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Old October 17th, 2005, 06:22 PM
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Default Air Support at Ia Drang

AIR LIFT

Company A, 229th Assault Helicopter Battalion, 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile).
Captain Ed W. Freeman, flight leader and second in command of a 16 unarmed-helicopter lift unit (UH-1Ds),

Maj. Bruce Crandall, CO of Company A, 229th Combat Aviation Battalion "Snake 6,"
Maj. John Radu, "Tiger 6," who commanded the gun company, "D"/229th,
Maj. Dick Rogers, "Preacher 6," who was the CO of "B"/229th - all old comrades from the 521st Engineer Company (Topo Aviation).
Maj. (later Col.) Willard Bennett, "Cobra 6," was the CO of "C"/229th, another lift company.

228th ASHB was the 1st Cavalry Division's Chinook Battalion. The Bn had three companies of CH-47 aircraft. Each company had 16 "Hooks." The Battalion Headquarters (HHC) had a UH-1D/H "Slick" and one OH-6A "Loach."

B co 114 troops, A co 40 troops, Ground Commanders command group 6 for a total of 160 troops in the 1st lift.

3rd Brigade Aviation Section, 228th Assault Support Helicopter Battalion and 229 Assault Helicopter Battalion flight crews who flew support missions into LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Falcon and LZ Columbus 14-18 November.

CLOSE SUPPORT

Here is a nice MATH problem:

1. Number of missions x {[Ax (UH-1B)ARA x 48] + [Bx (UH-1B)Gunships x 14]}= Total Ammo used
2. A (number of ARA) = X x B (number of Gunships)
3. B (number of Gunships = Z x C (Number of UH-1D)
4. A+B (number of UH-1B / C (Number of UH-1D = (Helicopters_Hit_by_Enemy) UH-1B/UH-1D x V (danger variable)

With a little of luck and the following DATA we may be able to determine the number of A, B, C (C=16?)

Total Missions Fired (in support of operations)
3,354 105mm Howitzer
184 ARA

Total Rounds Fired
33,108 by 105 mm
7,356 by 2.75in Rockets

Helicopters Hit by Enemy/Shot down
UH-1B 15/2
UH-1D 21/2

Helicopter Total Sorties/Hours
UH-1B 11,522/7,322.9
UH-1D 33,522/11,904.2

Total Passengers Airlifted
88,221

Airmobile/Assault Helicopter Company

258 personnel, 23 UH-1D [door-mounted MG], 8 UH-1C [6 with 2.75" rockets and MG, 2 with 40mm GL]

Aerial Weapons Company,"D", with twelve (4x UH-1 Gunships?) UH-1B helicopters armed with XM-16 kits (fourteen 2.75" rockets and four 7.62 mm machine guns.
On Gunships: P68, 2nd paragraph:
"...and Crandalls 4 Gunships guarding our flanks."

Aerial Rocket Battalion

39 helicopters with 2.75" rockets
It consisted of three firing batteries, each equipped with twelve Huey helicopters armed with 2.75-inch aerial rockets.

C Battery, 2-20 Field Artillery in actions at LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany and LZ Columbus 14-18 November.

ARA: C bat, 2nd battalion, 20th arty. Commanded by Maj Roger Bartholomew. 6x ARA, possibly another ARA, being flown by the battery commander.
On ARA: P122, 1st Paragraph:
".....and with six helicopter's plus the battery commanders we where going through ammo in a hurry.

Preparatory phase
The aerial artillery came on the heels of the tube artillery fire and worked over the area for 30 seconds expending half their load, then went into a orbit nearby to be on call. The lift battalion gunships took up the fire and were immediately ahead of the troop transport Hueys.

Close Air Support by 7th air force's 1st and 602nd Air Commando Squadrons in support of ground operations in Ia Drang

LtC John J. Knight, 10 May 1965;
The 1st ACS/SOS operated a variety of aircraft during the SEA years. They started with the A-26, and at various times operated T-28's, U-10's, C-47's and RD-26's. The Skyraider arrived in May 1964 and became the major weapons system.

740 CAS sorties were flown, mainly in support of LZ X Ray and Albany.
Air Force tactical air provided continuous support with a fighter bomber on a target run on an average of once every fifteen minutes;
- A-4 Skyhawks
- A-37 Dragonfly
- F-4 Phantoms
- A-1 Skyraider
- AC-47 "Dragonship"
- AC-119 "Stinger"
- AC-130 "Spectre"
- F-100 Super Sabre
- B-52 (Modified for conventional bombs)

.S. Air Force A-1E pilots of the 1st and 602nd Air Commando Squadrons who flew close air support missions at LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Mary, LZ Columbus or the 4 November action of 2-8th Cav Northwest of LZ Cavalair.

On 15 November the moment of the "broken arrow" the air support was 29 air mission available:
We had aircraft stacked at
1,000 foot intervals from 7,000 feet to 35,000 feet, each waiting to receive a target and deliver
their ordnance.

B-52 missions

Five B-52 missions with 96 sorties were flown.
The most devastating support was provided by B-52 bombers which struck without warning six kilometers west of X-RAY. Though the bombers had been employed initially in Vietnam some six months earlier, this was their first use in direct support of U.S. troops on a tactical operation. For the next five days, the big bombers systematically bombed large areas of the Chu Pong Massif.

Quantity of Air and Arty support in the final stage of the battle

Then, after his soldiers marked their units’ positions, he ordered strikes by over two dozen aircraft and called on the fires of four batteries of artillery.

General notes

In his after action report, Colonel Moore noted that aerial rocket artillery had been extremely effective. His commanders had confidence in bringing such fires extremely close to their own positions. He also had noted that tube artillery, aerial rocket artillery, and tactical air can be used at the same time without seriously downgrading the effectiveness of the fire or endangering the aircraft. The aerial rocket artillery and Tactical Air flew perpendicular to the artillery gun-target line in those cases when they were making a simultaneous attack on the same target areas. This technique was possible by close teamwork between the forward air controller and the artillery liaison officer.

The 227th (AHB), along with the 228th (ASHB), 229th (AHB) and the 11th General
Support Aviation Company operated under the command of the 11th Aviation Group. Initially the Assault Helicopter Battalions (AHB) had three companies,"A", "B" and "C", of twenty UH-1D helicopters plus one Aerial Weapons Company,"D", with twelve UH-1B helicopters armed with XM-16 kits (fourteen 2.75" rockets and four 7.62 mm machine guns. "D" Company flew support for the other three companies, as well as special missions, such as "Nighthawk". Later in the war, the -1D helicopters were replaced with model -1Hs and the weapons company was upgraded to AH-1G Huey Cobras which carried a mixed armament of XM-157 or XM-159 rockets, XM-18 gun pods and XM-28 minigun and 40 mm in the chin turret. The effective range was about 100 miles, roughly the same as the division "front". In most part, the 227th supported the 3rd Brigade and the 229th supported the 1st Brigade and both battalions were assigned the responsibility of supporting the 2nd Brigade.

Throughout such operations as the Pleiku Campaign, Nathan Hale, Paul Revere,Thayer and Byrd, the 227th proved that air mobility was a vital factor in the success of the 1st Cavalry Division in Vietnam. In the fall of 1965, the
battalion participated in the Pleiku Campaign, airlifting troops into the rugged province near Cambodia, often in the face of heavy enemy resistance.
During the campaign, the 227th airlifted the equivalent of 65 infantry companies, flying a total of 6,066 sorties. With the rest of the division, the battalion received a Presidential Unit Citation for this campaign. Throughout
1965 and 1966, the battalion provided integral support and transportation for the division, developing new techniques to meet the challenging battle and weather conditions in the Republic of Vietnam.

105mm Towed Howitzer Battalion

HQ and Service Battery and four batteries (each with 6 105mm howitzers)
These originally had three batteries 641 personnel

C Battery, 2-17th Field Artillery at LZ Columbus 15-17 November.
A, B and C Batteries and elements of Headquarters Battery, 1-21st Field Artillery at LZ Falcon, LZ Columbus 14-18 November.

Before the attack began Batteries A and C, 1st Battalion, 21st Artillery, were deployed at LZ FALCON.
These Batteries fired over 4,000 rounds of high-explosive ammunition during the night of 14/11 in close support of X-RAY.

To provide additional artillery support, Landing Zone COLUMBUS was established 4 1/2 kilometers to the northeast of X-RAY. This landing zone was midway between X-RAY and FALCON, where Batteries A and C of the 1st Battalion, 21st Artillery, were located. Battery B of the 1st Battalion, 21st Artillery, and Battery C of the 2d Battalion, 17th Artillery, were now moved into COLUMBUS.

The enemy broke contact and filtered back into the mountains after suffering tremendous losses. He was pursued with heavy firepower: cannon artillery continually pounded the area;

The division fired 40,464 artillery rounds and rockets during the campaign.

8" artillery
also participated during the 3 hours battle of "broken arrow" 15/11

Elements of 8th Engineer Battalion that supported Infantry, Cavalry or Artillery units at LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Columbus and LZ Falcon 14-18 Nov, or 2-8 Cavalry during the action 2-1/2 km NW of LZ Cavalair 4 November, or 1-9 Cavalry during the ambush vicinity of LZ Mary 3-4 November
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Old October 17th, 2005, 10:20 PM
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Default Re: Air Support at Ia Drang

Does anyone has precise numbers (from a source) of UH-1B Gunships and UH-1B ARA for the LZ X-ray battle?
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Old October 17th, 2005, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Air Support at Ia Drang

Yup, I posted them in the first thread.

6 ARA, plus a possible extra 1.
4 gunships.
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Old October 18th, 2005, 05:28 AM
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Default Re: Air Support at Ia Drang

Were these mentioned in Moore's book?

BTW, since one company has 8 UH-1C [6 with 2.75" rockets and MG, 2 with 40mm GL] then do you think that only 4 is correct?

Also since Aerial Rocket Battalion has 39 helicopters with 2.75" rockets then C bat, 2nd battalion, 20th arty should have 13 UH-1C ARA. What do you think?
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Old October 19th, 2005, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: Air Support at Ia Drang

From Moore's book.

On Gunships: P68, 2nd paragraph:
"...and Crandalls 4 Gunships guarding our flanks."

On ARA: P122, 1st Paragraph:
".....and with six helicopter's plus the battery comanders we where going through ammo in a hurry."

On other helicopter's: the chinnoks didn't fly into X-ray until after the battle. and the leader of the 229th was, I belive, Major Bruce Crandall.
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Old October 19th, 2005, 04:58 AM
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Default Re: Air Support at Ia Drang

I just received a reply from a veteran (Ross) and I also found another source in the Internet:

Source:
Our two door gunners would be stationed on
either side of the hell-hole cover-in the pockets-firing M-60 machine guns attached to pylons. During our first two months, though, the machine guns would simply be
strung from the top of the open doorways on elastic bungee cords. With the crew chief and gunner in the pockets, there was enough room for eight or ten troopers on the cargo deck.

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Quote:
++1. At the LZ X-ray battle did the UH-1Ds (slick) had any mount weapons (because I ve found a source that tells that they were unarmed*** The new Huey "D" models used by the Snakes did not yet have mounts for the door guns)?

if they didnt have door mounts, they had m-60's on bungie cords, straps or some type of cord.

They had doorgunners with auto weapons.crew cheif used the same.

++2. During the LZ X-ray battle what was the quantity of UH-1B Gunships and UH-1B ARA that helped in close support

question 2 will have to be ans by Crandall http://www.xav8er.com/ , scrandall@attbi.com

he was suppose to lay on the gunships amount, when they made their attack plans.
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Old October 19th, 2005, 05:40 AM
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Default QUALIFYING UNITS AND SPECIFIC BATTLE LOCATIONS: (

(Note: LZ Columbus and LZ Cavalair are the same location)

QUALIFYING UNITS AND SPECIFIC BATTLE LOCATIONS: (Includes)

1-7th Cavalry, LZ X-Ray, 14-16 November.

2-7th Cavalry (-), LZ X-Ray 16-17 November, LZ Albany 17-19 November.

3rd Platoon, C Company, 2-7th Cavalry, LZ X-Ray 15-16 November.

1-5th Cavalry(-), LZ Columbus 18 November (Note: LZ Columbus and LZ Cavalair are the same location)

A Company, 1-5th Cavalry, LZ Columbus 18 Nov, LZ X-Ray 16-17 November, LZ Albany 17-18 November.

B Company, 1-5th Cavalry, LZ Columbus 18 November, LZ Albany 17-18 November.

2-5th Cavalry, LZ X-Ray 15-17 November.

Elements of 1-7th Cavalry, 2-7th Cavalry, 1-5th Cavalry and 2-5th Cavalry, LZ Falcon 14-18 November.

A Company, 1-8th Cavalry, LZ Mary 3-4 November, (1-9th Cavalry ambush).

Elements of A, C, D Companies, Mortar Section and Battalion Command Group of 2-8th Cavalry, vicinity of ZA965055 2-1/2 Km Northwest of LZ Cavalair 4 November.

Elements of 1-9th Cavalry in ambush vicinity LZ Mary, 3-4 November.

Elements of 1-9th Cavalry which supported at LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Mary, LZ Columbus, LZ Falcon or in the 4 November action of 2-8th Cavalry Northwest of LZ Cavalair.

Artillery Forward Observers and Fire Support Coordinators, Army Aviation Pathfinder Teams, Battalion Surgeons, Platoon Aidmen, Litter Bearers, Battalion Aid Station Personnel, Chaplains and Chaplains Assistants who were on the ground during the 14-18 November fighting at LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Columbus, LZ Falcon, the 3-4 November fighting at LZ Mary or in the 4 November action of 2-8th Cav 2-1/2 km NW of LZ Cavalair.

C Battery, 2-17th Field Artillery at LZ Columbus 15-17 November.

A Battery, 2-19th Field Artillery in 2-8th Cavalry action 2-1/2 km NW of LZ Cavalair 4 November.

C Battery, 2-20 Field Artillery in actions at LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany and LZ Columbus 14-18 November.

Elements of A Battery, 2-20 Field Artillery in the 2-8 Cavalry action 2-1/2 km NW of Cavalair 4 November and 1-9 Cavalry ambush at LZ Mary 3-4 November.

A, B and C Batteries and elements of Headquarters Battery, 1-21st Field Artillery at LZ Falcon, LZ Columbus 14-18 November.

3rd Brigade Aviation Section, 228th Assault Support Helicopter Battalion and 229 Assault Helicopter Battalion flight crews who flew support missions into LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Falcon and LZ Columbus 14-18 November.

229th Assault Helicopter Battalion flight crews who flew support missions in the 2-8 Cavalry action 2-1/2 km NW of LZ Cavalair 4 November.

2-8 Cavalry Command Helicopter flight crew and passengers who landed in the battle area of 2-8 Cavalry in the action 2-1/2 km NW of LZ Cavalair 4 November.

MEDEVAC flight crews who evacuated wounded and dead during the actual fighting from LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Columbus, LZ Falcon 14-18 November or LZ Mary 3-4 November or the 2-8 Cavalry action 2-1/2 km NW of LZ Cavalair 4 November.

Elements of 8th Engineer Battalion that supported Infantry, Cavalry or Artillery units at LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Columbus and LZ Falcon 14-18 Nov, or 2-8 Cavalry during the action 2-1/2 km NW of LZ Cavalair 4 November, or 1-9 Cavalry during the ambush vicinity of LZ Mary 3-4 November.

Army Photo and Movie Teams and War Correspondents who were on the ground during the actual fighting at LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Columbus, LZ Falcon 14-18 November, LZ Mary 3-4 November or the 2-8 Cavalry action 2-1/2 km NW of LZ Cavalair 4 November.

Higher Commanders and Staff personnel of the 1st Cavalry Division, 3rd Brigade, Division Artillery, 11th Aviation Group and other higher Headquarters who in the performance of their duties had occasion to be on the ground during the actual fighting at LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Columbus, LZ Falcon 14-18 November or LZ Mary 3-4 November, or the 2-8 Cavalry action 2-1/2 km NW of LZ Cavalair 4 November.

U.S. Air Force A-1E pilots of the 1st and 602nd Air Commando Squadrons who flew close air support missions at LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Mary, LZ Columbus or the 4 November action of 2-8th Cav Northwest of LZ Cavalair.

U.S. Air Force Forward Air Controller Teams who participated in the actions at LZ X-Ray, LZ Albany, LZ Mary, LZ Columbus or the 4 November action of 2-8th Cavalry 2-1/2 km NW of LZ Columbus.
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Old October 19th, 2005, 02:06 PM
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Default There is a war between Veterans *DELETED*

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Old October 19th, 2005, 02:14 PM
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Old October 19th, 2005, 02:17 PM
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Default Time table of events concerning UH-1Ds

Pleiku Province, II Corps, South Vietnam

Location, LZ X-Ray

Description:
0?H 2 A/229th Avn UH-1D's and 2 UH-1B's make a recon flight from Plei Me to Duc Co and identify 3 possible LZs.

0?H 5 CH-47A's start moving 6 105mm guns to LZ Falcon.

0?H 1/9th Cav Scouts conduct a VR of 2 LZs and the surrounding area.

0852H LZ X-Ray is selected.

By 0930 all 16 A/229th Avn UH-1D's arrive at Plei Me for the CA.

C/2/20th ARA provided support all that day.

1048H the first lift of 8 UH-1Ds landed in X-Ray, the second wave follwed immediately.

1120H the second lift went in.

The 1/7th C&C ship landed at 1140H to extract the NVA POW. <<

1210H the third lift went in and at 1215H contact was made to begin the Battle of LZ X-Ray.

After refueling, the fourth lift went in at 1332H.

At 1338H the second wave started receiving ground fire.

After this lift was complete, a medevac ship brought in the Bn Surgeon's team which reported they already had 20 to 25 WIA's and some KIA's.

At 1400 the USAF Spad crashed and ARA fire was directed on the NVA moving around the aircraft.

At 1430 the fifth lift went in and the LZ suddenly turned red-hot.

The Hueys dropped off troops and extracted KIAs and WIAs.
Because the first wave received such heavy fire and took so many hits, the 1/7th cancelled the second wave.
Two Hueys were dispatched to Camp Holloway to collect ammo.
Two Hueys loaded all the remaining 1/7th ammo at Plei Me and returned to X-Ray.
They extracted 13 WIAs and KIAs on this trip.
The two Hueys from Holloway returned and went into X-Ray, one was shot down in X-Ray and the crew extracted.
A/229th continued to fly in ammo and extract casualties.
Instead of flying the WIAs all the way to Pleiku, they used LZ Falcon as a transfer point to the medevac ships.
After three two ship missions, all of A/229th set up a shuttle flying in ammo and water, taking out casualties.

At 1520H they started bringing in the last of the 1/7th Cav two ships at a time.

A second Huey went down in X-Ray.

Comments: MAJ Crandall, Bruce; A/229th Avn CO; ; CPT Mills, Jon; A/229th Avn pilot; ;
CPT Rickard, ; 1/9th Cav scout leader; ; CWO Lombardo, Riccardo J.; A/229th Avn AC; ;
1LT Bean, Roger K.; A/229th Avn pilot; ; CPT Freeman, Ed; A/229th Avn flight leader; ; CPT
Mesch, Gene; A/229th Avn AC; ; CWO Jekel, Alex S.; A/229th Avn AC; ; MAJ
Bartholomew, Roger J.; C/2/20th ARA CO; ; CPT Washburn, Richard B.; C/2/20th ARA
pilot; ; CPT Winkel, Paul P.; A/229th Avn flight leader; ; CWO Harper, Dallas H.; A/229th
Avn AC; ; CWO Faba, Ken; A/229th Avn AC; ; CWO Komich, Leland C.; A/229th Avn pilot;
; CWO Schramm, Walter; A/229th Avn pilot; ; CWO Estes, Donald C; A/229th Avn AC;

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