Devil Review

[Gandalf Parker]

Boron said:
I would love to see your strat once in a mp game because it is really great but i am curious about the time by when you achieve your special strats

Oh I know my stuff is very inefficient. I play almost entirely solo and on larger maps than Illwinter has for download.

I like the Lord of the Hunt (he sneaks and tosses LOTS of Maenads). And have had fun with Carrion Dragon using the CW theme.

In MP games I dont play to win so I tend to stay out of the discussions about "winning strategies". I have a number of choices. I play to be an indispensable ally providing tons of info on other players, harassing them, jumping up as a surprise to ruin their well laid plans, things like that. Or I play the breaking-dam game. Long buildup waiting for someone to decide to attack me then washing over them like a flood keeping us both from winning.

In one game I actually held out as a major pain for a long time after losing my provinces and later even my god. I kept my units sneaking around the map taking undefended provinces, jacking the taxes to 200%, building defense, and sneaking on. I forced the player to completely rework his strategy of large armies, SC god and units, and no money on PD. He had to take time to revamp just to get rid of me.

Think of Data in that episode where he is forced to challenge a guy in StratGema. He changes his strategy from trying to win, to remaining in the game instead.

If you cant beath them, then join them.
If you cant beat or join them, then try to be a surprise.

Some play to win or lose, others to stay in the game.
Are we talking about games? Or life in general?
EXACTLY!

[Boron]

I play now again SP too .
I had the idea of playing a good scale pretender like an oracle to make it a bit harder and to try nations like Serpent Cult .

I played Cradle of Zen with 16 players ( Ermor left out ) , all Ais to impossible .

You may laugh now but i lost my games because the Ai's numbers overwhelmed me . I always had the luck that either Vanheim or Marignon or Jotunheim went to war with me soon .
The Ai hordes even defeated sometimes my Mini-Sc banelords .

Has the Ai gotten improved a bit in 2.14 or is it only because i play at rather crazy settings ?


Do you play against impossible Ai's too on crowded maps ?

Even my new try with madcastling + VQ is interesting cause i don't get everywhere good enough SCs or Armies to hold of the various 200-500 men AI armies

[Gandalf Parker]

Boron said:
Do you play against impossible Ai's too on crowded maps ?

Hmmm if I did I think I would take the tactic of strong defense and taking advantage of circumstances such as them banging their two large armies together.

Even my new try with madcastling + VQ is interesting cause i don't get everywhere good enough SCs or Armies to hold of the various 200-500 men AI armies

You ever play any of my maps from www.dom2minions.com?

[Boron]

The cool thing is that with impossible Ais the starving is not such a big problem because they have so good scales or so good bless effects that their troops are still frigthening .

Another "problem" is that my Thugs like banelords tend to get too much afflictions and without trading it is not so easy to forge all good stuff early enough .


I have downloaded a few of your maps Gandalf but i haven't played them often because i found faerun then and it was my taste for large maps . Now i prefer 200 province maps because conquering whole faerun takes too long i think .
Hope you don't hate me after this confession

[alexti]

Boron said:
I play now again SP too .
I had the idea of playing a good scale pretender like an oracle to make it a bit harder and to try nations like Serpent Cult .

I played Cradle of Zen with 16 players ( Ermor left out ) , all Ais to impossible .

You may laugh now but i lost my games because the Ai's numbers overwhelmed me . I always had the luck that either Vanheim or Marignon or Jotunheim went to war with me soon .
The Ai hordes even defeated sometimes my Mini-Sc banelords .

Has the Ai gotten improved a bit in 2.14 or is it only because i play at rather crazy settings ?


Do you play against impossible Ai's too on crowded maps ?

Even my new try with madcastling + VQ is interesting cause i don't get everywhere good enough SCs or Armies to hold of the various 200-500 men AI armies

I think you can win vs impossible AI reliably, but you need to play different strategies than you'd use vs humans in MP. For sure, AI will try to swarm you early on. It's not that bad on choke-pointed maps like Cradle of Zen, but on open wrap-around map, like Inland the beginning is really tough. I usually go for low-attrition strategy, basically some plan that would allow me to beat AI hordes with minimal losses quite soon. Important part is to plan carefully, so that you can use one AI (or indies) as a shield vs another.

[Boron]

alexti said:
I think you can win vs impossible AI reliably, but you need to play different strategies than you'd use vs humans in MP. For sure, AI will try to swarm you early on. It's not that bad on choke-pointed maps like Cradle of Zen, but on open wrap-around map, like Inland the beginning is really tough. I usually go for low-attrition strategy, basically some plan that would allow me to beat AI hordes with minimal losses quite soon. Important part is to plan carefully, so that you can use one AI (or indies) as a shield vs another.

It really depends a lot on which nation you play .
If you play ermor / pan cw then even impossible Ai is not so good .
I haven't played it but i think Ctis Miasma will work very well against Ai too .
If you play Ryleh or Atlantis and hide in the sea and just clamhoard then you can easy win too of course .

But if you try to play a "normal" nation or even a weaker one like Tien Chi then the ai gives you a hard time .

It is always a Helms Klamm feeling but unfortunately the end is often not as in the film positive for me hehe

[Endoperez]

I thought T'ien C'hi would be much more powerful in SP than it is in MP, because the AI never uses (or atleast used, been some time) Mind Duel... CMs are not *bad* units, they just have a blatant and deadly weakness most players can abuse.

[Stormbinder]

Gandalf Parker said:

True. But there is also my favorite "step up".
A Garnet Amazon (red) province with a lab, 0 taxes, and no Province Defense. Send a lvl 5 air mage (or lvl 3 air mage with a Bag of Wind and that Winged Helm). Build amazon mages and set them to hunting blood slaves.

Have all the mages set to hellbind, hellbind, hellbind, attack. Have the air mage cast Wind Ride every turn against some province in your enemys territory. Its like a birthday present each turn. You want to rush to that province to see what you got and what items it had on it. The real prize is ending up having 2 or 3 prophets all working in your name.

That's nice setup Gandelf and I agree, it is certanly fun. But I think it can only work once in MP if you are playing against good opponent, since the next turn you will likely to get a Ghost Riders/other magical-summon/teleport attack on your "Christmas present" province. If it has just bunch of amazons set on "hellbind" and air 5 mage, as your described, it'll not stop this attack, and your mages will be killed/routed. If your opponent would also block all retreat routes than all your mages will be lost.

[Cainehill]

Managed to Wind Ride / Charm about a half dozen commanders in an ongoing game - I also had enough other troops to slow down or kill tough opponents, and could probably have held off ghost riders, possibly even two.

[Gandalf Parker]

Stormbinder said:
That's nice setup Gandelf and I agree, it is certanly fun. But I think it can only work once in MP if you are playing against good opponent, since the next turn you will likely to get a Ghost Riders/other magical-summon/teleport attack on your "Christmas present" province. If it has just bunch of amazons set on "hellbind" and air 5 mage, as your described, it'll not stop this attack, and your mages will be killed/routed. If your opponent would also block all retreat routes than all your mages will be lost.

I admit that I dont remember being at the other end of windride. I suppose it does say where the commander went.

Having troops or defence there tended to kill the sucker before I could convert him so I knew I was taking chances with no troops and no defence. I usually had my windmage set for a couple of actions and then retreat or some sort of safety transport. It was the only piece of importance. Taking back the province is no big deal.

It might not be an ultimate strategy but its a fun one to keep in the carddeck just in case you get the chance to use it.