USMC to replace M249 SAW with M27 IAR

[Suhiir]

USMC begins to replace M249 SAW with M27 IAR (HK 416) starting Nov 2011

Each company in the infantry battalions will receive 28 M27s, one for every SAW gunner and one extra to remain organic to the unit. These companies will also retain six M249s to give commanders more firepower if necessary.
The LAI (LAV) battalion will receive 14 M27s per company and will not retain any M249s.
The Corps plans on buying 4,476 M27s and reducing its number of M249s from 10,000 to approximately 8,000.

Marine Corps Times
Marine Corps Gazette
H&K

[DRG]

Oh goody, there's only about 3 dozen+ units affected......


Got a time frame on this ?? starting Nov 2011>>>>>>> ???


Don

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

Oh goody, there's only about 3 dozen+ units affected......


Got a time frame on this ?? starting Nov 2011>>>>>>> ???


Don

Starting Nov 2011
Probably won't have enough delivered till say July 2012 for it to be Crops wide.

The "fun" never stops!

Probably about same stats as current M16A2 (2) LMG (Weapon #26) with HEK=5 instead of 6.

[DRG]

That weapon is already in the Dutch and Norwegian OOB's. I'll review the rating but it's not a great replacement for the 249

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

That weapon is already in the Dutch and Norwegian OOB's. I'll review the rating but it's not a great replacement for the 249

Sort of depends how one intends to use it.
Every Rifle Platoon has 2 x MMG attached 90% of the time. As an assault weapon it's probably better then the M249, at the very least more portable. As an LMG replacement, yea it lacks.



"But accuracy seems to be the key to the M27's effectiveness, Clark said. The auto rifle is already showing signs that it could to be twice as accurate as the Marine M16A4.

Gunners shooting the M27 have been getting first-round hits on targets beyond 300 meters much more consistently than they have in the past with the M249"

M249 vs M27

[gila]

And the gun is only as good as the the one who wields it.

Suspecting training time to get profcient should be a factor also.

And what is that 1-2 years?

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by gila

And the gun is only as good as the the one who wields it.

Suspecting training time to get profcient should be a factor also.

And what is that 1-2 years?

2 weeks actually.
Week 1 - Weapon familiarization, how to use the sights, how to get into the firing positions (offhand, kneeling, sitting. prone).
Week 2 - Live fire for 4 days then qualification (200/300/500m). About 95% qualify, those that don't get one more chance then they're gone.

[gila]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

2 weeks actually.
Week 1 - Weapon familiarization, how to use the sights, how to get into the firing positions (offhand, kneeling, sitting. prone).
Week 2 - Live fire for 4 days then qualification (200/300/500m). About 95% qualify, those that don't get one more chance then they're gone.

I think you are a bit too optimistic.

Training deals with the red tape training manuals and the ones that have to read those gibbish and train others ect.

Have the Marines decided to go with this or is there bickering on whether the saw M249 is just as good without spending millions more?.

Knowing the slow implemation of new weapons and cutbacks on budgets I'd say 1 year is reasonable for this game at least maybe, just my opinion however

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Starting Nov 2011
Probably won't have enough delivered till say July 2012 for it to be Crops wide.

The "fun" never stops!

Probably about same stats as current M16A2 (2) LMG (Weapon #26) with HEK=5 instead of 6.

Yes M27 IAR (2) ( I'm aiming to change the way (2) weapons are named in all OOB's to make finding singles and doubles easier ) would be HEK=5. However, becasue it's being used as a SAW/LMG I'm considering applying the same accuracy forumula that other LMG's get which would bring the accuracy to 19 which closer approximates the firearms function

Full Auto and closed bolt eh ? Interesting ( might be after a long firefight....) at 28 RPM in temperatures over 100 F they really are counting on accuracy. Every SAW gunner is going to need sniper training...

Don

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by gila

I think you are a bit too optimistic.

Training deals with the red tape training manuals and the ones that have to read those gibbish and train others ect.

Have the Marines decided to go with this or is there bickering on whether the saw M249 is just as good without spending millions more?.

Knowing the slow implemation of new weapons and cutbacks on budgets I'd say 1 year is reasonable for this game at least maybe, just my opinion however

They've been in use (1 test battalion per division) for a couple years now. In Nov 2011 they began Corps-wide replacement of M249's at squad level with them.

Yes, overall training takes a couple years, mostly learning how what you've been taught in the classroom applies in real life. But basic marksmanship isn't that hard really. Just need good coaches on the firing line watching what the trainees are doing and correcting mistakes and advising them how to improve their performance.
Contrary to the usual "Drill Instructor in your face" routine of USMC Boot Camp the DI's actually make themselves scarce during rifle range training and the marksmanship coaches are "friendly" and "soft spoken".
Getting your "Toilet Seat" (minimum required marksmanship qualification badge) is pretty easy. The "Iron Cross" (sharpshooter badge) takes some skill/talent, but about 30-40% manage it. The crossed rifles (or pistols for handguns) for expert qualification takes (obviously) some innate talent, but still about 20% manage. Beyond that you get into snipers and competition shooting.

And just to beat my own drum, I was mid to high expert every year but one (had a hell of a cold) I was in, and tied the range record one (extremely good) year. I was a marksmanship coach, and range SNCO so I "think" I may have a pretty good idea how this stuff works on the practical application vs theoretical side.