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Old July 21st, 2008, 06:40 AM

Renojustin Renojustin is offline
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Sauromatia is one of the most utterly versatile nations in the game, not excelling at anything other than their capital-only archers, which at the end of the day are only archers, and can be countered by quite a few things. Their main strength is their excellent combination abililty and moderate advantages in nearly every aspect of the game. Their main weakness is that since these are not individually overpowering, they are not the strongest at any one thing, which can definitely be considered a flaw and is exploitable.

My credentials:

I have played Sauromatia twice, in the Ascendant and Peccary games, 15 and 8 players respectively, and imo I would have handily won Ascendant had the server not gone down at turn 45. It was my first game, a noob game, but I really dominated it, even with some what seemed to be well-skilled players - in part to a good starting position, in part to a trustworthy co-non-belligerent I met in the game, and in part to Sauromatia's strengths. I was fighting 5 and 6 nations at a time by the time Gandalf's server died.

I am leading going into turn 41 (and now 56) in Peccary in provinces, income, gem income, forts, research, and dominion, but by a lesser margin, because this was after getting attacked by 3 nations from turns 15 to 26... three nations that did not have any other enemies to worry about during that whole time except me, myself, and Gazebo the Gorgon. Update: I won this game by turn 60.

Always first, ANDROPHAG ARCHERS:

The Androphag Archers are a fantastic unit for expansion and really hit their stride in early game defense and expansion. You can even make them a main strategy and recruit 40+ per turn for a long time, foregoing a Sloth scale just for them. They can also stop most of what other nations can throw at you in the dangerous early game, which means you don't have to have an awake pretender, something I will get into later. The usefulness of this strategy can be hampered by an unlucky random starting location with few resources.

Still, even with how nice they are, I usually don't find myself hiring many beyond turn 25 or so even with Order 3 and Sloth 3. Mostly this is because I spend a lot to improve my infrastructure and mage corps, but also because Oriopatias are strong units, and are sacred, saving you a lot of upkeep. You will always find a use for them, and they are very durable, especially if you have a good bless, whereas the archers can be easily countered by giants, flyers, poison-immunes, undead, enemy archers, or regenerating troops of any kind (sigh). Use your head as to which of these units you might want to use at any time, because you must bear in mind that they do not work well together at all. You really don't want to be raining poison arrows into the backs of your expensive sacreds.

Amazons: Amazons are not a powerful unit by any means, and I find little use for them except as meat shields, but they have a good Attack with a spear (lending a good Repel capability) worthy Morale, reliable survivability, and generally Get The Job Done. So if you have spare gold and are facing troop shortages, by all means hire a few at your non-capital forts.

Cavalry: Most of your cavalry is just plain inferior to Androphags and Amazons... your foot archers are better at attacking and your infantry is better at defending on a gold for gold basis, and most of the time on a 1:1 basis. Unless you really NEED to deal Lance damage (once :/), and the need may definitely arise but doesn't seem to all that reliably, I would counsel to just stay away from these.

Archers: Composite bowmen can be either a fair choice for your additional fort recruitment queues, or a poor one, depending on your strategy. You can easily go with just a tiny screen of Amazons up front and a huge mass of archers in the rear with the proper scripting. When you add in mages, this becomes more apparent because your skellyspam is second only to C'tis. The only disadvantage to this is that Sauromatia is in dire need of independent mages for Air, Earth, and Fire, and it's a fine balancing act to keep your military forces competitive while rounding out your magic diversity.

Hydras I do not use at all, except in the most niche of roles or as tricks, being highly overpriced as well as slow and terribly unsynergistic with your excellent Androphags.

THE GORGON:

You MUST have a Gorgon pretender in my opinion, for an absolutely essential Earth bless, for Earth variety, and for pure goddamn terror factor. I use her sleeping, because the design points are highly valuable, because you just can't afford to lose her early with Sauromatia's very weak priests, and because you are not vulnerable in early game. In the interim you can start ramping up to Construction-4 which has all the items that you'll need to make her practically invincible until well into the late game.

The highest Earth bless you can manage is, pick your adjective - vital, essential, necessary - for your high-encumbrance mage commanders, and also adds nicely to their survivability and the strength of your Oriopatias.

You are also going to want Nature 4, to keep your middling mage thugs out of affliction danger. Nature 4 is also necessary for Nature globals like Gift of Health and Mother Oak.

A couple of points of Air rounds her out very nicely... a path that Sauromatia lacks completely, barring Delgnat the Sorceress hero (W2 A3 D4) and gives her access to the highly effective Mistform, as well as the devastating spells Cloud Trapeze and Rain of Stones. Resist Lightning is nothing to sneeze at either, with her high Protection, covering her main elemental vulnerability. Use Air Shield when you have the slightest doubt.

Use her aggressively, but use her wisely, because she's likely going to be your main deterrent as well as a very versatile and powerful aggressor. It is necessary to remember that she is awfully fragile in hostile dominion, which you will often be operating in.

Her gear should be an assortment of Construction 4 items. Pendant of Luck and Amulet of Antimagic are a mainstay of the SC profession and should never leave her possession. Hydra Armor saves her from having to cast Personal Regeneration, but use Rainbow Armor over Hydra if you can get hold of it; the MR will save her against Astral nations. Best of all is the wholly underused Silver Hauberk. The Gorgon has very low HPs for an SC, especially in enemy dominion, and will be shot down by Seeking Arrows whenever you leave her vulnerable. The Silver Hauberk covers this terrible weakness, and forces your opponents to not only engage her in battle, but to use high end, non-elemental anti-SC spells. Boots of the Messenger is a wonderful piece of cheap gear to help her get her buffing in without crippling or at least disadvantageous Fatigue. A Vine Shield will save her life, and give her time to work against tougher opponents with her...

Snake Bladder Stick! Yes, this always-overlooked piece of crap will turn your Gorgon into a veritable titan of terror. Imagine the looks of complete non-horror on your opponents' faces as they scan this ghettofabulous accessory. Look deeper though, and you will find that it's extremely synergistic with Fear, has a very large AOE for maximum damage, is the easiest thing in the world for you to craft, is thematic as anything, and is just plain ubergeek cool. A Horror Helment rounds out the head slot and your color scheme with a little electric purple. It also gives her a very respectable +10 Fear, which is just absolutely perfect for use with the Snake Bladder Stick. That's Horror-level Fear, baby, and rightly so.

At 50 design points, it pretty much goes without saying that she is bargain-basement dirt cheap. If you are fighting multiple nations at once, and you will likely have to after everyone reads this guide - ha! - you will live or die by your Gorgon.

COMMANDERS:

I've found that one weakness of Sauromatia is that contrary to popular opinion, their commanders actually make quite poor thugs until well into midgame and closer to late. The reason for this is that they are mounted. High Casting Encumbrance + no feet slot = high Fatigue, even with a good Earth bless, which you will have. Their Casting Encumbrance is 10. 10!! TEN!!11one!!!

Some commander errata:
-Assassins have a very hard time against you.
-Your MR is sturdy.
-HPs are low to middling.
-High Defense with mediocre Protection.
-Extremely high Casting Encumbrance.
-Excellent buff paths with Nature and Water.
-All potentially poison-immune.
-Sabbath-capable.
-No foot slots!

Warrior Sorceresses: They are not quite as powerful as they might first appear because of their immese Casting Encumbrance, not allowing them to buff without prohibitive Fatigue, but they are still gorgeous units. Also it's a lot of fun to say Sorceresses. Every one of your Death random WSes will be going into research, and every one of your Blood-random WSes will be going into Blood Hunting.

The Nature-random and Water-random Warrior Sorceresses will be your ubiquitous thugs; tough, hard to hit, and highly resistant to elemental damage. They can all cast Resist Poison, and should always do so when used in conjunction with Androphag Archers. This also opens up the Snake Bladder Stick for use with your rank-and-file. Any enemy army that is not poison IMMUNE is in for a horrifying, emasculating fight. Water randoms can also bust out Foul Vapors with the help of a Thistle Mace, which is the weakest of the damaging battlefield enchantments, but is easy to research and highly useful when used in conjunction with skellyspam.

N2 Warrior Sorceresses are best for casting, and W1 are very dangerous foes in melee.

Witch Kings: Use these bad boys for demoralizing forum stories as they perform all kinds of naughtiness and depraved acts on your defeated foe, and also for picking up chicks.

But really, they are more or less pure skellyspammers until just before late game when you are facing other Thugs and SCs, and have the gear and magic to turn them into soul-sucking monstrosities through a combination of equipment, Sabbaths, and Independent mage Communions.

Their early to midgame tactic is simple: vomit out as many skeletons as you can with them until they start to complain that hey, they're people too. When your opponents manage to put together large forces against you, send in a Shadow Blaster or two with a Spell Focus and Eye of the Void. Make sure to cast Eagle Eyes first, as your Precision will be 5 at that point... kind of scary-bad with a spell as indiscriminate and deadly as Shadow Blast.

The D3s HIGHLY benefit from a Skull Staff, allowing them to cast Drain Life, Cloud of Death, and Darkness among others, and further cutting down the fatigue cost of undead spam.

Guard the B2 randoms with your everlasting eternal soul, because they are the key to your devastating ritual Blood magic. One must be empowered to B3 to start ramping up the rest. B5 is a good target, for Ritual of the Five Gates and Infernal Disease.

Enaries: should be recruited for about the first four to six turns in your capital depending on your Luck scales, and again only when you have need of artillery close to the front lines. Being slow and vulnerable, they are best used as site searchers at first, afterwards switching to remote site searchers (they can all cast Death and Astral finders) and item forgers.

They are not really all that useful beyond this until well into lategame without significant boostering, and you should strongly consider hiring nothing but Warrior Sorceresses from all your forts when possible, cutting down on Upkeep costs. Those are better at research on a gold for gold basis when used in conjunction with Magic scales or Skull Mentors, at least one of which you MUST use and should probably do both regardless.

For your Communions, you are going to want a very specific unit: Map Move 2 Independent mages with 1 Astral AND another buff path. The Enaries are just. Too. Slow. This means that you should make finding Amazon Sorceresses or Tribal Priests a priority. Blood allows you some leeway with Sabbaths, and you can rock out to Ozzy while you script your army and have a nice chuckle to yourself.

DIPLOMACY:

Ok, I lied. I said that Sauromatia isn't the best at any one thing. Well, the truth is that your early expansion is going to be A-Number-One, top notch with the archers, even with Sloth 3... and that causes people to gang up on you early. So it is not necessary to take your Gorgon awake, and that may even be a detriment in the long run.

You are not a Mictlan, or Neifelheim, or Helheim, or even Abysia or Vanheim, and people will correctly not see you as a threat early on, unless you have an explosive early expansion. Use this to make a friend... or to skelly your way to the front door of your nearest neighbor.

PROVINCE DEFENSE:

You have a very powerful province defense. Every one of the units you get up to 20 PD has a composite bow. And after 20, you get LANCES. Your 1-20 PD horsebowmen in front have 15 defense and will stymie a wide range of melee attackers, while the rest lay down the composite law. You should buy a very good amount of Province Defense wherever applicable. It's also very prudent to do with the Misfortune-2 scale that you'll be taking... Sauromatia PD utterly annihilates Barbarians.

SCALES:

Dominion: You don't need particularly high Dominion, because you can Blood Sacrifice, and you are not making use of an immortal pretender. Nor are your units particularly vulnerable to having bad morale. Nor will you be using a (non-commander) bless strategy. Oriopatias are good, but they are far from the best, and are capital-only.

Order. No more needs to be said.

Production/Sloth: Sloth is easy to take, because you will have skellyspam armies, because your archers and sacreds don't take many resources, and because you need the points. The gold hit hurts a lot, but if you have any extra points, (you probably won't) spend them on --

Growth/Death: Growth helps significantly with your blood hunting, and it lends itself to more strategies than Death. You can be defensive with Growth, and outlast brightly-burning bless nations. It's also a huge boon for your income elegantly combined with Order, and keeps you much safer from some deadly random events that you might otherwise be pummeled with with your Misfortune scales.

Heat/Cold: Heat is good with Blood, because most demons like it. It's also good because Neifelheim can give you a ton of trouble. Abysia will give you trouble regardless. The income hit is brutal, but you really have to get the points from somewhere, and this is usually it. You can safely go with Cold, as well, because your skeletons can usually keep Neifel giants at bay, and have much more trouble with Abysians. It's pretty much a preference. All other things being equal, balance this according to whether C'tis, Neifelheim, or Abysia is in the game... because C'tis can easily out-skellyspam you in warm climes due to their lower Encumbrance.

Luck/Misfortune: Misfortune is synergistic with Order AND the Enaries' Fortune Telling, so it's in your best interest to take -2. In Ascendant I took Luck-1 which was very nice and all, getting some good boosts in gold, but more importantly, not getting any bad events in my capital or random attacks. If you're not unlucky early on with Misfortune though, you can power through it handily. And 120 points is a hell of a lot.

Magic is a toss-up. You can safely take Drain-2 if you find yourself needing the points, because Sauromatia has what is quite possibly the best Death magic in the game (second only to C'tis in pure strength but with better combinations), allowing you to forge Skull Mentors. With the help of some Dwarven Hammers (yay for Gorgon Earth diversity), you should be making 2 per turn, blowing all your death gems on them as soon as you can. This is important and drastically powerful because it gives you the equivalent of 3 mage/forts worth of research, every turn, for 14 death gems with no upkeep. If you take any Magic scales whatsoever, however, you will probably be ahead of any other nation in EA in research. But 120 points is a hell of a lot.

Which brings us to RESEARCH:

I always research Enchantment 3 first off with Sauromatia. Raise Skeletons will allow you to defend against basically anything in early game that your archers cannot. The sheer stopping and overwhelming power of 5 longdead skeletons per caster per turn is the true definition of relentless. With that safely in hand, you can be free to get Thaumaturgy-1 for Communions, and then Construction 4 for items.

Evocation is an important school for Sauromatia; Shadow Blast is devastating when used properly. Enaries are accurate Shadow Blasters with Eagle Eyes, Communion, Eye of the Void, and a Spell Focus, all of which you will have very quickly and easily (When you can maneuver them to battles). Nether Darts can be powerful using this forumla as well. Storm of Thorns is real pain to fight against; imagine how nice it would be in your arsenal instead! It's one of the best things your N2 Warrior Sorceresses can be doing.

Alteration is another mainstay of Sauromatia. Between the immensely useful and cheap Alteration 1 school, and the Soul Vortex and Darkness ride of the Witch Kings, there lies... SWARM.

Swarm will hold your opponents down for your Androphag archers. Swarm will kill poorly-placed enemy commanders. Swarm will harry and kill 95% of assassins. Swarm will hold enemies back from their fortification's bottleneck during fort storming. Swarm will terrify and confuse your enemies, make them waste valuable rounds of archery, and in general make them a very miserable and frustrated enemy. You can easily mass 10 N1 casters, all of your mages have it, for a vast metaswarm that the opposing army just - can't - get - past.

When using Swarm, it's best to have your archers set to fire against anything except Closest, because otherwise the dragonflies will die in droves, and their little screams will haunt your dreams for weeks.

Thaumaturgy-2 is necessary for remote site searching. You are going to be using a LOT of gems. Conjuration-3 is eventually worth it simply for Summon Earthpower on your Gorgon.

You can successfully compete for artifacts with a Magic scale, and Sauromatia should be spending almost all their free gold on independent mages for magic diversity, which Construction-6 boosts tremendously.

Without magic diversity, Sauromatia is much, much weaker. Air alone will get you Wind Guide and Arrow Fend for the BEST ARCHERS IN THE GAME. I took A4 on my Gorgon in Peccary, and have not regretted it, because it is the key to Air boosters.

A single Fire-2 caster with your archers makes them into a magical missile juggernaut. It will also allow you access to Fire Resistance items and spells if you're going to face Abysia. So already we have ***POISONOUS FLAMING ARROWS OF ACCURACY***

Earth is essential, if only for Dwarven Hammers, which you NEED to allay your ravenous gem expenditure. Earth has some of the most useful and powerful battlefield spells in my opinion, along with some major globals and rituals. And items. Earth for President.

Finally, a W2 mage gives you access to W4 with Robes of the Sea and Water Bracelets; otherwise you are stuck at W2 with only the Water Bracelets.

EARLY ENDGAME AND OTHER STRATEGIES:

Blood and Death, oh my. Hit the enemy capitals hard with Blood and Death. Rain of Toads can completely shut down enemy capitals by turn 40. It takes that long because you have to empower a Witch King to get to B3 in order to build Armor of Thorns for the rest of your Blood-random Witch Kings.

The more Blood you use to summon, the better your upkeep and the more powerful your armies. Imps are actually nice, solid units, and dropping them on top of enemy PD is one of the best remote summons in the game for the research needed, though it is expensive in Blood Slaves and booster items. But honestly, what else are you going to do with near-mindless virgins?

One efficient tactic you can use very early is to summon Dark Servants and equip them with a Bane Venom Charm, then send them to enemy capitals. They can also be used to damage large armies if you sneak into their path.

There are so many and varied tactics you can use with a good degree of success with Sauromatia, that unless you truly make up your mind and put most of the resources of your nation toward one or two key strategies, you can be overwhelmed and spill your seed uselessly on the field of battle. This is a VERY REAL danger and disadvantage, as you are not the best at any one thing. You have to find combos... concentrate on a bright pinpoint of tactical options and you will be much the better for it.

In conclusion, this incaration of Sauromatia is the most powerful and fun nation setup I have ever used in Dominions 3.

Sauromatia

Dominion 5

Order 3
Sloth 3
Heat/Cold 2
Growth 1
Misfortune 2
Magic 1

Gazebo the Gorgon: E10, N4, A4

It may be worth noting that this pretender build has exactly 0 points left over.

Last edited by Renojustin; July 13th, 2009 at 07:33 PM..
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Old July 21st, 2008, 07:24 AM
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Very nice and complete guide Reno, you put on me the need to try Sauromantia better, so my respects.

(But now I understand what you have against repairing poison arrows' mechanic - you just love them the way they are )

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Old July 21st, 2008, 07:27 AM

Renojustin Renojustin is offline
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Damn straight! Yet they aren't overpowered by any means. Note that I listed at least five common methods with which to nullify them.

I just think it's important to showcase some weaknesses along with the strengths of nations so that a user doesn't get blindsided in a multiplayer game. There's a lot of effort and time that go into them, and I wouldn't want someone to get hurt by following my guide from something I omitted!
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Old July 21st, 2008, 07:31 AM
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Thank you. Though in Ascendant I still think that the mistake of Tien Chi player was mostly responsible for your outstanding success. After all, by midgame he should be able see that your expansion allows you to take required VPs much earlier than he could - unless he would help others to slow you down. And who do you call "well-skilled players"? Tien Chi? But he was your ally. Abysia? Possibly, but he had much weaker resources. Caelum? Kailasa? R'lyeh? I don't think so, especially in the latter case - he bragged too much and was beaten by everyone else who he tried to fight...
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Old July 21st, 2008, 07:38 AM
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Eheh I know my friend - but it wasn't the overpower, it was just the not-cogency of their mechanic to disappoint Sombre, me, and others. Maybe it really should be compensated in a thematic way by giving them, who knows, a better precision, a better protection value someway... Seeing KO's comment in that thread makes me think it's very possible the mechanic will be fixed someday, so maybe we should start thinking about a compensation, if he will be so kind to accept our suggestions?

Thanks again for this guide. It is surely very complete and showing some non-obvious interesting pro tactics that are exactly what I love to see. Good luck for Peccary too
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Old July 21st, 2008, 08:29 AM

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Are giants really a good counter to poison arrows? I can see that giant militia might be ok, but then they'll rout for sure due to the constant wounding and morale checks. Better quality giants will die quite quickly to the vast amount of accumulated poison and will almost certainly cost more than the archers.

I have the same doubts about troops with regen. Unless they have extremely high hp or regen percentage there is no way they'll be regenerating enough to counter all the poison they'll be hit with. They are definitely better against poison than units without regen, but I don't really see that they're a counter.

Undead, poison immune troops, archers etc do all work pretty well, though archers of course can have the usual problem of decoys - this applies to the androphag archers too so that's fair enough.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 08:34 AM

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Default Re: The New Sauromatia

I have poured fire into Neifel Giants, to basically no effect. I have poured fire into Abysian Bright Ones, to basically no effect. They both tend to just walk right through poison bow fire in my experience. Remember this is EA and there are some really nasty, high-hp giants and other units out there that will simply outregenerate or ignore the best you can do. I could see you severely hurting, say, Sidhe Lords or other low-hp commanders, but I think even concentrated fire just isn't enough to significantly punish regenerating troops worth the name.

In the case of the giant militia... you're definitely going to hurt some militia, but it may or may not take a prohibitively long time just against the PD to effect. By the time the Weak Poison stacking really starts to take hold, they're often on top of your front lines and it's possible you could be raining down some pretty bad mojo on your own troops.

And that's just militia. If for some reason they use non-regenerating giants against you just for a laugh, well, you'd almost be better off just throwing Amazons and skeletons at them, because everything that goes for the milita goes twice for the real units.
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Old July 21st, 2008, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Wrana said:R'lyeh? I don't think so, especially in the latter case - he bragged too much and was beaten by everyone else who he tried to fight...
I take offense at that. The bragging was mostly roleplaying (although I was a bit overconfident about the Mind Lords), and, well, err, I suppose I might be able to partly attribute my sucking at wars to the Aboleths' inability to enter land, but it's partly my fault.

Also, great guide, Reno!
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Old July 21st, 2008, 02:05 PM
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And I also agree that Androphag bows shouldn't poison those whom they don't wound. That's for the record.
To Darkwind: Considering offense - you are free to do it, of course, but in the case in question it looked positively sick. Though I see that such can be quite true to spirit of Aboleths... But that's just my point of view on many things D&D-related.
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Old July 22nd, 2008, 12:49 AM

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Default Re: The New Sauromatia

Do androphag archers poison even with a shield hit?
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