Beginning Super Combatants

[DarkAvenger211]

Hey guys. Just asking for a few tips here. What chassis and magic combos make for a good SC for early expansion.

I know later on magic items will dictate most of the power from an SC, but I'm trying to build a good SC that will allow for quick expansion and possibly be able to do so unsupported.

Any ideas?

[PriestyMan]

i assume you mean a pretender god? then it depends on your nation. gorgon, bull, Prince of Death, dagon, kraken, cyclops sorta, several others all work to one degree or another

[Doo]

Here's my answer:

You want HP. HP is affected by Dominion in a province with higher base HP pretenders gaining comparatively more HP's, and higher base Dominion leads to a quicker rate of Dominion expansion, thus a high Dominion pretender helps. Also Dominion 9 and 10 pretenders gain the Awe effect which helps.

Magic paths have two effect, the first is that each extra level usually gives some bonus to the mage, and secondly they allow spells to be cast. The best for passive effects are Earth for +1 to Protection per level and Water for +1 to Defense per level. When using this strategy it helps to max either stat, so start with something with a high base Protection or Defense and make it sky-high with magic bonuses. Nature is great if you have Regeneration as more Nature magic gives more regeneration.

When thinking of spells to cast, basically any spell of worth needs SOME research and so your awake pretender won't get any initial benefit until research is done. However with research in Alt you get with Earth: Stoneskin (Alt-2) or Ironskin (Alt-3), with Air: Mistform (Alt-3), Mirror Image (Alt-2) and Air Shield (actually at Alt-0, possibly niche use), with Astral: Personal Luck (Alt-1) and Body Ethereal (Alt-3), with Water: Quicken Self (Alt-2, note discussion on Fatigue below) and with Nature: Barkskin (Alt-1). Of other note is Ench-2 with Personal Regeneration for Nature mages.

Special traits also help, such as the Wyrm's regeneration, Prince of Deaths fear and so on.

The idea, especially with indies, is to stack layers of effects such that each chance to do lasting damage has a low probability. For example a surrounded SC is melee attacked. Firstly it has Awe so a moral roll is required to even try to hit it, but also the SC has Fear so its harder to beat the Awe check due to Fear lowering moral. Then the Defense is high (each attack in a round lowers the effective Defense for the next attack by two, thus Defense is good but not great) so the SC is harder to hit. The hit lands but on a Mirror Image, no damage done. Or it hits the SC but the SC has a Protection of 20 so the damage done is low and the SC regenerates +20 HP per round. Lastly its Fear effect causes the indies to rout and the battle to be done.

This is a simple example, imagine adding in Personal Luck (50% of the time ANY damage occurs it is ignored as if it didn't occur), Body Ethereal (75% of melee attacks by non-magical weapons pass through the body causing no damage even though a hit occurred) and Mistform (complicated but basically all damage is reduced to 1 HP, Mistform is cancelled by big hits).

So think about it in those terms and judge for yourself. You want a SC that will survive without gaining Afflictions, unless it has the Recuperation trait. This is why I didn't list Fire magic levels as useful compared with Earth or Water, sure you hit more often but you may also be getting hit and I think with an awake pretender surviving without Afflictions is of most importance, getting Mute or Feeblemind is probably the worst for the average magic using SC for example. Lastly, don't ignore Encumbrance and thus Fatigue.

The reason why I won't name good SC pretenders is because you will pick one and it will get stomped and you will think I'm stupid, when in reality even with a good spread sometimes crazy things happen.

[Jarkko]

I'll name a few example, using CBM. Using an unequpped SC pretender you have to remember to *never* attack anything with unbreakable units (undead and other mindless (like Dark Vines), berserkers (aka Barbarians)) or Lizards (at best that Lizardman shaman curses your pretender, at worst he first curses and then tangles your pretender while the lizards chop your pretender to pieces)

Wyrm with Dom9 or Dom10, no magic paths. Gives you fear combined with awe, and a regenerating high HP beast.

Great White or Black Bull with E4N4. A berserking trampling recuperating beast, who becomes an even harder beast after you research Personal Regeneration and any of the -skins (Barkskin, Stoneskin, Ironskin, Invulnerability).

Gorgon is insanely overpriced (in vanilla she is very affordable for Sauromatia for an easy E9N4 bless, which means she has to be ridiculously overpriced in CBM; the sad thing is that for the nations she would thematically fit for never ever get her for competetive play) in CBM, but in singleplay a E4N4A2 Dom9 will work wonders. Script Cast Airshield, Attack Rear and watch her go medieval. If you can on first turn craft a shield (aka access to nature or earth gems to craft a shield on turn 1), then do that to make her practically impossible to hurt by indies).

Red and Blue Dragons with high dom score (9 or 10) are excellent (again that excellent awe+fear combo), especially after they can buff themselves with Fireshield or Breath of Winter.

A Phoenix makes a nice early SC pretender. Just send her alone to provinces (in your dominion, of course) scripted with Attack rear. If she doesn't succeed to take it on first try with Phoenix Pyres (in CBM it autocasts Phoenix Pyre at the beginning of every battle), then next round there will be much fewer defenders; also very good way to soften up those indy provinces with Knights and Longbowmen. If your nation doesn't have much Air or Fire, then give her A4F4 and the bird can later on be an excellent army buffer(with stuff like Arrowfend, Flaming arrows, Fog Warriors or Warriors of Muspelheim) and to craft air and fire boosters (and Staffs of Storm, of course).

[DarkAvenger211]

Alright thanks.

And Doo I've already been stomped trying a few different things before posting this

[Foodstamp]

Gorgon is insanely overpriced (in vanilla she is very affordable for Sauromatia for an easy E9N4 bless, which means she has to be ridiculously overpriced in CBM; the sad thing is that for the nations she would thematically fit for never ever get her for competetive play) in CBM, but in singleplay a E4N4A2 Dom9 will work wonders. Script Cast Airshield, Attack Rear and watch her go medieval. If you can on first turn craft a shield (aka access to nature or earth gems to craft a shield on turn 1), then do that to make her practically impossible to hurt by indies).

Like Jarkko says, the Gorgon is tough to beat.

Another really good one is the Risen Oracle for Agartha. In single player you can get away with a 4 earth/ 4 nature/ 4 death/ 1 astral and he is a beast right out of the box on turn 1. After a little research, you have an assortment of great SC buffs, the ability to forge very good SC gear, he has a boatload of HP, and he is immortal. WEEE!

[Corinthian]

The best SC pretender in vanilla is probably the Prince of Death. The best (AKA most bang for your bucks), SC pretender in CBM, is probably the Lord of the Gate. If you give him some cheap armor first that is.

[tratorix]

What is the best build for a prince of death? i've tried it a few times in single player and mine barely manage to kill militia. Does he need equipment or can he expand regularly and i just suck?

[bbz]

I assume you must give him awe so that you can use his fear into the moral check.Also a bit of death magic would help since every death lvl increases fear even more.

[thejeff]

As bbz said: Dom 9 or 10 for awe. Extra death magic boosts his fear. Maybe Earth or Air if you need them for diversity. Earth for protection and later buffs, Air for Air Shield.

He doesn't kill people very well. Even militia. He just routes them quickly. He is vulnerable, since he has relatively low hp and protection. Pick your targets carefully. His flight will help with this. Keep him in dominion.
I would forge him minimal gear as soon as possible. Even a cheap shield and weapon will help.

But the fear is awesome. And he has full slots, which helps keep him useful late in the game.