AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent

[JLS]

Hi, Desdinova.

Have not heard from you in a while, you have been missed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Good point, there is a monthly Commercial income Value you receive from the Trade Centers that increases with Industry Techs, and at a high level this may be a good facility as an alternative to a Research Expedition or Intel Facility for a scrub planet.

Either way, a Human Player will absolutely need at least ONE in Finite and or any No Warp AIC Game.

But, you may get much more Bang for your Buck with Colonial Settlements making ready for the upgrade to Towns and Cities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

----

I cannot wait until you try v3.00;~ Desdinova http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

AIC plays a little is faster, and the AI is a little tamer (just a little http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif with none = bonus and you now have Temporal Cities… Not to mention a special City for every Race.

[ June 06, 2003, 19:05: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

When I play temporal, I consistently go overboard with radioactives during first 50-100 turns. There is simply not many thing with high radio cost in the beginning. May be make temporal space yards cost even more radio and less minerals ?

[ June 06, 2003, 15:56: Message edited by: oleg ]

[JLS]

EDIT:
If you are not Playing Finite, I do not understand. What is the Problem, with Surplus Recourses? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

In Finite, you will be soon Struggling to maintain any income; building Urban Structures, Colony ships, etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

----

The Rads that you ask to be tacked on the Temporal BSY, however will cost players increased RAD maintenance and usage to build.
Besides, once its built your back to the near same Rad income as before http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Trust me, you will need every Rad you can get in Finite Play when playing Temporal or Crystal.

Also in Finite, you need to invest Urban City Development early so you may have Rads in the End Game, and this takes Rads to Make Rads as the saying goes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As your Temporal Weapons increase so, will your Rad Expenditures. This will be a resource struggle in all forms of play.

Oleg, I suggest you further increase your Empire Storage the Old Fashion way, Build Resource Storage facilities they are really xtra quick in AIC to build, please check them out for an early scrub build http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In Finite, and Non Finite to a less degree, building Urban Structures, the Empire Storage really starts to add up.

Trade Centers help in trading Surplus Resources for Needed recourses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

One of the best investments a Human Player can make with Surplus Resources in AIC is Tribute or Gifts to the AI Players

AI Campaigns v3.01 will be ready in a few Hours.

This will have an increased Empire Storage as we Discussed earlier.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 23:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

Duh... I get spoiled by Proportions and almost forget about storage facilities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I guess I should go back to basics in resource management. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[JLS]

No, Duh, needed. I forget too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I wanted to retain some econmics from se4 and build AIC also with our favorite Proportions MOD; in mind http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 22:12: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

=====================
AI CAMPAIGN v3.01a Update
=====================

Intel Projects:
Expanded the Psychic Intel Projects, some available at Psychic Studies level one. (v1a)
Revised some AI and Human Player Intel Projects with multiplayer considerations.

Quadrant Maps:
*NEW~Three more Centurion Systems created total now 4.
More Centurion Systems may appear in each new game.
Revised most Quadrant Maps to be a little more AI friendly.
Added a few special items for the systems.
Added a few more Moons to the Systems

Interface:
Reorganized quadrant menu.

Conceptual:
This update further reduces AI early expansion, in most none to Low bonus games.
Reduced AI starting Intel points 25%.
Restructured Resource Storage for Human Players.

Facilities:
Added Crystalline (RAD) Value Improvement Plants ~GLV
Removed the ability for Human Players to build Psychic Meditation Retreats.
Psychic Intelligence Center 1 and 2 levels are available with just Psychic Technology.

Vehicles:
Improved the smaller War Ship Maneuverability modifiers for the Human Players.
Added new Medium Star Liner Images to Extras Folder ~GLV

Components:
Lowered Robo-Miners size so extra supply may be installed on Small Transport.
Rad Robos may have Three Per Vehicle now.

Notes:
Intel Projects went into Psychic beta 1.
Starting Empire Point Storage Increased about 33% for all Human Player Races ~Oleg

----------------
DOWNLOADS

AIC Version 3.01a Update files only.
Updates AIC 3.00 Versions, Only .

AIC v3.01a update, will NOT break existing v3.00 saved games)

-----
Psychic Intel Update v1a.
Updates ALL AIC Versions .
(size 14kb)
-----

Please download AI Campaign v3.01 Complete if you never received your copy of Version 3 - AIC goes Multiplayer .

LINK > AIC v3.01a < (http://www.johnlsullivan.net/)

~
In simultaneous games: After Updating or Patching, it is recommended that you log into the Host and then end your turn. The game will start you right were you left off. Please check your designs and if they are fine, you are good to go!
~

[ June 09, 2003, 13:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

[cybersol]

Originally posted by JLS:
Thank you, Cybersol http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

A detailed list on probable AI reactions to scenarios can get quite extensive.

If you have a few AI related scenario questions in mind, please, by all means post, and we will see what you and I can come up with.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know a detailed list could be quite extensive. But it seems that everyone who steps up to the plate and starts to learn how to modify the AI has to a lot of test cases to figure everything out. We all do it, and for the most part each of us does some of the same work over and over again. For modding the data files there are excellent tools (DavidG's comes to mind) available that rapidly speed up the progress. For the AI, there is little help, but some things like Attrakius's AI_DesignCreation_CheatSheet have been extremely useful. I was thinking about a similar little document that would encapsulate your extensive knowledge on AI state switching. The format might be something like:

Current State: Exploration
Changes to: Infrastructure if
1: Other Players Seen & Enemy Near
2: Other Players Seen & No Unexplored System Nearby
Changes to: Defend (Short Term) if
XXX
YYY

What do you think? In any case I'm sure I'll have many questions for you if you have the time and energy to help me out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 20:17: Message edited by: cybersol ]

[Tampa_Gamer]

Ah Geez, I just get a game going with AIC 3.0, and here comes another Version! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif J/K - great job guys from what I have seen so far, it is like playing a whole new game. As to the comment below about AI states, Mephisto and I were trying to find an old post the Aaron had done to this effect on the beta test forum. Unfortunately, I think Shrapnel deleted it. We will continue to look for it or if I find my testing notes, I will paste them here.

Later
-TG

[JLS]

Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer:
Ah Geez, I just get a game going with AIC 3.0, and here comes another Version! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif J/K - great job guys from what I have seen so far, it is like playing a whole new game. As to the comment below about AI states, Mephisto and I were trying to find an old post the Aaron had done to this effect on the beta test forum. Unfortunately, I think Shrapnel deleted it. We will continue to look for it or if I find my testing notes, I will paste them here.

Later
-TG<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow, thanks... Tampa_Gamer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

v3.01 is just a small update and it won't break a v3.00 game...

Great on the AI States, this can come in handy.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by cybersol:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JLS:
Thank you, Cybersol http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

A detailed list on probable AI reactions to scenarios can get quite extensive.

If you have a few AI related scenario questions in mind, please, by all means post, and we will see what you and I can come up with.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know a detailed list could be quite extensive. But it seems that everyone who steps up to the plate and starts to learn how to modify the AI has to a lot of test cases to figure everything out. We all do it, and for the most part each of us does some of the same work over and over again. For modding the data files there are excellent tools (DavidG's comes to mind) available that rapidly speed up the progress. For the AI, there is little help, but some things like Attrakius's AI_DesignCreation_CheatSheet have been extremely useful. I was thinking about a similar little document that would encapsulate your extensive knowledge on AI state switching. The format might be something like:

Current State: Exploration
Changes to: Infrastructure if
1: Other Players Seen & Enemy Near
2: Other Players Seen & No Unexplored System Nearby
Changes to: Defend (Short Term) if
XXX
YYY

What do you think? In any case I'm sure I'll have many questions for you if you have the time and energy to help me out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely, Cybersol.

I am sure you and I can work out any AI situation.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 06, 2003, 22:43: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

FYI: You might want to look at the intelprojects.txt file and you will see that there are two anarchy Groups and I think one of them might of been for the ai_balance_tech but it says human_balance_tech. The new Version looks great.

SunDevil

[JLS]

Thanks, Sundevil... I'm on it now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks again SD, you are right on, the lower one belongs to the AI Balance Tech.

Players need not be in a rush to patch, this is only denied to the AI at this time. I will give the file a thrice over in the morning, and have a little patch out then.

-----

Intel is not a strength for me, ANY help that can be offered, would be dandy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

For example, do you think I could improve the order of Psychic Intel’s, additions, subtractions anything not too intrusive and nothing destructive.

In your opinion of overall Intel in general, the strengths and weakness on any particular costs and/or project, good or bad for the AI?

[ June 07, 2003, 03:02: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

Originally posted by JLS:
...Players need not be in a rush to patch, this is only denied to the AI at this time. I will give the file a thrice over in the morning, and have a little patch out then.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ha ! Too late now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif That’s ok Oleg, the AI should be fine with out the anarchy Groups Project, if you choose not to Patch, the Intel Project File http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
For the most part unless the Human is a Psychic Race it is unlikely you can hurt him with this project until later in the game, and at that point, there are better projects for you to attack with any way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

EDIT:
However, this next update v1a, will lower the:

Counter - Intelligence Levels for the AI players, is programmed now for Solitaire play. This setting is less advantageous, for the AI then the previous Multiplayer settings in v1.

[ June 08, 2003, 00:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Thanks, Grand Lord Vito http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Just received your E-Mail and these are great suggestions for the new Intel Projects update.

Programming most of them now; any more ideas please post or send more mail http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The file should be done and Posted in a few hours….
EDIT:
Make that 3 Hours.
The wife, has a few chores for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Thanks again; ~GLV

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 07, 2003, 16:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

=====================
Psychic Intel Update v1a.
Updates ALL AIC Versions .
=====================

Changes from v1:
Ship Bomb: Increased to 60 ~GLV

Engine Damage: Is now a Human Players Project only

Sabotage Ship 2: Lower Cost almost 25% for all players

Sabotage Ship 3: Lowered Cost almost 33% for all players

Crew Rotation: Human Players Lowered Cost to se4 defaults of only 5000 and doubled the effect.

Crew Rotation: AI players Cost is Double that, and only have 1/2 the effect of the Human Players.

Disinformation: Reduced the Cost by 50% for all Players

Food Contamination: Human Players is set for se4 default costs with enough effects to take out a new Colony

Anarchy Groups: Fixed for AI and updated; ~SunDevil,
AI now has access. Lowered cost for Humans almost 50% and decreased the AI effects.

Counter - Intelligence: Decreased the effects for the AI players.

-----
Note:
Food Contamination:
~TIP~ Good to hit the AI or another Human Player with this when he starts a new colony. If successful, you should starve that Player off the Planet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Ground Contamination, Weather Disruptions has PreReq of Tectonic Engineering as it applies and in this way, both Projects can be removed from Play (AIC v3.00+) thru the in [new game / Technology Areas allowed] menu. Click Tectonic Engineering.

Intelligence moduale for non Psychic Players can be removed from Play thru the in [new game / Technology Areas allowed] menu.

Ship Bomb: The ships Engineering Sections damage control (if installed on the ship) should handle any damages from this project http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Counter - Intelligence Levels for the AI players, is programmed now for Solitaire play. This setting is less advantageous for the AI; then the previous Multiplayer setting.

The next AI release for AI Campaign will be programmed as such; that some AI Races will be more susceptible to Intel then others, and that one or two AI’s may be superior.
Xiati will be the first AI race to look out for.

Psychic Intel plus the Centurians Dead System

>>>1055034519.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1055034519.zip)<<<

~
~~
~

[ June 08, 2003, 13:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Alternate for Centurion Dead System ~Beta~

Link below (size 23k) this also includes Psychic Intel v1a.

>>>1055034519.zip (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1055034519.zip)<<<

Please let me know, your thoughts?

[ June 08, 2003, 14:00: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by cybersol:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JLS:
IF the AI is in the Exploration State and IF=(n) THEN the AI may switch to the Infrastructure State.

1: Other Players Seen & Enemy Near
2: Other Players Seen & No Unexplored System Nearby<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hello, JLS. You seem to have learned a lot about the AI state switching. Could you look over this thread (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009214)? If you know a lot more about this, I would love to hear it. Maybe you could summarize what you know and post a cheatsheet on AI states. Any assistance would be appreciated!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, how did you learn so much about AI programming, when you have said, “you fix refrigerators for a living”?

[JLS]

Basically, I learned a lot of the AI by designing the Abbidon for PvKs Proportion mod. I became awestruck by; if this is done, the AI will do that. I mostly could not stop playing and tinkering with the AI trying to see if I could make it jump thru hoops.

When I started AI Balance Last summer, over time, I could anticipate what the AI would do, find its weaknesses then try to improve it the best I could for AI Campaign.

When, I would be stuck, or could not figure something out, I would Email Aaron Hall, now this was the beginning of Last year, so he must have had time, because in the half dozen emails I sent including the one this year, Aaron replied the same day. The Last reply Aaron sent was on a SUNDAY, talk about a work ethic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Matter of fact, it was Aaron that explained the inner workings of AI States and the Political Files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

That is, to say… Trial and error on my part and good support from Malfador Machinations http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 08, 2003, 18:55: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by JLS:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer:
[qb]Ah Geez, I just get a game going with AIC 3.0, and here comes another Version! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif J/K - great job guys from what I have seen so far, it is like playing a whole new game.

Later
-TG<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, TG.

I am going to slow the Versions down… The wife is starting to think, I would much rather tinker with AIC; then to tinker with her http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 08, 2003, 18:54: Message edited by: JLS ]

[mottlee]

Bug???? V- 2.9 Phrong has had several fleet/ships go into and out of mine fields W/O going BOOM and there where no sweepers in the group http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[oleg]

He,he,he !! AI has build in mine sweepers into ship hulls. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I tried to protect my system in the game I am writing about - BAD idea, Xi'Chung zipped through my puny minefield.

[JLS]

FYI for new AIC players. Regarding Minefields

Excerpt from AIC MOD Info:
AI balance allows the AI and Human Players to have some specific Components, Vehicles, and Abilities. Some examples are: the AI better handles mines now , point to point re-supply, faster ship training, sector scanning, Stellar manipulations, combating Plagues to name a few and does not use our fun stuff like; star liners, low level Master Computers etc.
~~~

Yes, most AI Players will blow thru a 100 Minefield with a large fleet …. Just like, you would expect a capable Human Player opponent would.

Pre Light Cruisers age Fleeting for the AI:
50+ Scouts will blow thru a 100 Minefield
25+ Escorts
17+ Frigates
7+ Destroyers

About when the AI Player starts fleeting Light Cruisers especially Carriers, you can expect the AI to clear Minefields 100%, when fleeted with a CV and escorts vessels . Just like, you would expect a good Human Player opponent would.

That is not to say, the AI will not make mistakes or loose many a good ship; Scouting, or a few Capital ships returning to or from a yard or refuel base (as a Human player may)

===

Please keep this in mind; the higher the Computer Bonus the faster the AI will fleet Light Cruisers and Carriers. When this happens the less effective your minefields will become.

[ June 09, 2003, 12:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
I tried to protect my system in the game I am writing about - BAD idea, Xi'Chung zipped through my puny minefield.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Hive had Light Cruiser a long while ago (suspect from a Ruin) Therefore, I do not expect the hive to get to Cruisers any time soon.

I new you were in for fight for the game then, but not before I found out you where against the Xi'Chung Hive in the first place.

~

Playing against the Hive in AIC, may be like playing against the most Notorious Multiplayer Person you know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ June 09, 2003, 01:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by mottlee:
Bug???? V- 2.9 Phrong has had several fleet/ships go into and out of mine fields W/O going BOOM and there where no sweepers in the group http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mottlee, this is not a bug. Please see below FYI post.

With AIC v3.00+, the AI develops Slower in Computer Bonus Games [NONE]...

With the Human evolution Rate is extremely faster in AIC v3.00+.

Please refer to the v3.00 Posted Release Info Below.

[ June 09, 2003, 01:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

The probable final Version for AIC will be v4.00 for se4 v184…
I am still compiling the ReadMe File for AIC. Following will be some of the text.
-------------------------------------------------
STARTING YOUR FIRST FEW AIC v3.0+ GAMES

Neutrals for the most part are always good

After they become warm to you. Offer a trade of 50k of resources a Comm Link even your Colonizer Tech - any one; should trade for their Colonizer Tech http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Neutrals also offer the Human Player large monthly dividends through Trade and Research Treaties. Refueling rights, not to mention somebody to pick when the time suits you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~
Small Quadrants with many AI. The AI will soon be crowded and all but the most Serine may decide for the expansion fight. You will end up on the AI hit list in this style game. (Not recomended fore new AIC Players)

~
For your first AIC v3.0+ game:
Play a Standard default Setup.
You may want a Medium or Large Default top Map at first.
With Low to Medium AI Player Count.
Low to Medium AI Difficulty selection.
Absolutly NONE in Computer BONUS.

In the Advanced Traits when you Edit your Race, you are Required to choose the *top HUMAN Trait* and then please take the FREE options of 1 and 2 as well as any other choices you may want.

Please, further take any or ALL the FREE MP Handicapping choices to help you build the Empire you are comfortable with. (All 3 MP) would be a bonus of 1000 Points to you - The AI does not mind, so don't you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

For 3000 Points - AI Campaign has a lot to offer the Dual Racial Trait Human Player . Any Combination is very good. Please check out each of your Population Centers on your Home World, when your game starts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~~~~~
PLEASE NOTE: The ending AI Traits are reserved for the AI, and will break your game if you choose any inadvertently.
~~~~~

Start building a Scout or two, a few Base Ship Yards, Colonizers etc.
You will need many star liners.

If you find you are neighbors with an Aggressive race, be prepared http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Important starting researches are, Ship Construction 2 and 3.
Military Science for Point Defence.
Construction so the Colonies will build with further designs.
Propulsion 2 is good for the Scouts to install efficient engines.
Ship Yard Techs for faster build rates if you are not Temporal Race.

Any research path is fine, above are just a few absolutely needed base line Techs, in AIC.

In regards to the Best overall Race Package in AIC, the choice may arguably be the Crystallurgy Racial Trait then the Temporal Race.

If you like Intel Projects, the Psychic Racial Trait may be for you.

Organics as expected, will give you a fine war footing. Also, there are abondent organic resource in AIC for the even the most rapacious of the Organic Species http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

You may also find that the AI in AIC to be very interactive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
=================================================
Suggested AI Computer Bonus Levels in AIC:

None: All first time Players. MP Handicap per your se4 Experience.

Low: With good AIC Economics and you start beating the AI Regularly. Also opens more options for the AI in No Warp Games. Remember to reset your MP Handicapping, the AI is tougher.

Medium: Very Competitive in No Warp Games in other games the AI is Extremely Tough with this setting. Good for most Multiplayer LAN or PBEM Games, with many Human Players.

High: Only a few Multiplayer games may require this setting.

The AI curb does and will increase, as the game Years tick by.
Each Bonus Level also will increase this AI Curb.

(The during game AI Curb advance is different then the In Game Bonus, and is fully Programable in AIC. To start and to End. Even to reverse itself for Finite)

=================================================

The best way to start with Centurion rich Systems is to generate one to your liking from the in game Quadrant menu with the Centurion Ruins map (AIC v3.01+). You may generate one to a few hundred Systems from this map… In addition, it is great for a one on one game as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I recommend you set the AI player count, relative to the Systems that you generate, for a balanced game, the less AI the better; for you that is. It may be best to keep the AI players down (1 per 8-12 Systems), and not to play with any AI bonus in this style game of AIC.

Remember, the AI likes those artifacts too.

[ June 09, 2003, 12:00: Message edited by: JLS ]

[pathfinder]

JLS: Ha! Now I find out (no bonus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )! Just had my emperor's head handed to me by an organic race..

[JLS]

I bet it was, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif - Xi'Chung Hive ;~pathfinder

[ June 09, 2003, 02:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

[pathfinder]

Uri'Kal?? actually. I would have recognized those bLasted bugs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[JLS]

We have just Started a LAN MultiPlayer game with one Other Human Player.
Beta testing AIC v3.02.
To include AI Planet Utilazation Revisions, Centurion Systems and Psychic Intel Projects v2.

Most game events will not be Posted this more in the way of the Speed a LAN game may proceed playing AIC.
------------------------
No Warp Style Game, view all players off with a 12 full Cluster Default Large Galaxies Map, with AI Players Count High, Default Medium Difficulty for AI players Selected and AI Bonus set to Low.

I am a Science - Crystalline - Hydro - Gas Giant Race. Game is Played on a Intel 500 mghz XP Gateway Computer (HOST) No options or MP Handycap. No Strategic Fighters

Other Human Player is Science - Temporal - Carbo – GAS GIANT on a 1gig 2000XP Dell. No options or MP Handycap. ? 500 cost Strategic Fighters.
--

2000 Point.
No Warp Style Game, view all players off with a 12 full Cluster Default Large Galaxies Map, with AI Players Count High, Default Medium Difficulty for AI players Selected and AI Bonus set to Low.

The Random AI Player Yeild was 9 AI major Players and 5 Nuetrals thru out Quad.

Games First turn Starts 10:30 EST. June, 9-03
1rst Yr-11:04 est. 10turn, expended 1/2 Hour including setup and posting. Started in 11th Place.

2nd Yr-11:14 est. I have a Poor Starting System – Built and about two Colonize 2 Gas non Breathable Worlds… No Ships or Base Yet. 16th Place.

3rd Year-11:41 est: All 3 Gas Non Breathable Colonized, (5) Star Liners avg 2 per Colony. Scraped HW space Dock and port for a Settlement and the Crystalline (RAD) Improvement Plant will be completed in a few Months. This is a Plant will be a prep for future trade income. Colonies built mostly Research Expeditions until Resources are needed. Crys Restructuring Plant and Energy Lens Built on Scrub Colony. 16th (Last) Place.

4th Year-12:08: HW Starts BSY II construction of 2 Underway. Colonies; once Research Expiditions are Finished build Cry II Torp Sats for the Future Warp Holes Defense… 1 BSY (Missile II Sats), no War Ships 16th Place

5th Year-12:49 est: 50 Turns in 2hrs 20min...includes Pizza Break.
HW Scrap Settlement builds Research Computer- Freighter Built (SL HULL) to transport Sats built at Colonies to the HW (auto repeat w HW +3 Cols). 2 BSY II making Missile II Sats. Starting Frigate and Escort Construction. all level 2+ components. Small TAC Fighter 1, with lvl 2 Turret Research in a few months. Ship Traing II Built on scrub. 16th Place.

Year 8.3-14:34est: Warp Opener, opens first warp

10th Yr-15:40 100 turns in 5Hrs 10min in 2 Player LAN

[ June 09, 2003, 20:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

[HercMighty]

Hey guys finally get to play again. I've got the newest Version of AIC but have a question. Creating a new empire. How is this best accomplished, is it better to edit an existing one or can I just click on add new and go from there. Also when you are setting up your new empire it has use race minister style. Choices are use selected style or use style from race. But if I start a new race where does it get it information from? Just curious as I would like to mix things up here as well instead of using just the four that come with this mod, but I would like to understand what I am doing. Thanks.

[JLS]

Originally posted by HercMighty:
Hey guys finally get to play again. I've got the newest Version of AIC but have a question. Creating a new empire. How is this best accomplished, is it better to edit an existing one or can I just click on add new and go from there.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Either way... Please just remember to take *Human Player MUST SELECT here first* from the Advanced traits Menu (as it is with the supplied examples), then any options you may want other then the AI traits, including the MP Handicaps that will give your Empire 1000 extra Points to spend. Think about setting up a Dual Race.
Please refer to the instruction for
STARTING YOUR FIRST FEW AIC v3.0+ GAMES , less then 10 Posts down http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


Also when you are setting up your new empire it has use race minister style. Choices are use selected style or use style from race. But if I start a new race where does it get it information from? Just curious as I would like to mix things up here as well instead of using just the four that come with this mod, but I would like to understand what I am doing. Thanks.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, the Races that are supplied are an Example. By selecting YES use style from race, you are able to use the Speech files for that race folder, as opposed to the default speech file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

---
You may also Paste in (one) Race Set that you like from this Forum to the AICAMPAIGN/Pictures/Race Folder then CREATE NEW and selecting that Portrait.

Advanced…
If you copy any more then one, and only one person is Playing. Then all NEW Races that were added, but the one you choose; will need AI FILES from AIC.

[ June 09, 2003, 21:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

[HercMighty]

So it only uses the speech file and that it? It has no bearing on how the ministers actually act? Like if I use the other option and I get the choices of aggressive and so on those have no bearing on how the ministers actually work?

[JLS]

Originally posted by HercMighty:
So it only uses the speech file and that it? It has no bearing on how the ministers actually act? Like if I use the other option and I get the choices of aggressive and so on those have no bearing on how the ministers actually work?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, it will be fine for all ministers, as you may be used too.
Except the DESIGN Minister he may not design your ships the way you want, just as se4 or other Mods...

---

If you do not go into any Data Files or alter any, then no problem, other wise:
If you rely on the ministers, you will at least have to have the AIC, AI files for that Race in that folder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
For example: You will need an Organic Race Research Minister, to research organics, etc.

[ June 09, 2003, 22:10: Message edited by: JLS ]

[HercMighty]

If I start a new race then, when I choose my race and ship pics it is then also picking where it will get the minister info?

[JLS]

Yes, HercMighty. Pick any supplied race, and alter it as you would from a MOD or the se4 game, you have done in the past.
Besure to Pick from the Advanced trait Menu the top *HUMAN PLAYER* trait. Please do not take any bottom AI Traits.
Please refer to the instruction for
STARTING YOUR FIRST FEW AIC v3.0+ GAMES, posted below.

Info on ministers only.
Yes, if the race you pick, has not been added by you physically, and is the standard se4 races Styles that was supplied with AIC. You will be fine with the ministers.
Just keep an Eye on the Design Minister, he likes to dabble with YOUR designs every time you get a new tech, as you would expect with se4 or other Mods...
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

This also does not mean you will like any of their decisions, most of us never do. But yes they will make them for you, if you want. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I personally like just starting with the Intel Minster only, then taking over after I meet another Race.

If you wish to add a Race other then the supplied Races, I will be happy to assist.

[ June 09, 2003, 22:45: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

The other Organic Race in AIC, and the only race that deviates from the Basic se4 Races, would be the Drushocka. They prefer no Atmosphere and make good use of the rocky moons.

The Drushocka race is a XiChung want a-be, and can be tough. The Drushocka are Impulsive, and as such, their actions and Research goals tend to be erratic. As result of this lack of focus, the Drushocka may decline in most non-bonus games.
~
Then there is Ukra-Tal the other Organic race of the three, are a very Serene race, and it is unlikely they will resort to violence from anger unless pushed to the extreme http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

------

Name := Drushocka
Biological Description := The Drushocka rather resemble greenish moss-covered boulders. They move through the oscillation of these moss fibers along their bodies. Suffice to say, they move very slow. However, they make up for this in physical toughness. Since they are predominantly composed of silicate and Organic based materials, they are literally as tough as rock.
Demeanor := Impulsive
Culture := Workers
Planet Type := Rock
Atmosphere := None

Name := Ukra-Tal
Description := The Ukra-Tal are an ancient peaceful people who excel at politics. They have also developed advanced organic manipulation technology.
Empire Name := Ukra-Tal
Empire Type := Collective
Emperor Name := Weshra-Tal
Emperor Title := Imperator
General History Description := Though they are actually a very peaceful people, the Ukra-Tal have been plagued by wars since they first ventured into space. History has shown that the Ukra-Tal are rarely the aggressors and that they are usually attacked out of fear of their organic technology. History also shows that the Ukra-Tal are not to be trifled with. Though slow to action, when they do go to war, it becomes a very serious endeavor.
Demeanor := Serene
Culture := Politicians
Planet Type := Ice
Atmosphere := Methane
Design Name File := Scandina.txt

[ June 09, 2003, 12:22: Message edited by: JLS ]

[mottlee]

Will the patch kill ongoing 2.9 games?

[JLS]

Yes, in v3.00+, AIC goes towards Multiplayer and is a full upgrade. However AI Minefield handleing is basicly the same as 2.91-. Accept Human Player Minefields will be more effective over a longer periode of time in AI Bonus [none] games with AIC v3.00+.

It adds much for the Human Players Evolution and to tame the AI in None Bonus games

Please Download the Complete Version of AIC 3.01a this will add new Races, and Upgrade AIC to Multiplayer - More Centuriaon Systems and adds Psychic Intel Projects http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Please refer to v3.00 and v3.01a release Posts below.

[ June 09, 2003, 13:22: Message edited by: JLS ]

[HercMighty]

Okay I got it figured out now on how to do the empires thanks.

Your Fighter Mod though has me scratching my head a little though. I want to make sure I understand before I get to far into my game so I am not to handicapped. How are fighter different from a standard game? What are you doing different?

I guess I am confused by no strategic movements mentioned in the readme file and what the the free strategic fighter movement option in the race setup alters.

I am playng with simul movement.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it. More of the game makes more and more sense as I read through the information a few times but I guess I am not getting a good grasp on this for some reason. I figure when I get to it a few times it will make sense, but I'm trying to understand as much as I can before I get to it.

[oleg]

I am certain that the whole field of fighter' weapons is far from the optium setup. They are just too generic. All "armor-skipping torpedoes" have same statistics except the cost for example. JLs is working on it but he will need all the input from us, players. Please, contribute !

[ June 10, 2003, 20:24: Message edited by: oleg ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

You might already know this but I am pretty mad right now. If you look in the techarea.txt file you will see that the space yards tech field has a racial trait of 7 which won't let any of the ai or neutral races build space yards. I am 400 turns into a game of no warp points and was just checking out some of the other races and noticed that their ship building option was grayed out and none of their inital planets had a space yard facility. I should of checked this out in the first fifty turns, I guess you live and learn. I just don't see how this escaped the testing process before this patch was released. Thanks again for a great mod, but I did just have to scrap a 400 turn game.

SunDevil

[narf poit chez BOOM]

be creative. give them stuff.

[Grand Lord Vito]

SunDevel.

I have Played with Version 3.00 and also upgraded from 3.01to v3.01a and in all the games the Neutral does build Yards and bases.

The v3.01a game I have now, the neutral has 13 bases 5 of which are Yards, all have more then 10 and theirs one with 18 Base. Also a No Warp Game.
However, as far as I can tell, all the Neutrals are now and have been making yards and plenty of bases.
I play with veiw all and all the AI is doing GREAT, maybe to great.

Is it all Nuetrals, or just the one with a a problem? Which race was it?

When you logged into that Neutral, you must have seen the Design for Base Yards. Are you also saying the Neutral has no Space Yard Facility as well? When you loged in did you see if that AI could build one? Oleg, just published a game on the Forum, where the AI made and lost tons of ships.

I just started 3 different games real quick and all the Nuetral have Yards http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Did you add or install another Mod over AIC… AIC is not compatible with other MODs until Version 4 comes out.

What starting options are you using, other then No Warp? Can you Email JLS your Savegame?

[QBrigid]

Sundevil, my game is also AIC v3.01a. No Warp with High Tech Cost. AI bonus is none.

All the AI including the Neutrals have bases. Did you modifie the game any?

I love the game, it plays great. I have not seen any Bugs yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[JLS]

Hi, SunDevil.

Sorry, to here about your 400 turn game.

I can assure you the AI and the Neutrals have the ability to build and start with Space Yard Facilities. In the games and Settings, we have used.

Olegs Forum game, the AI had Plenty of ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif - If we look close enough we may find a jpg of a BSY or two http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Has anyone else seen the AI in AI not building Ships or bases?
~

There are still a few things that are being worked out in AIC and we will continue. However, between a full days work, Program AIC and time with my family. Well anyway, I do try not to make mistakes, and I thank all here on the Forum, that helps test and play AIC, and they all have been and are, outstanding people http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

~~~
May I ask you a few questions about your game?

What did you have the defaults at, when you started that game?
What Neutral is it that does not have a YARD?
Do the other Neutrals build or not have a Yard?
What did that AI build for facilities for that planet?
Could it be posable that it was destroyed by an Attack? (if one AI)
The rest of the AI Players, are they fine?
Did you make any changes in the supplied AI or Copy any foreign AI to the game without the proper AIC AI Construction and Design Files?
Did you modify any Data Files or install a MOD add-on?

~~~

Known oddities in AIC v3.01 to date. An oddity is not a bug, since the Human Player game, play is not affected.
1: AI was not getting a Project in intel ~Found by SunDevil. Fixed and Patch v3.01a.
2: Weird Looking Tiny Dead Sun in the Centurion System, no effect on game ~We now have a different Image, since that was too weird.
3: Planet utilization. Oleg and I are working on a few thoughts and I left few Techs open to the Human Player for the time being.

As far as I know these are the only oddities, which can be found in AIC, and will be resolved in v3.02, and will NOT break existing save games.

Still in Beta are:
1: Psychic Intel.
2: AI Infantry and Troopers versus Human Player Armored Vehicles and Battle Line Tanks.

I also just now started (8) in a row No Warp games (4) with Medium Tech Start and (4) without and All the AI and Neutrals have Ship Yards. Also started 8 normal games, same variation with NO AI Problems, All the AI and Neutrals have Ship Yards.
====

AIC is not compatible with any other MODS at this time. Modified data or AI files, yes, I am sorry, your game may be a scrap http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

If you wish, Please send your Save to my work, > CES-Incorp@MSN.COM < and I will see what I can do to salvage your 400 game, and return it to you, for your play; Tomorrow around 3pm est http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 11, 2003, 05:39: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

GLV, I do not have your save, but you had/have a v3.01? regular game going around 1400 turns. How is the AI in that game? You are in 2nd or third as I recall.

Please, resend the save file.

GLV, you are playing NO WARP, I thought you did not like no warp http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ June 11, 2003, 04:47: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by HercMighty:

What the the free strategic fighter movement option in the race setup alters.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">EDIT
AIC defaults to the TACTICAL FIGHTER MODUAL.

Strategic Fighter is in Option 1, so may players may Play and Test it.

Strategic Fighters are NOT a default , if you want them, you have to choose it from the Traits menu http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
If you do not Choose Strategic Fighters the AIC game is defaulted the Tactical Fighter Module only.

Tactical Fighters: Do not move in the System, so you can not park your CV's 1 away from the AI's Planet and BLast him with impunity, you will have to Commit your Fleet.

Strategic fighters: you can do all the above http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


the game makes more and more sense as I read through the information a few times but I guess I am not getting a good grasp on this for some reason.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Its not you, AIC is growing faster then the README. I need to rewrite existing readme with a Help and Getting started text, and package it with the game.

===================================

It is best to have some se4 expearence though when starting a MOD.
With AIC, some of the AI Players, can be unforgiving.

I recomend if you have little se4 expearience to Start AIC with a LARGE Default map, None in Computer Bonus and Number of Computer Players, Computer Diffaculty set to LOW. Play as many turns as you like, learn the new Components and Facilities the Econmics and meet a few AI. When your ready, just start a defalut game, with all the Options you want.

[ June 11, 2003, 16:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

In the actual zip file of the 3.01 Version, if you look at the techarea.txt file you will see the spaceyards tech set to a racial trait of 7. If you then look at the racialtrait.txt file you will see that the humans have a racial trait of 7, thus not giving any of the ai even an option to research space yards because they are not set to a racial trait of 7 just the human players.

SunDevil

[SunDevil]

JLS,

There are the same files within 3.01a as well.

Please just go to your site and download the full download of 3.01a and then open up the zip and look at techarea.txt file and the racialtratits.txt file and based on the spaceyards being set to a racial trait of 7 how any of the ai players are suppose to be able research that tech area let alone build any spaceyards.

SunDevil

[ June 11, 2003, 06:44: Message edited by: SunDevil ]

[oleg]

Sun Devil, AI does not need Space Yard Tech at all !

Take a look at "AI Space Yard":
---------------------------------------------------------------
Name := Space Yard Facility I
Description := Large indusrial Facility for this planet which allows the construction of ships and assists infustucture.
Facility Group := Space Yard
Facility Family := 38
Roman Numeral := 1
Restrictions := None
Pic Num := 16
Cost Minerals := 7000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := AI Balance Tech
Tech Level Req 1 := 1
Tech Area Req 2 := Ship Construction
Tech Level Req 2 := 1
Number of Abilities := 6
Ability 1 Type := Space Yard
Ability 1 Descr :=
Ability 1 Val 1 := 1
Ability 1 Val 2 := 1500
Ability 2 Type := Space Yard
Ability 2 Descr :=
Ability 2 Val 1 := 2
Ability 2 Val 2 := 1500
Ability 3 Type := Space Yard
Ability 3 Descr :=
Ability 3 Val 1 := 3
Ability 3 Val 2 := 1500
Ability 4 Type := Component Repair
Ability 4 Descr :=
Ability 4 Val 1 := 10
Ability 4 Val 2 := 0
Ability 5 Type := Palace
Ability 5 Descr :=
Ability 5 Val 1 := 1
Ability 5 Val 2 := 0
Ability 6 Type := Supply Generation
Ability 6 Descr := Can generate unlimited supplies each turn for ships.
Ability 6 Val 1 := 0
Ability 6 Val 2 := 0
-------------------------------------------

See, there is NO requirement for Space Yards ! Just Ship Construction.
I don't know what is going on with your game. Is it possible AI have not been set up with
"AI balance tech" ?

[General Woundwort]

Just looking over your new toys in this mod, and I was struck with an idea (and boy, did it hurt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif ), either for this mod or another one...

Perhaps the psychic abilities could be split into two separate braches, both available for purchase with racial points (maybe 1000 or so)...

TELEKINETICS - would have most of the "psychic weapons" as currently developed, plus some new ones like Psychic Shielding & the like.

TELEPATHS - would have the evil icky Allegence Converter, your Psychic Intel projects and facilites, and some other sundries.

Whadyathink?

[JLS]

Originally posted by General Woundwort:
TELEKINETICS and TELEPATHS
Whadyathink? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sounds like a real neat idea, for your new mod, that seems to be moving along very quickly. Way to go, General Woundwort http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 11, 2003, 16:57: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by General Woundwort:
Just looking over your new toys in this mod, and I was struck with an idea
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, how long have you been working on AIC?

[ June 11, 2003, 14:35: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

[JLS]

Over ONE YEAR, in about 6 stages http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
In earnest, almost non-stop since my Thanks Giving Vacation 2002.

There is a lot of labor in AIC and it has been a challenge and a lot of fun to do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 11, 2003, 14:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by General Woundwort:
Just looking over your new toys in this mod, and I was struck with an idea ~ another one...

your Psychic Intel projects and facilites, and some other sundries.

Whadyathink?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is a lot of things to take, I prefer if most would wait before they Emulate from AI Campaign or its AI Balance Module that gives Abilities to the AI or The Tactical Fighter and Finite Module; for thier MODS.

EDIT: Would perfer they would assist in the final weeks of AIC (v4.00. July, 2003 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

After that, I plan on a new project with a Totaly different Game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Continued commitments, with AI design assistance with other se4 Mods with friends here, and I will always plan to have support for AIC.

[ June 11, 2003, 16:56: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

I figured out the problem. Like I said in the past, I made my own mod based on your mod. So everytime you come out with an update I just change the things you have mentioned in the new Version post. Somewhere along the line I must of changed ai space yards not rely on ship construction and make it the same as the player's requirements. With six seperate mods integrated and this being the first issue after three months I think is pretty good. Sorry if I came off like an a-hole I was just pissed off about losing a 400 turn game. I do have an idea of how hard it is to test this game because of the thirty something files involved not including the ai races, everytime you come out with an update, I literally have to go through all the data files to make sure I get your new changes and don't overwrite one of my revisions. Thanks again for the feedback and the great mod, and thanks for everyone pointing out that I am blind and didn't see the spaceyards for the ai rely on ship construction. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

Not a Problem, at all SunDevil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You are and have been one of the largest contributors to AI Campaign.

If you take a Look at the System Names file in your AIC Data folder, you may be in for a surprise.

It is not every Body that has a Solar System named after him, SUNDEV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Again, if you feel that something is not right, or could be better, POST as you have. We need this, look at the result, Many took a look at the files and as a result I have had about 12 emails with ideas and with several Posts here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks again, for your help with the new Psychic Intel and the Political Files for the Xiati in AIC. We look forward for more. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 11, 2003, 18:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

[General Woundwort]

Originally posted by JLS:
That is a lot of things to take, I prefer if most would wait before they Emulate from AI Campaign or its AI Balance Module that gives Abilities to the AI or The Tactical Fighter and Finite Module; for thier MODS.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">(Shrug) just a thought.

[ June 11, 2003, 18:51: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

[JLS]

I would really like to help out with yours next month and we can put something together for your AI from AIC, sound like a Plan?

This way, we all can test and get a feel for your facilities, components and Human Player stuff, for your Mod, General Woundwort and you will have a sooner release date http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 11, 2003, 19:54: Message edited by: JLS ]

[HercMighty]

JLS:

Are any of the reports at the end of the FAQ thread relevant to AIC? I am putting together a Space Empires IV together for reference.

[JLS]

Good, question, HercMighty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

YES, most of the FAQ is relevant to AIC. As with most MODs, however, AIC does modifies the Original DATA file for se4. For example the only way for the AI have some Abilities to help it along and have it later drop when playing Finite, or to have Tactical Fighter Movement and encompass Finite Economics, is to reprogram the Data and AI files.

Some Mods use special Weapon or Facilities that may not be in FAQ.
For example: AIC Engineering Section or Sick Bay Component.
AIC Racial Culture Centers and Racial Cities will not be in the FAQ.

There will be Basics that are in the FAQ that AIC Will do its best to follow, and I try to follow the Posts, in Stone Mills Strategy Articles thread (Great Stuff here), I have learnt allot from this thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Link > > Strategy Articals < (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=008452)

For example, it is still easier to increase the Population in AIC with an Organic Race, hence the Production and Construction will increase relatively faster with this style race.

After reading this Last FAQ, I will be sure Organic Fighter Weapons have the Edge over other races.

Before AIC 4.00 is finished, I will try to do all my homework and cross the T’s. Any help, that you can share would be great.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 12, 2003, 22:33: Message edited by: JLS ]

[General Woundwort]

Originally posted by JLS:
I would really like to help out with yours next month and we can put something together for your AI from AIC, sound like a Plan?

This way, we all can test and get a feel for your facilities, components and Human Player stuff, for your Mod, General Woundwort and you will have a sooner release date http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I appreciate the help. The files should be done by then, and I plan to do a few at-home test runs to see if any major bugs show up. But my big concern (until and if I do a multi-player Version) is getting the AI to adjust to the changes. The more input I can get on this, the better.

[Grand Lord Vito]

SunDevil.

Since you know, that the AI receives its Ship Yard upgrades from Ship Construction, and we all know that the AI starts with level 1 Ship Construction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Now you should also have known that the AI WILL and HAS ALWAYS MADE A STARTING SPACE YARD FACILITY http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Unless there is a NEW point you are attempting to make now ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

I think how JLS set up the AI in AIC, is near brilliant http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

I tried to email or PM you to explain Ship Yard Upgrades in AIC and save you the troubles, but you have none listed.

[ June 11, 2003, 12:10: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[QBrigid]

Since the AI start with Ship Construction 1. Sundevils game had to have Space Yards for his AI ?!? Hmm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

JLS, why did you set the AI up with Ship Construction, and not Space Yards?

[JLS]

Yes, QB. All the AI should have had Space Yard Facilities in SunDevil Game. I am not sure why they did not. I would need him to answer the few of the questions below if he wish's for me to assist him.

However, clearly, the AI has Ship Construction One, hence, has, and always had a starting Space Yard Facility in AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

SunDevil and QB. The AI is set this way for now, since around v2.91, so I may balance the AI for the Final Release. In this way, I only have to cycle the Tests to find the benchmarks for AI Construction with a few quick SC changes. This is all to find an accepted Human Player Balance; in Low and Medium Computer Start games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

This is all for Testing SunDevil, for example.
There are 27 Research Files for the AI in AIC. (Soon to be 30 research files) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Now, if I was to cycle the tests repeatedly with the Space Yard Techs, I would have to make the changes in the 27+ individual research files to find the benchmarks, and trust me that would take way to much time and have strong possibilities for some space errors as well, when altering 27 research files. And has little bearing on the way the game Plays, sense the AI does get the SY upgrades, as you can see.

I believe Ship Construction settings for Space Yard upgrades are the best means to find the (AI Construction) benchmark for Low and Medium bonus games, for AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~~~

Now around Version 3.50 the AI in AIC, will revert back to Space Yard Tech structure in their Research file. With information collected above, I can set the Research to all the AI at a diverse level to balance individual AI strength http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Scenarios for a for a diverse and Balanced AI goal:
Terrans expand to quickly late in the mid game; I would give them SY 2 or 3 much later.
The Hive is Way to powerful in the End Game, then I may never give them SY 3.
If I want the Hive to be the meanest I may give them SY2 after SC5 for example.
The Drushocka and Abbi are always lame, here an early SY research, may help.
Etc.

I hope this has explained my purposes and goals, in this area, SunDevil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

SunDevil, thank you very much for all the assistance you given to AIC in the past, and if you feel, there is ever an error, please continue to point it out . http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Edit:
The Construction Bench Mark for all AI, for AIC v3.02. For the Ship Yard upgrades will be at:
SY Facility 2: SY2 tech would not be placed for most AI before that AI reaches SC 7.
SY Facility 3: SY3 tech would not be placed in the individual Research for most AI before that AI reaches SC 9. However, SC 10 will be setting for v3.02.
EDIT:
Base Space Yard Component, MAY always; be tied to Ship Construction Techs.
AI BSY settings for v3.02
BSY lvl 1 = 750 at SC1
BSY lvl 2 = 1000 at SC6
Bsy lvl 3 = 1500 at SC9
Bsy lvl 4 = 2000 at SC12

Several Players, will return with feedback from their v3.02 games. However, if they are always in First place at the 500 and/or 1000 turn mark, with ALL the GAMES they tested at LOW bonus. Then revisions will be made to obtain a Struggle for the Human Player with AI Low AI Bonus starts, at those marks; in most games.

This is another reason why I ask new players to the game, that not not played AIC or beat the AI, always to start with Computer Bonus=NONE
===

GLV, thanks. But you may have gone a little overboard, in your Last post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

[ June 11, 2003, 17:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by General Woundwort:
But my big concern (until and if I do a multi-player Version) is getting the AI to adjust to the changes. The more input I can get on this, the better.[/QB]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">General Woundwort

I would appreciate it if you did NOT try AIC programming, Facilities, Components, Vehicals DATA and AI Files etc. for your AI, until AIC is finished this July.

Could you imagine if some one took facets of any mod before they are done.

For example the Adamant Mod, the Captains and Atrocities Star Trek Mod, Tescos and Gryphins Mod and AIC are still under Construction and we are on the Forum to help make our Mods better, for their final release.
We did not invest many Months worth of work, to see it help some one make their mod in a few days.
We may not have any copy rights this is true, but how good would this be for the Mod Communities if designers are afraid to post for input, just to have someone use your Testing, Research, communications and design for their Mod.

I am not saying you will, but you stated you were going to give your AI abilities. This will be very hard to do without using Published AIC Trait, Data and AI General file AIC programing tie ins.

And to my knowledge, my programing of AI Campaign is the first mod to breaks this ground for the AI in AIC and I am almost done, after one year of very hard work, so if you can give me until July as we discussed a few post below, that would be great.

In the Least, after July if you decide to try AIC prgraming, please make reference Credit to any and all Programming Copied from AIC specifics.

Call it a designers courtesy if you will.

John
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 12, 2003, 16:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

[General Woundwort]

Originally posted by JLS:
I would appreciate it if you did NOT use AIC programming, Facilities, Components, Vehicals DATA and AI Files etc. for your AI, until AIC is finished this July.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fear not. The only thing I am doing with the AI for my mod is tweaking the basic files that come with the game, and the only external Mod I've "imported" is Ed's Colony tech. Everything else is the result of my own demented thought patterns. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif This being my first big project, that's about all I can handle. If the basic concept does end up working (more or less), then we can worry about souping up the AI from your mods when you think best.

P.S. If I can get the thing to work within its basic parameters, my hope is to get enough interest in it to do a multi-player Version for PBW.

[HercMighty]

JLS,

I have used the FAQ alot, it has saved me many a times from having to post. But there is a weapons report and a component report at the end of the FAQ. Along with a couple others. What files would I have to look at to make these reports reflect AIC data and is it resonable to think it could be done? If you could let me know where I need to look I would like to modify these files to work with your MOD. Leaving credit where credit is due for the files.

[ June 12, 2003, 17:24: Message edited by: HercMighty ]

[JLS]

Thank you, HercMighty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

There is not much, concrete to add to this until at least a few weeks. Their will still be changes to AIC before v4.00…. Soon I have to finish the project and enough will be enough.

I would say that in regards to the Strategies from (FAQ) most if not all are entirely applicable with AI Campaign, for the most parts.

Link >> (FAQ) < (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=005518)

I really enjoyed (EdKolis) article on intel, this is very informative for myself and all, Thanks Ed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

-----------------------------------------------

In regards to Research , there are only a few differences.
The two Key differences are in AIC to that of original se4:

Construction Techs for AIC will yield mainly: Structures for your Colonial Development that will increase wealth, resources, and infrastructure for your empire.

Military Science Techs For AIC will yield mainly: A stronger Military. Better Infantry, Armored Vehicles, Fighters, Mines, Mine Sweepers, and Combat Support and other equipment for your Ships, Bases and Units.

There are some additions with Ship Construction also with a benefit yield, have new, or Improved Components.

There are also a few Techs in AIC that is exclusive to AIC.
For Example:
Racial Construction: For Racial Population Centers, as well as others.
Faster Colonizers: For Black Hole Assistance.
Strategic Fighters: Would be in basic the same as se4 Fighters.
Advanced Design Engineering: Packed with some goodies to add to your Ships, Units, Base and includes a new Vehicle Hull for your inventory.

Tectonic Engineering: This is where you can reach the Devastating Planet and System destroyers. This Area also serves so it may be removed and retain productive Stellar Manipulations for your game play.

Racial Construction if removed; your Populations centers will all be of the Basic Variety.

Troops and their Weapons are programed in AIC as such if removed; you and The AI Player may have just Infantry and less Armored Vehicles and Heavy Vehicle Weapons. This may be advantage for the Human Player, it also removes most of the AI Players anti-tank, Assault Troopers and the Elite units of the AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

==

A good starting research plan for AIC would be to have as a top 10 starting research goal:
Ship Construction 2 , Propulsion 2, Military Science 1 , Construction 1 , Point Defense 1+, Ship Construction 3 … After this the AIC is on the mark for the (FAQ).

Some AIC specific Vehicles :
Small Infantry and Heavy Weapons Troopers , for AIC; is designed to work as combined arms with the Troops (Armored Vehicles) we all are familiar with in se4.

Tactical Fighters: Basically se4 Fighters that do NOT move within a System.
Strategic Fighters: Basically se4 fighters that DO move within a System.

Star Liner Hull: Is the transportation choice in the AIC realm.
As a slow but cost efficient means:
For Population Transport to and from the Colonies as long as the Population Life Support Module is installed.

The Starliner Hull as a Freighter or Barge , it will haul from near 1000 to 3000 Kilo Tons of Cargo and require just the basics for life support http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

AIC Components, Vehicales and Facilities all have descriptions assigned to each; please right click over the picture, for more information http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I believe, most players will have se4 experience and will enjoy not knowing exactly what route to take and the down and dirty of a specific AIC Structure, Component, and Vehicles etc. Possibly decades of evolution may go by before the event is researched or available for that players conceived use.

-------------------------------------------------
In regards to the AI Players Features, I would like this to stay as mysterious as possible for the Players enjoyment, and yes, also to the Players frustration http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

===

In the closing Versions their will be a direction too close the gap even further between Human Players AIC and (FAQ) as much as possible, if you wish to Email me on suggestions towards this goal, this would lend much service.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 13, 2003, 16:10: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:

Remember you can load a Small Transport with all Supply Bays for a high capacity escort refueling tanker in AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Your post is right on, for the early logistics of building your great EMPIRE http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Do not forget the Trade Center; it is helps for trading surplus for some much needed recourses. Especially in a No Warp or Finite Game in AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

GLV, how do you normally arrange your top ten Research path in your AIC game?

[ June 13, 2003, 16:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

[HercMighty]

You can load a small transport with all storage? I am assuming you have to take care of the warnings but this implies you do not need engines or anything else? Though on a tanker I wouldn't want anything else other than I had assumed engines.

[JLS]

Yes, you can install many more Components on Transports for AIC versus Original se4:

~Supply Storage levels 1-5 = Supply Ships
~Mine Sweeper Component 1-5 = MTs are great Sweepers
~Robo Mining: Minerals and Rads = Mining Barge
~Cobalt Warhead for some awesome fire ships
~Almost all Stellar Manipulation Devises = Science Vessels
~Space Ship Yard Component = Great SYS Platform
~Repair Bay Components = Very good repair Platform
And a few more...

On most components if you RIGHT CLICK on the picture their may be additional information http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

All can be loaded on a Small, Medium, and Large Transport Hulls.
Transports are a good and a low cost to maintain vehicle,
and will find that Transports are truly the workhorse in AI Campaign. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 13, 2003, 17:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

[HercMighty]

Yes I have utilized them to a great degree. But I am assuming now I have wasted space by putting on componets that I don't need. At minimum I thought you needed a Bridge, Life support, and crew quarters. At this point the warnings go away. You do not need to add engines at this point? Need being the opertive word here. I will have to look at the FAQ maybe, I am assuming that all ships must be assumed to have a propulsion built in and any you add just increase speed? Is that why when a ship runs out of resources it is able to limp back to a resupply point?

[JLS]

Yes, you need the Basics:

Basic Bridge, Basic Life Support, Basic Crew Quarters, and Engines.

In base se4 you are very restricted to a point on how many Cargo Bays you must have on your transports. This will take the space of other Components http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif


Is that why when a ship runs out of resources it is able to limp back to a resupply point?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, in the Origional se4 you can not install, many Supply Storage Bays on Small Transports. And you must have many Cargo bays of sorts, as well.

===

With AI Campaign, you can fill the Transports with something other then Cargo Bays. Actually, you can have none and all the Components mentioned a few Posts below if you like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 13, 2003, 17:12: Message edited by: JLS ]

[HercMighty]

Okay I get it, the light bulb is back to full brightness.

But I have often wondered how a ship that is at 0 resources still get to move. I have made the mistake especially with scouts to run them to empty yet they still make it back home to resupply.

[JLS]

Assuming you have the Basic Designs.

When out of Supply all ships will move ONE, for AIC and se4 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 13, 2003, 17:10: Message edited by: JLS ]

[HercMighty]

Have a transport with 575kt of cargo space, Population life support. I have 2000M of 2000M population on my homeworld. I can not seem to get population to load or transfer to my transport am I doing something wrong?

[HercMighty]

never mind why (not enough space), need to reasearch a bigger cargo container?

[HercMighty]

Actually a bigger ship.

[JLS]

Star Liner Hull: Is the transportation choice in the AIC realm.
As a slow but cost efficient means:
For Population Transport to and from the Colonies as long as the Population Life Support Module is installed.

The Starliner Hull as a Freighter or Barge , it will haul from near 1000 to 3000 Kilo Tons of Cargo and require just the basics for life support http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Components, Vehicales and Facilities all have descriptions assigned to each; please right click over the picture, for more information http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

-----------------------------

Go with 1 or 2 Starliners {Pop transports} for each Planet in your Home System and the domed planets that or in other systems.

For Colonies on breathable atmospheres in other systems, I may have up to 5 or 10 Starliners in a fleet ferrying population from the Home World, then get the population up to over a few hundred and build a Ship Yard for an Industrial World with allot of population.

Use Freighters small to large to carry Satellites, Weapon Platforms, Troops all units, to local planets and systems far away.

Remember you can load a Small Transport with all Supply Bays for a high capacity escort refueling tanker in AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In need of something delivered faster, then use a Cargo Ship, built from a Transport Hull.
Transports are a little more expensive to maintain then the freighter and do not have as much initial cargo space, but they will get your supplies to the frontier much faster.
At higher levels of propulsion they will move even faster
With a higher Cargo Tech , you will find that Transports are great for a fast Population shuttles as well
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Population Life Support Module is for Starliner Hulls, HercMighty
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

.

[ June 13, 2003, 23:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

~Tip~ With a good Population transportation system working in AIC, try not to let your Home World drop below 1501m, if this happens you may notice a small drop in productivity http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 13, 2003, 23:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:
Thank you, HercMighty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Star Liner Hull: Is the transportation choice in the AIC realm.
As a slow but cost efficient means:
For Population Transport to and from the Colonies as long as the Population Life Support Module is installed.

The Starliner Hull as a Freighter or Barge , it will haul from near 1000 to 3000 Kilo Tons of Cargo and require just the basics for life support http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

AIC Components, Vehicales and Facilities all have descriptions assigned to each; please right click over the picture, for more information http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I believe, most players will have se4 experience and will enjoy not knowing exactly what route to take and the down and dirty of a specific AIC Structure, Component, and Vehicles etc. Possibly decades of evolution may go by before the event is researched or available for that players conceived use.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Go with 1 or 2 Starliners {Pop transports} for each Planet in your Home System and the domed planets that or in other systems.

For Colonies on breathable atmospheres in other systems, I may have up to 5 or 10 Starliners in a fleet ferrying population from the Home World, then get the population up to over a few hundred and build a Ship Yard for an Industrial World with allot of population.

Use Freighters small to large to carry Satellites, Weapon Platforms, Troops all units, to local planets and systems far away.

Remember you can load a Small Transport with all Supply Bays for a high capacity escort refueling tanker in AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In need of something delivered faster, then use a Cargo Ship, built from a Transport Hull.
Transports are a little more expensive to maintain then the freighter and do not have as much initial cargo space, but they will get your supplies to the frontier much faster.
At higher levels of propulsion they will move even faster
With a higher Cargo Tech, you will find that Transports are great for a fast Population shuttles as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 13, 2003, 12:48: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[HercMighty]

I have a question about supply status Icon in the ship detail. I am getting Low Supplies Icon as soon as the ship is built. Is this normal? I get this on all ships. I'll have to run one low and see if it goes to No Supplies.

[Phoenix-D]

Low Supplies it set to a specific point in settings.txt; ussually 1000. If your ship has can carry less than that it will ALWAYS either have the low supply icon or be out of supplies.

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by HercMighty:
I have a question about supply status Icon in the ship detail. I am getting Low Supplies Icon as soon as the ship is built. Is this normal? I get this on all ships. I'll have to run one low and see if it goes to No Supplies.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">On War Ships, I never see this problem.

It is always best to have at least ONE Supply bay on a war ship or any other type of ship, as with all se4 designs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Starliners with one supply bay and Propulsion 1, have an expected one way range of 36 to 40 sectors about 19 TURNS of travel, before they run out of fuel. If you want a none stop Starliner Convoy to go more then 18 Turns without fuel, it is best to have a Small Transport as a Tanker escort, this has been posted earlier, HercMighty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If you want even more range, as with se4. It is best to research CARGO TECHs even Propulsion will increase your range http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

You will find many interesting articles on Supply and Resupply in the (FAQ) section of the Forum here.
But basically if you add a Supply Bay Component on your ship, you should be, ready to rock n roll

[ June 15, 2003, 16:37: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
Low Supplies it set to a specific point in settings.txt; ussually 1000. If your ship has can carry less than that it will ALWAYS either have the low supply icon or be out of supplies.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The settings.txt of 1000, has no bearing on how much your Ship will have for Supplies, or that it will have NONE, Phoenix-D.
It is just a setting, to alert you that your ship is under 1000 supplies and you could consider a refuel or adding more Supply Cargo to your design http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In AIC and any se4 game, supply depends on the amount of engines and if you want to add at least one Supply bay.

However in reality, I can not picture any ship not wanting a Supply hold, except if it was for local harbor or System defenses.

This is what I like about AIC, you do have many choices as a Player. If you want to forgo Supply for a better defense Ship, now you have a stronger local defense ship with out the range http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 15, 2003, 16:41: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[HercMighty]

That's what I was doing. I have started a new game, designed and built a as well as I could armed scout and researched till I got the 300k transport which I knew I wanted to make into a tanker. I put them both into a fleet and send them out. I just couldn't figure out why I was getting the low supply icon when I was. But now I have found that the setting is 800 and my armed scout only has 500 when fully suppplied.

[Grand Lord Vito]

Good point, se4 does not have a Scout Vehicle Hull (100kt)

The Scout Hull in AIC is inexpensive, easy to build, better maneuverability then that of some Fighters and with efficient engines and Solar Harnessed Panels, this AIC Scout Class will go on forever and ever http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

As such, I ask you, this-when is a Scout not a Scout,
when you give it a cannon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If you are looking for a good (Armed-Recon) Hull, the old tried and true Escort Hull (150kt) is the best choice.
I have a few designs for this, both with the best supply I can add and with (Solar Panels). One with a Temporal Sensor. The other is lightly armed with the Small Weapon Mount, which will be found in the Advanced Engineering Tech tree.

[ June 15, 2003, 17:15: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

researched till I got the 300k transport
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Small Transport, as you can see comes with your first Ship Construction Tech researched, and this is always necessary to expand your goals of expansion. For example, the Space Shuttle today can only get this world so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Other then this, I am not sure why JLS has this programmed in this way.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
researched till I got the 300k transport
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Small Transport, as you can see comes with your first Ship Construction Tech researched, and this is always necessary to expand your goals of expansion. For example, the Space Shuttle today can only get this world so far http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Other then this, I am not sure why JLS has this programmed in this way.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What you posted GLV sounds good, but more to shorten the length of time it took to complete the first turn, in a LAN game.

Players would design all options that a Small Transport would give….........
Cargo Ship
LR Cargo Ship
Sat layer
LR Sat layer
Mineral Miner
Rad Miner
Supply Ship
Tanker
Etc.
They may never even build that design, that every one else waited, while it was designed and then again when they Researched Propulsion or Cargo etc.

True, some would do this in the next turn, if they started with Ship Construction Research. However, most would not or just forget, and then made the design when it was needed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

It did speed up LAN play, a little http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 15, 2003, 19:55: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by JLS:
Thank you, HercMighty

There is not much, concrete to add to this until at least a few weeks. Their will still be changes to AIC before v4.00…. Soon I have to finish the project and enough will be enough.

I would say that in regards to the Strategies from (FAQ) most if not all are entirely applicable with AI Campaign, for the most parts.

Link >> (FAQ) < (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=005518)

I really enjoyed (EdKolis) article on intel, this is very informative for myself and all, Thanks Ed

-----------------------------------------------

In regards to Research , there are only a few differences.
The two Key differences are in AIC to that of original se4:

Construction Techs for AIC will yield mainly: Structures for your Colonial Development that will increase wealth, resources, and infrastructure for your empire.

Military Science Techs For AIC will yield mainly: A stronger Military. Better Infantry, Armored Vehicles, Fighters, Mines, Mine Sweepers, and Combat Support and other equipment for your Ships, Bases and Units.

There are some additions with Ship Construction also with a benefit yield, have new, or Improved Components.

There are also a few Techs in AIC that is exclusive to AIC.
For Example:
Racial Construction: For Racial Population Centers, as well as others.
Faster Colonizers: For Black Hole Assistance.
Strategic Fighters: Would be in basic the same as se4 Fighters.
Advanced Design Engineering: Packed with some goodies to add to your Ships, Units, Base and includes a new Vehicle Hull for your inventory.

Tectonic Engineering: This is where you can reach the Devastating Planet and System destroyers. This Area also serves so it may be removed and retain productive Stellar Manipulations for your game play.

Racial Construction if removed; your Populations centers will all be of the Basic Variety.

Troops and their Weapons are programed in AIC as such if removed; you and The AI Player may have just Infantry and less Armored Vehicles and Heavy Vehicle Weapons. This may be advantage for the Human Player, it also removes most of the AI Players anti-tank, Assault Troopers and the Elite units of the AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

==

A good starting research plan for AIC would be to have as a top 10 starting research goal:
Ship Construction 2 , Propulsion 2, Military Science 1 , Construction 1 , Point Defense 1+, Ship Construction 3 … After this the AIC is on the mark for the (FAQ).

Some AIC specific Vehicles :
Small Infantry and Heavy Weapons Troopers , for AIC; is designed to work as combined arms with the Troops (Armored Vehicles) we all are familiar with in se4.

Tactical Fighters: Basically se4 Fighters that do NOT move within a System.
Strategic Fighters: Basically se4 fighters that DO move within a System.

Star Liner Hull: Is the transportation choice in the AIC realm.
As a slow but cost efficient means:
For Population Transport to and from the Colonies as long as the Population Life Support Module is installed.

The Starliner Hull as a Freighter or Barge , it will haul from near 1000 to 3000 Kilo Tons of Cargo and require just the basics for life support http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

AIC Components, Vehicales and Facilities all have descriptions assigned to each; please right click over the picture, for more information http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
I believe, most players will have se4 experience and will enjoy not knowing exactly what route to take and the down and dirty of a specific AIC Structure, Component, and Vehicles etc. Possibly decades of evolution may go by before the event is researched or available for that players conceived use.

-------------------------------------------------
In regards to the AI Players Features, I would like this to stay as mysterious as possible for the Players enjoyment, and yes, also to the Players frustration http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

===

In the closing Versions their will be a direction too close the gap even further between Human Players AIC and (FAQ) as much as possible, if you wish to Email me on suggestions towards this goal, this would lend much service.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I remove Troops Weapons the AI won't build its Elite Storm Troopers. What will the Human Player, not be able to build?

Tectonic Engineering removed as an option http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
I never did like Systems Destroyers in the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[mottlee]

JLS
In 3.1 med start, I do not have any resorce facilitys (ie no min, org or rad farms) I do have in the tech tree the next is min scanners....confused...is this the way it should be? I have re-started a new game with the same results http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[oleg]

research Construction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[mottlee]

Duh....(red faced) I did and found it, tech tree is different http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif must learn "Grass Hopper!"

Thanks

[JLS]

Originally posted by QBrigid:
If I remove Troops Weapons the AI won't build its Elite Storm Troopers. What will the Human Player, not be able to build?

Tectonic Engineering removed as an option http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
I never did like Systems Destroyers in the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With troop weapons removed, that game will result in more of an Infantry Unit style game and Human Players will not have:
Medium and Large Troops (Vehicles) and some Heavy troop Weapons.

However, Troops are still being knocked around, so the Final AIC Version may result in something all together different.

[ June 16, 2003, 17:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

Satellite Armor 1 has the size 10 and the damage resistance 6. A bit light, I say !

[JLS]

Agreed.

Good observation, Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

We can lower the Size to 5kt and look at the values and restrictions for the next Version.

[JLS]

===================
AI CAMPAIGN V3.02 Update
===================

Conceptual:
The AI now starts with the ability to build a Planet Engineering type Facility ~Oleg and PTF
The Engineering Culture to a greater degree then the Science Culture AI Players will exploit Planet Utilization sooner then all other AI Races ~Compromise
It takes much longer for the AI to replace lost Ships, in all AI bonus games.
Reduced the effects as much as 50% for AI Players individual Ship Mine Sweeping Abilities.

Facilities:
Revised Planet Utilization, now easier and faster to Convert an Atmosphere for the Human Players.

Vehicles:
Further improved the smaller War Ship Maneuverability modifiers for the Human Player.
Scout, escort, frigate, and possibly the destroyer may have a creditable To Hit value; without an early Combat Sensor.

Components:
Satellite Armor Reduced to 5kt with an increase in resistance ~Oleg

Random Events:
Included some additional redundant events, to offset the Percentages.

Intel Projects:
Revised AI and Human Player Intel Projects less PreReqs For the Human Player ~GLV and QB
Fix one of the AI Projects ~SunDevil
Revised some descriptions for Intel Projects ~GLV

Quadrant Maps:
Revised some Images and added some more abilities for your Centurion System ~Oleg
Added a few special items for the systems.

Interface:
Reorganized Traits Menu Option 1 is back to best Planet. (v3.02 Complete Only)
Strategic Fighters are now found with the Multiplayer Trait options. (v3.02 Complete Only)

Notes:
AI players Atmospheric Converters are in Beta
AI Troops vs. Human Troops are in Beta
AI Psychic Intel File is in Beta

----------------
DOWNLOADS

Please download AI Campaign v3.02 Complete if you never received your copy of – AIC.

-------------------------
LINK > AIC v3.02 < (http://www.johnlsullivan.net/)
-------------------------

AIC Version 3.02 Update files only.

Updates AIC 3.00 Versions, Only .
AIC v3.02 update, will NOT break existing v3.xx saved games)

~~~~~~
In simultaneous games: After Updating or Patching, it is recommended that you log into the Host and then end your turn. The game will start you right were you left off. Please check your designs and if they are fine, you are good to go!
~~~~~~

[ June 19, 2003, 21:11: Message edited by: JLS ]

[mottlee]

Gee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I get into a good one then a new update....I need to play slower (or Faster)
Keep it up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[oleg]

Most AIs (may be even all) dont' have either "conditions change" or "atmosphere change" entries for mining colonies in Construction_Facilities files. That means they won't benefit from the new facility ! Other types of colonies have such an entry. Is is a bug or by design ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[JLS]

Oleg,

"The AI now starts with the ability to build a Planet Engineering type Facility" (True)

" The Engineering Culture to a greater degree then the Science Culture AI Players will exploit Planet Utilization sooner then all other AI Races ~Compromise" (True)

"Only Engineering Races will build Conditions Change and Atmosphere Converters on the Resource Extraction Colonies" (True)

This is by design; the Engineering Races have the advantage, here.

A compromise was made to prevent all AI Race Cultures from basically being a clone of the other. To be perceived by the Human Player opponent. That the introduction of the engineering AI Players in that game, will be a diverse Culture with a winnable AI directive in Planet Utilization.

But to deprived the other AI Races, the chance for increased Science, Construction Yard, Military, Intel and an Increased Colonial World would be too much of an advantage for the Engineering Race to have.
So yes, in the above 5 very important, non-Extraction Colonies, ALL AI Player RACES and somewhat the neutral Zyanaras, may build Atmosphere Converters and Conditions Change http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

~~~
However, as I stated, this was tested Last winter for AIC and it was determined to be an advantage that the Human Player may find difficult to overcome. Now, that the AI has been toned down for None and Low Bonus games, this now may become a good fit, for the AI in AIC.

[ June 20, 2003, 19:44: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

I see. But my impression has always been been you want to anthroporise(sp ???) AI as much as possible. Certainly, given enough time and resources, humans will Atm.Convert every single moon in sight. AI should be able to do the same. Thus, my idea about such facility is to reserverve the planetary space for further upgrade. I like (very much like !) your idea to give more personality to AI. However, I believe it can be better done by tweaking AI_research files, moving planetary utilization up or down, then rendering some AI planets completely "unconvertable". Exclusion of certain AI planet types from "convertable" type would surely lead to this !

[ June 20, 2003, 20:45: Message edited by: oleg ]

[JLS]

Greek word (Anthropo~) the philosophy of humanity.

I understand your point.

We must agree, that all the AI now have an additional advantage then they had in the Past.

Agreed, the Research files are currently set to the different AI races with Planet Utilization at various levels, already, to reflect this diversity, now in AIC.

However, in the end if all the Races had Atmospheric ConVersion on the Resource Extraction Colonies, then the results would be Identical in total, for all races, and how is this "Human Like" , if all follow the same path.

Non-aggressive Paths:
As High-level Stellar Manipulations is to the AI Science Races.

As High-level Resource Scanners is to the AI Worker Race.

As High-level cargo and/or Resupply is to the AI Merchant Race.

Atmospheric ConVersion exclusive on Resource Extraction could be for the AI Engineering race.

What is desired is that the end product would be a diverse Play Style, for each AI Player in AI Campaign.

For example, the Fazrah have Bio Weapons, this has NO effect on the other AI Players at all, and places the Fazrah at a distinct disadvantage versus the other AI Players.
This does however have a serious impact on the Human Players decision-making, if confronted by this Bio Weapon threat http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Yet, if all AI players had Bio Weapons, then sure there would be a balance amongst the individual AI, but no diversity; in the perspicacity http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif of the Human Players.

Please, give it a test run, as is, and let me know what you think, at turn 500 plus http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

If the Serine-Engineers of the Toltayan and Praetorian races are present in your game, you will be able to follow there progression as compared to other races.

And we can always tweak for the next Version http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 20, 2003, 22:43: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by JLS:


What is desired is that the end product would be a diverse Play Style, for each AI Player in AI Campaign.

For example, the Fazrah have Bio Weapons, this has NO effect on the other AI Players at all, and places the Fazrah at a distinct disadvantage versus the other AI Players.
This does however have a serious impact on the Human Players decision-making, if confronted by this Bio Weapon threat

Yet, if all AI players had Bio Weapons, then sure there would be a balance amongst the individual AI, but no diversity; in the perspicacity of the Human Players.

Please, give it a test run, as is, and let me know what you think, at turn 500 plus

If the Serine-Engineers of the Toltayan and Praetorian races are present in your game, you will be able to follow there progression as compared to other races.

And we can always tweak for the next Version

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is so true about the Fazrah. This race annihilated my best planet, with a Bio Weapon. From now on, I take the Race description and history more serious.

I like the fact that the each AI has an individual personality in AI Campaign, and this is just one of AIC’s best features http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[oleg]

How fast AI research colonization techs ? Low bonus, all points connected game. I ask it because I faced an interesting situation in my Last game. I play Gas Giants. 4 system away there is a nice system with 3 breathable gas giants (methane). The game turn is 60. Colony Ship will take 22 turns to reach it. There is no resupply points en route and the path goes through two systems with Xi'Chung fleets. We are at war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
Obviously, I must assemble powerfull convoy to get colony ships through. But I am afraid Xi'Chung can research gas colonization and claim planets before me ! In any case, it will be a colossal expedition. I never attempted anything like this before http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

Good topic to discuss, Oleg

Technically, the XiChung does not research Gas Giant Colonization accept if you are Playing a No Warp Game or the XiChung is currently disconnected in your game, I assume both are not the case.

It is also probable the XiChung was awarded Gas Giant Colonization thru an Anciant Ruin; in your current "game turn 60" game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

=========

Please Note ... in AIC, the AI has the Ability to acquire other type Colonization with out research, as Human Players do, thru Trade offer.

As many Players should agree, as a Human Player. Receiving a Colonizer Tech from most, if not ANY AI Players is so, too simple. Agreed? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Since AIC’s initial release, I have had the AI Player programmed in AI Campaign, also to receive their Colonizer techs as well, in an ambiguous (TRADED) fashion. With AIC the AI Player will receive a free Colonizer tech and all at a point of time in your standard warp game, for each specific planet type Race. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

For example:
The Gas Races will receive 2nd ability to colonize a Rock Type Planets, in about the first 25-30% of their evolution.

The Ice Races will receive 2nd ability to colonize a Rock Type Planets, in about the first 30-40% of their evolution.

The Rock Race will receive 2nd ability to colonize Ice Type Planets, in about the first 40 to 45% of their evolution.

All Races will have the 3rd and Final Colonizer type about 50 to 65 % of their evolution process.

Please note: The more AI Bonus you give, the faster the AI will evolve http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
In a No Warp game, most AI have to research at least one Colonizer Type , this may change to (ALL) in No Warp games in the final AIC release http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 21, 2003, 14:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Hmmm, let us take a look at the Component.txt files and compare.

AI Campaign was released in February 2003. And the Component.txt File programming that you described JLS, as you can see is basically IDENTICAL to the same tie in Programming, you JLS designed for AIC, that is used, and is the backbone of the Colonization – Primitive Natives by Colony Tech Mod created by EKolis and his release date of April 23, 2003 and used in various MODs like Adamant and the MOD General Woundwort is hammering out right now

I am surprised EKolis or Fryon has made no Honorable Mention of you, JLS, since this is your programming http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Sweet update, JLS. I started a game the other day with AI having a Low Bonus, and I am having the time of my live… Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[JLS]

The programming used by EKolis is extremely similar to AIC in most aspects of the RacialTrait, Tech Area, and Component File, and yes, it may or may not have, inspired him to adapt the programming to the Colony Mod.

I don’t see a problem here? GLV.
Except for the one, you are about to create http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

EDIT:
I also would like to say, that the Colony Mod is a good tool to balance some MODS, and certainly is a fine contribution to se4 gaming http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In regards to AIC Specific Programming Concepts, emulation is the best form of flattery http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
A fine example of this, is the emulation of PvKs Proportions as the se4 vehicle, for the concepts and abilities I have programmed into AI Campaign for the AI and Human Players over the past year. In addition, I have thanked PvK on many occasions for his help in this process and thru the Data Files them self http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Actually, AIC has grown, thanks to the input and suggestions of all and they are mentioned in the History file, you being one of many GLV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

=

Glad to here you are enjoying the update http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
from time to time, let me know how your game is doing.

[ June 21, 2003, 16:40: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

Hmmm, I can see AIC' AI has been deliberately toned down in one aspect or another. I was thinking about making my own AI (whink, whink... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) But I am afraid if I use the whole AIC potential, it would be way too strong. So, what are the house rules I should follow making a new AI ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[JLS]

Wow, thanks Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

There are a few basic Parameters that would be for a Specific, Race Culture, Demeanor, and some Specific Traits. As this would relate to all AI files. Whether it is the Construction, Anger, or even the Political File.

Some general Examples:
Colonizers of 2 in the explore state are balanced to some degree with Human Expansion with the Aggressive Race only, getting an extra.

The AI Early Combat Ship Construction for AI Attack/Incursion or Defend States must be on Par with a determined Human Players Ship Production (Initial Numbers, not replacement rate), if he or she needs or wants to Defend or attack.
If a stalemate is reached on average , then you have achieved a good balance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

As you can see, we can have the AI Player in AI Campaign, jump thru hoops and pull off miracles in most if not all areas of Space Empires, but the most important thing is to keep a balance, and to keep the Human Player on his best game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

When it comes to the AI Design, it will not be how it competes with other AI Players but how this new AI’s Personality will interact with the Human Player. Of course, if one AI is too dominant, then it must be toned down, as was the Eee Race, in this Last release.


Oleg, for me to be more specific on the basic Parameters, I would need to know your AIs Race, Culture, Demeanor, and Specific Traits, that you have in mind for your AI?

[ June 21, 2003, 23:05: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

It is my opinion, a race will be measured not in how many ships it can make, or whether it can do something fantastic.
What will be the measure, is in the way it conforms to the personality you assign it for the overall descriptions: Race, Culture, Demeanor, and Specific Traits, as this AI Player acts out its part in the game.

In other words, it is very easy to develop a Psycho Race, but the draw back is that this AI MUST engage in hostile actions for the most part with every body.
So I would say we do not need any more Psycho Races or Extreme Violent Races.

With your enthusiasm in Atmosphere Converters and Planet Utilization, Oleg. A Neutral to Honorable, even a Xenophobic Engineering Race would be a Challenge for you and this would fit nicely to the existing races.

Either way, it would be appreciated if we play test your race for over all balance prior to its General Release as I did with GLVs and QBs AI Races.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 21, 2003, 18:01: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by JLS:

All Races will have the 3rd and Final Colonizer type about 50 to 65 % of their evolution process.

Please note: The more AI Bonus you give, the faster the AI will evolve http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
In a No Warp game, most AI have to research at least one Colonizer Type , this may change to (ALL) in No Warp games in the final AIC release http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, speaking of no warp games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Most the AI Players seems a little aggressive opening up warps, now in No Warp Games when I give them a Low bonus.

What are your planes for future AI Campaign Versions?

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by JLS:
It is my opinion, a race will be measured not in how many ships it can make, or whether it can do something fantastic.
What will be the measure, is in the way it conforms to the personality you assign it for the overall descriptions: Race, Culture, Demeanor, and Specific Traits, as this AI Player acts out its part in the game.

In other words, it is very easy to develop a Psycho Race, but the draw back is that this AI MUST engage in hostile actions for the most part with every body.
So I would say we do not need any more Psycho Races or Extreme Violent Races.

With your enthusiasm in Atmosphere Converters and Planet Utilization, Oleg. A Neutral to Honorable, even a Xenophobic Engineering Race would be a Challenge for you and this would fit nicely to the existing races.

Either way, it would be appreciated if we play test your race for over all balance prior to its General Release as I did with GLVs and QBs AI Races.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I would have much preferred a Psychic AI Race to design. But I think, we did very well with the Sallega Empire that happen to be Neutral, Politicians and I can relate to that, what do you think, JLS.

[SunDevil]

JLS,

One of these days I promise to make a post within this topic that doesn't involve something I find in your mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If you look at the facility.txt file and the Engineering Settlement facility you will notice that there is a period after this name, and was just wondering whether this would cause an error?

SunDevil

[SunDevil]

JLS,

Another question. For the Atmospheric Modification Plants, aren't the time tables for those to be set at in years. So 10 = 1 game year, and 40 = 4 game years. If so the comments for these facilities do not match the value set. For instance in Atmospheric Modification Plant I you have the comment that this should take 4 years but the value is to 25 which should mean 2.5 game years or 25 turns, right?

SunDevil

[SunDevil]

JLS,

Another question. In the AI folder, you have the default ai_settings with 1,000,000 in research and intelligence resource generation, but in the aggressive, neutral, and defensive ai folders you have their ai_settings in research and intelligence set to only 100,000. I was just wondering if this was on purpose and if so, why?

SunDevil

[SunDevil]

JLS,

Last question, I couldn't find this mentioned anywhere, but was just wondering what changes were made to the techarea.txt file, since it has a timestamp of 6/19. Thanks.

SunDevil

[JLS]

Originally posted by SunDevil:
JLS,

One of these days I promise to make a post within this topic that doesn't involve something I find in your mod. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif If you look at the facility.txt file and the Engineering Settlement facility you will notice that there is a period after this name, and was just wondering whether this would cause an error?

SunDevil<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Do not worry about anything, SunDevil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
As far as I am concerned, you are one of the best AIC beta Testers, and you know your stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

1:
Not a problem, I had the period there for a marker only during testing; it may be removed on the next Version for that settlement.
If you noticed, I have always used the Period, Comma or this thing * as a test Marker.
Please also refer to the AI Resupply depot.

2:
Yes, you are right, you will receive the actual Atmosphere change, about 30% sooner then you may think, after the facility is completed; in this release. However, shush, do not tell anyone http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

3:
No particular reason to speak of, I decided to go with the se4 defaults here. If you notice, the Neutrals are also at the same defaults, but I may change Nultoh and Zyanaras settings prior to the Final Release http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

4:
It may have been either Weapons Platforms or Satellites starting Raise Level tech count , in a Medium tech game. The AI relies on the quantity not the quality of these two defenses, early in the game. Changing (x) to Zero should not break an existing game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
When the AI researches a good solid weapon along with the a fair combat sensor, that is when we should allow the AI to go into the High Quality but very time consuming to build; Medium and Large Satellite and Planetary Weapons Platform http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 21, 2003, 23:12: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by QBrigid:
I would have much preferred a Psychic AI Race to design. But I think, we did very well with the Sallega Empire that happen to be Neutral, Politicians and I can relate to that, what do you think, JLS.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You made a real good Race design with the Sallega Empire, QB http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I know that is what we want, but it does get annoying sometimes, with all the incoming diplomatic Messages, from that race http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
--------------------
You always like the No Bonus games any way, QB. Your game will have a steadier growth that way.
How did your High Tech, No Warp game go, by the way? Or was that the game the Fazrah slimed you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Regarding future AIC Versions, in a few weeks, the Final release will be DONE.
There should be a few surprises in that one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 21, 2003, 21:26: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

The only reason why I mentioned the research and intelligence max resource points, is for two reasons.

1. I like to play with technology cost set to high which until now, didn't realize how much the ai gets hamstrung towards the middle/late part of the game when they can only put out either 100,000 research points for some races and others can put out 1,000,000 research points.

2. With your additions of having cities, and numerous variations of population centers which each can generate a lot of research and intelligence points it just seems that the ai could potentially reseach topics faster and have a wider supply of intelligence points to defend itself against other race's intel attacks.

Just my .02 cents. It is really cool to see this mod change and get better with each new Version, great job.

SunDevil

[JLS]

And a good two cents at that, consider your advise taken http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[oleg]

Originally posted by JLS:
Oleg, for me to be more specific on the basic Parameters, I would need to know your AIs Race, Culture, Demeanor, and Specific Traits, that you have in mind for your AI?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I want to make a race that likes BIG GUNS. Default weapon will be Antimatter/Quantum torpedos. Also, to have BIG guns, the race will research and build BIG ships earlier than other races. I was thinking of using Crystalline trait but then realised that Cruiser with 3-4 crystall armor and armor plating (invulnerable to normal damege up to 50 !!) will be too tough in early game.

I also have a question about small anti-matter torpedos. It looks like an almost useless weapon ! size 11, reload 4, damage 40. One would be better of with small APB - it has double damage to shields at least or with armor skipping rocket pods. Small AMT also has -60 to -40 weapon modifier ! Worst fighter weapon IMHO. Let make it reload time of 3 !

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JLS:
Oleg, for me to be more specific on the basic Parameters, I would need to know your AIs Race, Culture, Demeanor, and Specific Traits, that you have in mind for your AI?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I want to make a race that likes BIG GUNS. Default weapon will be Antimatter/Quantum torpedos. Also, to have BIG guns, the race will research and build BIG ships earlier than other races. I was thinking of using Crystalline trait but then realised that Cruiser with 3-4 crystall armor and armor plating (invulnerable to normal damege up to 50 !!) will be too tough in early game.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, the Antimatter/Quantum torpedoes Values is a fine choice as a Big Gun at Torpedo Weapons tech 6+

If I understand you correctly, Oleg. You want to have a Crystalline Race. With a Big Gun of Antimatter/Quantum torpedoes, why not the Crystalline Weapons?

As the AI or Human Player this would take an Extremely Long time to Research all the Techs you suggest:

Quantum Torpedo
Emissive Armor Plate V
Cruiser Hull
Crystalline Armor III
Crystalline Weapons V
And a reasonable Shield and Sensors.

As a Human Player Strategy, the extreame Cost of Plate, will reduce your Fleet Size.

Most AI designs in AIC do not Exceed Emissive Armor Plate III, and this tends to ware thin on their Maintenance.
In some games, it actually will send the Terran AI into a tailspin, sometime even before he looses a few Mineral Planets

At this time the AI, does not Research Advanced Design Engineering It will be reflected as a Human Player only Tech, in the next Version.

I suggest, you use an existing AIC race as a template, for the AI you are Constructing.

Please, EMail me your AI Folder, when you are completed and we will give it a test drive, before general release http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Sullivan_JohnL@msn.com

---------------------------------------

Name := Crystalline Armor III
Description := Crystal lattice armor used to protect a ship from physical damage.
Pic Num := 191
Tonnage Space Taken := 30
Tonnage Structure := 150
Cost Minerals := 70
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 70
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Armor
Family := 34
Roman Numeral := 3
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Crystalline Technology
Tech Level Req 1 := 3
Number of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Armor
Ability 1 Descr := Is damaged before any other components on a ship.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Shield Generation From Damage
Ability 2 Descr := 15 points of damage per hit will be channeled into the shields.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 15
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Ultra Armor Plating II
Description := Heavy external armor plating covering the entire hull, which reduces the damage of every hit from most weapon types. (Use a scale mount.)
Pic Num := 309
Tonnage Space Taken := 500
Tonnage Structure := 2650
Cost Minerals := 30000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Armor
Family := 2910
Roman Numeral := 2
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 2
Tech Area Req 1 := Armor
Tech Level Req 1 := 8
Tech Area Req 2 := Advanced Design Engineering
Tech Level Req 2 := 3
Number of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Drop Troops
Ability 1 Descr :=
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Emissive Armor
Ability 2 Descr := Deflects 15 damage per hit.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 15
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Name := Emissive Armor Plate V
Description := A composite armored shell which absorbs energy and radiates it back into space. (Use a scale mount.)
Pic Num := 30
Tonnage Space Taken := 200
Tonnage Structure := 1400
Cost Minerals := 9000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 2000
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := None
General Group := Armor
Family := 1045
Roman Numeral := 5
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 3
Tech Area Req 1 := Armor
Tech Level Req 1 := 6
Tech Area Req 2 := Physics
Tech Level Req 2 := 2
Tech Area Req 3 := Emissive Armor
Tech Level Req 3 := 5
Number of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Emissive Armor
Ability 1 Descr := Negates any damage of 35 or less.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 35
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Armor
Ability 2 Descr := Is damaged before any other components on a ship.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 0
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

[ June 22, 2003, 15:45: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
I also have a question about small anti-matter torpedos. It looks like an almost useless weapon ! size 11, reload 4, damage 40. One would be better of with small APB - it has double damage to shields at least or with armor skipping rocket pods. Small AMT also has -60 to -40 weapon modifier ! Worst fighter weapon IMHO. Let make it reload time of 3 !<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks, Oleg. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Lets take a look at it, for the next Version http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 22, 2003, 18:12: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

I have a question for you. Right now the ai races don't seem to be able to build to much infrastructure on their planets. Here are two examples that if you could explain I would appreciate it.

AI_Construction_Facilities.txt

1.
AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term), Not Connected
Construction Queue Type := Mining Colony
Num Queue Entries := 14
Facility 1 Ability := Supply Generation
Facility 1 Amount := 1
Facility 2 Ability := Movement Bonus
Facility 2 Amount := 2
Facility 3 Ability := Resource Gen Modifier System - Minerals
Facility 3 Amount := 1
Facility 4 Ability := Modify Reproduction - System
Facility 4 Amount := 1
Facility 5 Ability := Change Population - System
Facility 5 Amount := 1
Facility 6 Ability := Shield Modifier - System
Facility 6 Amount := 1
Facility 7 Ability := Planet Value Change - System
Facility 7 Amount := 1
Facility 8 Ability := Reduced Maintenance Cost - System
Facility 8 Amount := 1
Facility 9 Ability := Combat Modifier - System
Facility 9 Amount := 1
Facility 10 Ability := Ship Bridge
Facility 10 Amount := 1
Facility 11 Ability := Movement Bonus
Facility 11 Amount := 5
Facility 12 Ability := Component Destroyed On Use
Facility 12 Amount := 1
Facility 13 Ability := Resource Gen Modifier Planet - Minerals
Facility 13 Amount := 1
Facility 14 Ability := Movement Bonus
Facility 14 Amount := 100

***What is the point in putting in Movement Bonus abilities to a construction queue. And how many actual mining facilities will be built? Where are the mineral storage facilities which even though the ai has low mineral costs for ship building, the actual facilites themselves are quite expensive to build. And I don't see where the ai would build towns, cities any of the other multi use structures you have added to the mod. Can the ai build these?
2.
AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term), Not Connected
Construction Queue Type := Farming Colony
Num Queue Entries := 15
Facility 1 Ability := Supply Generation
Facility 1 Amount := 1
Facility 2 Ability := Quantum Reactor
Facility 2 Amount := 2
Facility 3 Ability := Combat Modifier - System
Facility 3 Amount := 1
Facility 4 Ability := Planet Conditions Change - System
Facility 4 Amount := 1
Facility 5 Ability := Planet Value Change - System
Facility 5 Amount := 1
Facility 6 Ability := Resource Gen Modifier System - Organics
Facility 6 Amount := 1
Facility 7 Ability := Modify Reproduction - System
Facility 7 Amount := 1
Facility 8 Ability := Change Population - System
Facility 8 Amount := 1
Facility 9 Ability := Shield Modifier - System
Facility 9 Amount := 1
Facility 10 Ability := Reduced Maintenance Cost - System
Facility 10 Amount := 1
Facility 11 Ability := Ship Bridge
Facility 11 Amount := 1
Facility 12 Ability := Quantum Reactor
Facility 12 Amount := 5
Facility 13 Ability := Component Destroyed On Use
Facility 13 Amount := 1
Facility 14 Ability := Resource Gen Modifier Planet - Organics
Facility 14 Amount := 1
Facility 15 Ability := Quantum Reactor
Facility 15 Amount := 100

***What is the point in having the Quantum Reactor ability added to the construction facility queue or a ship bridge ability.

Now the only reason why I am bringing this topic up is that the ai has a very hard time in keeping up in production of resources, intel, research points, and population growth. In my games that I have played I am always in first place in the score window, and the ai players are usually far behind in scores. When I check the ai building queues they are usually empty and not building anything, even though they have room on the planet for more facilities. I have also checked the TDM-modpack and looked at the those ai races ai_facilities_construction file and especially the EarthAlliance made by Mephisto and I don't see any weird abilities added to the files, and I just don't see how the way these files are setup in your mod how they are suppose to provide the ai a chance to compete in regards to infrastructure.

This is your mod and you definitely know more about what is going on then I do, but if you could please explain your logic behind this file I would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

SunDevil

P.S. Here is a sample of the EarthAlliance facility build queue.

***EarthAlliance - Ai construction facility.txt file, created by Mephisto all rights reseverd.
***
AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term), Not Connected
Construction Queue Type := Mining Colony
Num Queue Entries := 16
Facility 1 Ability := Planet - Change Atmosphere
Facility 1 Amount := 1
Facility 2 Ability := Resource Generation - Minerals
Facility 2 Amount := 1
Facility 3 Ability := Supply Generation
Facility 3 Amount := 1
Facility 4 Ability := Spaceport
Facility 4 Amount := 1
Facility 5 Ability := Resource Generation - Minerals
Facility 5 Amount := 3
Facility 6 Ability := Point Generation - Research
Facility 6 Amount := 1
Facility 7 Ability := Space Yard
Facility 7 Amount := 1
Facility 8 Ability := Resource Generation - Minerals
Facility 8 Amount := 4
Facility 9 Ability := Resource Gen Modifier System - Minerals
Facility 9 Amount := 1
Facility 10 Ability := Resource Gen Modifier Planet - Minerals
Facility 10 Amount := 1
Facility 11 Ability := Planet - Change Minerals Value
Facility 11 Amount := 1
Facility 12 Ability := Resource Generation - Minerals
Facility 12 Amount := 6
Facility 13 Ability := Resource Storage - Mineral
Facility 13 Amount := 1
Facility 14 Ability := Resource Storage - Radioactives
Facility 14 Amount := 1
Facility 15 Ability := Resource Storage - Organics
Facility 15 Amount := 1
Facility 16 Ability := Resource Generation - Minerals
Facility 16 Amount := 100

[ June 23, 2003, 03:37: Message edited by: SunDevil ]

[cybersol]

JLS or oleg could answer this more fully.

Until then, when you find something like movement bonus for construction facilities in AIC, I recommend going to the data directory and searching Facility.txt. If you do, you will see for example that the mining type components all have the movement bonus ability.

I was first puzzled by ship components in Design Creation with the Ancient Ruins ability until I looked into components.txt http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

A lot of this is in proportions also, and it is a brilliant use of these meaningless abilities to make the AI better and more flexible.

[oleg]

About fighter weapons:

I do not like the long reload times for weapons such as small rocket pods. Just watch closer the combat reply with fighters. Typical situation: fighter group fires and have 7 turns to reload. During this time, it run away. Once it has ready weapons it turns back. But now it several turns away from enemy ships ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif It must spend several combat turns to come to close range http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I estimate the actual firing rate to be 9-10 turns. Only in big fleet battles fighters can close in to some enemy ship faster. I think fighters shuld have faster firing rate. They look silly flying back and forth under PDC fire.

Here is a curious situation from my game that prompted me to write this post :
I attack the moderate enemy fleet (about 10 frigates ) with 3 carriers (transport hulls). My fighters are armed with small rocket pods. Battle layout : enemy at the center, my ships on the east. They launch fighters and run away. Fighters fly to west, enemy advance toward carriers. Somewhere in the middle fighters encounter ships, fire their weapons and fly away to reload. They fly to WEST, while enemy ships continue to go to EAST. When fighters reload and turn back, they are dozens of sectors away ! With speed advantage of only 2, such stern chase is hopeless !! It took them 15 turns to catch up enemy ships. And only because they got to the edge of the map and killed my helpless carriers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif Overall, during the battle fighters fired only TWICE ! If they had weaker weapons but reasonable rate, I would won...

I suggest to make the reload time 4 and shave 5 points of damage.

[JLS]

Originally posted by SunDevil:
JLS,

Now the only reason why I am bringing this topic up is that the ai has a very hard time in keeping up in production of resources, intel, research points, and population growth. In my games that I have played I am always in first place in the score window, and the ai players are usually far behind in scores. When I check the ai building queues they are usually empty and not building anything, even though they have room on the planet for more facilities. I have also checked the TDM-modpack and looked at the those ai races ai_facilities_construction file and especially the EarthAlliance made by Mephisto and I don't see any weird abilities added to the files, and I just don't see how the way these files are setup in your mod how they are suppose to provide the ai a chance to compete in regards to infrastructure.

This is your mod and you definitely know more about what is going on then I do, but if you could please explain your logic behind this file I would appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

SunDevil

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good mourning, SunDevil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As far as I can see, you have been playing AIC for a few months, now.
You are a very astute, and knowledgeable se4 and one of the finest and most critical fans AIC has, and I thank you for this. Now, clearly in the Last few months you would of noticed and indicated to all of us here, if there was a lapse in all the AI players Construction goals.

However, I have been out with the flu most of Last week and this past weekend, so I am behind in the follow-up beta testing of AIC v3.02 myself, and with:

AI players Atmospheric Converters just in Beta
AI Troops vs. Human Troops are in Beta
AI Psychic Intel File coming out of Beta

You may be on to something, although I have not herd from the others in regards to any major bugs as of yet.

I am happy to here you are ahead of the AI in the games you play, most players can not achieve this so soon, in most standard AI Low bonus games; until the reach a few hundred; even some games Lasting to 500 turns before the are in the top 3. In addition, there may be a few games they are defeated or the Human Player just may resigns.

In regards to TDM, I have always said, in my opinion would be one of the most difficult mods to program the AI successfully. This is due, to the primary fact that everything they achieved is from good stock, and unmodified as it relates to the Original se4 files and I do believe the TDM team has done a fantastic job. Moreover, TDM fully deserve all the accolades they have achieved over the years.

In regards to AI Campaign, well, it is not even finished and yes, still going thru the growing pains that any project will experience, and if not for the input of yourself SunDevil and you GLV, as well as others; AIC would not be half the mod; I expect it to become, when WE all are finished, wouldn’t you say http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 23, 2003, 15:24: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

Grand Lord Vito,

Thanks for your response, but you didn't answer any of my questions. Yes, I have modified the AIC mod, but since you don't have a clue on what I have added or changed there would be no reason bring this into the discussion. I don't have a problem this time, I just wanted someone who had experience with this mod to look at the three facility build queues and tell me why with the abilities added like movement bonus and quantum reactor the ai will build more facilities and what facilities would be built.

What I did not ask for was a defence of how good this game is on the ai bonus levels. I don't care, because as you pointed out I have changed the mod. So if you have any modding experience and can contribute to my post in a productive way then please I would like to hear your opinion, if not then save your advertisements of how good the ai is on what bonus levels for someone else, because I will never ask anyone who has contributed to this mod how good it is, because I already know.

SunDevil

[JLS]

Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I am more then happy to make compromises, however most players, have no problem with the AIC Fighter system, as is.

I will need to ask, what was your Propulsion level and what was that of your recent opponent?

Oleg, any save games you may have, along with the corresponding saved Empire File, would be very beneficial, in this decision process.

I also will need to know the Version and whether it is v3.02Complete or just the upgrade and if there has been any modifications.

Sullivan_JohnL@msn.com

====

Do you make escort fighters and pure Interceptors with your own Fighter Attack strategy?
As you notice, the AI Players all have there own Fighter Strategy on S-Fighters that will by-pass your ships, planets and bases initially, and go right for your Fighters. You must counter this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

If you are just making basic fighters, with the standard (Optimal Range) or even some other standard strategies, you will be at a disadvantage, against the AI.

If you are adding Torpedo designs, as it states, this is just for Anti-Ship and will be of little value, against the AIs fighters I suspect you know this. General FYI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As a player, you must also choose the value of the equipment to be loaded on your fighter design and if a Armed Cockpit or Unarmed Cockpit is the best choice for that design and the strategy that would be best used.

Until, I have more information about your total situation, I really do not foresee that many changes in the AIC fighter system or its Tactical and Strategic Fighter Module.

[ June 23, 2003, 15:17: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

Originally posted by SunDevil:
Grand Lord Vito,

Thanks for your response, but you didn't answer any of my questions. Yes, I have modified the AIC mod, but since you don't have a clue on what I have added or changed there would be no reason bring this into the discussion. I don't have a problem this time, I just wanted someone who had experience with this mod to look at the three facility build queues and tell me why with the abilities added like movement bonus and quantum reactor the ai will build more facilities and what facilities would be built.

What I did not ask for was a defence of how good this game is on the ai bonus levels. I don't care, because as you pointed out I have changed the mod. So if you have any modding experience and can contribute to my post in a productive way then please I would like to hear your opinion, if not then save your advertisements of how good the ai is on what bonus levels for someone else, because I will never ask anyone who has contributed to this mod how good it is, because I already know.

SunDevil<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">OK, AIC and Proportions use bogus abilitites for the very simple reason. Here is why: for example, you want AI to build reseacrh lab. If you use "research generation" in construction file, it will pickup the facility with highst level of it. Unfortunately, it is Cultural Center ! AI will try to build it - for eternity. To make AI use cheaper facilities, PvK assigned to them some bogus abilities, like "movement generation" and use them in construction file. I urge you to look through facilities.txt file and compare bogus abilities assigned to different buildings and compare them with construction.txt files. The end result is the same build up as one would expect for normal (TDM for example) race !

------
Oh, why are you so jumpy ? Grand lord Vitto made a perfectly normal and constructive responce.

[ June 23, 2003, 15:48: Message edited by: oleg ]

[oleg]

JLS, I don't have that save game anymore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
It was about turn 50, both me and AI used ionic engines, everything was pretty basic stuff. Yes, I used purely anti-ship fighters since that particular AI (Cryslonite) did not have fighters yet. I am still fuming about my silly fighters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Oh, it is of course purely strategic combat issue. If I used tactical combat, it would never happened of course. I would keep fighters not too far from enemy while they reload.

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:

JLS, why isn’t it good to trade colonizer tech and why do you allow Colonizer Tech Trades in AIC?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Colony tech, trading that could go on in PBW games, may upset the Balance of Power in that game, however, I guess this could be said, for most key techs, to a less of a degree.

The Players are encouraged to trade with others, when playing AI Campaign, and most of all, especially with the AI Players. Actually your AI trades, may become the best way to victory.

[JLS]

Originally posted by SunDevil:
JLS,

***What is the point in putting in Movement Bonus abilities to a construction queue. And how many actual mining facilities will be built? Where are the mineral storage facilities which even though the ai has low mineral costs for ship building, the actual facilites themselves are quite expensive to build. And I don't see where the ai would build towns, cities any of the other multi use structures you have added to the mod. Can the ai build these?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am sorry SunDevil, I thought that Cybersol answered this perfectly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Therefore, I only answered the parts that Cybersol, did not address.

=

AFAIK, the tag idea, was originated by PvK, for the Proportion Mod. available here on the Forum.
The AI loads Culture Centers and Cities that generates Resources, Research, Intelligence Production, as well as several other neat things.

Now if we ask the AI, for example to build: (Resource Generation – Minerals) the AI would think the Cultural or a large city would be the best facility, and this would require a longer build time, then the basic Mining Facility we origonaly wanted.

Please refer to the AIC Facility file.
The tag of (Movement Bonus) is attached as you can see to the Mining Expedition, Mining Settlement, Mining Colony, as well as the Mining Complex may be properly constructed by the AI, depending on your levels of extraction.

With Quantum Reactor tag, this as you can see will instruct the AI to construct the Farming Settlement, Farming Colony, or the Farming Center, depending on you levels of extraction.

===

As this applies to, “towns, cities any of the other multi use structures”.

The way AIC is programmed. The AI will start you with the correct amount of individual Racial Population Centers/Cultural Centers, when you start your AI Campaign game. This is done because there is an Individual AIC Racial Construction Trait, for every Race even a dual Races that you may choose, as you will notice in both your AIC RacialTraits and TechArea File.

The AI will not build or replace your Starting Cultural Centers in AIC. Instead, the AI player will build one or two tiny Settlements on most of the Colonies, early in the game.
Please refer to the (Component Destroyed On Use tag) in the Facility File.

These AI Player Settlements will evolve, in sequence as your game Progresses. For Example:

Settlements
Communities
Towns
Cities
Metropolis
World Cultural Center - This would be more then the equivalent of the Starting Population Center.

Also Please note:
In each AIC AI folder, in the AI_Construction_Facilities file, you will Find both the:
Construction Queue Type := Homeworld
Construction Queue Type := Resupply Base

The Homeworld may Replace lost Population Centers here, however, they will be in the form evolving Settlements, as explained above.

The Resupply Base Colony, is actually the Colonial World for the AI Player and in with this Planet the AI, if lucky, will build the Utopia of Worlds, as would you, if you had a:

Minimum Planet Size for Type := Large
Mineral Value := 101
Organics Value := 101
Radioactives Value := 101

The above entree will be found in your AIC, AI PLANET TYPES DATA FILE, which very well may be one of the most important AI files in AI Campaign http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I hope all your questions have been answered, SunDevil

Reference:
However please do not be confused, and think that this tag, in any way; will give the AI Player or Human Player any Special Abilities. It does not.

================================================== ===========
ABILITIES DATA FILE ~AIC v2~ Proportions Mod by PvK/~AIC Modeled by JLS
================================================== ============

Warp Point - Turbulence
Value1 = Amount of damage done to objects moving through this warp point. (Normal Damage)
Value2 =
(PvK: Used as AI tag for efficient engines.)

Star - Unstable
Value1 = Chance that sun will explode each year.
Value2 =
(PvK: Used as AI tag for regular cargo storage.)

Sector - Sensor Interference
Value1 = Modifier subtracted from to-hit rolls
Value2 =
(PvK: Used as AI tag for Religious Talisman.)

Resource Generation - Minerals
Value1 = Amount of minerals generated per turn.
Value2 =
(JLS: Used as AI tag for Sensor Level.)

Resource Generation - Radioactives
Value1 = Amount of radioactives generated per turn.
Value2 =
(JLS: Used as AI tag Planetary Weapons used for AI Balance for fighters and BC ships and up.)

Planet - Change Ground Defense
Value1 = Percentage modifier to ground combat on this planet.
Value2 =
(PvK: Used as AI tag for ECM.)

Planet - Shield Generation
Value1 = Amount of shields generated.
Value2 =
(PvK: Used as AI tag for regular armor.)

Drop Troops
Value1 = Number of troops which can be dropped to attack a planet.
Value2 =
(PvK: Used as AI tag for armor plating.)

Ancient Ruins
Value1 = Number of techs areas (random) received when this planet is colonized.
Value2 =
(PvK: Used as AI tag for base / weapon platform non-fire-control-center combat sensors.)

[ June 23, 2003, 22:23: Message edited by: JLS ]

[mottlee]

JLS, Did you get my E-mail? any Ideas?

[JLS]

Yes, I did, Mottlee...

And thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I like the way you set up your Race, and this is one neat map you made http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I am now preparing a file to send you. If you can help out with this, I would greatly appreciate it.

I have seen your keen abilities to lay MINES against the AI Player in both the Proportions Files I helped you with and the AIC files you sent me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Because of this, I think you are just the man to help me balance the AI Mine Sweeping abilities in AIC, to help keep the AI on track.

Are you game, for it?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 23, 2003, 19:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

[mottlee]

Sure, I will give it a go, the map was computer made and was/is a real pisser too like about turn 8 had contact.
Just tell me what you want meb to look for and will help out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

AFAIK, the tag idea, was originated by PvK, for the Proportion Mod. available here on the Forum.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That has been in use for much longer than Proportions has been around, actually.

I know this SunDevil at High Bonus there is no way you can beat the AI, in AIC with any size default maps and with at least 5 real AI Players, in solitaire.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I will accept that challenge. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 23, 2003, 22:50: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[oleg]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
...I will accept that challenge. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please post savegames as your game progress. I would be most curios. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Or, use simultaneous turns, SE has a trouble loading heavy population units (like in AIC and Proportions) onto population transports in Classic Turns games.

[Fyron]

Or, use simultaneous turns, SE has a trouble loading heavy population units (like in AIC and Proportions) onto population transports in Classic Turns games.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Huh? I have never noticed a problem with that. Are you talking about the AIs, or what?

[JLS]

Originally posted by GLV:
at High Bonus there is no way you can beat the AI, in AIC with any size default maps and with at least 5 real AI Players, in solitaire.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
I will accept that challenge. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fryon, the trick is to start on your, name sakes System, you can't lose. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 23, 2003, 23:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by mottlee:
Sure, I will give it a go, the map was computer made and was/is a real pisser too like about turn 8 had contact.
Just tell me what you want meb to look for and will help out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks, mottlee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I will have the folder in your mail, in the morning.

Take your time, Thanks again

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
...I will accept that challenge. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Please post savegames as your game progress. I would be most curios. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Or, use simultaneous turns, SE has a trouble loading heavy population units (like in AIC and Proportions) onto population transports in Classic Turns games.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fryon,
How does this sound for a game set up.
AIC v3.02 Complete.

2000 pt Game + any Mp up to a total 1k Bonus totals 3000 for you and 2000 for the AI.

All Starting defaults should be fine.
With ANY and ALL (non AI, Nue Only) Free Option Traits you think you may need:

Name := Opt 1
Description := Human Player - advantage Results in: Better Home World.
Pic Num := 0
General Type := Advantage
Cost := 0
Trait Type := Planet Storage Space
Value 1 :=15

Name := Opt 2
Description := Human Player - advantage Results in: Higher Proportions of Resources (not recomended for Finite Games).
Pic Num := 0
General Type := Advantage
Cost := 0
Trait Type := Production
Value 1 := 200
Value 2 := 0

To include any or all Multiplayer Handicap 1-3 = 1000 free bonus points, if you wish.

Name := MP Level 1 Ladder Handicap
Description := Handicaping for Players. (Host assigned)
Pic Num := 0
General Type := Advantage
Cost := -200
Trait Type := Tech Area
Value 1 := 7
Value 2 := 0

Name := MP Level 2 Ladder Handicap
Description := Handicaping for Players (Host assigned)
Pic Num := 0
General Type := Advantage
Cost := -300
Trait Type := Tech Area
Value 1 := 7
Value 2 := 0

Name := MP Level 3 Ladder Handicap
Description := Handicaping for Players. (Host assigned)
Pic Num := 0
General Type := Advantage
Cost := -500
Trait Type := Tech Area
Value 1 := 7
Value 2 := 0
=1000 Bonus Points

I recommend you choose a Dual Class Race.
For the added Pop Centers Bonuses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

However, please play with out Strategic Fighters Hulls.

Absolutely restart, if you get a terrible Starting map.

Please play in simultaneous turns mode with High Bonus with at least 5 or more AI players (the more Violent the better) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
and any neutrals are up to you.

Please include your early Empire File with your Save.

What would be the Victory Conditions you would like to set?

Above all, lets have fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I also will PM this post to you.

[ June 24, 2003, 00:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

Fryon, the trick is to start on your, name sakes System, you can't lose.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Fryon, the trick is to start on your, name sakes System, you can't lose.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif He hasn't a clue, on what was meant. Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ June 24, 2003, 00:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:
The programming used by EKolis is extremely similar to AIC in most aspects of the RacialTrait, Tech Area, and Component File, and yes, it may or may not have, inspired him to adapt the programming to the Colony Mod.

I don’t see a problem here? GLV.
Except for the one, you are about to create http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

EDIT:
I also would like to say, that the Colony Mod is a good tool to balance some MODS, and certainly is a fine contribution to se4 gaming http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS, why isn’t it good to trade colonizer tech and why do you allow Colonizer Tech Trades in AIC?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by SunDevil:
JLS,

Now the only reason why I am bringing this topic up is that the ai has a very hard time in keeping up in production of resources, intel, research points, and population growth. In my games that I have played I am always in first place in the score window, and the ai players are usually far behind in scores. When I check the ai building queues they are usually empty and not building anything, even though they have room on the planet for more facilities.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">As we recall, SunDevel, Last time you had a problem, you modified the AIC data files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I challenge any one to tap into AIC top 3-5 leading AI in your game at any point in the game from turn 50 to 2000 and you will see the AI with a surplus in resources http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyone that has played AIC will tell you, that at low AI bonus with the default starts and even after JLS has tamed the AI since the initial release the AI is still a very tough challenge.

At Medium AI Bonus, I doubt you can even beat the AI unless you have the ultimate start with some or all the easy options and MP handy caps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I know this SunDevil at High Bonus there is no way you can beat the AI, in AIC with any size default maps and with at least 5 real AI Players, in solitaire.

[ June 23, 2003, 13:14: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Fyron]

Obviously... care to enlighten him?

[HercMighty]

I recommend you choose a Dual Class Race.
For the added Pop Centers Bonuses <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What is a Dual Class Race?

[Fyron]

Take 2 racial technology traits, such as Organic + Crystalline.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Obviously... care to enlighten him?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There are entries in systemnames.txt file like JLS, Oleg, PvK, SunDevil, Fyron... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The trick is to restart till you have your own system. Actually, your name is misspeled there - JLS thinks you are Fryon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[oleg]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Or, use simultaneous turns, SE has a trouble loading heavy population units (like in AIC and Proportions) onto population transports in Classic Turns games.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Huh? I have never noticed a problem with that. Are you talking about the AIs, or what?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, AIC and proportions AI population transports and colony ships get stucked with "cant load population" error Messages. It hapens only with classic turns.

[Desdinova]

sorry i have been out of touch for a while but i have fallen into an anti-gaming mood here lately and been going out and doing things with some friends. i have tried to keep up with this forum while on my breaks at work but they have become annoyingly strict regarding this.
anyhow regarding the unable to load population message, the only time i got that was if there were a planet with moons that had both/all been colonized. it would try to load population from all colonies in that sector.

[ June 24, 2003, 16:21: Message edited by: Desdinova ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by oleg:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Obviously... care to enlighten him?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There are entries in systemnames.txt file like JLS, Oleg, PvK, SunDevil, Fyron... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The trick is to restart till you have your own system. Actually, your name is misspeled there - JLS thinks you are Fryon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I see...

[oleg]

Back to fighters weapons - what was the idea behind removing small meson bLasters and small graviton beams ??

They fit rather well with Proportions' fighter weapons. And could easily modified according to the AIC fighter concept ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[JLS]

Good point, Oleg.

As you can see, the Non Racial Trait Player, that Plays AIC; already has more choices then the then a Race Trait players.
For example: With; DUC, Proton, Phased, Rockets and Anti-Mater Torps.

Giving the Non Racial Trait Player, what you suggest, would upset the balance.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 26, 2003, 13:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

AIC players, thank you for your input.

The Planet Atmosphere Change for the most races, is working out just fine.

However, the 2 Engineering Cultures is kicking in, a little to soon, with primarily their, Research and Intel Colonies.

V3.03 will reflect a better Planet Atmosphere Change balance. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 25, 2003, 23:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

Based on your experience what is suppose to be the average in the number of planets the ai should have colonized by turn 267.

And you might also want to look into why the ai without having researched gas or ice colony tech, because both techs are active and are at level 0 on the tech menu, have their own ship designs of ice and gas colony ships. Now this wouldn't be that big of a deal to me, but when the ai only has three rock colony ships orbiting around the homeworld and no ice or gas colony ships and there are green star gas and ice planets within their home system and by turn 267 they only have 13 total planets colonized it might be something to look into.

SunDevil

P.S. For anyone who wants to reply to this post, yes I have made changes to this mod, but I have left the whole ai and pictures folder intact, in other words, the ai strategies and specific ai construction of planet facilities and ships are left at AIC stock.

[ June 26, 2003, 06:15: Message edited by: SunDevil ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

My game is medium bonus, sorry for not saying that in the earlier post. In regards to the ai races having colony ships, this is the situation. This is a large map game most ai races have six to seven systems in their control. Most races haven't meet each other yet, so the possibility of trading techs is unlikely. What I meant to say was that all the ai races have all three types of colony ship designs available to build, but when I check the research display for a particular race they are still at level zero in gas and ice colony technology, which means they haven't yet researched that colony technology. I haven't checked the data files to see what are the requirements to gain access to build other colony ships for other planet types, I just thought I would let you know.

In regards to making changes to your mod, yes I have screwed up a couple of times by making mistakes in thinking that it was the AIC mod at first but later on proved it was my doing, but the reason why I brought this up was because for the most part I have left the ai races and their files witin the pictures folder alone, and I just wanted to know what was on the average in terms of the number planets that the ai should have in a medium bonus game.

SunDevil

P.S. Do you know what the ai difficulty setting is suppose to affect? So if I chose a high ai difficulty game with a high bonus game what would the ai in terms of advantages be set at.

[JLS]

SunDevil, HAVE they colonized any planets other then there starting type, in your game ?

If not SunDevil, you have must of altered the components file to such a degree that the AI does not receive, the other Colonizer Modules.

Because in every game we have played, they certainly have; even as we speak.

[ June 27, 2003, 00:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by SunDevil:
what the ai difficulty setting is suppose to affect? So if I chose a high ai difficulty game with a high bonus game<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">~
SunDevil, you will find AI Bonus Levels in this post
=================================================
posted June 09, 2003 01:53

I am still compiling the ReadMe File for AIC. Following will be some of the text.
-------------------------------------------------
STARTING YOUR FIRST FEW AIC v3.0+ GAMES

Neutrals for the most part are always good

After they become warm to you. Offer a trade of 50k of resources a Comm Link even your Colonizer Tech - any one; should trade for their Colonizer Tech http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Neutrals also offer the Human Player large monthly dividends through Trade and Research Treaties. Refueling rights, not to mention somebody to pick when the time suits you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~
Small Quadrants with many AI. The AI will soon be crowded and all but the most Serine may decide for the expansion fight. You will end up on the AI hit list in this style game. (Not recomended for new AIC Players)

~
For your first AIC v3.0+ game:
Play a Standard default Setup.
You may want a Medium or Large Default top Map at first.
With Low to Medium AI Player Count.
Low to Medium AI Difficulty selection.
Absolutly NONE in Computer BONUS.

In the Advanced Traits when you Edit your Race, you are Required to choose the *top HUMAN Trait* and then please take the FREE options of 1 and 2 as well as any other choices you may want.

Please, further take any or ALL the FREE MP Handicapping choices to help you build the Empire you are comfortable with. (All 3 MP) would be a bonus of 1000 Points to you - The AI does not mind, so don't you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

For 3000 Points - AI Campaign has a lot to offer the Dual Racial Trait Human Player . Any Combination is very good. Please check out each of your Population Centers on your Home World, when your game starts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~~~~~
PLEASE NOTE: The ending AI Traits are reserved for the AI, and will break your game if you choose any inadvertently.
~~~~~

Start building a Scout or two, a few Base Ship Yards, Colonizers etc.
You will need many star liners.

If you find you are neighbors with an Aggressive race, be prepaired.
~Tip~Mines are just an annoyance for this AI, so do not depend your Minefields to stop this AI for to long http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Important starting researches are, Ship Construction 2 and 3.
Military Science for Point Defence.
Construction so the Colonies will build with further designs.
Propulsion 2 is good for the Scouts to install efficient engines.
Ship Yard Techs for faster build rates if you are not Temporal Race.

Any research path is fine, above are just a few absolutely needed base line Techs, in AIC.

In regards to the Best overall Race Package in AIC, the choice may arguably be the Crystallurgy Racial Trait then the Temporal Race.

If you like Intel Projects, the Psychic Racial Trait may be for you.

Organics as expected, will give you a fine war footing. Also, there are abondent organic resource in AIC for the even the most rapacious of the Organic Species http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

You may also find that the AI in AIC to be very interactive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
=================================================
Suggested AI Computer Bonus Levels in AIC:

None: All first time Players. MP Handicap per your se4 Experience.

Low: With good AIC Economics under your belt and you start beating the AI Regularly with None bonus games. Also opens more options for the AI in No Warp Games. Remember to reset your MP Handicapping, the AI is tougher.

Medium: Very Competitive in No Warp Games in other games the AI is Extremely Tough with this setting. Good for most Multiplayer LAN or PBEM Games, with many Human Players.

High: Only a few Multiplayer games may require this setting.

The AI curb does and will increase, as the game Years tick by.
Each AI Bonus Level also will increase this AI Curb.

(The during game AI Curb advance is different then the In Game Bonus, and is fully Programable in AIC. To start and to End. Even to reverse itself for Finite)

=================================================

The best way to start with Centurion rich artifacts Systems is to generate one to your liking from the in game Quadrant menu with the Centurion Ruins map (AIC v3.01+). You may generate one to a few hundred Systems from this map… In addition, it is great for a one on one game as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I recommend you set the AI player count, relative to the Systems that you generate, for a balanced game, the less AI the better; for you that is. It may be best to keep the AI players down (1 per 8-12 Systems), and not to play with any AI bonus in this style game of AIC.

Remember, the AI likes those artifacts too.

[ June 27, 2003, 01:40: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

SunDevil,

I will answer your question in this way. In a None Bonus game, Most AI in the first few Hundred Turns will average the same or a little less, comparing similar to Colonize types, then the Average experienced Human Player.

The aggressive race ONLY. i.e. The Terrans, Xiati etc: In a None AI bonus game will average a little MORE, comparing similar to Colonize types, then the Average experienced Human Player.

Most, if not all Xenophobes: In the first few Hundred Turns, in a None AI bonus game, should average less, comparing similar to Colonize types, then the Average experienced Human Player.

I urge you, to refer to the AIC Vehicle Construction Files and Compare.
---
With this said, there are also Variables from game to game for the first few Hundred turns of a none AI bonus start.
For example, if the Rock type AI have many uncontested Systems near by. If so, any rock Player will spread, as would you or I.

Does a Gas type have any Gas type Planets in nearby Systems, if not, this AI will be slow out of the gate.

If you have a large map then yes you will have many available systems to you as a Human Player. However, the AI Player, also will have many Systems available to it.

======

I can assure you that the AI Players, will receive all Colony type modules; in your AIC game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~
However, if you are saying that the AI has no other colonizer Types in your game. You have must of altered the components file to such a degree that the AI does not receive, the other Colonizer Modules.


P.S. For anyone who wants to reply to this post, yes I have made changes to this mod, but I have left the whole ai and pictures folder intact, in other words, the ai strategies and specific ai construction of planet facilities and ships are left at AIC stock.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">SunDevil, if you continue to Modify the Files in AIC, you will continue to generate opportunities for yourself, that you will now have to explore.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 26, 2003, 12:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

[SunDevil]

JLS,

Just checked my game, went to the design menu for the first ai player and saw that they have a gas colony and ice colony design, with the right components. They currently have three rock colony ships sitting at the homeworld, with only rock planets colonized, no ice or gas planets are colonized. Which is funny because they have some goods planets which are gas and ice sitting in their home system. My assumption is that the ai is stuck for some reason in building more colony ships, maybe with these three rock colony ships just sitting at the homeworld, it prevents the ai from building more ships, based on the ratio of the numbers of colony ships to the number of planets which I think is in the ai_construction_vehicles.txt file.

I checked the components file and the only difference between the newest Version in the AIC and the my components file is that the boarding party strength has been increased to from 9 (an old value you set because I haven't edited any of the ai's colony components) to a new value of 25.

Thanks for answering my questions. I usually know what I am doing when I am modding I just for some reason can't get my changes and your mod to work to their fullest capability. It might have something to do with the fact that I have updated my mod as many times as you have updated the AIC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks for your help.

SunDevil

[Baron Grazic]

Thanks for that starting guide JLS.
I week too late for me, but it just means I'll have to start again... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
It's also my first Proportions game, so I'm sure I started with the wrong settings anyway...

[SunDevil]

JLS,

I just took over the ai player for one turn, and set the homeworld build queue to two gas colony ships and two ice colony ships. Checked back in a couple of turns and this is what happened:
With the new construction of colony ships it somehow forced the ai player to finally send the three rock colony ships that were hanging around the homeworld out to colonize planets, this happened on the next turn when the first gas colony ship was finished. A couple of turns later the ai player again had two gas colony ships and one ice colony ship hanging around the homeworld for a grand total of three colony ships which must be set somewhere as a standard. When the second and Last ice colony ship was finished, the ai player sent out one of the gas colony ships to colonize a red star gas planet ignoring a green star gas planet three spaces away from the homeworld. There is now again three colony ships around the homeworld which is one gas colony ship and two ice colony ships.

If you set this standard of having three idle colony ships on call so to speak at all times, I was just wondering where this would be at in the data or ai files. I don't think this is just my mod (because I didn't touch any of the ai files), but if you have a chance to look at one of your recent games and see if one of the ai players has three colony ships around the homeworld I would appreciate it.

SunDevil

[JLS]

SunDevil.

As I said, you can be assured, that the AI Players, will receive all Colony type modules; in your AIC game. They do, and colonize in the Unmodified AIC games we play http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~
However, if you are saying that the AI has no other colonizer Types in your game. You have must of altered the components file to such a degree that the AI does not receive, the other Colonizer Modules.


P.S. For anyone who wants to reply to this post, yes I have made changes to this mod, but I have left the whole ai and pictures folder intact, in other words, the ai strategies and specific ai construction of planet facilities and ships are left at AIC stock.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">SunDevil, if you continue to Modify the Files in AIC, you will continue to generate opportunities for yourself, that you will now have to explore

Please Note SunDevil.
What was said above applies, SunDevil. From this point on, most the problem you incur, I can NOT assist you, I can not even ask you for you’re save file, because you have made so many changes to the AIC DATA files, your game is so corrupted, it will not even load with the Standard AIC.

Sorry, please, at this point, I ask you only to post on AIC specific questions, from the unmodified AIC data files as supplied.

John

[ June 27, 2003, 15:54: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Baron Grazic. Wow, you are a sergeant, I remember when I made sergeant, it was a cool feeling to have so many Posts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In regards to PvK’s Proportions, I hope you enjoy the MOD, for without doubt, it is the one of the best out there.

In regards to AIC, when you are ready to start, you will find the ~TIP~ Readme file with in the AICampaign folder helpful, and thru out the AIC discussion thread, you may find some interesting topics, as well.

[QBrigid]

SunDevil, in my standard 400 plus turn game, also low bonus.

The 1st Place Gas Abbidon and the 2nd place Rock XiChung, have most of the Ice, Rock, and Gas Planets Colonized that they can.

Every thing is working as JLS, says.

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by SunDevil:
JLS,

Just checked my game, went to the design menu for the first ai player and saw that they have a gas colony and ice colony design, with the right components. They currently have three rock colony ships sitting at the homeworld, with only rock planets colonized, no ice or gas planets are colonized. Which is funny because they have some goods planets which are gas and ice sitting in their home system. My assumption is that the ai is stuck for some reason in building more colony ships, maybe with these three rock colony ships just sitting at the homeworld, it prevents the ai from building more ships, based on the ratio of the numbers of colony ships to the number of planets which I think is in the ai_construction_vehicles.txt file.

I checked the components file and the only difference between the newest Version in the AIC and the my components file is that the boarding party strength has been increased to from 9 (an old value you set because I haven't edited any of the ai's colony components) to a new value of 25.

Thanks for answering my questions. I usually know what I am doing when I am modding I just for some reason can't get my changes and your mod to work to their fullest capability. It might have something to do with the fact that I have updated my mod as many times as you have updated the AIC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks for your help.

SunDevil<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It looks like the well known "Colony" bug AI: the AI always build the same kind of colonizer, instead rotate the ship designes...

[JLS]

MB, can you send your save game on this, because it is not fair to speculate.

The AI does colonize very well in AIC, and as we all do see, this AI will stay very competitive through out the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 27, 2003, 20:56: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

JLS.
The AI colonizes all the planet types in my games but sometimes it will skip a few planets.
Any idea why?

On thing for sure is the AI does play outstanding.
Good job and keep up he good work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[mottlee]

Originally posted by JLS:
MB, can you send your save game on this, because it is not fair to speculate.

The AI does colonize very well in AIC, and as we all do see, this AI will stay very competitive through out the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes it dose! I am having a good Ol time trying kick but (still with mine prob)

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by JLS:
MB, can you send your save game on this, because it is not fair to speculate.

The AI does colonize very well in AIC, and as we all do see, this AI will stay very competitive through out the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just was a comment about the SunDevil post... and no, I don't have a savefile and sorry if I was just speculating. Simply seemed to me like the "colony bug" thing that I saw many times.

Finally, want to say that "Colony Bug" ship have nothing to be with an special MOD, it's a hardcoded behavior... although can be avoided in part using different lines for Gas, Ice and Rock colonizers into the contruction_vehicles.txt

[SunDevil]

JLS,

My intention has not been to take over this topic with what is happening with my mod. I am not going to ever release this mod, and I wasn't trying to get you or anyone else to troubleshoot the changes I have made to your mod. I just saw a situation in which the ai did not expand or colonize in certain situations during my games, I only mentioned it within this topic to see if you saw these circumstances as well, like I have done numerous other times in numerous other issues. This will be mostly likely my Last post in this topic, thanks for all your help and for making a great mod.

Just based on what MB said in the previous post, he is a copy of some of ai states in the ai_construction_vehicle file of the STOCK AIC MOD.

AI State := Prepare for Attack, Attack
Num Queue Entries := 20
Entry 1 Type := Base Space Yard
Entry 1 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 1 Must Have At Least := 5
Entry 2 Type := Destroy Planet
Entry 2 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 2 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 3 Type := Destroy Star
Entry 3 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 3 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 4 Type := Attack Ship
Entry 4 Planet Per Item := 20
Entry 4 Must Have At Least := 36
Entry 5 Type := Kamikaze Attack Ship
Entry 5 Planet Per Item := 40
Entry 5 Must Have At Least := 12
Entry 6 Type := Battle Cruiser
Entry 6 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 6 Must Have At Least := 8
Entry 7 Type := Battleship
Entry 7 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 7 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 8 Type := Flag Ship
Entry 8 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 8 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 9 Type := Boarding Ship
Entry 9 Planet Per Item := 40
Entry 9 Must Have At Least := 8
Entry 10 Type := Supply Ship
Entry 10 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 10 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 11 Type := Mine Sweeper
Entry 11 Planet Per Item := 200
Entry 11 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 12 Type := Fighter-S
Entry 12 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 12 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 13 Type := Carrier
Entry 13 Planet Per Item := 30
Entry 13 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 14 Type := Troop Transport
Entry 14 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 14 Must Have At Least := 8
Entry 15 Type := Support Ship
Entry 15 Planet Per Item := 60
Entry 15 Must Have At Least := 3
Entry 16 Type := Recon Satellite
Entry 16 Planet Per Item := 50
Entry 16 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 17 Type := Anti-Ship Drone
Entry 17 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 17 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 18 Type := Anti-Planet Drone
Entry 18 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 18 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 19 Type := Drone Carrier
Entry 19 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 19 Must Have At Least := 2
**Entry 20 Type := Colonizer
**Entry 20 Planet Per Item := 0
**Entry 20 Must Have At Least := 2

When the ai is in this state, as long as the ai player has two active colony ships, it will not build anymore. So if the ai is stuck within this state fighting with another race for an extended amount of time it will not build any colony ships unless the number drops below two. I have no idea where it is determined if the ai player actually colonizes a planet or not with the two available colony ships. There is no set specific types of colony ships specified in this state.

AI State := Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Num Queue Entries := 31
Entry 1 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 1 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 1 Must Have At Least := 10
Entry 2 Type := Troop
Entry 2 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 2 Must Have At Least := 1500
Entry 3 Type := Base Space Yard
Entry 3 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 3 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 4 Type := Recon Satellite
Entry 4 Planet Per Item := 50
Entry 4 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 5 Type := Fighter-S
Entry 5 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 5 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 6 Type := Satellite
Entry 6 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 6 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 7 Type := Defense base-SS
Entry 7 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 7 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 8 Type := Defense Ship
Entry 8 Planet Per Item := 30
Entry 8 Must Have At Least := 12
Entry 9 Type := Attack Ship
Entry 9 Planet Per Item := 30
Entry 9 Must Have At Least := 20
Entry 10 Type := Kamikaze Attack Ship
Entry 10 Planet Per Item := 40
Entry 10 Must Have At Least := 6
Entry 11 Type := Boarding Ship
Entry 11 Planet Per Item := 60
Entry 11 Must Have At Least := 6
Entry 12 Type := Defense Base-BS
Entry 12 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 12 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 13 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 13 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 13 Must Have At Least := 10
Entry 14 Type := Troop
Entry 14 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 14 Must Have At Least := 3000
Entry 15 Type := Fighter
Entry 15 Planet Per Item := 2
Entry 15 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 16 Type := Satellite
Entry 16 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 16 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 17 Type := Mine Layer
Entry 17 Planet Per Item := 200
Entry 17 Must Have At Least := 3
Entry 18 Type := Satellite Layer
Entry 18 Planet Per Item := 200
Entry 18 Must Have At Least := 3
Entry 19 Type := Defense base
Entry 19 Planet Per Item := 50
Entry 19 Must Have At Least := 1
**Entry 20 Type := Colonizer
**Entry 20 Planet Per Item := 0
**Entry 20 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 21 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 21 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 21 Must Have At Least := 15
Entry 22 Type := Troop
Entry 22 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 22 Must Have At Least := 5000
Entry 23 Type := Fighter
Entry 23 Planet Per Item := 2
Entry 23 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 24 Type := Troop Transport
Entry 24 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 24 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 25 Type := Carrier
Entry 25 Planet Per Item := 30
Entry 25 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 26 Type := Population Transport
Entry 26 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 26 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 27 Type := Close Warp Point
Entry 27 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 27 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 28 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 28 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 28 Must Have At Least := 25
Entry 29 Type := Troop
Entry 29 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 29 Must Have At Least := 10000
Entry 30 Type := Fighter
Entry 30 Planet Per Item := 2
Entry 30 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 31 Type := Attack Ship
Entry 31 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 31 Must Have At Least := 50

In this ai state of defense, as long as the ai player has at least one colony ship it will not build anymore. So if the ai stays in this state for a prolonged period of time, as long as the ai has at least one colony ship of any type, it will not build anymore. There is no set specific colony type ships within in this state.

AI State := Not Connected
Num Queue Entries := 30
Entry 1 Type := Troop
Entry 1 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 1 Must Have At Least := 350
Entry 2 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 2 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 2 Must Have At Least := 5
Entry 3 Type := Fighter-S
Entry 3 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 3 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 4 Type := Base Space Yard
Entry 4 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 4 Must Have At Least := 3
Entry 5 Type := Attack Ship
Entry 5 Planet Per Item := 60
Entry 5 Must Have At Least := 6
Entry 6 Type := Defense Ship
Entry 6 Planet Per Item := 60
Entry 6 Must Have At Least := 6
Entry 7 Type := Defense base
Entry 7 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 7 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 8 Type := Kamikaze Attack Ship
Entry 8 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 8 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 9 Type := Boarding Ship
Entry 9 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 9 Must Have At Least := 2
**Entry 10 Type := Colony * (Rock)
**Entry 10 Planet Per Item := 0
**Entry 10 Must Have At Least := 2
**Entry 11 Type := Colony * (Ice)
**Entry 11 Planet Per Item := 0
**Entry 11 Must Have At Least := 3
**Entry 12 Type := Colony * (Gas)
**Entry 12 Planet Per Item := 0
**Entry 12 Must Have At Least := 1
**Entry 13 Type := Colonizer
**Entry 13 Planet Per Item := 30
**Entry 13 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 14 Type := Open Warp Point
Entry 14 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 14 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 15 Type := Create Planet
Entry 15 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 15 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 16 Type := Satellite
Entry 16 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 16 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 17 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 17 Planet Per Item := 20
Entry 17 Must Have At Least := 10
Entry 18 Type := Satellite Layer
Entry 18 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 18 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 19 Type := Mine Layer
Entry 19 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 19 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 20 Type := Fighter
Entry 20 Planet Per Item := 2
Entry 20 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 21 Type := Carrier
Entry 21 Planet Per Item := 60
Entry 21 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 22 Type := Support Ship
Entry 22 Planet Per Item := 30
Entry 22 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 23 Type := Troop Transport
Entry 23 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 23 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 24 Type := Recon Satellite
Entry 24 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 24 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 25 Type := Mine Sweeper
Entry 25 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 25 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 26 Type := Population Transport
Entry 26 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 26 Must Have At Least := 8
Entry 27 Type := Anti-Ship Drone
Entry 27 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 27 Must Have At Least := 6
Entry 28 Type := Anti-Planet Drone
Entry 28 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 28 Must Have At Least := 6
Entry 29 Type := Drone Carrier
Entry 29 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 29 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 30 Type := Troop
Entry 30 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 30 Must Have At Least := 0

I posted this Last state as an example of the ai most likely building enough colony ships of different types and their placement towards the top of the queue to provide the ai an opportunity to colonize planets, where as the other ai states do not possess these characteristics.

In the other states that are not posted there are colony type specific ships listed within the state, but they are at the bottom of the queue in each state.

I have a copy of a saved stock AIC mod game around turn 225 where all I did was hit end of turn 225 times for my race and checked the ai players every 50 turns or so. The ai didn't really expand in that game either. If you want me to send you a copy let me know.

SunDevil

P.S. If you go to the abbidon ai construction vehicles.txt file and look at the Infrastructure state, if you count each entry type you will notice this:

Entry 13 Type := Defense Base-SB
Entry 13 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 13 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 14 Type := Colonizer
Entry 14 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 14 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 15 Type := Troop
Entry 15 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 15 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 10 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 10 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 10 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 11 Type := Satellite
Entry 11 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 11 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 12 Type := Mine
Entry 12 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 12 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 13 Type := Satellite Layer
Entry 13 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 13 Must Have At Least := 2

This might be causing problems, it might be something to look into.

[ June 28, 2003, 04:51: Message edited by: SunDevil ]

[Fyron]

P.S. Do you know what the ai difficulty setting is suppose to affect? So if I chose a high ai difficulty game with a high bonus game what would the ai in terms of advantages be set at. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those settings determine which AI ministers are available to the AIs. High means all, Medium means some are unavailable (partial crippling), low means many are unavailable (crippling).

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> P.S. Do you know what the ai difficulty setting is suppose to affect? So if I chose a high ai difficulty game with a high bonus game what would the ai in terms of advantages be set at. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those settings determine which AI ministers are available to the AIs. High means all, Medium means some are unavailable (partial crippling), low means many are unavailable (crippling).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fyron, this is a question, not a statement by me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
In regards to AI Difficulty:

Is it also tied into AI Settings file.
Personality Group := 3
-----

Tied into DATA Settings file:

Random Player Personality Groups := 4
Random Player Personality Group 1 Percent := 30
Random Player Personality Group 2 Percent := 30
Random Player Personality Group 3 Percent := 30
Random Player Personality Group 4 Percent := 10
=====
That ties into the Start New Game (Players Menu Interface)

Example: Computer Players Difficulty of:
Low, med, high

[ June 28, 2003, 14:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

SunDevil, this is not the only area in se4 programming that AIC has strayed from the norms you and others may be used to, as many have seen thru play, the AI Players competitiveness, excells in AI Campaign.

Other then, AIC’s Infrastructure variation. The other States are textbook, with Aaron Halls defaults groupings. Also, includes a variation of MB’s AI Colonizer efficiency protocol.

Others that play AIC do attest, that the AI does colonize well, and the Human Player must play a good game thru out; in order to keep up with this AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

If the Colonizers, where to be moved up in Priority or a PPI added to the Colonizers in some AI State groupings, as you may be suggesting SunDevil. The AI Player WILL in FACT make more Colonizers and then burden the Human Players as opposed to just challenge the Human Player in a starting [None Bonus AI Game].

====

Originally posted by SunDevil:

When the ai is in this state, as long as the ai player has two active colony ships, it will not build anymore. So if the ai is stuck within this state fighting with another race for an extended amount of time it will not build any colony ships unless the number drops below two. I have no idea where it is determined if the ai player actually colonizes a planet or not with the two available colony ships. There is no set specific types of colony ships specified in this state.

AI State := Prepare for Attack, Attack
AI State := Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">SunDevil.
In regards to many Colonizers in the Prepare Attack and Attack States, you do not expect the AI Player to Attack with Colonizers. The Colonizers will come from the Secure Holdings State and only if Victorious from the Attack State. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In regards to many Colonizers in ANY DEFENSE STATE, you do not expect the AI Player to DEFEND ITSELF with Colonizers do you SunDevil?

There is a lot of thought that must go into an AI Players Vehicle Construction file. It cannot be arbitrary.



Reference

Infrastructure state, if you count each entry type you will notice this:

Entry 13 Type := Defense Base-SB
Entry 13 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 13 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 14 Type := Colonizer
Entry 14 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 14 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 15 Type := Troop
Entry 15 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 15 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 10 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 10 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 10 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 11 Type := Satellite
Entry 11 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 11 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 12 Type := Mine
Entry 12 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 12 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 13 Type := Satellite Layer
Entry 13 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 13 Must Have At Least := 2

This might be causing problems, it might be something to look into:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Since I programed this SD, and it works without errors, the AI will do what I want, when I want and how I want.
When it is supposed to do it, as per its se4 AI State Change Logic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Further AIC Reference

AI State := Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion
Num Queue Entries := 27
Entry 1 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 1 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 1 Must Have At Least := 10
Entry 2 Type := Troop
Entry 2 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 2 Must Have At Least := 140
Entry 3 Type := Base Space Yard
Entry 3 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 3 Must Have At Least := 3
Entry 4 Type := Attack Ship
Entry 4 Planet Per Item := 30
Entry 4 Must Have At Least := 26
Entry 5 Type := Kamikaze Attack Ship
Entry 5 Planet Per Item := 60
Entry 5 Must Have At Least := 12
Entry 6 Type := Boarding Ship
Entry 6 Planet Per Item := 60
Entry 6 Must Have At Least := 8
Entry 7 Type := Colonizer
Entry 7 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 7 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 8 Type := Mine Sweeper
Entry 8 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 8 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 9 Type := Fighter-S
Entry 9 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 9 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 10 Type := Carrier
Entry 10 Planet Per Item := 30
Entry 10 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 11 Type := Support Ship
Entry 11 Planet Per Item := 50
Entry 11 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 12 Type := Troop Transport
Entry 12 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 12 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 13 Type := Anti-Ship Drone
Entry 13 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 13 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 14 Type := Anti-Planet Drone
Entry 14 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 14 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 15 Type := Drone Carrier
Entry 15 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 15 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 16 Type := Defense Ship
Entry 16 Planet Per Item := 40
Entry 16 Must Have At Least := 18
Entry 17 Type := Satellite
Entry 17 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 17 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 18 Type := Mine
Entry 18 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 18 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 19 Type := Mine Layer
Entry 19 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 19 Must Have At Least := 3
Entry 20 Type := Satellite Layer
Entry 20 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 20 Must Have At Least := 3
Entry 21 Type := Recon Satellite
Entry 21 Planet Per Item := 50
Entry 21 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 22 Type := Population Transport
Entry 22 Planet Per Item := 50
Entry 22 Must Have At Least := 8
Entry 23 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 23 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 23 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 24 Type := Troop
Entry 24 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 24 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 25 Type := Colony * (Rock)
Entry 25 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 25 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 26 Type := Colony * (Ice)
Entry 26 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 26 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 27 Type := Colony * (Gas)
Entry 27 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 27 Must Have At Least := 1

AI State := Exploration
Num Queue Entries := 44
Entry 1 Type := Troop
Entry 1 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 1 Must Have At Least := 350
Entry 2 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 2 Planet Per Item := 20
Entry 2 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 3 Type := Base Space Yard
Entry 3 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 3 Must Have At Least := 3
Entry 4 Type := Defense Base-SS
Entry 4 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 4 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 5 Type := Science Vessel
Entry 5 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 5 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 6 Type := Colonizer
Entry 6 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 6 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 7 Type := Defense Ship
Entry 7 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 7 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 8 Type := Kamikaze Attack Ship
Entry 8 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 8 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 9 Type := Science Vessel
Entry 9 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 9 Must Have At Least := 3
Entry 10 Type := Colonizer
Entry 10 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 10 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 11 Type := Defense Ship
Entry 11 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 11 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 12 Type := Science Vessel
Entry 12 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 12 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 13 Type := Defense Ship
Entry 13 Planet Per Item := 90
Entry 13 Must Have At Least := 3
Entry 14 Type := Attack Ship
Entry 14 Planet Per Item := 50
Entry 14 Must Have At Least := 12
Entry 15 Type := Kamikaze Attack Ship
Entry 15 Planet Per Item := 70
Entry 15 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 16 Type := Boarding Ship
Entry 16 Planet Per Item := 70
Entry 16 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 17 Type := Troop
Entry 17 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 17 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 18 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 18 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 18 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 19 Type := Mine
Entry 19 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 19 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 20 Type := Satellite
Entry 20 Planet Per Item := 20
Entry 20 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 21 Type := Mine Layer
Entry 21 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 21 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 22 Type := Satellite Layer
Entry 22 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 22 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 23 Type := Population Transport
Entry 23 Planet Per Item := 50
Entry 23 Must Have At Least := 8
Entry 24 Type := Defense Base-SS
Entry 24 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 24 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 25 Type := Troop
Entry 25 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 25 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 26 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 26 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 26 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 27 Type := Supply Ship
Entry 27 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 27 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 28 Type := Fighter-S
Entry 28 Planet Per Item := 2
Entry 28 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 29 Type := Carrier
Entry 29 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 29 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 30 Type := Support Ship
Entry 30 Planet Per Item := 40
Entry 30 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 31 Type := Troop
Entry 31 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 31 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 32 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 32 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 32 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 33 Type := Battle Cruiser
Entry 33 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 33 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 34 Type := Battleship
Entry 34 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 34 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 35 Type := Flag Ship
Entry 35 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 35 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 36 Type := Recon Satellite
Entry 36 Planet Per Item := 50
Entry 36 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 37 Type := Troop Transport
Entry 37 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 37 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 38 Type := Defense Base
Entry 38 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 38 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 39 Type := Create Planet
Entry 39 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 39 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 40 Type := Open Warp Point
Entry 40 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 40 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 41 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 41 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 41 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 42 Type := Fighter-S
Entry 42 Planet Per Item := 2
Entry 42 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 43 Type := Troop
Entry 43 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 43 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 44 Type := Colony * (Rock)
Entry 44 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 44 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 45 Type := Colony * (Ice)
Entry 45 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 45 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 46 Type := Colony * (Gas)
Entry 46 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 46 Must Have At Least := 1

AI State := Infrastructure
Num Queue Entries := 40
Entry 1 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 1 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 1 Must Have At Least := 10
Entry 2 Type := Base Space Yard
Entry 2 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 2 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 3 Type := Fighter-S
Entry 3 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 3 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 4 Type := Troop
Entry 4 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 4 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 5 Type := Defense base-SS
Entry 5 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 5 Must Have At Least := 3
Entry 6 Type := Defense Ship
Entry 6 Planet Per Item := 60
Entry 6 Must Have At Least := 6
Entry 7 Type := Attack Ship
Entry 7 Planet Per Item := 30
Entry 7 Must Have At Least := 20
Entry 8 Type := Kamikaze Attack Ship
Entry 8 Planet Per Item := 60
Entry 8 Must Have At Least := 6
Entry 9 Type := Battle Cruiser
Entry 9 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 9 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 10 Type := Battleship
Entry 10 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 10 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 11 Type := Flag Ship
Entry 11 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 11 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 12 Type := Boarding Ship
Entry 12 Planet Per Item := 60
Entry 12 Must Have At Least := 6
Entry 13 Type := Defense Base-SB
Entry 13 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 13 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 14 Type := Colonizer
Entry 14 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 14 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 15 Type := Troop
Entry 15 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 15 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 10 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 10 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 10 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 11 Type := Satellite
Entry 11 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 11 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 12 Type := Mine
Entry 12 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 12 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 13 Type := Satellite Layer
Entry 13 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 13 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 14 Type := Mine Layer
Entry 14 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 14 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 15 Type := Mine Sweeper
Entry 15 Planet Per Item := 200
Entry 15 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 16 Type := Fighter-S
Entry 16 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 16 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 17 Type := Carrier
Entry 17 Planet Per Item := 60
Entry 17 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 18 Type := Support Ship
Entry 18 Planet Per Item := 30
Entry 18 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 19 Type := Troop
Entry 19 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 19 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 20 Type := Troop Transport
Entry 20 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 20 Must Have At Least := 4
Entry 21 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 21 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 21 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 22 Type := Anti-Planet Drone
Entry 22 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 22 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 23 Type := Anti-Ship Drone
Entry 23 Planet Per Item := 10
Entry 23 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 24 Type := Drone Carrier
Entry 24 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 24 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 25 Type := Population Transport
Entry 25 Planet Per Item := 80
Entry 25 Must Have At Least := 6
Entry 26 Type := Recon Satellite
Entry 26 Planet Per Item := 50
Entry 26 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 27 Type := Attack Base
Entry 27 Planet Per Item := 200
Entry 27 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 28 Type := Create Planet
Entry 28 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 28 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 29 Type := Open Warp Point
Entry 29 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 29 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 30 Type := Close Warp Point
Entry 30 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 30 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 31 Type := Destroy Storm
Entry 31 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 31 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 32 Type := Destroy Black Hole
Entry 32 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 32 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 33 Type := Destroy Nebulae
Entry 33 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 33 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 34 Type := Create Star
Entry 34 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 34 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 35 Type := Defense base
Entry 35 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 35 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 36 Type := Weapon Platform
Entry 36 Planet Per Item := 5
Entry 36 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 37 Type := Troop
Entry 37 Planet Per Item := 1
Entry 37 Must Have At Least := 0
Entry 38 Type := Colony * (Rock)
Entry 38 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 38 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 39 Type := Colony * (Ice)
Entry 39 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 39 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 40 Type := Colony * (Gas)
Entry 40 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 40 Must Have At Least := 1

[ June 28, 2003, 17:01: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Fyron]

Originally posted by JLS:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> P.S. Do you know what the ai difficulty setting is suppose to affect? So if I chose a high ai difficulty game with a high bonus game what would the ai in terms of advantages be set at. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Those settings determine which AI ministers are available to the AIs. High means all, Medium means some are unavailable (partial crippling), low means many are unavailable (crippling).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Fyron, this is a question, not a statement by me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Huh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif What are you talking about? That was a question SunDevil asked, and it recieved no answer until I answered it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

In regards to AI Difficulty:

Is it also tied into AI Settings file.
Personality Group := 3
-----

Tied into DATA Settings file:

Random Player Personality Groups := 4
Random Player Personality Group 1 Percent := 30
Random Player Personality Group 2 Percent := 30
Random Player Personality Group 3 Percent := 30
Random Player Personality Group 4 Percent := 10
=====
That ties into the Start New Game (Players Menu Interface)

Example: Computer Players Difficulty of:
Low, med, high<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm... no. Those settings have absolutely nothing to do with AI difficulty. Those same settings are used no matter which difficulty you choose.

[Fyron]

Since I programed this SD, and it works without errors, the AI will do what I want, when I want and how I want.
When it is supposed to do it, as per its se4 AI State Change Logic.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You don't think the repeated numbers are a problem? There are two Entry 10s, 11s, 12s, and 13s. They look problematic to me...

[cybersol]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
You don't think the repeated numbers are a problem? There are two Entry 10s, 11s, 12s, and 13s. They look problematic to me...<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, the infrastructure queues definitely need a quick run through renumber.exe. I highly recommend that program if you guys are not using it already.

[JLS]

Thanks for the input for Infrastructure recycled entries, but it been like this for almost a year and has worked fine for the AI in AIC, but I can see where it will make you wonder http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Fyron, thanks for answering the question in regards to AI difficulty. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 28, 2003, 22:00: Message edited by: JLS ]

[macjimmy]

Hey, first post here in the forums, just thought I'd say I'm really enjoying AIC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Macjimmy

[JLS]

Originally posted by Master Belisarius:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JLS:
[qb] Simply seemed to me like the "colony bug" thing that I saw many times.

Finally, want to say that "Colony Bug" ship have nothing to be with an special MOD, it's a hardcoded behavior... although can be avoided in part using different lines for Gas, Ice and Rock colonizers into the contruction_vehicles.txt<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed MB. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
AIC does have combined and different lines for Gas, Ice and Rock colonizers into the contruction_vehicles.txt lines http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Basically, as per your teachings, MB; a few months ago http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

If I am coming across chaff in my Posts. It is because of this flu and meds, I need to return to work, I am climbing the walls http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ June 28, 2003, 13:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

[cybersol]

Originally posted by JLS:
Thanks for the input for Infrastructure recycled entries, but it been like this for almost a year and has worked fine for the AI in AIC, but I can see where it will make you wonder.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was just putting in a plug for renumber.exe. It can be downloaded here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newuploads/1054660738.zip). I have been amazed at how much time and effort it saves. I used to cringe at having to move entries around in ship design and construction. Now, Ctrl-C twice and Ctrl-V twice and it has done all the work of renumbering for me.

P.S. Please check your private mail JLS.

[oleg]

I play Organic+Religious race. It gives me Macrobiotic City and Spiritual City. I like Macrobiotic more - it gives more research. But upgrades go settlement -> town -> spir.city http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Any way to change it ?

[Spoo]

In a high-tech start the initial facilities on my homeworld are significantly less than ideal. Is this fixable?

Also, with "show only latest" in high-tech, some facilites and components show an obsolete Version next to the newer one (Psychic Intel Center III comes to mind as a specific example). I suppose some of these may be intensional with the facilities to avoid abuse of upgrading, but for the components I imagine this is a minor bug.

Also, I've noticed that maintainence seems higher in AIC. What is the base maint. cost, and how low can you get it by stacking racial + cultural + component + system-wide facility modifiers? Is there a min. maint cost like in stock SE4, or can you get it to zero?

[JLS]

Originally posted by cybersol:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JLS:
Thanks for the input for Infrastructure recycled entries, but it been like this for almost a year and has worked fine for the AI in AIC, but I can see where it will make you wonder.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was just putting in a plug for renumber.exe.

P.S. Please check your private mail JLS.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Cybersol, thank you for posting this program and you may have meant well... .

However, it advised that AIC Players not to alter any files, Data or otherwise, at least until they have experienced the game as the Author intended.

Cybersol, there is no new PMs from your self in my box.

[ June 29, 2003, 18:55: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
I play Organic+Religious race. It gives me Macrobiotic City and Spiritual City. I like Macrobiotic more - it gives more research. But upgrades go settlement -> town -> spir.city

Any way to change it ?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good question Oleg.

The Spiritual Cities tend to generate about much more intelligence and less research per month. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
The Spiritual Cities also will produce about 30% more Organics then most other comparable Cities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

===
AIC Human Player, Urban Colonial Development progressition.

Colonial Settlement
Towns
Cities
Spiritual City (Religious traits)
Temporal City (Temporal traits)
Telekinetic City (Psychic traits)
City of Crystal (Crystal traits)
Macrobiotic City (Organic traits)

The Metropolitan Centers below are Continental in size and tend to elevated and vertical.
Metropolis
Megalopolis
Cultural Center

[ June 29, 2003, 18:48: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

In a high-tech start the initial facilities on my homeworld are significantly less than ideal. Is this fixable?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good, question, Spoo.

In some Mods High Tech Starts are not recommended, and are used primarily for testing purposes and AIC is one of these type Mods..
AIC is optimized for Standard tech starts, and Medium tech Starts where a players gets a larger starting count of Techs. It is rare that one may start a game with all techs available, but sure, AIC will give some interesting results for both the Human and the AI Players.


Also, I've noticed that maintainence seems higher in AIC. What is the base maint. cost, and how low can you get it by stacking racial + cultural + component + system-wide facility modifiers? Is there a min. maint cost like in stock SE4, or can you get it to zero?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, the maintenance in AIC is at a premium.
In regards to how low a Human Player can achieve this in AIC this will depend on the Race and Culture you choose, the Research path you follow the amount of investment you are willing to invest in some Characteristics and the maximum Ship size and type you wish to build.

There are many Paths to take in AIC to play a successful game and this should be experimented and decided by the individual Player. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif


Also, with "show only latest" in high-tech, some facilites and components show an obsolete Version next to the newer one (Psychic Intel Center III comes to mind as a specific example). I suppose some of these may be intensional with the facilities to avoid abuse of upgrading, but for the components I imagine this is a minor bug.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is a result of the latest upgrade when AIC added more facility options for the Human Players as result it currently displays the added Facilities from the previous upgrade. The addition of the Psychic Intel Center IV and V Facility comes to mind as a specific example

The next up grade will list them as usual and any new facilities added in sequence will be listed as you pointed out; as to highlight the additions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 29, 2003, 18:46: Message edited by: JLS ]

[mottlee]

JLS
check PM's

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

Thanks Mottlee http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The new file is on the way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by JLS:

As this applies to, “towns, cities any of the other multi use structures”.

The way AIC is programmed. The AI will start you with the correct amount of individual Racial Population Centers/Cultural Centers, when you start your AI Campaign game. This is done because there is an Individual AIC Racial Construction Trait, for every Race even a dual Races that you may choose, as you will notice in both your AIC RacialTraits and TechArea File.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS.
How does this apply to other buildings in AIC and the {AI Only} trait that up until now has only been seen in AI Campaign?

[Fyron]

the {AI Only} trait that up until now has only been seen in AI Campaign? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There have been a number of mods that have AI only traits, actually. None of the major mods have had them, but some more obscure ones have.

[JLS]

Originally posted by QBrigid:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by JLS:

As this applies to, “towns, cities any of the other multi use structures”.

The way AIC is programmed. The AI will start you with the correct amount of individual Racial Population Centers/Cultural Centers, when you start your AI Campaign game. This is done because there is an Individual AIC Racial Construction Trait, for every Race even a dual Races that you may choose, as you will notice in both your AIC RacialTraits and TechArea File.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS.
How does this apply to other buildings in AIC and the {AI Only} trait that up until now has only been seen in AI Campaign?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I programmed a Racial Construction Tech to the AI Only Trait so when this trait tie ins are called in the AI Player or AI Neutrals Player General File it will load all the needed Starting information for that AI. The same principle applies when I want the game to load Racial Players Population Centers for the Human Players.

With the AI Balance tech and Human Balance Techs this allows certain Components, Facilities, Intel Projects, Research, Etc to be only accessed by the either the Human Player, Neutral Player or the AI Only Player.

I expect this to be very useful in future Mods, for example, this style of programming has already helped some mod designers of late:

QuarianRex: with his outstanding and creative; Primitive mod he made Last April, that ties to the Neutral players.

Fyrons: Adamant Mod with the (AI ONLY), and if you notice has tied into the Tech and Facilities file as well for his AI, this past month.

To name a few.

It enables the game to load facilities for the Players at the very start of a game, and allows the AI ONLY to have specifics that a Human Player cannot have and of course visa versa; it will add much more versatility to any Mod

[ July 01, 2003, 19:43: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Phoenix-D]

The best use IMO is to have a seperate AI tech tree, to trick it into doing what you want.

Ex: the AI always uses the Last ship or mount in a list. If you want the biggest ships at the top, the AI would normally end up using Escorts the whole game..but adding a seperate area with duplicate ships will make it behave normally. Same with mounts.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> the {AI Only} trait that up until now has only been seen in AI Campaign? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There have been a number of mods that have AI only traits, actually. None of the major mods have had them, but some more obscure ones have.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm sorry, but AIC is a MAJOR mod. It gives a LOT of entertainment to the solo play !

Ouhh. Another Major example: P&N game - you play as pirate and all AI play "normal" - is't an exaple of "AI only" trait ??

[ July 01, 2003, 20:35: Message edited by: oleg ]

[Phoenix-D]

"Ouhh. Another Major example: P&N game - you play as pirate and all AI play "normal" - is't an exaple of "AI only" trait "

No, because the human player can play that as well, and isn't discouraged. Its normal, not AI only..

[oleg]

Hah ! JLS' warning "AI only" is just a suggestion as well. You can play AIC with the cream of "AI only" traits and kill them all VERY FAST.

All this business about "don't pick this trait -it is not for you" is absolutely identical in AIC and PandN. You get the house rules, please folloe them.

[Spoo]

Was it intensional that Solar Sail III generate more movement points than Efficient Quantum Engines III?

[mottlee]

JLS, Mine FYI up-date....restarted to test the data you had sent so far no war http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif but the AI seems to be building sweepers into the fleets now, I will keep you posted.

[JLS]

HI, everyone.

I am back from vacation, and I will answer all Posts, PMs and Emails…

There will be another update AIC soon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Good to be back onboard http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[HercMighty]

Any update?

[Makinus]

I noticed that mining and refining components can be put in starbases but farming ones can't.... is this proposital?

In my AI Campaign games, ehn i start in Medium technology level, i found a viable strategy to build Mining and Refining bases around planets that i cn't or don't want to colonize...

But i can't create Farming bases.....

Other thing: you can't put cargo compnents in starbases? Is this proposital too?

Thanks

[JLS]

Originally posted by HercMighty:
Any update?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry about the AIC update not being released as of yet.
I have been slammed at work, and have not tested the changes through, as of yet.

Did rearranged the facilities to be in sequence from the Last update fixed some typos reduced the range of the Bio Weapons and tweaked the Fighters as well as several AI growth tweaks that need to be tested for play balance still, however.

It should be ready in a few weeks, and thanks for your patience, this is the busy time for my industry.

John

[ August 06, 2003, 16:36: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Makinus:
I noticed that mining and refining components can be put in starbases but farming ones can't.... is this proposital?

In my AI Campaign games, ehn i start in Medium technology level, i found a viable strategy to build Mining and Refining bases around planets that i cn't or don't want to colonize...

But i can't create Farming bases.....

Other thing: you can't put cargo compnents in starbases? Is this proposital too?

Thanks<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi Makinus.

The Habitat Domes is the next best way to harvest Organics outside of your Colonies.

Cargo bays for Star Bases maybe a good introduction, however the AI will not use this option efectivly, so we will have to test this for play balance.

[oleg]

Size 5 and restriction "no more than 2" for satellite armor is rather inconvinient.
For example, i want to make a missile satellite : size 80, 10 goes to core, 50 to missile. Rest is 20. Now I can use only 10 for armor and remaining 10 is basically lost - there is nothing usefull for missile satellite.
Please, double size and hit points for satlleite armor !

[oleg]

I am surprised with poor AI weapon platform designs.
For example, oragnic races (xi'chung, drushoka and ukratal) build WPs with CSM I when they have seeking parasite III http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Is it on purpose or you did't optimize WP designs ?

[Makinus]

Where i change the maintenance cost of ships (to decrease them)? What will be the effects in the AI of this Mod?

Thanks

[oleg]

Originally posted by Makinus:
Where i change the maintenance cost of ships (to decrease them)? What will be the effects in the AI of this Mod?

Thanks<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You must edit VehicleSize.txt file. Change "modified maintanence cost" ability to what you like.

If you are playing with bonused AI (don't try higher than low ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ), decreased maintanence will have almost no effect on AI, it is already overproduce resources and AI' number of ships is directly regulated by construction.txt file and not by available resources. Besides, since humans and AI have different shipsize entries, you can modify only humans' or AI' ships !

[JLS]

Originally posted by Makinus:
Where i change the maintenance cost of ships (to decrease them)? What will be the effects in the AI of this Mod?

Thanks<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oleg is right on with your answer... Makinus

If the maintenance is lowered for example on Human Carriers, then you will have the ability to have a larger CV fleet and hence offset the balance of play a bit against the AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
I am surprised with poor AI weapon platform designs.
For example, oragnic races (xi'chung, drushoka and ukratal) build WPs with CSM I when they have seeking parasite III http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Is it on purpose or you did't optimize WP designs ?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes Oleg, I agree

The Organic Races could use a better Missile base design to capitalize on the level 4+ parasite missiles. However, it is tough to beat the AI missile bases, thru level III, for cost and effectiveness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

When the AI reaches Level 2 Weapons platforms that is when their special weapons and creativity kicks in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Can you give some of the AI designs a look over and please tweak where necessary?

Spare time is a real crunch for me, until the fall seasons.

[ August 13, 2003, 16:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
Size 5 and restriction "no more than 2" for satellite armor is rather inconvinient.
For example, i want to make a missile satellite : size 80, 10 goes to core, 50 to missile. Rest is 20. Now I can use only 10 for armor and remaining 10 is basically lost - there is nothing usefull for missile satellite.
Please, double size and hit points for satlleite armor !<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">100 satellites can be devastating, adding more armor may add to the longevity for this devastation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

However, a 10k armor variant can be tested for the satellite, however a to hit penalties may be added, what are your thoughts.

The most effective weapon versus your enemies Satellites-is your fighter. In addition, the AI will use its fighters where practical as a priority to take out your Sats.

The level one (80k) satellite platform is excellent for a Missile sat and can accommodate a 20kt Point Defense Cannon.

However Oleg, you have an excellent idea, where as we can modify a small beam point defense mount for the satellite at a cost of 15kt this will grant some space to accommodate a small 5kt coating of armor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[oleg]

I don't think it will change balance.
Satellites are a poor platform for direct fire weapons. Even with sensors 3 and RT 3 (!!) my satellites have a tough time hitting AI' frigates and destroyers. Missiles are better but a normal sized AI fleet (30+ ships and fighters) can easily kill a large stack with minor loses.
Besides, 100 stack is a major investment and should be give a trouble. Otherwise, why bother http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by Makinus:
Where i change the maintenance cost of ships (to decrease them)? What will be the effects in the AI of this Mod?

Thanks<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maintenance efficiency is increased as your game progresses.

You may build a System Maintenance facility this will have a significant reward to your current fleets in that system.

The Engineering Section and really is a crucial component for most ships in AIC. With this section added your ship would have a more efficient maintenance staff and will aid in the ships combat defense with some added Damage Control. This ships component will have a significant effect with Maintenance, as the component is upgraded through out your game.

The above facilities and components are not available to the AI and are to the Human advantage.

Crystalline Restructuring Plant for all crystalline races is also cumulative with your races starting Maintenance Characteristics options.

With above said, you may want to change the maintenance settings that you find in AIC data files with some caution or you will find you may have a negative maintenance environment. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

John

[ August 13, 2003, 16:58: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
I don't think it will change balance.
Satellites are a poor platform for direct fire weapons. Even with sensors 3 and RT 3 (!!) my satellites have a tough time hitting AI' frigates and destroyers. Missiles are better but a normal sized AI fleet (30+ ships and fighters) can easily kill a large stack with minor loses.
Besides, 100 stack is a major investment and should be give a trouble. Otherwise, why bother http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The targeting time and systems for satellites are hampered and as such do make a poor direct fire platform with low level sensors.

There will be 10kt Armour plating for the satellites to complement the existing 5kt coating, on the next release as per your request http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ August 13, 2003, 16:47: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

Two games in row I see AI' Homeworlds rebel. Since HW is so important in this mod and there is no way (at least I don't know) to make HW immune , I suggest to increase the severity of planet rebel effect to High or even Catastrophic.

[JLS]

Oleg, can you send me a copy of this game, I have not had a Home Planet Rebel often.

Unless I have been attacked by Intel from another Player or there are Enemy ships in my System.

In the all the games we have played, we have never seen this to be Problematic.

The AI has no problem and get out of it naturally as do we Humans.

Have some ships in the System and keep your Enemies out, don’t loose to many Colonies or Ships from battle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

You know what needs to be done to keep your citizens happy.

~TIP~ having a few Starliners on routine Population delivery on those remote systems, has the effect of boosting the happiness levels for all the systems traveled thru http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Regarding Random Events. I cannot see how the Random Event Numbers factored in with the System and Planet Happiness Modifiers, Ships, fleets in system, Facilities etc. Can cause you a consistent rebellion problem at home, unless you are really unlucky and draw that event

Are you playing with the Unmodified AIC Intel, Happiness and Events files?

[ August 30, 2003, 18:09: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

Oh, sorry I deleted all my old backup files. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
It was more than a month ago and I cleaned and defragmented my computer since.

But, please, believe me, the order of events is a an ultimate factor that decides the severity of events.

As a test, use the setup I propose in my 2nd post here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In any case, even if I'm wrong (I'm not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif !!!), it does not cost much to use my events.txt file, right ? :0

[JLS]

No, it does not cost anything to use your file. Your file does have all my AIC text programming, you just have it formatted in order of event from low on up.

The AIC file supplied with AIC is fine, and has the tested effect I desired. With a redundant event (tiered) to give the desired random events results for AIC that the author desired.

[JLS]

I will gladly test your AIC reformatted file, as long as I have the same effect as the AIC original file with Random WARP POINT EVENTS and Increased Population events, you know > the stuff I programmed to achieve a desired effect.

AIC has been out for almost a year and no one has indicated a repetative Home world Rebellion flaw. I have certainly not seen this.

Unless I have been attacked by Intel from another Player or there are Enemy ships in my System or worse over my Planet.

The AI has no problem and get out of it naturally as do we Humans.

Have some ships in the System and keep your Enemies out, don’t loose to many Colonies or Ships from battle.

~TIP~ having a few Starliners on routine Population delivery on those remote systems, has the effect of boosting the happiness levels for all the systems traveled thru

[ August 30, 2003, 20:14: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

On separate issues :

I think 20% loss of planet value when colony is glassed is a bit too high. I watched two AI's who were unlucky to start next to each other: Since AI can not properly protect colonies, any colonisation attempt by those poor mates was immediatly quashed untill all planets around got values 0 0 0 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Personaly, I lowered to 2% and feel rather happy about. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
On separate issues :

I think 20% loss of planet value when colony is glassed is a bit too high. I watched two AI's who were unlucky to start next to each other: Since AI can not properly protect colonies, any colonisation attempt by those poor mates was immediatly quashed untill all planets around got values 0 0 0 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Personaly, I lowered to 2% and feel rather happy about. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Planet Value and the AIC AI Economy
===========================

Oleg, please understand. As you may recall, regarding the way the AI perceives and actually is subsidized economically in AIC you changing this to 2% or even Zero has little to NO effect for this AI,

The AI in AIC or even se4 does not recognize Planet Values as you may think. It was already considered that AI is unable to repair a damage planet as a Human player would or even consider the Value of a planet for the correct Colony choice in some circumstances, so I have other (much other) AI programming involved to assist the AI in AI Campaign.

Additionally, this change to 2% will only make it easier for you when you are conquering a planet from the AI, if not a sole inducement to maintain war, if there is little to no Real Planet damage…

However, 2% is unrealistic. If you look at the destruction of Carthage, American Indian lands, Eire and Svealands forested lands, London, Ukraine most of Germany and Japan as a result of, and for mans modern weapons and our tenacity to destroy >you may find that 20% is not nearly high or destructive enough.
When AIC was beta tested I had this to 50% Planet Damage and the numbers still worked but this gave rise for Intel; as the Human Player to become a glairing alternative means of taking a Planet in tact and virtually undisturbed.

Also please consider, we Human Players may repair a planet with Planet Utilizations methods in the game, but this takes time, and that’s what the 20% is all about, WAR is costly … Not only in loss of life and materials but our Planet itself. If World War Three is ever fought, will there still be the third planet orbiting sol.

JLS

-------------
Reference:

Planet Value Percent Loss After Owner Death := 10 (Stock se4)
Planet Value Percent Loss After Owner Death := 20 (AIC thru v3.xx)
Planet Value Percent Loss After Owner Death := 30 (AIC v4 in testing)

[ August 31, 2003, 17:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Hi JLS good to see you back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Is AI Campaign compatible with any other MODs, for example the Ultimate Strategies Mod or any mount or Quadrant mods.

Also can you explain the planet value system a little more in depth.

Thanks

[Grand Lord Vito]

WHEN is AIC v4 going to be released JLS http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

you have been working on it to long, i want to beta test it when you are ready http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
Hi JLS good to see you back http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Is AI Campaign compatible with any other MODs, for example the Ultimate Strategies Mod or any mount or Quadrant mods.

Also can you explain the planet value system a little more in depth.

Thanks<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hello GLV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

NO, AIC is not compatible with any other mod that will overwrite one, any or all AI Campaigns - Ai, DATA, Empires and Pictures Files/Subfolders or Folders. This covers most if not all MODS today.

====

In regards to (PV) this is the textbook answer from Frequently Asked Questions.

Basically, the FAQ will apply for all Human Players that play AIC. With the exception of Cities and Urban Centers Homeworlds inclusive; they afford Commerce (Imperial Trade if you will) to the Human Player and is thereby unaffected by PV to a degree in AIC.

Loosely, this application of Commerce is applied also to the entire economy for the AI on AIC and is thereby NOT effected by poor Planet Values. Directly that is

I will follow-up with how I Interpret the AI perceptions on some PV applications and AI scenarios.

==========

((( FAQ ))) (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009760)

17.3.7.2 Planet Values %
Pay attention to the mineral, organic, and radioactive value % on a planet’s details. When determining where to build a facility, use a planet close to or exceeding 100% for a given resource type. That percentage is part of the formula used in producing your empire’s total resources:

(Extraction Facility value) x (planet’s resource type %) x (empire’s racial %) x (Planet Computer Facility %) x (System Computer Facility %) x (planet’s happiness %) x (population %) x = total mineral resources committed to your empire for that facility.

For example, a Mineral Miner I extracts (700) x Planet mineral 120% (1.2) x empire racial bonus 110% (1.1) x Planet Robotoid factory I 110%(1.1) x System Robotoid factory 110% (1.1) x Jubilant happiness 120% (1.2) x 500 population 110% (1.1) = (x) mineral resources committed to your empire for that facility.

Use planets that have mediocre or low resource values as research or intel centers. The same basic formula applies for total points available for projects.

In the example above, you can see the value of important factors in boosting your economic output.

Note: Don't force an absolute minimum value for building miners. I've built mineral miners on planets with a minerals value of 40 before. It all depends on the game and what you need. If you have plenty of planets with high values, use low value planets for research and such. If not, you may need more resources (Imperator Fyron).

17.3.7.3 Develop Your Planets

The key to economic growth is maximizing your planet development. Special facilities can help, but they take a while to build. Therefore, in a small universe or one-on-one game, I rarely use any advanced facilities, unless I’m really comfortable and secure.

Medium scope game facilities :
Planet Robotoid Factory (Computers). I usually build these Last on a planet. Second to Last, I build a space yard to expedite the build time and facility upgrade time (quite often, I set the yard on emergency build for these.)

System Robotoid Factory (Computers). I usually build these Last on a planet. Second to Last, I build a space yard to expedite the build time and facility upgrade time (quite often, I set the yard on emergency build for these.)
Note: System Robotoid Facilities do not increase the benefits of remote mining. (Imperator Fyron)

Scanners: I don’t generally use them because the bonus is applied to only one resource area, rather than all three. And you cannot use both Robotoids and Scanners at the same location; only one takes effect.

Urban Pacification Centers: Populations will grow happier in this system; Not too expensive, and worth it in the long run. Will nudge your planets to jubilant, and especially help pacify foreign citizens. Subtle and slowly effective.

Large scope game facilities : (see FAQ 4.3)
Resource Converter: Converts between resource types with a 30% (at best) loss of material; comes in real handy when you have an unexpected surplus of one type

Ultra Recycler: Items scrapped in this sector will reclaim 80% of their original resource value (I don’t use them)

Atmosphere converters: Changes the atmosphere of the planet to one that is breathable by its colony over 2 (at best) years… that’s 20 game turns… I’m too impatient. I won’t use them unless the breathers aren’t available

Climate Control Facilities: Improves the conditions of the planet up to 3% each year. I never think to use them.

Value Improvement Plants: Improves the mineral, organic, and rad value of the planet up to 3% each year. Requires patience; but a slow payoff.

AIC as well as some individual MODs have different names and some additional varied facilities.

Thanks to all the FAQ team this is a great article and all should be read when time permits.

Special facilities and economics : (see FAQ 4.3)

have to hit the link to continue http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=009760)

[ September 01, 2003, 23:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
WHEN is AIC v4 going to be released JLS http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

you have been working on it to long, i want to beta test it when you are ready http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oleg and Myself are working out some kinks with the AIC random events file…

Oleg has some great Ideas that may solve THE MAX EVENT SEVERITY Pre Game settings issues with se4 and most MODs in general.

My main concerns are that the Random Events Percentages remain intact and that this new reformatted file is actually going to solve THE MAX EVENT SEVERITY slider issue.

Other then that >AIC Version 4.00 is almost ready to go…

[ September 01, 2003, 18:55: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

I suggest.
Event Percent Chance Low := 20
Event Percent Chance Medium := 40
Event Percent Chance High := 60

with corrected events file. Now the relative percentages (between low, med. etc) follows the intuition meaning, one would like to have more of them to see AWESOME cataclisms http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[oleg]

I think the storage of Crystall and Temporal cultural centters should be increased. It is VERY difficult to utilize all those extra radioactives in early game, before inventing advanced cryst/temp weapons.

I found Organic race to have a major advantage - 30+ starliners eat a LOT of organics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

There is simply no such sink for radioactives earlier on.

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif


I found Organic race to have a major advantage - 30+ starliners eat a LOT of organics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

There is simply no such sink for radioactives earlier on.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I truly agree here... This is a definite advantage for the Organics and it only enforces that the true nature of the Organic race is to resupply Organics to it Colonies far away and to maintain a rapid growth; that far excels any other race in the Galaxy.

Do you really feel it is to great of an advantage for the Organic Races and what would you recommend to counter this; other then restructuring the base concept of Star Liner costs.


I think the storage of Crystall and Temporal cultural centters should be increased. It is VERY difficult to utilize all those extra radioactives in early game, before inventing advanced cryst/temp weapons.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, in a Finite game this is a fine opportunity to build those old fashioned Storage facilities early, they are cheap and very quick to build even with the youngest of Colonies.

However in a standard game the surplus, is just superfluities and not to worry.

Additionally in all games this Surplus of any one or more resource will really come in handy for exchange at your Trade Center or with other Empires if so lucky to have a friendly trade partner; for resources needed (early food for example, for those extra Star Liners and Colonizers) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 01, 2003, 22:30: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
I suggest.
Event Percent Chance Low := 20
Event Percent Chance Medium := 40
Event Percent Chance High := 60

with corrected events file. Now the relative percentages (between low, med. etc) follows the intuition meaning, one would like to have more of them to see AWESOME cataclisms http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Although I am still not convinced, with out more testing on the reformatted Events file…

Have you tested your reformated file and does the Pre New Game settings react accordinly.
How about desired Event occurrences; are the Percentages unchanged?

Please, tell us more

===

L20/M40/H60
Absolutely these figures sound great, and thanks they are in the next new test start…

I tested the Rebellion suggestion you made and yes, that also will be moved up in Classification. As you suggested…

Thanks again Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 01, 2003, 22:33: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by JLS:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by oleg:
[qb]I suggest.

I tested the Rebellion suggestion you made and yes, that also will be moved up in Classification. As you suggested…

Thanks again Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">JLS

Possibly, we will be taking a step backwards by reducing the chance of rebellions. I like the fact that when a new game is started with 8 or so computer opponents that after a few hundred turns we now have 10 to 12 or so total Players then within a few hundred more turns it could be as many as 20 total players. I also enjoy the diplomacy involved with the newly independent nations, rushing to get into agreements before another greedy major AI Player does its bidding.

I also have never had a Home World rebel.

Are you sure want to make drastic changes to the Events for AIC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

[ September 02, 2003, 18:04: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by QBrigid:

Possibly, we will be taking a step backwards by reducing the chance of rebellions. I like the fact that when a new game is started with 8 or so computer opponents that after a few hundred turns we now have 10 to 12 or so total Players then within a few hundred more turns it could be as many as 20 total players. I also enjoy the diplomacy involved with the newly independent nations, rushing to get into agreements before another greedy major AI Player does its bidding.

I also have never had a Home World rebel.

Are you sure want to make drastic changes to the Events for AIC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pause-Pause

You raise a very valid point QB

The settings Oleg suggested are negligible. I am about to start a new game with a revised - actually a revised revision of the Last revised Version of the Events File and I will take a close look at your objections.

Nevertheless, there was fewer Independent Races spawned in the test.
Furthermore, GLV to answer your E-mail here, the Warp Point Event occurrences is hard to put your finger on thru out the Galaxy. However in my Systems there were none, as was in your test. Nevertheless, I believe there was a few else where in the Quadrant.

[QBrigid]

I truly agree here... This is a definite advantage for the Organics and it only enforces that the true nature of the Organic race is to resupply Organics to it Colonies far away and to maintain a rapid growth; that far excels any other race in the Galaxy.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The extra benefits from having an Organic Race do seem enticing as the primary choice. But then again to the defense of Psychic Races, this race has a lot to offer with the added psychic powers they possess with the early additional Psychic Intel they now have available to use on unsuspecting opponents in AIC. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I have been playing the Dual Race setup lately, with the 1000-point bonus you supplied for this purpose and it adds so much to my character Race. True if I am not mistaken I net out 500 points less in Characteristic choices if my only choice is one race and not take the bonus but it is well worth it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

The Dual Race chosen by the way is Psychic and Organics otherwise I will go the Psychic path any day over others and I am getting pretty good setting up my designs to. Let me tell you it is tough to beat those Parasite missiles in a fight, that plus a mind bLaster, wow you got to love it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[JLS]

Oleg

I feel I was in error with this event originally.

Type := Planet - Facility Damage
Severity := ???
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Fire destroys factory
Message 1 := NewsFlash..... breaking story on [%Planetname]. A fire burned through downtown today causing major damage. A number of buildings will have to be closed.
Picture := FacilityDestroyed
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0
Start Message Title 1 :=
Start Message 1 :=

Considering the possibility that a City, large urban Center or even a HW Culture Center was to be hit by this event it may be to costly to allow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

What do you think?

Should it be High or Catastrophic?

[ September 02, 2003, 21:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by QBrigid:

I have been playing the Dual Race setup lately, with the 1000-point bonus you supplied for this purpose and it adds so much to my character Race. True if I am not mistaken I net out 500 points less in Characteristic choices if my only choice is one race and not take the bonus but it is well worth it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed QB

I prefer the Dual Race of > Crystalline and Organic in standard games.

Crystalline and Religious in any Finite Game.

In a No-Warp game >just Crystalline with extra characteristics points in Science with NO bonus for the AI or myself.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 02, 2003, 21:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:
The settings Oleg suggested are negligible. I am about to start a new game with a revised - actually a revised revision of the Last revised Version of the Events File and I will take a close look at your objections.

Nevertheless, there was fewer Independent Races spawned in the test.
Furthermore, GLV to answer your E-mail here, the Warp Point Event occurrences is hard to put your finger on thru out the Galaxy. However in my Systems there were none, as was in your test. Nevertheless, I believe there was a few else where in the Quadrant.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The file used was Olegs that I downloaded and told you about Last week. With that file in a new game I had no warp points open or close anywhere and no independent races just as QBrigid mentioned after 333 turns just a ton of Plauges from his file. Olegs file is the same size as the original AIC file 36k but if you notice there are wide gaps in the data that was not in your original file that worked great already.

----------------------------------------
Partial example of OLEGS corrected FILE:

ype (wide GAP) := Planet - Created
Severity (wide GAP) := High
Effect Amount := 1
Message To (wide GAP) := System
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Device creates planet
Message 1 := The function of the alien device is now known. A new planet as been created in [%SystemName].
Picture := PlanetCreated
Time till Completion := 6
Num Start Messages := 1
Start Message Title 1 := Alien Genesis Device
Start Message 1 := While doing mineral surveys of an asteroid in sector [%SectorName] of the [%SystemName] an alien device was found. During the attempt to remove it from it's resting-place, the device became active killing everyone on the team. It's final purpose is still unknown.

Type := Planet - Population Change
Severity := Catastrophic
Effect Amount := 30
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Refugees
Message 1 := [%ActualAmount] million unexpected refugees have arrived on [%PlanetName].
Picture := Refugees
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0

Type := Warp Point - Closed
Severity := Catastrophic
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := System
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 :=
Message 1 :=
Picture := WPClosed
Time Till Completion := 5
Num Start Messages := 1
Start Message Title 1 := Warp Point Fluctuation Detected
Start Message 1 := [%WarpPointName] is fluctuating from gravitational shear forces. Our scientists conclude it will collapse within 0.5 years.

Type (wide GAP) := Warp Point - Opened
Severity (wide GAP) := Catastrophic
Effect Amount := 1
Message To (wide GAP) := System
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 :=
Message 1 (wide GAP) :=
Picture := WPOpened
Time till Completion := 5
Num Start Messages := 1
Start Message Title 1 := Fluctuations Detected
Start Message 1 := Our scientists have detected fluctuations in [%SystemName], They suspect that a new warp point is forming. We should send a ship to study this phenomenon.

Type (wide GAP) := Star - Created
Severity (wide GAP) := Catastrophic
Effect Amount := 1
Message To (wide GAP) := System
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := A star is born
Message 1 := A new star has developed in [%SystemName]. This phenomenon will baffle scientists for years.
Picture := StarCreated
Time till Completion := 10
Num Start Messages := 1
Start Message Title 1 := Unknown Occurrence
Start Message 1 := Strange Gravitational fields are developing in [%SystemName]. Scientists throughout the galaxy are puzzled.

----------------------------------------

Would all these currupted gaps in his file cause it to default to the stock se4 Events file if it is NOT properly formatted and not even see Olegs file?

I am with you QB I also have never had a Home World rebel or blow up from a Random Event with the original AIC file, I say if its not broke don't fix it JLS

[ September 03, 2003, 13:54: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

Originally posted by JLS:
I feel I was in error with this event originally.

Type := Planet - Facility

Considering the possibility that a City, large urban Center or even a HW Culture Center was to be hit by this event it may be to costly to allow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

What do you think?

Should it be High or Catastrophic?<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">-------------------------------------
JLS also read what PsychoTechFreak had to say about Random Events on the Home Worlds…
-------------------------------------

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Longterm observations about 1.5 (realtime) years ago:

- galactic peace within the first 2 years, means no events from 2400.0 until 2401.9, never.
- the master planet is NEVER affected by high and catastrophic events, just by low and medium events
Definition "master planet": The planet that is selected at game start, first cursor, means in a one homeplanet game this would be the homeplanet. In a 10 planets game, the master planet would be immune from high/catastrophic events, the other 9 could be affected, this goes along also with system events, like star explosions.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
With multiple HW starts yes, but there was always one planet (master) never affected by high/catastrophic events. I checked this with a modded event.txt, just the 4 severities with a text popup for the severity which has taken place. Some thousand turns later, almost everything but the master HP has blown up.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Since Oleg, me, you, QBrigid and PsychoTechFreak (high & cat) have NEVER had an EVENT at all on our Home World change to High but I would not change much else.

I am late for work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif got to go

[ September 03, 2003, 14:10: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[Grand Lord Vito]

I think the storage of Crystall and Temporal cultural centters should be increased. It is VERY difficult to utilize all those extra radioactives in early game, before inventing advanced cryst/temp weapons.


Agreed, in a Finite game this is a fine opportunity to build those old fashioned Storage facilities early, they are cheap and very quick to build even with the youngest of Colonies.

However in a standard game the surplus, is just superfluities and not to worry.

Additionally in all games this Surplus of any one or more resource will really come in handy for exchange at your Trade Center or with other Empires if so lucky to have a friendly trade partner; for resources needed
(early food for example, for those extra Star Liners and Colonizers) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I play Temporal like Oleg but usually play with Finite resources and the RADS do add up and trading does help (A LOT) in all resources not just organics

JLS how about you lower the Stroage Facility costs even more, relly what can they be-just a building with a fork truck http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I notice you guys play Dual Races - hmm need to check this out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 03, 2003, 14:22: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:

Would all these currupted gaps in his file cause it to default to the stock se4 Events file if it is NOT properly formatted and not even see Olegs file?

I am with you QB I also have never had a Home World rebel or blow up from a Random Event with the original AIC file, I say if its not broke don't fix it JLS<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I noticed Olegs typo myself before testing Olegs theories yesterday and thought nothing of it and just corrected them.

You are right GLV, se4 does not signal any Events file for some format mistakes when loaded.

---------------

For example:
If you type and add this single line to the EVENTS “ will this format mistake break the events file” in the document it does not register the error.

If you double line space or even add several blank lines between the cells in any Events file it does not register an error.

As with Olegs corrected file with the WIDE GAPS this also does not register an error.

It is possible Oleg and the others that used Olegs released corrected file did not experience any Catastrophic events because se4 may of stop reading the rest of the file after the format error in Olegs corrected file as it does with other se4 files.

Actually, it is possible that every EVENT after the first 11 events; all of which are low, may NEVER be read so sure in a game with Olegs AIC corrected file you may never have a Catastrophic event not to mention you may never have a Medium or High either.

===========
REFERENCE:

Actual - Olegs released file, has a format error in the 12th Cell:

================================================== =====================================
*BEGIN*
================================================== =====================================

Type := Planet - Value Change (11th cell)
Severity := Low
Effect Amount := -20
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Cosmic Storm
Message 1 := A cosmic storm has damaged the value of planet [%PlanetName].
Picture := PlanetValueWorse
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0

Type ((( VERY WIDE GAP ))) := Ship - Experience Change (12th cell)
Severity ((( VERY WIDE GAP ))) := Low
Effect Amount := 5
Message To ((( VERY WIDE GAP ))) := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Crew wins fire fight
Message 1 ((( VERY WIDE GAP ))) := While in the [%SystemName] region, the crew of [%VehicleName] ran into Space Raiders. Winning the fire fight, The ship's battle experience has improved.
Picture := CombatWin
Time till Completion := 1
Num Start Messages := 0
Start Message Title 1 :=
Start Message 1 :=

- - -

Example of an abutrary input mistake that also did not register an error:

================================================== =====================================
*BEGIN*
================================================== =====================================

Type := Ship - Damage
Severity := Low
Effect Amount := 20
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Ion Storm
Message 1 := An ion storm has done [%ActualAmount] kT damage to the ship [%VehicleName] in the [%SystemName] system.
Picture := ShipDamaged
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0

will this format mistake break the events file

Type := Ship - Lose Movement
Severity := Low
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Engine Accident
Message 1 := An accident aboard [%VehicleName] has caused it to lose [%ActualAmount] of its movement.
Picture := ShipDamaged
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0
Olegs recent gift of the (correct) Events file for AIC, although surly as interesting as it may have been wrapped, and the drama in which the package was delivered; nonetheless does not devalue the gift or the thoughts behind it.

- - -

Example of extra line spaces in-between the cells registering an error:

================================================== =====================================
*BEGIN*
================================================== =====================================

Type := Ship - Damage
Severity := Low
Effect Amount := 20
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Ion Storm
Message 1 := An ion storm has done [%ActualAmount] kT damage to the ship [%VehicleName] in the [%SystemName] system.
Picture := ShipDamaged
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0

Type := Ship - Lose Movement
Severity := Low
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Engine Accident
Message 1 := An accident aboard [%VehicleName] has caused it to lose [%ActualAmount] of its movement.
Picture := ShipDamaged
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0
Olegs recent gift of the (correct) Events file for AIC, although surly as interesting as it may have been wrapped, and the drama in which the package was delivered; nonetheless does not devalue the gift or the thoughts behind it.

~
~
~

Type := Planet - Facility Damage
Severity := Low
Effect Amount := 1
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Fire destroys factory
Message 1 := NewsFlash..... breaking story on [%Planetname]. A fire burned through downtown today causing major damage. A number of buildings will have to be closed.
Picture := FacilityDestroyed
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0
Start Message Title 1 :=
Start Message 1 :=

Type := Ship - Lose Supply
Severity := Low
Effect Amount := 1000
Message To := Owner
Num Messages := 1
Message Title 1 := Fuel Leak
Message 1 := A fuel leak aboard [%VehicleName] has caused it to lose [%ActualAmount] of its supplies.
Picture := ShipDamaged
Time Till Completion := 0
Num Start Messages := 0

[ September 03, 2003, 16:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

[oleg]

What gaps ???

I don't see any gaps in the file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Hmm, it may be because different text editors react differently to TABS delimeter. How does SEIV treats TABS ???

[JLS]

Originally posted by oleg:
What gaps ???

I don't see any gaps in the file http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/confused.gif

Hmm, it may be because different text editors react differently to TABS delimeter. How does SEIV treats TABS ???<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">try to load and veiw with NOTE PAD http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[JLS]

Bottom line folks…

I agree with Oleg’s theory and do plan to order the file as he suggested.

I believe the Random events will be as you are used to. If not enhanced with other Events to now be thrown in the mix and this is the solitary result of Olegs work, for if you wish not to have catastrophic events you may now shut them off correctly.

[JLS]

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
Longterm observations about 1.5 (realtime) years ago:

- galactic peace within the first 2 years, means no events from 2400.0 until 2401.9, never.
- the master planet is NEVER affected by high and catastrophic events, just by low and medium events
Definition "master planet": The planet that is selected at game start, first cursor, means in a one homeplanet game this would be the homeplanet. In a 10 planets game, the master planet would be immune from high/catastrophic events, the other 9 could be affected, this goes along also with system events, like star explosions.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
With multiple HW starts yes, but there was always one planet (master) never affected by high/catastrophic events. I checked this with a modded event.txt, just the 4 severities with a text popup for the severity which has taken place. Some thousand turns later, almost everything but the master HP has blown up.<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oleg, what are your thoughts on this, I believe PTF is on the mark here, I do not recall ever having an event; even Plague for example let alone a High or catastrophic event on a Home World with default one Planet se4 gold start.

This information is needed and is important, in other words should we worry about the Home World,for its Population and Facilities when and if we re-categorize the levels of any Events.

=============================

Only other Event reference available:

Version 1.66: 9. Fixed - Abilities "Change Bad Event Chance - System" and "Change Bad Intelligence
Chance - System" were not always working.

Version 1.60: 11. Fixed - Emotionless races cannot be induced to riot through intelligence or
natural events.

Version 1.43: 5. Fixed - If an event caused a planet to explode, then sometimes an error would
be generated.

Version 1.25: 1. Fixed - The meteor strike event was happening every turn.

Version 1.20: 1. Fixed - A colony with no population could still suffer from
a firestorm event.
Version 1.17: 8. Fixed - The Trade disrupted intelligence event should not occur if there
is no real trade between two empires.

[ September 03, 2003, 19:06: Message edited by: JLS ]

[JLS]

Originally posted by Grand Lord Vito:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
I think the storage of Crystall and Temporal cultural centters should be increased. It is VERY difficult to utilize all those extra radioactives in early game, before inventing advanced cryst/temp weapons.


Agreed, in a Finite game this is a fine opportunity to build those old fashioned Storage facilities early, they are cheap and very quick to build even with the youngest of Colonies.

However in a standard game the surplus, is just superfluities and not to worry.

Additionally in all games this Surplus of any one or more resource will really come in handy for exchange at your Trade Center or with other Empires if so lucky to have a friendly trade partner; for resources needed
(early food for example, for those extra Star Liners and Colonizers) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I play Temporal like Oleg but usually play with Finite resources and the RADS do add up and trading does help (A LOT) in all resources not just organics

JLS how about you lower the Stroage Facility costs even more, relly what can they be-just a building with a fork truck http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I notice you guys play Dual Races - hmm need to check this out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, just a low cost automated warehouse the Storage facilities shall be.

They will be lowered to the lowest possible costs. Basically almost free at low levels, this way they will be quickly built early and then bulldozed after a few cities are built when playing Finite games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Thanks GLV, and Oleg, good idea http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[oleg]

I never had a patience to play Non-connected game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
What is a reasonable game/race set up to have a warp point opener ASAP ? I still want to have normal tech. cost, 1 medium HW and 2K race though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[Fyron]

NO, AIC is not compatible with any other mod that will overwrite one, any or all AI Campaigns - Ai, DATA, Empires and Pictures Files/Subfolders or Folders. This covers most if not all MODS today.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. You can certainly easily use Ultimate Strategies Mod in AIC, as it is just Formations and DefaultStrategies files (that are important). FQM Standard and Deluxe can also be added in with not too much work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[JLS]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> NO, AIC is not compatible with any other mod that will overwrite one, any or all AI Campaigns - Ai, DATA, Empires and Pictures Files/Subfolders or Folders. This covers most if not all MODS today.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I disagree. You can certainly easily use Ultimate Strategies Mod in AIC, as it is just Formations and DefaultStrategies files (that are important). FQM Standard and Deluxe can also be added in with not too much work. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, YOUR Formations file is used in AIC if I am not mistaken and it is great. And you are right, as long as the AI has its Formation supplied within http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Regarding DefaultStrategies files the AI in AIC require it own logic for Fighter Attack, Optimal Firing Range and Maximum Weapons Range to a lesser degree others. This is mainly for the Tactical Fighters Priorities and Satellites being shot at by AI ships that pack primarily only missiles and other miscellaneous AI reasons in AIC…

FQM Standard and Deluxe I am licking my chops for this to be ADDED on AIC with your Images, your anomalies, this is outstanding work and I would like to put a few PURE FQM Quadrants in for the Players choose, from the Quadrant menu when starting a new game asap, I receive at least 2 to 3 E-mails a month to get this in with QBrigid being your biggest fan. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 03, 2003, 21:19: Message edited by: JLS ]

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by JLS:
FQM Standard and Deluxe I am licking my chops for this to be ADDED on AIC with your Images, your anomalies, this is outstanding work and I would like to put a few PURE FQM Quadrants in for the Players choose, from the Quadrant menu when starting a new game asap, I receive at least 2 to 3 E-mails a month to get this in with QBrigid being your biggest fan. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif [/QB]<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now that this is out of the bag when do plan to add FQM, Sully http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[QBrigid]

Originally posted by oleg:
I never had a patience to play Non-connected game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
What is a reasonable game/race set up to have a warp point opener ASAP ? I still want to have normal tech. cost, 1 medium HW and 2K race though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You may be soon hooked Oleg. Not-connected is all I play - the no warp point option.

From what I understand you like the Temporal Race and they are real brainy to begin with, they also will build that warp opener much faster then my Psychics so you are in great shape. I put the extra points into Science and a little in Maintenance but I think PsycoTechFreak said a long time ago that Science, Rock and get to steller 2 as fast as possable is the Key in a No-Warp game.

Before I forget, always use the Engineering Section on your Warp-Openers it will save you a bunch. Always build your Trade Center early http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I like Rich Clusters on a Large map with no warp everything else is default. Or any Map on the top of the list up to where it suggest you to stop.

The Eee by far is the Best no warp AI Player, not to worry they are pretty friendly and I have no problem sharing space with them or other friendly Races. I love following the Eees lead they are even good enough to create all my Planets from the Asteroids that do not have a Outpost in orbit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

AI bonus of none is best; they get pretty frisky at a low bonus in a no warp game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I am not a good of a player as you so most of the time I start with some MP bonus points http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

I will only play that game if I like my start, it must have at least one breathable planet and a few other rock types http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I hope eveything was covered, does anyone else have some suggestion.

Have fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 03, 2003, 22:37: Message edited by: QBrigid ]