Oceania - Let's fix it. Mod discussion

[HoneyBadger]

Burnsaber, have you thought about adding selkies to Atlantis?

They could be shapeshifters that would actually be stronger (or atleast more useful) on land, since they'd turn into human soldiers, but in the water they'd be either porpoises (not great in combat--capital only?), or human sized otters (maybe an upgraded amphibious summonable holy version requiring Astral/Water and costing astral "clams", that would transform in combat like Mictlan's jaguar warriors).

They might have limited stealth (maybe 5 maximum?), which would go a long way towards enhancing Atlantis, since I don't think any of the UW Nations have stealthy troops, especially ones that can operate on land. This could be balanced by only allowing them to heal while underwater, and giving them Kappa-type fatigue that would keep them close to the shore.

[llamabeast]

Selkies would fit nicely into the half-animal-half-man theme of Oceania I guess.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Burnsaber

Hmm.. Rain & Mist sound like good ideas. Mist especially is helpful against archers, will help somewhat on land. Mind if I steal this?

Second shape of what units? mermen? I'm a bit confused.

Not a good idea. At all. Knights of the Deep are pretty ridicilious as they are now, no need to buff Oceania underwater.

3-4 Knights of the Deep + Bishop Fish can obliterate any UW independents, with just a N4 bless to counter poison damage.

A: Steal away - give me a credit in the readme. if you send me a pm with your email address I'll send you what I can dig up too.

B. The second shape I was referring to was their land form.
This, by itself, is enough to make oceania powerful on land.

You do need to change the Oceania text description to introduce the theme of water and mists.

C. I *think* I gave bishop fish a land form as well. I know I made them younger (or increased max age).

The Friendly currents spell was on land. Worked great.

D. I also increased the seduction of the Siren - as I think that had been overlooked in the version of CBM. Making a Siren summoning spell might be thematic (national).

E. Finally I was looking at a spell that would increase dominion by 1 candle. Giving them a unique flavor. I almost got it to work. I had a unit with disease and 1 hp, that spread dominion. A little kludgy.

However the problem was it showed up with a commander, and for some reason the commander wouldn't show up diseased.

But I really liked the idea of adding glamour to oceania - makes it seem very 13th warriorish meets the ocean - pictures of viking warriors disappearing into the mist.

[Burnsaber]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Burnsaber, have you thought about adding selkies to Atlantis?

I thought about giving them to Oceania. But at least according to the wikipedia entry, they seemed like Siren-esque seducers. I could take matters into my own hands, but I don't know how to draw seals! Or otters for that matters. I'm not an artist, just a editers. I need a good base to work with to manage something usable. (Hence the Tawhuali, Lizards & sharks is easy)

I haven't really taken a look at Atlantis, but they seem intresting enough with their thuggable big mage guys and good magic access+. They have some of that Lovecraft mythology to back them up.

It's the Oceanias combination of thematic "blandness" & gameplay weakness, which makes them so problematic. The exact point when I decided to do something about this was when I tested the EA Oceania for the Faerun game.

I managed to get some land provinces early (with painful amounts of blood, tears and sweat.. from me) and build an early fort to a nice looking mountain province. It was my plan to mass produce Wave Warriors there. Once the fort was finished and I opened the recruitment screen..

I couldn't do anything but whimper in fear.

You only get Turtle infantry & Turtle Chief in Oceania land castles!

It was bizarre. Like something out of freaking twilight zone. I felt like I got *****-slapped by the game. *HOW DARE YOU TRY TO GET TO LAND WITH OCEANIA, BE SMITTEN*.

It also dawned on me that I have to play this thing in MP. I didn't even bother to try to swap nations, I simply knew that I had shortest straw.

I (unsuprisingly) got into a early blitz with R'lyeh. I was secretly hoping to lose so that I would be freed from playing it. But the R'lyeh player staled thrice, giving me a *major* advantage. I was also looking forward to writing some thematic AAR's, but my mind is drawing blanks with Oceania, I simply cannot crasp the damned thing.

Eh.. looks I derailed a bit there. Sorry folks. But about atlantis, I think that it doesn't need any more stuff. If it is weak, you can just manage the unit prices & stats.

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

But I really liked the idea of adding glamour to oceania - makes it seem very 13th warriorish meets the ocean - pictures of viking warriors disappearing into the mist.

I'd like to read the descriptions you've made. Could you please send the stuff to Burnsaber(at)hotmail.com

Your changes seem intresting, but do not do anything with the 'land castle' problem. In my opinion, this is the most crippling thing about Oceania. There's no reason to even bother with forts, your stuck to indy-level troops anyway.

But the mist theme is nice. I'll probably give them a national spell that gives both mist & rain (saves spell slots, you see). It'll be W2A1 likely.

I think that with addition of Dema alliance and intoduction of mist themes, we could manage to make Oceania playable.

[Calchet]

I've played around with boosting Oceania as well, though in a rather different direction - I collected a set of sea-related ground-recruitables from the mythology of northern Europe and the British isles, but have yet to get around to implementing them or making graphics:

Units:
- Kelpies, a poor amphibian (freshwater-dependent) horse-creature with a bit of stealth, a little awe and a once/battle, MR resists easily, melee-range charm attack.
- Finmen, strange merfolk-derivate poor amphibians that stalk the lands, again somewhat stealthy, wielding simple weapons.
- (Perhaps) Finmen riding kelpies (Oh, the originality!)

Commanders:
- Finman Sorcerers, capable finmen casters that complement your magic path selection with a little bit of water, air, astral and/or death.
- Each Uisge (or Nix), male multi-shape sneakers, poor amphibians, with a beautiful male playing a standard-effect fiddle in battle, a horrid fear-inspiring man-horse creature hybrid form, and an awe-inspiring kelpie-like horse form.

Summon:
- Nuckelavee. Something/death, vampire-like inability to enter water provinces. Looks something like a flayed centaur. Fear that makes a Prince of Death look like a cuddly bunny, and the combat ability to back it up, more or less.

As I'm unlikely to ever get around to working on these, feel free to adopt any that tickle your fancy.

[Tyrant]

You hit the nail on the head here, Oceania is not weak, it's dull. I like the directions this thread is taking and definitely think that some sort of summable commander(s) is the way to go. I have some vague memory of Polynesian vampire myths, but can't call up the name. The headhunter/cannibal angle sounds fun to me as well, and i also have a vague recollection of reading folklore from the island of Yap in college that involved invisible sorcerers. Perhaps you could do something with that. And of course there's always Land Sharks!

Looking forward to see what you come up with here.

[HoneyBadger]

Burnsaber: I'll draw you an otter and a porpoise by this weekend. Not a problem.

I very much like the idea of Oceania being powerful physically in the ocean, and then powerful magically on land (in that they could have additional ritual spells for land, like Hurricane).
'Mist' is another good idea.

Another idea that strikes me as to how to differentiate Oceania would be to base it somewhat on the end of Clash of the Titans, where Proteus releases the Kraken. So maybe give Oceania a powerful amphibious endgame summon that can only be cast on land?

To give you a "for instance", the Cyclops in the Odyssey was supposed to be the son of Poseidon, so maybe something there?

[HoneyBadger]

Here's the porpoise:



attack sprite


I'm not sure about the sizing, so if you decide to use this, and if you think it needs resizing, just let me know and I'll fix it.

I hope you'll be able to access these. I tried putting them into a .zip folder, but it didn't work, somehow. So if you need this in a different format, you might need to help me get it set up for you. I don't know why it's being difficult...so I might need a little instruction, if it becomes necessary.

[HoneyBadger]

Here's the otter:



attack sprite

I'm thinking maybe otters could be statwise based on wolves? Possibly with claws attack instead of bite, but with less overall damage, and maybe 1 or 2 extra hitpoints.

Otters might possibly also have a slight (25%) cold resistance, because of their fur.

[HoneyBadger]

Here's a seal:



attack sprite