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Old April 8th, 2009, 08:08 PM

P3D P3D is offline
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Default EA Agartha guide

EA Agartha Guide

The is a guide written some times ago (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=30686). I got some inspiration by the recent discussions on MA Agartha to play them, and write another guide (even with my lack of MP experience).

Overall: you average troops sucks. They hit the broadside of the barn with difficulty, do not deal much damage, even a few stars won’t help them much. You have giant sacreds (recruitable everywhere) suffering from the same problems, but they can be get pretty decent with the adequate bless. Your one decent national summon is Conj 7 in CBM. So I am advocating a bless to go with the troops and your recruitable thugs. Even if their weapons selection looks suboptimal in most cases.

My pick is an Imprisoned Forge Lord for F4E9N4 with T2P0H3G3L3M1 (from Baalz’ MA guide) with Dom4, or add S4/B4 and take like O1S0H3D1L1M1 Dominion 3 to pay for it. You would not have resources to buy more than 4-5 Ancient Ones in most castles, recruitable H3 priests help you to push/maintain dominion.
Your mages can throw all the Earth buffs and evocations to help them. Magic access is limited to Earth, Fire, Water and Death, so choose Pretender accordingly, and make an effort to diversify.
Your other problem is single eye, bad precision and coldblooded units.

So look at the troops offered. All the troops are NNE, so you can mass them if you want with no regards to supply, but honestly, you won’t unless in special circumstances. All your units have siege bonus - recruit a few turns of Wet Ones and you will take any fortresses in a few turns. With their bucklers they are very vulnerable to archer fire, too. They are also amphibious, so you can venture into the seas, And have Darkvision. The NNE attribute is also great to mass inside fortresses against sieges.

Pale One militia, 7g2r: not even good as chaff due to the morale of 8 and 7 attack/defense.
Wet one, 9g2r: slightly better stats.
Wet one (sea castles only), 9g5r?: sharkskin armor for prot 9, makes a somewhat more useful underwater chaff
Pale ones: They come in four flavors, they make up your starting army and PD. They are great for chaff, though, with 18HP and a MR of 12. With size 3 they are also less affected by Area attack spells/weapons.
Pale One, 9g4r: No armor, spear+buckler, Attack of 8, good only for chaff and sieges. With spear they deal 16 damage.
Pale One Warrior, 10g11r: you will recruit this one mostly, due to their mapmove of 2 Protection body 11, head 2. They can at least soak up damage from indies and get in a hit or two. The bucker IMO does not help much.
Pale One Warrior, 10g19r: 15 body and 12 head protection, cost the same amount of resources as an Ancient One troop, but their main disadvantage is the 1 mapmove. The protection is at least effective against the slings and short bows of EA.
Cavern Guard, 13g22r: 21HP, 15/12 protection, 12 morale, 23 damage. OTOH, they have the same attack of 8, and they cost IMO too much resources. Also Mapmove 1.
Troglodyte, 50g1r: The main reason why EA Agartha can survive. Size 4 trample that can be massed if one has the gold for it. In moderate numbers they will take out most indie provinces. Very vulnerable to archers (Prot 7), and will take losses, so arrange for reinforcement. As a note, one must get over a critical mass (10 against indies) to avoid fatigue. Their main disadvantage is the MR of 8, 14 morale OTOH is great for tramplers.
Ancient Stone Hurler, 35g, 1/11r: have 2 boulders to throw to a distance of 6, in CBM AFAIK it is is an AoE attack. Have no other weapons (damage 18 with fists) or adequate protection (3 or 11) so 35g is on the expensive side for what is Agartha’s equivalent of a Javelin Light infantry. They are Sacred, but no bless can make them useful. Also have a higher Siege Bonus, but it won’t matter much.
Ancient One, 40g19r: Pretty weak for a giant sacred, cannot hit or deal enough damage without a bless, Strength 18 with spears deals only 21 damage, with an attack skill of 9.
But. They are recruitable everywhere, and affordable, so you can mass them without much problem. Take the example of the bless mentioned above ( F4E9N4). Your protection is now 15 on the body and 20 on the head (was 11/16), effectively stopping all EA missiles save Poison Bows. 12 morale now 14, MR says 13. Their encumbrance of 5 (+2 in severe heat) is countered by a 4 reinvigoration. Defense of 10 is low, does not worth the bless. With F4 your attack is now an acceptable 11 without any stars, and they will survive to pick a few.
I have to paraphrase Baalz here, ‘But wait, there’s more!’
You have recruitable-everywhere E2 Earth readers can throw on you the following buffs with a mere Earth Boots (Or after summon Earthpower):
Strength Of Giants (Ench 3, E3): Now you deal 25 damage (27 with Blood bless), enough to punch through the armor of any giant troops over what they would regenerate.
Legions of Steel (Const 1, E3): With +4 protection you are now at 19/24, with a very small encumbrance.
At this time your opponents are fatigued after a Curse of Stones (Alt 3, E3, 3E gems), their armor destroyed by Destruction (Alt 4, E3) or Rust Mist (Evoc 2, E2W1). This won’t affect magical armor of most thugs and SCs, though, against them use Weapons of Sharpness (Const 7, E4) which can be cast by the E2 Earth readers with one booster and Earthpower.
Now take this army and buffs below water. No one has stronger underwater army (well, you have, with the Seal Guards). And they each worth 8 human-sized soldiers in siege. That means you can storm smaller forts the turn you take the province.

Seal Guard, 55g37r: your capital-only sacred troop. IMHO one of the best underwater units. 1/12 move means they are slow strategically , but not on the battlefield. Your protection is one higher than the Ancient Lords. With the bless, your attack is 14 with an obsidian glaive that makes 30 damage, which is on the same level as the largest giant troops – and magical against ethereal units/thugs/SCs. With 0 Production scale, you would be able to recruit 4-6 of them in your capital depending on the surrounding provinces – you want as much as possible.

Leaders:
Pale One Scout, 20g7r: They are amphibious, while still better stealth than indie scouts (+20), so you might even recruit one.
Pale One Commander, 30g19r: they are amphibious, but as you can ferry troops underwater with your mages if necessary, no reason to recruit them
Troglodyte Lord: Would be a good trampling thug if not for the 8MR that takes a lot to improve. Their overall skills are better than Ancient Lords, so it might worth it if you can make cheap MR items. They have no heads, so no helmet (or the need for one).
Ancient Lord, 60g21r: Sacred commander (Leadership 120). He needs a lot of cheap items to make a good thug, as on its own he is worse in melee than a Seal Guard. But recruitable everywhere, equip them with cheap items (Dwarven hammers): Gold/Charcoal shield, brand sword, Birch boots, fire helm/plate depending on your opponents.
Earth reader, 120g1r: 1E+100%FWED, 4RP, sacred, affordable researcher. With 18HP they make a better self-buffing thug than human priests, just kit them out (brand, boots, elemental resistance items). Cast Summon Earthpower, Fire Shield, Quicken Self, Iron Skin, Invulnerability depending on random picks and boosters.
E2: with boosters (Boots, Blood Stone) and/or Summon Earthpower they free up your oracles from boosting your armies. Blade Wind, Earthquake.
FE: Magma Bolts, Magma Eruption (w. Boots, Stone, Earthpower)
WE: Rust Mist, Fire Ward
ED: Dust-to-Dust, Summon Umbral
They also come with a 40 leadership, as they would buff troops anyways, less need for indie commanders.
Oracles of Subterranean Waters, Fire, Dead, 400g,1r: XE3+110%XE (X is either F,W or D), H3. Expensive capital-only mage-priests. W ones have one higher base attack skill than the rest. Mainly Earth mages, 55% to get a guaranteed lvl2 caster in their chosen path. Also 55% for E4, 5% for X3 or E5. They also have low precision, so would benefit from air mages casting Aim/Wind guide.
Use them mainly to throw Divine Blesses/higher level battle evocations and buffs, or for forging. Earth Readers are cheaper researchers and can do most of the buffs. They are better Thugs/SCs kitted out than the Ancient Lords due to their magic path.
They are also on the old side, quite a few of them have Old Age, especially the Fire ones.

National Summons:
Rhuax Pact: Conj 3, F1E1: 5 Children of Magma for 2 gems, castable by FE Earth Readers. Cheap fire beings with AoE1 Fire Attack, but they are vulnerable to pretty much everything. Bit too late to use against indies. They’d be cheap to be massed, but magical, so even your Oracles cannot command more than 25 of them. This is IMO their main weakness. Consider them chaff, summon them in besieged castles, or on the frontlines preparing for attack/defense.
Barathus Pact, Conj 3 E2: size 4 Earth Elemental for 1 gem. A replacement trampler instead of your trogs that cost no upkeep. Will shrink from strong blows. Also Magical.
Umbral, Conj 6 (7 in CBM) E1D1: Size 4 68HP giant ethereal undead with life-stealing attack. Very strong unit for the price and availability. They, are, however, completely useless against lifeless/undead beings, and needsa lot of research. Gift of Reason gives a great Ethereal thug for 20N gems – great for trampling PD.

Heroes:
Ogon the Earth Blooded: F2E5,H3: a Fire Oracle with an extra reinvigoration
Deepthought the Great Olm: W3E3, with Life Drain and Mind Blast attacks, also blind, but have 12 precision nevertheless. Not really useful as a thug, as they have only 2 hand/2misc slots, no armor, but stealthy for raids. In CBM, it is a multihero.
Olmspawn: multihero in CBM, E1+100%FWED, essentially a free Earth Reader. IIRC also stealthy.

Pretender Design

You have Giant troops, so you can use the standard E9N4 bless. To get use of the Ancient ones, you must take F4. This leaves you with not much point on an Imprisoned pretender, could squeeze in another minor blessing (S4 or B4) mainly for forging reasons.
F9 does not worth it with a single attack and already having magic weapon troops. W9 is an option. Have at least E4 for your sacred mages, E9 improves the protection of your troops immensely. Put cheap armor on your mages so they’d also benefit from it (e.g. Shambler skin Armor). N4 gives regen for the troops. One could afford stronger E/N blesses . Astral helps you, but pick it for other reasons. Death bless helps to inflict afflictions with your mages – but Earthquakes would inflict afflictions on you, too. B4 would help the damage outlay of the Ancient Ones.

Dominion: Your Sacred recruitment is resource-constrained, no need to go over 5 in that regard. You can risk a low-dominion build (Dom 4) but if you are facing several cold nations (*heim, Caelum), You will want to push (or at least conserve) your heat dominion to mitigate the effect of coldbloodedness. You will be using some of your H3 Oracles to preach, in order to keep cold dominions out. You might have to sacrifice something (e.g. S3 instead of S4) to get your dominion up a few candles.

Chassis:
Follow Jazzepi’s suggestion of a Forge Lord for MA Agartha, but imprison him for E9.
Benefits are cheap Robes of Invulnerability, Rings of Wizardry/Bloodstones with appropriate picks. S4 is a better option IMHO.
If you dispense with the forge bonus, other options Great Mother (EN bless), Great Olm (WE), Cyclops (for E10). You can have the F4E9N4 bless with a few Rainbow mages, I like the Druid the most.
The Ancient Oracle is a great SC, but too expensive for a Bless strategy.

Scales:
Order: You can use money, but you can go with a turmoil-Luck strategy. In that case, I’d prefer T1 or 2 instead of 3.
Production: Neutral. S1 might be good for some picked starts, but do not go below, otherwise you could not recruit Seal Guards in any number. You’d benefit from P1 (after building a few temples), but usually you need points from somewhere.
Heat/Cold: H3 as you need the points, and you are cold blooded. Reinvig mitigates the Severe Heat encumbrance. Your troops do not eat, either.
Growth/Death: You don’t need Growth for supplies. You can afford D1, it won’t affect you much, but I won’t go below. Take it if you also have Order. If you take Turmoil, you need either Growth or Production to help with your income.
Luck/Misfortune: If you took Death, you should pick Luck to balance against bad events. You don’t have soothsayers, and your PD is, well, crap. Do not go with Misfortune unless with O3.

Magic: Drain2 instead of M1 would give you points, but would reduce you research speed by 40%. You want to spend your Death gems on things different from Skull Mentors. Lightless Lanterns are Const 6, and you cannot afford to neglect the other magic schools.

Strategy

First, you need to get some troops for expansion. Set taxes to 130% and patrol the first turn. Recruit an Earth Reader, 3 Pale ones and 5 Trogs from the starting 400 golds. Or 8 Trogs and no mage. The 5 trogs would help taking indies (avoid strong ones).
If you have bad scales, one might alchemize your fire and earth gem income for 55g/turn, to get the second expansion party and first Oracle sooner.
I’d prophetize the first Oracle to get H4, it offers +1 penetration bonus over H3, and larger AoE for Banishment. Death ones are the least affected by old age, the Fire ones are the most.
Recruit Seal Guards as your resources allow, do not buy Trogs until you would be ready to send them out (they have 3.3gold maintenance each).
Recruit only Ancient Ones in your castles. Instead of buying a lot of Trogs, keep some gold (as in 1.5-2K) in reserve, so you could buy 30-40 of them in a turn if anyone attacks you.

Castles: Cave Castles (in caves and mountains) are expensive and have low admin, but they autocast Darkness during sieges. Build cheap forts in forest and swamp, Fortified Cities (for the income) in Grassland.

You can build castles underwater, but could recruit only chaff there - and no priests/mages. Put them on Amber Clan provinces or in straits to stop other underwater nations – and provide troops from nearby land forts.

Site search:
Send out oracles manually, to get your Earth income flowing in. They’d also search for Holy sites, giving some Astral income.
You will need to diversify your magic with indies – Jade/Crystal/Garnet amazons, lizardmen, shamans, summons. Hidden in Sand for 75 E gems.

Research:
With M1 and standard research speed, you can get to Evoc-4 and thus Blade Wind in a year. Const-1 for Legions of Steel, Const 2 for Hammer. Then I’d go for Conj-3(or 4) for the Rhuax/Barathus Pact, site search and Summon Earthpower. Thau-2 for site search spells. Alt-2 for Blindness, Alt-4 for buffs.

Your troops with bless are adequate for expansion and early wars. Recruit some indie archers (Flame Arrow, Ench-4 if you have boosters), preferably ones with high precision (Crystal Amazons, Woodsmen, horse archers in CBM) to complement your line troops against lightly armored units. Use Earth buffs to reduce losses. You also benefit from Darkness.
Use Earth Readers, GoR-ed Umbrals and Ancient Lord as thugs, with Oracles buffing them and cast evocations. Even Earth Readers with Crystal shield+booster can cast Soul Vortex.

Last edited by P3D; June 8th, 2009 at 04:45 PM..
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  #2  
Old April 8th, 2009, 08:25 PM

Trumanator Trumanator is offline
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Default Re: EA Agartha guide

One point about the Rhuax pact is that it can be excellent when fighting either Niefel, because of their fire vulnerability, or the heims since the flame attack whacks the whole square, rendering glamour useless.
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Old April 8th, 2009, 09:41 PM

chrispedersen chrispedersen is offline
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Default Re: EA Agartha guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by P3D View Post

Research:
With M1 and standard research speed, you can get to Evoc-4 and thus Blade Wind in a year. Const-1 for Legions of Steel, Const 2 for Hammer. Then I’d go for Conj-3(or 4) for the Rhuax/Barathus Pact, site search and Summon Earthpower. Thau-2 for site search spells. Alt-2 for Blindness, Alt-4 for buffs.

Your troops with bless are adequate for expansion and early wars. Recruit some indie archers (Flame Arrow, Ench-4 if you have boosters), preferably ones with high precision (Crystal Amazons, Woodsmen, horse archers in CBM) to complement your line troops against lightly armored units. Use Earth buffs to reduce losses. You also benefit from Darkness.
Use Earth Readers, GoR-ed Umbrals and Ancient Lord as thugs, with Oracles buffing them and cast evocations. Even Earth Readers with Crystal shield+booster can cast Soul Vortex.
You are missing a whole huge part of the EA agartha strategy.
Fire oracles make fire boosters for fire readers. Water oracles water boosters for water readers.. etc.

Research con4 for the boosters. Use the earth readers for the summon rhuax, or with the boosters, the site searching spells.

N4 helps your claymen and your sacreds regen.
(huh, interesting thought, F8N10 would give you +6 to hit ... and you could finally hit things...
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Old April 8th, 2009, 09:47 PM

Scarlioni Scarlioni is offline
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Default Re: EA Agartha guide

I myself am holding out for a chance to play EA Argatha in MP.
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Old April 8th, 2009, 11:45 PM

P3D P3D is offline
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Default Re: EA Agartha guide

[quote=chrispedersen;684736]
Quote:
Originally Posted by P3D View Post
You are missing a whole huge part of the EA agartha strategy.
Fire oracles make fire boosters for fire readers. Water oracles water boosters for water readers.. etc.

Research con4 for the boosters. Use the earth readers for the summon rhuax, or with the boosters, the site searching spells.

N4 helps your claymen and your sacreds regen.
(huh, interesting thought, F8N10 would give you +6 to hit ... and you could finally hit things...
Earth Boots are not needed for Gnome Lore, Skull Staff (ditto), and Water bracelet (which can be made by a WE Reader, but still necessary). For Flaming Skull you need to empower, for Flame Helmet either empower or RoW+Staff or the rare F3 Oracle+booster (those boosters made by the F4S4+ pretender). I could add a paragraph on forging, though.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 12:27 AM

chrispedersen chrispedersen is offline
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Default Re: EA Agartha guide

I guess I would make the following points:

1. Try a Magic +3. Your mages then go 120 gp for 4 research, to 120 gp for 6. Plus you are sacred.

2. Your earth readers, with an appropriate forger, become fantastically useful.

3. Your Oracles should be used for SC's, and for booster production when your pretender is not.

Early in the game, choose the oracles with death (not the other ones). They have a lower chance of affliction. Use them to get bootstrapped in death and to build your earth boosters.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 06:06 AM
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Default Re: EA Agartha guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trumanator View Post
One point about the Rhuax pact is that it can be excellent when fighting either Niefel, because of their fire vulnerability, or the heims since the flame attack whacks the whole square, rendering glamour useless.
Combustion is nice as well. It sets them on fire which does some decent damage over time while your statues tank the front lines.

Jazzepi
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Old April 9th, 2009, 07:41 AM

Agema Agema is offline
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Default Re: EA Agartha guide

You don't need trogs to expand with your F/E/N bless, basic ancient ones will fight all day and barely die, so will defeat indies comfortably. They just tend to take a little more time doing it than trampling trogs. Your giants will also gain XP quickly, so their weak Att will eventually become respectable (and don't forget the F bless helping out).

You don't need to empower to make F boosters: your pretender can do that. You also don't really need magic scales. You have F and D magic, so can build lightless lanterns and skull mentors.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 01:16 PM

P3D P3D is offline
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Default Re: EA Agartha guide

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Originally Posted by Agema View Post
You don't need trogs to expand with your F/E/N bless, basic ancient ones will fight all day and barely die, so will defeat indies comfortably. They just tend to take a little more time doing it than trampling trogs. Your giants will also gain XP quickly, so their weak Att will eventually become respectable (and don't forget the F bless helping out).

You don't need to empower to make F boosters: your pretender can do that. You also don't really need magic scales. You have F and D magic, so can build lightless lanterns and skull mentors.
Dunno, initially, you don't have resources to buy enough Seal Guards, and Trogs are ideal to fill out the second and third expansion army. Granted, going for Const-1 first would make them immune to almost anything indies have.

The pretender might have other things to do besides making fire boosters to cast Augury.

My problem with no Magic scales is that Skull Mentors are expensive - they cost Death gems which you don't have much initially, and have dozens of better uses later. Shadow Brand, Horror Helmet, Skullface and Bone Armor besides Umbrals. You might not find enough Death sites either. Conj-6 might be a bit far to wait for Lanterns, of course you can rush it. At least that's my opinion.
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Old April 9th, 2009, 02:53 PM

chrispedersen chrispedersen is offline
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Default Re: EA Agartha guide

Quote:
Originally Posted by P3D View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agema View Post
You don't need trogs to expand with your F/E/N bless, basic ancient ones will fight all day and barely die, so will defeat indies comfortably. They just tend to take a little more time doing it than trampling trogs. Your giants will also gain XP quickly, so their weak Att will eventually become respectable (and don't forget the F bless helping out).

You don't need to empower to make F boosters: your pretender can do that. You also don't really need magic scales. You have F and D magic, so can build lightless lanterns and skull mentors.
Dunno, initially, you don't have resources to buy enough Seal Guards, and Trogs are ideal to fill out the second and third expansion army. Granted, going for Const-1 first would make them immune to almost anything indies have.

The pretender might have other things to do besides making fire boosters to cast Augury.

My problem with no Magic scales is that Skull Mentors are expensive - they cost Death gems which you don't have much initially, and have dozens of better uses later. Shadow Brand, Horror Helmet, Skullface and Bone Armor besides Umbrals. You might not find enough Death sites either. Conj-6 might be a bit far to wait for Lanterns, of course you can rush it. At least that's my opinion.

Agree - don't empower, let your pretender forge them.
Agree also that death gems are better put in umbrals
Also make sure to mention you should have an earth reader in the site every turn.

As for Trogs - Use trogs when you are fightin in cold territories. I probably wouldn't bother in cold 1... but in cold3 hellya.

And trogs become quite respectable when you get their protection up.

Since your D Oracles are capital only - you *have* to do something to stay up in the magical research. You could try building castles - but I think slow expansion really precludes that.

My choice of pretenders (CBM) would either be
Phoenix (Awake) F4N4-5A4, F4E4A4, F4S5A4, F4D4A4

Phoenix has a problem with no hands, so no hammers, which means you may wish to boost one higher than normal to make bootstrapping easierr. Exploding phoenixes give you good expansion, good minor blesses, good site searching and fills some gaps you can't otherwise cast A/N/S. FD is good for fireskulls, and are very useful for your Death DOs.

Olm: My choice only if you know you will be starting in or near water. Take N/W to get the free castles. Asleep is probably ok if you are only starting *near*

ForgeLord F4E4(N4|S4) You can increase the skills if you wish. If you are going to face undead (Ermor) Demons (lanka) the ability to crystal matrix, crystal slave, and crystal shields let your H7 communed DO's do insane banish damage might give you a chance.

Last edited by chrispedersen; April 9th, 2009 at 03:19 PM..
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