septimius Severus]

Ah yes, it is about time we had some good smack talk.

Speaking of which:

Ashdod, you've fought well, but now I fear it is time for you to take your rest and go to your grave :rip:. I promise my fellow noobs and I shall do what we can to assist you in this endeavour.

Nice observations Dr. P.

I also couldn't help but observe you've a large force accompanied by your Deva poised to attack sacred Pangaean lands. Well, come on then TC. Come to me.

The dreadful screams of your dying soldiers shall come together in a symphony of suffering that will set my toes to tapping and wet the appetites of the wild and bloodthirsty gods of Pangaea.

And bring your pretender with you, my diviners and priests will delight in consulting your god's entrails to determine true godhood and the fate of your comrades.

[Septimius Severus]

Damn DrP. now I wish I was in the game...
I see some open vet alternate slots.

[Executor]

Nah, I think I'll pass, I'm sort of used to being in the first lineup, and I have trouble organizing my time. One day I'm home all the, the next I'm out, so my turn variate from darn well played to damn pathetic! It wouldn't be fair to the rest of the pplz since it's a team game.
I do like the concept of this scale team games. Was in a 5 on 5 a while back but it ended rather fast to my regret.
Well good luck to you folks, and please keep the thread fresh with interesting battle reports, I'll be lurking from the shadows.

[LumenPlacidum]

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm looking forward to seeing some end-game tactics. First game didn't get into the mid-game. Second game only just got to the mid-game when we realized we were being crushed... but being crushed in ways I feel I already understood. I want to be blown out of my seat wondering how so many terrors could possibly, POSSIBLY have shown up at exactly the wrong moment. I want to be beaten in a way that will make me scratch my head and really think about what happened and how to counter it.

It's not so much a question that it will happen... our side always had to completely cripple the vets before the onset of late game. I want to see the glory of how. That said, the only way to get you to reveal these draconian secrets is to keep up the good fight and force you to go all-out, right? So, we'll keep pushing until you push back hard enough to make us explode in gore against the wall.

[namad]

Team morale, communication, and interest has been dropping ever since like turn 8.

If you wanted to see the late game I think you actually just needed to get in a time machine and use the game settings qm suggested :-p

Instead you went with septimus' plan to use the maximum possible number of players regardless of other constraining details.

[TheDemon]

Now now namad, we've kept up the facade that this game is close long enough and I won't let you ruin it now.

In all honesty late-game tactics are probably harder to apply here than normally, since we're being pressed so hard and don't have time to buildup gem income or high-end mages. And it's a good possibility that you already know all the tactics we're planning to use. I mean, when one of our guys spams spell X, you know that spell X was cast a bunch, and you can figure out how it led to that army's demise. Usually after the fact in dominions doesn't leave you scratching your head, its more of an "oh ****" thing when you see the battle report and when you watch it there's a bit of this :doh: when you start thinking "why didn't I think of that".

[melnorjr]

now, if a vet suddenly attacked me with 3 artifact-bearing tartarians and buffed with Gaia's blessing, army of lead, and blood vengeance, then spammed volcanic eruption and master enslave, I'd be left scratching my head.

only partly at the really strange tactic.

[Lingchih]

Didn't you know Lingchih defected? He was so upset you all let him die he decided to get even by helping the noobs beat you.

Yes, of course I am working for the Noobs now. They just need to give me access to their forums, so I can be much more effective in helping them.

[atul]

Given the number of times I've gone in with an ally and failed to make a serious dent in Atul, it continues to astound me that *I'm* the one with a fearsome reputation.
Well that's just because your posts usually have such a high dose of channeled Samuel L. Jackson in them I'm somewhat convinced your mouse probably has "Bad Motherf***er" engraved in it. Whereas I get repeatedly told I'm one of the nicest people around, no wonder no-one sees me as a threat. Even after I pillage their lands and take their women, that is.

But still, I'm thinking this is probably a bit too big map. I'm estimating a burn-out around the time I've killed Ulm and taken the seas from Abysia, just from a sheer size of my future empire.

[atul]

Awww.

So, now what? Rollback or do we just move on?

[melnorjr]

I vote rollback. a stale for all will harm some players significantly more than others, and seems unfair.

Incidentally, is there anything that is known to cause this to happen? The server didn't say what would have made it happen, and I'm curious if its user error of some kind that does it.

[Septimius Severus]

Apparently some issue with the 2h file from someone, maybe wrong mod enabled/wrong turn file.

Would like to avoid everyone having to redo their turns if possible. Rollback is likely. Hang on a sec.

[Septimius Severus]

Going to try a rollback and a force host, will likely happen again, but let's see.

[TheDemon]

If you rollback then force host no .2h files will have been provided, since llamaserver took them out to deal with the error. If you rollback I you'll need everyone to submit .2h files unless you want everyone to stale again.

No one knows the exact cause of this error, but it's common enough to be annoying and the only fix is to actually make the game re-save your .2h file. As in either "Redo turn from start" or go into your turn, change something, and hit end turn. Just hitting end turn might work, but better be safe.

[Septimius Severus]

If you rollback then force host no .2h files will have been provided, since llamaserver took them out to deal with the error. If you rollback I you'll need everyone to submit .2h files unless you want everyone to stale again.

No one knows the exact cause of this error, but it's common enough to be annoying and the only fix is to actually make the game re-save your .2h file. As in either "Redo turn from start" or go into your turn, change something, and hit end turn. Just hitting end turn might work, but better be safe.

Apparently the server still has the old turn files there when a rollback is performed, though it indicates that everyone needs to resend their turn files.

[Septimius Severus]

Well the scores have updated so something happened.

Now if I don't see my turn being sent to me shortly I'll resend all of them and see what happens.

[TheDemon]

Hm, well good it worked, strange it doesn't fit previous pattern about this bug.

[melnorjr]

If you rollback then force host no .2h files will have been provided, since llamaserver took them out to deal with the error. If you rollback I you'll need everyone to submit .2h files unless you want everyone to stale again.

No one knows the exact cause of this error, but it's common enough to be annoying and the only fix is to actually make the game re-save your .2h file. As in either "Redo turn from start" or go into your turn, change something, and hit end turn. Just hitting end turn might work, but better be safe.

I have gotten that error when working on mods before, when there is an invalid command or incompatible mods. Could it possibly be the result of someone having a mod turned on when they did their turn?

[Septimius Severus]

Ok, should be good now. May want to save a copy of the old .2h/turn file just in case something is quirky.

[Septimius Severus]

I have gotten that error when working on mods before, when there is an invalid command or incompatible mods. Could it possibly be the result of someone having a mod turned on when they did their turn?
Or a mod turned off/like CBM though they might get an error on hitting the end turn button, never tried it though. It is still possible that if it was caused by a single person's .2h file, that person may have an issue with their current turn. We will see.

[atul]

Well I can't look at the turn yet, but since my gem count went up and Caelum's down I'd hazard that Operation Steal Crown Jewels was a succesful one. So can't complain. :)

[iainuki]

Just to check, we want to use the turn 24 files because it went through ok on the second attempt?

[atul]

Well turn 24 is what llamaserver is using. So lets use that.

[Ironhawk]

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm looking forward to seeing some end-game tactics. First game didn't get into the mid-game. Second game only just got to the mid-game when we realized we were being crushed... but being crushed in ways I feel I already understood. I want to be blown out of my seat wondering how so many terrors could possibly, POSSIBLY have shown up at exactly the wrong moment. I want to be beaten in a way that will make me scratch my head and really think about what happened and how to counter it.

This is a silly thing to say, Lumen. If you *really* understood how we mauled you so badly in the 2nd game, then you should have been able to prepare for and defend against it. Effectively, we did exactly what you describe above in the 2nd game. There are no magical cheats that allow you to drop a billion tartarians on your enemies straight from the underworld. Just good planning and good play.

[melnorjr]

I'm not sure that that is necessarily true, Ironhawk. I could be fighting down in my little corner of the world, then get SC's dropped on my head with cloud trapeze or simple flying from somewhere I can't see, and them just smash my entire nation. Marignon basically did this to me this game, though not with enough vigor to kill me, just mess me up a bit, because I had no available counters.
I was busy getting counters ready for other things that I was fighting at the time, and his SC dropped on my head. This doesn't mean that I don't understand the tactic - I knew he would eventually be putting out angel SCs, but I was too busy fighting other things to be able to counter that too. What lumen wants is to be beaten by things he doesn't already understand. Being a noob, I hadn't encountered the skinshifter tactic atul is using. By itself it's not going to beat me, but it was something new. Other than that, I havn't fought (or heard of being used) anything I don't already understand and know.

[Raiel]

Part of the problem here is that there is no good definition of Noob or Vet; I don't think there can be in a game like this.

For my part, I am very comfortable with game mechanics and strategy/tactics right up to late game, where SP just can't prepare you for the SC/tactics/things I've read about in this forum. I probably fare better than most noobs in early/mid-game because I've never really used gems in battles, SC, or thugs in my SP victories against all-impossible AIs. But I still consider myself a noob because I just haven't ever felt the sting of defeat or thrill of victory from MP play.

I will now admit that I considered throwing in the towel out of frustration when Lingchih obliterated my first army. I was so demoralized by what I felt was just bad luck but was really a combination of good luck and excellent strategy on Lingchih's part. Then Baalz posted his shiny new pledge thread and I just had to keep going! :D (Not really, I had decided before that, but it was so close.)

So far I've learned two incredibly significant lessons among many smaller... the first should be eveident from the above paragraph and the fact that I did finally (barely) put the immovable slab in front of Ermor's tomb. The second is one that every player that faces me from now on will learn the hard way. :evil: I'm not telling.

The point is this: if you read these forums avidly, a noob may not see anything that is completely new to him/her, but I still expect to see applications of force that are new to me and the rest of the noob team.

[Ironhawk]

Other than that, I havn't fought (or heard of being used) anything I don't already understand and know.

But you see, this was my point. There is nothing available to the vets that the noobs havent seen or heard of. What elevates one player from another is just good planning and good play. You might be surprised by a particular trick now and then but if thats what you are expecting to get out of these games I think you have the wrong idea.

[melnorjr]

Other than that, I havn't fought (or heard of being used) anything I don't already understand and know.

But you see, this was my point. There is nothing available to the vets that the noobs havent seen or heard of. What elevates one player from another is just good planning and good play. You might be surprised by a particular trick now and then but if thats what you are expecting to get out of these games I think you have the wrong idea.

Thats possibly true. I might well. Admittedly seeing things in application can be a big factor in itself, but personally, I have barely touched on reading forum threads. I've read one or two guides, no battle reports, probably a grand total of 6 or 7 threads, and this is my first MP game, nor have I played really extensively in SP. I'm pretty green, but I have a pretty solid grasp of the concepts and the mechanics - particularly the mechanics, since I've played with modding and attempting to balance mods enough that I have had to.

I'm hoping to encounter things I hadn't considered, to learn more options for my own play. I'm a strange type. Ever profiled yourself on your gamer-type? there's social gamers, achievers(many in this game are probably here), killers, etc.

I'm an explorer. To me the fun in a game is doing something I haven't done yet. Going somewhere I haven't been. I deliberately play games without looking at guides, or (in the case of dungeons in WoW or some such) fight bosses and things without already knowing how to beat them, because the most fun part is figuring it out. The fun for me is not in the having won, its in the winning. When I have learned the be all end all I-win-button in a game, I use it once, and quit playing.

From what I hear and from what I've seen however, there is no such button here.

From what I've seen however, and no negativity intended, is that what seems to define a vet is not ingenuity, or cleverness, but experience. That's a bit of a tautology of course, but what I mean to say is that among the things that define a vet are simply knowing the probably course of action of a person in a given situation, knowing tricky little mechanics that noobs don't know yet, and simply knowing how troops tend to match up - noobs tend to go overkill when attacking something, or underestimate and not fight hard enough. The vet has seen enough battles to know the right amount of force needed to do each action.

And again, no insult intended, but I haven't run into somebody beating me with what appears to be a superior cleverness or ingenuity, but generally with experience, luck, or situational advantage.

[atul]

You forget hard work.

Usually the reason I fail at late game is that I don't have the stomach for microing everything. Best late game guys are the ones with early game just strong enough, who are nice enough not to get ganged mid-game and who have invested enough time to be a late-game power.

Mind you, there have been quite creative builds even in this game, but some things fail and succeed depending on their environment.

And while you are spot on about experience and situational advantage, people usually don't consistently " just get lucky". ;)

[melnorjr]

You forget hard work.

Usually the reason I fail at late game is that I don't have the stomach for microing everything. Best late game guys are the ones with early game just strong enough, who are nice enough not to get ganged mid-game and who have invested enough time to be a late-game power.

Mind you, there have been quite creative builds even in this game, but some things fail and succeed depending on their environment.

And while you are spot on about experience and situational advantage, people usually don't consistently " just get lucky". ;)

oh, of course you don't get lucky consistantly, but I've run into enough hiccups of luck that it seems a big enough factor in these games at times - Like that marignon mage that won three magic duels with higher skilled mages and wasted three of my cap only mages - just to get killed by a random slinger stone the turn after the marignon army routed. Luck usually won't win a game, and it isn't a common occurrence, but I've lost to it before.

And yes, I'd considered hard work, but I wasn't sure how to phrase it to be clear, so I left it out. Its easy enough to see how a person could get lazy toward the end of long games - it's always a challenge to avoid doing this in big SP games. I'm playing one testing my current eight mod nations against each other on a 600 province map.
The only reason I chose to be that masochistic is because I hadn't done it before. It hasn't managed to annoy me quite sufficiently yet though. I'm enjoying an SC I'm using with a nice chassis and ember, the aegis, aseftiks armor, Amon Hotep, the boots of calius, the chalice, the ark, and kurgi's gift. I designed my pretender specifically to be able to forge ridiculous things like that for that game just to amuse myself. I imagine I'll find out quickly just how good that SC is when a doom horror comes to take back kurgi's gift.

[Lingchih]

Heh, Invite the Doom Horrors at your own request. They are terrible.

[melnorjr]

Heh, Invite the Doom Horrors at your own request. They are terrible.

Terrible-weak? or Terrible-own-your-face?

[namad]

terrible like i don't think it's possible to design a unit which can survive through being attacked by a doom horror every turn


although if you have astral magic just script returning on turn1 and you'll be fine

[Ironhawk]

And again, no insult intended, but I haven't run into somebody beating me with what appears to be a superior cleverness or ingenuity, but generally with experience, luck, or situational advantage.

I'm not insulted, however you should reassess the way you think about "experience". You say it here like any player who plays dominions long enough will just become an exceptional player given enough games and enough time. This is absolutely not true. I've played dominions 2/3 for like... 4 years now and I've watched many players start as noobs only to plateau at about average or decent skills levels. Only occassionally does someone rise above the pack.

Again, I think you are looking in the wrong place for your perception of ability. So much of what goes into a well played nation happens behind the scenes. Nation design, research plans, strategic positioning, defensive planning, effective unit assessments, etc. None of this displays itself in some flashy battle or crazy SC kit. The other player just seems to have more gems, have just the right spell at the right moment, have just the right troop makeup and numbers exactly when and where he needs them.

And lastly - the proof is really in the pudding. If you are convinced that its just a matter of knowing strategies and playing a couple of games then you should step up play yourself against 2:1 odds. See how long you actually can hold up or win under the same conditions. Perhaps then you'll have a better sense of what it takes. :)

[melnorjr]

And again, no insult intended, but I haven't run into somebody beating me with what appears to be a superior cleverness or ingenuity, but generally with experience, luck, or situational advantage.

I'm not insulted, however you should reassess the way you think about "experience". You say it here like any player who plays dominions long enough will just become an exceptional player given enough games and enough time. This is absolutely not true. I've played dominions 2/3 for like... 4 years now and I've watched many players start as noobs only to plateau at about average or decent skills levels. Only occassionally does someone rise above the pack.
oh, I understand this. I didn't mean to say that becoming very good is ONLY a matter of experience. Many players won't reach the level of planning and forethought. My point was that experience is the biggest visible difference, and that it is a very large part of what makes a vet good - the experience allows you to know what you need, the forethought and planning let you do it.


Again, I think you are looking in the wrong place for your perception of ability. So much of what goes into a well played nation happens behind the scenes. Nation design, research plans, strategic positioning, defensive planning, effective unit assessments, etc. None of this displays itself in some flashy battle or crazy SC kit. The other player just seems to have more gems, have just the right spell at the right moment, have just the right troop makeup and numbers exactly when and where he needs them.

And lastly - the proof is really in the pudding. If you are convinced that its just a matter of knowing strategies and playing a couple of games then you should step up play yourself against 2:1 odds. See how long you actually can hold up or win under the same conditions. Perhaps then you'll have a better sense of what it takes. :)

hey now, that's a bit unfair. I never said I was a vet, in fact, I said quite clearly that I'm a noob and very green. It obviously takes more than a few games to become that experienced/good. I'm not going to get into a "I'm as good as a vet" line of baloney because I'm well aware that's baloney.

That being said, I'm not intimidated by vets, and if I picked my opponents, I'm reasonably sure I could beat two players. There's obviously skill differences among noobs. Facing the team that beat Lingchih in this game for example(twobits and Raiel), I'm quite certain I would be soundly trounced.

[Septimius Severus]

Here's a newbie question for the vets, why do some games ban Arcane Nexus, Utterdark, fever fetishes, bloodstones, etc?

Well rdonj, my goal for this game was to reach at least the same popularity (# of views, posts) as Artifacts (21,000) views, and I dare say I think we are in the running (along with Legends of Faerun).

Looks like combined, the series may have reached/exceeded the stats of either the first Mega Age game Perpetuality (apparently some 37,000 views) or possibly Kingmaker. Wow. Brings a tear to my eye.

[atul]

Arcane Nexus just is too good with high number of players as it scales, Utterdark just makes game not fun for any mortal race, gem generating items just make game not fun for anyone not hoarding them. Simple as that, why not ban them.

[rdonj]

This is certainly an absurdly long thread.

To elaborate on what atul said, Arcane Nexus is so powerful that, if you have enough players in the game, even if it is dispelled the turn it goes up you can easily make a profit off of it and cast it again. Basically it scales in power with number and strength of opposing players. It's one of the closest things the game has to an "I win" button.

Utterdark makes it almost impossible for most nations to effectively fight. While it's not only are most units not able to hit the broad side of a barn, you also probably can't recruit anything due to the massive income loss.

Gem generators, even aside from being unfun, are micromanagement hell. You have to have hundreds of commanders running around with gem gen items on them, and in the case of fever fetishes they'll eventually die. So you need to pass the fetishes off before that happens. Which means you need more than a constant rate of commander growth, eventually it will balloon preposterously. Gem generators are also too much of a strategy in and of themselves. If you just make enough more of them than anyone else, eventually your gem income will be so high that no one can affect you and your territories are more or less meaningless. Ask micah :)

[TheDemon]

Gem generators, even aside from being unfun, are micromanagement hell. You have to have hundreds of commanders running around with gem gen items on them, and in the case of fever fetishes they'll eventually die. So you need to pass the fetishes off before that happens. Which means you need more than a constant rate of commander growth, eventually it will balloon preposterously. Gem generators are also too much of a strategy in and of themselves. If you just make enough more of them than anyone else, eventually your gem income will be so high that no one can affect you and your territories are more or less meaningless. Ask micah :)

The last part of that is the reason gem gens are banned. You build more and more and more and eventually your territory becomes irrelavent, since the lion's share of your gem income comes from gem gens. And then you use them to empower up a wish caster and wish for gems every turn and it gets totally ridiculous. And then you realize that every other player who also made it to turn 90 has done the same thing and it's near impossible to kill them because they've stacked 30 domes with the gems they've generated (ok, so that was patched out, mostly) and everyone quits since the tenacity needed to kill someone with an invisible gem income like that is something few players have.

And that's the main reason gem gens are unfun, nevermind the micromanagement (you click a pool all button, then readjust anything you needed to hold pearls. big micro there...).

[TheDemon]

I'm hoping to encounter things I hadn't considered, to learn more options for my own play. I'm a strange type. Ever profiled yourself on your gamer-type? there's social gamers, achievers(many in this game are probably here), killers, etc.

I'm an explorer. To me the fun in a game is doing something I haven't done yet. Going somewhere I haven't been. I deliberately play games without looking at guides, or (in the case of dungeons in WoW or some such) fight bosses and things without already knowing how to beat them, because the most fun part is figuring it out. The fun for me is not in the having won, its in the winning. When I have learned the be all end all I-win-button in a game, I use it once, and quit playing.

From what I hear and from what I've seen however, there is no such button here.

From what I've seen however, and no negativity intended, is that what seems to define a vet is not ingenuity, or cleverness, but experience. That's a bit of a tautology of course, but what I mean to say is that among the things that define a vet are simply knowing the probably course of action of a person in a given situation, knowing tricky little mechanics that noobs don't know yet, and simply knowing how troops tend to match up - noobs tend to go overkill when attacking something, or underestimate and not fight hard enough. The vet has seen enough battles to know the right amount of force needed to do each action.

And again, no insult intended, but I haven't run into somebody beating me with what appears to be a superior cleverness or ingenuity, but generally with experience, luck, or situational advantage.

I think part of the issue is the things you're looking for us to do are just things that we'll do naturally, when the situation arises. I mean, how am I supposed to know what clever tactics you don't know?

No negativity intended here, but how about if/when we pull something you haven't seen before, you let us know what it was, and then I know I'm doing my job right.

[rdonj]

Two or more members of the noob team seem to be about to be absent at the same time, and I'm not sure we'll be able to find subs for everyone. I think it may be best to institute a delay until everyone returns. We'll cross that bridge when we get there, but here's the heads up.

Also, as it is now turn 25, here is the earnings report (turns 4-25):

Noob Gold Total - 514,775
Noob Gem Total - 3,152
Vet Gold Total - 183,816
Vet Gem Total - 1,495

Gold advantage: 2.8x
Gem advantage: 2.1x

[atul]

TwoBits: Hi, missed me? :)

And Caelum, bad time to go awol. :/

Damn those income scores, I seriously need to get my own dominion in my own lands...

[rdonj]

Yeah, the noobs per turn income is actually just under 5x gold and 3x gems of the vet team right now.

[melnorjr]

TwoBits: Hi, missed me? :)


I certainly did. I mean, I start fighting you, build an army to try and counter yours, and you run away and leave Marignon's angel to mess with me! Now I've got an army raiding your lands and he can't even find a single opponent!


No negativity intended here, but how about if/when we pull something you haven't seen before, you let us know what it was, and then I know I'm doing my job right.
Gladly. I do love the coordination you guys are using. 5 thugs/SCs at once?

I have to admit though in fairness, that my comment about nobody beating me with superior cleverness is somewhat irrelevant, as this being my first game, nobody has beaten me yet. Woohoo! I'm undefeated!

[atul]

I certainly did. I mean, I start fighting you, build an army to try and counter yours, and you run away and leave Marignon's angel to mess with me!

The way I remember it that I was happily minding my very own business in the west, when your big army rudely tried to camp on my capital. Just came out of nowhere. Now, I naturally objected to that and sent your army away at the last possible moment (had to research even rudimentary elephant counters, boy I was in hurry), might've even given a chase at that point.

Anyway, since you weren't bothering me anymore I deemed it suitable to double back and make a mess out of Jotunheim. No running, and apparently you were building your army to counter mine for ten or so turns afterwards.


Now I've got an army raiding your lands and he can't even find a single opponent!

That aint raiding (since it's the very border of my lands, and that aint raiding army (since it's costing you more in the way of upkeep than what you're getting out of the land). But, if you want to fight me you better come to my capital. You've probably noticed, I'm busy elsewhere bashing your friends. :)

[TwoBits]

TwoBits: Hi, missed me? :)

Aw, what, I'm not good enough any more for the Father of Winters? Or is he still cooling his heels in the Abyss? ;)

Yeah, so you can raid me with impunity, for now, and kill a bunch of Hoburgs (Frodo will pay you back, Sauron! :mad: ) - don't see how that's really helping your good buddy Ashdod though.

Score so far: Noobs 1 (still 12 to go), Vets 0 (only 5 left, and one seems quite on the bubble!). Eriu ain't looking so good either - Baalz must be playing his cards extremely close to the vest... :shock:

[Septimius Severus]

Two or more members of the noob team seem to be about to be absent at the same time, and I'm not sure we'll be able to find subs for everyone. I think it may be best to institute a delay until everyone returns. We'll cross that bridge when we get there, but here's the heads up.
Hopefully, such a lengthy delay will not be necessary.

Most interesting about these often banned spells and gem generating items. I know some games ban nations as well, sometimes Ashdod I believe. I generally don't subscribe to such things (perhaps in my naivete, as I often trust too much in the developers/designers judgement/patches). Had Ashdod been banned, it would make for a less interesting/diverse game and we wouldn't be able to learn the effective counters we have learned. Ashdod has provided us with great sport.

Though I agree I don't like too much micromanagement, though I do like a certain amount. Tell me vets, can these spells be dispelled like other globals? Would removing these gem gens entirely have a specific negative impact on certain nations?

[TheDemon]

Arcane Nexus is pretty much impossible to dispel and keep dispelled, since in games of a certain size it generates far more gems in one turn than it costs. Utterdark certainly can be dispelled, but were I a player who had high level astral under Utterdark, I'd simply let the other players suffer through it and cast Solar Brilliance every battle. Course that's not fully practical, but personally I don't think Utterdark is as much of a win button as it's made out to be.

There are a few nations that would suffer under the removal of gem gens. In my opinion, Oceania and Kailasa really suffer from loss of Clams, since not only are the nations tailored for forging them but they also rely on extremely expensive astral summons that are really hard to afford otherwise (wish and the Kailasa uniques). Most ages of Abysia suffer from loss of Blood Stones, as does most ages of Argatha. Marveri relies a bit on both Clams and Blood Stones. Machaka and Yomi both can really spam Fever Fetishes, although it's more rare since a large fetish farm requires an insane ammout of extra micro.

[TheDemon]

Arcane Nexus is pretty much impossible to dispel and keep dispelled, since in games of a certain size it generates far more gems in one turn than it costs. Utterdark certainly can be dispelled, but were I a player who had high level astral under Utterdark, I'd simply let the other players suffer through it and cast Solar Brilliance every battle. Course that's not fully practical, but personally I don't think Utterdark is as much of a win button as it's made out to be.

There are a few nations that would suffer under the removal of gem gens. In my opinion, Oceania and Kailasa really suffer from loss of Clams, since not only are the nations tailored for forging them but they also rely on extremely expensive astral summons that are really hard to afford otherwise (wish and the Kailasa uniques). Most ages of Abysia suffer from loss of Blood Stones, as does most ages of Argatha. Marveri relies a bit on both Clams and Blood Stones. Machaka and Yomi both can really spam Fever Fetishes, although it's more rare since a large fetish farm requires an insane ammout of extra micro.

[melnorjr]

I certainly did. I mean, I start fighting you, build an army to try and counter yours, and you run away and leave Marignon's angel to mess with me!

The way I remember it that I was happily minding my very own business in the west, when your big army rudely tried to camp on my capital. Just came out of nowhere. Now, I naturally objected to that and sent your army away at the last possible moment (had to research even rudimentary elephant counters, boy I was in hurry), might've even given a chase at that point.
I'm glad to know I had you sweating a bit there. You seemed to deal with it handily enough.


Anyway, since you weren't bothering me anymore I deemed it suitable to double back and make a mess out of Jotunheim. No running, and apparently you were building your army to counter mine for ten or so turns afterwards.
I didn't quite build for ten turns. From where I was sitting I saw you sitting on my border sending little probing one commander attacks for three turns after Caelum arrowed your commander for me, while marignon attacked me from the north, then you attacked and took a prov or two, and when my army killed marignon's, both of you left off with your armies and marignon brought in his angel. I just assumed that you heard a report on my battle plan from marignon and decided not to tangle with it, and that the angel would be a more prudent means of dealing with me.
It was rather designed for killing skinshifters, though it performed well enough on marignon's crossbowman. I had another fun surprise in there for you and marignon, but one of the other noobs outbid me on my merc.



Now I've got an army raiding your lands and he can't even find a single opponent!

That aint raiding (since it's the very border of my lands, and that aint raiding army (since it's costing you more in the way of upkeep than what you're getting out of the land).
well, apparently the definition of raiding I meant was different from the accepted Dom3 one. Will remember that. I meant it in the 'running about and taking your land' sense.


But, if you want to fight me you better come to my capital. You've probably noticed, I'm busy elsewhere bashing your friends. :)

Yeah...if only I didn't have five thugs/SCs on my face, I'd be working on that.

as a random question, do those angels qualify as SCs?

[Stretch]

Arcane Nexus is pretty much impossible to dispel and keep dispelled, since in games of a certain size it generates far more gems in one turn than it costs.

Instead of dispelling, could you just recast Arcane Nexus with a higher boost than the original cast? Then it'd see-saw back and forth between you and the other guy and you'd potentially spend a lot of your extra income stealing the nexus back and forth. I haven't used globals much so I could be missing something.

[melnorjr]

Arcane Nexus is pretty much impossible to dispel and keep dispelled, since in games of a certain size it generates far more gems in one turn than it costs.

Instead of dispelling, could you just recast Arcane Nexus with a higher boost than the original cast? Then it'd see-saw back and forth between you and the other guy and you'd potentially spend a lot of your extra income stealing the nexus back and forth. I haven't used globals much so I could be missing something.

That would only work if two people became capable of casting Arcane Nexus at within one turn of each other - unlikely.

[Stretch]

I was assuming several players would coordinate the effort to make sure that the one player didn't run away with the game. Perhaps that's expecting too much from diplomacy, but I'm thinking of it as a game where people are actively opposing the strongest player. And presumably you wouldn't pool gems to give the nexus to the 2nd strongest player, just a player who the first guy couldn't destroy easily, perhaps with an agreement on how the profits should be doled out assuming it wasn't dispelled.

Kind of a pain to work out diplomatically, but better than having someone with a ridiculous gem income just destroy everyone.

[Raiel]

I'm on the road and won't be able to submit a turn before Monday morning; please delay the hosting of Turn 26 till 19:00 GMT on the 10th (I've just submitted turn 25).

[rdonj]

Done, though I seem to have overshot a few hours.

[Raiel]

Done, though I seem to have overshot a few hours.

Thanks, but I was actually talking about NEXT turn... I know it's early to ask for that and it makes for a bit of an admin headache, but I'm going to be camping this weekend. My cell phone might give me access to forums, but I can't be sure till I get there.

[TheDemon]

Yeah...if only I didn't have five thugs/SCs on my face, I'd be working on that.

as a random question, do those angels qualify as SCs?

I would say the angels are borderline between thugs and SCs. Certainly, I am using them as SCs right now, since they're taking on armies on their own, but they have their limits and counters and they're not geared especially well.

[Septimius Severus]

Done, though I seem to have overshot a few hours.

Thanks, but I was actually talking about NEXT turn... I know it's early to ask for that and it makes for a bit of an admin headache, but I'm going to be camping this weekend. My cell phone might give me access to forums, but I can't be sure till I get there.

Corrected, current turn will host as normally scheduled (Sat Aug 8, 07:55 GMT), let's get those turns in.

[Lingchih]

You must miss your turn enforcer, Sept. ;)

[Septimius Severus]

You must miss your turn enforcer, Sept. ;)

Ah yes, I suppose I do, though you may still act as such. From beyond the grave that is. :D

[Septimius Severus]

I'm on the road and won't be able to submit a turn before Monday morning; please delay the hosting of Turn 26 till 19:00 GMT on the 10th (I've just submitted turn 25).
15 hour delay added to turn 26 ala Raiel.

[Ironhawk]

On the topic of Utterdark, I think it's not so much an "I win" button as it is just overpowered. Like if it just crippled combat everywhere or just crippled income everywhere it would probably be ok. But both in a single spell?? It's too much

[Pelthin]

But do you think utterdark is a spell designed for some of the weaker nations?

I think Yomi, and Argatha come to mind as nations that benefit from this spell, as they have troops with darkvision.

Or is it still cheesy anyway you look at it?

[TheDemon]

While it's true nations with DV benefit, nations that can summon Demons and Undead benefit the most, since they don't have to rely on gold income. AND those nations are already very powerful, since demons and undead are already very powerful. Yomi and Argatha and other nations with troops with Darkvision can benefit from casting Darkness in the battles, but thye need gold to recruit troops, which utterdark takes away.

[TwoBits]

About 3.5 hours to go, still waiting for Marignon and Ulm.

[Joelz]

Yeah, sorry about that. I could have sworn I sent my turn earlier. Well, mind plays tricks on me :o

[TwoBits]

Yeah, sorry about that. I could have sworn I sent my turn earlier. Well, mind plays tricks on me :o

No worries :) That's why I guess reminder posts like this are useful, if still somewhat cluttery (is that a word? not according to Mr. Spell Checker, it seems :cold: ).

So now we just need to hope Marignon reads this in the next two hours...

[melnorjr]

You would not believe how hard it was to get that gear, or how long it took. In the hopes that I not be seen as a complete and total nooblet, I didn't ask for that gear a turn or two ago, I asked for it the very first turn I checked my turn and saw that angel take out my army. Some of it I asked for before that.

I must admit the miscaculation on my part. Should have tried to take prov 53, but that result didn't occur to me. I wasn't thinking of your relatively low morale.

[TheDemon]

You would not believe how hard it was to get that gear, or how long it took. In the hopes that I not be seen as a complete and total nooblet, I didn't ask for that gear a turn or two ago, I asked for it the very first turn I checked my turn and saw that angel take out my army. Some of it I asked for before that.

I must admit the miscaculation on my part. Should have tried to take prov 53, but that result didn't occur to me. I wasn't thinking of your relatively low morale.

The morale didn't have anything to do with it, I routed on 75% hp loss thanks to my PD and retreating mage. You didn't have any fear effects anyhow. And had you tried to take the other province, you would have had to deal with my other, better harbinger. Who died this turn to a lucky arrow prevent his fire resist buff. Sometimes the RNG is not kind...

[atul]

The bad thing about having a designated forger(s) is that they have their own will, too.

The bad thing about being a designated forger is that you usually have better things to do than to forge stuff for those complaining people.

Never a good thing. But thanks for those booster items anyway Caelum, sorry to see your pretender go.

[namad]

what items? feel free to elaborate. I am sure we are all curious.

[namad]

Can anyone explain this to me? I had a commander move east from ashdod to white peaks, while at the same time 200troops and a dozen commanders moved west along the same path.
both movements were hostile territory movements.

The only possibilities I was aware of were that these two forces meet in battle at ashdod, or meet in battle at white peaks...

Yet somehow instead my scout ended up in white peaks fighting and the enemy army ended up in ashdod fighting... without having met along the way?


I wasn't this was aware except possibly in the case of all flying armies or something?

Anyone have any idea what happened? I mean the gameplay ramifications are totally irrelevant and don't matter, I'm just curious about a mechanic I thought I understood that apparently I don't understand...

I try to pride myself on understanding all the gameplay mechanics as well as anyone else :(


Actually this could possibly be explained if c'tis had teleported onto ashdod on this turn thus making the movement friendly and occurring before hostile movements...

hrmm but in that case I think my scout should've stayed inside the fort and done nothing having had his avenue of movement aborted? I couldn't afford any pd because I have no income so I didn't actually have anyone in position to witness a teleport... could c'tis please state weather they teleported onto ashdod or not? I already know the army has astral mages there anyways so I would gain no additional information (still having no idea what possible changes were made to the army since the last time I saw it)... this would help me analyze the mechanic better... (no units were left on patrol due to my certainty about the trigger of battles in the manner I've already described turned out to be false)

[atul]

Two armies don't necessarily meet if they move past each other.

[Calahan]

....and it happens a lot more often than you might think, at least in my experience. I'd say maybe 5% of the time.

[Ironhawk]

Heard of it happening but never seen it myself. 5% sounds really dubious.

[rdonj]

If you mean armies moving at each other, and passing on to the other's original position without fighting, it happens plenty. It happens even more in SP since your armies are much smaller than the AIs. If that's not what you're talking about than I am not sure what you mean :P

[Calahan]

If you mean armies moving at each other, and passing on to the other's original position without fighting, it happens plenty.
Yes, this is what my post refered to. Although obviously I can't speak for namad's post, so it may not be on this exact mechanic.

[Raiel]

Sorry, namad, but answering that question at this time would give the vets more information about my research priorities than I want them to have.