MP Noobs & Vets: Rise of the AI Menace. EA, BI. Game Over. Team ACGHHS wins! [Archive] - Page 3?login=1

Septimius Severus

November 2nd, 2009, 02:59 PM

My apologies for the delay on the startlocations - I just pmed them to septimius.

I would like to note however, that there might be some issues with them, as one team has two instances of two of their capitols with only one intervening province, and one player has a start with 4 connecting provinces, one of them a swamp, and another player has 7 connecting provinces.(I was given what provinces to place people in, and used a random number generator to determine which team was where, so if your starting province seems unbalanced in some way, it wasn't me. :p )

This is from a post on page 35. Septimius then said that start positions had been known for over a month and no one had complained. We all definitely did have time to bring it up, but none of us did so it was really just a matter of chance who would end up in the horrible, horrible position you poor folks did. We really should have attempted to address the issue... it is going to be a bit of a pain for your team to deal with, especially if any of you with adjacent provinces need lots of resources for your capitol. My sympathies to you and your team.

Yes, no one said much of anything for the longest time, I did those start locations (and provided 2 options as well) quick and dirty way back when, doing the best I could but trying to keep things so that the comp would be in the center and the teams arranged as closely to toward the cardinal directions as I could. Lets work with what we've got people. Next time, please review all potential start locations, and speak up promptly if you don't like them. Algae was the only one who said anything early on, and I revised them when he did. DO NOT wait a month or longer. DO NOT wait till the game is started.

In the east, the provinces are larger, again random map stuff. I wouldn't say it is a horrible, horrible position, rdonj. In the two cases where this may be an issue, the shared neighboring province can be awarded to the player with the fewest neighbors including the province in question. For instance, if one player has four neighbors and the other has 5 neighbors (including the one in question), the territory should go to the player with only 4 neighbors. I'm sure everyone will be fine. Other than the relative experience level of the Blessed's no sympathies are needed.

Septimius Severus

November 2nd, 2009, 03:01 PM

Ok guys, I don't have a turn and because I use Outlook express I also don't have a spam file (so it can't be in there).

I haven't heard from chris and I was wondering if the rest of our team has received the first turn since they where all e-mailed to a common address.

I am a little spooky about the technical knowledge needed to get this game going as I have said I am somewhat computer challenged.

I need to know whats going on with my team soon or I will have to withdraw.

Grudge, I am going to send you your turn right now. I am sure chris will get things organized and so forth soon. A common e-mail account is good, especially if everyone can access the account or some sort of automatic forwarding is set up on the account.
Don't have a heart attack Grudge, I am counting on you to keep everyone grounded and out of the techno babble realm.

12 turns in so far according to Gandalf. :up:

chrispedersen

November 2nd, 2009, 03:52 PM

Septimius Severus

November 2nd, 2009, 04:09 PM

Apologies to SS and to Grudge.

I have just returned from out of town, and from an auto accident.
Lots of damage, no injury.

I'd like to appeal to my team members (including alternates) to please be up to date on their starting positions. And to please post any observations.

I will post comments, solicit observations, and hopefully we'll have marching orders tomorrow (Tues.)..

That ok SS?

Fine with me, this first turn won't host till all turns are in, since there were some issues that needed to be resolved. Please get them in ASAP though. I am starved for action! It is time for some killin' and some dyin'. :D

Chris, I would recommend, if you haven't already, that a dedicated e-mail account with passwords be provided to the ACGHHS team members so they can log on and grab their turns from there or some sort of automatic forwarding be used. But that is your call as team Captain. You seem to be doing a fine job of things anyhow.

After this first turn is history, we will moving toward following our normal hosting schedule.

I will be posting links to the following game information files once the turn hosts on the opening thread to make everything nice and convenient for everyone (assuming they will be updated regularly/and or automatically). A single status page would be nice, but this will serve just fine for our purposes for now. Not llamaserver, but better than nothing. Kuddos to Gandalf for whatever he can do.

www.dom3minions.com/~nav/stats.txt (apparently staling data)
www.dom3minions.com/~nav/scores.html (score graphs)
www.dom3minions.com/~nav/bin/nav_chk.cgi (turns received)

GrudgeBringer

November 2nd, 2009, 08:06 PM

OK turns here (thanks chris, I KNEW something was wrong when I didn't hear from you. Glad you and your family are OK!!)

Now I have the turn but since we are not using llamaserver I have a couple of questions and I will get it in tonight.

Do I need to put a name on the subject line and if so what is it?

Will the turn Chris sent me be ok or is there a chance all the dm files (or whatever) need to be changed?

I just want to get my turn in and not hold anybody up.

Any help on the subject line would be useful and not have me reading the last 20 pages of the forum.

Thanks:up:

Gandalf Parker

November 2nd, 2009, 08:12 PM

In this case the game has its own email address so there is no need at this time for a subject. All mail going there is for this game. But it wont hurt either so if you want to get in the habit of putting the game name like for LLama then its fine.

The game was created with the
better_independents_v2-1_g.dm
mod so its going to expect that to be in the mod directory on your machine. You dont have to have it "on", just present.

pyg

November 2nd, 2009, 09:09 PM

I was going to do something like LLamas but got distracted by real world.
Here is a fast dirty one for now.
http://www.dom3minions.com/~nav/bin/nav_chk.cgi

Yes, this was the essential Llamaserver.net feature I was missing. I really need to know if I've submitted my turn. A confirmation email or a status page does the trick. 14/16, looks like everyone but the AIs. New .trn soon?

Also, like Llamaserver, if I send multiple .2h files to nav@dom3minions, will the one dated last be automatically used? I just want to know that I can submit a turn and later change my mind if I have too.

GrudgeBringer

November 2nd, 2009, 10:10 PM

I put the game in my 'Saved Games folder along with my other games.

I made a folder called VVTeam as i was told it didn't matter about a subject line and inserted the TRN file in it....Doesn't show in the Current game file...

suggestions?

Frozen Lama

November 2nd, 2009, 10:14 PM

i assume you have no spaces or anything in your game name?

GrudgeBringer

November 2nd, 2009, 10:44 PM

I was told the game name didn't matter as we where not playing on llamaserver...

OK, What exactly is our game name...I know it has changed a couple of times.

I will plug that in and give it a go.:up:

Gandalf Parker

November 2nd, 2009, 11:04 PM

[QUOTE=Gandalf Parker;716803]
Yes, this was the essential Llamaserver.net feature I was missing. I really need to know if I've submitted my turn. A confirmation email or a status page does the trick. 14/16, looks like everyone but the AIs. New .trn soon?

Also, like Llamaserver, if I send multiple .2h files to nav@dom3minions, will the one dated last be automatically used? I just want to know that I can submit a turn and later change my mind if I have too.

I mailed out 16 trn files, Im guessing we are waiting for 16 .2h files coming back. 4 teams of 4 players each.

And yes that page does an exact read of the game directory. As soon as a file is received it appears there. And a new file sent will overwrite the old one AND display the new time stamp for it. I will try to pretty it up later.

pyg

November 2nd, 2009, 11:24 PM

Yes, this was the essential Llamaserver.net feature I was missing. I really need to know if I've submitted my turn. A confirmation email or a status page does the trick. 14/16, looks like everyone but the AIs. New .trn soon?

Also, like Llamaserver, if I send multiple .2h files to nav@dom3minions, will the one dated last be automatically used? I just want to know that I can submit a turn and later change my mind if I have too.

I mailed out 16 trn files, Im guessing we are waiting for 16 .2h files coming back. 4 teams of 4 players each.

And yes that page does an exact read of the game directory. As soon as a file is received it appears there. And a new file sent will overwrite the old one AND display the new time stamp for it. I will try to pretty it up later.

Drunken math. It's all Linchih's fault!

Who need pretty when I have something to remember when I forget.

chrispedersen

November 2nd, 2009, 11:46 PM

www.dom3minions.com/~nav/stats.txt (apparently staling data)
www.dom3minions.com/~nav/scores.html (score graphs)
www.dom3minions.com/~nav/bin/nav_chk.cgi (turns received)

How about updating first post?

Septimius Severus

November 3rd, 2009, 02:18 AM

Will do so very shortly. Was going to wait till the current turn hosts, but I may do so before then.

Get your turns in everyone ASAP!

I am drafting Lingchih once again into the position of Turn Enforcer (if he accepts). I hereby authorize Ling to monitor the turns received link, and to seek out those who haven't submitted their turns and pester them into submission. ;)

Grudge, if the folder you create to put your turn in (this goes for any game) has spaces or certain special characters in it, it will not show up in the games list.

Gandalf Parker

November 3rd, 2009, 12:05 PM

Septimius Severus

November 3rd, 2009, 12:38 PM

I will try to make the info page more helpful. This will be a template once I get it done so we will have it available already for the other games.

*sigh*
pull date from ftherland file, add 32 hours
display countdown
math of epoch time sucks

pull list of .2h files
compare to .trn files to make list of .2h that are later than their .trn
display .2h that are later than turn and list missing .2h as still need to do turn

rewrite .procmailrc to not only unpack all .2h into the game dir but also to check each time if thats the last one so we can automate hosting, then add "or 32 hours"

Basic info is fine, whatever you do extra is gravy. But yes, we are learning alot this first game, players in the next game will have the advantage of all (or most) of these issues having been worked out. It will also increase the functionality of your server for PBEM games, and perhaps make it a viable alternate for such games. Not to mention the added bonus of direct connect functionality.

A single comprehensive status link/page perhaps with links to other pages would give us a front end similar to Llama's front end. In time you may be able to incorporate game altering functions and all of that as well. The possibilities are endless.

Septimius Severus

November 3rd, 2009, 12:59 PM

The following team alternates (as of the start of the game) will receive 2nd choice nation privileges and are guaranteed a spot in the next game should they wish to play:

Tam-Lin
sum1lost
CuriousCat
Tarrax
PsiSoldier
Makinus
shard
AnimateDream

The only condition I place on this is that they act in the best interests of their team. They must not be betray their team or divulge privy information and they must be ready, willing, and able to sub should the need arise in as much as they are able to do so. If any alternate is kicked off their team by the Captain for any of these reasons, they forfeit these benefits.

I want to encourage all alternates to feel like they are a part of the game and a part of their team. Alternates, your input is valuable to your team and is appreciated.

I also encourage team Captains to consider perhaps assigning roles to those alternates who want to take a more active role and who have the time, such as updating info on the forum/threads, creating maps, researching strategy/tactics, learning counters, intelligence gathering, etc, etc. But the prime duty of an alternate is always and has always been, to sub when needed.

There are 6 people on each team (7 if you count the advisers on two of the teams) and 6 or 7 heads are better than four. :up:

CC: via PM to all alternates.

Note: The opening post is being updated with the 3 game status links and a few other links as well.

rdonj

November 3rd, 2009, 07:35 PM

Is there any way we could get these turns in faster? I've been burning out on dominions recently and this is not helping :(

chrispedersen

November 3rd, 2009, 09:20 PM

Rdonj,

Grudge was having technical difficulties, and as I posted, I just got back.

I understand that people are getting antsy

Lingchih

November 3rd, 2009, 09:29 PM

Get those turns in you worthless slackers!

Gandalf Parker

November 3rd, 2009, 10:17 PM

One of the files came in corrupted. The player was notified. Im waiting for a new file or a judgment call.

pyg

November 3rd, 2009, 11:17 PM

I thought I had something brilliant to say, but in the end, this is going to be one of those posts no one thanks me for. I would like to thank Maerlande for setting me straight.

Short version is; hang on tight, Hinnom is going to KICK your butt! And if your butt isn't a politically correct target you can arrange an alternate target with my panel of Qedesim.

chrispedersen

November 3rd, 2009, 11:35 PM

May I suggest niefleheim?

pyg

November 3rd, 2009, 11:57 PM

May I suggest niefleheim?

If contusions to your gluteal muscles from Rephaim are insufficient, as chrispedersen points out Neifelheim may also be available. Contact Dr. P. for details.

DrPraetorious

November 4th, 2009, 12:28 AM

Tired of all the paperwork around having your limbs torn off by a rampaging giant? Then you'll love easy-slay(TM)!

Those desiring to have their butts kicked by Niefelheim need only wait - at a location of their own choosing! Even if you run and hide, easy-slay(TM) will still work for you. Nothing will save you from the free, easy benefits of easy-slay(TM). With easy-slay(TM), you don't have to worry about begging for mercy - easy-slay(TM) has none. Just wait - and not for long! - and easy-slay(TM) will bring the carnage right to your doorstep, and into your home. When you think of soiling yourself with dread and envying the dead, think easy-slay(TM)!

Is easy-slay(TM) right for you? YES IT IS! HA! HA! HA! HA!

GrudgeBringer

November 4th, 2009, 12:50 AM

OK, Grudge is up and running.

I think Chris did my turn but waiting for confirmation before turning in a new one.

Thanks for being patient guys:)

Septimius Severus

November 4th, 2009, 01:22 AM

Chris, glad to see ACGHHS has their act together.

3 days to submit turn 1 is unacceptable! I have therefore invested Lingchih with Imperium (the power to beat and to bind). He has full leave to seek out and hunt down all those who have not submitted turns in a timely fashion. I don't want to hear the word delay again till turn 10 is here.

Septimius Severus

November 4th, 2009, 01:36 AM

RabbitDynamite was informed more than 8 hours ago that there might be an issue with T'ien Chi' due to an apparently corrupted turn file. The player was notified at that time. Algae, I'm going to instruct Gandalf to host at once, we need to get moving here.

AlgaeNymph

November 4th, 2009, 01:38 AM

No problem.

Septimius Severus

November 4th, 2009, 01:44 AM

I don't know why the turn file is coming up as corrupted, it might execute fine it might not. If there is no resubmission by the time Gandalf gets my message and hosts, it won't be that much of an issue, since nothing much happens on turn 1 or turn 0 anyway.

rdonj

November 4th, 2009, 07:48 AM

Gandalf Parker

November 4th, 2009, 11:00 AM

Hosting went smooth (knock on virtual wood)
Its down to 3 scripts. Pre host doing backups. Hosting script. Then Post host mailing out the turns. I ran each separately this time but I think they are ready to merge into one automation script. Thanks all for your patience.

Once everything is complete I will post a thread for pbem games laying them all out as skeleton examples for others to use.

Septimius Severus

November 4th, 2009, 12:58 PM

chrispedersen

November 4th, 2009, 03:02 PM

Rdonj,

Grudge was having technical difficulties, and as I posted, I just got back.

I understand that people are getting antsy

I realize your team has been having some difficulties. It's just extremely frustrating having to wait 3 days for a single turn to be sent in, for a game that's been waiting for 2 months to start. Anyway I am not trying to complain, just venting.

Actually, the reason we hadn't hosted was a corrupted turn from a different team. SS and gandalf have contacted that team, with no reply so far.

Animate Dream: could you please contact me, and/or give me a method of contacting you?

AlgaeNymph

November 4th, 2009, 03:26 PM

Melnorjr can either do a brief stat summary or a sports/commentator :rant: sort of piece.Hmm, commentary'd be interesting.

Septimius Severus

November 5th, 2009, 01:24 AM

12 turns in so far for turn 2, including TC (though don't know if it came up as corrupt again or not). Great job. Looks like things are smoothing out. :cool:

Stay in touch with your teammates and keep the forum/other communications going.

GrudgeBringer

November 5th, 2009, 02:08 AM

OK, I sent my turn 2 to our Noobheim@Yahoo address.

The way I understand it is Isend it there and chris forwards it.

If I need to be sending it somewhere else please let me know.

chrispedersen

November 5th, 2009, 03:42 AM

Due to the vagaries of email delivery, there is no way to know when a turn is actually due....

Hoplosternum

November 5th, 2009, 03:58 AM

I think it is forwarded to gandalf automatically when you send to the Yahoo address....

Hoplosternum

November 5th, 2009, 03:59 AM

Or maybe that was CP sending on my turn :p

RabbitDynamite

November 5th, 2009, 09:36 AM

Well, it looks like TC staled. But Rabbit did have 16+ hours from notification till host to resubmit. Algae, please let us know if you are able to determine what the problem was, assuming it was not a quirk.

I've asked our co-admin melnorjr to give a summary every 5 or so turns (similar to what rdonj did last game) to keep players, alternates, and anyone else interested informed on how things are shaping up for each team. Melnorjr can either do a brief stat summary or a sports/commentator :rant: sort of piece.

Looks, like Hinnom and Neifel :tough: have gotten an early start muscling their way through indies.

Apologies if I held up the game, I hadn't realised as much just from looking at my emails. Looking at the times, I recieved gandalf's mail while I was out, and I had to collapse in bed getting home for an early lecture yesterday. I did re-send the morning after you sent the message, but I hope gandalf didn't use it - my message for turn 2 told me the file was corrupt.

I have no idea what could have screwed it up. The only thing I can think of is mods, but I had nothing incompatible with NAV running at the time I sent (only BI and the arga dis mod nation).

Frozen Lama

November 5th, 2009, 10:25 AM

I see sixteen turns in, and no new turn. is quickhost off?

DrPraetorious

November 5th, 2009, 11:46 AM

I'm travelling today and most of tomorrow, so may not get in a punctual turn, but will try.

Septimius Severus

November 5th, 2009, 12:21 PM

Grudge, of course I prefer you and everyone else on your team send your turns directly to nav@dom3minions.com but if your Captain has something else in mind or some other system, then follow his orders. I don't care, as long as the turns get in on time.

Algae, we are still getting a corrupted file for TC, Gandalf believes he (Rabbit) is attaching it wrong, he says it is coming through as data text. Can Rabbit use another e-mail client or something. What is going on, Gandalf says he has contacted both you and Rabbit what's the story?

Septimius Severus

November 5th, 2009, 12:37 PM

As we move toward the automation of these turns and implementation of quickhost, I've instructed Gandalf that the game should host regardless of corrupted files or missing turns when the regularly scheduled time for hosting has arrived. Provided the affected player recieves an e-mail notification in a timely fashion. Quickhost or fasthost, though requires that all turns be in and in good order.

Algae, I'm sending you Arco's turn via your e-mail. If you do not hear from him shortly, go ahead and complete his turn for him if you can, till you guys iron out the e-mail client issue.

Lets get it together and get moving!!!

AlgaeNymph

November 5th, 2009, 12:39 PM

Algae, I'm sending you Arco's turn via your e-mail.Don't you mean T'ien C'hi's?

Gandalf Parker

November 5th, 2009, 12:41 PM

YAY
We just got 16 passes on 16 files and immediately hosted.

Septimius Severus

November 5th, 2009, 12:41 PM

Algae, I'm sending you Arco's turn via your e-mail.Don't you mean T'ien C'hi's?

Yeah I meant TC, no need though, OK Rabbit got his turn in or something. The turn has hosted. Rabbit and Algae, is everything cool now? No more corrupted files right?

Septimius Severus

November 5th, 2009, 01:06 PM

As we move toward the automation of these turns and implementation of quickhost, I've instructed Gandalf that the game should host regardless of corrupted files or missing turns when the regularly scheduled time for hosting has arrived. Provided the affected player recieves an e-mail notification in a timely fashion. Quickhost or fasthost, though requires that all turns be in and in good order to host earlier.

Reiterating the above.

DrP, if you require a small delay let us know. Lets try to avoid any delays if we can for at least the first 10 turns. Thanks.

DrPraetorious

November 5th, 2009, 01:41 PM

If you can read this post I do not require a delay :). However, heads-up to my teamies - I am having trouble posting to the team forum. Possibly this is something about the internet on the bus.

GrudgeBringer

November 5th, 2009, 11:42 PM

Ok...now that I am up and running...when is the host time for turn 3?

Then from what I understand its 16 hours from host time for the next turn.

Am I correct?

Gandalf Parker

November 6th, 2009, 12:39 AM

According to the first post of this thread its "First 10 turns @ 32 hours, 8 hours will be added every 10 turns thereafter with the maximum to be decided by consensus."

The status page now has a countdown.
http://www.dom3minions.com/~nav/bin/nav_chk.cgi

Altho Im not sure if the hostings are going to happen EXACTLY on the mark.

Septimius Severus

November 6th, 2009, 02:01 AM

Ye gods! :shock: We are getting close to near Llamaserver functionality. Good show.

The current hosting interval is 32 hours, we will switch to 40 hours when we hit turn 11, 48 hours when we hit turn 21, etc, etc.

The good thing about Gandalf's server, there is no twilight zone period between your actions and the actual changes to the games, as you notice on Llamaserver. As soon as you e-mail your turn in, you can see your turn has arrived immediately. When creating games on Llamaserver it can take anywhere from a half hour to an hour for the game to actually show up on the server, but don't think this will be a problem with the Dom3 server. Not running down the Llamaserver or anything, but I do like the speed improvement. Now if we can get a front-end that is as functional as Llamaserver, look out! :D

chrispedersen

November 6th, 2009, 02:28 AM

Lingchih

November 6th, 2009, 04:25 AM

Not bad, Gandalf and Sept. You guys might turn this into a true PBEM server.

Immaculate

November 6th, 2009, 09:57 AM

i am going to montreal and will be back on sunday. Please allow for this.

Gandalf Parker

November 6th, 2009, 12:37 PM

The good thing about Gandalf's server, there is no twilight zone period between your actions and the actual changes to the games, as you notice on Llamaserver.
Still working on it with hosting though. I can easily set it up to host every 32 hours. And I can easily set it up to host whenever all the turns are in. Its getting the two to recognize that the other has already taken care of it that is the problem in order to avoid double-hosting. But its fun so I will continue working on it. :)

Now if we can get a front-end that is as functional as Llamaserver, look out! :D
You mean something like this?
http://www.dom3minions.com/lab/MakeGame.htm
I showed that to LLama back when he was ironing out the details on his server. I was headed toward an all-in-one game option which would support turns by direct-connect, email, ftp, web-browser. And notifications by any means possible which now includes email, irc, IM, text message to cell phone, twitter, and RSS feed. I was also looking at it autocreating a forum and chat for each game possibly to include voice-chat with microphones. Whiteboard was on the list also which would be great for teams.

Ahhh the advantages of having your own server. BUT the hangup was that I could not trust users to auto-create games. Direct-connect means running a copy of Dom3 full time for each one. Not as bad with pbem since it runs then quits but my server wasnt going to support having a hundred copies of Dom3 running continually and many of those not really being played. Its impact enough on the other online worlds on the server doing it the way I do now.
http://www.dom3minions.com/HostedGames.htm
and for special games like this I just offer hints and tips on what can be offered altho I really should work on that more.
http://www.dom3minions.com/HostingGames.htm

I would like to see more direct-connect since I think its easier for new people than pbem

Gandalf Parker

Septimius Severus

November 6th, 2009, 01:32 PM

i am going to montreal and will be back on sunday. Please allow for this.
Noted, please advise your team.

Septimius Severus

November 6th, 2009, 01:41 PM

On a practical matter that just isn't true ss. Email is not guaranteed delivery - so occassion delays will occur.

Quite true, e-mail is not always 100% nor instanaeous, but I was speaking in general terms.

Gandalf, yes that make game page looked nice, too bad you could not/had reservations about implementing it. An admin console for easily altering game options of existing games was more what I was refering too.

The good thing about direct connect, is it should make switching in alternates a breeze (less headaches for the admin). Just hand over your PW to your sub or your team and your good to go.

6 hours to hosting, waiting on 5 turns, ACGHHS mostly.

chrispedersen

November 6th, 2009, 03:05 PM

I haven't heard from Sauro, or either of the alternates, this turn.

At work. Will try to get it in on time. You know the difficulties.

melnorjr

November 6th, 2009, 03:32 PM

If anyone is curious, at the moment, judging purely by score graphs, ACGHHS is the team to beat (I'm keeping organized records and will provide a breakdown on turn 5).

chrispedersen

November 6th, 2009, 04:41 PM

Posted.

Hey also, the staled link isn't working...

Hoplosternum

November 6th, 2009, 04:48 PM

Sorry about going quiet for a day or so. I am still about and playing :)

DrPraetorious

November 6th, 2009, 08:59 PM

Hm... quickhost still doesn't seem to be working, also, I think that the timer is off... as it is 5PM now in California and the timer says it will host in 0 hrs... at midnight tomorrow.

Gandalf Parker

November 6th, 2009, 09:14 PM

yes I still need to work on that countdown thing. I hate math. I especailly hate epoch math.

Luckily the last turn came in and kicked off the hosting anyway.

rdonj

November 6th, 2009, 09:41 PM

I see the turn has hosted, but I don't seem to have gotten my turn yet.

chrispedersen

November 6th, 2009, 10:07 PM

None of the ACGHHS Team has gotten a turn.

DrPraetorious

November 6th, 2009, 10:07 PM

I haven't either.

chrispedersen

November 6th, 2009, 10:12 PM

Septimius Severus

November 6th, 2009, 10:19 PM

Hmm, good job of you all getting in your turn files (I assume on time) seems no one has received a turn file yet though the turn has apparently hosted. I take it Gandalf is still ironing out the kinks. We will have to wait on him to get those turn files out and correct the issue. If I am not mistaken the score graphs have not yet been updated. I believe we should be on turn 4.

chrispedersen

November 6th, 2009, 10:38 PM

well its weird, there's no files in the submitted files directory

Septimius Severus

November 6th, 2009, 10:52 PM

well its weird, there's no files in the submitted files directory

Yes, we should be on turn 4. Both of those links should reflect that. There wouldn't be any files in the directory if we had actually hosted, unless someone has sent in something since then.

Gandalf Parker

November 7th, 2009, 02:34 AM

My apologies (again)
It looked at my end as if everything had gone right. I took my son out to a party. I just ran the post.sh again. Hopefully it went allright? Has anyone gotten a file yet?

Frozen Lama

November 7th, 2009, 03:20 AM

i got mine. all good

Hoplosternum

November 7th, 2009, 07:26 AM

DrPraetorious

November 7th, 2009, 10:49 AM

For some reason, the server send out the same .trn file twice. They're exactly identical, so is not an issue.

GrudgeBringer

November 7th, 2009, 11:08 AM

If you would notice that the tortoise (lol, used spell check is tortoise a turtle, pretty bad when you don't even recognise a correct spelling:o), has been plodding along getting those turns in (patting himself on the back).

Stupid rabbits....:p

melnorjr

November 7th, 2009, 12:59 PM

If anyone is curious, at the moment, judging purely by score graphs, ACGHHS is the team to beat (I'm keeping organized records and will provide a breakdown on turn 5).

Well I hate to quibble with you melnorjr but by the two most important ratings at this point - Provinces and Income - on both turn 3 and 4 the leader was - as expected - Deva's Darlings :)

With ACGHHS second, Mysterios third and the Blessed Ones back in forth.

So far this mirrors Sept's adjusted forum age rankings, Sept's initial rankings, QM's Dominions Nations Evaluations rankings and the Global Warming rankings :)

yes, the deva's are running the privinces and income charts, but in the long run, gem income and research usually winds the game, not provinces, and ACGHHS is running both gem income and research. If the deva's can turn that around however, that's another matter. ACGHHS is sitting at over 3x anyone else's research.

ACGHHS also has the largest army, and thus good expansion potential.

Agema

November 7th, 2009, 01:53 PM

In the early game, provinces and gold is far more representative of being ahead than research and gems.

Ultimately, gold will turn into mage recruitment and thus research, and provinces will turn into gems once they are site searched.

Illuminated One

November 7th, 2009, 02:13 PM

Don't worry I'll be pulling the Deva's down enough if things don't change.

Gandalf Parker

November 7th, 2009, 04:50 PM

The counter is back on the status page.
My head is swimming with numbers :(
Does that all look right for a 32 hour count?

Septimius Severus

November 7th, 2009, 06:23 PM

The counter is back on the status page.
My head is swimming with numbers :(
Does that all look right for a 32 hour count?

Good work getting things back on track.

Hmm, let see:

The game last hosted on Fri Nov 6 17:07:54 PST 2009
And will host again on Sun Nov 8 01:07:54 PST 2009 (now 10 hours)

The interval appears to be correct, 9/6 17:07:54 + 24:00:00 = 9/7 17:07:54 + 08:00:00 = 9/8 1:07:54. :up:

10 hours from now PST (currently 14:22:00 +10:00:00) = 00:22:00 9/8, but I am assuming the hours are rounded. Good approximation anyway.

Even though the turn may have hosted 9/6 at 5:00 PM PST (8PM EST) , there was a space of time before anyone actually received a turn file, around 6 or 7 hours. We will need to add a few hours onto the host, to account for this and to allow Immaculate time to get a turn in.

Melnorj, I look forward to your report next turn.

Septimius Severus

November 7th, 2009, 06:33 PM

Gandalf, please delay the current turn by 14 hours (6 or 7 for the missed time, plus a little bit extra for Immaculate). Hopefully people will get their turns in (including Immaculate) before then and fast/quick host will kick in.

Get those turns in you worthless slackers!

Lingchih

November 7th, 2009, 07:44 PM

Jeez! What is it? Turn 4? How long does it take to do a turn. Hopeless.

Immaculate

November 7th, 2009, 08:50 PM

I'm good- i'm back from montreal and first thing i did is play. Sorry for the slight delay.

I.

Septimius Severus

November 8th, 2009, 11:01 AM

I'm good- i'm back from montreal and first thing i did is play. Sorry for the slight delay.

Welcome back. So lets get that single turn in for Pangaea and we won't have to use up the extra 8 hours that remain on the clock as of this post.

Lingchih's job as Turn Enforcer, reminds me of a bit of the Roman Optio, who standing in the rear of the century or maniple, would help the Centurion in keeping order. The Optio might assist a wavering/dithering solider with his resolve by means of his stout staff of office (hastile).

Also reminds me of the subway "pushers" in Japan, who's job it is/was to shove the last people into the already jam packed subway cars.

chrispedersen

November 8th, 2009, 11:13 AM

Um, Sept.

Pangaea's turn is in ... and again it looks like the game has hosted.. I just don't think we're getting turns.

Septimius Severus

November 8th, 2009, 11:20 AM

Then it is time to dispatch another message to Gandalf. I had hoped he would have gotten the quickhost/fasthost and the email thing ironed out. Thanks for getting the turn in though.

Gandalf Parker

November 8th, 2009, 11:35 AM

Septimius Severus

November 8th, 2009, 11:43 AM

Actually the outgoing turns and the incoming email about no turns crossed each other. But thanks for the reminder anyway.

PBEM isnt instant like direct-connect games. But the gaps should start getting shorter between actions as we tweak it.

Gandalf Parker

Ah, so there's a slight delay in processing and so forth. Perhaps that is why the score graphs are not coming up yet (getting forbidden error).

Edit: There they are. Sheesh, fortune has not been with me so far :(, hopefully this will change soon. :)

Note: Though, I know it's early yet, I've created the map and start locations for game 2. I'll probably post a sneak preview later today.

Gandalf Parker

November 8th, 2009, 12:01 PM

Actually that was a tweak I needed to do. A linuxy thing. The post.sh was moving the stats and score files but I failed to notice that the game creates them giving only the owner permission to read them. I had to add a line making them publicly viewable before moving them to the webdir.

Also linuxy is that as a server for multiple users linux is really geared toward multi-processing. It has a tendency to read a script and do many things in it at the same time. I have to put "sleep" commands thru scripts, and "wait for" options, to make sure that necessary items happen in order. Im gradually tweaking those smaller as we go. Direct-connect makes alot of that unneeded so Im still experimenting abit with the pbem needs.

Septimius Severus

November 9th, 2009, 10:10 AM

Here's the map with proposed starting locations for NaV II as I promised for those who may be interested.

Map Key:

Purple X(s): Special magic sites
Solid red circles/elipses: Primary AI starts
Hollow red circles/elipses: Secondary AI starts
White, Green, Blue, Yellow circles/elipses: human team starts

The map is square, waterless, 1700 x 1700 with 270 provinces.

GrudgeBringer

November 9th, 2009, 05:31 PM

Has anyone heard from Chris?

There are files to be sent in and its not like him to go incognito...:confused:

AlgaeNymph

November 9th, 2009, 05:35 PM

Has anyone heard from Chris?Yep, he's been busy getting support for The Alliance.

melnorjr

November 9th, 2009, 06:43 PM

Turn 5 report:

Provinces:
The Deva's took an early lead on...taking things and are now at 27 collective provinces. However, ACGHHS is not letting them run away with it by any means, trailing by only one province. THe AI menace, for reference, has 24.

Furthest behind is the blessed ones, at 11 provinces, and vanheim, why do you only have 19 men in your army?

Presumably state secrets. Moving on,

all player nations are tied with 4 forts, the AI menace has a total of 5.

The deva's are also leading on income, at 2836 to ACGHHS' 2462, however, over the course of the game, they have only earned approximately 467 more gold. The mysterios and the blessed ones trail behind at 1982 and 1831 income, respectively.
The AI menace sits happily at 2777

in the realm of gem income, ACGHHS is the clear breakaway, at 30 to the deva's 25, and everyone else's 24.

In the realm of magical research, ACGHHS is again the clear breakaway at 153, with the blessed ones, deva's, and mysterios trailing at 64, 56,and 37 respectively.

the AI menace is at 2081. with a research count of 130 on turn 2, Agartha seems to have started the game with either 15 mages, or a god with 16 in every magic path. :p

The largest standing army award goes to arcoscephale, and then mictlan, both on ACGHHS.

Provinces:
Deva's, 27
ACGHHS, 26
AI menace, 24
Mysterios, 16
Blessed ones, 11

Net income:
AI menace, 9920
Deva's 9000
ACGHHS, 8533
Mysterios, 8075
Blessed ones, 6262

Net gem income:
ACGHHS, 115
AI mencae, 110
Deva's, 100
Mysterios, Blessed ones, 96.

Research:
AI menace, 2081
ACGHHS, 153
Blessed ones, 64
Deva's 56
Mysterios, 37

Using a completely arbitrary and largely meaningless ranking system based on relative position within the graphs, the teams come to collective points thusly:

Blessed ones, 8
Mysterios, 9
Deva's, 18
ACGHHS, 21
AI menace, 24

Septimius Severus

November 9th, 2009, 11:14 PM

Thanks for that report Melnorjr. Seems the Deva's and ACGHHS are leading the pack in different categories. We can expect the AI team to start heading towards the bottom as time progresses (hopefully), but it'll be nice to see what surprises might be in store for us.

Septimius Severus

November 10th, 2009, 02:42 PM

AI Ermor's Grenc is dead :rip:, killed in the arena death match by his AI kin. What a shame! Who shall weep? Maybe Gandalf will. :p

Alas Grenc, we hardly knew ye ...

"... and if you find yourself alone riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled, for you are in Elysium, and you're already dead! ..."

Septimius Severus

November 11th, 2009, 02:47 PM

chrispedersen

November 11th, 2009, 11:26 PM

rdonj

November 11th, 2009, 11:40 PM

It is my hope that teams are not ignoring the AI team and their provinces completely. As of turn 7, there were still 79 indies provinces without owners and 31 provinces in the hands of the AI team up for grabs before you absolutely need to attack another human player. There is a slight danger in the human teams decimating each other first and being overcome by the AI. Or at least that is what I was hoping.

Can anyone share some feedback on the performance of the AI teams nations and the BI mod so far.

Are you seeing the AI fielding large armies of national troops?

Does it appear the AI is being bankrupted, not producing units, not making use of any other types of units such as indy archers, or any other issues that you see?

Do you feel the mod is too limiting for you? Are there certain units you'd like to build and cannot? Chaff units do have some uses for human players, as seige meat, arrow fodder, and so forth.

I have noticed there is at least one variety of militia that is recruitable though they seem inferiorly equipped compared to the unrecruitable version, however reading through the mod thread and the mod itself, it appears Edi included them because they are used in an event and so could not be disabled.

Thanks in advance for your feedback.

I at one point was going to recruit some wolf tribe warriors to flesh out an army, since they can do quite a bit of damage with their dual daggers. However, they cost 9,000 gold a piece with the mod :(. Oh well, I don't really use independants that much anyway, it's more just an inconvenience that they're not available.

I think the AIs are doing fine. I'm not going to name names, but one of them has some summer lions they've summoned and a fort+temple they've built nearish me. They're a lot stronger than I thought they were going to be for this game.

Septimius Severus

November 12th, 2009, 02:54 AM

Team ACGHHS cannot upload turns.... email is not accepting, and gandalf's server is not accepting from a different address....

I can send the turns to gandalf directly; can we delay to get these in.. I've been trying for more than 2 hours....

I see the game has hosted and apparently no one staled, if the staling link page is to be trusted. I am just now seeing your delay request, though unfortunately not in time for me to have done anything about it unless Melnorjr saw it and had time to request a delay on your behalf. Have you ironed out the issues with e-mail? Server issues are of course Gandalf's realm.

Gandalf Parker

November 12th, 2009, 11:08 AM

Yes it hosted, and no one staled.
I had the 32 hour hosting licked and was looking forward to last night being a test. It would have automatically hosted after I had gone to bed. But the last file slipped in just in time. No sweat. It was a good test of NOT doing a double hosting when the 32 hours are up and the all-files-in hosts ahead of that.

chrispedersen

November 13th, 2009, 10:57 AM

Hey guys,

One of my team members submitted a turn, I know I saw it on the website that it was submitted.

However, he got a stale turn. I don't know the cause, but the only thing I can think of is he sent an old turn.

Gandalf, may I suggest a small turn checking routine, prior to posting. Some details I will bring up offline -but I believe that llamasserver automatically checks the turn number submitted.

Best,

Gandalf Parker

November 13th, 2009, 11:03 AM

Yes I see that option. I will work on it today.
(and yes, one of the turns sent in was turn 7 instead of turn 8)

Septimius Severus

November 13th, 2009, 02:14 PM

Interim report on AI as of turn 9 (until we get Melnorjr's report):

Indy controlled provinces = 45
AI team controlled provinces = 34
Biggest AI Nation (province-wise)= C'tis @ 11 provinces

Has anyone noticed whether the AI nations have been attacking each other (bumping aside)? There was some talk in other threads of the possibility of the ally command being able to be broken by an arena event and I just want to make sure that is not happening, particularly with regard to Ermor.

Algae, how are the Blessed Ones making out? Everything OK I take it game-wise.

Maerlande

November 13th, 2009, 02:18 PM

I noticed that C'tis built a fort in the corner. So the AI is functioning.

AlgaeNymph

November 14th, 2009, 12:11 AM

Algae, how are the Blessed Ones making out? Everything OK I take it game-wise.Umm...SN:AFU, sir.

chrispedersen

November 14th, 2009, 03:34 AM

8 hours remaining. Team ACGHHS would like to request an 8 hour delay.

Illuminated One

November 14th, 2009, 08:48 AM

I'm going to be away this weekend. If the next turn hosts before 22:00gmt+0 can you please delay it until then?

Septimius Severus

November 14th, 2009, 09:53 AM

Chris, I've just checked the thread this morning and saw your request for an 8 hour delay at around 1 hour till hosting. If Gandalf gets this in time, I hereby ask him to delay the game 8 hours (PM sent).

Assuming Gandalf does get the message in time (a good possibility since it's still early morning on the west coast), Sauromatia and Arco, please try to submit your turns within this time frame at least for the current turn. When we hit turn 10 a longer delay may be instituted for Illuminated's sake and in case there are any other reasons to do so.

If you guys end up staling, we can take a vote on a rollback.

Gandalf Parker

November 14th, 2009, 10:05 AM

Before 6am in the morning on a Saturday? Are you nuts?
(message received and handled) :)

Septimius Severus

November 14th, 2009, 11:56 AM

Gandalf has processed the delay, now 7 hours left till host. Hoplo and Grudge, lets get those last two turns in please at least. Next turn we can iron out any other difficulties.

Maerlande

November 14th, 2009, 01:35 PM

Gandalf,

Do we have the capacity to send updated turns on your server with NaV?

If not that's okay, just asking.

Thanks,
Maer:D

rdonj

November 14th, 2009, 03:18 PM

Yes, we do.

Gandalf Parker

November 14th, 2009, 03:28 PM

Yep. As many as you want. Right up until hosting time.

Also worth mentioning is that the nav_chk and the Turns_Check have been changed. They both take into account not only the file verification, but also a turn number check (thanks Chris)

Maerlande

November 14th, 2009, 04:00 PM

Sweet. Thanks guys

Maerlande

November 14th, 2009, 04:02 PM

PS: Monkeys love Poultry

Hoplosternum

November 14th, 2009, 06:13 PM

Our team suffered three CD violations that turn (as well as the loss of our captain). So Mictlan, Sauromatia and Pan have all missed their turns even though they were all sent in before the deadline.

Is there any chance that the turn end could be regenerated as this is obviously very serious so early in the game? We can resubmit the turns (and Gandalf or someone can check they are the same if needed).

Otherwise we are fairly screwed by this....

Immaculate

November 14th, 2009, 07:12 PM

I think its fair to help out this team by replaying this turn (IMHO).

AlgaeNymph

November 14th, 2009, 07:13 PM

Agreed.

DrPraetorious

November 14th, 2009, 07:16 PM

Ugh, that sucks. Yes, I agree, this would justify a rehost - but do it quickly, if at all possible.

Also, I'd much prefer that the turns be opened and closed again by someone else (changing the CD entry, yes?) rather than literally resubbed, since follow up turns have now been seen.

chrispedersen

November 14th, 2009, 08:37 PM

If there's anything I can do to help, please let me know...

Septimius Severus

November 15th, 2009, 12:08 AM

A roll back to turn 9 is certainly no problem, and if we do it, I expect any re-submissions to be done quickly (Gandalf should already have the turns for everyone else) and as fairly as possible.

However, it will not be necessary and makes no difference if there is no team ACGHHS anymore.

There is trouble within the team and I am getting multiple resignation PM's. Therefore I have decided we will roll back if any member of team ACGHHS wants to continue and replacements can be found for any missing members. I will extend/delay the current turn as necessary to allow that to happen but within reason. If replacements cannot be found, team ACGHHS will be declared to have conceded by default and all their nations will be turned AI.

I am sorry to hear of these troubles with ACGHHS, especially with the possible loss of the captain of that team (whom I thought was quite innovative and talented) and at least 2 other members. They were and still are 2nd favored to win. But their exit will change the balance of power, that much is certain.

Septimius Severus

November 15th, 2009, 01:06 AM

As a follow up to my previous post, I am instructing Gandalf to add an additional 32 hours onto the current hosting interval to allow ACGHHS a chance to find replacements/decide whether they are disbanding/and or get things organized. If ACGHHS, or whoever is left on that team wants more time/decides that they will continue, let me know.

As it looks right now, they appear to be disbanding, so this extra time will probably not be needed, but we shall see. Unless you see/hear anything to the contrary I'd urge everyone else to complete their turns and submit them (in a timely fashion) keeping this fact in mind.

Good luck to all.

DrPraetorious

November 15th, 2009, 01:37 AM

Well, that sucks, since that would place AI teams on the only board edge that *doesn't* border my team :(.

Septimius Severus

November 15th, 2009, 02:08 AM

Well, that sucks, since that would place AI teams on the only board edge that *doesn't* border my team :(.
Well, you'd still have the AI team in the center bordering you I suspect, plus any of the southern corner AI locations that remain.

Hoplosternum

November 15th, 2009, 08:01 AM

As it looks right now, they appear to be disbanding, so this extra time will probably not be needed, but we shall see. Unless you see/hear anything to the contrary I'd urge everyone else to complete their turns and submit them (in a timely fashion) keeping this fact in mind.

Good luck to all.

I am not sure if you consider me to be one of those who have resigned or not.

But I am happy for the team to go AI.

Thanks for the game everyone. Sorry it has ended like this.

Can Gandalf turn our nations AI?

DrPraetorious

November 15th, 2009, 11:36 AM

ACGHHS was in first or second place, depending on how you reckon it. The team collapsed due to some kind of interpersonal strife? Is this related to the CD-key violation?

Agema

November 15th, 2009, 03:36 PM

What's happened?

Septimius Severus

November 15th, 2009, 06:52 PM

Well folks, Chris has indicated that he is working on trying to reorganize his team and that they want to try to remain in the game. Apparently the way they were submitting or completing their turns led to access key violations or something of that nature. Although there are apparently other issues going on with the team.

Team ACGHHS now has 38 hours left to get it together so we can get moving (though I hope we can do something before then). If they can do so (and they have 4 players to play the turns) we will do the roll back that was mentioned (assuming Gandalf can do so). If they cannot, we will set their nations AI and move on. I am sure there are at least two teams that are hungrily eyeing their possessions. ;)

chrispedersen

November 16th, 2009, 12:19 AM

We have an answer from Johan on how to (probably) resolve the CD key violation. We are now merely waiting on the rollback.

Septimius Severus

November 16th, 2009, 03:51 AM

Ok, everyone, Chris tells me that he has got his team's problems sorted out and all his people are continuing apparently. I hope there will be no more issues with ACGHHS going forward, I want no more issues. We've a game to run and there is much killin' to be done.

I am going to e-mail Gandalf, to see if he can accomplish the roll back to turn 9 immediately. I am not sure of the way roll backs are accomplished on his server, however Gandalf should have everyones 2h files (containing your orders for turn 9) as well as your turn files from turn 9. As admin, I also have a copy of these and can send them to anyone who wants to review or change their orders for turn 9. Everyone except team ACCHHS, will probably not need to resubmit their 2h's unless as I mentioned, they wish to change them. I will ask Gandalf to place everyones 2h files into the game directory, so that turn 9 will process when those 4 2h files from team ACGHHS come in. We will put some time on the clock for this and any revised turns to come in.

Depending upon how the roll back is handled by the server, you may or may not receive another trn file for turn 9, remember, everyone excepting team ACGHHS, will probably not need to do anything (unless you want to revise/change your orders) in which case you can contact me and I will send you your old 2h file and trn file if needed.

Thanks for your patience.

Edit:

I am sending team ACGHHS their files for turn 9, so that they may redo them and be ready to resubmit them when the roll back is completed. I will ask Gandalf to put, say 16 hours on the clock for this and any revised 2h's to be sent in.

Note to everyone: make a backup of your current trn and 2h files for turn 10, just in case for whatever reason Gandalf cannot complete the roll back.

Septimius Severus

November 16th, 2009, 05:19 AM

Follow up note:

I am requesting this roll back for the sake of Team ACGHHS because Chris has told me they have their act together and I am trying to be fair. If for any reason, they are any more problems after this from that team (i.e. if they stale when/if the rollback is completed), the entire team will be set to AI and that will be that.

If for any reason Gandalf cannot complete the rollback, Team ACGHHS will just have to deal with the 3 stales and we will move on to turn 11 when the current timer expires.

DrPraetorious

November 16th, 2009, 10:20 AM

Gandalf Parker

November 16th, 2009, 11:18 AM

Rollback in place. Unzipping yesterdays save to the game directory was not a problem.
(more problem was convincing the counters not to go off at 32 hours from time of previous hosting) :)

Maerlande

November 16th, 2009, 12:32 PM

So I'm not clear. Do we resubmit turn 9?

Septimius Severus

November 16th, 2009, 12:47 PM

No. The only team that MUST resubmit their 2h files for turn 9 is team ACGHHS (they have already been sent their old trn and 2h files). They have 16 hours (now 15 hours) in which to do so.

If anyone else would like to change their orders for turn 9, they may do so. But it is not necessary. If you would like to do so, you need to contact me via PM immediately so that I can send you your old trn. and 2h file from turn 9.

pyg

November 16th, 2009, 12:59 PM

I will not be able to play the 24-27 of this month so if we are not going to have a holiday break I will get an alt set up.

Maerlande

November 16th, 2009, 01:06 PM

Hey pyg. Is there a holiday late November in the US?

pyg

November 16th, 2009, 01:12 PM

Hey pyg. Is there a holiday late November in the US?

Yeah, but I forget what it's called... something with a rabbit? ;)

Septimius Severus

November 16th, 2009, 01:19 PM

Unless they're expected to stale again and again, are we really going to set them to AI for one collective stale?

It seems to me that if the problem arises because Chris is reprocessing his teams turns, they can keep playing without him doing that?

DrP, Chris and his team had chosen to do/submit their turns in an unorthodox fashion. Frankly, it does not matter to me what they or any other team do, as long as they get their turns on time and without issues. If they stale again, I may be lenient and not turn them AI immediately, but we should not have to do a rollback (and we will not) and the game should not be unnecessarily delayed for everyone else because of it. I am allowing this roll back because I said I would and I want to be fair.

No other team is having these issues. Everyone else is recieving their turns individually, completing them themselves, and submitting them. No problems.

Sorry to seem heavyhanded, but I simply must keep things moving, and as simple as possible for all involved. We must keep a semblance of order or risk devolving into chaos.:up:

Septimius Severus

November 16th, 2009, 01:23 PM

I will not be able to play the 24-27 of this month so if we are not going to have a holiday break I will get an alt set up.

Depending upon who else may be out for the thanksgiving holiday, we may institute a delay. We will see. If you are the only one requiring a delay and if the delay is significant (over 48 hours), yes you may need to switch in an alternate. Your team captain has overall responsibility for handling, contacting, arranging alternates.

Maerlande

November 16th, 2009, 01:29 PM

Harelloween?

Gandalf Parker

November 16th, 2009, 02:06 PM

Halloween (Samhain) was the only holiday you had to worry about me. I should be online now till spring.

DrPraetorious

November 16th, 2009, 06:20 PM

chrispedersen

November 16th, 2009, 10:25 PM

As a point of order, Dr. P. I actually have not seen any of the turns, and regardless most of my team had no orders to benefit from intelligence.

The same will not be true of anyone else. All other teams presumably would be able to benefit from the intelligence received from their actions.

I think sept's chosen course of action minimizes disruption to the game. Still, as it was my team that caused the problem I will fully support sept in whatever decision he chooses to make.

Septimius Severus

November 17th, 2009, 01:39 AM

All fine and good by me.

Quick answers please:
DO WE NEED TO RESUBMIT TURN 9? Yes/no?

MAY WE RESUBMIT TURN 9? If Chris' team is resubmitting turns, even having seen their turn 10 stales, I think it would only be fair and reasonable to *allow* a resubmit of turn 9 for those who wish to do so.

DrP, I addressed this issue back in post 637 (13 hours ago). No one else absolutely needed to resubmit turn 9 except for ACGHHS. But others could do so if they wanted, provided they notified me at or around that time so that I could get their old files to them. The turn has hosted though, so it is a moot issue now. I doubt there was anything of importance the team learned be being able to see turn 10 in advance at this early stage of the game. Anyway, we are moving forward, unless Gandalf informs me otherwise.

Septimius Severus

November 17th, 2009, 01:57 AM

It looks like no one staled on the redone turn 9, so that is good. Gandalf needs to adjust the hosting interval for this turn back to 32 hours from host time (whenever that occured), 95 hours is a bit too long. :)

A reminder, next turn we will be moving to a 40 hour hosting interval as per our schedule.

Septimius Severus

November 17th, 2009, 11:26 AM

This has been a trying game for for all involved. A test of patience and perservance, a test of leadership and of courage, a test of cooperation and of teamwork. If it has been so for the individual player, I am sure you can all image how much it has been for team Captains, and even more so for the adminstrators (and I have three of these team games under my belt). But I am glad that people are sticking it out and enjoying themselves despite such things.

Now a few words from our kind and loving Turn Enforcer (20+ hours before hosting) are in order I think:

Jeez! What is it? Turn 10? How long does it take to do a turn. Hopeless.

Get those turns in you worthless slackers!

Maerlande

November 17th, 2009, 11:30 AM

Well, fun. My new turn 10 is corrupt.

Message is Nagot gick fel! unit2com inconsistency.

It will not open.

Septimius Severus

November 17th, 2009, 11:34 AM

Well, fun. My new turn 10 is corrupt.

Message is Nagot gick fel! unit2com inconsistency.

It will not open.

Strange, no problem with mine. Make sure there is not a mod conflict, all files are in the right places and so forth. Contact Gandalf ASAP and have him send you a new copy of the current turn. That is all I can think of doing right now. Don't know why that would be happening.

Maerlande

November 17th, 2009, 11:41 AM

Okay. Got it all resolved in IRC. My .2h file from Turn 10 before was conflicting. So note to self. Delete any .2h's on a rollback.

Lingchih

November 18th, 2009, 12:02 AM

Ahh, a rollback. Who doesn't love a rollback? Well, I don't! It's a rollback you sloths!. Get your turn in if you need to. Hell, it's a great chance for a do-over, if nothing else.

Oh, sorry, I guess the rollback is complete. Well, get your turns in anyway.

rdonj

November 18th, 2009, 01:50 AM

Seriously, turns should be done by now. I had my turn in 5 minutes after the resent email got to me.

DrPraetorious

November 18th, 2009, 07:36 AM

Has hoplosternum quit? He said he was quitting at one point...

Gandalf Parker

November 18th, 2009, 09:26 AM

Some people are sliding thru with no problems, and others seem to he hitting various snags. I hope that none of this poisons anyones opinion of the game itself.

I would recommend that some people, just to get comfortable again with the game, might want to start playing a game for just yourself on Llama's server and on my server. Just to get a no-pressure feel for things. And if you feel your problems are with how the game progresses then you might chalk it up to learning experience and start a public game yourself. Im not being rude. I just wanted to point out that there are options.

Immaculate

November 18th, 2009, 10:12 AM

When i opened the messages for the turn i got a message from the host suggesting that one of the nations had an unexplainable spike in income which could be the result of cheating.

I am sure no one is cheating but for some reason the host thinks so. Maybe its worth looking into. If i am the only one who got that message i can provide further details... otherwise i will leave it in your capable hands.

I.

AlgaeNymph

November 18th, 2009, 10:48 AM

Nope, I got it too.

Agema

November 18th, 2009, 10:48 AM

That message flags up occasionally as a bug. They haven't actually had a huge income spike.

DrPraetorious

November 18th, 2009, 12:26 PM

It also might be turn corruption - if they submitted a turn where they spend more money than they have or something? This is why I don't like rollbacks - but we'll just move on with our lives.

Illuminated One

November 18th, 2009, 01:35 PM

Eh, formoria you cheat.

Now I know who was the thief that stole me gems.

Just joking.

Septimius Severus

November 18th, 2009, 02:44 PM

Eh, formoria you cheat.

Now I know who was the thief that stole me gems.

Just joking.

What insolence! What arrogance! What impudence! For this your Captain should administer the 'castigato' or the 'animadversio fustium' (a few swift cracks upside your head and buttocks). :tough: :D

Seriously though, that message pops up in many games and usually means absolutely nothing.

Game note: There is some reorganization going on within team ACGHHS. Chris is dropping Animate Dream from the alternate position and the 'fustuarium' has apparently been implemented as well. There's at least one open slot for any lucky devil who'd like to join.

Hoplosternum

November 18th, 2009, 06:06 PM

Has hoplosternum quit? He said he was quitting at one point...

No. But I misread the timings so my nation staled :(

Anyway my Captain may want to replace me for being a no good slacker. But if not I'm still playing :)

chrispedersen

November 18th, 2009, 06:33 PM

Hey gandalf.. a suggestion (not in anyway tied to Hop staling)

Seconds are not really player useful.
Nor is PST as anything that requires calculation.

I know its ego wise its a bit hubling to imitate .. but llamas display has been through several iterations and player feedback.

Whats useful for players:

Turn 9 is due at xx:yy PST or in 14:32 (hh:mm) hours.
Last update: aa:bb

The last update lets players know that the llamaserver is still up and accurate.

Gandalf Parker

November 18th, 2009, 08:48 PM

I will look at cleaning it up some more. The actual answer I get is
2009-11-18 05:14:22.948572135 -0800

chrispedersen

November 18th, 2009, 10:37 PM

LOL.. well thanks for not publishing that = )

Septimius Severus

November 19th, 2009, 01:27 AM

Hmm, didn't see Melnorjr's report yet, so I figured I'd share just a few key stats with everyone:

As of turn 11, the top landowner aside from indies (24) was Mictlan with 24 provinces.

The wealthiest player was Ulm, with an income of 1274 gold per turn.

There's a four way tie in gem income between AI Abysia, T'ien Chi', Neifelheim, and Kailasa.

The AI team still dominates the research front, Arco has the most of any human nation at 457.

Most believers (dominion) award goes to Pangaea at 232.

Greatest military force belongs to AI C'tis, with Sauromatia (463), the strongest human played nation.

Melnorjr will likely have the full stats and/or team breakdowns.

Septimius Severus

November 19th, 2009, 02:29 PM

There's a tie in the polls on the team forums at 2 a piece for future team names/themes between:

Elemental Lords - Theme: Fire/Water/Air/Earth Magic

and

Hovering Hooligans - Theme: Flying Units/Air Magic

:p

Immaculate

November 19th, 2009, 04:38 PM

Gandolf,

I keep getting this message from your server:
Immaculate, we are still waiting for your early_tirnanog turn file.

Well, keep getting is an exageration. i've gotten it for the last two turns. This is despite the fact that i am sure i've e-mailed my turn as soon as i played it (its in my sent box). The result is i end up playing my turn, sending it, then later on, get a message saying that i need to resend my turn (which i did do last turn).

Now, i just checked the list and it says i didn't send my turn so i'll send it as soon as possible (within a 2-3 hours) but it does seem strange that this has happened twice. Am i forgetting something? I am sending my turn to "nav@dom3minions.com"

Thank you for your attention to this matter.

Squirrelloid

November 19th, 2009, 06:58 PM

I seem to be replacing Hoplosternum. I do not know when the turn is due or even how to check that (the sticky about dom3minions didn't help), nor have I had an adequate chance to confer with my allies and find out what is happening. Can I get or do I need an extension at this time?

Gandalf Parker

November 19th, 2009, 08:00 PM

The first post of this thread has the links.

Noobs and Vets game information links:

www.dom3minions.com/~nav/scores.html (http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Enav/scores.html) (score graphs)
www.dom3minions.com/~nav/bin/nav_chk.cgi (http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Enav/bin/nav_chk.cgi) (turns received)
www.dom3minions.com/~nav/stats.txt (http://www.dom3minions.com/%7Enav/stats.txt) (staling data)

It shows 5 more hours until the timed-out hosting.
Unless TienChi sends their turn in sooner which will host immediately.
Then its 40 hours after that for the next turn.

Squirrelloid

November 19th, 2009, 08:02 PM

I think I got a turn in, so game on. Assuming TC is alive somewhere.

Lingchih

November 19th, 2009, 11:26 PM

Rabbit, don't test my patience. Get your freaking turn in!

Septimius Severus

November 20th, 2009, 02:32 AM

Game updates:

NaV welcomes Squirrelloid and SciencePro to the game. :welcome:

They've joined team ACGHHS. SciencePro replacing AnimateDream in the alternate slot and Squirrelloid coming in for Hoplosternum as Sauromatia I believe.

A thank you to Hoplosternum and AnimateDream for participating.

Septimius Severus

November 20th, 2009, 03:44 AM

Congratulations to Vanheim :up:, who was the first to get their turn in last turn (11) within 6 minutes of hosting. Now that's fast. I shall send you 1 gold as your reward (tis all I can spare). :D

DrPraetorious

November 20th, 2009, 07:35 PM

Septimius Severus

November 21st, 2009, 02:11 AM

CuriousCat is gone for thanksgiving and we have had no word from Tarrax, so it appears that the dreaded Frank Trollman, whom ye other vets may fear of old, has agreed to sub for a turn or two.

He'll need access to the NaV forum (can I do that myself with the admin tools?). He doesn't use this forum: those wishing to contact Frank should wail with despair into the uncaring void. You will hear Frank laughing.

Are you talking about a sub for Illuminated over Thanksgiving? If you feel you want him to sub and have temporary access to your team's forum, have him register and I'll get him squared.

Immaculate

November 21st, 2009, 12:00 PM

I too will need a sub over thanksgiving algae nymph. Psi warrior- you are our sub right? You reading this?

Septimius Severus

November 21st, 2009, 03:27 PM

DrP, Frank Trollman now has temporary access to the Deva's forum. Advise us as to when to switch him in so he can receive Illuminated's turns.

Immaculate, I probably would have instituted a small delay for the holiday, but as people seem to prefer bringing in alternates/subs that will work too and would keep things moving I suppose. Your team's alternates are PsiSoldier and Makinus. Get with your Captain/team on arranging a sub.

Septimius Severus

November 21st, 2009, 04:27 PM

The number of independent provinces continue to shrink (now at 13) someone or something is grabbing them and the pressure builds as space dwindles. Mali of AI C'tis now holds 16 provinces, has a large income, vast dominion, and the most powerful army in the game. What will happen next? I can't stand the suspense. :eek::popcorn:

AlgaeNymph

November 21st, 2009, 05:27 PM

PsiSoldier and Makinus, let me know in the team forum if you want to sub. Let me know via PM if you can't access the team forum.

Septimius Severus

November 22nd, 2009, 03:20 AM

Correction to my earlier post, Frank Trollman is coming in for Pyg (Hinnom) over Thanksgiving.

DrPraetorious

November 22nd, 2009, 11:12 AM

I won't request an extension - but I second and vote-for any extensions anyone else may request :).

chrispedersen

November 22nd, 2009, 01:11 PM

Coordinating team turns when people will be travelling is going to be incredibly difficult.

I just suggest we set it to quickhost only during the days of Thursday - Sunday, and ask people to get their turns in as best they can...

Septimius Severus

November 22nd, 2009, 02:45 PM

Well the server is already set to quick host and will host if all turns come in anyway, I don't know that Gandalf can just set the server to quick host only without including some sort of turn hosting interval timer. If that is possible, we could go with that, otherwise what your talking about is just a delay.

It's up to you guys really. If the captains/players feel they want/need a delay we will do it. DrP has got his team covered so far and won't need one. But it depends on the rest of you.

In the meantime lets try to get in as many turns as we can before then.

Ling, that's your cue. :D

AlgaeNymph

November 22nd, 2009, 05:47 PM

I won't request an extension - but I second and vote-for any extensions anyone else may request :).And I'll third any extensions. ^_^

Squirrelloid

November 22nd, 2009, 06:12 PM

My driving distance is (relatively) short, but it is a holiday. I'd support any requests for a delay.

Septimius Severus

November 23rd, 2009, 12:37 AM

So far support for, and seconds of, but no actual delay requests. Hmm, we shall see. In the meantime, if we can reach turn 20 by Weds I'd be very happy :happy: with all of you (and very shocked :shock:).:D:

GrudgeBringer

November 23rd, 2009, 12:42 AM

I also have relatives coming in and getting to the computer is really not going to be easy. Any extensions would be appreciated.

Lingchih

November 23rd, 2009, 01:35 AM

A Thanksgiving extension is usually granted. Up to four days.

DrPraetorious

November 23rd, 2009, 02:01 AM

Fine, then, I *do* request a Thanksgiving holiday extension :).

Septimius Severus

November 23rd, 2009, 02:27 PM

Argh, ugh, sheesh, oh very well then. Things were just getting interesting. :( Whatever shall I do for fun in the meantime? ;)

Lets us try to get a turn or two in at least. Since Frank is already on the forum, might as well give him a chance to do a turn.
I will institute a delay on Weds I suspect. In other words you'll have as long as you need to get in your turn during the holiday. So no worries.

Septimius Severus

November 24th, 2009, 12:32 PM

Alrighty, lets get one more turn in before the holiday shall we.

Players, don't test my patience. Get your freaking turns in!

Septimius Severus

November 25th, 2009, 12:34 PM

On the current turn we're still waiting for:

lanka
pangaea
sauromatia
tienchi
ulm

Let me take this opportunity to wish those whom it may concern a happy holiday. Enjoy yourselves and while your doing so, I urge you all to take some time to remember our game, your comrades in arms, and your poor admin :bored:. And if you can find the time to tear yourselves away from the festivities :cheers:, grab a turkey leg, find your way to your computer, and get a turn or two in over the holidays.;):D

rdonj

November 25th, 2009, 01:36 PM

Heh, I thought I'd sent my turn in already. Don't worry, my turn will be in shortly.

Septimius Severus

November 27th, 2009, 12:52 PM

I think for the next game(s) I will add the Worthy Heroes Mod to spice things up. Assuming no conflicts with the BI mod or other issues.

Game update:

Well we are still waiting on 2 turns since the game last hosted on Tue Nov 24 05:17:59 PST.

At some point within the next 24 hours I will instruct Gandalf to force host if necessary. We will return to our regular 40 our schedule either when these 2 turns come in or when the force hosting occurs whichever comes first.

chrispedersen

November 27th, 2009, 01:26 PM

Gandalf Parker

November 27th, 2009, 02:36 PM

But today is Coma Day.
The day after Thanksgiving is non-moving, non-thinking, couch-potato time to simply digest and try not to think about the heavy-stress gorilla on the horizon (that next holiday)
just IMHO

Septimius Severus

November 27th, 2009, 02:56 PM

ER,

I think Dr. P's thanksgiving delay request was for the entire T-day holiday - which goest from Thursday - sunday.

Its actually the busiest (iirc) travel holiday in the united states, so many people leaving wednesday will not actually return till sunday night....

I understand the desire for turns.. yet, I don't know if anyone from Algae's team is even reading the forums and/or able to resolve the matter.

Pyg's request was for Tues-Sat. I will/have honored that by the time the next turn hosts. Unless I hear something from Rabbit who has not notified me nor submitted a turn since early Tuesday morning, we will host and/or resume our normal schedule at 12:00 noon Gandalf's time on Saturday.

Edit: So to clarify, we will remain off the timer till that time tommorow regardless of whether TC gets their turn in. That should satisfy all concerned.

Frozen Lama

November 27th, 2009, 04:35 PM

i'd bet that rabbitdynamite just assumed the game was delayed over the holidays, and put it out of his mind. I think its a little tyrannical to stale him like that. just give him till monday. most of the attrition has gone through and i think the remaining players are in it for the long haul, and another day won't hurt

chrispedersen

November 27th, 2009, 06:17 PM

Sept

DrP, Grudge, Immaculate all requested delays. Lingchi noted a delay of up to 4 days was customary, and I don't think the delay was ever explicity stated.

I'll shut up and support ya whenever you tell me to, but otherwise, I'd suggest setting getting involved in a blitz game and waiting on this one till monday = )

Septimius Severus

November 28th, 2009, 01:44 AM

Um, the only explicit/specific delay request I received (with a set time and date) was from Pyg. We stopped the timer on Tuesday at around Noon and we are going to restart the timer on Saturday at around Noon. That is a 4 day delay. I've got to take into account the needs of those not living in the US and/or not celebrating the holiday. I must consider what is fair to all and I think I've been fair.

GrudgeBringer

November 28th, 2009, 05:05 AM

Not to throw fuel on the fire, but most of us think of the 'Thanksgiving Holiday' to begin weds evening and end Sunday evening.

If I hadn't had people in town and staying with me, instead of traveling as usual to stay with them, I would have read the 'extension' to go to Sunday and never giving it another thought.

I agree that most of the normal early game attrition has taken place, and we certainly don't want to run off anyone over a 1 day misunderstanding.

Lets just let everyone get their turn in by Sunday and don't have anyone Stale.

Christmas is coming up and THAT will be another time with folks living and celebrating (or not) in different fashions and times. If we light the fuse now it will explode in another month.

Just my opinion.

Septimius Severus

November 29th, 2009, 02:47 AM

Yep, Wednesday was what I was shooting for, but the hosting timer got shut off a day earlier than I had anticipated. Still no one staled and the turn didn't budge till late Friday night so no problems so far.

Still waiting on:

caelum
kailasa
lanka
mictlan
pangaea
sauromatia
tirnanog

For the current turn. Let's get those turns in.

Squirrelloid

November 29th, 2009, 04:18 AM

Sauromatia here.

I won't be home until late Sunday US Central time. I could potentially submit a turn before i leave to return home, but it would be kind of rushed, and coordinating with allies while having limited time to do turns is kinda hard.

So I'll try to submit sometime after I get home on Sunday, and I hope that's not too terribly inconvenient for people. (If this weren't a team game it would be in already, but team games complicate things).

Stretch

November 29th, 2009, 04:36 AM

Septimius Severus

November 29th, 2009, 05:49 PM

Note that llamaserver appears to be broken right now (and for the last 12 or so hours to my knowledge), and that I'm not sure if turns are getting logged or admin orders are getting read. Turns aren't hosting until it comes back, and I'm not sure what it will do in what order when it gets back.
Thanks for that info Stretch. Luckily our game hosts via the Dom3Minions server so we shouldn't have any issues.

Sauro and Pan, you two are the last to submit but you should have plenty of time left to get in your turns by Sunday night (preferably) or Monday morning.

Septimius Severus

November 30th, 2009, 04:20 PM

Hmm, lets see what we've got:

As of turn 17, 33 provinces were still in the hands of the AI Team, but that number appears to be dropping.

7 Independents left, wonder where they are?

No need to thank and praise me for this info. This information is being provided free of charge as a service by your kind, caring, considerate, admin. I am too humble to accept such praise anyway.:D

Now, get those turns in!

rdonj

November 30th, 2009, 04:50 PM

A few of them are about to become mine. I had a number of units tied up clearing an AI out of my corner that are free now to finish taking the few indies left behind my lines.

Gandalf Parker

December 2nd, 2009, 12:38 PM

This seems like a good place to drop this..
http://www.scriblink.com/

Team Captains might want to play with it. Let me know your impressions please.
Its a WhiteBoard. So far its the simplest I have found which allows (A) uploading an image and (B) saving the board to an URL you can give out. This should allow a team to upload the map image and scribble on it.

Its one of my jobs to have an idea of whats available and for wht purposes. And altho I dont work for Shrapnel anymore I will probably make a recommendation to them to upgrade the CHAT we have on this forum to some sort of a WhiteBoard. Possibly with VoIP abilities also (voice chat). It just seems a good idea for a strategy wargames company that has team games.

chrispedersen

December 2nd, 2009, 01:09 PM

Septimius Severus

December 2nd, 2009, 01:16 PM

Well, Gandalf, a very intriguing solution. This may eliminate the need to constantly edit and upload new map images every time the strategic situation changes and the website appears to allow online chat as well. You do need to turn off pop-up blockers at least temporarily it seems to upload the image and/or possibly use other functions. But seems very good. Wonder what the Captains and/or everyone else thinks of this? This may be a good tool/link to incorporate for our current and/or future games.

Gandalf Parker

December 2nd, 2009, 01:22 PM

Wanted to say thanks again for a great resource gandalf. Setting up the game, coding the ais.. everything.

Well I appreciate that. :)
But you might want to hold off thanking me for the AIs. Game 2 will have harder ones. And Game 3 will release all limitations on what I can do them them. MUHAhahahahahaha (evil laugh) :evil:

chrispedersen

December 2nd, 2009, 02:14 PM

Oh good these ones are far too easy. Not your fault.. just the limits of what AI intelligence can do.

All the might in the world matters not a whit if you have the disposition of a flea.

Immaculate

December 2nd, 2009, 04:42 PM

I'm not finding it easy at all; in fact i'm having a bit of difficulty with the pretender of one of the AIs.

I.

Septimius Severus

December 3rd, 2009, 02:16 AM

I'm not finding it easy at all; in fact i'm having a bit of difficulty with the pretender of one of the AIs.

I.

The secondary AI starts (in this game the AIs in the corners) are/were intended to be able to be handled by noobs (will need to fix their expansion issues for next game though) while the primary AI starts (in the center) are/were intended to provide a little bit more challenge.

Assuming everyone went with default placement and the captain and lieutenant of every human team were played by vets and intermediate level players, or by two intermediate level players, the difficulty level should be reasonable. Things on your team are/were a bit different with 3 noobs, and yourself being placed in the number 2 slot, putting you more at risk and closer to the harder center AIs.

Of course the corner AIs locations could draw on the magic/gem/slave/gold pool of the center and flying pretenders can get around anyway, but I am assuming you are not talking about the corner AI starts in general.

You are very industrious and scrappy for a noob though, and the game was meant in part to provide an AI challenge for noobs, so I guess we have accomplished our goals at least in part. ;)

rdonj

December 3rd, 2009, 03:30 AM

Yeah, my corner AI decided to summon summer lions at me. That they did so in the first year gave me a bit of a shock initially.

Gandalf Parker

December 3rd, 2009, 10:35 AM

I would love to lay out the entire plan for scaling-up the AI. Im so very tempted.
But since Septimius put out some on the Game 1 AI I will also just for this initial one.

I figured that for a noobs game with vets, on a scale of 1 to 10, I should shoot for about a 4 in game one. Better than the randomized AI of the vanilla game that I figured noobs had already had experience against. But only about as improved as an average player could make it. The AIs in this game are built off of pretender builds recommended in those nations game guides that have been posted. So basically this was the AI playing Human Player styled builds. Better than crap, but not optimized for AI use.

As Septimius alluded to, the central castles were "expanding". The corners were lab/temple mages and priests. Not very expansive early on but not something you want to leave in operation for too long. You wont have that split in game two helping you simplify tactics. :)

Note: If you found this AI an improvement in the game, this level of AI was fairly common for the SemiRand program which can do the same thing for all your games.

Septimius Severus

December 4th, 2009, 01:31 PM

I've received a request for a 12 hour extension by Agema and have asked Gandalf to implement it. Hopefully all of it will not need to used though.

Septimius Severus

December 5th, 2009, 03:42 AM

For those that may not be aware and for our loyal NaV fans, a war :fight: has broken out between Deva's Darlings and The Mysterios.

It is a time of woe. The unprovoked, savage, and dastardly aggression of the evil Devas :evil: against the peace loving Mysterios :angel has shocked and stunned the whole of the world even the leaders of the AI team.

When Mali of C'tis learned of these cowardly attacks, he had this to say: "The Devas must be destroyed!"

Riora of Agartha chimed in adding "The Devan juggernaut of destruction represents a threat to all nations. They are public enemy #1 and must be resisted at all costs by humans and non-humans alike!"

Our noble Captain has vowed that we shall not go into the abyss quietly nor become slaves to their brutal :tough: slay-o-matic machine. :D

Maerlande

December 6th, 2009, 02:19 PM

What's going on with the server? Last night I checked and there was 21 hours till timer up. This morning I checked and I had a stale. I see that a total of 3 people staled. Also the timer now shows 47 hours. Looks like we have a bad turn. I think we deserve a roll back due to the server error.

chrispedersen

December 6th, 2009, 02:40 PM

Without looking at the turn, I have to admit I was surprised as well.

I know that when I went to bed there was 16 hours remaining, and 7 people (or so) had not submitted turns. When I woke up 6 or 8 hours later - the turn had hosted.

I suspect that what happened is that the previous turn had an extension, causing this turn to run long; and an acmin subtracted time.

Regardless if one of my nations were affected or not, I support a roll back.

However, I would *really* like it if only the nations that did not submit a turn were allowed to do so.

Also, SS or M, could you fix the first post? The staling dating and results don't work.

Septimius Severus

December 6th, 2009, 06:00 PM

Well, Gandalf had not removed the extra 12 hours from the previous turn. I had decided I would not bother Gandalf about it though I admit I was getting a bit irritated when it looked like people were taking advantage of the extra 12 hours, can't blame them though. Either Gandalf took out the extra time or the server did something on its own causing those 3 people (Lanka, Kailasa, and Caelum) still outstanding to stale apparently.

Though it could be argued that everyone had sufficient time since the real hosting would have taken place at 8 AM PST (5 AM est), it could also be argued that people were going based upon what they saw. Therefore, I will leave it to the discretion of Gandalf if we wants to do a rollback or not. I agree with Chris, if it is done only those 3 people need to resubmit, and I will ask that they get their turns in with all do haste. Last time I put 16 hours on the clock for this to take place, this time I think 8 might be reasonable and fair. I am sure people won't want any longer delays than necessary. I am forwarding a copy of this post to Gandalf for his review.

Gandalf Parker

December 6th, 2009, 06:20 PM

Rolling back the game is simply unzipping the game save into the game directory.

BUT then it also means cancelling the timers, re-computing the time, and starting new timers. I dont know where that failed last time but its probably in there someplace. Do we want to do that again?

Septimius Severus

December 6th, 2009, 06:59 PM

The failure to reset the displayed hosting timer rests with me to some degree, as I didn't want to bother reminding Gandalf to do it, especially since we were moving to 48 this turn anyway. I also assumed that Gandalf would remember to remove it. That could be considered partly my fault since I have overall responsiblity. I have the feeling people tend to view me as rather harsh and tough on time and turns anyway and I hate to reinforce this.

It is evident though that at least 40 hours did elapse before the turn hosted. I am biased of course in this decision as two of my teammates are among the 3 that staled. That is why I have asked Gandalf to use his discretion.

I want to be fair, even if it means a decision that is not favorable to my team. We do need to get going one way or the other soon. In the absence of a decision by Gandalf or objections (and as much as I may dislike rollbacks myself) I will order a rollback be commenced immediately, all turns already submitted retained, 8 hours put on the clock,and the 3 staled to get their turns in. After that 8 hours is up, we move forward one way or another and proceed at our regularly scheduled 48 hour host.

Gandalf Parker

December 6th, 2009, 07:20 PM

OK the files from just before last hosting have been unpacked

Frozen Lama

December 6th, 2009, 07:21 PM

the flaw to your logic sept- no sane person counts in their head how many hours have [I]passed[I]since the turn hosted. we just look at the timer, see if we have time to do it tomorrrow, and go to sleep. if the server hosts before the timer indicated it was supposed to, it is in no way anyones fault, and we deserve a rollback

Septimius Severus

December 6th, 2009, 07:29 PM

I understand that Frozen, as I have stated above. We admins goofed up, the players are not to blame really, if given extra time people will take it, I have always known that. I do want to not delay things any longer than necessary for those that did get their turns in.

Gandalf is rolling back, 8 hours should be enough for turns that are already/should already be done. Lanka, Kailasa, Caelum, please get your turns in. After this we go back to our normal schedule. Everyone else sit tight. I will check back in tonight and I will send personal e-mails to all those who have staled.

Frozen Lama

December 6th, 2009, 07:36 PM

I was just curious as to why there was any discussion at all about whether we would roll back or not

Illuminated One

December 6th, 2009, 07:42 PM

Are you sure you have the right turn for a rollback from me?
I'm pretty sure what you have is the file for the next turn, I've sent one for turn 20 now.

chrispedersen

December 6th, 2009, 07:44 PM

Frozen -its a tough position for an admin to be in, taking an action that primarily benefits his team, especially as SS is always wanting to push forward.

But even though y'all are kicking the rest of us .. I still support the roll back ..

AlgaeNymph

December 6th, 2009, 07:56 PM

I would like to second a rollback as well.

DrPraetorious

December 6th, 2009, 08:01 PM

How many people staled?

My only issue with a rollback is that they tend to breed bugs, especially with newbie players who don't know to redo their turns from scratch.

Also, I got some *awesome* events which I'm not happy to lose.

Septimius Severus

December 6th, 2009, 08:05 PM

3 people staled, the rollback has already been completed, only waiting for Agema apparently, everyone else is good. No one else except for Kailasa, Caelum, and Lanka, NEEDS to resubmit turn 20.

Noobs, and anyone else, unless you are one of the three sit tight, and wait for a new turn 21 to be sent to you. :D

Thanks for your cooperation and patience.

DrPraetorious

December 6th, 2009, 08:20 PM

Does this mean that Kailasa and Lanka have seen the new turn? I know that Illum has.

If *anyone* has seen their new turn, then *everyone* needs to be given at least 12 hours to make changes to their old turns!

Maerlande

December 6th, 2009, 08:26 PM

Well, I didn't look at my turn after the stale message. Also, I repeated my orders exactly as I had done them before. I did not submit while waiting for any more discussion amongst our team.

To reiterate, I did nothing different than I had before the stale. I just redid the turn exactly the same.

Maer

Septimius Severus

December 6th, 2009, 08:33 PM

Correct my friends, whenever there is a rollback there is opportunity for cheating. I am counting on all of you to remain as ethical as your admin. There is no ethical reason to change or redo your turn that I know of.

Edit:

And why would someone have to redo their turn from scratch? Your orders have not changed, the server will still see your turn as turn 20. Every rollback that I have participated in I didn't bother to redo my turns from scratch, I just resubmitted them, including the previous rollback in this game. No adverse effects were noted, my orders were followed.

Illuminated One

December 6th, 2009, 09:10 PM

Well, I have no other chance than to play the turn with what I know from the last turn. It's been so quiet I know nothing though. :dk:

DrPraetorious

December 6th, 2009, 09:13 PM

Suppose that Illum. had not staled, and that he had attacked one of Kailasa's provinces. We do a rollback, Kailasa has seen the stale turn, Kailasa now knows where Illum is attacking!

This is bad enough, but Illum. at least needs the *chance* to change his target.

So if the people who staled have seen their turns before doing the new turns, everyone should have a chance to redo. Otherwise we have no guarantee that the stalers haven't seen the next turn before making decisions.

Maerlande

December 6th, 2009, 11:10 PM

How could I possibly know Illuminated's target if he staled? He staled so he obviously didn't attack anyone and I clearly can't tell from the turn I didn't look at. Your example is a bit sketchy DrP. Since Caelum and I both staled and we are aggressively fighting each other seems like a simple roll back of just the stalers is just fine.

That doesn't account for Lanka, but you didn't use that as an example and Lanka is a fair way from your team generally.

rdonj

December 6th, 2009, 11:19 PM

Suppose that Illum. had not staled...

Sounds like you misread that bit.

Maerlande

December 6th, 2009, 11:36 PM

Yup. Sorry DrP. I misread.

Septimius Severus

December 7th, 2009, 02:49 AM

Generally, if you are not involved in an active war with another player it usually doesn't hurt if you've seen the next turns actions. However, as I stated before nobody should have any reason for redoing a turn including those that staled.

Furthermore, no one except for the 3 who staled should be taking advantage of this opportunity to "rethink" or "redo" a turn.

I have the following information:

early_arcoscephale.2h 2009-12-06 19:24:23 2h file is OK!
early_niefelheim.2h 2009-12-06 19:55:44 2h file is OK!
early_pangaea.2h 2009-12-06 21:05:25 2h file is OK!

Aside from Caelum and Kailasa, who should be resubmitting their turns, the above 3 people have resubmited their turn files. I can't stop people from doing this since I am not the host, but I can replace these three turns with the originals myself to keep things as fair as possible. If you've an issue with it take it up with me.

Septimius Severus

December 7th, 2009, 03:39 AM

I do not know what has happened with Agema.

Frozen Lama

December 7th, 2009, 03:43 AM

maybe he's like me. after i go to bed, i usually don't see the forums again for ~15 hours or so

Septimius Severus

December 7th, 2009, 03:51 AM

I have decided to submit Agema's turn, to keep things moving along. Though I knew there might be a risk of key violations, we were lucky and no one staled. It has been now over 60 hours, since the original turn hosted, if we were going to hear from Agema, we would have heard something by now. I am dispatching an e-mail to Gandalf to reset our hosting interval to 48 hours and fix the displayed timer ASAP for the current turn. We move forward. Again, if anyone has an issue with these actions of mine, take it up with me via PM, that is your right.

rdonj

December 7th, 2009, 04:12 AM

Sept, did you undo everyone's newly-submitted turns or not? Because I clearly saw a player do things differently this time around and I want to be sure whether everyone who submitted a new turn was allowed to or not.

Septimius Severus

December 7th, 2009, 04:19 AM

I undid those three turns which I could undo. I could not undo the three who had staled because I did not have their original 2h files to resubmit. I was counting on those 3 (actually only 2, since I took no actions for Lanka myself) to adhere to an ethical code, if they did not, I cannot do anything about it really aside from booting players, and I am sure we don't want that.

So to clarify, it was clear to me that Arco, Pangaea, and Neifel, who SHOULD NOT have resubmitted turn files for the rollback, did so and may have used the forknowledge of the new turn to alter their actions. To keep things as fair as possible I did the only thing I could do to try to arrest any cheating. I resubmitted the original .2h files for those 3. However, I could do nothing about the 3 who staled originally (or 2 rather since I played Lanka), because since they staled, they did not have any 2h files in the backup archive for me to resubmit.

Rollbacks are very problematic and it is especially so if people do not adhere to an ethical code. Personally, I never look at any new turns when a rollback happens. But that is just me.

rdonj

December 7th, 2009, 04:36 AM

The player in question was not one of the staling players. I am not suggesting any sort of action against them, I would rather just move forward with the game. But a non-staling player redid their turn and benefitted from it, and I am not particularly thrilled about it since other players did not get that luxury. Thankfully the player in question does not appear to be fighting other players, or this could have gotten ugly.

Let us please endeavor to avoid rollbacks unless there is a serious, game threatening bug. They are just too dramatic otherwise and have too much potential for abuse.