Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. Game Over. Supplicants Triumph!

[Septimius Severus]

Does anyone know how I can get notifications e-mailed to me in the NaV forum (not this forum, the one for NaV)? I can subscribe to a thread easily enough but I haven't found anything like a 'notify me of comments in subscribed threads' button in my user control panel.

Hello Algae, when you subscribe you're supposed to me notified by e-mail of new postings or replies to your posts in the thread. You can also subscribe to the whole team forum as well which should subscribe you to all threads. (Let me know if the e-mail notification system is working for you, I'm not %100 percent sure on it).

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A number of things teams should be doing while we await the completion of the AI and final testing:

1. Determine who is playing whom (let all of us know)
2. Decide who is in front, rear, left, right, etc (let me know via PM) if different from default.
3. Design your pretenders using your available choices following the path limits (password protect your pretender file, decide if your going to use individual passwords or a common team password).
4. Consult guides, run test games, etc.
5. Captains, make sure all team members are communicating and make any last minute roster changes. Look for advisors/alternates if needed.
6. Chris, see my PM for guidelines regarding your special pretender.

Hope to begin by May 8th.

[DrPraetorious]

I believe we want:
Pangaea - pyg - Front/Lower
Abysia - 13lackGu4rd - Rear/Lower
Vanheim - DrPraetorious - Rear/Higher
Jotunheim - Stagger Lee - Front / Higher

[pyg]

Can I be your special pretender Chris?

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2619/lipspyg.jpg

[DrPraetorious]

I do have a Demon Boar pretender that I did (based on the one from Princess Mononoke) which Pyg should totally be allowed to use. I think it's in my Carthacia mod - I believe it ships with no paths but we can put B on it.

[ano]

Hope to begin by May 8th.
I believe by May, 8th I'll forget every single thing I've been thinking of :). Nice method ;)

[AlgaeNymph]

Let me know if the e-mail notification system is working for you, I'm not %100 percent sure on it,It isn't, that's the problem.

[Maerlande]

Can I be your special pretender Chris?

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2619/lipspyg.jpg

No but you can pretend to be my special roman friend.

[Maerlande]

Sounds to me like you need a new mod nation: Pygaea

[pyg]

I do have a Demon Boar pretender that I did (based on the one from Princess Mononoke) which Pyg should totally be allowed to use. I think it's in my Carthacia mod - I believe it ships with no paths but we can put B on it.

Flavor text should include references to red lipstick! Come on, what is this world without role playing?

[Maerlande]

More like DemonBore! What a sombre thought.

[Septimius Severus]

I believe we want:
Pangaea - pyg - Front/Lower
Abysia - 13lackGu4rd - Rear/Lower
Vanheim - DrPraetorious - Rear/Higher
Jotunheim - Stagger Lee - Front / Higher

Thanks for that Info, was hoping you'd keep that specific positioning info private, but hey whatever you want.

[Septimius Severus]

Let me know if the e-mail notification system is working for you, I'm not %100 percent sure on it,It isn't, that's the problem.

You know I could never get it to work for me either for some reason. I think it's gone the way of the attachment functionality, but I haven't fully explored the user control panel yet. Might be some setting that either I or you have overlooked. ;)

[Septimius Severus]

I do have a Demon Boar pretender that I did (based on the one from Princess Mononoke) which Pyg should totally be allowed to use. I think it's in my Carthacia mod - I believe it ships with no paths but we can put B on it.

I think it best to stick with standard pretenders for this game (Chris' pretender will be one of those already available to his team, so it is not special except that is not normally available to Mictlan). You still have the same option as Chris though if you desire.

Next game we can look into a mod that perhaps 1. Makes all of a teams pretenders available to all the nations of a team and/or 2. Adds some special ones to each team. You might even be able to design your own unique pretenders. ;)

If someone wants to volunteer to do number 1 above in the interim though, I'd be fine with that (I may not have the time myself). I think Chris volunteered to do it for the Dr's team and his own. Problem is our god Crom might be angered if we don't have the same opportunity. :D Though we can probably work with what we got.

[DrPraetorious]

I can make all of the pretenders for each team available to *everyone*; and then we'd have to police people to make sure they took pretenders from their list as normal.

But make a decision on such a mod, like, *right now* because no-one wants to delay the game any further, I'm sure!

[Cammorak]

Thanks DrP! That'll be a great addition and hopefully no one will be a jerk. And if they are, well, it'll be fairly obvious, I think.

[ano]

Eh, while this sounds good, I don't think it is the correct time for it now. Even more waiting is a pain, also, the strategies need to be adjusted to the new possibilities which also takes time and so we will never start. I think this issue should have been raised about a week or two ago but Sept clearly stated that he is against any mods outside the declared ones.

[DrPraetorious]

I agree with Ano; if I hadn't been unavailable last week this might've been workable but at this point we all have pretenders designed so we should just start.

[Septimius Severus]

Heh. Ano let me say first, good work by you and yours in getting everything organized. You were way ahead of other teams in reporting whose playing who, getting your positioning in, and general planning it seems. Good to see the enthusiasm. I know you are very methodical and exhaustive in your planning.

At this point we do want to minimize any further delays other than the necessary one for the AI creation which Gandalf is working on completing right now. The fastest way to do that is for everyone to work with the pretenders they have available to their team.

At the same time, however I feel guilty about the limited choices for Van, Jotun, Mictlan, and perhapss Abysia. If a comprehensive mod making all of a teams pretender choices available to every nation on a team can be done (it would have to be for every team to insure fairness) fairly quickly (say by tommorow), I am not completely against it either. As long as the additional pretenders can be added with their standard paths and domstrength and made available via the pretender design screen, there's not much policing that will need to be done (the in game design screen should enforce pretender point requirements, you'd just need to enable the mod and these extra choices should be there).

There are however, considerations though that Ano and DrP pointed out. How would such a mod affect overall balance and strategic planning at this stage? If the Sanguinarium for instance could now take 4 molochs, instead of a moloch, 2 green dragons, and whatever else would anyone really complain? I know I really don't care. Children of Crom wouldn't mind a great mother for Ashdod, but we can work with what we have as well.

So basically, what I'm saying is that if it can be done quickly and applying to all teams (for fairness), I am not totally against it. If not, though, it is easier and quicker to go the .map edit route for a single exception since I seem to be unable to convince Chris to stick with the Blue Dragon or Oracle for Mictlan. :D

[rdonj]

My advice is to just move on for now, and not worry about this until the next one. New pretenders invites yet more quibbling over various design things. Push onward! This game has taken quite long enough to start.

[Cammorak]

Good points on the timeliness. It would be nice, but I know I'll be out of computer reach for a week in June, so I'm not sure it's worth delays. I'd rather have the early game done by the time that absence rolls around.

[chrispedersen]

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#description "NVVv2"
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[chrispedersen]

Well, if I didn't screw it up too bad, the above mod would restrict and allow all usurpers pretenders to usurper nations, and all sanguinarium pretenders to sanguinarium nations.

Please do look at it.. it seems to work on my machine - but I am not an expert modder, by any means.


I don't object to doing the other nations, however, I am a bit squeamish on the Forge Lord, and the FOB, for balance reasons. Even better if someone else does the other two nations.

Two of DrP's team members, had only one pretender choice, two other individuals had two choices, and three others had 4 or less.

[Septimius Severus]

Well, if I didn't screw it up too bad, the above mod would restrict and allow all usurpers pretenders to usurper nations, and all sanguinarium pretenders to sanguinarium nations.

Please do look at it.. it seems to work on my machine - but I am not an expert modder, by any means.


I don't object to doing the other nations, however, I am a bit squeamish on the Forge Lord, and the FOB, for balance reasons. Even better if someone else does the other two nations.

Two of DrP's team members, had only one pretender choice, two other individuals had two choices, and three others had 4 or less.

First, Chris, let me thank you for the time and effort you put into the above. If something like this is used either in this game or the next, it should apply to all teams and nations equally. We don't want to get to quibbling as rdonj pointed out. Children of Crom and the Supplicants would also need the same access to all their pretenders (it would probably be less work though since many of our gods are already available to most of our nations).

Not sure what you mean about the Forge Lord (it is already available to all four of COC's nations). Regarding the Fountain of blood, I assume you already made it available to all the Sangiunarium team's nation in the above code. I don't know much about it, other than it has a strong fear ability +15 and a very good native dom strength, but it is also immobile. Never really played with it. I doubt DrP would take 4 of them anyway if he wants a mobile SC or two. Could be limited to a max of two (though that sorta goes against the spirit of the mod) I guess. Sorta makes me glad there's no Gorgon available. :)

The opinion on the thread seemed to be against a mod at this late stage, but if the rest of it can be completed quickly so that every team gets all their choices, and if people want to use it, as I said, I am not opposed. Provided there's no quibbling or arguing.

[Tonno]

Hello every one...
I am new in this forums and new in Dom3 online...

I see u have some games running (for noobs and vets),and I made some chat with ppl about the game and how game works...And I would realy like to join comunity...

[Wrana]

I also think that it would be better to start now and worry about the proper Pretender mod later.
8th is OK for me, by the way - Pretender is practically ready and eager for some infidel-smashing! :D

[ano]

Sorry for not answering but I just don't really know what to answer. If making the mod doesn't slow us down, so be it. But I strongly doubt it will not slow us down. There was a lot of time for everything. If you look at the Supplicants' topic at the NaV forums, you'll notice that the last post was long ago. That's because everything was discussed and decided 10 days ago and it is obvious, I believe, that the more we wait, the more people lose their enthusiasm and forget what they thought of and what they planned.
My vote is for "let's start ASAP"

[13lackGu4rd]

yeah, about that, is this game ever gonna start or we can just bury it and let it rest in peace...?

[Wrana]

Hello every one...
I am new in this forums and new in Dom3 online...

I see u have some games running (for noobs and vets),and I made some chat with ppl about the game and how game works...And I would realy like to join comunity...

Welcome aboard! But you've probably seen that the current game is more-or less full. So you may have to wait while somebody steps down (maybe not long if we get another bout of discussion).
I'd advise you to look at some other newby-oriented game by the time - it will probably start sooner. ;)

[Septimius Severus]

Hello every one...
I am new in this forums and new in Dom3 online...

I see u have some games running (for noobs and vets),and I made some chat with ppl about the game and how game works...And I would realy like to join comunity...

Welcome Tonno. We have still have room for 7 alternates, and I will be glad to have you on our team (Children of Crom) in that capacity for the moment (you'll be privy to our discussions, can look at turns (with permission of course), and can take a more active role if you desire as indicated on our main post.

Please logon to our team forums using the link below and I'll register you ASAP:

http://noobsvets.silverforum.net/

[DrPraetorious]

I agree with blackguard and ano - no-one has ideal pretender choices and the game isn't scrupulously fair, but let's just start. It's too late in the cycle to add that mod.

[Septimius Severus]

Regarding the mod, basically Chris says he can have the whole thing done in less than 24 hours if Ano and DrP say yes. You know I am fine with it, if it can be done in that time frame. Probably won't change my pretender choice really though, but it might benefit others.

[DrPraetorious]

It would change ours significantly and this boat has already sailed. If we can't just start with the rules we have I'll have to bow out until the next game.

[ano]

DrPraetorious
Me too

[Septimius Severus]

It would change ours significantly and this boat has already sailed. If we can't just start with the rules we have I'll have to bow out until the next game.

Very well, as I said, it won't happen without yours and Ano's agreement. The opportunity has been offered and we thank Chris for his efforts which may be of assistance to me in the next game.

[chrispedersen]

Due to circumstances beyond my control.. I am without access to a computer. I have asked a few players to substitute in some of my positions.

However, I don't think it would be wise of me to commit to captaining a team at this time, and I don't see this getting resolved in less than a week.

I know that that people want to start - and that the game has been delayed. So I am completely ok with starting the game without me.

I'm really sorry to throw such a curve to the players, to my team, and especially my teammates.

[chrispedersen]

update:

Sept, squirrel has volunteered to helm the usurpers, in my absence. Please hide the women and children, and give him access to the forums.

[Squirrelloid]

Since I seem to be subbing for Chris while his team gets going...

As the usurpers have *very* poor pretender suggestions, I'd really like to restrict this to unlimited in your theme paths, 3 everywhere else.
Chris, I already said what I think regarding this. I am sure that S9W9 mictlan will be a balance-breaker in this game so while I don't mind it in general, I do mind it for Mictlan. If Mictlan is restricted to, say, W6S9, or just W9, I'm fine with it.
And regarding overall balance, while your team may not have the best starting conditions (although expansion possibilities are absolutely ok), you have simply fantastic perspectives from many good national summons, battle magics, communions etc and while I see the point in strengthening Children or Sanginarium, I am sure that your team has no need for further strengthening.

This is hilarious. *MA Mictlan*, the one with mere eagle warriors everywhere and no native blood magic, could be *unbalancing*. And so says the person captaining the team with *Shinuyama* and *Ermor*. Serious WTF. So yes, lets specially and specifically restrict the 'bad' Mictlan to make them even worse. Its not even worth playing with eagle warriors if you can't double major bless them (and even then, they really want a minor blood blessing or something in addition to that).

Whatever, I'm only going to be here briefly to get this going. I'm sure I'll find something that works for initial expansion. But Ano's argument here is ridiculous, and I can't actually believe he convinced anyone with it. (Also, this is going to force the 'unthematic' need to break into blood to have units even worth using which can be acquired somewhere other than the capital.)

[Tonno]

Hello to every one...I am a little late in discussion,but if u are arguing about the patches for mictlan,my opinion is that this game (Dom3) never needed patches,I know that there where some bad sides and a lot of bugs but I have always considered patches unnecessary...So why to use patches but only due to new map:confused:

And this game still did not started,I thought the game is running allready...
PS
Theam Sanguinarium will win...:(

[ano]

But Ano's argument here is ridiculous, and I can't actually believe he convinced anyone with it.
Well, you may say it's ridiculous or whatever but allowing one team to have a super-bless (or two) while other have no even theoretical access to it IS imbalancing. And regarding "bad" Mictlan, I may prove you any time of the day that it is one of the strongest nations of the era. Yes, as well as Shinuyama and Ermor. And Pythium.

I'm glad to see you in and not glad to see Chris out. Hope he will return and help you later.

[Tonno]

It is possible,I am not so experienced in PvP mode,but i allways considerd abysa and pangena the strongest nations...
Ok for pythium I would understand that thay are storng,I was playing with them first few months of my playing...but why ermor(in early age perhaps)...:confused:
And what is IS???

Sorry for so much questions but I am realy stubborn,and I am preaty slow on much things...:D

[ano]

Ermor - because all their priests reanimate undead, hordes of undead.
Shinuyama - because of diverse and powerful magic and good troops
Mitclan - because of good troops and great mobility, good magic, flying communions, good summons and other things.

By the way, I think that Mictlan should break into blood, be it unthematic or not. As well as Bandar Log. Or at least one of them. To both nations blood gives simply great summons and for Mictlan - cheap blood hunters as well. This is how I would play if I were in Usurpers team, most probably.

[Septimius Severus]

I am sorry to hear about the personal difficulties with Chris. I wish him the best and hope to see him back on shortly.

Squirrel welcome. I assume as you said you'll be serving as acting Captain. Sign onto our team forums (if I don't already have you registered) and I'll get you squared away. The usurpers also have an alternate as well, in case you guys want to pursue another option, be it captain wise or what have you. I am moving Chris to one of the alternate slots for the Usurpers in the meantime (in the expectation that he will come back into the fray, he could also serve as advisor if necessary). Please aquaint yourself with the rest of the team, and the files on the main post, particularly the teams and themes.pdf which outlines the pretender choices and initial path limits for pretenders. Usurper pretenders may take up to level 3 in blood during design if they wish.

[ano]

3 blood is more than enough. Blood-oriented strategy, however, conflicts with bless strategy or dominion scales need to be greatly sacrificed

[Septimius Severus]

Tonno glad to see you active and always feel free to ask questions if you have them.

Tonno and Numahr. As alternates, you guys have full access to your team forums. You may also be able to examine or view turns for your team. Feel free to provide input and ask questions of team mates so that you can learn as much as possible. You are sort of on the team's bench, so to speak. and should have priority if a playing position opens up and will usually come in to sub for other members of your team if needed.

You can also take a more active role if you desire in the interim. Alternates or advisors can handle a team's diplomacy with other teams and dealings with the merc if the they want. You may also engage in other activites relating to intelligence gathering/espionage, and other fun stuff (explained on the opening post).

Have fun.

Usurpers, I will need to hear from you (depending upon how soon your ready to start) who is playing whom, and if you have any positioning info you like to convey to me via PM, please let me have that info as well. Thanks.

Edit: Actually I think I will move Chris into the Advisor position for his team, with the option to return to the captaincy.

Squirrel, your good to go on the team forums.

[Squirrelloid]

Ermor - because all their priests reanimate undead, hordes of undead.
Shinuyama - because of diverse and powerful magic and good troops
Mitclan - because of good troops and great mobility, good magic, flying communions, good summons and other things.

By the way, I think that Mictlan should break into blood, be it unthematic or not. As well as Bandar Log. Or at least one of them. To both nations blood gives simply great summons and for Mictlan - cheap blood hunters as well. This is how I would play if I were in Usurpers team, most probably.

MA Mictlan is consideredably weaker than MA Ermor or Shinuyama even without pretender restrictions. Their magic isn't that good compared to other ages (lose blood from all their mages relative to other ages without any replacement, and they don't get much cheaper despite that, if at all), and only two cap-only mages fly. No one would accuse MA Mictlan of being good without a big bless - it is a pale shadow of the other ages.

Ermor, on the other hand, while it can use a big bless for its sacreds, only really needs piles and piles of animate undead. It has legionary troops for expansion, and will field armies of thousands of longdead horsemen (which incidentally, breaks the battlefield in a number of way).

Shinuyama doesn't even have any need for a bless to be awesome. It wants virtually pure scales.

[Tonno]

So as a alternative I will be some kind of a spectator for my team,but how will I be able to come to game if i do not play with nation...?

And one more problem,as a possible replacement for some player,I think that is a terrible idea,I play well against pc and my 4 friends (I do not have 4 friends,I have more :D:D) that played Dom3 with me...
So if I ever get in as a substitute,I will just follow orders...:p



And no offense,I think mitacal,ermor and shinuyama still sucks,good player of abysya or pangena can take them down with no problems...(my opinion)
Septimius u play with argatah-are thay like the weekest in mid age...?

[Septimius Severus]

Hey Tonno. See my posts on our team forum.

As an alternate, if you need to come into the game, you should be able to come in just like subs do via PBEM. So if for instance Cammorak can't play for a little while, you will take over the nation. We all know things in life can get in the way, having good friends or trustworthy people ready to help out, lined up in advance makes sense. Don't worry Tonno, our team will help you all you need. And while your waiting, alternates can get involved in diplomacy or what have you if they desire. You'll learn a lot by reading the team forums particularly about planning and strategy.

I have never played with Agartha in my life. They are slow in the beginning apparently, but if played correctly, they can be great just like any nation.

Will DrP, Ano, and Squirrel/Chris attempt to spank us? Will they anger Crom? I hope they won't be that foolish. But I know they will be tempted. I say Tonno, let us teach them good, so that they learn their place. So that they avert their eyes when they come into our presence and make obeisance. :)

[Squirrelloid]

Yo team Usurper. There's new content on our forum, check it out. Make comments. Let me know you're alive. That sort of thing.

[Cammorak]

Sept's post is surprisingly telling as I will be out of town the first week in June and will not have access to the tubes. Just so everyone knows.

[ano]

Perhaps, someone from your team can play for you then?

[Cammorak]

Oh, yeah, that's what I assumed. Just seemed topical since Sept posted about Tonno taking over for someone in an absence.

[DrPraetorious]

Unfortunately, the timing of the game is kinda difficult for my team - various stuff has come up but there appears to be a unanimous desire to drop from the game :(.

Sorry to jerk everyone around; I'd be available as an advisor if needed, although not so much for the next few weeks.

Good luck and have fun!

[Septimius Severus]

Well this is not good news on the eve of getting started. You guys have all those posts and stategies already planned. Who in your group wants to remain on the team, I can fill the slots with the alternates from the other teams who want to get in a starting position, and or anyone else who wants to change sides.

[13lackGu4rd]

Sept, the problem is that this "eve of getting started" has been going on for more than 3 weeks now... we're just too fed up with the turtle crawl of this game. we wanted to have a nice team game, seemed like a nice experience, but when decisions that should have been decided on before you hosted the game have still not been decided, and are now being rushed in order to finally start already, than it was poor planning on your part, which lead to this never ending bureaucracy that threatens to bring down this game altogether, as it's not just our team that is getting fed up with it...

was a good attempt, maybe next time if you do the planning before hand you can actually afford to start faster, as soon as all player+captain slots are filled and not wait even more to all of a sudden discuss allowed pretenders, the final game mod, etc, than you will get a good concept game rolling again. I'm afraid it's too late for this 1...

[Septimius Severus]

I am sorry that you can't wait a day or two more for Gandalf to finish the AIs. There is always an AI creation phase in my games.You guys have put so much effort into your planning and strategizing to throw things away because of it. Most of the waiting time has been for recruitment purposes, but I've never been in a rush in my games. I knew we would get all the slots filled and we did. To back out now, seems a waste for your team and for the other players in general.

But if you, Ano's team, or anyone else wants to go, I won't hold ya. If that happens, rather than me scraping a concept which took months of planning already, I will simply implement the full mod chris has kindly spent time working on and once we have enough people we will start.

[13lackGu4rd]

you see, a few days ago it was which pretenders to allow or not, now it's AI creation(which could and should have been done before you hosted the game as it is not player dependent) tomorrow it will be something else, and of course the decision on pretenders(which was rushed) will be discussed again now that you've got even more time, and it will go on and on...

now, I didn't enter this game in a rush, and frankly, I'm still not in a rush, but I've received PMs from my entire team that they are already impatient and want to drop out as a team and I agreed with them, as it does take way too long to get this game rolling. a friendly tip, for your next game, finish all the non player dependent stuff before you announce the game, this includes: map, mods, AIs, nations of each team, etc. so than you just wait for players to fill up all the slots and you're ready to rumble. we've had all slots full for at least a week, probably more now, yet we're still stuck in the never ending creation phase, which is why I keep saying it was bad planning on your part. also, it's not only our team that is growing impatient, look at several posts in this very thread from people on different teams, they've also finished planning their strategies weeks ago and are already impatient, and I'm sure that after our team left as a whole that those others would also follow. which is why I suggest you start over, and with better planning this time.

anyway, good luck with this game, if it will ever lift off the ground, and if not for your next games, as I do like the concept and all...

[Squirrelloid]

FWIW, I only have evidence that AlgaeNymph is still alive on my team. So I don't even know that I *have* a team to get started for Chris.

[AlgaeNymph]

I'm just waiting patiently, and I do mean patiently. I'm okay with either going ASAP or working everything out first.

[Septimius Severus]

Waiting till the last minute to pull out because you fear something else will pop up, well that I just don't understand. The pretenders choices have not really changed from the original design. And much of the plans for the AI, had not changed either. The R'lyeh to Mictlan thing was something I had not planned for though. But I understand if you have other commitments or you have become impaitent or overburdened, something I always caution about.

Very well, I will clear out your team's slots. Anyone else wishing to drop, let me know. So that I can make necessary adjustments to the rosters. The game will go on, perhaps with the mod. But I agree with you, and I beleive the concept is sound. Too bad more people don't feel that way. And the game promises to be quite exciting.

[Septimius Severus]

My team was cool and was pretty much ready to go. I think the same thing with Ano's team. I always encourage captains to keep up with team members when possible.

The Sangiunarium team is now open for anyone wishing to join that team. You can migrate from another team if you wish as well (as long as you can keep secrets). If we have enough people, we will start on time, if not, well then we will wait till we do and perhaps implement the mod. Doesn't really bother me that much (maybe I am too old to be playing games anyway). :D

As I say, anyone else wishing to drop, who's not in it for the long haul, or who has other commitments, please let me know now.

[Wrana]

also, it's not only our team that is growing impatient, look at several posts in this very thread from people on different teams, they've also finished planning their strategies weeks ago and are already impatient, and I'm sure that after our team left as a whole that those others would also follow. which is why I suggest you start over, and with better planning this time.

If you mean my humble self, I was not even present in this game "weeks ago". I filled a vacant position in Children of Crom less than week ago, I believe.
Honestly, it looks like you've suddenly decided to leave this game due to completely unrelated reasons. Especially as the date of 8th of May was stated several days ago and you all seemed OK with it. Looks quite childish all in all. :lol:

[13lackGu4rd]

when did I mention your name specifically Wrana? what's with this sudden personal attack? :o

honestly, you either don't understand, or choose to ignore what is presented to you, but I certainly don't see how this decision was either sudden of childish. don't feel the need to repeat myself specifically for you, reread my posts if you wish, also scroll back further to see other posts by other people...

[Septimius Severus]

I do agree with Wrana somewhat. Waiting till two days before start time to announce it is a bit unfair to everyone else. Still I understand that things happen, a lot of it had to do with some other time issues on the team with all the members in general. Some players are anxious to get playing and so forth and things happen in life. DrP has always acted responsibly, so if he thought it was in the best interest of everyone else, not to hold up the game when we get started, he would have done it.

I don't know what is going on with the Usurpers Squirrel, but I did PM all members of that team today to make sure everything was OK with them prior to start. I always encourage captains to fill those alternate slots, because there are always dropouts for one reason or another. And to stay in touch with each other. No reason for me to scrap a concept that is quite promising and that so much time has been put into. I am grateful to DrP though and everone else for signing up and believing in me and the game and I hope he stays on as the advisor for that team.

Btw, Gandalf has come up with an exciting concept that he will apparently be implementing in this game for the AIs, that of giving the AI nations mixed units. Thus Caelum could recruit Man units and TC could recruit Caelum units, etc in their caps.

[ano]

Well, it's a bit sudden not to say the less... I understand everything but still...
Septimius, I have to say that it is probably wiser for us all to give up this game temporarily and return to it a bit later. This does not mean I wanna drop as well, and, as I said, I will be able to play for several people for some time, if needed, but it will be just wiser. It doesn't mean this game is bad, just unlucky, and perhaps we indeed devoted too much time to the discussions and hard decisions... You did a huge amount of work and it should not be wasted. Personally I am ready to wait more but I am almost sure that many people are not. Also, summer is coming. Vacations, holidays etc.
Unpleasant backstab anyway.

[ano]

Or another suggestion - let's give up the team blood (replace with AI) and play without it. Of course, some team will be unlucky to have no borders with that AI but this game is all about luck...
I just want to stay that further waiting will not be good.

[Septimius Severus]

Or another suggestion - let's give up the team blood (replace with AI) and play without it. Of course, some team will be unlucky to have no borders with that AI but this game is all about luck...
I just want to stay that further waiting will not be good.

I have no problem with turning the whole Sanguinarium team AI if everyone want to start right away. If not, and people don't jump in to fill those empty slots immediately, I will use the extra time to complete Chris' mod, and then we will get started when any remaining slots are filled. No biggie. I don't want anyone who feels they are fine with waiting or doesn't want to lose the time they put into the game to feel like they need to go away or lose a position they have or drop. Everyone who is in already, is welcome to stay in. Anyone who wants to join is free to do so as well. If I have to put the game on hold till fall, that won't bother me either, but I hope it won't be necessary.

I'm very excited about what Gandalf will be doing with the AI, and it can actually be used with human nations as well. Something to consider for the future.

[Tonno]

Well I am bad on english so I can not say much,and I can not post what is on my mind now...:D

I understand u all are older than me,and probably have much more important things to do than to make online games...
But to say we backout 2 days before the game starts,omg,that would not even my childish friends do (thay would quit in the middle of the game)...
and when the flood comes every one goes with her...why to wait now,ok I have no problem with waiting I am new here so that do not effect me much,but the game is planed werry well,and the host was taking care of all things,so that the game would be feir and interesting (not like other games,fast and with no sense)...
And why your team broken,I personally think that is due to poor communication,my team have nice and fair communication even with me and I am a noob...and everything works well...

In the end I still do not get why to back out on the beginning of the game,that is like ppl discover cold fusion and then just say "ah,we do not need it"...wtf...?

Ok AI team is ok idea,but I think that we could tray to find replacement on forums for them (team Sanguinarium) if not we can start with AI team...
And if u vote to start the game some other day,month(OK), year(hope not :D)it is ok for me...

[Septimius Severus]

In the end I still do not get why to back out on the beginning of the game,that is like ppl discover cold fusion and then just say "ah,we do not need it"...wtf...?
I absolutely agree. I think if they were worried about delays, the justifiable thing to do would be to actually wait the 2 days to see if what was expressed as a fear of theirs actually happened. But I understand about the time constraints and real life issues people have.

Lets see about replacements for the Sangiunarium. A potentially very powerful team consisting of:

Abysia, Pangaea, Vanheim, Jotunheim.

A great opportunity to get into the game in my opinion and command your own team.

[Jorus]

I think we should get this game going asap. Unless we are extremely lucky it will take some time to get a whole new team manned and up-to-speed with all the fine points of the game - and they may want to change some!
In the meantime there may be more drop-outs and we have an extended battle of addition vs attrition.
So, I vote to put the S team on AI, or use a new map (How hard is that?) that is "balanced" for three teams.

Jorus

PS
Personally - I am in no hurry, but I think this game is in great danger of dying a slow death unless we kick start it.

[Numahr]

As far as I am concerned, I am also in no hurry, as long the game eventually takes off and fulfills its promises.

For this first MP experience, I prefer to stay in an alternate position rather than committing to a full-time Pretender position, so I think it would not help much to transfer me to the Blood Team anyway.

[Wrana]

So, I vote to put the S team on AI, or use a new map (How hard is that?) that is "balanced" for three teams.

Jorus

PS
Personally - I am in no hurry, but I think this game is in great danger of dying a slow death unless we kick start it.
Agree. About a new map I think it's a particularly good idea in case we don't get replacement soon.
And as the starting map was initially random anyway, we could get a map with some more water provinces useful at least for merc player.

[Wrana]

when did I mention your name specifically Wrana? what's with this sudden personal attack? :o

honestly, you either don't understand, or choose to ignore what is presented to you, but I certainly don't see how this decision was either sudden of childish. don't feel the need to repeat myself specifically for you, reread my posts if you wish, also scroll back further to see other posts by other people...
If you don't think that dropping out of the game without warning 2 days before start is sudden... well, maybe it's you who should reread your posts. ;)
As for what you mentioned it were "many posts by people who want to start it soon". Mine (actually, 2 I think) was certainly from this category. If you meant "posts by players X and Y from team Z", you probably should say so, nes pa? And if you think that the game could start before all positions were filled (and I, e.g. took a vacant leutenant position for my team) - how I should call this if not childish? It's children who want something without caring for whether it's currently possible or no... :lol:
No, I didn't even start any personal attack... ;)

[Numahr]

So, I vote to put the S team on AI, or use a new map (How hard is that?) that is "balanced" for three teams.

Jorus

PS
Personally - I am in no hurry, but I think this game is in great danger of dying a slow death unless we kick start it.
Agree. About a new map I think it's a particularly good idea in case we don't get replacement soon.
And as the starting map was initially random anyway, we could get a map with some more water provinces useful at least for merc player.

If a new map can be created balanced for 3 Human teams, then we could still keep the Sanguinarium team under AI control, somehow located in a way that it does not "unbalance" the game for human teams.

[13lackGu4rd]

sorry Wrana, I didn't know the world(or well, at least these forums) revolve around you. my bad... yes I did mention your name specifically in that quote, how can I be so blind?[/sarcasm]

now seriously, it wasn't sudden because the issue was already raised before by various other players, and it was actually brewing for quite some time now... so if you didn't see it coming it's your fault, nobody else's... also, even if you didn't expect it you should have still seen it coming, seeing how many needless delays happened in this game, even after all 17 slots were filled!

so, yes it was very possible to start more than a week ago, hence this argument of yours, just like your other arguments, fail miserably. oh it was indeed a personal attack, no matter how you try to coat it... maybe it was mild, maybe you try to color it nicely, but you can't deny that you stuck your nose where it didn't belong and indeed made a personal attack. now, I won't really ask this nicely of you, since you started this whole thing, so I'll just say it roughly: butt off!

[Septimius Severus]

I am glad to see that people are still interested in playing.

Lets keep this thread positive and constructive.

If everyone wants to start playing on schedule, we have two viable options failing replacment humans. I am not going to get into map changing, start placements, VP recalibration, magic location redistribution, etc. I spent tons of time on the 4 four magic location AI alone.

1. The Sanguinarium nations under AI control is fine.

Having the Sangiunarium under AI control would probably not, in my opinion really unbalance things terribly. They'd be located in one of the corners like the other teams. They be subject to the attack of Gandalf's masterful AI just like the human teams (Gandalf's AI is between all teams). True two teams would be closer to them than the third team, what does that imply? That the closer teams would have a better chance at their territory any more than with a human team in that spot? That the closer teams would be under attack anymore than if a human team was there? The VPs could be removed for those caps if needed.

2. Alternatively we could just drop the sangiunarium team altogther and maybe even remove the VPs from those capitals. The merc would be able to get there before any of us could and would be able to play around with and expand in their stead.

[Edi]

Wrana, 13lackGu4rd, please be civil. There is no need for pointless hostility and insults.


This whole NaVII fiasco is generating entirely too many reports in the moderator forums. What this means is that right now I'm telling the lot of you how this thing goes forward:

If any more sniping around this issue results in reports, all NaVII threads will be locked.
Any attempts to resurrect the game in other threads will be locked
The people involved in the sniping will get appropriate infractions
You will get this game under way and you will make sure that there will be no more need for moderator involvement.
If a need for moderator involvement arises, goto 1.

Septimius Severus, the following applies to you:

You will refrain from posting long involved complex game setups like this in the future because
They seem to generate a significantly undue amount of work for moderators
They seem to spawn threads all over the forum that amount only to advertise the specific game
They cause all kinds of frustration in other forum users, which are liable to generate bad repercussions on the forums
Spending weeks setting up what is supposed to be a simple, quick (relatively speaking, since Dom3 games take time) game is liable to drive people off.
The previous item is especially applicable to new users, who might be turned off the game entirely. This is something that is HIGHLY undesirable.

The bottom line is that organizing a Dominions 3 game is not difficult. Just keep it simple. There is NO point in making it needlessly bureaucratic, complex and tedious. If you absolutely must do so, organize it elsewhere.

If you have a problem with these guidelines, do not argue them with me. Talk to another Dominions 3 moderator or to an administrator in that case.

[Septimius Severus]

Thanks for the response Edi. I have asked players to remain constructive and positive. And have proposed two solutions to the issue of replacing a team in the above post.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=744829&postcount=325

No need to have the game die because of the loss of a team. No need for drastic actions. No need for any negative posting. I think dropping the Sangiunarium team all together might be the best solution of the two, though the AI is doable as well. Many people still wish to play the game and have invested much time into it. As long as we remain constructive here and positive (use our minds not our emotions) we can have a successful game.

So we can do #1 or #2 if you want to start soon. AI or no AI for the sangiunarium team. No big deal really. No fuss needed. No new maps needed. In either case the Merc will have the best shot at the empty location and would effectively fill the gap of the missing team. No AI for the Sanguinarium members means less resistance for them. The merc can get to that location on turn 1 if they need to and can pretty much grab most of the former teams provinces.

[Numahr]

Dear Septimus,

I think it would be a pity to loose a team which adds flavor to the game, so I would suggest to have it AI-controlled rather than removed.

BTW, I enjoy the set up of this game, even if it resulted in complications on the forum. I understand, when joining this game, that team play and role-playing rules involve a bit more interactions than a straightforward game.

(maybe all these interactions could take place in the separate forum...)

[Septimius Severus]

Thank you Numahr for your vote of confidence in the concept and your vote. I think some people are attracted to the nuances and complexities of more involved games and everyone should certainly have the right to play in them. But I understand the mods must enforce civility rules.

I think if we allow people or set backs to derail us, we sorta let them win and prove us incorrect.

I have set up a poll on our team forums with the 2 choices above, you may also express any other opinions you have in that thread.

[ano]

I want to say the following.
Being a realist, I find it hardly doable to find the good players for the whole Sang team in short terms. Also, while I was really interested initially, I've been losing my enthusiasm as the time passed just due to the obvious reasons mentioned above much more than once. Also, I nearly forgot all the things I've been thinking of a month ago. Now I'm just not sure that I want to play, also I'm not sure that my teammates want it. Also, I've recently got some real life changes that (hopefully for me) will not allow me spending all free time on thinking over the complex turns.
All that said, I again suggest to postpone this game and reawaken it later, maybe closer to autumn. Or to migrate it to something more simple and less time consuming (I'd gladly play a 2-player team game without complex rules, for example). The concept is good and I do like it as I liked it before but we indeed made some mistakes that made people lose enthusiasm. And if the plan doesn't work, it should be changed.
Regarding Edi's comment... It seems to be that different people like different games. If complex games can gather enough players, why not? But I'm agree that spawning of threads is a bad practice.

[Squirrelloid]

For the record, Kupiko seems to be missing in action. If my team's alternate is willing to step in as a full player, that would be great, otherwise we have a problem.

[Tonno]

Well now I see my chance to get in the game ;)

We can make team of alternatives to play with Sang...
I do not have any probems with Sang team is played by AI...but I must take my chance...

[Septimius Severus]

Squirrel, I am sure Numahr would like to get a chance to play. He's your alternate.

Tonno, feel free if you want to join whatever team might need ya.

I don't think we can get a full compliment of players on Sang to satisfy the time requirements of starting on time. We will likely have to do it with AIs or with no AIs in there place. But we CAN start tommorow as scheduled, if everyone is game. We do have enough players for it. Its up to you dudes. :) I am game if you guys are.

[Numahr]

I am ready! Dear Tonno, I am sure you will find another slot as other players may have similarly vanished.

[Squirrelloid]

Sept, you'll have our positions by this evening - should i send them to Gandalf as well?

[Septimius Severus]

Now that is what I am talking about! :D

Where there is a will, there's a way.

Squirrel, you can send your positioning info to both of us if you like, but at least to me. Also let me know who is playing which nation as soon as you can.

Tonno, your still on our team of course. But if Ano needs you, you can go over to him. I hearby swear you to secrecy!

[Tonno]

Wow man I am still with the children of crom,and if needed i can pass,but I will always be a crom bro...
And for silence u do not have to worry,my parents made me a verry big Catholic...:D

So we start tomorow?
what port pls?

[ano]

Guys, I am very sorry to say this but after the Sanguinarium drop I don't feel too enthusiastic to play a 3-way at the moment. That's what I tried to say with my posts. I feel very sorry but if you really want to play it may be even better for you as there will be no "third team", a pure duel.
Maybe it will be the best solution, btw.

[Jorus]

Unbelievable.

I feel like I've been dropped in some sort of dimension dominated by juveniles. Between General Edi's edicts and these last minute drops I don't feel this forum is for adults.

If it was, we'd be treated as adults - don't tell us what sort of games we can play and show us some sort of respect by stasnding by your commitments.

For it's complexity I think it was moving along well. I am a newbie and appreciate the fact that I can discuss strategies with team members and learn the game. Anybody could see BEFORE joining that this was going to be complex and take some time to get started.

SS did a lot of work and does he get thanks? No, just crap. I know the spamming etc. annoyed some people, but it was easy to stop and/or ignore. Get over it.

Jorus

[ano]

Jorus,
I may say absolutely the same. I greatly appreciate the work Septimius has done and can't really understand why people treat him this way. Also, I will feel pitiful if this work is wasted.
You're right in every single point except the one that the it took "some time". It took a lot of time without an exaggeration. But I don't want to blame anyone or something. Things do happen. But I can really understand people who get nervous and drop.
Also, if you (all) really think that our team is required in this game and everybody wants to play, and there will be no game without our team, I will stay and play. I just really think that a duel is a more interesting experience than a 3-way. And it's really so. And I probably won't have much time to devote to this game. And this is also true.

p.s. Probably, the Septimus' adverts and "spamming" were really what made people all around nervous and this is understandable and quite bad for our game.

p.p.s. I appreciate your attitude, btw. Posts like this are so rare nowadays.

[AlgaeNymph]

I'll just say that I also don't want the Sanguinarium to get dropped or go AI. Not strongly enough to go on and on, mind, but enough to state my opinion.

[zegc-ben]

I think that it's a pity not to have a human controled blood team but having it set to AI will still be the best solution.

Ano's proposition seems appealing but a little unrealistic to me since we cannot hope to have exactly the same players : even without real life getting in the way if this game is postponed people will start other games and some of them will have to many games to start a complicated new one. If you add all the real life problems 4 months may bring I think we should expect to have to find a lot of new players. I think it's up to Sept to decide if he wants to go through this preparation again but everybody seemed really tired of it.

For the option of having the sanguinarium computer controled, some way to improve balance could be to ask the two neighbouring human team to refrain from attaking those AI early on so that the customs AI and the mercs (me) will be able to secure this land into some sort of "neutral ground". This will probably not be enough to give all teams an equal chance to victory but hopefully it should enable everybody to enjoy the game : there are unbalanced starting position in most game after all (and with 3 teams we may reach a point where the game balance itself with with the two little powers allying against the biggest one until it isnt the biggest anymore and the alliance shift).

[Septimius Severus]

Jorus, thanks for your uplifting post. I was bit perturbed at Edi's notion that complex games should not/could not be organized any longer on Shrapnel. If such games can garner enough players, everyone should have the right to both organize and join in them. But I respect him as I do all the moderators, they must keep order here.

Did I go overboard early on in advertising, perhaps, but I did what I thought was necessary (partly to counteractive the negativity against my type of more involved game), attempted to do so on an infrequent basis only as needed, and sought to follow what I thought the mods allowed as best as possible. And contrary to what some might have said, my posts on other forums where not intended soley for advert purposes but to discuss team games and the scenario concept. I have always encouraged positive constructive posting and have always discouraged anything that we could not learn from in some form or another.

We DID have the full compliment of players to start until the Sanguinarium dropped. We can still start the game on time and on schedule today as I promised, with 3 teams and with AIs/or no AI's in place of the Sangiunarium (have to check the vote). The merc would definately benefit and even things out in that regard. No worries there. The AI will be ready to go. Everyones time will not be wasted.

But if Ano's team is not onboard, I've no choice really but to either put the game on an extended delay till we get a full compliment of human players (I have an incredible amount of patience and would hate to see a great concept die and time wasted), or else shelve the project till the fall. The full team pretender mod will be implemented if these things are necessary.

I will be back on later this afternoon in case Ano's changes his mind. I am updating the main roster for now, with the names of the AI gods, and Squirrels teams players.

Meanwhile, I will take this opportunity to advertise Gandalf's excellent game designed with newbie players in mind. His game does what my games are intended to do, not crush/rush noobs early on, and gives them time to explore the game and breathing room.

I am also considering admining a single player game, in the meantime as well or in leiu. This game will be unique in concept (I just don't like plain games all the time), but will be a nice compliment to anything else. And will be noob friendly as well.

Vale.

[Edi]

If everyone is okay with the long organizing time and the delays, by all means go ahead with it.

My previous post may have been somewhat hasty and perhaps I did not read quite far enough back through the thread, so apologies for that. But if there are disagreements, try to make sure that things are resolved without the need for moderator involvement. In any case I will not do anything unilaterally, if something comes up, my fellow moderators will certainly have their own take on things and weigh in.

[Kupiko]

I'm sorry but there has been trouble with my internet access and i might have some problem for some time. I definitely want to play but it might be kinda uneffective on my part. I'll send my pretender to gandalf anyway. If you still want me then he can upload me.

[Squirrelloid]

I'm sorry but there has been trouble with my internet access and i might have some problem for some time. I definitely want to play but it might be kinda uneffective on my part. I'll send my pretender to gandalf anyway. If you still want me then he can upload me.

Kupiko, please come chat on the Usurper forum before you do anything else. I'm fine if you and numahr want to collaborate on playing Pythium, but that means we need to have an active dialog going. (Also, there are relevant threads that you might want to read, and I'd like you to post the pretender build you're using in the relevant thread. We're a team, not a collection of individuals - communication is important).

[Squirrelloid]

So, I know this is direct connect to dom3minions - can we get a specific port for uploading pretenders?

My/Chris's team, DO NOT UPLOAD YOUR PRETENDER until you've talked with the team on our forums. And if you don't understand this direct connect thing I can help you with it. (Alternately, I'm hopping on IRC now, you can talk to me there for most of today).

[Squirrelloid]

Anyone home, this game still on? Is there a port for us to connect to?

At the very least I've had a peep from every member of my team at least once in the last few days, but they haven't necessarily been especially communicative. (I swear, its like herding cats)

Anyway, my money is against this starting today, because I'm not even sure how to upload my pretender to a direct connect game I haven't been given sufficient information to connect to... This is the kind of information that needs to be distributed.

[AlgaeNymph]

At the very least I've had a peep from every member of my team at least once in the last few days, but they haven't necessarily been especially communicative. (I swear, its like herding cats)Meow?

[Septimius Severus]

I'm here. I must say, great work by Gandalf on the AIs. Wow! I feel sorry for us. :o

[Septimius Severus]

Direct connect is very easy. We are currently only using the BI mod at this stage. You probably don't need it to design your pretender (as far as I know it makes no changes to pretenders) but you if you want to enable it, from the get go, no problem. You will need it for the first turn though.

Disable all other mods.

Create your god using the in-game tools as normal. Don't forget to set a password for your pretender. I recommend teams use a common or shared password but you can use individual ones if you want.

When the game is up and ready for pretenders you simply select connect from the main menu. Then "Connect to a dominions server", Gandalf's IP address should already be filled in, if not you can type in "game.dom3minions.com". You then type in the port number (forthcoming) hit OK. Select your nation and your pretender file will be uploaded automatically. You'll see a list of the nations currently in the game. At this stage the game is "waiting for pretenders" once all pretender are in, I will start the game.

Waiting to hear back from Ano.

[Squirrelloid]

When the game is up and ready for pretenders you simply select connect from the main menu. Then "Connect to a dominions server", Gandalf's IP address should already be filled in, if not you can type in "game.dom3minions.com". You then type in the port number (forthcoming) hit OK. Select your nation and your pretender file will be uploaded automatically.

The bolded text is the sticking point. Its now 9:50pm local time for me. I'm certainly not getting a pretender in today at this rate.

[Septimius Severus]

Haven't put the game up cuz I am still waiting to hear from Ano whether his team is in or out as per my earlier message. That is the real sticking point (and the question in your PM to him as well).

I guess we will see what happens tommorow. Eh?

[Numahr]

Dear Kupiko, please come to our forum and confirm that you take over command for Pythium. In the interim, I remain in charge for them, ready to hand over as soon as you're "officially" back.

[ano]

Haven't put the game up cuz I am still waiting to hear from Ano whether his team is in or out as per my earlier message.
I answered each of your PM's in detail, Septimius. If you want me to repeat it here, I will. I haven't heard from NooBliss for a long time and don't know if he is still in here. Same for don_pablo. Also, you've read my proposal. I don't drop and Natpy doesn't as well

[don_Pablo]

I check this thread every day but usually have nothing to say.

I'm in and I can easily wait for start.

[Septimius Severus]

Well it is good to hear from you Don, and I am glad to see enthusiam is still present. What a steadfast crowd, it brings a tear to my eye. :cry:

Tonno, if you'd like to go over to the empty Sang team and see if you can bring in some others (particularly someone with a bit more experience, feel free. Nice if Numahr went with you but I can understand if he wants to stay with his team. The blood team has a lot going for it. A lot of strengths.

I am going to take an hour or two to see if I can complete the full pretender mod, while Ano is reconnoitering with his team mates.

If we go against the AI sang, I will likely place the teams manually rather than at random to either facilitate Ano's desire for his team to get ganged up on and/or to even access to the Sang AI team.

[Tonno]

Wtf...me playing...LoL...
Ok,I joind this topic (thread) to be a part of a community...
I realy like your team Septimus,nice ppl and crew,and i will gladly go as a substitute (but I would like to stay remembered as a crom)...:D
I will tray to do my best,and of corse I am happy to play,but I think that I am too week for u,no fun in that...But great xp it will be...

Looking for players with good xp...;)

[ano]

Tonno,
We will play, this or that way. So don't worry.
Now I'm sure that this game will not die.

[Septimius Severus]

The full team pretender mod has been completed. I am currently running tests and will post it tommorow. I have removed all the unused pretenders from the design screen as well. So when you design your pretenders you will see all of your team's pretenders (as listed in the teams&themes.pdf) but nothing else.

I did notice I forgot to take out the void lord, void lurker, old man of the sea when we switched to Mictlan from R'lyeh, so those will not be available for the Usurpers. The teams&themes.pdf will be updated to reflect those changes.

Looks real good. Now if we can will fill up the blood team again, we'll have us a proper game against a full compliment of humans.:D

[Numahr]

Nice if Numahr went with you but I can understand if he wants to stay with his team. The blood team has a lot going for it. A lot of strengths.

I am not opposed in principle. The thing is:
- I have committed to a position, sub for Pythium, as Kupiko's presence is for the moment a bit ethereal; I cannot consider taking another position as long as Kupiko has not definitely made it back;
- Less importantly, but still, now I know some things about the Usurpers' strategy and it don't feel it very natural to have to "forget them".

In short I am already committed for the time being, but if Kupiko's presence is confirmed I *could* go to the Blood Team if that would allow to resurrect it!

[Septimius Severus]

Nice if Numahr went with you but I can understand if he wants to stay with his team. The blood team has a lot going for it. A lot of strengths.

I am not opposed in principle. The thing is:
- I have committed to a position, sub for Pythium, as Kupiko's presence is for the moment a bit ethereal; I cannot consider taking another position as long as Kupiko has not definitely made it back;
- Less importantly, but still, now I know some things about the Usurpers' strategy and it don't feel it very natural to have to "forget them".

In short I am already committed for the time being, but if Kupiko's presence is confirmed I *could* go to the Blood Team if that would allow to resurrect it!

No problem, stay wherever your comfortable.

[zegc-ben]

I can play with the blood team if it need aon member but I will prefer to go on with the mercs : selling weapons to both side of a war and (hopefully) becoming a major power through trade seems just to good.

[ano]

Septimius, please consider adding to your mod a site that gives atlantean mercs 1 gem of each time. We discussed it earlier but you said you want no more mods.

[ano]

Since I haven't got a reply from NooBliss from Saturday, let's go with "plan B". We replace NooBliss with karnoza and play 2 vs 1. We have a full Russian team this way, btw.
If you give us any other bonus, this will be appreciated, if not, so be it.

We are ready to start any time.

[Septimius Severus]

The teams&themes.pdf has been updated/corrected (removed R'lyeh gods, monolith) available via link below and on the main page.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10102&d=1273579030

The team pretenders mod is almost finished (looking very nice) and will be posted shortly. There were some issues that were discovered during testing and corrected (particularly difficult were copying the Dragons and some unit descriptions were missing). Thanks to Burnsaber and indirectly Soyweiser for their assistance in that matter and to Chrispedersen for his preliminary work. You'll likely need the mod enabled when you design/redesign your pretenders.

Also added to the mod are some gem income tweaks for Atlantis and I have added #bloodnation tags for the Sangiunarium team, so that if played by the AI they will pursue a blood strategy.

Though, I prefered not to roll team starts and reveal team locations prior to starting, I am going to roll the colored team locations now at random, so we can get moving along. No arguments, fussing, complaining, map tweaking suggestions, etc. This is random, so lets be satisfied with the arrangement. It may also give your teams something to discuss. Rolling now!

[Septimius Severus]

Random number generator ON: (1-4)

1 = White
2 = Blue
3 = Green
4 = Yellow

Children of Crom = Yellow
The Sanguinarium = White
Supplicants of Set = Green
The Usurpers = Blue

Viola! Again, no arguing, fussing, fighting, and lets accept these unbiased results. If you want to adjust your individual nations placements send me a PM.

Ano, I'll try to contact Noobliss. With so many Bakemonos available to your team he should be happy. Meanwhile have Karnoza register on team forums, update me as to any player/nation changes on your team. Thanks.

[Tonno]

heroic work Sept...:D

The team pretenders mod...?
It sounds cool,but have no idea what is that...

Problem:looks like my dom3 is too old or some other ****...Problems with direct conection,but I have called gendalf in help,he posted something otherday about problems with direct connection...

O yea,I think we can still save blood team,CAn I bring friend in game,he is great with abysia but he also have no xp in online games...?
so we will not be short with players...but with no alternativs in crom and sang team...
we are a bit late with game,but damn this sounds great,game of the year certainly...:p

[Wrana]

Since I haven't got a reply from NooBliss from Saturday, let's go with "plan B". We replace NooBliss with karnoza and play 2 vs 1. We have a full Russian team this way, btw.
If you give us any other bonus, this will be appreciated, if not, so be it.

Good luck! If you have full Russian team, what other bonus is needed! ;)
Congratulations on Victory Day, by the way! It would probably be a good omen for your team if we'd managed to start 8th. ;)

[ano]

Good luck! If you have full Russian team, what other bonus is needed!
Hehe. We lack only you:))

Regarding Tonno's suggestion. I think it's not wise to bring completely new people into this game without proper guidance. This is going to be a hardcore game so it seems to me now that AI Sanguinarium will be better than Sanguinarium composed of newbies.
And let's start!:)

[Wrana]

Good luck! If you have full Russian team, what other bonus is needed!
Hehe. We lack only you:))


Next time, guys. :)
And I agree about starting.
As for Tonno suggestion - it could work, but if we would find an experienced MP (not necessarily online) player to captain. Without captain - I don't know. Well, if they really want to play in this particular game we can allow them to try and probably give some bonuses on the map (special province, e.g.). Better to start now. ;)

[ano]

Septimius
Do I understand it correct that your mod gives each nation in a team access to all team pretender chassis?

[ano]

Ano, I'll try to contact Noobliss. With so many Bakemonos available to your team he should be happy.
I'm sorry but this train has already started so I may only suggest him an alternate slot which he, most probably, won't like due to the language problems.

[Tonno]

I have one realy bad news...not bad for u and game...:D

when I joind the forums,I conected some direct connection game that was posted on some page (do not know where)...and now when I join the game it stops and my screen becomes red...:shock:
So I asked gendalf what is the problem,I did update the pach 3.24 but it looks like the problem is in my cracked version of Dominions...

So untille I buy the original game,I will not be able to join the multiplayer...
So sorry,I realy had great time with u,and I feel realy disappointed right now...:(

Enjoy the game...

[Calahan]

...it looks like the problem is in my cracked version of Dominions...

So untille I buy the original game,I will not be able to join the multiplayer...
Actually buying the game is generally a good idea if you want to play it! :doh:

[ano]

Also, as DrP is not with us anymore, I'd again think of using the Llamabeast's endgame diversity mod. It doesn't benefit our team but I really like it and want to try what it is in a serious game.
But if voting or something slows down the start, I'm fine without it.

[Septimius Severus]

Team Pretenders mod is complete and ready to download. Be sure to enable the mod, then design/redesign your pretenders. Available at link below and on the main post of the thread:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10108&d=1273658319

Children of Crom pretender design screen:

http://i42.tinypic.com/28texz5.jpg

Sanguinarium pretender desgin screen:

http://i39.tinypic.com/11slfsg.jpg

Supplicants of Set pretender design screen:

http://i41.tinypic.com/f9xmr.jpg

Usurpers pretender design screen:

http://i42.tinypic.com/s6n6g6.jpg

Atlantean Mercenaries pretender design screen:

http://i40.tinypic.com/16kno6p.jpg

AITEAM pretender design screen (included for fun):

http://i42.tinypic.com/a59f2w.jpg

[ano]

Cool!
Let's go!;)

[Wrana]

I'll try other Pretenders, just for fun. But I think that my choice is solid, so let's start. I'm okay with Endgame Diversity, but probably more for the next game from this series.

[zegc-ben]

Endgame diversity seems interesting but let's start as soon as possible.

[Septimius Severus]

I'd have to review the Endgame Diversity for conflicts with our pretender mod. It might be wiser to save it for game 3. 2 mods are probably enough.

I have been playtesting Gandalf's AI, and Gandalf has created some very powerful AIs. They are not to be taken lightly! They will be quite a challenge (even for vets) for several reasons:

Without giving too much away:

1. Gandalf's Uber AIs make use of mixed capital only units in some instances.

2. While Gandalf had to follow path restrictions like every team, his pretenders are not necessarily limited to the design point limits imposed by the in-game design screen and he can make use of other units in the game as pretenders (noted as Gandalf's Choice).

3. Gandalf's AIs have been given various additional bonuses.

4. In game 1, it took over 30 turns for 16 human players to defeat them including some very experienced players (though admitedly many players were holding back), we only have 12 (not counting the Merc) so far this time around!

Recommendations for Atlantis:

Grab as much of the center as possible as soon as possible, set PD high. Then head toward Sang (if AI) and other lake provinces to try to grab as many indies as possible. Since you cannot attack AIs, or players (unless you bump or are hired), it will be imperative you grab as much Indy territory as you can.

Recommendations for everyone else:

Pray! :D

Failing the filling up of the Sang team or the desire to wait for additional players, I am going to ask Gandalf to put up our game for pretender uploads tommorow. Port number will be listed shortly.

Ano, Squirrel, PM or post any revised nation rosters (who is playing whom).

[ano]

Septimius,
I've got two important questions
1. Do we have AI Sanguinarium team or just empty space? I REALLY hope for the first.
2. What exactly is the gem income of the mercs?

Everything else is clear and we're almost ready.

[Septimius Severus]

Septimius,
I've got two important questions
1. Do we have AI Sanguinarium team or just empty space? I REALLY hope for the first.
2. What exactly is the gem income of the mercs?

Everything else is clear and we're almost ready.

The vote seemed to be in favor of AI Sanguinarum (#bloodnation tags have been added so that if played by AI, those nation are more likely to pursue a blood strategy, which preserves the flavor of the game). In terms of relations to the Merc, they will be treated like any other AI or human player (no first attack, etc.).

I'd like to get 4 human players for the Sang team if we can, but we can start or at least start pretender uploads tommorow. This way you'll have your gods in.

The exact gem income of the merc is of course supposed to be kept a secret but they do have a broad range of gems.

[ano]

The exact gem income of the merc is of course supposed to be kept a secret but they do have a broad range of gems.
Ok, I will ask another way. Do they have gem income of each type?
And another question. Does the Atlantis player know what gems he will have before start? Understand, I don't want to spy, I just want to make a deal and understand if it is possible.

[Septimius Severus]

The exact gem income of the merc is of course supposed to be kept a secret but they do have a broad range of gems.
Ok, I will ask another way. Do they have gem income of each type?
And another question. Does the Atlantis player know what gems he will have before start? Understand, I don't want to spy, I just want to make a deal and understand if it is possible.

I am of course expecting Atlantis to be able to do more than just gem related services of course. What deal? The player doesn't know, ahh what say we wait till turn 1, then he can tell you whatever you want to know in private if he see fit. Zegc, will also know exactly what he can offer in terms of services when he sees his first turn. :D Not trying to be overly secretive or anything, just trying to keep some surpises in the game.

[ano]

What deal?
I think I'll keep it private :)
I am of course expecting Atlantis to be able to do more than just gem related services of course.
I doubt he can offer more on turn 1 :)

[Septimius Severus]

You can tell me the deal. :gossip: I won't tell a soul. Honest!;)

You may also send me a list of your pretender's while your at it. What else can you reveal about your team and strategy?
Inquiring minds want to know.

[ano]

I will think of it, I promise. Or maybe you will just see it...

Will tell you a lot for the appropriate fee. No problem :)

[ano]

Septimius
Are we going to start this weekend? This would be really cool. Too much waiting:)

[Septimius Severus]

I have forwarded all the setup info to Gandalf and am awaiting port # to being pretender uploads and game.

Player rosters updated.

[Septimius Severus]

Game is up and ready for pretender uploads.

Port # 10333

Enable mods, create your pretender, upload.

Once all pretenders are in, I will begin the game.

Good Luck!

[Septimius Severus]

With my creative juices still flowing, wanted to share some ideas about game 3:

I'll likely either reduce team size to 3, or remove 1 team due to the difficulty in recruting/retaining large numbers of players over lengthy periods.

Some theme ideas for game 3:

3 realms:

Heavenly Realm - Paths: Astral, Air, Water

Possible Thematic Nations: Caelum, Midgard, Man, TC

Example Pretenders: Virtue, Shedu, Oracle, Male/Female Titan, Lord of the Sky, Lady of Fortune, Son of the Heavens, Daughter of the Dawn, Father of Winters, Blue Dragon, etc.

Earthly Realm - Paths: Earth, Nature, Water

Possible Thematic Nations: Pangaea, Agartha, Ulm, Patala

Example Pretenders: Cyclops, Great Mother, Mother of Lions, Great White Bull, Gorgon, Colossal Fetish, Wyrm, Green Dragon, etc.

Underworld Realm - Paths: Fire, Blood, Death

Possible Thematic Nations: Abysia, Marignon, C'tis, Utgard

Example Pretenders: Moloch, Vampire Queen, Fountain of Blood, Prince of Death, Solar Disc, Baphomet, Ghost King, Lord of the Gates, Red Dragon, etc.

Collegium Arcanum (Rainbow magic theme) - Paths: Multiple and Varied

Possible Thematic Nations: Arco, TC, Jomon, Mictlan

Example Pretenders: Lord of Rebirth, Lawgiver, any other large pretender with native magic in three or more paths, all 10 magic path cost rainbow pretenders, etc.

Gandalf's AI: Theme: Genocide
The complete and final annihilation of all human players. :D

[Numahr]

Septimus, the new themes for the game#3 are appealing... :)

I have a newbie question regarding the connection to the server. You give a port number, but the game also asks for an IP#, what should I write there?

Thanks in advance,

Numahr

[ano]

You don't need IP, just enter game.dom3minions.com. IP will be resolved by your DNS server.

[Wrana]

With my creative juices still flowing, wanted to share some ideas about game 3:

I'll likely either reduce team size to 3, or remove 1 team due to the difficulty in recruting/retaining large numbers of players over lengthy periods.

Probably a good idea. Reduction of team sizes means removal of leutenant position - not necessarily good, reduction of team numbers can lead to very stable situation where teams maneuver diplomatically waiting for advantage. I'm not sure which is better.


3 realms: [snip]

Do I understand correctly that this would be LA game? Then Mictlan is a Blood nation again and doesn't have Lawgiver as a Pretender choice... Also, you should then include Bogarus - maybe in Heavenly Realm (for its Air magic and various Birds of Paradise) or in Collegium Arcanum (due to its broad magic diversity).
AITEAM, of course, includes R'lyeh and Ermor? And Carrion Woods Pangaea?

[Numahr]

You don't need IP, just enter game.dom3minions.com. IP will be resolved by your DNS server.

Thanks Ano. God uploaded... :)

[ano]

4 slots still open. One of them is Machaka who, as I know, will have the god aboard today. If not, I'll upload god for him.
So, *hopefully* we may start today/tomorrow

[Septimius Severus]

With my creative juices still flowing, wanted to share some ideas about game 3:

I'll likely either reduce team size to 3, or remove 1 team due to the difficulty in recruting/retaining large numbers of players over lengthy periods.

Probably a good idea. Reduction of team sizes means removal of leutenant position - not necessarily good, reduction of team numbers can lead to very stable situation where teams maneuver diplomatically waiting for advantage. I'm not sure which is better.


3 realms: [snip]

Do I understand correctly that this would be LA game? Then Mictlan is a Blood nation again and doesn't have Lawgiver as a Pretender choice... Also, you should then include Bogarus - maybe in Heavenly Realm (for its Air magic and various Birds of Paradise) or in Collegium Arcanum (due to its broad magic diversity).
AITEAM, of course, includes R'lyeh and Ermor? And Carrion Woods Pangaea?

Heh, these are just ideas I'm fooling around with at this point. Glad to see people like some of them. Lotta blood nations in LA. Your right about Bogarus. I'd have to look at all LA nations in depth before deciding which nation fits best in which realm. I could make use of pretenders from all era's, as well various units in the game as pretenders if desired/needed. Smoking Mirror, Jade Emperor are some other of those multi-path pretenders, forgot which eras though. I do like the 3 realms idea, just an example of the many themes that one can discern in the game.

Right. LA R'lyeh and Ermor have such devastating dominions that if included they'd likely be given to Gandalf. Don't know how well the AI handles LA Ermor though.

[chrispedersen]

Since its early, let me chime in here.

I *hate* themes. Let players choose the nations they want to play, via points choices, whatever.

I don't care if you want to apply game conditions- only water gods, only rainbows.. only left handed red haired stepchildren.

But after that let people play as they want.

It would be interesting if all 3 teams were all the same nations, for example bogarus, mictlan, and Ermor. Or whatever.

I'd also like to suggest using the BDS mod: No bogus random sites.

[Squirrelloid]

I should have mine up sometime today. Sorry, the last couple days have been busier than expected.

[Septimius Severus]

Since its early, let me chime in here.

I *hate* themes. Let players choose the nations they want to play, via points choices, whatever.

I don't care if you want to apply game conditions- only water gods, only rainbows.. only left handed red haired stepchildren.

But after that let people play as they want.

It would be interesting if all 3 teams were all the same nations, for example bogarus, mictlan, and Ermor. Or whatever.

I'd also like to suggest using the BDS mod: No bogus random sites.

Thanks for your input Chris. You hate themes? :) I love themes. Especially if they can be fleshed out and are workable. I like the 3 realms especially. Sure they cut down on freedom somewhat, but that is sorta of the goal behind the RPG/Roleplaying/Scenario deal. I think though there may be more than 4 viable choices of nations for each of the themed teams so there may be some choice (if we only go with 3 human teams) and a wide selection (much more than the current game) of pretenders. Benefit of predefined or semi predefined teams (nations) saves time (unless your cool with first come, first sever) no need to auction/bid/ or use another scheme to assign nations. This game type doesn't appeal to everyone though, I am aware of that.

Interesting idea about duplicate nations, possible with the multi era mod, don't know about single age without creating duplicate nations.

Will look into the BDS mod.

Only 3 pretenders left to go:

Arco
Bandar Log
Marignon

[AlgaeNymph]

Sure they cut down on freedom somewhat[...]More importantly, they cut down on the min-maxing, squabbles over who gets what nation, and playing to win instead of to have fun.

[Squirrelloid]

Sure they cut down on freedom somewhat[...]More importantly, they cut down on the min-maxing, squabbles over who gets what nation, and playing to win instead of to have fun.

The problem is that arbitrary restrictions hurt nations asymmetrically. Nations who want to take pure scales aren't very effected by having their pretender options limited. Bless nations who happen to get the blesses they want 'in-theme' stay really good.

On the other hand, bless nations who lose access to the bless they want are severely hurt.

Similarly, any nation who needs a rainbow pretender gets the shaft since you seem to have decided its unthematic to use your pretender to diversify. While nations who already have quite diverse magic don't get hurt as badly.

I'd say this makes the min-maxing worse, because there are some nations that are clear winners, and some nations that are clear losers, even moreso than usual (since you generally can't use your pretender to make up for your liabilities with the draconian restrictions imposed).

[Septimius Severus]

Sure they cut down on freedom somewhat[...]More importantly, they cut down on the min-maxing, squabbles over who gets what nation, and playing to win instead of to have fun.

The problem is that arbitrary restrictions hurt nations asymmetrically. Nations who want to take pure scales aren't very effected by having their pretender options limited. Bless nations who happen to get the blesses they want 'in-theme' stay really good.

On the other hand, bless nations who lose access to the bless they want are severely hurt.

Similarly, any nation who needs a rainbow pretender gets the shaft since you seem to have decided its unthematic to use your pretender to diversify. While nations who already have quite diverse magic don't get hurt as badly.

I'd say this makes the min-maxing worse, because there are some nations that are clear winners, and some nations that are clear losers, even moreso than usual (since you generally can't use your pretender to make up for your liabilities with the draconian restrictions imposed).

Good counterpoints Squirrel. But you do sorta make the case for experienced players and the play to win mentality (perhaps the two go hand in hand). Well, I suppose you can't have your whole RPG cake and eat it too (or can you). :)

There are of course many ways to play and view the game. Many ways to view the nations. I tend not to view players or nations or anything or anyone else as "winners" or "losers" but that is just my naive thinking perhaps.

I think though that with 3 paths instead of two we might capture more of the thematic essence (such as in the 3 realms idea) of many nations and also expand the bless options. And pretender options will be greatly expanded.

[Septimius Severus]

Reminder, two pretenders left to upload:

Children of Crom:

http://img.youtube.com/vi/W5K3AKl5qpc/2.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWEQiW2TYAM&feature=related

Marignon (Jorus)

Usurpers:

http://i44.tinypic.com/15dkjs3_th.jpg

Arco (Penguin Zero)

[ano]

I think that if everything has been discussed, then these guys' teammates are perfectly capable of uploading pretenders for them.

[Septimius Severus]

Margie is in!

[Squirrelloid]

Sure Ano, but I'd like to know Penguin is actually about and paying attention since the game is going to start shortly after his pretender is uploaded. I for one don't want to have to play multiple nations!

[Septimius Severus]

Sure Ano, but I'd like to know Penguin is actually about and paying attention since the game is going to start shortly after his pretender is uploaded. I for one don't want to have to play multiple nations!

A prudent decision, though I share Ano's desire to get underway as soon as possible, I am aware part of function of pretender uploads is also to make sure the player is still alive! I don't want anyone playing multiple nations on a long term basis.

Options for Usurpers:

I still have Kupiko listed as an alternate for your team and Chrispedersen as Team Advisor. Perhaps either one can return.

Tonno, our alternate, may be interested (just needs to be sworn to secrecy/forget what he knows) :), or perhaps someone else you know.

Let's try to get underway as soon as possible though.:)

[Squirrelloid]

If Penguin is still nonresponsive tomorrow, I support finding someone to replace him.

Note that I'm only subbing for Chrispedersen, so Chris stepping in to fill Penguin's shoes isn't really an option. He should be replacing me around the end of the week.

[Jorus]

[QUOTE=Squirrelloid;745810]

I still have Kupiko listed as an alternate for your team and Chrispedersen as Team Advisor. Perhaps either one can return.

Tonno, our alternate, may be interested (just needs to be sworn to secrecy/forget what he knows) :), or perhaps someone else you know.

Let's try to get underway as soon as possible though.:)

Kupiko has had internet problems in his other game and had mentioned dropping out. He has missed 3 turns. I thought Tonno was banned until he bought the game?

Jorus

[ano]

Penguin Zero's last activity was today, 02:34 and last post - in the middle of April. Perhaps we should PM him.

[NooBliss]

Ouch. I see you guys have started without me.

Probably for the better - I have fallen ill AND have a deadline. Sorry for keeping you waiting.

[Septimius Severus]

I am aware of the issues with Kupiko. We do need to get this game going today, if at all possible.

Noobliss, we haven't started yet, so if you feel inclined the Usurpers likely need a person. Can you play at least temp?

[Septimius Severus]

Unless you have an unorthodox team strategy (knowing Chris he probably does), or your Ashdod and/or willing to take risks, or employing SC pretenders, the first few turns are generally routine with not much happening. So failing anything else, if the build for Arco has been discussed, a pretender could be uploaded by the Usurpers teammates. The Usurpers could use that time to find a sub, take turns playing for the missing player, etc. I don't want to go that route but we may have no choice.

Captains (or acting Captains) generally have overall responsibility for subs/replacements on their team. As well as the player who is absent to some degree. This is why I encourage the lineup of alternates ahead of time and the continuing communication of team members. We all know how fickle fate can be. Dom3 games can run for long periods so a stalwart crew is essential for a team game. Sometimes/oftentimes captains must be proactive.

I am hearing something from Gandalf regarding Mictlan's pretender. Something about a forgotten password? Algae, what is going on? A single password for all team pretenders is a good idea in my opinion.

Jorus, Tonno, tells me he has acquired a legit copy of the game. His banning here, though would not necessarily affect his being able to play in our game (once he has gotten his game straightened out), we have our own team forums and such.

[Willburn]

Is there any slots still open or too late?

[ano]

Probably Arco slot is still open in case you really are going to play :)

[Squirrelloid]

Arco slot definitely still open. Come chat on our forums once Sept lets you in!

Please PM me if you're definitely interested - i'll get a pretender submitted for you so you'll be all set to take your first turn.

[Squirrelloid]

Game is started. I've taken Arco's first turn for them. We are in need of a player for Arco longterm however.

[Septimius Severus]

Ok, I am updating the main post and title thread.

Willburn and Militarist had indicated interest. Militarist was interested in the Usurpers at one point but everything was full at that time. Please contact them and let me know.

[Willburn]

I am still interested in the archo :) !!

[Squirrelloid]

Willburn wins the first person to contact me prize! Sept, would you please give him access to the team forum?

[Willburn]

Thanks for letting me play guys :) I am really exited to play with all of you!

[ano]

Good luck, Willburn!

[Wrana]

Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge! :)
At last!
And, Ano, you shouldn't forgot Uncle Chernomor for Pretenders' names. ;)

[Septimius Severus]

Welcome, Willburn.

Your forum account is good to go. Team rosters updated.

Good luck and may the best team win. ;)

[ano]

And, Ano, you shouldn't forgot Uncle Chernomor for Pretenders' names.
Remember, I suggested adding another nation to our team? ;)

[Septimius Severus]

I wanted to take minute to provide some clarification regarding direct connect and our game for our players, since many have asked questions and/or are not that familiar with direct connect.

1. You can play in multiple games via direct connect on Gandalf's server at one time, the only thing you need to remember/jot down is the port number for each game.

2. Our game should be running on both the fixed (currently 32 hour) timer and quick/fast host (all turns are in). So the game can/will host whichever comes first. Remind me to confirm with Gandalf on that as the default auto behaviour.

3. Your comp is only connected to the server for a few seconds when you connect, select your nation and enter your password. During that time your comp is either downloading a .trn file (if you are playing your current turn for the first time and/or viewing or playing another nation's turns)or uploading your .2h (orders) file. The rest of the time your offline, just like a PBEM game and can play your turn via the "Play an existing game" menu option. End your turn and when your ready to send your .2h, that is when you should select connect from the network menu.

4. You can view your teammates turns (especially useful for Captains and Advisors) easily. The thing to remember when just viewing someone else's turn is, after connecting, entering the password, and selecting the nation, remember not to hit the 'End Turn' button, but rather select the options menu and hit 'Quit Without Saving'. This prevents the comp from generating a .2h file and your accidently uploading a .2h for someone else when you don't mean to or otherwise causing them to stale.

5. When you connect to the game, you'll see the game timer and you can also mouse over the different nations to see (who controls them human/AI) and whether or not that player (if human) has submitted their turn (2h.) file. This way you can check on the status of your teammates turn submissions.

6. All in all, I think you will find direct connect is quite cool. It runs smoothly, leads to faster turn submissions and hosting, and automates a lot of tasks that you'd have to do manually with PBEM (creating folders, moving .trn and .2h files, attaching files to e-mails, etc).

[ano]

It's a matter of personal taste, of course, but direct connect is pretty inconvenient, in my opinion. Although there're obviously some benefits for a team game (easier sharing turns, but):
1. Sharing turns can be easily implemented with setting up redirection at your email account. I do so whenever I play a team game and\or want to share turns. This is pretty easy and needs to be done only once.
2. No warning that the game will soon be hosted
3. No notification of the new turn available
4. No way to view staling data\logs and other useful features available at llamaserver
5. I haven't yet found the way to view score tables. Perhaps they are available from web at Gandalf's server (I don't know) but they're definitely not included in the basic direct-connect engine. Also, a very useful thing.
6. It's really easy to make a mistake when playing by DC. Submitting something wrong by hitting wrong button is pretty easy. Discussable but that's my personal opinion & experience.
7. Regarding "ease of sharing turns". Have you noticed already that once you choose another nation to play, the .trn file of the previously played nation is deleted from the game folder? Thanks god, they don't delete .2h! Yes, it's very easy to share turns, but to have more than one at once you need to
a) download a turn
b) create another folder (with different name)
c) copy the .trn there
d) repeat 4 times
I already created a .bat file for this purpose. Perhaps I may live with it. But is it convenient? Eh, I doubt it not to say the less
8. You need to password protect your pretender while you definitely don't need it with llamaserver. When you have two view turns of 4 nations each turn and reenter the password each time you restart dominions, it's irritating not to say the less

So, all in all, playing by DC is... decent at best. Llamaserver offers much more and there's little chance to make a mistake. I greatly respect all the work Gandalf does for this game and for the whole community, all this is no way aimed against him. I just think that Dominions direct connect engine just sucks in comparison with Llamserver and is no way "cool".

[chrispedersen]

Chris's saga continues:
I am in my new place, however the landscapers cut both phone and internet. AT&T says it will take 7-10 to trench and lay new lines, since they have to trench through pavers and driveway.

In the interim, I trust Squirrel implicitly.

[Septimius Severus]

For those who maybe interested, I've completed my in-depth look at LA nations for game 3. I think I will go with 3 human teams (4 players each) and the 4 member AI team, plus maybe 1 merc nation. 12 or 13 human players total.

Each team gets their choice of several nations, I've listed them below in the order they meet the paths/themes. Path limits will be similiar to this game, 9+ in your team's paths, 3 or less in everything else. The genocidal AI team might be rainbow themed (level 6 or less in all paths).

Underworld Realm::evil: - Thematic Paths: Fire, Blood, Death

Themes: Devils, demons, darkness, undead, spirits, heat, hellfire, bloodlust, you get the picture.:)

Common unit attributes: Heat resistance, darkvision, H3/powerful preists, blood sacrifices, reanimation.

Nation Choices:

Abysia
Marginon
C'tis
Mictlan or Gath (not both)
Agartha

Earthly Realm::world: - Thematic Paths: Earth, Nature, Water

Themes: Humans, animals, creatures, plants, forests, mountains, lakes, dirt, rocks, sticks, etc.

Common Unit Attributes: Mountain/Forest/Swamp Survival, Assassins, Castle defense/seige/forge bonus, etc.

Nation choices:

Pangaea
Patala
Pythium
Jomon
Ulm
Man
Mictlan or Gath (whichever one is not taken by the Underworld Team)

Heavenly Realm::angel - Thematic Paths: Air, Astral, Water

Themes: Sky, stars, celestial magic, wind, snow, rain, ice, cold, storms, clouds, thunder, lightning, light, mental magic, temporal & dimensional magic, astrology, etc.

Common unit attributes: Cold resistance, fortune tellers, stealth troops, etc.

Nation choices:

Caelum
Midgard
Utgard
Bogarus
T'ien Chi'
Atlantis
Arco

AI gets whatever is left including choice of Ermor, R'lyeh.
Next up: Pretenders.

Comments, suggestions, balance experts?

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually very little of that has to do with whether its direct connect or pbem. Most of it has to do with the server and the person running the game. But basically everything available to one is available to the other if they want it. There is nothing about direct connect vs pbem which makes most of those things any different.

1) Not much reason this couldnt be accomplished the same way.
2) Also available in the same way. Thats a server thing, not specific to the mode.
3) Same again.
4) Same again.
5) Same again.

6) The only difference I see here is that "quick host" might be abit quicker with direct connect. So if you are the last person making the turn for that game then it might be harder to turn in another turn correcting your error. But if its a concern then direct connect can be done offline, and only connect when you are sure.

7) I believe that if you do all 4 at the same time instead of telling the game "I no longer play this one but instead play another" then the cleanup doesnt occur.

8) Im not sure if no-need to password protect is a good reason not to. But many people play on my server without it. Only occasionally have I ever had a complaint and that was even more rarely proven to be purposeful. In any case it was easily handled. I do see who does each turn.

The information files you refer to are a basic part of the game. The stats are by using the --statfile switch, and the scores from the --scoredump switch (already created in html webpage). Both are standard on all of my games, even the little blitz ones. I also often offer email notifications, email of turns, sms text messaging to cell phones, ftp, and a variety of other options for notification and turn handling.

While the LLama and Matryx servers have done wonderful jobs, they are both working with the same material. I tend to offer some extras like more switch support (such as for AI) or turning off the ability for players to go AI. I do admit that my server is hurt by the lack of a menu system. Its wide open for what the person running the game wants to do. If the various forums didnt already have me running over 100 active games I might fix that. But be cheered, if you choose to run a game on my server all of those options and more will be available. And I am usually available in the Chat (the link up by the Forums Rules on this page) if anyone has any questions about this.

[Septimius Severus]

There has been much hype about PBEM but really much of what is available via PBEM is available via Direct Connect (on Gandalf's Server anyway).

A lot of options I haven't chosen to yet implement (I've been busy getting the game going) are available via Gandalf's server including: E-mail notifications of hosting, e-mailing of turn files, staling data and score graphs (both systems do this outside of the game), e-mail sending of .trn files, etc.

Regarding multiple turn sharing, if the game does delete a .trn file when you switch nations (meaning you can't view 4 trn files like you say simulateously) and if you want to do it, why not just copy the .trns somewhere else as they come in and replace them in the same folder when you are ready to view all the trns at once? :o

[Septimius Severus]

Actually, correction to my above posts, you can actually select all of your teams nations to view at the same time and the comp will download all 4 .trn files. Just have to enter the same password 4 times (or different ones if you used a different team passwords, not recommended). At that time if you hit exit, you will see you have all 4 turns in the folder. You can now view those turns offline.

[ano]

chrispedersen
We'll be waiting for you!
Gandalf Parker
Actually I want to thank you very much for the job you're doing. I greatly appreciate it even though I rarely play. It's all your (and llama's) pure enthusiasm and I really, really appreciate this.
I do not want to say that something is good and something is bad, just expressing my opinion that basically without enhancements (a server and application) Dominions play-by-network system is very inconvenient. Llamaserver actually showed us how the things should have been done. And, frankly speaking, that would not be hard to implement inside the game. That's, once again, only my opinion.
Regarding this particular game, your custom AI options are very good, in my opinion. That's what is really useful to newer players. But if more options (at least something from what I mentioned above) are possible on your server than I'd definitely like it on in this game. Thanks in advance.
Septimius Severus
why not just copy the .trns somewhere else as they come in and replace them in the same folder when you are ready to view all the trns at once?
That's exactly what makes me cry. I described the steps a) b) c) -> repeat. Believe me, it's a lot less convenient then receiving 4 emails.

[Gandalf Parker]

I do not want to say that something is good and something is bad, just expressing my opinion that basically without enhancements (a server and application) Dominions play-by-network system is very inconvenient. Llamaserver actually showed us how the things should have been done. And, frankly speaking, that would not be hard to implement inside the game.
you mean something like this? :)
http://www.dom3minions.com/lab/MakeGame.htm
Thats from a year before LLamaserver. And Esben Mose Hansens server showed us before that. And Matryx has showed us what it should be. But they all fill a niche.

Everything has its pros and cons.

[Willburn]

Welcome, Willburn.

Your forum account is good to go. Team rosters updated.

Good luck and may the best team win. ;)

Thank you :)

[ano]

Everything has its pros and cons.
Yes, sure)

Btw, those AI + Atlantis are IMPRESSIVE...

[Wrana]

To chrispedersen:
Good luck!
For those who maybe interested, I've completed my in-depth look at LA nations for game 3. I think I will go with 3 human teams (4 players each) and the 4 member AI team, plus maybe 1 merc nation. 12 or 13 human players total.
...
Underworld Realm::evil: - Thematic Paths: Fire, Blood, Death
...

Abysia
Marginon
C'tis
Mictlan or Gath (not both)
Agartha
Abyssia and Gath are mentioned as old enemies. I would prefer that they do not belong to one team. And while LA Agartha is undead-oriented, I'd think that their connection to Earth is older and stronger (and there are few nations in LA without Death :) ).

Earthly Realm::world: - Thematic Paths: Earth, Nature, Water
...
Pangaea
Patala
Pythium
Jomon
Ulm
Man
Mictlan or Gath (whichever one is not taken by the Underworld Team)
Quite possibly. I'd say, in addition to Agartha question, that Jomon is probably may be also connected to Heavenly Realm - dragons, etc.

Heavenly Realm::angel - Thematic Paths: Air, Astral, Water
...
Caelum
Midgard
Utgard
Bogarus
T'ien Chi'
Atlantis
Arco

I'm also not sure that Midgard and Utgard belong to the same team - ancient enemies, too. Maybe Utgard would look better in Earth Realm? And not sure about LA Atlantis - maybe send them to Earth Realm? This would also bring advantage of giving amphibious nations to 2 teams...
About merc player - I already said that it would be good if they had a full range of spying/assassination abilities. Still not sure which LA nation would be best candidate, but maybe Ulm vampires? ;)

[chrispedersen]

thanks for the kind wishes, ano, wrana.

With utgard, midgard, caelum, and bogarus you have a very credible cold team.

With abysia, patala, gath, ctis and marignon you have a credible heat team.

With Rlyeh, mictlan, atlantis, you have an excellent water team. Jomon would be an interesting addition, although personally I consider them horrible.
Of course it would require *water*. Which would suggest a different map. But since you are having fewer players, a different map is probably in order.

Mictlan, ulm, pangea and bogarus make a very credible blood team.

[rdonj]

8) Im not sure if no-need to password protect is a good reason not to. But many people play on my server without it. Only occasionally have I ever had a complaint and that was even more rarely proven to be purposeful. In any case it was easily handled. I do see who does each turn.

For llamaserver games it is really for the best not to. Only the admin can change email addresses, so the only way to take a turn for a given nation is to send in turns from the email address the turns are attached to. There's really no need for an extra layer of security. And it would only add extra work for you each game, while making it (slightly) more of a hassle setting up subs. For a direct connect game I would always use a password, otherwise you're giving everyone the opportunity to look at your turns, even accidentally.

[Septimius Severus]

That's exactly what makes me cry. I described the steps a) b) c) -> repeat. Believe me, it's a lot less convenient then receiving 4 emails. As I mentioned, I was able to download all 4 .trn files for my team by selecting the 4 nations and hitting exit to go offline. All were in the same folder and could be viewed. They could also be played offline, which would generate .2hs which should not be deleted by the system according to what you have said. So if viewing 4 .trns at the same time is what your after it can be done quite easily, no need for a batch file.

[ano]

So if viewing 4 .trns at the same time is what your after it can be done quite easily, no need for a batch file.
When you hit "no, reselect nations" after having connected to server, any .trn files that previously were in the folder, are deleted

[Septimius Severus]

So if viewing 4 .trns at the same time is what your after it can be done quite easily, no need for a batch file.
When you hit "no, reselect nations" after having connected to server, any .trn files that previously were in the folder, are deleted
If your goal is just viewing all your team's CURRENT .trn files (not older ones) in one sitting, when a new turn becomes available, connect to the server, "hit no, reselect nations" select your four nations, enter passwords, hit exit and the new turns are available to be viewed and presumably played as well offline. If as you say they are deleted when you next connect, you can reselect them again or wait to connect until you have finished viewing what you need to view.

[ano]

Ok, the problem has been solved. I didn't know I could select more than 1 nation. Thanks, Septimius.

[Septimius Severus]

Ok, the problem has been solved. I didn't know I could select more than 1 nation. Thanks, Septimius.

Yep, that's the beauty of direct connect for team games. As long as you use the same team password (to make things easier, the shorter the better), any member should be able to view/play any other members turns easily. You could actually select all of the nations in the game if you are the admin or know the passwords and view/play them all offline. When a sub is needed there's no need to change a nation's e-mail address (and the have to change it back) via the Llamaserver menu.

Of course probably the same thing can be accomplished via PBEM with a common/shared team e-mail address or e-mail forwarding (I think Llamaserver lets you use the same e-mail addresses for different nations, but I am not sure, been awhile). But why move files around and worry about e-mail attachments when/if you don't have to?

Wrana and Chris thanks for your input on game 3.

Wrana, old enemies of course doesn't mean they can't be on the same team if they are thematically similar. Its sorta of a clash between Good/Evil with the Earth realm someone in the middle. :D

Atlantis could reprise their role as the merc if desired, assassins can be added easily via .map file or mod, though a rainbow nation might suit them better.

Chris, if I use another random land map, I may choose to exclude R'lyeh (and Atlantis starts on land in LA anyway).I will be sure to pepper in some mountain and freshwater masks though and perhaps a few underground lakes. Or I can look for a suitable pre-made map that includes an even distribution of sea provinces.

[Septimius Severus]

I see that Stagger has opened up another thread for our game on Sombre's forums (haven't been looking at it (the other forums) much). It's a love/hate relationship it seems and I've got detractors and supporters. Tell me something new! :D Critical perhaps, but it does provide an outlet, though it is painful to see the rifts in the community finally take their toll. I've always encouraged open civil debate and discussion though. Wherever it may take place. Squirrel, tell em to keep a spot open for me on the outlaw forums, in case I want do so some recruiting there for a future game. :) Hehehe.

[Stagger Lee]

I see that Stagger has opened up another thread for our game on Sombre's forums (haven't been looking at it (the other forums) much).

Not Sombre's forum, SS, a forum for people who just like to play this game. And you are welcome to join, post, and recruit without restrictions. Others are free to join your games or criticize your behavior as they please. It may sound a little rough, but it's working quite well.

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?act=idx

Come on by. And any level of player is welcome. Just try to bring a sense of humor, too. :)

Good luck with your game.

[Septimius Severus]

I see that Stagger has opened up another thread for our game on Sombre's forums (haven't been looking at it (the other forums) much).

Not Sombre's forum, SS, a forum for people who just like to play this game. And you are welcome to join, post, and recruit without restrictions. Others are free to join your games or criticize your behavior as they please. It may sound a little rough, but it's working quite well.

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?act=idx

Come on by. And any level of player is welcome. Just try to bring a sense of humor, too. :)

Good luck with your game.

If I visit, I will need a sense of humor, that much is true. :) Every one is entitled to their opinion of course, but I do think people should be civil in debate and though we may have disagreements, we should always try be as friendly as possible towards one another. I say mend fences, but if you can't/won't do that, then why hold grudges? That gets us nowhere as a community or as people. Frankly, I did not think I was considered important enough to have my own critique thread. I don't think we have another Overlords situation on our hands though, but it remains to be seen how the merc idea will work out.

I do think people ought to be able to organize/join simple games, complex games, vanilla or modded, PBEM or Direct Connect, etc, as they please, in an environment which is conducive to that freedom and that right. I had always considered the forums here to be that place, and I hope it will remain so.

I've a question for Gandalf since I am relatively new to direct connect myself, Gandalf, what are the boxes [-] next to certain nations I see when connecting. They don't seem to have to do with turn submission status (since I seem to have noticed them for nations with completed turns and uncompleted turns). Am I wrong and they are related to turn submission status or do they have to do with who is currently connected?

[Gandalf Parker]

You mean the chain links? Those mean "connection".
Altho the game is pretty bad at seeing disconnects so some people seem to be hanging on after they leave because they use the red X to quit instead of the games disconnect.

[Numahr]

Please, Septimus,

Give us an indication about where we stand in terms of timing, like a countdown to the end of this turn or a message every time we officially finish a turn with a clear indication of the delay until next one. Now I'm a bit lost :confused: , and I need to organize my time tightly as I'm starting a long trip inthe real world...

Thanks,
Numahr

[Septimius Severus]

Thanks Gandalf, that is what I thought it showed.

Numahr, the direct connect system has a built in internal countdown timer, that is displayed when you connect to the game and that tells you how long you have left till hosting. We will be at 32 hour turns till we hit turn 10. The turn may host earlier if all turns get in before the 32 hours is up. This is likely to be the case with these first few turns. I currently show us at turn 3 with 29 hours to go till forced/fixed hosting of the next turn. Again, the turn will host sooner if everyone gets their turns in before that.

At this early stage, I recommend, especially, if you feel you are in a situation where you may need the full amount of time (but you don't necessarily need a special delay) that players when they first connect for a new turn (you'll see the message 'receiving turn file') that you do not hit 'End Turn' until you are sure you are finished with the current turn. Instead, you can save your work and come back to it later by hitting 'quit and save' from the options menu. The only thing to remember is when your ready to come back and finish it, select your game from the 'play existing game' menu (don't go to the connect menu first) and then connect only when your actually finished with the turn. You can also hit 'quit without saving' if you only have time to glance at your turn.

Generally it is best to have quickhost/fasthost on in the very early turns, but if people want it shut off (so you get the full 32 or whatever) every time, just let me know and I will ask Gandalf about it.

[Wrana]

A Wight mage right next to my capital - interesting. Though quickly solved with mighty Ulm army, of course. ;)
To Septimius:
Yes, as I said, I think that rainbow nation is a better candidate for merc. And I don't think that adding to them spies & other option via map editing is the best solution. Of course, I see that Atlantis could be a good possible candidate due to their underwater safety. But in LA with R'lyeh present that isn't longer the case anyway.
To Stagger Lee:
Thanks, I may also pay a visit when I have time and inclination. ;)

[Septimius Severus]

Thanks, Wrana for the input. So you'd recommend a rainbow nation with native spies/assassins.

Nice job on that Wight mage and his cronies! :happy:

Got a link for score graphs:

http://navii.dom3minions.com/scores.html

And staling data:

http://navii.dom3minions.com/stats.txt

Will add to post on main page soon.

[ano]

How about staling data of previous turns? However that is not especially useful, of course, so never mind.

p.s. This crazy AI makes me nervous :) 3 Storm general prophets are just fun. And one of them is "the most feared killer of men"... What does all this mean?
And also, how could Atlantis capture 4 provinces in 4 turns. Did he have "free" empty provinces? There is not much sense in keeping this information secret now, IMO. Just curious

[Septimius Severus]

It means Genocide! :D

Just kidding. Glad your having fun.

I've got a rough external timer for those who want to check on the time left while outside of the game. It operates like the in-game timer (doesn't countdown minutes) but should give you an estimate of time left to next host (not to be used as a substitute for the in-game timer) and which nations have submitted turns so far.

Click on link and hit refresh button on your browser:

http://navii.dom3minions.com/bin/chk.cgi

If people really want the older score graphs and staling data, I can post a link for the directory instead of the current turns.

[Gandalf Parker]

The stale and score data will be kept in rotating files numbered 1-9

As for the AI, its supposed to make you nervous. Do NOT consider it the same as what you have played in solo games. That is referred to as vanilla AI (level 0)

In game one, the AI was level 3 (on a scale of 1 to 10). It was designed builds of god, magic, scales, along the lines of player files (what human players tend to do, not specialized for AI).

In this game the AI is level 6. Its designed more specifically around what the AI does or does not do well. In game one they were allied. But in this game they are much more fully allied. They can use each others troops, coordinate attacks, and have specific goals. We should not see any of the common complaints about the AI.

ByTheWay....
In game 3, the AI will be designed at a level of 10.

[Cammorak]

Well, after reading all this AI stuff, I think I need a change of underwear.

[Wrana]

Old staling data may be useful, by the way, to see whether the problem is chronic. And that's the main reason to know who stales: to see whether you should look for replacement before it's too late. :(
To Septimius on potential teams:
While it's surely possible for old enemies to ally (just look at European history of last centuries! :) ), it's still rare. And what I consider beautiful in Dominions nations is that there are almost never clearly Good ones (maybe MA Tien Chi. Maybe.), especially if we look up all 3 eras. And nations change in their outlook over time. Hinnom is clearly evil, but Ashdod less so. EA Ermor isn't (so) evil, but LA... ;) C'tis isn't evil per se, but Miasma makes it looking quite like it in MA. Abyssia becomes more evil over time. And so on. And in LA usage of Death and Blood magic doesn't make nation evil in and of itself: almost all practice one or the other... So while I agree with your idea of Heaven/Earth/Underworld teams, I suggest mixing them more by lines of traditional alliances and enmities.

[Septimius Severus]

Old staling data may be useful, by the way, to see whether the problem is chronic. And that's the main reason to know who stales: to see whether you should look for replacement before it's too late. :(That is true of course, especially in FFA games. In team games, I'd hope Captains would be in closer communication than that and should generally know if someone is staling on your team. Heh, but I'll post a link for the directory and you can browse all the files.


To Septimius on potential teams:
While it's surely possible for old enemies to ally (just look at European history of last centuries! :) ), it's still rare. And what I consider beautiful in Dominions nations is that there are almost never clearly Good ones (maybe MA Tien Chi. Maybe.), especially if we look up all 3 eras. And nations change in their outlook over time. Hinnom is clearly evil, but Ashdod less so. EA Ermor isn't (so) evil, but LA... ;) C'tis isn't evil per se, but Miasma makes it looking quite like it in MA. Abyssia becomes more evil over time. And so on. And in LA usage of Death and Blood magic doesn't make nation evil in and of itself: almost all practice one or the other... So while I agree with your idea of Heaven/Earth/Underworld teams, I suggest mixing them more by lines of traditional alliances and enmities.

Thanks for your suggestions Wrana, of course I am just kidding about the evil thing (my choices for teams are larely path based (not based on evil, hot/cold, old enemies, or anything of the sort) each team has real specific magic strengths and weaknesses like in the current game.

In my earlier post (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=745943&) I would give each team a choice of more than 4 nations to choose from, they only need to pick 4. So the Underworld team can choose 4 of the 6 nations listed, they don't necessarily need to take Agartha or Gath, etc.

True Agartha is generally in the same realm as Ulm earth wise, but the magic path nature of nations changes over time and that's what my choices are based primarily on (that and native gem income). In that respect LA Agartha has a slightly greater leaning toward the Underworld realm with a greater regular (non random) magic in both fire and death (2F,5E,6D,H4)= Combined mage and gem income levels, than Ulm.

Ulm changes quite a bit in LA, has much less earth, gets a tiny bit of blood, etc and is more versatile (5S,2D,1N,1B,1E,H4). They've got more Astral than anything else, so kinda difficult to place em. I also looked at common attributes like Dark Vision and Heat Resistance, Seige/Forge bonus, a bit. So feel free to look back at the post and tell me how you'd reallign the choices or if you want to go further give me your ideal 4 nation picks for each realm. That might be better than giving choices, though at least you've got some limited freedom of choice with my method. ;)

I'm posting links for the external timer and score graphs/staling data directories on the opening post of this thread. Having an external timer posted has both benefits and drawbacks in terms of turn submission speed IMO, but it is helpful nonetheless. We are currently still on turn 3 it looks like.

[Numahr]

It means Genocide! :D

I've got a rough external timer for those who want to check on the time left while outside of the game.

Thanks a lot! I can check where I stand from office or airport with this, even if I can't launch the game. Very useful for me to organize my time :)

[Jorus]

Is there any way to get e-mail notification of turns having been made. It's rather cumbersome to keep logging in to the Dom 3 network or checking the timer link.
I'm not at the computer all day and just check the e-mail status occasionally.
Could the server issue a notice, or even a posting on this thread would be forwarded to my e-mail.
Jorus

[AlgaeNymph]

I'm not at the computer all day and just check the e-mail status occasionally.I am at the computer all day, and I want auto-notification too.

:party:We want convenience!:party:

[ano]

Yeah, we'd like that too!

[Gandalf Parker]

Lots of different notification options are available
Simply PM me or email gandalf at community.net with an email address. (and please mention that its for the NaVII game)
I can also have the game text message your cell phone.

[Septimius Severus]

Well, after reading all this AI stuff, I think I need a change of underwear.

Cammorak, I'm ashamed of you! :shock: Your Ashdod afterall, and besides, what would our Lord Crom say if you were to soil yourself before battle has even been joined? :D

[Cammorak]

How dare you presume cowardice on the part of the mighty giants? I was referring to my steel boxer-briefs as these leather jockies have neither the coverage nor durability required for intense combat.

[ano]

5 hours left till hosting. Maybe someone of you usurpers does turn for Arco so that he doesn't occasionally stale?

[Willburn]

I did my turn but one of my teammates viewed the turn and did changes. Its uploaded again.

[Wrana]

Now I see one of Gandalf's AIs. Gandalf, are you crazy?! :lol:
And I expect they are set to "aggressive", neh? ;)

[zegc-ben]

I have done an updated list of prices, you can see it in the team forum.

[Gandalf Parker]

Now I see one of Gandalf's AIs. Gandalf, are you crazy?! :lol:
And I expect they are set to "aggressive", neh? ;)
I did what was asked. For a long time people have been putting down the AI. I have tried to point out that is the vanilla AI and that many ways existed to boost it. Finally someone actually asked me to get off my soapbox and make one.

As usual for me, this is not even a good example. Just a bare bones proof-of-concept. The NaV II AI doesnt even have half of what I meant to test and include. But I suspect it will be enough to drastically show there is a difference between this and vanilla computer players.

But crazy? You aint seen crazy yet. Thats scheduled to be NaV III.

[ano]

Now I see one of Gandalf's AIs. Gandalf, are you crazy?! :
And I expect they are set to "aggressive", neh?
They are only level 6, so be happy they are not 10. :) :)
I especially like Eriu.
Alliance against AI, guys?

[Wrana]

They are only level 6, so be happy they are not 10. :) :)
I especially like Eriu.
Alliance against AI, guys?
I think that was what Septimius intended. So yes, by all means! ;)
To Gandalf:
Thanks a lot! :)
By the way, how much of it may be implemented by player without knowing it all beforehand? Meaning - set up something dangerous in SP?

[ano]

So yes, by all means!
Ok, as Man is our common neighbor and enemy we'll be happy to coordinate actions against him. I think, in a three\four turns turns we might be able to oppose him.

[Gandalf Parker]

[quote=ano;746217]
By the way, how much of it may be implemented by player without knowing it all beforehand? Meaning - set up something dangerous in SP?
Unfortunately very little :(
That is covered in the threads about why the Scenario options in Dom3 are broken. Much of it requires manual steps and server mode. So as long as that much work is done, it might as well be an MP game also.

The things I have discovered, I will be discussing with Ballbarian so we can try to incorporate some of them into the SemiRand program. Which (shameless ad) still needs more player-created small design files in order to make it fully usable. When I feel that all of the surprises have been found I plan to donate the works on this game to it.

[Septimius Severus]

I have done an updated list of prices, you can see it in the team forum.

Thanks Zegc.

Can't blame all of what you might find on the nefarious Gandalf. :D The magic locations and static AI present there were done by yours truly. But Gandalf's AIs are sheer genius! :)

Looks like Ano's crafty crew is already pulling out ahead in the score graphs, at least in terms of expansion. Will the bullseye, so desired by Ano, on the backs of the Supplicants widen? Only time will tell.

[Septimius Severus]

By the way, how much of it may be implemented by player without knowing it all beforehand? Meaning - set up something dangerous in SP?

There are some things you can do in SP to give yourself a bit more AI challenge though, set AIs to impossible, aggressive mood, increase the multiples, lower the strength of indies, perhaps make use of the BI mod, handicap yourself, etc.

[ano]

Looks like Ano's crafty crew is already pulling out ahead in the score graphs, at least in terms of expansion.
Let's look
Provinces
Eriu 10
T'ien Ch'i 8
Atlantis 7
C'tis 5

Army Size
Eriu 1028
T'ien Ch'i 721
Atlantis 391
C'tis 208


Yes, we're ahead of the whole planet..;)

[Septimius Severus]

Hehe, the AI and perhaps Atlantis will remain the score graph leaders for awhile. That much was expected. ;) The Deva's Den forum can also be used as a place to coordinate attacks on the AI between teams. May be more convenient.

[Septimius Severus]

Interesting battle I witnessed. C'tis vs. a number of indy heavy horse. Thought C'tis was going to lose their Prince of Death for a minute there. :shock: Was down to some 30 odd hitpoints before the indies routed, largely due to the fear.

[ano]

That was a mistake of mine. I attacked a stack of 20 units, militias, knights and longbowmen. And there appeared to be 36 of them,mainly knights :) Should have thought better before attacking but I was really lucky in the end, that's true

[zegc-ben]

About alliance of the the human players against the AI, I am planning on putting up a special offer for AI backstabbing which will basically be something like a very low price but I keep the land I take.

[Wrana]

About alliance of the the human players against the AI, I am planning on putting up a special offer for AI backstabbing which will basically be something like a very low price but I keep the land I take.
That's very interesting! We are waiting. ;)

[chrispedersen]

uhuh.. so you want us to pay for what exactly?

[zegc-ben]

Basically you pay for me to attack the AI that fits you best instead of helping another team.

[Septimius Severus]

That is pretty much a given. No team is going to pay for an attack on the AI unless it benefits them (is in province they want to clear out or a province on their border to assist with expansion). Though under the rules, generally that province belongs/is the responsibility of the client to claim. Of course Zegc may be saying that any attack on an AI that is giving you problems is good, and there is some truth in that, though keeping the land is a bit different.

What is happening I suspect is that Atlantis is reaching their maximum expansion level under the rules (perhaps the motivation behind Zegc's offer). This was actually expected and planned. With 270 provinces we've got about 12-13 provinces per player. Zegc (actually doing suprisingly well) will probably top out at around 20 provinces (maybe more if Atlantis is willing to go into non-contigious areas to grab indies). At that point, the rules provide that Atlantis will be able to launch attacks to regain lost provinces thus maintaining a relatively stable number of provinces.

Keep in mind, Atlantis only needs enough provinces to give it a decent amount of gems and income to enable it to do it's job of serving the needs of the human teams. The mercs are not intended to be a major player in the game (in terms of grabbing up a large amount of provinces) and should have no ambitions towards winning. The Merc's don't align themselves with any specific team and have no alliegences except to gold.

The ability of Atlantis to survive in the long run (after the AI has been dealt with) will depend on the merc's ability to make itself useful enough to human players that they won't feel the need to wipe them off the face of the map for the VPs or territory they may control. Thus I don't want them to have a huge amount of territory or otherwise compete in a major way with the human teams.

Atlantis can gain some provinces above this threshold under the rules by retaining unclaimed provinces. I also suggested loansharking (defaulting on a loan in particular) as another possible method, but overall Atlantis is not meant to be an ubernation nor necessarily a permanent fixture of the game.

[Numahr]

Hum Septimus... I think of a lot of examples in history of powers that were not meant to be :doh: ... Give them some power, and they will look for ways to get more... that is almost a natural rule of human beings and human organizations.

So let's see what will happen with this one, almost an experiment in political sociology! :cool:

[Septimius Severus]

Could be that. Heh, also likely some teams might need some help vs. the AI and the merc sees the need and responds like any savvy business. The most useful military services will likely be:

Attack any Team for x number of turns options, which has Atlantis attacking any of the available provinces of a client's enemy (AI or human) within reach. If I were the merc I'd lower the prices on these, maybe offer a 1 turn contract option.

The targeted attack services on a specific province are much more risky and difficult for the merc, so I'd probably raise the price on those.

You can already give the merc the province taken in such attacks by simply not claiming it, but if Zegc wants to offer an option that lets him retain the provinces for a greatly reduced cost, temporarily or permanently, that's up to him. Maybe excess Atlantean provinces can be rented out or something for certain amount a year! :D

[Septimius Severus]

Speaking of the AI, I am posting a poll up on our forums on how you rate the difficulty of the AI, here are the choices:

1. Hah! The AI is a joke! :lol
2. The AI is not difficult at all really. :cool:
3. This AI is formidable, but can be beaten. :shock:
4. I need help, the AI is too powerful! :eek:
5. I want my Mommy! :cry:

[Wrana]

Speaking of the AI, I am posting a poll up on our forums on how you rate the difficulty of the AI, here are the choices:

My answer for now is:
What was it?! IT breezed alongside me so fast! :?

[zegc-ben]

My current answer is : Pantocrator ! Tens of mamouths and hundreds of good indies : what am I supposed to do !

For the discussion about my initial position giving me to much ambition, I am not hoping to win this game and I will not spoil the balance by making non symetric offer and going to activelly for the win. Yet I will play to maximize the mercs power and if I were able to grow as large as a full team I will do it (but this will not append). About number of provinces you would be afraid of the expansion rate around my capital : look at the score graphs and think that I am in the middle of the 4 AI. I am vey far away from grabing 20 provinces, even if I do manage to attack the AI and keep the provinces.

[Septimius Severus]

Zegc, it's cool with me long as you abide by the basic merc rules (no attacking AI or human teams unless under contract or being paid, etc), you have a good amount of latitude in what you can do. I'm sure you have ambition but I am not really worried about your expansion yet. If it becomes an obstacle or issue in the future, the teams can shrink ya down to size if they have to. :D

Glad to see nobody wants their momma vs the AI. ;)

But, next game, really will be:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Shaddam_corrino_iv.jpg

Genocide!
The deliberate and systematic slaughter of all human players. :eek: No more leniency from Gandalf, I expect. No mercy. No quarter. :D

[Squirrelloid]

I cannot comment on the AI - I haven't seen a real combat involving it yet. Giving all the AIs mammoths to start with is just silly, however. For shame.

[Septimius Severus]

Though there are many things we can do (and are doing in this series) to make the AI more challenging, as far as I know we still cannot really change the predictable and seemingly stupid (to us) behaviour of the AI in terms of the way it actually uses its units, spells, and the specific combat mechanics. A starting army is only a temp advantage, but I believe Gandalf has gone further by giving the AI more staying power this time around and with certain of these foreign national units being recruitable by the AI throughout the game. Rest assured though, if your one of those players who long to be have your butt kicked by the AI, we will do all we can in the future to try to accomodate you. ;)

[ano]

One comment regarding AI.
Really, guys, it's just boring. Having signed up for the multiplayer game, we now have to invent anti-uber-AI tactics. If I wanted to play against AI, I'd play a local single player game which I played maybe 2 times total. Or I could join one of Gandalf's anti-AI games... But this is just not interesting. And also, it teaches your beloved "noobs" nothing because generally in a normal multiplayer game the things are different. While some addition of AI in a game like this could be interesting (that's what I thought of when I was signing up here), an "all-vs-AI" game is not fun at all. That's my opinion. If I knew this before the start, I would leave.

[Septimius Severus]

Ano, the core of this game (and the most exciting part IMO) will always remain the human vs human part. Feel free to ignore the AI if you desire or feel you can do so. The goal of the AI is to present a greater challenge than you'd face against simple static level 9 indies and/or your run of the mill AI.

There are actually three stages to the game, expansion vs. indies, expansion vs. AI, human vs human, but the order this happens in doesn't necessarily always follow that course. But the team that does best in the first two stages will have an advantage against the other teams. So it does have a long term strategic purpose.

[ano]

I strongly doubt that the core of this game will be human vs human. We shall see who is right, of course. What I see now is endless AI hordes and until you have a decent sc or at least a good thug (or a good bless which nearly noone has here) there's absolutely no chance to do anything with this AI. Also, considering enormous castles, research and gem income the AI is given, at best we may reach human-vs-human phase at about turn 30 (very unlikely, IMO). Ok, that's my forecast.
Frankly speaking, I'm not much interested in such gaming. But ok, what's done is done.

[Septimius Severus]

The core of game 1 (I am not talking time wise) was human versus human, don't see why game 2 should be any different although we have less players (unless Gandalf has created AIs which cannot be overcome at all, which I doubt). Your prediction pretty much meshes with the weak AI in game 1. Still, every player has their own interests and dislikes. The AI will be defeated a lot faster if teams coordinate attacks. In the meantime, though this lets noobs actually do some research and explore the game some, while they build up.

[ano]

Each concept has its pros and cons, of course. I just wanted to say that such game concept is not interesting to me in particular and to the whole team in general. And a side opinion, Gandalf's 10 level mega-AI in game 3 will totally eliminate any interest for the most part of the people who could have joined it.
That's all, I won't raise this point anymore until, maybe, I get totally tired.